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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Not reporting is bourgeois


File: 1752531586794.jpg (166.35 KB, 800x1080, mao-zedong-371992942.jpg)

 

The more i read about him the more retarded he seems. He's basically just a shittier stalin that failed at everything he tried to do after unifying china.

don't worry, that's what Deng was there to remedy

nah he was the single most accomplished and influential bourgeois revolutionary in history

Yeah, he was pretty retarded to be honest, plenty of people tried to reason with him but it was useless, frankly only idiots declared themselves maoist

If you know about immanent critique then you should know it doesn't take a genious to poke holes in a self-contradictory system. He got shit moving and now China is surpassing the US on all fronts.

>>2388268
>He got shit moving
No, deng xiaoping did.

>>2388275
Either way, he helped kinda.

>>2388268
It's was Deng that saved China

>>2388238
>failed at everything he tried to do
>after unifying china.
doesn't sound that retarded to me specially considering he also defeated the americans in korea and the french in vietnam

Maos writings was what made me a leftcom.

>>2388238
First of all, the "millions of deaths" were calculated by pretending China suddenly have the expected death rate (then-world class healthcare) of US and Europe, then subtracting from the real death rate of Mao's China during the famine to maximize the "excess death rate", useful only for US propaganda and nothing else. Also, no one is looking at 'excess mortality' in the US and condemning them for killing millions of people. For example, US life expectancy dropped recently. If you did the same type of 'estimates' the drop in life expectancy is millions of people killed by the US economic and political system. But no one does that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao%27s_Great_Famine#Reception

>Ó Gráda wrote that the "10 per thousand" normal mortality rate adopted by Dikötter is "implausibly low" and used to maximise his death count. Ó Gráda posited: "The crude death rate in China in the wake of the revolution was probably about 25 per thousand. It is highly unlikely that the Communists could have reduced it within less than a decade to the implausibly low 10 per thousand adopted here (p. 331). Had they done so, they would have 'saved' over 30 million lives in the interim! One can hardly have it both ways."


The same shoddy logic infects pretty much every other calculation of "victims of Chinese communism", they all rely on this type of nonsensical reasoning.

However, it brings us to an interesting thought that would horrify those US mouthpieces: if Mao is responsible for tens of millions of deaths with his policies, the same logic would have him also simultaneously responsible for hundreds of millions of lives saved which would have otherwise been cut short in regular times. India's Amartya Sen's (nobel prize winner in economics) famous quote compares China with India:

>Sen estimated: "Despite the gigantic size of excess mortality in the Chinese famine, the extra mortality in India from regular deprivation in normal times vastly overshadows the former…India seems to manage to fill its cupboard with more skeletons every eight years than China put there in its years of shame."


We compare China with post-colonial India because they both were abundant in people and land, and both started utterly destitute at a similar time. China sped past India in all qualities of life indicators long before Deng, but we don't blame Nehru and other Indian leaders of his time for being "worse than Mao" for not adopting the same socialist policies China did.

Notably in 1981, the World Bank contrasted China’s life expectancy of 64 years to India’s 51 years. Chinese citizens, the report stated, were better fed than their Indian counterparts. Moreover, China provided nearly universal health care and its citizens, including women, enjoyed higher rates of primary education.
https://documents1.worldbank.org/curated/en/892681468215689422/pdf/multi0page.pdf

During his leadership, China experienced “the most rapid sustained increase in life expectancy of any population in documented global history,” according to a Stanford study.
https://ngmiller.people.stanford.edu/publications/historical-health-improvement/exploration-chinas-mortality-decline-under-mao

Yes, the GLF and cultural revolution were bad but Mao led china out of a period of colonization, civil war, and there were far more famines before his time. Post-xinhai revolution China had been having famines every few years. The 1927 famine killed as many as 6 million. There were significant famines in 1929, 1939, and 1942. Mao found himself in the aftermath of a deadly civil war, the large-scale massacres by the Japanese army, the warlord melee that took place in China from 1911 to 1949, and a U.S. embargo that started in 1948. After another famine, the historically cyclical famines finally ended in the early 1960s.

He also turned China into a nuclear power and laid the industrial and social foundations for Deng. For instance, he swept away old superstitions and banned arranged marriages, footbinding, child bethrohal and concubage, and highly encouraged women to particpate in the economy. By the 1970s, China under Mao produced 3x more steel than India, 2x more coal production, 2.5x the cement production, had way more women in the workforce, had higher literacy rates (70% vs 35%), lower infant moretality rate (40 per 100 vs 120 per 1000 for India). By the late 1970s, China had annual electricity generation of 450 Twh compared to 85 Twh for India. All this made it possible for Deng to attract FDI and for the FDI to stay.

Deng basically sums it up well, Mao did "70 per cent right and 30 per cent wrong." And China's Marxist Leninism BTFO India's Fabian socialism.

>>2388275
Well, Mao wanted to develop the productive forces and accept FDI like Deng. He wasn't opposed to having markets. he wanted to use markets and outside investment to develop china and pull its people out of poverty. Just like Deng. Mao believed that when western countries saw a massive country like china, with its heap and abundant labor base of millions of well prepared and educated workers (thanks to the CPC's efforts to combat illiteracy), they would jump to the opportunity to invest and make fortunes. however, it didn't happen because the West and the US supported the Chiang Kai Shek's Kuomintang as the legitimate government of China, and the US set a trade embargo on China beginning in 1948. later the down the line, it was Mao in the 1970s who sat with Nixon to normalize US-China relations which opened the path for Deng's reform.

the cultural revolution was the greatest thing he did. socialism in china went downfall after that.

>>2388358
the cultural revolution went extremely out of hand. By the time Mao critiqued his wife the Red Guards were literally shooting at each other.

>>2388366
better that than turning into a rightcommunist who rubs shoulders with america

>>2388386
Oh you mean like… Mao?

>>2388300
Yeah sure he did that single handedly and deserves all the credit

there is nothing wrong with Mao Zedong Thought but he really did make dumb decisions especially on foreign policy.

>>2388268
This is cope. They are literally rotting from the inside out

>>2388358
The Cultural Revolution was among the shittiest events in 5000 years of Chinese history. Just a total disaster from beginning to end.

>ussr
Dead and gone.
>china
Assrapin the US

>>2388366
> By the time Mao critiqued his wife the Red Guards were literally shooting at each other.
???? The fuck they were supposed to do with the rightists? not shoot them????


>>2388395
Praise Deng

>>2388394
you literally know nothing about it

>>2388395
Not at all they are an empire of straw

>>2388396
>rightists
more like which student group liked mangoes the most

>>2388399
no u
Good luck finding a single Chinese person defending that mess.

I like how official CPC documentaries praise Stalin and Mao but also admit their faults, which is how any communist should see previous systems. It's a breath of fresh air from the diehard worshippers of dead generations.

mao saved china from being infiltrated and subverted by the kmt and pro-kmt remnants in the mainland

besides Nixon, He also met Ford as well

>>2388405
Well you can be smart about it and call them 70% good 30% bad or be like Cornman and inadvertently cause a split

>>2388417
Mao literally absorbed left wing elements of the KMT into his united front.

>>2388386
What are you talking about? Mistakes like encouraging decentralized foundries and promoting student led gangs who destroyed and killed as they pleased weren't rightist, they were the opposite. Establishing diplomatic ties with the US opened the door for Deng but allying with US foreign policy, and breaking with the USSR before that, were things Mao deserves criticism for.

>>2388391
just like he gets all the credit for running china and even overseas maoist movements

>>2388433
Mao limited the reach of the cultural revolution so it wouldn't reduce his power thats his real crime

If Stalin lived into his 80s like Mao got to the USSR would still exist.

>>2388238
"Why wasn't Mao an anti-communist, like me? Is he stupid?"

>>2388418
So this is the power of maoism.

File: 1752550733307-0.jpg (84.34 KB, 1151x710, 1705283509823526.jpg)

File: 1752550733307-1.jpg (46.4 KB, 620x372, 175028590285252.jpg)



>>2388358
>>2388394
>the cultural revolution
>>2388366
>went extremely out of hand
yeah sure but it was still good. better purge all the glowies all at once and then stop instead of drag it out like the soviets did. i would think similar things must happen in certain very reactionary societies if revolution occurred there as well
>>2388238
>read about him
like what? why read about him instead of reading what he wrote?

i dont get the mao/stalin/engels hate there is really no difference between them and marx/lenin except writing style. marx and lenin were giga autists who always made their theory abstract to be applicable in all situations where the others often used concrete examples.

it seems to me the people who complain about mao are dogmatists who cant help but try to apply concrete particular examples universally and then get mad when it doesn't work

Mao won 2 wars more than you ever have

nah lol mao is easily one of the most impressive leaders of the 20th century and even with his admittedly loose grasp on marxism he grasped the fundamentals more firmly than a lot of people who study it their whole lives never do. a lot of mistakes & ambiguous decisions but the guys reputation as a historical giant is fully well deserved

>>2388394
the cultural revolution was extremely based and every single country should have one.

>>2388340
By using this "deaths not prevented compared to a baseline" logic, African govts are the most evil in existence, killing 10x more than Nazi Germany

>>2388275
>>2388281
Historylet take, Deng's reforms would not have been possible without the industrialization that had already taken place under Mao. Even the GLF did a lot to help the reforms succeed, the TVEs were the most productive sector of the rural economy during the reform era

>>2388238
You are a Khrushchevite Social Fascist Revisionist who must put on the Dunce Cap and undergo a Struggle Session for failing to accept the Immortal Science of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism, the Highest Stage of Marxism, and its advanced Dialectical Materialist Theoretical developments of New Democracy, Mass Line, Law of Contradiction, Cultural Revolution, Protracted Peoples War (PPW), and the Historically Progressive nature of Global Nuclear War, which will allow for a successful World Maoist PPW to create a Global USSR that will place the Workers and Oppressed Nations of the World on the Shining Path to Communism, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🚀☢️!

Why is China glazed for industrialising, meanwhile Taiwan and South Korean achievements are not recognized. Taiwan and South Korea industrialized much faster than China. They achieved faster rapid increase in life expectancy and reduction in infant mortality than China, but they don't get any praise for that. And they didn't have to go through a famine and cultural revolution bullshit to achieve it. South Korea already became first world 20 years ago, meanwhile China is still at $12,000 GDP per capita.

>>2388655
Based Take Comrade LeftCom, all Reactionary elements of the Superstructure will be purged in the Worldwide Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution (ie. Religion will be Illegal, Churches/Mosques/Synagogues/Temples/Pagodas will be bulldozed, Reactionary clothing will be banned, including all kinds of Religious Clothing such as Hijabs, Burkhas, Turbans, Yemukhas/Kippahs,, Priest Collars/Robes, Monk/Nun dresses, etc., Capitalist Business Suits, Patriarchal Women’s Dresses, Skirts, etc., and all Women are forced to have extremely short hair (Pixie cut or shorter), and Dresses/Skirts/Makeup are banned in order to liberate Women from the chains of Bourgeois Femininity/Domesticity and flatten the Patriarchal/Sexist/Misogynistic Gender Binary, with everyone forced to wear Mao Suits, etc.) in the future Global USSR that will be established after the inevitable World War III between the U$ and PRC escalates into a Global Nuclear War that will destroy the entire Global Capitalist-Imperialist System, thus allowing for a World Maoist PPW to create a Global USSR that will place the Workers and Oppressed Nations of the World on the Shining Path to Communism, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🚀☢️!

File: 1752560847333.png (724.16 KB, 723x493, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2388691
truthnuke
general park chung hee and his five year plans saved south korea

>>2388393
we all are

>>2388691
half of all elderly people in south Korea live in poverty

>>2388691
Because Taiwan and South Korea suck balls and China is awesome 😎👍

>>2388403
damn i wish china-anon was here to kick your ass

>>2388238
Oh look more historic nihilism.

>>2388655
I and a Dentist fan but I agree, at the very least America, Germany, and Japan should have absolutley one. Maybe the UK and India aswell.

>>2388910
Damn I think I had a stroke while writing that.

>>2388691
South korea lagged behind the north until the 70s and only surpassed them due too insane amounts of support from the US. Likewise for Taiwan. China came from a much worse position and had to do it on it's own.

>>2388910
im an anti-dentite personally

>>2388340
All anti-communism is a mental disorder worthy of institutional incarceration as this post proves

>>2388691
We don't compare China with Korea, Taiwan, or even Japan because it would be like comparing a fish tank with an ocean, by absolute numbers China under Mao saved hundreds of Koreas and dozens of Japans worth of human lifespans.

Think about the scale problem. Taiwan, South Korea, they got to whatever they are relative to US per capita GDP (60-70%) within a few generations. Taiwan had 20 million people. South Korea had 40-45 million people. To move that number of people and get them all working in high wage industrial or service jobs in urban areas is possible within a few generations. It's just physically impossible to achieve that on the scale that China's been operating on with 1.4 billion people. But if you look at the urban migration that they've done, it is completely unprecedented in the history of humanity. For many years they were urbanizing at the rate of 20 million people a year added to the urban population. I forget the precise calculation, but in terms of housing and urban infrastructure, they were building the equivalent of New York plus Philadelphia plus San Francisco every single year for 20 years. No one has ever done anything like this before. The lesson of this is that there's an arithmetic problem there. Even if you do this on this unprecedented scale, and do it faster and bigger than anyone has done it before, if you're trying to move 1.4 billion people into an income of United States-level, it just takes a really, really long time. Taiwans entire population is equivalent to Shanghai more or less. If you take Shanghai it’s gdp per capita, it is close to Taiwan. Heck cities like Shenzhen and Shanghai IN China are equivalent in most metrics.

So we compare China with post-colonial India because they both were abundant in people and land, and both started utterly destitute at a similar time, as they had the same scale problem. However, China actually was in a worse position than India, as in the late 1940s, India possessed a more extensive railway and road infrastructure largely due to the colonial legacy left by the British. On the other hand, China's infrastracture was devastated by decades of Chinese Civil War as well as the Japanese invasion. Chongqing withstood more bombs than all of India saw bullets. The PRC was also sanctioned by two super powers (USA and USSR) for two decades and still came out of it with much higher industrial and social metrics than India in the 1970s and now China's gdp is 3x larger than the total gdp of Africa and India combined.

These days China owns their banks and they're not a lapdog for American imperialists. They don't have American military bases in their countries and Yankees raping their women. America has no power over China to make them sign some a self harming Plaza Accord type deal. The US also pushed japan to weaken MITI (Ministry of International Trade and Industry) which signicantly weakened Japans industrial policy and control over foreign currency allocation and capital inflows. So now, 70% of Sony's shares are held by non-Japanese investors. In a poll, only 11% of Japanese say they would fight for their country, the lowest in the world South Korea's largest corporation Samsung is actually majority foreign owned. South Korea has a higher suicide rate than china, little satisfaction with their government and it's a vassel to america's interests.

>>2388698
The only man who could have saved South Korea was Kim Il Sung

Or Stalin

>>2388238
If Mao was a shittier Stalin was Deng a smarter Khruschev?

>>2388691
>meanwhile Taiwan and South Korean achievements are not recognized.
because they're tiny and were favored by the west. there, bitch

>>2389070
Nah its more like Deng was a Bukharin who managed not to get shot during the purges and too power after Stalin's death. Mao thought about purging Deng multiple times similar to how Stalin did Bukharin but in the end decided against it.

>>2389039
honestly this is the best response. good effort post

>>2389110
could bukharin and the rightists surviving the purges and taking power in the 1950s saved the union. Or would they have destroyed it.

>>2389067
but park chung hee was south koreas stalin though

>>2388691
didn't they get a bunch of free investment. thats kinda different then doing it on your own

>>2388300
Mao's career up until like 1955 is super based and impressive. Everything after that is a train wreck that goes from bad to worse.

>>2388593
>selfie hand on the right

>>2389792
In south koreas case it was a mixture of american and japanese aid.
In japans case it was american aid.

>>2389867
and in taiwans case it was us aid. Unsure if japan aided taiwan tho

>>2388340
>no one is looking at 'excess mortality' in the US and condemning them for killing millions of people.
Listen to Death Panel podcast and read Health Communism
>Yes, the GLF and cultural revolution were bad
(Maoist Red Guard schoolgirls with eye lasers meme)


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