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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Not reporting is bourgeois


 

Why do you communists cry about american sanctions on cuba when you dont even believe in the free market? Also isnt communism supposed to be self-sufficient why would cuba need to trade with an imperialist power like america in the first place?

- It doesn‘t matter if we believe in the free market when the larger economic system in which a country like Cuba is embedded in works that way
- Whether or not you can or should be self-sufficient is up to circumstances. A country like Cuba attempting to be will be worse off, simply due to its country’s circumstances
- The sanctions don‘t just prohibit trade with the US

>Also isnt communism supposed to be self-sufficient
tmk only Juche explicitly makes autarky a prerequisite for socialist construction.

>>2400661
You don't have to be too smart to know that a tropical island like cuba lacks the natural resources to be some semblance of a geopolitical player in a part of the game field where everyone is hostile to it. The issue with the sanctions is not about free market, but imperialism, which is global not only about cuba. Cuban revolution transformed cuba from a usa puppet state-resort island-raw materials hub into a sovereign land where working people are much better off, a miracle that usa let that slip under its nose, it's a shame that the american empire won't allow the project to continue, but me as a communist didnt expect anything better, i would do the same to them pigs motherfuckers or even worse (not the american people, but the people who run the game).

>>2400669
>>2400676
>>2400685
So it seems "communist" country's still rely on the labors of capitalist exploitation but it's okay because they outsourced it to thirdparties.

socialism is when no trade, and communism is when autarky. -t. karloman marksus

its just cope to explain why cuba is a failing state

File: 1753283356272.png (47.92 KB, 829x257, 576758.png)

>>2400661
>Why do you communists cry about american sanctions on cuba when you dont even believe in the free market?
See Marx quote. The only reason the U.S. government maintains the embargo on Cuba is because it doesn't like a communist government in its "backyard." It's willing to do business with other communist governments but feels it has a right to intervene in the affairs of other states in the Western Hemisphere. This is called the Monroe Doctrine.

>Also isnt communism supposed to be self-sufficient

Some communist regimes behaved like that and articulated a theory of autarkic national communism, which had a lot to do with the circumstances they were in, but I don't view it as a general principle, no, and it's a recipe for stagnation over the long term because the general trend in human civilization is towards the world unification of production according to my own reading of Marxist theory imo

Mr Trump tear down that embargo, the cuban people deserve their treats

youre right, as a communits i couldnt care less about bourgeois nation states competing with one another

>capitalism is when trade
Trade far predates capitalism

>>2400691
Yes that is the contradiction of "socialism in one country". Resolving those contradictions is the task of socialism

>>2400661
>Also isnt communism supposed to be self-sufficient
No. It's literally impossible for a country like Cuba to be completely self-sufficient.

Also this >>2400763

>>2400763
oh, so socialism supports commodity production after all

>Why do you communists cry about american sanctions on cuba when you dont even believe in the free market?
<Why is sleeping 8 hours healthy, if water is wet?

>>2400785
>lol gotcha!!!

retard. trade in the sense of exchange of use values predates commodity production. commodity production, i.e. production for exchange, predates capitalism. capitalism is what we call it when the totality of social reproduction is dependent on the reproduction of capital, and yes commodity exchange contains the "germ" of capital. but capital is distinguished it is commodities acquired towards the ends of further more profitable exchange, not for use.

even in some vision of a hypothetical communist world, there is no reason whatsoever there wouldnt be a need to exchange useful things depending on disparities in regional conditions and various contingencies. the idea is that this would take the form of cooperative planning in accordance with general social need and ability instead of carried out according to the prerogatives of a small class of gamblers.

the more relevant point as to why youre an idiot is that no one thinks we live in some hypothetical communist world right now, and the actually existing way in which trade is conducted is through the circuits of capital reproduction. history does not stop at the arbitrary borders decided for a state, or you may as well as why the US and Britian needed to expand their markets so widely if capitalism was superior a system.

>>2400832
so socialism has a prehistorical form of barter as its model?

>loaded question type thread
>why do [entire group of people who all act differently]
>supposedly "cry" [thing i made up]
>about blah blah blah
why haven't you hung yourself yet?

>>2400850
are you done crying, now?

File: 1753291913191.png (7.16 MB, 2636x2636, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2400767
umm your answer makes too much sense I just want to angrily state that you're "crying" and ask a bunch of loaded questions design to make me feel smug

>>2400851
nobody will be crying except you when jannies remove your shit bad faith JAQoff troll thread and you use that as evidence of persecution

>>2400858
oh, i see that youre still in your tantrum.

>>2400835
going to pretend this obviously a bad faith question.

no, no society is known to have used barter as its primary model of supplementing production. marx, as well as the political economists and historians he was drawing from, were wrong about that, largely due to limited and incorrect information about ancient and prehistoric society.

prehistoric societies used a variety of models. as far as we can know from archaeological and anthropological evidence, exchange of use value usually took a "ritualized" form: mutual but non-simultaneous exchange of gifts, holding of feasts, marriage compacts & adoption as means of extending obligations to others, as well as barter. a network of varied obligations in accordance with a web of familial and inter-familial relations, supplemented by simple barter when necessary. barter as its normally concieved, as simply a primitive form of commodity production in which you (intentionally or otherwise) produce a surplus and use that surplus to acquire necessary good, was very rarely a central part of primitive economy and was more of a circumstantial stopgap. there are exceptions, but it was much more common e.g. for a culture to deplete their surplus all at once in a feast or grand sacrifice as a display of prosperity & influence to their own group and their neighbors, which would tighten the bonds of obligation they primarily relied on. that is, the group down the river invites us to their glorious feasts and arranges marriages with us, if they have had a bad hunting season we'll bring them some extra to maintain that bond, with the knowledge it will be reciprocated and also boost our credibility among other groups. in most cases by far, intentionally producing a surplus for the purpose of exchange didnt make sense, because people didnt want to do that, the basic necessities of life and culture could be crafted by your own group and no one wanted to work extra hours in the day to produce a bunch of extra arrowheads and pots on the off chance that maybe someone else would have a shortage of those and surplus of something else and want to make an equal exchange. thats not to say it never happened, it certainly did, but it was a circumstantial occurence that served as an exceptional supplement to the standard methods of exchange.

which is to say, no, socialism is not aiming for primitive barter, not least of all because primitive barter was never (or at least very rarely) the foundation of primitive economics. the "aim" is that exchange for need is done through rational planning of need that takes into account respective capacities for production and degree of mutual dependence. primitive economies and capitalism also accomplish this, but the mechanism through which they accomplish it (ritual, family bonds; the market) are prone to contradictions that inevitably lead to severe conflicts and lack. the thesis of socialist economics is that rational planning done by the people responsible for production could itself be the mechanism of exchange, so as to minimize conflicts and lack

>>2400864
it won't work

>>2400878
so who decides what needs to be produced?

>>2400685
The problem isn't that it's tropical it's the fact it is an island. Hardly any food you probably eat comes from northern Europe.

>>2400884
Not billionaire bankers or your petit-bourgeois dad.

>>2400884
>the thesis of socialist economics is that rational planning done by the people responsible for production could itself be the mechanism of exchange

>>2400887
>petit-bourgeois dad.
?
>>2400888
>the people responsible for production
who are these people?

>>2400889
the people making things. the people mining the metal, the people driving it to the warehouse, the people picking it up, the people refining it, the people shaping it into various specialized parts, the people assembling various specialized parts from various supply lines into more specialized products.

and yes, how to effectively and efficiently organize a society in a way in which these many different people in different places can reasonably and meaningfully be involved with the planning of production, is a legitimate question, one that socialists regularly disagree about, and its something to be worked out. the premise of socialism is that it is possible to work out and should be worked out. if you want to do your debate club routine, you should start with trying to argue that it is impossible

>>2400900
so you want to have a socialist society…
yet you dont even know what socialism is?

>>2400908
are you a child or just an idiot?

Have you read anything Marx ever? Where did you come to the conclusion that trading under communism is bad

>>2400917
here are your words:
>the planning of production, is a legitimate question, one that socialists regularly disagree about, and its something to be worked out.
implying that you havent "worked out" the plan yet.


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