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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Not reporting is bourgeois


File: 1755972792079.jpg (92.4 KB, 630x900, Mainländer.jpg)

 

Does anyone else here consider themselves both a Communist and also a philosophical Pessimist?

Do you believe that it is precisely because this reality we live in is so miserable, cruel, outright horrible for the vast majority that we therefore must show compassion by furthering and supporting the only political movement that seeks to improve conditions for the masses for whom life is mostly suffering?
To me it's the only position that makes sense. How could you not hold to the only politics that seeks to eliminate suffering in as far is possible?

While Schopenhauer may have been a conservative and an idealist, there is also a long and often forgotten history of materialistic, Marxist pessimism - although most of it is still pretty underground and still untranslated.
For example, the work of Philipp Mainländer (don't be distracted by his use of "God" as a metaphor for the Universe) has gained some influence of late, and there is also Sebastiano Timpanaro who I must admit I am yet to read for myself.
I'm not a big Zizek fan but he has also stated "a Communist Should Assume Life Is Hell" and spoken on how philosophical Pessimism and Marxism fit together very well, with Marxism presenting a solution to many of the problems of Pessimism.

In contrast, if you don't consider yourself a pessimist, why not? What do you think Leftypol?

Idk about all that philosophy business. To me communism seems like the only reasonable thing to do. Everything else, philosophically speaking, seems mostly like a waste of time

Like what is pessimism? Just feeling bad about the suffering in the world? Everything sucks, there's no point to anything, no meaning, it's just suffering?
So what? that doesn't leave you with anything of use, just a bit of wankery. Might as well disregard it entirely

i'm more of an 'epistemological agnostic' than a pessimist, but in a strictly egoistic sense i think that communism would provide the best life for me personally. i think marxists often misinterpret pithy quotes to dismiss philosophy entirely, while i personally think the criticism was more along the lines of the disconnect between theory and action in most philosophers. you could say i'm a 'materialist' but only in the sense that i believe that 'something' exists outside of my mind, i am definitely not a physicalist.

>>2444245
>Do you believe that it is precisely because this reality we live in is so miserable, cruel, outright horrible for the vast majority that we therefore must show compassion by furthering and supporting the only political movement that seeks to improve conditions for the masses for whom life is mostly suffering?
How is that pessimism?

>>2444268
>Like what is pessimism?
>>2444279
>How is that pessimism?

Philosophical Pessimism holds that, overall, in this reality suffering outweighs pleasure, that happiness is fleeting or unattainable. The universe wasn't created for us, nor with our happiness or wellbeing in mind.
That doesn't mean there's no happy moments. Some people's lives may be full of happiness and good experiences. But on the whole, existing is negative compared to non-being.
We do exist however, and so do others, and to most Pessimists we should be compassionate towards others because of these terrible circumstances we all find ourselves in.
And to many Marxist and Materialist Pessimist thinkers, the way to best improve overall happiness and wellbeing for living beings isn't idealistic nonsense like Nirvana, nor is an ascetic life of isolation and escapism. It is through achieving Communism and the benefits that will bring.

Didn’t this guy say after communism was achieved people would kill all themselves because there would be nothing to struggle for anymore?

>>2444391
Yes, he said once Communism removes most of people's suffering they'll realise how hollow, empty, pointless life is and many people will kill themselves.
Let's not pretend every philosopher doesn't have a few goofy ahh takes. A few silly predictions shouldn't distract from the broader picture.

No because pessimism is idealism.
This VILL get better because material conditions.

At least Mainlander had the guts to follow his thoughts to their conclusion.
Bet you won't.

>>2444383
>Philosophical Pessimism holds that, overall, in this reality suffering outweighs pleasure, that happiness is fleeting or unattainable. The universe wasn't created for us, nor with our happiness or wellbeing in mind.
Define reality. Do you mean it in the cosmic sense? Or that our current conditions are like that? If you believe it in the cosmic sense than there would be no point in trying to change it. That would be pessimism. Believing that you are currently in miserable conditions and that you can do something to change that and bring yourself to happy conditions is not pessimism.

>>2444444
Wny are you drawing an arbitrary distinction between reality in the broader sense and on the individual level?

>>2444383
I would say just abandon the pessimism part entirely, it's completely superfluous metaphysical mumbojumbo

>>2444449
>Wny are you drawing an arbitrary distinction between reality in the broader sense and on the individual level?
So you mean both? I think I wrote enough their to answer your question. Are you defining the parameters as a problem that you can implement a solution for, or are you saying "everything is shit in the cosmic rationale, we're all going to die anyways, the Sun will eat up the Earth then extinguish." Like what are the parameters of the question?

>>2444454
I mean, why distinguish, that's in the eye of the beholder I suppose, if you say that you only see in the cosmic sense of futility, I guess that's what you do, and that's your business, other people do not, which is why I was asking for your personal viewpoint and definition.

>>2444454
Im saying I reject your premise of it being one or the other.
You can implement solutions for many specific problems, which will of course improve things to a degree, but ultimately the basic premise of existence being hellish and full of suffering will remain.

>>2444458
>You can implement solutions for many specific problems, which will of course improve things to a degree, but ultimately the basic premise of existence being hellish and full of suffering will remain.
I already covered everything you said.
>Im saying I reject your premise of it being one or the other.
Now you answered the question instead of dancing around it like a faggot.
< but ultimately the basic premise of existence being hellish and full of suffering will remain.
Alright, why do anything, why come here and bitch about it? What is your purpose? Do you want my permission to jump on the train tracks? I give it to you.

Honestly these philosophies like pessiminism, nihilism, anti-natalism, etc. just feels like intellectualizing depression. Healthy people with jobs and social lives don’t believe that bullshit.

File: 1755981180297.jpeg (261.74 KB, 828x742, IMG_9688.jpeg)

lol there’s no room for pessimism is historical materialism.

>>2444444
navalgazer rolled the digits

>>2444468
Why haven't you offed yourself yet?

>>2444476
because my life isn't that bad even though society is. i have like a family and job and healthcare (shitty expensive healthcare but better than nothing)

>>2444477
So what do you want from us? This isn't a crisis hotline. Type that into your google and find your local number.

>>2444480
idk dude my first post itt was the navalgazer post. I got here because someone else tagged your post in /usapol/

>>2444484
Alright, good for you. Do you want an award or something?

>>2444485
you were talking to me as if I was someone else, so i was clarifying. you win the stupid award for not getting that.

>>2444523
You are literally a child aren't you? Like by the legal definition, right?

To be a socialist-communist is to hopemaxxing, you either belive it in the cause and hope for the best or go ropemaxxing which is bleak and a sad.

>>2444383
But why does this matter. Like regardless of how much pain there is in the universe, why should that change the historical necessity of communism. Or even, why should it change communism being an ethically good thing to work towards. It's just an extra step. You can get rid of the pessimist philosophy, work with just materialism, and you aren't losing anything at all. I think it is good to be pessimistic about political things, and to always expect the worst when you are doing something important, but you don't need a metaphysical pessimism to think that. I also do trust most people and thing the average human is good, so maybe you wouldn't like that. But that is necessary for being a communist I think.

>>2444463
Maybe they don‘t because they are ignorant.

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>>2444245
>Do you believe that it is precisely because this reality we live in is so miserable, cruel, outright horrible for the vast majority that we therefore must show compassion by furthering and supporting the only political movement that seeks to improve conditions for the masses for whom life is mostly suffering?
This is dancing close to bourgeois socialism that Marx wrote specifically against, that socialism is about helping the miserable out. Marx's historical materialism argues that the movement to new modes of production are based on real developments and not idealistic theories of people "concerned" about people. Alienation is the process of taking a person's production from them, shown in capitalism as the form of wage labor. Misery is explained with his law of wages. This type of thinking is what lead to socdems and socdems are reactionaries, just "nice" ones except for the times they murder proles and communists like the SPD did.

I don't think you can link Marx himself to Pessimism, especially when you read his 1844 Manuscripts and his later theories on ideology. He expresses there is a "real" life somewhere, a natural, unalienated human life while pessimists think it is inherently miserable to be alive. Marx's Hegelian roots run in contradiction with pessimism. Theodor Adorno actually critiqued Hegel's idealism and Marx's materialism on these lines in Negative Dialectics. He basically argued that the productive forces do not march steadily along to a final synthesis (real Communism, or the end of class antagonisms).

Another contradiction is that Marx links misery to the wage system. Philosophical pessimism links it to an absolute state caused by consciousness itself. It also has nothing to do with "hope" and political praxis. That's not the focus of Marxist theory.

I'm not too familiar with pessimist philosophy but if it's just "life sucks right now, we should make it better" that's not a philosophy because that's basically every single ideology on the planet. It seems more focused on a real existence of misery, which runs in direct opposition to "ruthless critique." I'm sure you can find stuff in it that feels right but trying to incorporate it leads to Walter Benjamin, who was hardly a Marxist who also came up with that "messianic Marxism" that's been seen again in academia recently. You can read On The Concept of History (it's very short) for an idea of what he thought.

Mainlander is a fraud for halfwits whose entire identity is simply finding “obscure” thinkers

>>2445251
Nice, now make a socialist one where the mask reads "capitalism is bad" and then their face reads "I'm poor and envious".

>>2445313
Would you like hand relief?

not wanting myself or others to starve to death or die due to lack of healthcare unnecessarily is just envy i guess lmfao, nice projection

nietzsche already destroyed pessimism in the 19th century. the pessimist (the christian) is a life-denying nihilist who wants to suppress greatness. a philosophy of life opposes this pathology at all costs.

>>2445348
>a philosopher whose conclusions hinge on baseless claims regarding history and psychology that are both falsifiable and have been falsified has destroyed anything
Ah okay. Nietzsche didn‘t disprove that there is more suffering than happiness in the world by the way

>>2445338
Flew right over ya head, lil buddy


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