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>>2396272flood detected? post retarded! >>2398049Because the US has most of the nukes, most of the economic control, and is unstable enough to use either of those things.
We hold the world hostage.
>>2398047But the most hilarious thing is that if AOC were consistent, yes she would’ve not had the closeness to the power centers of the Democratic establishment but instead she would’ve had a strong base of support, consistent support who would keep her in power and would rally behind her no matter what until she had more resources at her disposal. Instead she’s just been relegated to a lame sheepdog who’s probably going to lose all the power she’s sold her soul to gain.
One of the more revealing things about politics i learned was that Anthony Weiner interview where he talked about how a couple staffers and bureaucrats are the ones who truly hold the power of the pen, not the elected. And so all she would’ve really needed was cozy up to those staffers and bureaucrats who held real power but instead she got close to an establishment disciplinarian Nancy Pelosi who’s an actual shrewd politician and outmaneuvered and humbled AOC. It’s fucking pathetic.
>>2398069Part of the reason why I'm cautiously optimistic about Zohran not cucking out is that a mayor is beholden to far less party politiking and bureaucracy than a representative, even if the latter is considered a more powerful and prestigious position. There's far less for him to gain by cucking out, whereas AOC made a deal with the devil and came up short because she thought she could leverage her way into actual power to pass progressive reforms. Mamdani meanwhile not only has far less restrictions but he also has immediate access to the masses whom he can mobilize. Of course, consequently he's going to have a lot less leeway to screw up, and if he cucks out that same radicalized base will turn on him pretty quick.
Obviously of course we shouldn't pin our hopes on Mamdani to be Lenin 2.0 or expect some kind of successful revolution out of all this, so we still need to be organizing just as vigorously as before. But his popularity in spite of being a "radical communist" who talks about "seizing the means of production" is a good sign for rising class consciousness and revolutionary mood among the masses and I think people need to appreciate that a little more. At the end of the day Mamdani is just a mascot, it is the toiling masses who shape history and not Great Men.
>>2398081The treatlerite cries and howls as a small fraction of the cruelties his empire regularly bestows upon the third world begins to pop up in his back yard
Get used to it faggot, there’s a lot more where that came from
>>2398014incoming
>alsogreat news websites
>>2398112>>2398109Treats are a bucket you can put anything you dislike in. It's important to third worldists to never,
ever come up with a coherent way of defining it because their arguments rely on conjuring up intense feelings and making gigantic political leaps from it. It's like how rightists talk about "degeneracy". There used to be a theory of "degeneracy" but it's so comical by modern standards and Rightists are so ill-read that the term fell from anything even approaching a meaningful thing to just something to lob at their opponents.
Are treats video games? Well, more and more of the third world are playing those. Televisions? Again, those are arriving in the third world, too. Any form of entertainment? Humans have been entertaining themselves for years, even in the worst conditions imaginable. There are literal children's entertainers in Gaza. For treatlerite discourse to work, they have to never define it and keep it as a constantly moving goalpost, because if you literally just out and out say "well people having televisions makes Socialism impossible" then the conclusion one can draw from looking at the actual stats of the third world is that socialism is rapidly becoming "impossible" there, too.
>>2398134if it's not extreme poverty, then yes it is
>>2398141also this as well
>>2398141I can attest to this. In my area in local elections Republicans are all about constructing solar farms and other green energy because everyone here is for it. The two parties are basically just so more than one person shows up on the ballot.
Very few people are the culture warriors you see on social media. The ones I do see are mostly forced into it due to being transhumanist or something.
>>2398151But even if your motivation is just to kill people, there's still plenty of people to kill even without assigning blame to most Americans. The entirety of the Executive and Judicial highest offices (staffers can be let go), most of the national Legislative branch, ICE officers, police officers, Silicone Valley techbros, billionaires and CEOs in general, a decent portion of active duty military, rightoid pundits like Libsoftiktok and Endwokeness, and so on and so on. We've already got enough people who will be implacably hostile to socialism as is, do we really need to make enemies out of 90% of the American population while we're at it?
Basically we can have fun flensing counterrevolutionaries with sadistic glee while also providing a guaranteed decent standard of living for most Americans all the while dismantling imperialism. In this instance we can have our cake and eat it and execute it for crimes against humanity.
>>2398163Even if all this is true for all legal marijuana production (it's not), do you genuinely think that comes even close to the damage that alcohol does to society??
I drink more than I smoke btw, matter of fact I haven't regularly smoked in years
>>2398217okay?
why is this here?
>>2398228I mean that's the whole game is the reverse psychology to keep us trapped in a Zionist framework
>I think we should give Israel $10 billion<No, I think that is way too much and what they're doing in Gaza is wrong, I think we should give them only $2bWHY DO THEY DESERVE ANY OF MY MONEY?!?!?!?!
>>2398233He's a city mayor hopeful.
At that point you just kinda have to give up on electoralism.
>>2398238Infinite MILITARY gibs, but only Israel and South Korea got economic gibs as far as I'm aware.
Also the Marshall plan too.
>>2398266I WILL MEET YOU IN HELL, AMETHYST REALM
CAN'T COMPETE WITH THE SUPERNATURAL
>>2398297I wasn't disputing zionism in NYC, I was disputing "heart of zionism".
NYC by itself can't decide to send a single dollar of weapons or aid to Israel
The reality is, is that all 'theory' leads to one conclusion: Revolution is a bloody, violent struggle, one wherein those whom lead the masses towards it will almost certainly die by the reactionary forces they battle against. Knowing this, and know the actualized reality of struggle, knowing that you will almost certainly be a martyr in a cause far greater than your own life, it immediately forces the majority to reject and retreat.
It is becoming clear to me that those who advocate for a lack of action, a lack of organizing, a lack of risk or a lack of struggle are indeed counter revolutionary. It does not escape me that those who speak the loudest about theory, about "revolutionary potential", about how "the time for revolution is not now, all we can do is read our books and share our youtube videos", have become the same media class that seeks to redirect our revolutionary energy towards imperialists like AOC. How many of your favorite streamers, speakers, and bluesky shills gave air to her rallies? To her as a legitimate leftist? Let those people stand with her on the gallows as genocide supporters all the same.
>>2398123>Gazans are litteral lumpen homeless, of course their children are treatlerites as they have no mines to do actual productive labor inStarting to think there's some divide in radical politics that mostly based on whether you see the divide being "lumpens are ruining everything" at which point you go fash vs "firsties are ruining everything" at which point you go maoist third worldist.
>>2398124>it is an actual poverty cult, if you have any form of enjoyment in your life and you happen to be from "The First World™" then you may as well be personally raping third worlders, you may as well be adolf hitler, because the poor third worlders are the blessed, and anyone else are demonsThere was someone on here saying that Americans couldn't go socialist because they'd lose treats like "electricity". Like they were literally saying the fact we have fucking streetlights are some horrible treat only made possible from pulling teeth from African children or something.
>>2398141>It's also just the rightoid "humans vs orcs" thing but applied to Americans or the "golden billion" as a whole. The terrible super truthnova is that most people in general are pretty ignorant about the news and politics that's not local and are concerned with the wellbeing of themselves, their families, and maybe their local community before any high minded ideals like internationalism. Of course they're not going to throw their lives away for a revolution when they dont need to, especially when it would put their families at risk. The way you win the majority of people to your side is to fill in the gaps when the central government becomes unwilling or unable to maintain basic infrastructure and food security. It's got nothing to do with Americans being ontologically evilUnironically I think if modern leftists were transported to 1910 you'd see shit like them trying to turn "#LeninSoWhite" into a slogan or claim the Bolsheviks were white supremacists because they weren't doing enough for the Kalmyks. People care about what happens to them, people have self-interest, Marxism doesn't deny that and part of its pitch is that Revolution is in the workers' interests.
I want to take a moment to quote Marx here:
>A house may be large or small; as long as the neighboring houses are likewise small, it satisfies all social requirement for a residence. But let there arise next to the little house a palace, and the little house shrinks to a hut. The little house now makes it clear that its inmate has no social position at all to maintain, or but a very insignificant one; and however high it may shoot up in the course of civilization, if the neighboring palace rises in equal or even in greater measure, the occupant of the relatively little house will always find himself more uncomfortable, more dissatisfied, more cramped within his four walls.
>An appreciable rise in wages presupposes a rapid growth of productive capital. Rapid growth of productive capital calls forth just as rapid a growth of wealth, of luxury, of social needs and social pleasures. Therefore, although the pleasures of the labourer have increased, the social gratification which they afford has fallen in comparison with the increased pleasures of the capitalist, which are inaccessible to the worker, in comparison with the stage of development of society in general. Our wants and pleasures have their origin in society; we therefore measure them in relation to society; we do not measure them in relation to the objects which serve for their gratification. Since they are of a social nature, they are of a relative nature.Fucking that right there just debunks the entire logic of Third Worldism and pisses on it. With Third Worldists its always a fucking competition with absolute zero. If you break a finger, they say "well an African broke a leg", if you live in a fucking cardboard box, they say "Well an Amazonian would kill for a cardboard box!" They view things as this holistic whole, completely unbound by any categorization. When they say "the workers" they imagine every single human being on earth in a room, and they regard the first world worker being trapped in debt and losing most of his wage to a fucking landlord as somehow "talking down to" the third world worker living in some village that an industrial conglomerate poisoned. Marx is saying right here that
even if your conditions improve on a civilizational scale the existence of these horrific class inequalities still builds class antagonism. He's saying it's
relative.Is that fucking clear enough? It's
relative, retards. But Third Worldists make it
absolute. They say the class antagonism brought on by these relative distinctions can't exist because they juxtapose it against something outside the relative context of the workers. Not a single goddamn person in America lives in the conditions of feudal or tribal society, there's no frame of reference for it, they exist in a world in which there are apartment blocks or suburban homes or mansions, but the Third Worldist wants to think you've got a suburban house with modern amenities sitting next to a mud hut, and that the "arrogant" person in the house is complaining about the person in the McMansion a few doors down.
And Libertarians do the same fucking bullshit.Time and again, if you point out all the ways in which our society is declining, is mistreating its people, is just getting worse, you'll hear:
<"Umm acktually, we're living better than Roman Emperors did a thousand years ago!"<"It's not that things are bad, our standards have risen!"They like to say you're spoiled for saying maybe we shouldn't trap people in debt because they got sick, or force them to give up most of their money to landlords. They always want to harken back to the stone age. It's just a million ways to reframe "Well back in my day we walked to school uphill both ways in the snow!!!!" And Third Worldists do the exact same thing!
Who gives a fuck how peasants lived 700 years ago! Why the fuck should people be trapped in debt now, or "grateful" for greedy landlords and slimy health insurance agencies, just because some people they never knew who were long dead had it worse? Why the fuck should current generations be chained to some notion of eternal gratitude to the Capitalist class for "saving us" from some awful life our ancestors we don't know had? Why should modern issues always be juxtaposed with "Well sure, climate change is bad, but at least you're not living in the Irish potato famine!"
And that's the fucking thing, Third Worldists are just inverse Pinkers. It's the exact. Same. Fucking. Logic. But while Pinker is trying to suppress radicalism by massaging you into this notion that things are good and you should just be grateful for what you have, Third Worldists insist you need to be ashamed of what you have. The point of comparison is always the fucking same: poorer countries, countries in the middle of war, the awful, ugly, and dirty past. Both have the same ends though, ultimately, to tell you to shut the fuck up and don't try to do anything.
>>2398334>I didn’t say a specific generation, the fuck are you even talking about.the guy at the top of the conversation did:
>>2398258>explain why fox boomers think socdems are le scary because they are "socialist"?Your answer was to this question
>>2398363I apologize for being amped up, but Jesus Christ, Third Worldists are a poison within the movement itself. For however annoying and stupid and patronizing the libertarian/Steven Pinker argument against Socialism is, it's always some outside force pushing against the movement. You can understand on some rudimentary level that it's simply a desperate attempt to suppress things. Third Worldism is a poison from the inside. It's like a fucking siege, and you've got dudes manning the walls saying "What are we even fighting for? Oh we deserve defeat. Oh the people behind the walls don't deserve protection. Actually I'm so much better a person than the rest of you!" It's sapping morale and encouraging defeatism in a situation in which you want people to get on board and actually fucking fight.
And the retard logic is "prove me wrong" or that it's some sports coach calling you a pussy to push you harder, but that. Doesn't. Work. You tell someone enough times that they're bad, they're awful, that they'll never achieve anything, then they internalize it. They give up. For fuck's sake, imagine a little league coach getting in a bunch of kids faces and screaming that they're pathetic, they're worthless, do you think any of those kids are gonna try? Do you think they're gonna want to spend their summers getting yelled at by some douchebag? If you've got a movement that's small and that needs to build itself, going out of your way to tell people
from within the fucking movement that what they're doing is pointless, that they're disgustingly evil, and that you aren't even gonna make their lives better is only going to make people leave. When they have the fucking option to, they'll go.
And what, you think you'll be able to force them to stay? That when it comes down to Socialism or Fascism, they'll accept your misanthropic worldview because "Fascism bad?" Lemme tell you, when the Fascists are saying "we're going to fix things through dictatorship" and when the loudest socialists are shouting "we want this whole place to burn down" people are gonna go with the Fascists.
All the while, Third Worldists will just sneer because "moral relativism" is blase. They're confident in their ability to twist and contort any counter-argument you make into "I don't care if African kids die" or what have you. We know for a fact, you, me, everybody, that people care about what they can see in front of them actively happening. Even then, there's a bystander effect. Everyone knows its patently fucking absurd for people to willingly risk their lives because they heard their government is doing something evil at the other end of the world. But no one wants to be the one to say "nobody cares" because TWists will do the equivalent of showing you an abused puppy and asking "why do you not care about this"?
>>2398357I think the key is to analyze the current situation and act accordingly. It seems to me that people either over-analyze and then do nothing or act without strategy.
I'm just tired of people basically saying we can't beat capitalism because it supposedly works too well. Try to believe in socialism at least.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2025/07/17/antisemitism-israel-zionism-mental-health/85206011007/==America's mental health field is overrun with antisemitism. It's dangerous. =
<If Zionism is being treated as a mental disorder, how can Jews expect fair treatment? Worse still, this antisemitism is being taught to future clinicians, spreading bias even further.
>Jewish clinicians “with Zionist affiliations” are being blacklisted on social media. An emergency room doctor who runs a Facebook group for Physician Moms removed Jews from the group. A doctor and untenured professor at University of California San Francisco Hospital tweeted that the university should investigate whether a new “Israeli” medical student – known to be a Persian American Jew – committed genocide before coming to USCF. And a professor and the director of counseling at Villanova University taught her students that the “colonized mind” and Zionism are mental illnesses of the frontal lobe alongside fascism, “rape culture” and “genocidal tendencies.”
>This is what the mental health profession has become for the Jewish community – steeped in antisemitism.
>At the Louis D. Brandeis Center for Human Rights Under Law, clients have informed our legal advocates of antisemitic incidents that include a Washington, DC-based therapist who refused to see a Jewish patient who had recently moved to the United States from Israel; a psychologist who was doxxed and harassed online because she is a Jewish Zionist; and a major mental health organization denying a Jewish affinity group because its members were “privileged white supremacists.”
<Antisemitism has escalated since Hamas terrorist attack
>Antisemitism has grown rapidly and become mainstream in recent years. From workplaces to all levels of education, discrimination and vitriol have taken hold in many of our institutions.
>In the health care system, research shows that antisemitism has escalated since the Hamas terrorist attacks of Oct. 7, 2023. Now, 75% of Jewish medical professionals say they have experienced antisemitism at work. No form of hatred is acceptable within our mental health care system – one that is supposedly built on empathy, ethics and compassion.
>The irony is appalling. Jews built much of our psychological and brain science, revolutionizing our understanding of mental processes and developing many of the therapeutic methods used today. Their ranks include Sigmund Freud; child psychoanalyst Melanie Klein; Holocaust survivor Viktor Frankl; Alan Beck, the developer of cognitive therapy; and Albert Ellis, the founder of rational emotive behavior therapy.
>The Brandeis Center recently interviewed dozens of Jewish therapists and doctors, and we found that Jewish and Israeli patients and professionals are being ostracized, harassed and protested simply because of their identity. This is the definition of antisemitism, and we cannot let it stand.
>Those who perpetuated these brazen acts were given minimal (if any) sanctions. And because of the personal nature of the perpetrators’ work, it feels like an even deeper violation.
>What’s even more dangerous is when this xenophobic hatred is put into practice under the guise of therapy, as in the case with the new “Decolonizing Therapy.” Its founder, Dr. Jennifer Mullen, argues that the root of our mental health crisis is separation – “separation from land, our ancestry, community, and our innate joy” – so the goal of this framework is to challenge the psychological impact of colonialism, historical trauma and systemic oppression.
>Therapists use Decolonizing Therapy when working with clients who experience intergenerational trauma or issues related to their cultural identity.
>In practice, however, it promotes antisemitic narratives that stigmatize Jewish patients and providers and refers to Jews as oppressors in therapeutic settings – often on the taxpayers’ dime through programs funded by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.Decolonizing Therapy is dangerous and misleading
>Decolonizing Therapy dangerously and misleadingly identifies Zionism as a root cause of mental illness, despite Zionism’s obvious absence in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), the most comprehensive, internationally accepted manual on the diagnosis and treatment of mental disorders.
>It also equates Zionism – an integral component of Jewish identity for many Jewish Americans, it the core belief that Jews have a right to self-determination in their ancestral homeland, Israel – with colonialism and oppression. This delegitimizes Jewish historical, cultural, ethnic and cultural connections to Israel, denying the Jewish people’s more than 3,000-year history with that land.
>For obvious reasons, numerous experts, including psychologists and professors, agree that Decolonizing Therapy “lacks empirical support and rigorous scientific validation.” Instead it puts “ideology over evidence.”
>By promoting false ethnic stereotypes founded on a binary worldview that casts Jews as oppressors, Decolonizing Therapy misrepresents Jewish identity and history. This ignorance creates hostile environments for Jewish patients and therapists, alienating them, perpetuating harmful stereotypes and ultimately compromising the integrity of mental health care.
>If Zionism is being treated as a mental disorder, how can Jews expect fair treatment? Worse still, this antisemitism is being taught to future clinicians, spreading bias even further.
>In recent years, federal and state lawmakers have resisted taxpayer support for other controversial, polarizing and racially divisive approaches, including what a recent executive order calls “Discriminatory Equity Ideology” – defined as “an ideology that treats individuals as members of preferred or disfavored groups, rather than as individuals, and minimizes agency, merit, and capability in favor of immoral generalizations.” Those states and agencies, including the White House, have ceased to fund other racially divisive ideologies. Why is Decolonizing Therapy any different?
>The proliferation of antisemitism in any space is horrific. But its proliferation in health care – a sacred, professional space brimming with private and sometimes life-threatening information – is especially dangerous. We cannot allow these antisemitic and discriminatory practices and language to cultivate in our mental health spaces.
>We must attack this threat from all sides. The federal government must defund Decolonizing Therapy. Mental health professionals and their patients must hold colleagues and providers accountable for their practices and condemn antisemitism in the health space. As human beings, we must all call out antisemitism wherever we see it. We can only eradicate antisemitism when we all get involved.
>After all, “do no harm” is not a suggestion. We have to stop treating it as such.
<Kenneth L. Marcus is the founder, chairman and chief executive officer of The Louis D. Brandeis Center for Human Rights Under Law and a former assistant secretary for civil rights at the U.S. Department of Education under two administrations. He is the author of "The Definition of Anti-Semitism." >>2398385Yes it's the explicit goal of third worldists.
They think things like food, medicine, and electricity are "treats" that the U.S. would be deprived of. It'd be social murder, at the very least, on a grand scale. They explicitly say that their ideal of Socialism would collapse living standards.
>>2398379I think about the KPD and the Spartacist Uprising.
>While the leaders were still conferring, the masses grew cold and went home Not to say it would have worked but the fact they did basically nothing until it was too late honestly feels like the central problem of the left. In fact, kinda embodies both tendencies since the workers rose but didn't have anything in mind and were waiting to be directed.
>>2398383Kinda odd how the left (liberals and socdems, and even some socialist and communist) viewed Trump as an existential threat but they never bothered to go militant. Like not even shooting guns but have a plan to paralyze his efforts like for instance the Community Defense Coalitions in LA. They genuinely thought they could just vote him out and everything would go back to normal.
>>2398394>Yes it's the explicit goal of third worldists.wheres le proofs
>They explicitly say that their ideal of Socialism would collapse living standards.it would. it's going to collapse anyway, but it certainly will be faster if the world became socialist tomorrow, especially if you're a whiteoid in california. that's just facts.
>>2398341that was purely to provoke so he could have an excuse
total pig death
>>2398383This is true, I really need to work on forming a union or organizing in another way.
>>2398395Very true, we need to be coming together as a community if we want to survive.
Honestly I need to personally get my shit together so that way I can actually begin organizing in the real world but damn I am a lazy asshole.
>>2398171lmao, seething bitch.
>>2398195she did vote in favor of keeping funding the zios military (Iron dome), now she's trying to gaslight, the little bitch, and calling people, and calling neo-nazis everyone who is objecting her lmao.
>>2398412>When did I say I want a decline in living standards, hell, when did I mention mass death lol<it would. it's going to collapse anyway, but it certainly will be faster if the world became socialist tomorrow, especially if you're a whiteoid in california. that's just facts.You're clearly giddy at the prospect. Like it's obvious, you just have to look at what you write.
As for mass death, recessions alone have been shown to increase deaths by 0.5 for every 1000 people and 6 in every 1000 children born, you're talking about a total collapse in living standards, which will mean across the board more suicides, more deaths from alcoholism, more fucking babies dying.
You're fucking laughing about wanting to cause mass death and smirking like a jackass "Who, me? Who said I'd enjoy it"
>>2398430Because you've got socialists like this retard:
>>2398412Literally who do you expect people to side with when their backs are against the wall, the person saying "you've got it too good and its time we make things worse for you" or the bloodthirsty psycho who says if we kill enough people things will get better.
>>2398432I'm not going anywhere. Fucking use the filter if you want.
>>2398435>"You're trapped in debt, not making enough money to pay your rent? Good news! We're gonna make your life worse!" >>2398436>"You're trapped in debt, not making enough money to pay your rent? Good news! We're gonna make your life worse!"debt will be the least of your problems if the capitalists manage to take their goodies out of the US in the hypothetical case of a socialist revolution. besides of that, your point is?
it seems to me you are more scared of living an average living standard (average in world average) than doing actual existing socialism. maybe DSL-ANON would be a better depiction for you.
Let's logically play out the FRSO's line, after all, if I was to join any 'party' (exiting my own tendencies to prefer anarchist mutual aid orgs), they would be the first choice. They assert that there are three colonized nations within the United States that deserve self-determination. That idea isn't just coherent—it's compelling. I can see the logic in it, and frankly, I think it's pretty based. Let's suppose that line runs all the way through. Let's say it actually happens. Then what?
First: how do we make that happen? What's the mechanism of delivery? This isn't just a rhetorical question—it's a material one. The logistics are brutal. The opposition is entrenched. The state is highly militarized and deeply integrated across all zones of production.
Second: the capitalism problem. If you split the United States into three, four, maybe even five separate territories, what you've really done is give capital a map. Capital isn't rooted—it's fluid. It doesn't need to die with the US federal government. It'll just reroute through Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand—hell, maybe even Singapore. You break the US apart, and you've made it easier, not harder, for capital to reassert itself. You've decentralized the resistance but globalized the threat.
This is where the FRSO line begins to break down. Not because the premise of internal colonies is wrong. I agree: the Black Belt is a neo-colony. The South operates like a captured zone, economically gutted, politically disenfranchised. I'm not disputing that. But the strategy—balkanizing the US into ethno-national territories—won't resolve capitalism. It won't even contain it. It just weakens any unified anti-capitalist force while leaving the international networks of finance, extraction, and militarism untouched.
If we're serious about revolution, then the party line can't stop at America's borders. It has to be internationalist. You want to decolonize? Start talking about Canada, New Zealand, Australia—settler colonies, every one of them. Talk about Israel. Talk about the UK, the original imperial core, the banker to half the world's suffering. You really think that if the US fell, capital wouldn't just shift operations to London, redirect trade through Toronto, run psyops from Sydney, keep the machine running? Climate collapse isn't going to pause because you declared the Black Belt autonomous. Extraction doesn't slow down because you posted a new flag over Jackson, Mississippi.
The fundamental problem is that none of this is scaled to reality. The border between Canada and America is basically just made up. There are literal First Nations whose territory crosses that line, whose sovereignty predates it by centuries. So when people say land back, when they talk about decolonization of the North American landmass, they have to understand what that actually entails. None of the political parties in the US are thinking that big. Not the DSA, not the PSL, not the FRSO. They're not even close. Climate change introduces a non-negotiable constraint. Any politics not operating at a global, anti-capitalist, post-nation-state level is obsolete.
So what does that mean in practice? Let's imagine we win the revolution in the United States. Don't worry about how, MacGuffin it. We win. A new government is formed. A revolutionary one. What happens next? Well, those colonized areas—Black Belt, Aztlan, the Indigenous north—should become autonomous zones. Teal, structural autonomy. Something akin to what China's cultural autonomous zones. In that model, the former United States remains a single territory, but it's managed pluralistically. Actual power-sharing. Actual land back. Actual redistribution. That gives us more land, more people, more resources to manage in a way that is fundamentally anti-imperial and decolonial.
But it also means inheriting the empire's debris. The base in Okinawa. The five in Germany. Puerto Rico. The Bikini Atoll. Guantanamo. Djibouti. Hundreds of outposts. Hundreds of treaties and military arrangements. You don't just hit a switch and walk away. You can't pretend those things don't exist. You have to dismantle them. That takes time. A twenty-year transitional state, minimum, just to untangle the military-industrial complex and withdraw from global occupation.
What happens after victory will define the future of humanity, whether or not this revolutionary project is anti-capitalist in a global sense or merely a nationalist project. We're not just restructuring land relations within the continental US—we're targeting the entire architecture of global capital. That means recognizing that Canada is also a settler colony. That means recognizing that decolonization doesn't stop at a border checkpoint. If we win here, the next move is to march north, same as the Soviets wanted to march into Germany after 1917. If you don't carry the revolution forward, the counter-revolution carries itself back to you. The stakes of the climate crisis do not allow for revolutionaries to rest on their lorrels.
We need active coordination with movements in the UK, in Australia, in New Zealand. Logistical coordination. Material support. Revolutionary diplomacy. Party-to-party alliances. Underground infrastructure. Intelligence networks. Because if we win in isolation, we lose in the long run. Revolution that stays local is revolution that gets smothered.
No existing party in the United States is operating on this scale. None of them are even entertaining the idea that this is possible. They're stuck in the same paradigms that have failed for fifty years. But the material conditions have changed. Climate collapse has rewritten the rules of engagement. This is the only viable trajectory. There is a version of reality where the magazine I'm building becomes large enough to publish a document that outlines this exact vision—and that document becomes a spark. A rallying point. A threat. Maybe that's the goal.
https://archive.is/FecK4www.nytimes.com/2025/Why American Jews No Longer Understand One Another
>It’s a tense time in the Jewish family group chats. The consensus that held American Jewry together for generations is breaking down. That consensus, roughly, was this: What is good for Israel is good for the Jews. Anti-Zionism is a form of antisemitism. And there will, someday soon, be a two-state solution that reconciles Zionism and liberalism.
>Every component of that consensus has cracked.
>Zohran Mamdani’s triumph in New York City’s Democratic primary for mayor has forced, among many Jews, a reckoning with how far they have drifted from one another. Mamdani does not use the slogan “globalize the intifada,” but he does not condemn those who do. He has said that if he were mayor, Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel, would face arrest on war crimes charges if he set foot in New York City. Israel has a right to exist, he says, but “as a state with equal rights.”
>Many older Jews I know are shocked and scared by Mamdani’s victory. Israel, to them, is the world’s only reliable refuge for the Jewish people. They see opposition to Israel as a cloak for antisemitism. They believe that if the United States abandons Israel then Israel will, sooner or later, cease to exist. To them, Mamdani is a harbinger. If he can win in New York City — a city with more Jews than any save Tel Aviv — then nowhere is safe.
>Many younger Jews I know voted for Mamdani. They are not afraid of him. What they fear is a future in which Israel is an apartheid state ruling over ruins in Gaza and Bantustans in the West Bank. <They fear what that means for anti-Jewish violence all over the world. >They fear what that will do — what it has already done — to the meaning of Jewishness. Their commitment to the basic ideals of liberalism is stronger than their commitment to what Israel has become.
>For Jews of the diaspora, multiethnic democracy — in which the rights and security of political minorities are protected — is the bedrock on which our safety is built. For Jews of Israel, a Jewish majority is the bedrock upon which their state is built. “Only a state with at least 80 percent Jews is a viable and stable state,” David Ben-Gurion said in 1947. For decades, the two-state solution was the construct that allowed these values to coexist, if only at some point in the future. That vision now lies buried beneath the settlements of the West Bank, the rubble of Gaza and the expansionist ambitions of Israel’s right-wing government.
>Many American Jews blame Netanyahu for this. There is a fantasy that when he leaves, or is defeated, Israel will snap back to the politics of its past. But Netanyahu survives because, on this as on much else, he represents the Israeli mainstream. Polls show a majority of Israeli Jews are open to the expulsion of Palestinians and only a shrinking minority are still willing to entertain a Palestinian state. That there is widespread anger at Netanyahu in Israel is true. That those angry at Netanyahu want his successor to seek a Palestinian state, or even Palestinian rights, is false.
>The Grok mess is unnerving. The violence in the real world is chilling. A man is accused of setting fire to Gov. Josh Shapiro’s home. Two young employees of the Israeli Embassy in Washington were murdered as they left an American Jewish Committee event. A man used a makeshift flamethrower to attack a crowd rallying for the Israeli hostages in Boulder, Colo., killing a woman in her 80s. In all of these cases, officials said that the attackers described their motive as a defense of Palestinians. “Attacks against the Jewish community have been growing for years, experts on hate crimes say, but increasingly, perpetrators are citing Israel’s war in Gaza, blurring the line between opposing the Israeli government and opposing Jewish people,” The Washington Post reported.
<Acres of evidence attest to a reality all Jews know: Anger at Israel becomes anger at Jews everywhere. >This is delicate territory — both emotionally and factually. “Antisemitism is a prejudice,” Deborah Lipstadt, a professor of modern Jewish history and Holocaust studies at Emory University and President Joe Biden’s special envoy to monitor and combat antisemitism abroad, told me. “A prejudice can’t be caused by something. It’s inherently irrational.” But anger at Israel, Lipstadt continued, can “ give the antisemite a good excuse for ramping up their antisemitism,” or it can “give the person who’s been raised in Western culture where antisemitism is in the atmosphere something to fall back on.”
<Others see the link as more direct and causal. “ I think absolutely the weekly reports of Israeli soldiers shooting on Palestinians who are in long lines to get food is a calamity for Jews,” May said. “It’s a spiritual crisis. It’s a moral and political crisis and I do think it has tangible effects on Jewish security.”
>What other Jews see is a world that cares little for Jewish life and has always sought Israel’s destruction. “We’re talking about a country that exists,” Lipstadt said. “So when you say, ‘I’m an anti-Zionist,’ what is Zionism? It’s the right of Jews to have a national homeland. And if you’re saying, ‘I don’t believe in that,’ then on a very practical level, what happens to the six-plus million Jews who live in that country?”
>After our conversation, Lipstadt emailed me to underscore a point. “Here’s what I would say to those young people or whomever who question the right of Israel to exist. They may not be — they probably are not — antisemitic in intent, but placing the lives of half of the world Jewish population in danger is absolutely antisemitic in impact.”
<“ The world where everybody gets a right-wing ethnostate is not going be good for the Jews, even if we get one,” Lander said. “We all go to Netanyahu’s Israel because we’re not welcome here and it’s well armed, so maybe we have a chance? That is a dark timeline that I don’t want to live in, no matter how great a military you give me. That’s not a Jewish timeline, you know?”<New York City, he continued, has stood as the opposite of that vision. “It’s incredible what this place has been for us for a century-plus now, after 2,000 years of getting the crap kicked out of us all around the world. To have been able to flourish here. To be not just safe, but where everyone has to answer what their bagel order is in the mayor’s race. It’s an amazing Dominican city and Chinese city and lots of other things, but it’s an amazing Jewish city and to me, it proves the point that there is some resonance between Jewish flourishing and inclusive multiracial democracy.”>That may be true here. It is not how most Jews in Israel see it. For decades, American Judaism, built on the liberalism of the diaspora, has been interwoven with Zionism. What happens when the ideals of the one become incompatible with the reality of the other? >>2398438>Why do you keep sloppily trying to build strawmen you retarded fucking clownThird Worldists obsess about that "treatler" discourse and you're bitching about strawmen? Again: you're a retarded hypocrite.
Here's some statistics for you: over 36% of Americans rent, the median rent is ~$1,703 and the median American makes ~$47,960 annually. That roughly means he spends more than half his paycheck just trying to put a fucking rough over his head. This isn't some small percentage of Americans, this is more than a third of the country.
63% of Americans say they can't afford an emergency $500 expense, half of Americans have less than $500 in savings. So when you're saying "living standards will fall" you're telling a majority of people who are in debt, who are scrimping and saving, that you're gonna make their lives
worse.>>2398442>>2398444>Third worldists continuing to whine they're being strawmanned while strawmanning everyone else. >>2398448While the idea that living standards are overall going to fall (and that's a good thing!) is bogus, I think it's worth pointing out that during and immediately after the revolution we're going to have a lot of fixing to do. A lot of shit will be broken, to put it simply. So while everything is being put back together, I can foresee that many Americans, perhaps even the majority, will be negatively impacted by the upheaval in terms of direct quality of life.
But even then? Considering communism would immediately grant the benefits of a community that trusts and takes care of each other and a government or mutual defense group focused on people over profits? Yeah I think even then most Americans would choose to give up a steady stream of junk food and boxed wine if it meant having a life that's actually fulfilling. The benefits of having an actual community outweigh the temporary reduction in certain comforts, and once things are back on track we can replicate those comforts without the drawbacks.
>>2398451>I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's a depression. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job. The dollar buys a nickel's worth; banks are going bust; shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter; punks are running wild in the street, and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it.
>We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat. And we sit watching our TVs while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be!
>We all know things are bad – worse than bad – they're crazy.
>It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out any more. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we're living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, "Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials, and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone."
>Well, I'm not going to leave you alone.
>I want you to get mad!
>I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot. I don't want you to write to your Congressman, because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street.
>All I know is that first, you've got to get mad.
>You've gotta say, "I'm a human being, goddammit! My life has value!"
>So, I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window, open it, and stick your head out and yell, "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!!" >>2398452>why would crippling debt or fucking landlords even be a thing under actually existing socialism, are you retarded?Jesus, I've got to walk you through the implications of your own argument? Fine, let me explain because you clearly don't have the brains for it.
>"Your standard of living is gonna COLLAPSE under Socialism"This is what third worldists, such as yourself, keep repeating again and again.
I point out: the majority of Americans don't have much in savings. What money they make from their wages is eaten up by rent, by groceries, emergency expenses, you name it.
So when you tell a person that has $500 or less in their bank account that their living standards are gonna collapse, they're seeing that last $500 disappear at best. At worst, they think you want to make shit look like "The Road".
Can you fucking grasp that, or is that too big-brained for you, you fucking retard?
<"B-buh why would landlords exist under Socialism?!?!?!?!"You're leading with
>"Your standard of living is gonna collapse under Socialism"If you're going to claim now, "well we're gonna get rid of the landlords" then you're fundamentally undermining your claim that "your standards of living will collapse" because to many people, getting rid of their landlords would improve their financial situation.
So what the fuck is it gonna be, are you saying that most Americans' standard of living will fall after socialism or is it gonna improve? Fucking pick one.
>>2398455See I broadly agree with everything you're saying, but it's hard to talk about how people be immediatly gaining the benefits of community or a government that cares for them when you've got vocal people in the movement like the jackass I'm arguing with who only want to lead with "lets make your life worse!"
>>2398464Unless you're not the anon here
>>2398397 then I said:
>They explicitly say that their ideal of Socialism would collapse living standards.To which you replied:
<it would. it's going to collapse anyway, but it certainly will be faster if the world became socialist tomorrow, especially if you're a whiteoid in california. that's just facts.You're literally arguing that it would collapse the standard of living. You literally just agreed. Though when I point out how retarded a notion that is, you run with your tail between your legs and try to pretend you never said that.
>>2398462>a protracted class war,True.
>but point taken.Yeah I might've read it wrong because that's such a common talking point in America against socialism like this:
>>2398463Still Americans would be richer if the world wealth was redistributed it says.
>>2398459because the US living standards are insanely high, due to historical circumstances that consolidated the US international financial world, and trade routes (see Bretton Woods accords).
The results of those material conditions allowed the US to be vastly rich, with a ruling class highly exploitative not only to Americans, but also to the rest of the world (and more to the rest of the world, to contain subversive actions inside the US).
If real socialism were to suddenly start tomorrow on the US, there's no more exploitation, not only to Americans, but to the rest of the world.
Think it this way: The sugar-cane slaves v. the house uyghro. The masters disappears, along with their wealth, how do you think the house uyghro would be for a while?
Yes, after years, a couple of generations perhaps, both groups would live a better life, but no doubt the house uyghro will have an economic shock.
>>2398475Again, are you not the anon here?
>>2398397Yes or no, it's a simple fucking question.
>>2398479Most of the people who are terminally online, is terminlly online.
which is good
>>2398358>Unironically I think if modern leftists were transported to 1910 you'd see shit like them trying to turn "#LeninSoWhite" into a slogan or claim the Bolsheviks were white supremacists because they weren't doing enough for the Kalmyks.I'm surprised they didn't try to roll out a "Woke" anti-Communism about a decade ago. I think most of the "Read Settlers" types would have eaten it up.
>>2398484Not to mention 9/10 of the "People's Revolutionary Decolonial Army" or whatever would be agent provocateurs from various law enforcement agencies.
>>2398478Third worldists honestly just do the Roy Cohn thing:
>Incessantly attack>Deny everything>Declare victory>>2398479Sadly I've met a few of them IRL, but I can say Houdini does good work from what I've seen. I wish him the best.
When I've done some on the ground stuff, honestly it's been difficult. At first we tried some "collective leadership" thing, but most folks were too shy or nervous to take responsibility, so I ended up trying to organize things or delegate tasks. Then there'd just be weeks of ghosting. It was frankly pretty demoralizing.
>>2398480>Which question?The one in this post
>>2398477 you can generally tell someone is asking a question by the little squiggly line at the end of a sentence. This: "?" is called a question mark, it means you're asking a question.
So when someone says something like "Are you the anon here?" and then follows up with another sentence where they ask "Yes or no?" It means they want you to answer the question with either a yes or a no.
>>2398481>>2398485>>2398489I mean for one, they've got Universal Healthcare, right? Some degree of rent control I imagine? There are fucking apartments out here in bad neighborhoods with almost no utilities that are going for $2,400 a month. If you don't have a job you likely don't have health insurance, and even if you have health insurance, your surgeon may end up fighting with insurance companies mid-surgery to explain that they can't cut you up and finger around your insides without anesthesia.
Socialism would cure these ills. Doubtless you'd have to fight the bourgeoisie for it, but the only reason to bring up the cost of fighting is to try to dissuade people from doing it.
>>2398498and in some cases its both
*points to king lear
>>2398498>Most of these types are too chickenshit to do anything.I wish I could say I wasn't chickenshit.
>>2398502There's no way they could get away with depicting Jews as rodents these days.
>>2398491>I'm surprised they didn't try to roll out a "Woke" anti-Communism about a decade ago. I think most of the "Read Settlers" types would have eaten it up.See given the CPUSA's history, I can tell you that the way the "woke" stuff fits in is by trying to schism organizations, it's less effective from the outside. So they'd use shit like Maoists or Anarchists to prompt splits, talk about how "everyone else is a worse leftist, true leftists would look for a ideologically pure party" and then they'd never actually create that party.
They had one ages ago that was called, like, "Ad-Hoc Committee for a Marxist-Leninist Party" that was basically a long diatribe about how the CPUSA went revisionist and how it's time to have a true Communist party in the vein of Mao and Stalin. Got plenty of people to split.
>>2398373The core of third worldism is empty moralism. Marxists keep on showing how it's internally inconsistent but instead of dealing with it they will just continue to cry about some random atrocity.
>>2398375You are right in a way. Many people in the west come to communism after seeing liberalism's moral failures. Many of them have trouble leaving behind that mind set to look at the objective analysis of Marxism That's why western leftists have such problems dealing with the guilt tripping of decolonization radlibs, arnarchists, and third worldists.
>>2398493>Third worldists honestly just do the Roy Cohn thing:any time now, you can address any of the points I've made:
>>2398474>>2398442>>2398435Instead of actually you doing the strawmen you accuse others of doing, and maybe I wouldn't be declaring victory.
>thirldwordists.Fuck senile Mao. I am not fan of his final works. Why are you obfuscated for the problems presented here.
>>2398501I’m starting to wonder if part of it is not even knowing definitions for “standard of living”
>”My god, they can get Bananas! Well there will be no bananas under socialism! Their standard of living will collapse!”>>2398512You have to have a point to rebut, what you did instead was call the average American a house uyghur, made vague allusions to capitalists “taking the goods” and then just say “American living standards are high because they exploit the rest of the world” while never defining what those fucking living standards are. So having less than $500 in your account is a “high living standard” to you. Having more than half your paycheck being swallowed up by rent is a “high living standard” to you. Being unable to quit your job is a “high living standard” to you. Having less time off than other developed nations is a “high living standard” to you. So when you say living standards will collapse (something you keep pretending you aren’t saying while you’re constantly saying it) then that means the people with less than $500 in their account will have zero. The people with half their wage going to rent will have all of it go to rent. The people whose insurance won’t cover life saving procedures now won’t even have coverage for a fucking flu shot. That’s what you mean by their living standards collapsing.
Of course next you’ll do the Jordan Peterson thing of never defining your position then complaining whenever anyone else defines it for you. Well tough shit, if you play these games then people will state your points for you.
>>2398530Nobody is going to attack them bro. The Houthis are too small, Hezbollah got BTFO'd and Iran CUCKed out after a couple of missile exchanges.
As long as the burger money keeps flowing (which shows no sign of stopping anytime soon) PiSSraHHell will continue their genocidal expansion completely unpunished.
>>2398533>what you did instead was call the average American a house uyghurare you saying there's nothing alike between the slavery system and the modern day capitalist system? try to explain mass migration exodus from the global south, then.
> made vague allusions to capitalists “taking the goods”that's not a vague allusion. in every revolution I have seen, the falling ruling elites that have managed to run with a lot of capital they resettle to where their extracted wealth can be protected, which in its form, it's also made poorer the country from where they were from.
>while never defining what those fucking living standards are.akshually, have you ever been interested in finding out what those standards are? you have never been interested in knowing more about wealth inequality in the world.
if you haven't, how then do you conceptualize what imperialism is? protip: it isn't
le war between countries.
>So having less than $500 in your account is a “high living standard” to you.how do you think people around in the world lives?
they live with less than that.
jesus, you are extremely pathetic. you are doing a dick contest but with poverty,
to the point that you are at some few steps of claiming that the US doesn't do imperialism nor exploitation of the global south.
>Having less time off than other developed nations is a “high living standard” to you.YES IT ISobjectively,
IT IS, TRUTH HURTS, BUT IT'S TRUTH.
> So when you say living standards will collapse (something you keep pretending you aren’t saying while you’re constantly saying it) then that means the people with less than $500 in their account will have zerodo you have a blueprint to size every penny stolen from the rich? No one dreaming of a socialist revolution has a plan for that at all, and they never had. SO yes, there will be an economic shock in that case scenario in which a socialist revolution actually takes over the US.
is that bad to say it?
no? just facts.
is that good to say it?
I don't care either.
>The people with half their wage going to rent will have all of it go to rent. The people whose insurance won’t cover life saving procedures now won’t even have coverage for a fucking flu shot. That’s what you mean by their living standards collapsing.
>no rent>less sallary, nonetheless.>whose insurance won’t cover life saving procedures>less sallary, nonetheless.
>That’s what you mean by their living standards collapsing.YES, because they won't have the ability to exploit the global south.
>Of course next you’ll do the Jordan Peterson thing of never defining your position then complaining whenever anyone else defines it for youprjection, kiddo. you are the one never engaging in the concepts thoroughly.
>Well tough shit, if you play these games then people will state your points for you. >>2398533Something third worldists don’t seem to get is that American currency buys far less in America than it does in other countries due to price gouging/greedflation and lack of price controls.
A person in the third world with $500 of American currency will be able to buy a fair amount, an American with $500 will be broke.
I’m pretty sure foreigners have no idea what’s actually happening over here. A while back, I was on Rednote, and until the TikTok refugees cleared things up, folks seriously thought we were living in mansions
>>2398550See:
>>2398561You’re just throwing a tantrum because you based your worldview on an image of this place that doesn’t exist.
>>2398561>buys far less in Americaand it's still more than in the global south. ffs.
you are economic illiterates. every single one of you who claim that in America the poor lives worst in the global south wants to assume that with $500 people live well in the global south, and also not broke either. and without any knowledge that many of them have less than that.
see the fucking picrel. it's undeniable evidence that the PER CAPITA person in the US has more chances to buy more stuff, and it's a fucking population of +300million dollars, which tells you how fucking rich that country is, how much wealth has been accumulated for decades.
>>2398567any time now, address the points, then. because all the orinal points made by CPUSAnon is claim the US won't be poorer.
>>2398588So you’re looking at PPP without taking into account wage statistics and building an argument off that? Who’s the illiterate here?
Frankly, you’re just cherry picking while dick swinging over poverty, while accusing others of doing the same.
>>2398600Where has ever been addressed the trade imbalance as a response on how production of the US is a response on itself about how the US is wealthier in terms of GDP PPP PC? are you implying somehow, that the US is
le advanced race that produces more than anyone else lmao.
chud mentality.
>>2398606hello academic
quick question. How are heterdoxical economicsts like friedrich list and henry carey viewed in academia?
Are they still talked about or forgotten?
>>2398593Well as long as you suffer too.
At least people aren't whining about Jews I guess.
>>2398550>are you saying there's nothing alike between the slavery system and the modern day capitalist system? try to explain mass migration exodus from the global south, then. See the thing with house slaves is it's usually anywhere from one to a handful of specialized individuals whilst the vast majority of slaves work in the field. You're doing the equivalent of claiming the plantation is ENTIRELY house slaves because the planter has stock in mining concerns in the Congo.
>that's not a vague allusion. in every revolution I have seen, the falling ruling elites that have managed to run with a lot of capital they resettle to where their extracted wealth can be protected, which in its form, it's also made poorer the country from where they were from.What, are they gonna use a gigantic shovel to physically lift the country out from under our feet? The land will magically disappear? The tangible, physical resources of the nation will just go poof? The Capitalists will wave a magic wand and somehow the land will no longer be fertile, the oil reserves we have will vanish, the very strength workers use to build things will just disappear?
>akshually, have you ever been interested in finding out what those standards are? you have never been interested in knowing more about wealth inequality in the world.In economic terms, the standard of living is defined as the ease of access to the necessities of life, mainly food and shelter and in capitalist terms wage, as well. By claiming the Standard of Living will collapse under Socialism, you're saying that Socialism will make things like housing and food harder to obtain, which is pretty fucking wild given we've got entire states where there's more corn than people, we've got more food than we know what to do with. And as it stands at present, there's a housing crisis in America whose roots are entirely Capitalistic. It's not considered a necessity, but an asset to accrue in value. The median age of home buyers in America has climbed to 56, in no small part because housing has become a speculative asset bought up by corporations and landlords hoping to sit on it. Eliminate those parasites and suddenly you have much easier means to house people.
>if you haven't, how then do you conceptualize what imperialism is? protip: it isn't le war between countries.I define imperialism in terms of overripened capital trying to subjugate new markets to exploit in the name of profit. Whereas third worldists define it as a gnostic demiurge by which material existence itself in the West depends.
>how do you think people around in the world lives?Well there's some speculation that the average Chinese person has between $8000-$10000 in savings, though data is hard to come by.
>jesus, you are extremely pathetic. you are doing a dick contest but with poverty, to the point that you are at some few steps of claiming that the US doesn't do imperialism nor exploitation of the global south.Nah, between the two of us, you're the one that looks at Americans struggling to pay bills and whine "Well why aren't we talking about THE THIRD WORLD?!"
>YES IT ISIf
less time off than other developed nations is a higher standard of living then what the fuck are third worldists complaining about?
>do you have a blueprint to size every penny stolen from the rich? No one dreaming of a socialist revolution has a plan for that at all, and they never had. SO yes, there will be an economic shock in that case scenario in which a socialist revolution actually takes over the US.
<"Muh pennies!"Socialism isn't when you take what the rich have in dollars and then spread those greenbacks over to everyone you fucking retard, but I'm glad you're showing just how you conceive of it. For one, it would be the abolition of profit in terms of production. So let the rich take every last penny, every fucking dollar, as long as we've got people and land and resources then we can just fucking build housing. The actual dollar amounts is ethereal. As long as we're in control of our own currency (and there'd be no reason for a Socialist America to not have a new currency) then we can expand the actual things that matter in an economy; housing, factories, farms, you name it.
>is that bad to say it?I mean yes, telling people that their lives will be worse under socialism and living standards will collapse is objectively bad if your goal is to try and achieve Socialism.
>YES, because they won't have the ability to exploit the global south."You don't want to pay half of what you earn to a landlord? Ummm, have you considered that'll make the Global South sad?"
Boy sure seems like people in the global south are assholes if they want to get in the way of giving people homes.
Seriously, I think this conversation is really illuminating because it shows just how little you know about Socialism and the Standard of Living. Maybe you're just a spoiled brat, I dunno, but to you the Standard of Living is just "when you get the newest game console" or "when you see the latest movie". To me, and basically any serious person discussing economics, the Standard of Living is about, y'know, things you need to live. Will there be a drastic change in how America does things? Oh without a doubt. The arrangements we have now aren't in existence because they're the only ones that
can exist, it's because they're the only ones that are currently profitable. But Socialism disregards profit. So we'll likely move from things like vast swathes of fruit pickers composed of impoverished LatAm migrants to maybe more mechanized farming techniques. We'll move from people buying houses solely to sit on them and accrue value to (most likely) large scale national projects to eliminate homelessness. The vast rents that landlords extract would be abolished and people would likely only pay for upkeep, distributed amongst all the people actually living in state-apartments.
There will be of course things we don't have here, but that can be overcome with some amount of peaceful trade. In fact, removing the profit motive would likely spur on technological growth, given that things like "planned obsolescence" are products of a capitalist economic system. There's actually several articles on farmers revolting against "new" tractors because, rather than being upgrades, they're simply over-complicated so that the companies that produce the tractors will have a monopoly on repairing them when they inevitably break down. Socialist technology would be durable, adaptable, and repairable.
So I'd contend that Socialism would, in fact, dramatically improve living standards for Americans. People would have to work less, most likely, given their needs can be met with one job alone. The thousand little pinpricks that Capitalism inflicts on people out here would vanish, and affordable communal entertainment would likely become more common.
>>2398609He’s not an academic, he’s making basic-ass mistakes and strawmanning based on semantics.
Dude’s not even disaggregating the data between class positions and income levels so he can act like everyone here lives in Beverly Hills so he can play poverty olympics
>>2398621the cryptochuds don't know about trade and and balance of payments imbalances work. they think the US lives through photosynthesis. they haven't explained how GPD PPP PC is high, while maintaining these trade/balance of payments at these levels:
>>2398625>I am going to invent a new measurement instrument, much better than the GDP PPP PC to prove that America (TM-Eagles sounds) is not richer than the rest through exploitation and that when the rich leave the ship on a real socialist revolution we are not going to suffer an economic shock.you are funny, lmao. until then.
>link you work.>le doxx youselfyou first, bro.
>>2398596Nah, Iron Felix isn't lost. You just gotta check police scanners around Little Rock and keep an ear out for things like animal cruelty, stabbing attacks, public indecency (in this case, make sure they mention something about a Putin body pillow) and the like.
Or we can wait until he leaves us a mysterious cypher with a half-eaten liver attached.
>>2398639Oh the third kind of poster,easily.
The one who talks mad shit about US political theater, on account if it being internationalized, and then becomes the biggest fan of whatever mediocre socdem in the periphery. Based on exactly the same sources, US/NATO media, but their alt-media contrarian wing.
It's not even "campism" or whateverthefuck. It's just being a dupe.
OH and while they follow the anglo culture war meticulously, their ESL ass don't know jack shit about their own country's politics or history beyond where it comes up in the anglo recounting.
>>2398627>See the thing with house slaves is it's usually anywhere from one to a handful of specialized individuals whilst the vast majority of slaves work in the field. You're doing the equivalent of claiming the plantation is ENTIRELY house slaves because the planter has stock in mining concerns in the Congo.yes, it is.
All these graphs prove it:
>>2398588,
>>2398591,
>>2398597,
>>2398633.
>What, are they gonna use a gigantic shovel to physically lift the country out from under our feet?they don't need that, with digital banking they can land wherever they have an army, and have a political class knitted and committed to capitalism. as simple as.
>The land will magically disappear?>The Capitalists will wave a magic wand and somehow the land will no longer be fertile, the oil reserves we have will vanish, the very strength workers use to build things will just disappear? no,
but you have to come to terms that you will be poorer for a long time. it's not a question of IF, it's a question of for how long. because you have wealth displaced from one point to another, and, unless there's a GLOBAL socialist revolution, you won't have back that accumulated wealth.
>you're saying that Socialism will make things like housing and food harder to obtainunless that global revolution happens, you will be poorer for a while, yes. even if the government proposes a large housing, health, and wealth redistribution policy, you won't have knick-knacks, two monitors on the house, new furniture every time you want, new paint on the wall, cars every now and then, clothes filling up your closet. yeah. because those things are made out of the exploitation of other people abroad.
>I define imperialism in terms of overripened capital trying to subjugate new markets to exploit in the name of profit. Whereas third worldists define it as a gnostic demiurge by which material existence itself in the West depends.where does that "new… profits" go? protip: not to the exploited nations.
and that's how the house uyghro/plantation uyghro analogy works: you have better chances, you have more GPD PPP PC, etc.
>Well there's some speculation that the average Chinese person has between $8000-$10000 in savings, though data is hard to come by.The Chinese GDP PPP PC sucks. you are using anecdotical fallacies seen in TikTok to pretend that old ladies 80 years old don't travel from the countryside to the city with a basket full of vegetables to sell it on the streets. which it's also another anecdote on itself.
>you're the one that looks at Americans struggling to pay bills and whine "Well why aren't we talking about THE THIRD WORLD?!"no, I am one that is tired of YOUR whining that you have, with people with serious grievance, people that has pointed out to you, that you are not capable of harnessing these criticism in a constructive way, and then comes in running pretending that Americans have it worst.
>Socialism isn't when you take what the rich haveThings never implied.
>but I'm glad you're showing just how you conceive of it.Things never impliedx2.
>I mean yes, telling people that their lives will be worse under socialism and living standards will collapse is objectively bad if your goal is to try and achieve Socialism.It'll be, there's nothing wrong with that, you'll finally be free of exploiting any other human being. you don't need a house or houses with 3, 4, 5, rooms each, 1 car per person, and all that entitles being an average American according to the simple GDP PPP PC graph I have just posted.
>"You don't want to pay half of what you earn to a landlord? Ummm, have you considered that'll make the Global South sad?"Hey, if you want to go tomorrow and don't pay landlords, and do a socialist revolution that takes over –really– the means of production, without exploiting anyone else, go for it, you'll be poor, I'll be happy I am not exploited anymore by Americans, etc.
>iously, I think this conversation is really illuminating because it shows just how little you know about Socialism and the Standard of Living.lmao what a serious projection all this wall text is.
I live in the global south:
I HAVE BEEN USING THE SAME FUCKING SHOES FOR 5 YEARS. I ONLY HAVE ONE PAIR THAT ISN'T LEAKING WATER WHEN WALK ON POODLES.
ALL MY SOCKS ARE MORE HOLES THAN FABRIC.
I HAVE BEEN USING THE SAME CLOTHES FOR 5 YEARS.
I HAVE LOST THE NUMBER OF DAYS THAT I WENT WITH ONE MEAL ON THE FUCKING STOMACH.
I HAVE BEEN HAVING TEETHACHE FOR YEARS WITHOUT A CHANCE TO EVEN SEE A DENTIST TO AT LEAST GET A DIAGNOSE, FORGET ABOUT MEDICAL ROUTINES.
And why? because the Americans LOVE to meddle with the economics and exports of their political adversaries, but here you are projecting, hard as you can.
>>2398637I am not American, though.
>>2398640I AM ANXIOUS to show you my work, please, doxx yousefl first so I can go, and I will show you how many courses I was ghostwritting for all kinds of fields, including two post graduate economic thesis.
please, please, doxx yourself.
>>2398660I meet homeless people who can’t even afford to post here.
How would you feel if they ignored your problems just because you have a roof?
You’d feel insulted, because someone else having it worse doesn’t make your problems less bad.
>>2398684It's like you guys are arguing:
>Under socialism, we will share the electricity generation capacity evenly!It's just retarded on the face of it. I don't know where to start.
>>2398660Gonna be brief because frankly this conversation has gone on far too long and I'm gonna spend some time with friends but to go off a few points.
>I HAVE BEEN USING THE SAME FUCKING SHOES FOR 5 YEARS. I ONLY HAVE ONE PAIR THAT ISN'T LEAKING WATER WHEN WALK ON POODLES.I wore the same pair of shoes for 7 years, complete with holes. They were ratty as all get out with no support, when I'd get off work I'd come home limping.
>ALL MY SOCKS ARE MORE HOLES THAN FABRIC.Same with mine.
>I HAVE BEEN USING THE SAME CLOTHES FOR 5 YEARS.So have I.
>I HAVE LOST THE NUMBER OF DAYS THAT I WENT WITH ONE MEAL ON THE FUCKING STOMACH.Thankfully haven't had that.
>I HAVE BEEN HAVING TEETHACHE FOR YEARS WITHOUT A CHANCE TO EVEN SEE A DENTIST TO AT LEAST GET A DIAGNOSE, FORGET ABOUT MEDICAL ROUTINES.I've only gotten a few chances for Urgent Care, at which point I'm driving all over the county to find one that accepts my insurance, then I wait 6 hours, then a week later I get a bill in the hundreds of dollars because of either some bureaucratic mixup or my insurance doing some byzantine nonsense so they don't have to pay. I don't have a regular doctor.
Y'know part of me wanted to go: "Oh, ALL your shoes have holes, so you've got more than one pair?" and boast about how you're a stupid spoiled brat because you're gaudy enough to have more than one pair of shoes, but unlike you, I don't think I'm competing for sympathy with the guy who has two pairs of shoes with holes in them.
>>2398670I refuse to be like Houdini. Thanks, but no thank you.
>>2398677>I meet homeless people who can’t even afford to post here.and those anecdotical evidences aren't enough for us, yes? that's why I present the GDP PPP PC, and I got dismissed with these snarky comments:
>>2398625 >>2398606 >>2398599 >>2398604 where they can't present a better economic metric, to prove that the US is incredibly wealthy, despite its +300 million people and not a small insignificant monarchy with literal modern-day slaves like Qatar, because these cripple-brain can't accept these realities.
>>2398703>>2398707>You know rental payments count for GDP?that depends of the country. some countries never accounted rental as a part of the GDP, like the USSR. ofc, the US does, that's how they skyrocketed their GDP over the years, nonetheless, you'll have to show me that no other country on earth includes rentals, plus that the weight of those rentals affect much more the data of the US than the others to make a sensible case.
In the meantime, I will wait for a new metric, a more accurate one, which I will gladly read it.
>and when you offer anecdotes about your own suffering, it’s okay - but others’ don’t count, apparently.I never started with anecdotes, if you read the thread with care.
>>2398732The second pic reminds me of a 1960s French New Left anti-American film.
>S-A-N-I-T-Y spells sanity! We fight for sanity, for one and for all! It's you-and-me-ity, and we're ten foot tall! Sanity, sanity, we'll always beat 'em with star-spangled sanity! We're on a mission from GOD to restore SANITY! What would Jake and Elwood do? I'll tell ya, they're work hard. Jake was a boxer, a dishwasher, a striker and a strike breaker. Yeah! Elwood was an engineer, an efficiency expert, a male nurse and an informer – he was everything. Like me. Yeah! You're right. It's rough, and it's tough where I come from. But if you've got what it takes, we'll take what you've got and then some! >>2398719same chart sorted by median
keep in mind these wealth per adult statistics do not adjust for purchasing power. They're usually reported in nominal USD, not PPP-adjusted USD. PPP matters more when considering what your dollars actually get you in terms of food, water, shelter, meds, etc.
>>2398741Then do it! Where is it? Where was the oppressed billions when Qadaffi was murdered?
The only thing that 90% of people on this stupid fucking site has are people fervently reliving the 20th century in their fantasies where they can constantly hold some high point of communist action in their heads so they don't have to actually address anything that came after.
>>2398749Nobody but terminally campist brained MLs cares about Gaddafi. Most of the world was happy to see him gone
>B-but Lybia sucks even more now!Not a point in favor for Gaddafi.
>>2398751All ameriKKKans do is consume, produce garbage, and make 6 year olds pray to the ameriKKKan flag?
Astounding selfown, imperialist
>>2398737you irredeemable far right nationalists, once you build an army like uncle felix keeps telling you even though he hates you and thinks you're irredeemable and won't do it (the third world will not do it for you stop expecting them to)
>>2398736>Anything that is good for America is bad for the worlddoesn't have to be that way. a better world is possible.
>>2398753Cool now show to me what or who anyone is actually rallying behind.
The average poster here is, again, more interested in sawing the corners off modern reality to make it fit the text of an 80 year old book to actually come up with an answer to small details like "how is this crucially necessary thing going to happen"
>>2398753>muh MLs>muh campistswhat's next? zigger? tankie? out yourself as a lib.
<Nobody but terminally campist brained MLs cares about Gaddafi. Most of the world was happy to see him goneLiar.
<Not a point in favor for Gaddafi.How is a the open air slave markets in Libya after the coup against Gaddafi not a point in favor of him? NATO destroyed Libya and now you gloat about it.
>>2398763MLs and Ziggers ARE libs.
Didn't read the rest of your post btw.
Your dear anti-communist leader got fingered to death btw.
>>2398771Global Nuclear War is Historically Progressive as it will allow for a World Maoist PPW to create a Global USSR that will place the Workers and Oppressed Nations of the World on the Shining Path to Communism, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🚀☢️! By the way what do my fellow Comrades think of my Dialectical Materialist explanation of the need to eliminate Bourgeois Femininity and Flatten the Reactionary Gender Binary in the Worldwide Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution in the future Global USSR at
>>2398767 , 🤔?
>>2398786Qaddafi was a Based Anti-Imperialist, Anti-Zionist, Arab Nationalist, Social Democrat, and you are a Zionist Imperialist Neocon, 😂🤣🤢🤮! By the way what do my fellow Comrades think of my Dialectical Materialist explanation of the need to eliminate Bourgeois Femininity (ie. Forcing all Women to have extremely Short Hair (Pixie Cut or shorter), Banning Dresses/Skirts, Banning Makeup/Lipstick, etc.) and Flatten the Reactionary Gender Binary (Artificial Wombs will complete this) in the Worldwide Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution in the future Global USSR at
>>2398767 , 🤔
>>2398767Cut out this TERF nonsense.
The origins of the prostitution of women (marriage) lie in the private ownership of the household, and the primitive non-industrial nature of domestic labor and childcare. We fight patriarchy by stuff like building commie blocks, cheap diners and laundromats. This radfem shit os idealist nonsense which in no way protects working class women from having to sell their ass for rent.
More radically, the reserve pool of labor should squat and seize unoccupied speculative housing in political protest of high-interest rates, police brutality, domestic violence and the capitalist system.
Semi-relevant
https://www.marxists.org/subject/women/authors/davis-angela/housework.htm . I also recommend Harry Braverman's "Labor and Monopoly Capital" on women's issues.
>>2398792i'm not saying it was good the country was invaded, just that you get what you deserve when you cultivate that sort of thing
>>2398796lear can you stop reposting it over and over again? i get it i'm hillary clinton and all that
>>2398795i agree, i just think had gaddafi not been an idiot libya wouldn't be bombed and split into a warlord state right now, nor would he have been raped to death
>>2398805i didn't say that the "world was happy to see him gone" just that i don't care he was raped
>>2398804firstly he made a target of himself back in the 80s by being a schizophrenic, then he thought simply cozying up to the west would save him, it obviously wouldn't, then he was surprised that because he wasn't a secularist, there would be large amounts of islamists
>>2398811yeah you are
>>2398734>reject Bourgios Feminity (ie. Cut her Hair extremely short, stop wearing Dresses/skirts, start talking in a deeper voice, etc.)I find these kinds of women incredibly annoying so that would lose my vote. No offense to your fetish I guess but women should be feminine and men should be masculine.
Probably one reason I'm drawn to Chinese Communism, they actually respect social harmony and aren't looking to turn politics into a fashion statement.
>>2398816>HamasGood only because the Zionists killed literally every other resistance group
>Hezbollah CUCkranian puppets who got their shit kicked iin
>Houthis Hilarious seeing how they sink USAnian ships but extremely insignificant
>>2398834Nationalism, 1st world: 😡😡😡
Nationalism, 3rd world: 😍😍😍
>>2398832shouldn't have been an islamist then and you might even still have a gaddafi
>>2398834you would genuinely support ᴉuᴉlossnW if he existed today, he was just like your gaddafi
>>2398822>>2398822>>2398831Mao created the Immortal Science of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism, the Highest Stage of Marxism, so even if he made a few mistakes (ie. his stance on Homosexuality, which to my knowledge was quite moderate for that time period, but obviously could have been a lot better, and modern Maoist, including those waging PPWs in India, the Phillipines, Turkey, and Peru, are very Pro-LGBTQIA+ rights), he is still one of the Five greatest Communists in History (alongside Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Stalin), and obviously the Material Base is very important for the Liberation of Women, and all Private ownership of Land and Housing will be abolished in the Socialist Mode of Production instituted in the future Global USSR, but we cannot forget about the Reactionary Bourgeois Superstructure just because it makes Bourgeois Khrushchevite/Dengist Social Fascist Revisionists uncomfortable, and the future Global USSR will wage a Worldwide Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution that will eliminate Bourgeois Femininity (ie. Forcing all Women to have extremely Short Hair (Pixie Cut or shorter), Banning Dresses/Skirts, Banning Makeup/Lipstick, etc.) and Flatten the Reactionary Gender Binary (Artificial Wombs will complete this) in order to complete the Full Liberation of Women through a Total Socialist Transformation of both the Base and Superstructure (Religion will also be banned as well), ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🚀☢️!
>>2398814> you shouldn't place the fate of millions of workers on the hands of strongman this is bullshit and you know it. NATO didn't destroy libya
just by killing gaddafi, but by dismantling the entire Jamahiriya system of govt. and putting bloodthirsty reactionaries in control
>>2398835>i consistently confuse anticolonial national liberation movements with imperial core national chauvinism because both are colloquially called "nationalist" and then double down when someone points this out> Even the anti-Gaddafi guy said our own involvement was wrong in the Libya situationYeah in between gloating about him being raped and saying "nobody cares" that America destroyed that country and introduced literal slavery… and pretending gaddafi was the same as fucking ᴉuᴉlossnW…. just disgusting zionazi bullshit fear mongering about "islamism" because if the people fighting back against genocide and imperialist are also religious (since that tends to correlate with being deprived of education food and shelter) it's no longer valid
>>2398843IDGAF about your utopia. I care about your actions here and today. Going against cultural markers of "bourgeois feminity" does jackshit for women.
Why not force men to have long hair, use lipstick, wear makeup and skirts instead? You're just a misogynist who feels uncomfortable around the cultural markers of femininity. Who is to determine what proletarian feminity is anyhow?
And comparing kinds of dress to the power of wealthy property owning religious institutions is absurd.
>>2398869But for real tho
get off Turtle island
until you do why do you think you have room to talk about the "darkies" and their impurities?
Or alternatively turn LA into Fallujah
You know, just anything
"resistance"
>>2398874>there are too many waitu piggus in JapanNo there are not.
>>2398870you are projecting
>>2398865still mad your heroes got raped
>>2398908>real democracybourgeois democracy is not real democracy
Lenin:
<the workers of the whole world sympathise with the Soviet Republic precisely because they regard it as a proletarian democracy, a democracy for the poor, and not a democracy for the rich that every bourgeois democracy, even the best, actually is.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1918/prrk/democracy.htm
>No political movement will get anywhere in America without some kind of nationalist rhetoric I think. I think our nationalist stuff is good. Tailing the national chauvinists? Bad idea. I get that some people want to wave around Lincoln and the Civil war and Harriet Tubman and John Brown and shit like that and call that nationalism… but that shit was 160 years ago and all our nationalists today are either imperialists gloating about how it it's funny that we're destroying the middle east or kooky reactionaries who want to give up being world police but do some crazy shit like annex canada to make up for it.
>I've heard on /pol/ the civ-nat vs. the ethno-nat.Another important divide is anti-colonial "nationalism" (more properly called national liberation forces) versus chauvinist imperialist "nationalism"
>>2398950> If everyone stays strictly within the borders of their country.good thing no country ever tries to expand its borders
>No cross boarder trader or interaction, every country will be able to see how good and self-sufficient they can make themselves.did you even read my post before responding with this idealist dreck?
what if in my fantasy nobody ever left their metaphysical nationaloid boxes that were invented after the treaty of westphalia
Where's our "revolution of dignity"?
Or even some fucking dignity but no, nary a crumb
And I know you fucks ain't listening but
This is such a waste. You got a shot in the arm with the heightened activity with this or that habbening or series of happenings (of which the majority I have already more or less forgot).
Now look at this. Not like I expected anything else anyway.
>>2398975At this point things have deteriorated to the point they may just be unfixable. Except some (not very) titanic effort which is way beyond the reach of the current team, realistically.
I would point out this or that but it would take time away from literally anything else.
>>2398953 Communist China. Vietnam. Communist Korea. Cuba. System of exploitation has been abolished in these nations.
>>2398962The hatian soils must be fed with the fuel of fatty corpses ameriKKKans and gusanos
>>2398982People's democratic dictatorship in all instance
>>2398992Read Marx. Then read Lenin.
The truth shall set you free.
>>2399001Democracy is not some magic thing. That is the liberal trap.
Form does not equal content. I don't care to explain further.
But as I feel very nice today, let me search up this text.
https://www.lacan.com/conceptsym.htmIt's ofc somewhere between dense and overly complicated, being Badiou but I remember enjoying the text quite some years ago. So it should be perfectly understandable in the main for beginner to intermediate level readers.
If you will not read, I cannot help you and it is better for me to spend my time elsewhere.
It's really nothing personal.
>>2399011Dicktatorship has a different meaning in Marxism than regular liberal ideology (in which, no, it is not specific but perniciously unspecific, boiling down to we are democratic, they are not). You need to learn the first thing about propaganda before starting out on communist / marxist ideas.
>>2398902Uhm did you consider that proles need to suffer so that a revolution happens, btw that there wasn't a revolution in Libya after it's collapse 14 years ago means nothing.
Proles suffering = communism
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