[ home / rules / faq / search ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / lgbt / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta ] [ wiki / shop / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]

/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
Name
Options
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password(For file deletion.)

Not reporting is bourgeois


 

22nd century historians will know less about the 21st century for certain than 20th century historians knew about, for instance, the 10th century, because AI is going to pollute academia to such a degree that it will be impossible for future generations to sort out real stuff from slop … is what I would say if I actually thought AI was going to continue development and not become a hyperinflated speculative bubble and technological dead end and historical curiosity looked back on with a mixture of pity, confusion, anger, and disgust.

good!

Ours will be a dark age because so much is on hard drives that fail with heavy use or lack of electricity or intrusion of the elements. Even if recovered, they'll be written in ancient code and require programs no one knows about anymore. We already see widespread link rot on stuff from just 10-15 years ago.

>>2437528
You started a thread for this?

Not AI the internet, CNN and all news sites have made it clear they're ok with publishing misinformation then maybe if we're lucky retracting it at first, this means that aside from major historical events micro history is going to be fully dead.

It's funny because Marx's and Engels's understanding of history was pretty fucking bad lmao, like the whole primitive communism thing is so laughable today. But I guess there ideas and mythmaking wasn't worse then most of their contemporaries.

Also yes I agree, the faster this ai bubble shit crashes down the better. Every ai executive (and related programmer) should be shot in the knees and elbows

File: 1755539061510.png (916.76 KB, 2880x2020, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2437937
> the whole primitive communism thing is so laughable today
the entire assumed sequence of modes of production is argubaly burdened by assumptions, rigid, linear, metaphysical, and reductive

>>2437937
Primitives communalism, not communism.

>yet another AI hysteria thread
jfc touch grass

>>2438003
>… is what I would say if I actually thought AI was going to continue development and not become a hyperinflated speculative bubble and technological dead end
did you finish reading the OP?

>>2438085
im shitting on the whole thread

>>2437969
>>2437937
true i agree, and also they were working very well within the information available to them at the time and did revise their own work and assumptions based on progress in those fields/their own studied (zasulich correspondence, ethnographic notebooks, etc)

>>2437969
The thing that's bothersome is that a lot of comrades will extrapolate and apply the same kind of mythical, linear thinking to historical (and current) societies, especially when dealing with neolithic (up to medieval) history, our understanding of how people lived during these periods has changed dramatically. And in a good way too.

>>2437970
My bad, thanks. My point still stands regardless though.

>>2438175
Ofcourse, although we have to add that it also shows that these ideas came from Europeans in colonial time, so it bebcomes kinda icky, especially when these things still get repeated as truth.

>>2437937
>>2438175
What would you anons recommend for a more modern version of Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State? I'd like to think there's writing on the topic that's not muh human nature disproves communism bullshit but incorporates modern anthropology.

>>2437528
Reactionary luddite strikes again.

>>2438089
fair but there's 20 /usapol/ threads in the catolog, as well as some bumplocked spammy shit. and the hysteria was a bait and switch anyway

>>2438277
on the contrary I work in an AI field and it is for this reason precisely I can see its current limitations and what an overhyped bubble it is, despite the victory of perceptron-based AI systems over earlier more idealistic attempts to create AI. Cockshott actually made a very interesting video about this recently.

>>2438234
"The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity" by David Graeber and David Wengrow is a nice book on the subject, easy to read and well sourced. It shows a much more complex and rich history of humanity and is well up to date. If anything it's an antithesis on "human nature"

>>2438234
here you go anon. marxism and primitive societies is from the 70s so is a bit antiquated in some ways and not entirely up on the state of the contemporary field but its a great summary, highly recommend it. banaji is imo the gold standard for contemporary marxist historians, but since hes a professional historian working in the field his work is aimed at this more professional academic audience

>>2438216
>we have to add that it also shows that these ideas came from Europeans in colonial time, so it bebcomes kinda icky, especially when these things still get repeated as truth.

sure but a lot of that is repeated as straight up slander. its important to learn based on the materials available even if whats available is "icky", you need to use your own judgement and read critically. see attached Marx at the Margins, another anon started a thread with the image as the OP though i doubt if they read it. it is a very useful overview of the progression of marx's thought with regard to europe/wider world

>>2438277
Another one who took the antiluddite propaganda pill like a good wageslave

>>2438329
i do not recommend this book as an introduction or a serious text to consult. i really enjoyed reading it but it is very poorly sourced and argued, its more like a lengthy polemic on the subject. unfortunately graeber is just not a very credible source at all

see this marxist economist bloggers critique of his debt book and how badly it mangles the subject:
https://desperatetimes914496456.wordpress.com/2025/08/04/again-graeber/

>>2438333
His book on debt is pretty bad, I agree. I don't really agree that the dawn of everything is all that badly sourced, he makes questionable biased conclusions (as he always did) but the factual information in it is solid enough. Material from 1970 will be full of errors just because of how much discoveries have been made since the 90s.

>>2438339
>>2438333

At the margins looks sweet though

It's easy to create artificial intelligence if you are a deranged psychopath and you see other human beings as little more than NPCs in a videogame.

I think that trying to create an artificial human intelligence is a fundamentally impossible endeavor because there is no way of knowing whether you have succeeded or failed. Intelligence is not some universal property that can be objectively quantified, it is an entirely anthropocentric concept defined by our own human virtues and biases. If the AI gives responses that seem intelligent to you, then you will conclude that it is intelligent, but that doesn't get you intelligence, that just gets you a machine that tells you exactly what you want to hear.

>>2438339
i will say that at the very least it is a very cool selection of various archaeological sites & unique anthropological phenomena that arent easy to come by on your own otherwise, let alone all in one place. i really appreciate it for that and i dont mind graeber & wengrows speculation, i just wish they framed their limited speculation as what it is instead of making firm arguments based on like 4 tiers of questionable conclusions strung together

and its not that the sources provided arent serious or credible, its that they often have very limited relevance to the claims they provided to defend. there were multiple times they described cultural qualities or historical features that sounded extremely interesting, and i looked for the source to learn more about it, and the source had either minimal or none at all details about the actual phenomena being described and was just a general overview of the culture/site etc. even more times theres something to their statements, but it becomes clear they FAR exaggerate the consensus around the interpretation of the phenomena or the significance of it in that context

but yes i will at least say i wont exactly DISCOURAGE reading it, and i personally enjoyed reading it and find it to be a great resource in spite of the overall arguments & the very mixed quality/relevance of evidence provided. i dont even DISAGREE with their overall thesis and in many ways agree with them that it seems more plausible, which makes me even more frustrated at an execution that i frankly think is undermined to a large extent by its intellectual arrogance

>>2438341
I'm not even sure what you mean by this

>>2438359
he probably just means that people who find AI to be convincingly replicating human thought & behavior have a poor and superficial understanding of human thought & behavior, and see it as primarily a mechanistic means to an end

im inclined to agree in many ways but for the most part i think thats a bit unfair, considering the generative models are at the very least very sophisticated at imitating human writing in a recognizable way. i still find it very uncanny & "soulless" but i dont think everyone who finds it convincing is a sociopath. i do think anyone who believes it has any real potential for simulating actual human reasoning and interaction is either ignorant, delusional, or an idiot, often some combination of the 3

>>2438359

Of course a guy like Mark Zuckerberg, someone who sees human beings as nothing but statistics, would believe that a probabilistic chatbot meets the criteria for artificial intelligence.

>>2438329
Graeber is an idealist anarchist and the whole purpose of the book is to argue against Marxist modes of production from the perspective of an anarchist. It essentially says because some societies were egalitarian in the past anarchism is possible at all stages of history when that is nonsense, all those societies were crushed by violent encroachment from hirearchical enemies. Matt Christman's series on this book thorougly disamtles it from a materialist lens.

>>2437528
>is what I would say if I actually thought AI was going to continue development and not become a hyperinflated speculative bubble and technological dead end
Damn I guess we dont have internet because of WWW-bubble.

>>2438332
>like a good wageslave
Are you a NEET? Get the fuck out of here parasite.

>>2438372
>he probably just means that people who find AI to be convincingly replicating human thought & behavior have a poor and superficial understanding of human thought & behavior, and see it as primarily a mechanistic means to an end
>>2438382
>Of course a guy like Mark Zuckerberg, someone who sees human beings as nothing but statistics, would believe that a probabilistic chatbot meets the criteria for artificial intelligence.
Oh, gotcha. That makes sense.

File: 1755586456857.mp4 (825.76 KB, 854x480, I was human.mp4)

>>2438382
>Of course a guy like Mark Zuckerberg, someone who sees human beings as nothing but statistics, would believe that a probabilistic chatbot meets the criteria for artificial intelligence.
indeed

>>2437937
Primitive communism =/= idyllic smurf village, Marx and Engels knew foraging bands and tribes also experience conflict and scarcity and hardship
>>2437969
Marx’s theory of history =/= the Soviet Union’s mechanical interpretation of Marx, Marx’s theory of history was a fundamentally open one

>>2437937
>the whole primitive communism thing is so laughable today
Its laughable because neoliberal subjects today are domesticated cattle and unable to imagine a society that engages in collective struggle and mutual aid. The only way an NPC can even think of such a thing is if a flood destroys all their infrastructure and forces them to be "primitive" (actually human!)

>>2438694
>Are you a NEET? Get the fuck out of here parasite.
Liberal is baffled by critiques of liberalism, the only way they can reduce their cognitive dissonance is this rhetoric. If you know anything about Marxism you would know Luddites were working class movement that wanted to avoid being disempowered and de-skilled, and ultimately enslaved as easily replaceable cogs in the machine. OP talked about a lack of human history, and indeed automated tech has been infamous for being extremely lacking in technical documentation so people can repair the parts or whatever. its almost impossible to find information for some private companies machine tooling. Why? Because the workers who actually built that stuff were disempwoered, de-skilled, and ultimately enslaved. Its typical liberalism to call people "parasite" for not wanting the technocratic Jeffrey Epstein PMC class to enslave your family and dispose of them when they are no longer useful

>>2438944
ah, interesting. thanks for the correction.

Why would LeftyPol hate NEETs?

>>2438329
Is that the book where they say tribal people chose to be exploited part of the year?


Unique IPs: 23

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / rules / faq / search ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / lgbt / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta ] [ wiki / shop / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]