Breadpill me on Algeria.
The Algerian independence struggle was exceptionally bloody. During that time, the entire global left stood in solidarity with the FLN and its goals. It was the anti-colonial struggle to end all anti-colonial struggles. However, what really became of it?
Algeria never became communist. It's largest trading partner post-independence was France, its former colonizers. Of course the Soviets provided them with support but the Algerian government joined the Non-Aligned Movement instead of becoming part of the Soviet sphere of influence. The most the USSR did for Algeria was supply them with guns.
So why didn't the anti-colonial struggle in Algeria result in socialism? Why does Algeria today have barely any relevance to the global left? The most we hear about that country is how much it beefs with Morocco over territorial lines or some shit. It's one of the largest countries in the world with mountains and a big ass desert but no vital resources? Plus every Algerian with money or an education has migrated to France or Quebec.
What went wrong, when this country had such a promising future 60 years ago?
It's all anectodic but I got some family from Algeria and their take is that the FLN top guys kinda replaced the colonial rulers with the most opportunist of them purging everyone else to solidify their grip instead of building a new society. They tried to implement a socdem welfare state early on but got broke and stopped that. Keep it mind it has been a country with a low intensity civil war for most of its existence mostly because of the aforementioned power struggles and opportunism of the ruling class and military.
>>2407500Given that the PCF was more into breaking strikes and didn't actually want to take power while sperging about muh national unity and giving full power to nazis like Papon to kill brown people until order was back it is safe to say that they were colonialist lickspittles and nit like lenin
>>2407856Xi himself studied in America and so did several of his advisors like Wang Huning. All you need is a strong counter intelligence and surveillance apparatus to ferret out traitors. Nothing wrong with people going to the West. If anything Western tourism should be encouraged as the West continues to sink into stagnation and fascism so that their propaganda stops working as people realize what a shithole capitalism creates.
>>2407857Fuck off retard if you think a post-revolution society is going to have all the blueprints for manufacturing cars, medicines, robots, etc. lying around all waiting to be taken because the bourgeoisie were nice enough to leave everything perfectly as is rather than blowing up every factory and production facility that they can on the way out while fleeing the country, you're part of the problem and contributing to an unprepared and totally un-serious socialist movement.
>>2407849>Fucking purity testing idiots always thinking they can jump straight to full communism in a single 5 year plan smh.???
i said absolutely nothing about that. it has nothing to do with purity of socialism or whatever, it is about the class dynamics of colonies and how an alliance against the metropole in the period of colonial revolution tends towards being replaced with the rule of a half-formed national bourgeouis that cynically use nationalism and formal sovereignty against the proletariat and peasantry. that is what fanon argues happens, he sees the comprador regimes of latin america as a historical example of the same tendency he was witnessing in real time as africans gained formal independence through anticolonial struggle
im very confused by your objection, it wouldnt even be particularly difficult to argue that china in some way or another provides a way out of this. a big part of what he's observing is that the middle-manager/enforcer position of the post-colonial bourgeois precludes them exercising the dynamic & productive role they performed historically in europe, so that the "national" bourgeoisie do not develop "the nation" and instead act as a subsidiary outpost of extraction and a last-stop market for offloading overproduction.
you could EASILY say that china has succeeded at motivating its own national bourgeois to actually serve their historical role and develop the productive forces. i dont necessarily AGREE with that analysis, as im a bit iffy on the orthodox marxist story of the necessarily emergent historical role of the bourgeoisie (see Ellen Miekins Wood Origin of Capitalism for great critique & alternate argument). but its incredibly to reconcile fanons explicit writing with the orthodox marxist analysis, and with the post-deng PRC's arguments of continuity with that orthodoxy
>>2407842Must…not…mention…that…Fanon…glowed…
>>2407849How dare you insult our glorious saviour Comrade Sary
>>2407974>died in the US after recieving treatment at the behest of his family and friends despite his many protestations to not die in a "nation of lynchers">had very passive contact with CIA once or twice in the 50s postwar period where the US was opportunistically assisting anticolonial movements against france & britian to consolidate their own post-war imperialist blocif you havent, you need to look into post-WW2 policy towards european colonial empires, especially in the 50s. the US was largely ambivalent towards the algerian revolution, and publicly urged france towards a more "liberal" policy. the fact that fanon had some passing, non-hostile association with members of the CIA is only evidence of fanons own relevance within and the US's ambivalent attitude towards the algerian revolution.
i mention the above not to derail into arguing over fanon but because it is relevant to the thread topic. but if anything, the screencapped passages show that fanon was not as naive as many of his contemporaries regarding the realities of a post-colonial order. he correctly saw US domination of post-colonial latin america as a precedent that predicted the way post-colonial africa would be dominated.
>>2407976see
>>2408064the tl;dr is the CIA in this period, especially in the case of colonial revolutions, wanted to keep a line open to major socialist or otherwise revolutionary figures that hadnt openly aligned with the USSR, to gauge their activities, goals, and intentions. the hope was to bring them into the US sphere of influence upon independence, or at the very least keep them neutral/have prior knowledge of their sympathies with the soviets. the CIA providing fanon with medical treatment was part of their effort to keep figures like him in their own camp. there is absolutely no indication that fanon was a real asset, let alone actually worked for, the CIA
>>2408283LOL
>>2408298They haven't been waging guerilla war for 77 years. The West Bank has essentially been a population without any hope, just tolerating the daily abuses of the IDF with nihilism, for the past several decades.
>>2408283Anon, you know that Cuba was a net exporter of revolution in the 60s showing in practice that foquism is retarded no?
Plus Oman, the Malay insurrection, etc.
>>2408069>the tl;dr is the CIA in this period, especially in the case of colonial revolutions, wanted to keep a line open to major socialist or otherwise revolutionary figures that hadnt openly aligned with the USSR, to gauge their activities, goals, and intentions. the hope was to bring them into the US sphere of influence upon independence, or at the very least keep them neutral/have prior knowledge of their sympathies with the soviets.It might blow maybe somebody's mind out there that the CIA also had contacts with Mao in the 1940s during the war with Japan and for similar reasons, and the communists would return downed U.S. pilots rescued by communist forces.
>>2408076>before the "fanon is CIA" meme spread around, people just said he was an idpol nationalist who just hated whitey or whatever, but i guess that was too easily disproven by actually reading him so the CIA angle is better to muddy the waterYes it's this.
>>2408468Qatar, Saudi, and Egypt are all calling for Hamas to disarm.
It's going to be… interesting, to say the least.
>>2408283Palestine and Algeria are like chalk and cheese.
The FLN won mostly because they were able to strategically use Algeria's terrain to their advantage. Algeria is huge geographically. When the FLN would attack a colonial outpost they would flee into the mountains.
Meanwhile, Palestine is tiny by comparison. The PLO tried doing the FLN strategy where they would attack Israel and then retreat first into Jordan and then into Lebanon after Jordan kicked them out. Now, nearly all the resistance to Israel is happening inside of Gaza, where AT LEAST 80% of the infrastructure has been utterly destroyed since Oct. 7th. I'm amazed Hamas is still able to put up something of a fight but at this point it's like watching a mother mouse fight off a gigantic snake.
Plus, the Pied-Noirs were only a million and a half people. They never saw themselves as anything but French and knew full well they were invaders/colonials. When shit got too hot the vast majority of them fled back to France. Compare that with 7.3 million Israeli Jews who feel like they have no other identity aside from "Israeli Jew" and no place they can "go back" to. The psychology is very different and that's not something you can ignore. Plus, most Israelis are ex-military and will become vicious killers at any moment.
>>2410835Yeah this dude got a lot of stuff wrong.
Another thing is the terrain argument: a lot of internet generals usually overestimate geography when it comes to military conflict, think how the ziggies were calculating a swift Russian victory since Ukraine is a bunch of plains.
In actuality two things make a comparatively much weaker participant win a conflict: cost of the war for the opponent and low public opinion among the adversary's populace. That was the case with this war as the French government - even though it continually had the upper hand militarily - spent so many lives and so much money doing atrocities it saw massive protests in Paris and even collapsed. It's not unlike what happened in Vietnam in many ways.
I will spitball a little but I'll theorize that the main reasons Palestine has been incapable of "winning" against Israel is that Israel is propped up by US which makes the cost of fighting the insurgency a non issue and in turn keeps the public opinion high. Cracks are appearing in the US public opinion though partly thanks to the relentless work of pro Palestinian orgs and activists, and proles protesting for them, which means there is hope still.
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