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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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Not reporting is bourgeois


 

In the previous discussions with mates in leftypol, the most contentious part has been regarding Democracy.

The mainstream view on this forum is one of distrust towards Western electoral systems, holding that electoralism is nothing more than an art of misleading and deception, with greater preference for vanguardism.

Yet as a resident of China, a citizen who has been ruled by the vanguard all my life, I loathe the fact that the government fails to hear our songs and ignore our criticism and supervision.

Yeah, I can see, what is happening in Taiwan, where there is full of chaos and hardly something in progress. It's true that the western system is uneffcient and corrupt, but changeable and reviseable, different from autocracy.

Anyway, I'm sorry that a director, which you prefer, with great authority, has come into power already, in the USA, whose name is DJT.
Or, what you like is a director you like, instead of a director you dislike?
Then how can we make sure about it?

Power can change a person, from head to toes. You may like someone before ther're in charge, but you cannot take them down after they come into power. They may cheat, they may lie, but no way you can regret, withnot democracy.

How many MAGAs are there, who voted for Trump, and got upsetted by his behaviour and policy afterwards? Ones those believe in socialism and hope for a leader, is not that different from the Republicans, are they? They want a GOP, Grand Old Party as well. The mere diversity lies in the specific.

>We want no condescending saviors

>To rule us from a judgment hall;
>We workers ask not for their favors;
>Let us consult for all.
>from The Internationale

Democracy is the basis of socialism and commuinism. If it is granted, anything else follows.

PS: Some suspects that I am not Chinese but a employee to spread misinformation. I write in Chinese in the photogragh uploaded on purposs.

你好

If we had an answer to this all the world's problems would be solved

One thing I have noticed is in western societies, and I assume this is true to a greater of lesser extent in China is that even when the official wants to do a good job they are often overwhelmed by what's on their plate and make bad decisions that make things far worse in the long term in order to solve the issue on front of them

I don't know

>>2434970
*greater or lesser, not "greater of lesser"

>ignore our criticism and supervision
local authorities are like "I have power over the cosmic bureaucracy, my paperwork is God" (t-poses to assert dominance over the heavens)
>what you like is a director you like, instead of a director you dislike?
The shitlib reaciion to the Trump-Putin thing is kind of funny:
<2014 neoliberals: "Ukraine's democratically elected president is too soft on Putin, we need the CIA to overthrow him for the kind of democracy that we want"
<2025 neoliberals: "America's democratically elected president is too soft on Putin, we need the CIA to overthrow him for the kind of democracy that we want"

liberals do not want a democracy, look at how they went full totalitarian and are censoring the internet (to protect Israel?)

>>2434979
They do not while I do.
The problem is that, are you sure the elected president does act as the will of people? In my view, voters in the USA are voting for a king, all the time, instead of a representative.

>I have power over the cosmic bureaucracy, my paperwork is God

I am sorry for not understanding.

>>2435104
“voting for a king”, means voting for someone in order to get the person into power, while the power is so wide and vast like a dictator or king.
I find it strange while re-reading it, for my first tongue is not English.

>the western system is uneffcient and corrupt, but changeable and reviseable
I don't think so. Western constitutions are resistant to change
>How many MAGAs are there, who voted for Trump, and got upsetted by his behaviour and policy afterwards?
Trump, and trump supporters are a bad example because Trump's base are cult of personality. And has a huge network of propaganda, proped up by capitalist money.
>Democracy is the basis of socialism and commuinism. If it is granted, anything else follows.
Maybe, but western electoralism won't bring democracy. Aristotle a Greek philosopher made a point about elections not being democratic, but are in fact system for oligarchy. True democracy according to Aristotle is the rule of the poor, and selection by sortition. My advice is don't look to the western political systems for inspiration. You would only make the same mistakes as the late USSR did. And repeat the outcomes what the "western" systems are currently doing.

I think Kropotkin has some answers for you.

>Democracy is the basis of socialism and commuinism
<implying theres only special universal true democracy
why are radlibs so retarded

Another thing that occurs to me is that Mao expected Deng to take over and do something different and was mostly ok with it; his major regret was not getting Big Letter Democracy into the constitution

>>2434829
Gosh, democracy! That sounds swell. So regular people can vote not to live by the party's dictates? or the great man's? No. But maybe not working in factories? Well of course not that's necessary. But maybe fewer working hours? Ohohoho. How about not being conscripted? If you're lucky.

>>2434829
The people ITT are morons, I agree with you OP, at least to an extent.

I've said it before, and I'll probably say it a million times more, but the problem with "representative" politics, including Western republicanism, is that they create two distinct political "classes", politicians, and regular people. Obviously some degree of authority is necessary, but it needs to be as minimal as possible. Otherwise, those with political power can and will use it to their own ends.

>no distinction between bourgeois "democracy" and proletarian democracy
>no commentary on the class character of a given system claiming to be democratic
>no historical understanding of democracy as limited freedom/suffrage with universal suffrage being only a recent historical innovation
>no understanding that there is illusory "democracy" (political campaigns for representation) in the public sector of the nation-state without there being not even the attempt at such an illusion in the workplace

just gonna copy paste a response i had to another anon:

Marx talks about bourgeois democracy being "shallow" and "vulgar."

>Even vulgar democracy, which sees the millennium in the democratic republic, and has no suspicion that it is precisely in this last form of state of bourgeois society that the class struggle has to be fought out to a conclusion — even it towers mountains above this kind of democratism, which keeps within the limits of what is permitted by the police and not permitted by logic.


https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch04.htm

>Every demand of the simplest bourgeois financial reform, of the most ordinary liberalism, of the most formal republicanism, of the most shallow democracy, is simultaneously castigated as an "attempt on society" and stigmatized as "socialism".


<Marx in The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte (1852)



But he does not talk about democracy in and of itself as being inherently bourgeois, and stresses the need for the proletariat to "win the battle of democracy."

>[…] the first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class to win the battle of democracy.


https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm

Lenin contrasts this bourgeois, shallow, vulgar democracy with proletarian democracy:

>It is ridiculous to think that Mr. Kautsky could find in any country even one out of a thousand of well-informed workers or farm labourers who would have any doubts as to the reply. Instinctively, from hearing fragments of admissions of the truth in the bourgeois press, the workers of the whole world sympathise with the Soviet Republic precisely because they regard it as a proletarian democracy, a democracy for the poor, and not a democracy for the rich that every bourgeois democracy, even the best, actually is.


https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1918/prrk/democracy.htm

Do not listen to anons who say communism is not democratic. These anons are confused contrarians who take bourgeois society's claim to be "democratic" at face value and assume by extension that a post-capitalist society would have no collective decision making apparatus or systems of representation. Often they are reactionaries.

>>2434829
if thise anon represents chinese general ethos we are fucked


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