/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

Wellness camps are unironically much more in-line with the Social Model of Disability.

>>2413221
Yeah i feel these too
Similar with how the USSR had public sanatoriums as a form of socialized healthcare for TB patients i like the idea of wellness camps as socialized healthcare for autistic persons

On one hand, I see the wellness camps as being just another way for the Trump Administration to force disabled people to work. The entire ideology of Trumpism is "BE MORE PRODUCTIVE" which is what the tariffs, attacks on immigrants, and provisos to Medicare and Medicaid that say you have to work in order to qualify for it are about.

On the other hand, OP is 110% correct that most parents of level 3 (or profound) autistic kids should not be raising them. These kids require a lifetime of uncompensated domestic labour, 99% of it falling on the mother. We're talking about kids who need to be watched 24/7 so they don't hurt themselves or someone else, can't articulate their wants and needs, have no real sense of danger, have issues with going to the bathroom, are prone to aggression, prone to seizures, and have many other serious issues. And when mom gets too old and can't do the job anymore the kid is basically fucked. These kids need to be taken care of by professionals only. Not their parents or siblings. The old asylums were awful but forcing care for the disabled on to families is arguably worse in many ways.

>>2413218
>Am I the only one here who is not opposed to RFK's idea of wellness camp for autistic kids from a Left wing perspective?

Go fuck yourself, mate.

>>2413218
Depends on the actual conditions of the camps.

I hope you mean a „wellness camp“ in theory and not whatever the Trump administration suggests. Also, it pisses me the fuck off when people‘s arguments rest on a superlative „Oh I don‘t think they are going to be euthanasia camps“ yeah there are plenty of other things to criticize such an idea for. It doesn‘t only start getting bad once euthanasia is involved. Lastly you are speaking about it in an idealized manner. Institutions for the mentally ill or elderly are notorious for having rampant abuse that goes unnoticed in the public eye. Yet again, you must be speaking about it in theory from a charitably idealized perspective, because you are an idiot if you actually mean „wellness camps“ under Trump or „wellness camps“ under capitalist liberal democracy at all.

>The current model of autistic therapy which focused on a collaboration between psychiatrists and nuclear family units is kinda reactionary
Good thing you shoehorned „reactionary“ in there, now we can dismiss employing a therapist for a family as evil. Why even the „nuclear family“ part? Does employing a therapist for your autistic kid require you to have a stay at home wife and a breadwinner husband? Or are you speaking about the separate fact that this society has a patriarchal family model? You really are just trying to shoehorn this in there to make it seem evil when a family is hiring a therapist for an autistic child. It doesn‘t require a „nuclear family“ to begin with, it could be two gay moms in a polycule relationship who adopted an autistic kid.

>but above all just doesn't work.
Show me statistical evidence that a family getting a therapist for their autistic child doesn‘t improve the child‘s outcome.

>Most parents are not well equipped to handle an autistic kid
Which is why they should hire a therapist.

>and often resorted to either abusing or neglecting them.
So in your scenario they aren‘t hiring a therapist to help their child and are instead abusing it? How does that delegitimize the usage of a therapist?

>It makes more sense, both from a humanist and economic perspective, to pool these kids in a camp where a specialized staff of professionals will help them in a controlled environment.
I love how your post simply consists of buzzword descriptors (left wing, reactionary, humanist) while devoid of any realistic reasoning for how such an idea would unfold. These kids would be send off to unburden ignorant households, the autistic kid would lose any semblance of autonomy over their life out of a benevolently framed imprisonment and then they end up abused in some institution, which has always everywhere been the case where there are institutions for the vulnerable.

>ANOTHER thread about autism
kill yourself

>>2413240
Nobody wants to raise high needs autistic kids because of how much work they require. Plus, once the parents get too old, become disabled themselves, and can no longer care for this kid the kid gets shipped to a group home. There's also no evidence therapies like ABA work.

>>2413218
>from a Left wing perspective
meaningless rubbish

>>2413265
It's not about RFK but more about the Social Model of Disability applied IRL.

>>2413260
The OP speaks of autistic kids. You are introducing a specification if you say high needs autistic kids and if that‘s what the conversation is about it should have been said so at the beginning. Additionally, the OP speaks about „wellness camp“ by the Trump administration which isn‘t just about high needs autistic kids but autistic kids in general and also about sending them there against the family‘s will. I am not against having institutions at all that can take care of autistic children, I‘m against framing all degrees of autism as the same (you may not do that but some people do), I‘m against them being send there against their will, I‘m against it being run by fascist morons like the Trump administration and I‘m against evaluating such an idea uncritically and being marketed to with mere buzzwords (humanist, left wing wellness camp, yeah right).

>>2413218
>am i the only one here who agrees with <hitlerite trump admin shit> in a hypothetical universe where it was leftist?
mate it doesn't matter they're not going to do what you want with it. it will be a haven for abuse and forced labor.

More proof that leftoidism is just vibes.

>>2413223
Tuberculosis has nothing to do with autism, not even my a thousand miles

I have a high functioning autistic child and am possibly an undiagnosed person with high functioning autism.

OP do you realize the diagnostic umbrella for what constitutes "autism spectrum disorder" has widened so much that it encompasses people that used to fall under "Asperger's" and are "high functioning autists" who can live by themselves and pay their bills and hold jobs?

"Severe" or "Profound" autism is closer to what can be characterized as a severe intellectual disability, but even so I don't trust a neurotypical-centric society run by corporate profit-hungry psychopaths to decide what constitutes a "mentally healthy" person since that almost always comes down to willingness to unquestioningly cooperate with the reactionaries in power.

>>2413284
>"Severe" or "Profound" autism is closer to what can be characterized as a severe intellectual disability,
That's still autism and that's the kind of autistic person who would benefit from these farms.

>>2413274
When did RFK say Aspies were going to be the ones sent to the farms, or that autistic kids were going to be taken against their families' wishes?

>>2413284
The idea boils down to allistics who know fuck all about autism to send autistics to some camp against their will while they think autistics are subhuman and couldn‘t possibly make a sound decision for themselves. It‘s the tyranny of an ignorant privileged demographic. It‘s also white people deciding for black people it‘s better for them to be slaves or men deciding for women it‘s better for them to be housewives with no electoral rights under some vulgar conception of what this other is, how they function and what‘s best for them. This always come with a benevolent rationalization.

>>2413291
>allistics who know fuck all about autism
Because the only way to do research about X disorder is by having it, obviously. Better tell scientists they were doing it all wrong.

>>2413291
Something has to be done about high needs autistic kids though. We're talking about autistics who need 24/7 care. That's not the same thing as an eccentric Aspie who loves anime and video games.

>>2413293
Pretty sure Trump and their buddies are liberal, actually.

>>2413294
No, it‘s about being open to being corrected by the side spoken about.

>>2413294
honestly i kind of feel like it should be illegal to practice as a mental health professional unless you've had some personal experience with mental illness. my personal experience has led me to have very little respect for shrinks

>>2413294
You are naïve to say „science“ and think we have an objective outcome. This is about the institution of science under capitalism that conceives and evaluates people based on usefulness to capitalism, while most people are ignorant about the subject leaving them open for propaganda by the power‘s that be who shape this institution of science (and not „science“ in an ideal platonic sense, that doesn‘t exist and never has).

>>2413298
ok

>>2413303
Of course the memelord knows jackshit and can only speak in vibes.

>>2413301
>uhhh science is like,,,,, subjective broooo,,, because of capitalism and sheit,,
lol read marx dipshit. embarrassing fucking retard

>>2413304
you VILL derail yet another thread into bickering about the definition of fascism

>>2413296
You are saying this as if nothing has been done thus far. There already are institutions to send autistic children to, which makes it especially weird to then start venerating RFK wellness camps.

>>2413305
You clearly know jackshit about Marxism if you keep referring to science as a platonic ideal instead of speaking about science as a socially realized process under specific social relations.

>>2413307
Derail what? OP is a left-wing moron and so are the replies.

>this bourgeois policy is good! and leftist!
<no it's bad! and fascist!
Riveting discourse. Where's the communism?

>>2413289
>benefit from these farms
under a bourgeois dictatorship the only people who benefit are the bourgeoisie.

Here's the part of my post you not only didn't quote but ignored:

> I don't trust a neurotypical-centric society run by corporate profit-hungry psychopaths to decide what constitutes a "mentally healthy" person since that almost always comes down to willingness to unquestioningly cooperate with the reactionaries in power.

>>2413298
Liberals are perfectly willing to commit atrocities as well. Bourgeois dictatorship is fundamentally liberal.

>>2413218
The idea of an autism camp is sounds terrible, the whole point is that these people do worse in social situations and when removed from their stable lives. Many of them are also more aggressive than usual. And you know how absolutely brutal kids can be just for fun. There is no reason to think that just because these kids are autistic they won't be just as cruel towards the most vulnerable among themselves.
>a specialized staff of professionals will help them in a controlled environment
Everywhere kids are gathered, they largely construct their own social environment. It will be so unless you have as many staff as there are kids, and that's just not happening.

There is, of course, also the problem of insane Christian Sharia adherents sending their kids to mutilation camps without as much as a thought for if it will actually help, how the kid will feel, or even with active contempt for their child. Many of these kids won't even be autistic, without a doubt. But that's not a disability problem, that's a reaction problem. These same people are the ones who create the most disabled people since they refuse to get an abortion because it's "God's miracle", and then a few years later "God's test". The materialist approach to disability is anathema to both of these seemingly opposite, but in truth the same ways these people act.

What people who say "allistic" unironically don't want to get through their skulls is that autism is an illness. It's just that they happened to have a tolerable form of it. Just because there are cases of HIV that people can live with reasonably well as long as they get their treatment doesn't mean that HIV shouldn't be eliminated. This is not an attack on people who have HIV currently. Saying the same about autism shouldn't be controversial. Complete elimination of all disability is a goal for socialists the same way that elimination of all poverty and all illiteracy are, it's just that elimination of all disability requires such astronomical amounts of research and development that no society came remotely close to it yet and so it hasn't been on the agenda.

Asking "how to we treat autistic people?" is the same category of question as "how do we treat illiterate people?". With a level of respect and accommodation, I guess? But the real answer is to make sure they don't exist at all. Any scheme we come up with is temporary, it will never be good.

This is, at the end of the day, one of the ways radical liberals differ from communists. Radical liberals don't have the sense that the current state of things is to be done away with, they want to make it more tolerable. Communism, on the other hand, is the movement to abolish the present state of things. There is no "human nature". Radical liberals are always, in truth, less radical than capitalism itself. Capitalism does away with all things solid, all idols.

>>2413439
>There is no reason to think that just because these kids are autistic they won't be just as cruel towards the most vulnerable among themselves.
Bullying is a function of hierarchical thinking which autistics usually don‘t adhere to. Autistics also have a stronger justice sensitivity.

>>2413439
>Asking "how to we treat autistic people?" is the same category of question as "how do we treat illiterate people?". With a level of respect and accommodation, I guess? But the real answer is to make sure they don't exist at all. Any scheme we come up with is temporary, it will never be good.
>This is, at the end of the day, one of the ways radical liberals differ from communists. Radical liberals don't have the sense that the current state of things is to be done away with, they want to make it more tolerable. Communism, on the other hand, is the movement to abolish the present state of things.

I find it really funny how you twisted overcoming social relations through revolutions as opposed to reforming them into justifying eugenics. That isn‘t communism.

>What people who say "allistic" unironically don't want to get through their skulls is that autism is an illness.
It literally is not an illness.

>>2413218
Nazism is not left wing, so these camps can never be left-wing. Hang yourself in public as soon as possible please.