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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Not reporting is bourgeois


 

honestly it is more economically progressive than the system china currently has, and i think it is a system that people on all parts of the political aisle can come to see the value of. imo the notion of subsidiarity is a doctrine that not only conforms better to the limitations of human cognition (see: dumbar's number) but promotes a more ethical economical life. the segregation of classes afforded by extreme wealth disparities permit the ruling class to behave in a way utterly disconnected from the rest of society. personally i am more left-leaning so believe that companies should be liquidated into worker coops.

It's third positionist

isnt it catholic, like integralism?
i heard G.K. chesterton was a distributist.

>>2416993
>Social Democracy
>but with religious spooks
Dumb LARP.

>>2416996
yes, so it can appeal to people on the right by pointing out the catholic principles which motivated its development

Catholic supremacism.


File: 1754352588475.jpeg (170.15 KB, 1080x602, stfu lib.jpeg)

>worker coops

i think christianity is cringe


It is a very dated concept but it is possible to modernize it with the right technology but why? There is even older ideas like Epicurean communes that have more value to them.

>>2417660
>zionist
no, Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is within us, not in palestine
>pedo
ammon hill is literally a satanist
>hated goyim
Jesus calls the roman soldier the most faithful servant; he comes to save the gentiles from the jews
>dogs
yes, he is making the point that gentiles are more faithful than jews

>>2417656
i love the beautiful, the good, and the true

Catholics be like:
>Wow these Bolsheviks are really agitating the workers. Let's try to find a compromise…
>Hmmm…not Social Democracy though…that's too secular.
>What if we took Social Democracy and called it by another name instead?
<GENIUS


>>2417810
Jesus is λόγος
aristotle confers in metaphysics book 1, that plato was inspired by heraclitus, and heraclitus introduced the concept of λόγος into greek philosophy. plato's ἀγαθόν is λόγος.

>>2416993
>what are our thoughts on distributism?
Proto-fascists. Distributism was explicitly created to counter Marxism.
>honestly it is more economically progressive than the system china currently has
You just can't help yourselves, can you.

>>2418613
>jesus is logos
Hegel's Absolute makes the logos secular in the sense that you can have an active and universal thinking subject without invoking a specific religion. You could make Jesus the Absolute or the Pure Being if you'd like, but Marxism doesn't need to be merged with Christianity

>>2419557
Jesus is also a worldly figure in how he is sublated into the holy spirit (the body of faith) after his resurrection:
<"He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” [matt 12:48-50]
<"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them." [matt 18:20]
<"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." [luke 17:21]

>What are our thoughts on [social fascism]
Lame thread #13958402 asking a stupid question about a moronic and fascist "third position" that nobody's ever heard of because anyone with half a brain can see it's just another excuse to continue capitalism.

>>2418728
>>2417002
>>2417845
it isnt social democracy though. all socdems want is for the poor to live a little better and have safety nets. distributists understand how important it is for everyone to own the means of production, as otherwise any reformist policies achieved by social democracy can easily be subverted by corruption

>>2417343
so how exactly do you plan on achieving cybercommunism without any transitional government before 300 fascist dictators in a row. explain this to me without sounding mad or blatantly ignoring history and current events

>>2417012
>>2417653
i am not a christian. many of the core principles are agreeable without any appeal to religion at all

>>2418728
>>2419585
>You just can't help yourselves, can you.
but am i actually wrong or are we just coping?

>>2429903
The million-dollar question of every niche ideology is if its hypothesized political economy is sustainable. How would the wide breadth of small/medium sized worker coops distributism desires, economically compete (against both internal competition and the wider global market) lacking economies of scale of capitalist multi-nationals or vertically integrated state monopolies. How would the inherent competitive pressure to merge be suppressed and how would a regulatory system to enforce this distribution of production protect itself from ideological capture.
All of these are the immediate considerations of distributism specifically and not the larger flaws of third position political economy (how is independent media kept in check from corporate influence? how will the system defend itself from internal/global capitalist forces acting in rational competition to undermine the system to their own interest).

The practical answer upon contact with reality is a combative party-state apparatus with control of the commanding heights of all levers of power to enforce the desired order. Upon which all these various political deviations subsume into a vulgar version of China anyway. Failure to consider how a hypothesized ideology reals with the frictions of reality is playing with dolls.

>>2429929
>protect itself from ideological capture
if massive corporations have been liquidated and the imperial core has been converted first, there are far less vectors of ideological capture to begin with. the realpolitik of some peasant shithole with no developed productive forces isnt the same as a first world country

you cant just copy all the notes of china and russia when their material conditions were completely different before their revolutions

>>2429945
to add to this, even if i lend that a having a party guide the development of the productive forces is important, this does not need the revival of the bourgeois, and the government could contract these coops if it were really necessary. i dont believe elements of a command economy would really conflict with subsidiarity though i could be wrong about that

>>2429903
Man, shut the fuck up and stop fucking lying.

>defends private property

>muh small shopkeepers
>muh anti-trust laws
>the fucking guild system
>explicitly against common and government ownership
It's Jeffersonian Social Democracy with religious spooks. Fuck off.

>>2429962
Sorry, you must have missed the latest developments of Communist theory.
>FOLLOW THE PARTY, START YOUR BUSINESS
isn't just a meme. Modern Communism understands the importance of entrepreneurship.
>>the fucking guild system
Do you know why Mercantile theorists favored the guild system? Its because they understood that rampant free markets is inefficient and leads to overproduction. If anything, your blind adherence to Anti-Market dogmas is akin to being pro-guild system. But understanding the genuine arguments used by the Mercantile theorists and integrating them into a new economic system while also transcending their shortcomings is not negative at all.

>>2429945
>if massive corporations have been liquidated and the imperial core has been converted first
>IF
this 'if' is the size of the Burj Khalifa Jesus Christ. What is to be done to achieve this state of affairs so utterly and completely that its an assumed given of your political model?
As of the present the superstructure of the imperial core already goes scorched earth against mild succdem reformists and is throttling freedom of speech over a failure to control the narrative around the imperial frontier of Israel. How will this distributist movement combat institutional repression due to its existential threat to accumulated private property. Or maintain ideological discipline from its own potential rightist and leftist deviations.

You are going to have to write your own manifesto on how to achieve this immense conditional before building a model of how your economy will function without existential competition. Or surrender to a more practical reality that any insurgent ideology will face siege conditions if (ever) it seizes some state apparatus of some part of the world. resulting in compromises towards existing models which, turns out, have at least an empirical track record.

All third position thought collapses under scrutiny of achieving itself against opposition into fascist vanguard, Leninist party state or subsumed as capitalist reformers.

File: 1755032447028.png (333.18 KB, 479x355, ClipboardImage.png)

1. Anarchism, in the course of the 35 to 40 years (Bakunin and the International, 1866–) of its existence (and with Stirner included, in the course of many more years) has produced nothing but general platitudes against exploitation.

These phrases have been current for more than 2,000 years. What is missing is
(alpha) an understanding of the causes of exploitation;
(beta) an understanding of the development of society, which leads to socialism;
(gamma) an understanding of the class struggle as the creative force for the realisation of socialism.

2. An understanding of the causes of exploitation. Private property as the basis of commodity economy. Social property in the means of production. In anarchism–nil.

Anarchism is bourgeois individualism in reverse. Individualism as the basis of the entire anarchist world outlook. {Defence of petty property and petty economy on the land. Keine Majorität. [No majority]. Negation of the unifying and organising power of the authority.}

3. Failure to understand the development of society–the role of large-scale production–the development of capitalism into socialism. (Anarchism is a product of despair. The psychology of the unsettled intellectual or the vagabond and not of the proletarian.)

4. Failure to understand the class struggle of the proletariat. Absurd negation of politics in bourgeois society. Failure to understand the role of the organisation and the education of the workers. Panaceas consisting of one-sided, disconnected means.

5. What has anarchism, at one time dominant in the Romance countries, contributed in recent European history?

– No doctrine, revolutionary teaching, or theory.
– Fragmentation of the working-class movement.
– Complete fiasco in the experiments of the revolutionary movement (Proudhonism, 1871; Bakuninism, 1873).
– Subordination of the working class to bourgeois politics in the guise of negation of politics.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1905/nov/24.htm

>>2429972
>You are going to have to write your own manifesto on how to achieve this immense conditional before building a model of how your economy will function without existential competition
of course. i intend to do so. what is needed is an economic coalition of businesses committed to the vision. ultimately what the fascists have always had was capital. capital needs to be amassed or it is impossible to compete. this is just reality

>>2429962
you can have widespread ownership of the mop without it being common or government ownership. a social democrat would be more inclined to accept something like ubi, but this is merely giving money to keep afloat. without any actual capital, they have little concrete means of fighting back in the case of subversions through massive corporate interests. moreover, social democracy does not care about making sure power does not get centralized in various economic entities, so the subversion of their legal institutions would be inevitable

i personally would prefer all businesses to be democratic rather than have small shopkeepers or whatever. people will have a healthier relation to their work if they share in the ownership of their businesses

>>2429996
not sure why you are arguing about anarchism but ok

>>2431181
>economic coalition of businesses committed to the vision
…a coalition not only economic but also political, dedicated to growing soft power and shifting mass consciousness


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