[ home / rules / faq / search ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / lgbt / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta ] [ wiki / shop / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]

/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
Name
Options
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password(For file deletion.)

Not reporting is bourgeois


File: 1752347977024.jpg (204.01 KB, 685x1463, socdem.jpg)

 

People will seemingly do anything to not engage in analysis of structures of class, labor, and political economy a la basic Marxism.

Paradoxically, some of the most radical-sounding theory ends up being politically inert. If your revolution happens in desire or discourse, then there's no need to organize tenants, unions, or strikes. No need to analyze class composition. It's post-materialist. The ruling class is perfectly happy for people to spend their time deciphering Deleuze or burning effigies of "the State" in their heads rather than challenging property relations.

Since the 1960s, theory has absorbed countercultural and psychoanalytic influences that treat rationalism itself as suspect. Much of this comes from academia. Their material interests don't align with the working class, so abstract theory "feels" radical without risking much. Another part of this is a sort of learned helplessness and nihilism, in that sense modern theory serves the same function as fascism in that is provides an outlet by giving the "aesthetic" of radicalism without the substance.

TLDR:The most "radical" thing you can do today is to simply disregard the vast majority of Western Marxism/Post-Marxism i.e. Freudo-Marxism, Deleuzean neo-Kantianism, Hegelian revivals through Lukács and Adorno, postmodernism, poststructuralism, and any approach that elevates """discourse""" as the primary object of analysis, and instead return to a straightforward, rigorous conjunctural class and geopolitical analysis grounded in orthodox Marxist categories and methodology.

>>2384987
>If your revolution happens in desire or discourse
brother read how you write
you are part of the problem
and here is the thing, all those people that seem to live rent free in your head? feel free to ignore them; lenin didn't care about what college professors thought, the few time he engaged with their articles was to make fun of them

the fact that you made an angry thread about this or that you use the word discourse multiple times tells me you are exactly that type of people yourself. focus and grind, or something

File: 1752350364980.png (5.64 KB, 500x250, Oekaki.png)

Sage

Ok

theres only one communism idiot

>>2385059
It's me. I'm the communism.

>>2384987
truthnuke

marxism is a critique of political economy, not political economy

this is the truth, almost a truthlear nuke

western marxism is the über-fetishization of the critique to a level of abstraction that coming back down on Earth is impossible
western marxism belongs to the mystics on the banks of the Ganges, not in worker's movements

>>2385120
leftcucks have merely critiqued the political economy in various ways
the point however, is to change it

>>2384987
Interesting, yet you participate in Deleuzian affirmation of new lines of flight by not taking your meds schizo. Interesting….

File: 1752380015449.jpeg (15.62 KB, 360x360, image.jpeg)

>>2385742
>French theory word salad

>>2385744
Status of medication: Nowhere to be found.
Focusing strictly on unions and capitalism instead of examining the substrate of revolutionary action to even resist them in the first place: Ignored
Idealism: Back
You are not a materialist I'm afraid.

>>2385747
where tf did I focus on anything lmao what are you even talking about

>>2385748
Was assuming the zigger in the chat was OP because they seem very very upset in a similar vein to the initial post.

>>2385750
wrong I am the zigga and I am not OP

>>2385752
That's okay Mr. Zigga, I hope you have a wonderful day or evening. You should totally read Anti-Oedipus!

>>2384987

OP im pretty sure despite your inclusion of Lukacs he might actually somewhat agree with you wrt his book the destruction of reason where he systemically lays out how a bunch of european irrationalist philosophy existed to help facilitate imperialism. tmk it even caused a bunch of western academics at the time to get butthurt cuz he pointed out obvious shit like Nietzsche being a glazer for german imperialism.

>>2385755
Th French theorists use language which is too obscure for me to understand unfortunately.

>>2385757
Most Deleuzians are more than happy to read through the book with you zigganon, there are alot of amicable people in the field of schizoanalysis.

>>2385759
Schizoanalysts make me feel anxious :(

>>2385762
:( They're real nice people, I'm sure you could find one outside of academia ( I myself do not have a formal secondary education in continental philosophy ) that way theres a significantly smaller chance of a posh attitude that I know a lot of post-deleuzian / new materialism guys have.


File: 1752386350831.mp4 (1.53 MB, 480x854, v04zS6i.mp4)


File: 1752399046901.jpg (101.34 KB, 1000x500, 4a9p6ohmcpo71.jpg)

Main issue with Western Marxism is that it's the domain of University Educated, Middle Income turbo liberals, who's political goal isn't really Marxism or anything to do with the general "working classes" but an implementation of Ultra-liberal social ideals.
A Solarpunk commune filled with arthoes and Tumblr sets all the social values is basically what most Western Leftists want the world to be. It's actually not a negative vision, but it's wholly unrealistic and basically is a rejection of the working classes.
Over the years, something I've really, REALLY come to realize is the vast majority of leftists are incredibly naive and sheltered. They are the children of a ultra-liberal suburban upbringing. I know, this is the case, because I was the same, until my life hit a massive derailing that led me to have to deal with Lumpens for years on end with no safety net. That was where I became street smart and finally saw through and lost a lot of the naive high-trust upbringing I had.
Every time I speak to leftists, even here on leftypol, I cannot help but notice the sheer naivete that most lefties hold. I remember when interacting as a liason between leftist org and XR, lefties I knew IRL would be aghast by the fact I talked about how rampant drug usage was among politicians and they thought I was a conspiracy theorist despite I knew this as fact due to working with people who worked at a particular establishment frequented by politicians and elites. When it comes to discussions about say, Welfare fraud, or ethnic ingroup identity politics, or the fact most Homeless are there by choice, most Leftists refuse to acknowledge this reality despite it being backed up even by data from Left leaning research groups. The amount of times I've been banned from leftypol, for actually CRITIQUING minority idpol backed up with links and studies, is fucking unreal at this point. Even the moderators here have no fucking clue and want to suppress discussion on issues that actually have very real world effects and consequences and are of primary concern to THE WORKING CLASS.
Has any Western leftist even asked a Normie Baz what they want from life? What sort of society they want to live in? What things they enjoy? It doesn't really seem like it.
You can see the middle income aspect of the left, where in every leftist org I was in, football/rugby etc was called "Sportsball" and people looked down on caring about sport… the number 1 past time of the working classes.
The Western left is a fucking joke, they genuinely think that everyone wants to live in pic related. Instead of pragmatism it's LIBERAL idealism and a rejection of the working classes.

>>2385887
As someone who works at a homeless shelter I can tell you that they definitely are not there 'by choice', and you're a prick.

>>2385887
This is just ad homimen, yeah?

>>2385888
Yes, a whole fucking swath are there by choice. The state throws absolutely fucktonnes at homeless people, they have top priority in every single respect for support. Most are just personality disordered, drug addicted and chose living a completely degenerate fucked up life than actually even having the stability that welfare gives them. I lived in a city that had an excess of public housing, yet there were crackhead homeless everywhere, despite they all technically had houses they could be at because they prefer a life of being a Lumpen antisocial dickhead.
The vast majority of ACTUAL homeless are invisible homeless, people who cope that they are "Car living!", "mobile living" because they are too ashamed to be seen as homeless, they work normal jobs, they wash at gyms and most of these people are pretty short term homeless with the average only being a few months.
Majority of long term homeless, are homeless by choice. That is the reality.
>>2385890
No, it's the fucking reality. Leftists refuse even basic structural fucking reforms to stop Lumpen behaviour or scamming, because they can't possibly accept that most people at the lower end of society live in a dog eat dog/ingroup mindset and have no problem harassing, defrauding and stealing their way to a life. Here in the UK, we are hitting the point where welfare claimants are outstripping people paying into the system, because of how easy welfare is to defraud. Does the left have a problem with fucking Landlords driving around in taxpayer funded luxury cars they get on Welfare? Nope. In fact, investigating fraud is bad and classism! This despite this is going to lead to the entire welfare system collapsing, giving path to Thatcherite style dimantling, but the left is too naive/shitbrained to actually accept you need to enforce standards, because the Western left is a Tumblr, empathy politics brained middle income utopian retardation.
China is my fucking flag on this site, because the CPC does not stand for any of this shit and has cracked down on all this stupid naivete.
https://www.caixinglobal.com/2021-10-19/full-text-xi-jinpings-speech-on-boosting-common-prosperity-101788302.html
Of course, a speech like this, if it was from anyone else but Xi, would have 99% of the left crying about how he is a right wing conservative reactionary.

>>2385887
you are right
Easy to be all loving and woke when you do not have to deal with the lumpen 24/7. Once you have to, you realise what fucking ghouls they are.

>>2385897
Literally had to live in a illegally rented out public house split into multiple occupancy home. Everything in my name had to be registered to extended family address. My landlord literally was earning 2600 from the state every month, had brand new car paid for by the state, most of the day he just raked in cash from me and my roommates, smoked crack and weed and played video games while constantly guilt tripping us to buy him food and stuff because he gave us lower than market rate rent.
I worked full time 11 hours a day 8-7 and only pulled 1800 a month pre tax.
He was just one of many people pulling this scam, and he was one of the least sociopathic ones I met, tonnes of completely unhinghed sociopathic lumpens I met over those years.
Of course, got out eventually, reported them to the Government and… nothing happens, because the Government just does not give a fuck about enforcement at all. The fact these fucks are stealing from funds for severely disabled people doesn't phase them or much of the left at all.
The left doesn't realize that a whole strata of society has no fucking shame. I have one of these lumpen fucks hang out of the front of my apartment building, wearing brand new arcteryx harassing every young woman that walks buy to buy him food, from the supermarket across from me, and the amount of times I've seen in that supermarket, him with $100 in groceries (ice creams, booze, frozen food, showing HE HAS A FUCKING HOUSE WITH A FREEZER), and a distraut 19 year old girl or whatever, is more than I can count on my hands.

>>2385896
>>2385897
All you have to do is to prove that all these ethnic and other minorities are overwhelmlengly bourgeoisie and lumpen

I do know that even chechens living in rusha are somehow claiming asylum and getting euro money while still being in rusha somehow. At least that what ive been told by this one armenian trucker

>>2385897
I literally work at a homeless shelter but ok. If you think that you need be 'deserving poor' to get help then you're not a socialist, you're a liberal conservative. And should go kill yourself. Yes a lot of homeless people have massive drug problems but so what? Should they just go die then? Have you ever tried to get off heroin or crack? Especially when you live in a shelter where it's everywhere?

>>2385909
People are given shelter and food in prisons too, though

>>2385909
Moralism

>>2385911
There's no space in the prisons, people just get left on the street

>>2385913
Yeah it's definitely not moralism to cry about homeless being 'degenerate' like that freak

Yeah, everyone here is moralist

>>2385909
I think the state should stop funding lazy drug addeled fuckheads and frankly, throw them into reeducation camps like China and the USSR does and did.
Why should working class be funding the lifestyle of antisocial lumpens who make life worse for everyone around them because they don't care about themselves, let alone others? Why should we sacrifice the safety and comfort of the working classes to even go out in their own communities for the privilege of crack and fentheads?
Having a Cluster B disorder is automatic right to a cash handout from the working class to buy drugs and shit on sidewalks it seems.

>disregard Freud and Adorno
Brainlet take only people who never read either spout.

>>2385934
That's crazy that you claim to be a Marxist yet still act like it's the fault of individuals that the system is broken.

>>2385934
>le state
State isnt a monolyth

>>2385934
Disabilty pays fuck all in UK though


>>2385934
Blame corrupt state workers (which is all of them btw). So blame le state itself

File: 1752405404757.jpg (170.91 KB, 1280x960, Shayang_outside.JPG)

>>2385947
He did the exact opposite btw, he threw all drug addicts and insane people out of the clinics and asylums onto the street. I propose the opposite, they should be forced into reeducation camps, like was the case in the USSR and is the case in China.
>>2385939
It's not their fault the system is broken, but I don't think the left should play along and let individuals fuck shit up for everyone else as well. What I want is a structural reform, laojiao everywhere, laojiao as far as the eye can see.
Rajneeshpuram is proof enough that trying to welfare Homeless people into integration even with utopian level benefits and support is a completely lost cause.
>>2385942
Not if you game the system, you can easily be earning 40k+ through welfare if you know how to play it which scammers absolutely do. My landlord was getting social housing, bills support, 2600 in bennies on top of that + didn't have to pay insurance and stuff like that, meanwhile I had 1800 before tax from working 11 hours a day. Read r/BenefitsAdviceUK, it's not long until you find posts where the advice is to not get a job or to stop their partner from getting a job, because working anything below like 20 quid an hour is less than what many there get in PIP and JSA.

>>2385962
>Rajneeshpuram is proof enough that trying to welfare Homeless people into integration even with utopian level benefits and support is a completely lost cause.


maybe we can try 'moderately humane' first before we declare it's a lost cause?

>>2385962
>laojiao
Is it when state sodomizes corrupt public servants and state workers who are corrupt?

>>2384987
>the superstructure determines the base
Talk about basic Marxism.

In any case, your ilk "attacks" the symptoms of imperial core countries, instead of admitting that Marxism in the West moved to the academia exactly because it had no place among the labor aristocracy.

In other words, you could burn all the spooky Freud and Adorno texts, revolution still won't happen in the imperial core. Meanwhile, in comfy socialist China, Xi is recommending people to read Marcuse! THE HORROR!!!

>>2384987
Western communist deserve struggle sessions but 3rd world nationalism is not some kind of solution to the problems international movement is facing.

>>2385934
Blaming homeless immigrants as parasites instead of calling out ruling class as the real parasites leeching on the work of most of the world proletariat. Maybe you should go back to /pol/.

>>2386126
>revolution still won't happen in the imperial core
It's not happening anywhere else either and doesn't look like it will anytime soon. Also by now most semi-periphery countries have developed a labour aristocracy.

>>2385897
t.sheltered

>>2386246
Communists need to step up with their ideology game so they can offer proletariat new alternatives instead of this stalinist cultist bullshit.

>>2386263
I know for a fact I am way less sheltered than 95% of you assholes here

>>2386304
What are you fucking gay?

>>2386304
lol no

>>2386304
Do we actually have to fight over who is less sheltered and has experienced more adversity? Having bad experiences is a bad thing


Sing along with the common people
Sing along and it might just get you through
Laugh along with the common people
Laugh along, even though they're laughing at you
And the stupid things that you do
Because you think that poor is cool

Fuck western "marxism" (third worldism)

>>2385120
its both. "critique" should be read as a corrective expansion. its not an overturning of political economy but situating it in its proper context

>>2386246
>It's not happening anywhere else either
Well duh, the CIA has been putting down revolutions in the third world since ww2

>>2386126
>the superstructure determines the base
sometimes it does? base only determines superstructure in the last instance

>>2386236
The only people who call third world nationalists "communist" are western radlibs. Not even 10% call themselves that.

>>2384987
>deciphering Deleuze or burning effigies of "the State" in their heads rather than challenging property relations
the notion of de-territorialization and re-territorialization are explicitly about property: like how you can visit the same city again after capitalists demolish everything that is familiar to you, making an uncanny feeling due to all the newly built profitable real estate. The city becomes an unknowable place full of dark towers that you will never be allowed inside of. Consider what happened before/during/after Hurricane Katrina, where the anti-flood infrastructure was allowed to collapse before any disaster had even happened. Those black people definitely noticed the gentrification shifts in public/private territory, but did they see the subtle shifts in the conspiracy of the Army Corps of Engineers?

>>2387108
A huge part of Deleuze and Guattari's work, especially Anti-Oedipus is deeply embedded in the context of the New Left and its reaction to postwar institutions like psychiatry, the nuclear family, etc.

One of the biggest problems of the new left was reorienting the left from class to identity and from materialist analysis to poetic metaphysics. This sort of vitalist mysticism depoliticizes theory and turns it into symbolic disruption and identity performance.

>>2385120
its both i.e. sublation

>>2385896
OK so you're just shilling for more "left-wing" reforms within bourgeois electoralism

Revolution will happen when critical mass of people read and properly undersrtand deleuze, prove me wrong

>>2387480
Deleuze also has a habit of pushing people into a right wing schizo pipeline like Russell Brand and Nick Land

>>2387480
to properly understand deleuze you must read lenin which to properly understand you must read marx which of course is reliant on an understanding of hegel

>>2387480
nickland
NICKLAND
NICKFUCKINGLAND

>>2387995
yeah but after reading Marx and Lenin, you will most probably not feel the need to read French fraud Deleuzeuuhhh

>>2388705
some people just have to learn the hard way

>>2387995
dont ever tell people to understand hegel, you can get the gist from other sources

>>2387995
most of lenin is just regurgitated marx at best and you absolutely dont need hegel for marx

>>2389765
you can understand hegel from marx but of you want to understand marx you do have to know hegels method because it is also marxs

Value form is dialectical chud

>>2389876
No it isn't. Marx provided it in Hegel's format but it isn't necessary

>>2384987
The limpdickness of modern Marxism makes me sure that fascism will return

>>2391319
Probably will end up winning as well

>>2391319
So trve, if only Marxism were strong and virile and upheld based things like the nation and masculinity instead of catering to weakness and degenerates

>>2391319
fascism happened as a reaction to a strong labor movement so you make no sense lol

>>2384987
>2384987
Are you disregarding majority of modern continental philosophy? It that it, bro?

>>2391344
like marx didnt disregard all of philosophy lmfao

>>2385887
t. ailist

>>2391344
Any sane person should.

>>2391344
>Are you disregarding majority of modern continental philosophy? It that it, bro?
no, also analytic philosophy too

>>2385909
>Especially when you live in a shelter where it's everywhere?
So just kick out the people selling crack? They're the ones bringing others down

>>2391848
>analytic philosophy
western marxism is basically synonymous with interpreting marx through analytic philosophy, which is essentially stripping out everything meaningful

>>2392087
<western marxism is basically synonymous with interpreting marx through analytic philosophy, which is essentially stripping out everything meaningful
thats analytic marxism. I respect some analytic marxists like Gerald Cohen but IMO its a very misguided school of thought because they abandoned value theory and tried to do neoclassical economics with marx

I know! Western marxists now only talk about imperialism and ethnicities. Where did the class and political economy go?

>>2392940
>only talk about imperialism and ethnicities
huh? is this not the same case with maotards?

Explain western Marxism

>>2384987
You don't hate Western Marxism, you just hate Westerners.

>>2384987
In practice your proposed solution remains as post-materialist as those losers. You correctly identify the need for trade and tenant unions, for strikes and for general physical action, but your emphatic conclusion is that one needs to change their style of analysis - not their actions, just their analysis.
You will no longer explicitly care about discourse, but discourse remains what you'll do: defend Cuba, Russia, China, etc, on the internet, and spew out class analysis in text form. You will have a slightly more materialist aesthetic, appear to be dealing with concrete rather than philosophical questions, but you will still just be arguing on the internet - as secure in your position that you're the only real revolutionary (supporting AES states and REAL class analysis) as the other side is secure that they're the only real revolutionary (imagining radically different ways of being) while all you're proposing is social democracy with stalin banners.


Unique IPs: 47

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / rules / faq / search ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / lgbt / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta ] [ wiki / shop / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]