The more i read about him the more retarded he seems. He's basically just a shittier stalin that failed at everything he tried to do after unifying china.
>>2388238First of all, the "millions of deaths" were calculated by pretending China suddenly have the expected death rate (then-world class healthcare) of US and Europe, then subtracting from the real death rate of Mao's China during the famine to maximize the "excess death rate", useful only for US propaganda and nothing else. Also, no one is looking at 'excess mortality' in the US and condemning them for killing millions of people. For example, US life expectancy dropped recently. If you did the same type of 'estimates' the drop in life expectancy is millions of people killed by the US economic and political system. But no one does that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao%27s_Great_Famine#Reception
>Ó Gráda wrote that the "10 per thousand" normal mortality rate adopted by Dikötter is "implausibly low" and used to maximise his death count. Ó Gráda posited: "The crude death rate in China in the wake of the revolution was probably about 25 per thousand. It is highly unlikely that the Communists could have reduced it within less than a decade to the implausibly low 10 per thousand adopted here (p. 331). Had they done so, they would have 'saved' over 30 million lives in the interim! One can hardly have it both ways."The same shoddy logic infects pretty much every other calculation of "victims of Chinese communism", they all rely on this type of nonsensical reasoning.
However, it brings us to an interesting thought that would horrify those US mouthpieces: if Mao is responsible for tens of millions of deaths with his policies, the same logic would have him also simultaneously responsible for hundreds of millions of lives saved which would have otherwise been cut short in regular times. India's Amartya Sen's (nobel prize winner in economics) famous quote compares China with India:
>Sen estimated: "Despite the gigantic size of excess mortality in the Chinese famine, the extra mortality in India from regular deprivation in normal times vastly overshadows the former…India seems to manage to fill its cupboard with more skeletons every eight years than China put there in its years of shame."We compare China with post-colonial India because they both were abundant in people and land, and both started utterly destitute at a similar time. China sped past India in all qualities of life indicators long before Deng, but we don't blame Nehru and other Indian leaders of his time for being "worse than Mao" for not adopting the same socialist policies China did.
Notably in 1981, the World Bank contrasted China’s life expectancy of 64 years to India’s 51 years. Chinese citizens, the report stated, were better fed than their Indian counterparts. Moreover, China provided nearly universal health care and its citizens, including women, enjoyed higher rates of primary education.
https://documents1.worldbank.org/curated/en/892681468215689422/pdf/multi0page.pdfDuring his leadership, China experienced “the most rapid sustained increase in life expectancy of any population in documented global history,” according to a Stanford study.
https://ngmiller.people.stanford.edu/publications/historical-health-improvement/exploration-chinas-mortality-decline-under-maoYes, the GLF and cultural revolution were bad but Mao led china out of a period of colonization, civil war, and there were far more famines before his time. Post-xinhai revolution China had been having famines every few years. The 1927 famine killed as many as 6 million. There were significant famines in 1929, 1939, and 1942. Mao found himself in the aftermath of a deadly civil war, the large-scale massacres by the Japanese army, the warlord melee that took place in China from 1911 to 1949, and a U.S. embargo that started in 1948. After another famine, the historically cyclical famines finally ended in the early 1960s.
He also turned China into a nuclear power and laid the industrial and social foundations for Deng. For instance, he swept away old superstitions and banned arranged marriages, footbinding, child bethrohal and concubage, and highly encouraged women to particpate in the economy. By the 1970s, China under Mao produced 3x more steel than India, 2x more coal production, 2.5x the cement production, had way more women in the workforce, had higher literacy rates (70% vs 35%), lower infant moretality rate (40 per 100 vs 120 per 1000 for India). By the late 1970s, China had annual electricity generation of 450 Twh compared to 85 Twh for India. All this made it possible for Deng to attract FDI and for the FDI to stay.
Deng basically sums it up well, Mao did "70 per cent right and 30 per cent wrong." And China's Marxist Leninism BTFO India's Fabian socialism.
>>2388399no u
Good luck finding a single Chinese person defending that mess.
>>2388358>>2388394>the cultural revolution >>2388366>went extremely out of handyeah sure but it was still good. better purge all the glowies all at once and then stop instead of drag it out like the soviets did. i would think similar things must happen in certain very reactionary societies if revolution occurred there as well
>>2388238>read about himlike what? why read about him instead of reading what he wrote?
i dont get the mao/stalin/engels hate there is really no difference between them and marx/lenin except writing style. marx and lenin were giga autists who always made their theory abstract to be applicable in all situations where the others often used concrete examples.
it seems to me the people who complain about mao are dogmatists who cant help but try to apply concrete particular examples universally and then get mad when it doesn't work
>>2388655Based Take Comrade LeftCom, all Reactionary elements of the Superstructure will be purged in the Worldwide Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution (ie. Religion will be Illegal, Churches/Mosques/Synagogues/Temples/Pagodas will be bulldozed, Reactionary clothing will be banned, including all kinds of Religious Clothing such as Hijabs, Burkhas, Turbans, Yemukhas/Kippahs,, Priest Collars/Robes, Monk/Nun dresses, etc., Capitalist Business Suits, Patriarchal Women’s Dresses, Skirts, etc., and all Women are forced to have extremely short hair (Pixie cut or shorter), and Dresses/Skirts/Makeup are banned in order to liberate Women from the chains of Bourgeois Femininity/Domesticity and flatten the Patriarchal/Sexist/Misogynistic Gender Binary, with everyone forced to wear Mao Suits, etc.) in the future Global USSR that will be established after the inevitable World War III between the U$ and PRC escalates into a Global Nuclear War that will destroy the entire Global Capitalist-Imperialist System, thus allowing for a World Maoist PPW to create a Global USSR that will place the Workers and Oppressed Nations of the World on the Shining Path to Communism, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🚀☢️!
>>2388691truthnuke
general park chung hee and his five year plans saved south korea
>>2388691We don't compare China with Korea, Taiwan, or even Japan because it would be like comparing a fish tank with an ocean, by absolute numbers China under Mao saved hundreds of Koreas and dozens of Japans worth of human lifespans.
Think about the scale problem. Taiwan, South Korea, they got to whatever they are relative to US per capita GDP (60-70%) within a few generations. Taiwan had 20 million people. South Korea had 40-45 million people. To move that number of people and get them all working in high wage industrial or service jobs in urban areas is possible within a few generations. It's just physically impossible to achieve that on the scale that China's been operating on with 1.4 billion people. But if you look at the urban migration that they've done, it is completely unprecedented in the history of humanity. For many years they were urbanizing at the rate of 20 million people a year added to the urban population. I forget the precise calculation, but in terms of housing and urban infrastructure, they were building the equivalent of New York plus Philadelphia plus San Francisco every single year for 20 years. No one has ever done anything like this before. The lesson of this is that there's an arithmetic problem there. Even if you do this on this unprecedented scale, and do it faster and bigger than anyone has done it before, if you're trying to move 1.4 billion people into an income of United States-level, it just takes a really, really long time. Taiwans entire population is equivalent to Shanghai more or less. If you take Shanghai it’s gdp per capita, it is close to Taiwan. Heck cities like Shenzhen and Shanghai IN China are equivalent in most metrics.
So we compare China with post-colonial India because they both were abundant in people and land, and both started utterly destitute at a similar time, as they had the same scale problem. However, China actually was in a worse position than India, as in the late 1940s, India possessed a more extensive railway and road infrastructure largely due to the colonial legacy left by the British. On the other hand, China's infrastracture was devastated by decades of Chinese Civil War as well as the Japanese invasion. Chongqing withstood more bombs than all of India saw bullets. The PRC was also sanctioned by two super powers (USA and USSR) for two decades and still came out of it with much higher industrial and social metrics than India in the 1970s and now China's gdp is 3x larger than the total gdp of Africa and India combined.
These days China owns their banks and they're not a lapdog for American imperialists. They don't have American military bases in their countries and Yankees raping their women. America has no power over China to make them sign some a self harming Plaza Accord type deal. The US also pushed japan to weaken MITI (Ministry of International Trade and Industry) which signicantly weakened Japans industrial policy and control over foreign currency allocation and capital inflows. So now, 70% of Sony's shares are held by non-Japanese investors. In a poll, only 11% of Japanese say they would fight for their country, the lowest in the world South Korea's largest corporation Samsung is actually majority foreign owned. South Korea has a higher suicide rate than china, little satisfaction with their government and it's a vassel to america's interests.
>>2388698The only man who could have saved South Korea was Kim Il Sung
Or Stalin
>>2389792In south koreas case it was a mixture of american and japanese aid.
In japans case it was american aid.
>>2388340>no one is looking at 'excess mortality' in the US and condemning them for killing millions of people. Listen to Death Panel podcast and read Health Communism
>Yes, the GLF and cultural revolution were bad (Maoist Red Guard schoolgirls with eye lasers meme)
>>2388238Not this individualism nonsense.
Comrade Mao had far less importance and power than is mistakenly attributed to him. Mao was a good man but not a great man who do not exist.
>>2388358didn't the cultural revolution target not just capitalist roaders and bourgeoisie but also random people people educated in STEM fields who were contributing massively to the PRC? Like the very same people who helped China get its first atomic weapons were targeted by the GPCR. So it seems to me that it was at least partially retarded, counterproductive, and a circular firing squad. Some people always want to defend purges as getting rid of reactionaries but it's very obvious when a shotgun is being used instead of tweezers to remove lice.
And just like the purges of the 1930s didn't stop revisionism from eventually taking hold, the GPCR didn't stop Deng. It is very easy for defenders of these purges to double down and say no, actually they didn't go far enough. But the question becomes in what regard? Perhaps they didn't go far enough
in the regard that they actually failed to target the bourgeoisie, and perhaps they went too far
in the regard that they falsely targeted a lot of communists?
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