/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

We know that Katyn was done by the Nazis. You're preaching to the choir.
The only issue I have is Goebells never admitted to Katyn. Instead he was sad that German bullets were found there.

Good post. Here's another thread similar in nature about the so called occupation of Baltics >>2288225

No retard the soviets did katyn and it was a good thing

ahem

Katyn was the greatest accomplishment of German history

>>2393074
Hitler liquidated the Austrian fascist regime, Polish fascist regime, and Ukrainian fascist regime…. holy anti-fascism….

>>2393080
the true authentic revolutionary

Except the Katyn isn't proof of that concept that it happened during the time period here.

I always think it's interesting that poles will bring up Katyn, but I never see them talk about the Ukrainian nationalists who did much worse

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia

>>2393134
They did, though? They've passed a law about it. Zelensky has uttered "but I didn't know about Volhynia", lmao, just like Israel said the same in regards to Ukrainian nationalists killing Jews when Russians asked Israeli envoy about Israel's support of Ukraine

>>2393134
>but I never see them talk about the Ukrainian nationalists who did much worse
Nearly half their war movies are about it

>>2393134
I mean this is ww2, executing a bunch of officers and cops ranks pretty low in terms of atrocity

what turns on whether or not the ussr committed katyn?

>>2393547
The Soviet narrative that the M-R Pact did not cooperate with Germany to antagonize Poland, since the Poles didn't declare war on the Soviets, would crumble since even if the Polish state essentially let the Red Army march in they were still massacred by the NKVD. Thus the Soviets would indeed be said to have took advantage of Poland being gutted by Nazi Germany for their own conquest, rather than only marching in after the Polish state collapsed to prevent further Nazi encroachment on the remaining Polish territory.

>>2392800
That's not really hard proof that the Soviet Union wasn't responsible. Yeah, the Nazi Katyn Commission was shoddy, but the Burdenko report being allowed as evidence doesn't mean a whole lot, since the Nuremberg trials were a tribunal that involved the Soviet Union, so the others had to nod along at this minor evidence that was also kind of shoddy.

>it didn't happen because russians said so!
hmmm very compelling evidence

>>2393564
Seems the whole denial is only about playing nice about Polish nationalist's feefees. USSR taking advantage of Poland's weakness to increase worker's power and kill a bunch of fascists is fine.
In hindsight they should have gone even farther.

>>2393498
>>2393440
>>2393491
The point is that it's not very prudent geopolitically as it doesn't reinforce anti Russian/anti soviet narratives and might even make one look at Ukrainian nationalists with a raised eyebrow, therefore you'll never see poles arguing about it or bringing it up when discussing WW2/russia/Ukraine online. But they'll bring up Katyn any chance they get

Honestly I don't care who did it. It wouldn't change my opinion on the SU either way.

From Nurnberg Trials' papers

https://istmat.org/files/uploads/65075/garf_r-7021.114.12_dokumenty_i_plan_mestnosti.pdf
Katyn (or rather, Kozyi Gory) wasn't even walled off in 1940;
There was a tourist/relaxation spot with a tent camp in the vicinity in 1940;
"NKVD Dacha" was actually a pioneer camp building used by kids (funny how Nazis could only think that "such a rich castle" was for the use of NKVD in USSR);
Forest was really small and young in 1940, and also, it appears that Nazis have planted trees and bushes over the course of 1941-42 to hide their victims' graves;

>>2393863
This. If the Nazis did it then they did it as part of their effort to exterminate the Poles as a nation and therefore bad. If the Soviets did it it was part of their efforts to liquidate the Polish bourgeoisie and aristocracy and therefore good. Simple as.

>>2392800
The urge to "disprove" Katyn is victimhood obsessed Christian nonsense. Even if the Nazis did it, I still don't see why any Communist should care.
>Soviets MURDERED thousands of aristocrats, landlords, porkies, nationalists and reactionaries!
Like yes, and?

>>2393134
>Reactoids care more about ~10,000 dead aristocrats than 100,000 proles and peasants
Not surprising

>>2400403
>The urge to "disprove" Katyn is victimhood obsessed Christian nonsense. Even if the Nazis did it, I still don't see why any Communist should care.
>>Soviets MURDERED thousands of aristocrats, landlords, porkies, nationalists and reactionaries!
>Like yes, and?
Let's get rid of this ultra nonsense. States have a right to exist insofar as they create an avenue for the self-determination of a people. That's how internation relations and law works, generally. Members of a ruling class can be reeducated, there is no need to exterminate them. The Red Army spared the lives of captured German generals in Stalingrad. All executions of leaders of Axis countries were done on the basis of actual legal procedures, charging them with war crimes and such. There might have been excesses or real trials against some Polish generals on the basis of crimes they committed against Soviet POWs in the Polish-Soviet War, but nothing indicates that the Soviet Union followed a program of eradicating the Polish state or people. The Nazis did on the other hand and they were also present in the area at some point in time. What evidence we have, like the German shellcases, even if they are explained away by anti-communist as the NKVD using weapons bought from Germany, should not point to the Soviets being the exclusive perpetrators. Especially when some anti-communists actually admit that there were some killings in the vicinity perpetrated by the Germans, while maintaining the narrative that "Katyn was real". Why should we? It is unclear who were the perpetrators based on the evidence, and we know that Germany had an open plans to destroy the Polish state and the Polish people, while the Soviets didn't have such plans and did no such thing after the war, even giving the much more prosperous East Prussian territories with wide sea access in exchange for the Kresy and handing back a few Polish majority villages (a similar amount of territory for which the interwar Polish state was ready ally with Nazi Germany against Czechoslovakia) near the new Soviet-Polish border, despite being in a position in which they could have easily gotten away with keeping it and slowly assimilating the Poles there.

>>2400559
PhD in yappanomics

>>2400403
Because communists taking on themselves an obvious German warcrime is fucking stupid. What next, are you going to partake in the oppression of Poland in Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, when Soviets in reality weren't oppressing/dividing Poland?

We defend the USSR because anticommunist slander hurts everyone.

>>2400939
I'm just like a Red Army soldier defending the Soviet Union

>>2400559
>Let's get rid of this ultra nonsense. States have a right to exist insofar as they create an avenue for the self-determination of a people. That's how internation relations and law works, generally. Members of a ruling class can be reeducated, there is no need to exterminate them. The Red Army spared the lives of captured German generals in Stalingrad.
<Muh bourgeoisie right
<Millions of proles dead in the bowels of war and poverty, but if you happen to execute the unrepentant ruling class of a country, that's a step too far.
Nah, not on board with this one. Out of everything the USSR is accused of, I'm pretty sure the only people that care for Katyn are anti-communist Poles who already have an axe to grind. Out of all of the ridiculous myths and slanders levied at the USSR, "the anti-reactionary communists executed the reactionary military elite of an establishment that watched the Holocaust happen at their doorstep and in many cases assisted in it" is real down low for me.

>>2393065
using unaltered nazi rhetoric to support socialism shouldn't be tolerated

>>2393564
Even if the USSR did Katyn that's still less bad than the nazis just having all of Poland and doing more holocaust there.