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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1755009209671.png (953.43 KB, 786x1076, 1751822954273.png)

 

What's the LeftyPol CONSENSUS on PARECON? It's a libertarian socialist decentralized economy system that tries to avoid the centrally planned flaws and market flaws, radically democratic and all? I thinks is good alternative for central planned socialism.

https://participatoryeconomy.org/

We’re a nominally anti-Nazi website, sorry!

sounds extremely fascist no thanks

🙄 Contrary to what vibes-based analysis by retards would tell you, It's roughly the same as what's in TANS. And we already have the /CYBERCOM/ threads, so this thread does not need to exist. Go here: >>2249875

>>2429542
>>2429582
>>2429588
How do you explain this people thinking economy democracy is facism(nazism)? Do this people think Cockshott is a nazi?

centralization is based tho

>libertarian socialist
Time to grow up pal

>>2429596
>authoritarian socialism is… LE GOOD!

No

>>2429598
>authoritarian socialism is… LE GOOD!
Yes. Name me a single libertarian socialist society that lasted more than 1 year outside of an active warzone.

>>2429595
concentrating too much power in a single place or in someone is bound to give birth to totalitarian schizos and retarded like Stalin and Mao

>>2429601
Stalin did nothing wrong. Mao did nothing wrong. Seethe harder.

>>2429594
Utopian socialism is just Nazism for people who aren’t honest about the consequences of their utopia
>>2429598
Every state in existence is by necessity “authoritarian”, it’s a meaningless buzzword used by liberals

>>2429601
>totalitarian
OH NO NO NO AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>2429603
Yeah, they did actually, Stalin and Mao were extremely retarded and schizo with to much power in their hands, literally the people came after them had to undo their retarded policies, if was so good people would keep acting like them, keep coping and seething and start screming "liberal" or "revisionits" as much you want.

>>2429604
>Utopian socialism is just Nazism for people who aren’t honest about the consequences of their utopia
Wrong. The Utopian Socialists like the Owenites were not fascist. They had the goal of abolishing private property and were not fanatic nationalists or racists. Stop calling anything you don't like fascism you retards.

>>2429604
>utopian socialism
>nazi

KeK, the absolute state of this citizen, lmao.

>>2429606
When the revolution comes I'll enjoy putting a bullet in your retarded liberal revisionist head and raping your sister or mother you kulak.

>>2429610
WOW, such a nice compassionate heart warming defender of socialism right here.

Kek, then the retarded wonder why people don't like Stalinoids and Maoist, keep coping and seethe retarded, Stalin and Mao lost, only schizo like you thinks there are cool.

>>2429607
It literally is, the ideal of utopian socialism is rural agrarian communes of “living space” for the chosen volk while the races of men deemed “reactionary” are enslaved and exterminated to fulfill your vision. The only difference between this and the doctrine of the NSDAP is that the Nazis were upfront about their intentions
>abolish private property
Never read a word of Marx I take it

That is the worst way you could've described it but yeah it's a good strategy to aim toward. I suspect China is making it's way toward it.

>>2429613
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. You are so wrong in so many ways I don't even have time to explain every way that you are wrong.

>>2429613
>>2429613
>everything that doesn't fit into my particular vision of socialism is NAZI!

>>2429615
You lost dumbass

>>2429616
One we’re communists not socialists. Two yes it’s an objective fact that Nazism was a branch of utopian socialism spawned from anarchists and neopagan freaks

>>2429620
>anarchism
>nazi

Jesus, I don't think you understand what you saying at all, you're just a dude calling everything you don't like "nazi"

>>2429614
>China
>libertarian socialism

Uh?

>>2429622
He's making a very clear and consice argument for why he thinks utopian socialism is similar or equivalent to nazism. Are you to dumb to understand that and argue against it?

I stopped reading at "federations of self-managing workplaces" and "federations of self-managing neighbourhoods"

>>2429598
>Authoritarian socialism
Again, it's time to grow up pal

>>2429629
What's hes doing is just lumping together different things and calling "nazi" because he doesn't like it

>>2429631
Why?

im not particularly convinced.

>>2429640
It has the same root in idealism dumbass, that's what he's talking about. The individualistic utopian idealism that pressuposes a sort of voluntaristic actionability to change society through personal will. I don't agree with him either, but they're not just pulling it out their ass. They're making an argument

>>2429629
Except he's 100% wrong because the utopian socialists were pacifists and he's painting them as some Lebensraum-wanting genocidal creatures. Fuck off tard.

>>2429641
It will be very inefficient, there will be a lot of fragmentation, and nothing will get done, specially in large-scale projects (going to the space, building cross-continental internet cables, fusion nuclear stations), centralization is based as >>2429595 said.

>>2429652
Nazism and anarchism also share ideological forefathers, Georges Sorel and Else Christensen being just two of many examples

>>2429662
So… central planning… le GOOD actually?

>>2429657
The Nazis were also pacifists. It’s pretty easy to make a show of being a pacifist when you don’t believe the people you’re exterminating are human, so all wars can either be framed as defensive or casual pest control

>>2429594
How do you explain to people who say Gouda cheese is fascism that it isn't. With some people you have to give up and move on.
>>2429601
That's why institutional guarantees like citizen juries (and jury nullification!) are key.

>>2429668
Lately "facism" and "nazi" are throw around a lot by leftist, the word has become meanless when retarded use "facism" for everything they don't like, mommy doesn't let them smoke pot everyday in her house? Guess what mommy is a "facist", any type of limits to one's behavior, even downright criminal or self destructive is describe as "facism" by those people.

File: 1755015083230.jpg (389.36 KB, 1600x1000, 195999-501808447.jpg)

Oh my god, shut the fuck up you tards, anon makes a thread for meanginful discussion and the debate addict chimps immediatelly use it as an excuse to start throwing feces at each other.

From the little I read on the topic, it seems like a more detailed model of cybercommunism discussed in the general. Even calling it "decentralised" planning seems disputable, since central plan is made based on decentralised input.

>>2429672
There is no productive discussion to be had with anti-communists, it’s really that simple

>>2429673
Then stop talking with then and start contributing to thread topic.

>>2429675
The thread topic IS anti-communism and glorifies it even

>>2429677
Your ideological purism is stupid and not welcomed.

>>2429657
They are comparable in the sense that they were both anti marxist, rejected class struggle, often glorified small traditional agrarian communities and business owners and sought a transformation of society through capitalist reform. Again, I also don't necessarily agree with the anon, but I understand what he's talking about

>>2429614
Why do you suspect it?

>>2429688
The utopian socialisfs supported worker cooperatives not capitalists retard.

>>2429688
I think is a strange idea to lump togheter old utopian socialism with nazism just because of few similarities, if you go by that route then some things the soviet did are like what nazi did too about how to manage the economy.


>>2429693
Utopian socialist is firstly an umbrella term that didn't just refer to people who wanted worker coops lmao. Primarily they were reformists, they rejected class struggle and thought that the capitalists could be worked with and would willingly change society with them. One could argue that what that looks like in practice is nazism or fascism

>>2429696
I generally agree, that's why I reject the comparison as well. But to be fair, it's not just a few similarities. You can't really make the same comparison towards MLism because it is decidedly not anti Marxist or reformist, unlike nazism and utopianism. You can make other comparisons though I suppose

>>2429704
>>2429704
What's so bad about this idea? Why centraloids rejects participatory economy?

>>2429711
Because if you base your society on volunteering it will get taken advantage of by people who will do the minimum effort or not work at all

>>2429729
And this comment is relevant to the model as proposed by Participatory Economy Project how?

>>2429601
CIA

>>2429625
Well that's why I said it's not a good way to describe it. You could make a libsoc arguement for parecon, but that doesn't make parecon libsoc.
>>2429691
Well it sounds like anarcho-syndicalism and I know China has a lot of workers cooperatives.

>>2429667
>the social Darwinists who constantly said everything is a permanent state of struggle and conflict and war were pacifists
"Defensive" wars aren't pacifist at all either

>>2429662
>>2429666
Centralization isn't the same thing as interconnectivity. Large scale projects are always combinations of centralized and decentralized planning and management.

what the fuck happened to this thread? so many low effort shitposters. it is awfully suspicious

anyways i am the op of this thread >>2416993. this system seems to address many of the concerns ive had concerning the balance of localism and scalability. it also combines itself with cybernetic planning which i am also sympathetic to. overall i can see myself shilling

>>2431206
People don't care about niche liberarian socialist offshoots

Also anime in the op don't help

bump

When Zizek said people don't want to spend hours in meetings I imagine he had parecon in mind but hey socialism is supposed to be conscious control of humans over their product so maybe we need to learn to love the meeting.


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