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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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Not reporting is bourgeois


 

As the subject implies, I, an American leftist, have two questions for Third-Worldists.

First, if quality of life is too good here for your average American to be driven to revolution, and said quality of life is dependent on exploitation of the Third-World, shouldn't it follow that, as the American Empire's power falters, our quality of life will worsen, thus creating revolutionary conditions here?

Second, if our current quality of life is only achievable by exploiting the Third World, how is it that China is able to meet and in many cases surpass us in that regard without resorting to imperialism? Unless I'm missing additional context, the only conclusions that could be drawn are either that China is actually imperalist, or the claim that Western-level quality of life can only come from exploitation is bunk, and neither of those sits well with Third-Worldism as an ideology.

I'm specifically looking for answers from people born and living in the Third-World, since Western born Third-Worldists tend to be self-loathing academic types, although I will accept answers from Western Third-Worldists that aren't mentally cucked.
133 posts and 30 image replies omitted.

>>2455438
The ameriKKKans have you exactly where they want you, you comprador cocksucker

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>>2454909
holy projection

>>2454938
>Iran's HDI is cloder to Western Europe levels than it is to sub-Saharan Africa
>This is borne out by the fact that there is really no communist revolutionary movement to speak of in most of the third world either.
This is le interimperialism. The exploitation of man by man is global.

>>2455237
its really not. degrowth is a radlib position not communist

>>2455263
>But this line of thinking is never applied to the third world.
Because the level of development for imperialism is not present in the third world so the prerequisite material foundation for fascism is also not present. Thats why ex; Pinochet was a neoliberal and not a fascist. It helps if you have a materialist understanding of how fascism is socially reproduced and why we dont call the roman empire imperialist. States can also be incredibly reactionary without being fascist.

>>2456027
So is India not in the third world anymore? BJP/RSS are certainly close to fascist if not outright

>>2455235
Good bait

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>>2456006
It's that transparent, isn't it?
Those barbarians at it again with their Hitlerism (lol)
Deja vu, we've been in this place before. Accusation in a mirror.
You will just get your shit kicked in again.
Of this I am certain.
And allow me to reiterate. I would very much like to be "optimistic" here. It is just the simple fact that I cannot see it. You are just doing the same thing you did last time. And I am still fundamentally optimistic concerning world-history. You are simply not that important anymore. All empires must fall. It's historical materialism and all the rest. The die is cast. Just gotta see that the big, beautiful red "reset" button is not pushed.

File: 1756799251453.mp4 (19.84 MB, 1080x1920, fun in america.mp4)

moffin just wants to join in with those silly american proles
look at em having fun, boys will be boys when they lynch black children

>>2457576
how angry do you need to be to post shit like this to "win"

>>2455499
> not being mad at foreign normie proles is bad

>>2457576
Absolutely rent free lmao.
I'm so sorry I'm not a fash promoting nationalism and class collaborationism like you.

>>2457675
I thought you are italian. ameriKKKans eat as italy starves, moffin. Would you really continue sacrificing italy's proles for imperialists

File: 1756813988392.mp4 (1.19 MB, 480x854, blacccccc.mp4)

>>2457576
>20 white guys cant take down a 8 year old black kid
Clearly Moffin lacks BBC like the mayos in the video
No BBC = anger

File: 1756816288167.jpeg (8.2 KB, 150x150, mussy.jpeg)

>>2457576
I think these are the material conditions of the US, so socialism should have black lynching characteristics, just like Burkina Faso has banned homosexuality. Sorry ultra.

At this point westerners call "third worldism" the idea that westoids should try actually building a revolutionary communist organization, instead of bleating for concessions while their countries succumb to fascism.

Imagine german communists in the 30s going "omg how dare you tell german workers that they are imperialist & living on the backs of the colonies, you'll never accomplish anything by alienating the Workers(tm) like that"

I mean to be fair, that's literally what happened, but at least Germany at the time HAD a real communist movement, and a communist org, the west today just has internet shitposters mansplaining about how real communism is impossible because it would hurt the westoid "proletariat's" fee fees

>>2457737
difference is they didn't sit on their ass all day and moralize about all these magical problems that stop you from doing this, how you are predisposed to be hitler, etc, they tried (and failed) to do something

I find it funny how ultras are so "principled" and dogmatic when it comes to communist theory, but if you investigate their concrete politics at home, they're indistinguishable from radlibs and soccdems (protests, vooting, boycotts, workerism, expressing deep concern and condemnations, carrying water for the UN, anything but building a revolutionary org)

It's almost like their entire purpose is to do anticommunist propaganda against foreign countries, while posing no threat to their own bourgeoisie.

>>2457759
Modern westoid communists don't even try though, they just whine about how you're moralizing at them if you ask them to do anything.

>>2457761
well how about you stop being a moralizing cunt?
>>2457760
>le ultras
nothing of value was said in this post

>>2456027
>Thats why ex; Pinochet was a neoliberal and not a fascist
That's a meaningless distinction and those two categories are not mutually exclusive. Fascism is the terroristic dictatorship of capital against the working class. Not a specific set of economic policies.

>>2454799
>>2454839
>>2454911
>>2454922
>>2454925
>>2454936
>>2457576
>>2457737
>>2457760
That's cool and all, but none of this answers my question at all.

File: 1756846993220.png (69.73 KB, 886x244, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2457769
>a meaningless distinction
defining things by how they are socially and materially reproduced is meaningless?

>>2458567
I very explicitly answered the question.
>if our current quality of life is only achievable by exploiting the Third World, how is it that China is able to meet and in many cases surpass us in that regard without resorting to imperialism? Unless I'm missing additional context, the only conclusions that could be drawn are either
False dichotomy. This isn't even a cheap gotcha, it's a self-report. Just cause you, in your ignorance, cannot see anything past the present system, the imperialists as the pinnacle of human civilization etc.
does not make it so.
I of course, in dialectical manner, pose the counter-question (show me what good are you in the west), which of course has not been answered at all.

because capitalism is inefficient, due to the imperative of making profit

I thought this was obvious to anyone with an even cursory understanding of marxism, so I didn't bother answering the question because I thought OP was pretending to be retarded for the sake of creating discussion

also, quality of life != wealth. westoids are wealthy. they have shit infrastructure, but they get to own property, 401ks, big gas guzzling cars, and cheap manufactured goods, as well as enjoying the boons of racial and patriarchial hierarchy

btw average wage in china is ~$12 an hour, average hourly wage in USA is ~$30. so it's just untrue to say that "meets" the US in wealth, they're achieving all of that despite paying jizya tax to the dollar hegemony

>>2458570
Oh missed this right above my post, last post of the night.
lol sabo etc, the colonizers with a human face and so on are really just a meaningless drone noise to me at this point. Good
Anyway, don't mind it. One time fascism is some unique evil, the other it doesn't matter. The only coherent explanation for this is they want to "absolve" their society of being "different". Well, even if I grant that, it's a semantic game fundamentally. You are just like other people, only particularly shit. And just cause I find it funny right this minute, you are not getting welfare, healthcare etc. either. "oh we would rather have functioning health system than bringing death and destruction to the world". You aren't getting it either way, win or lose. You'd have to "organize" for it.
Which, at the risk of repetition, fat chance of that. Anyway, this small bean "I don't want my country to do this" is so stale, I won't get into it. Briefly thought about it. Nah.

And sabo (among others) shows just how much either I have outgrown this place or this place, with the people in it, has deteriorated (which direction be the movement?). He was in terms of identityfags, definitely one of the "high quality" ones. Alongside gay nazi, who also by all appearances is taking the death of empire hard, but I am not reading a lot of either at this point in the game. Of course anonymous is always better than identityfags (by sheer numbers alone, there is a number of users for any idfag, some of them have to have some grasp of reality). That is, in terms of people that do not already agree with me, there is no one to pull out here, to "turn". My propaganda effort is not going anywhere, I will be the first to admit.

Tl;dr: I repeat, get fucked. And hurry up with it, would you kindly?
To end my screed, then, on a positive note, have some Heraclitus. I have somewhat outgrown the habit of suggesting suicide to people, except when provoked beyond what I find to be a reasonable limit but I find it apropos at this point. It's just a meme, don't get your panties in a twist.

File: 1756890301202.mp4 (2.34 MB, 564x540, 1648125752755.mp4)

To think about the worst case again (I am just a ray of sunshine).
When the world is ashes, you may have free (as in gratis) healthcare. That is certainly one way to get rid of money, and the capitalist system and everything.
So realistically, that may be your best bet.
Two step plan:
1.Nuke the world
2. Healthcare free

>>2459250
>>2459237
>>2459112
>I of course, in dialectical manner, pose the counter-question
>I have outgrown this place or this place, with the people in it, has deteriorated
>I have somewhat outgrown the habit of suggesting suicide to people, except when provoked beyond what I find to be a reasonable limit but I find it apropos at this point.
>(I am just a ray of sunshine).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder

>>2459252
Ok but to reply properly I'd require more info. I generally don't diagnose people over the net. Another thing I have outgrown. "little bitch disorder" is what you have.

>>2459256
>Ok but to reply properly I'd require more info. I generally don't diagnose people over the net. Another thing I have outgrown. "little bitch disorder" is what you have.
When are you going to outgrow throwing weird self-obsessed tantrums?

File: 1756891864991.png (1.37 MB, 968x579, ClipboardImage.png)

But in case you are capable of listening, hey.
Not like I am shy about it. For this persona, Grandeur basically is the best fit. I do admit with most of you on an "instinctual", emotional level, I marvel at how we are supposed to be the same species.
Grandeur (delusion) is a symptom, not a complex or disorder. Now, for narcissism, it is missing the avoidant element. I challenge you to put up a fight and so on. It's basically what I do here.
>>2459260
I dunno, shitposting begets shitposting. I am reducing my consumption of this place. Most of you are so stale. it's not even proper fun to run circles around you. Just a habit, I suppose.
I won't say "if you weren't so stupid, I wouldn't act like that" but I'm thinking it.

>>2459268
Too bad nobody in the world is smart enough to appreciate you. That's why nobody likes you. What a tragic misunderstood soul.

File: 1756892325727.png (3.47 MB, 3840x2160, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2459269
No, no tragedy. Comedy.

>>2459112
Okay, well I didn't *understand* your answer, and I still don't. Do you mind simplifying a bit?

>>2459410
China is not >capitalist< (if you are uncomfortable talking in those terms call it a very unusual new form of special statecraft, unlike any previous). In any case it need not be imperialist. Socialist imperialism, not a thing.
Others told you the same thing in different terms.

>>2457760
Gigatrvke

China is imperialist thoughbeit

>>2459430
Thank you for simplifying.

>China is not >capitalist<

I don't think it is.
>In any case it need not be imperialist.
And I don't think it's imperialist either.

>>2459449
Well, de nada. Da nich für.

>>2453545
Marxist settlers are like: "the fact that I spent the last ten years never once listening to my nonwhite slaves who live in the nazi ghetto segregated apartheid part of my city means I'm a true Marxist intellectual who is on the right side of history. My ignorant and reactionary non-Marxist slaves should be listening to ME!!! True revolution is found in my Jewist art and culture socialist podcast Doomscroll"

>>2454894
>America's welfare state is worse than some third world countries.
<relative and highly contextual, its impossible to create a universal principle
if you were actual Leninists you would understand that the imperial core/periphery dialectic exists within countries as well between different countries. Obama's Wall Street finance imperialist friends destroyed Flint's water system for profit just like they destroy Palestinian water.

>>2457769
>"neoliberal and not a fascist" That's a meaningless distinction
IMF neocolonialism vs WWII era war colonialism
>why we dont call the roman empire imperialist.
<the Latin word imperium signifies "supreme power," "sovereignty," or "to rule"
lol
>States can also be incredibly reactionary without being fascist.
as Fanon said, fascism is when the violence which Europeans cheered in Africa return home to harm them

>>2456017
>degrowth is a radlib position not communist
>>2455235
>Communist China is the world's factory
Socialism is the ideology of microplastics and they define any opposition to this catastrophe as reactionary and unscientific and on the wrong side of history

Its so funny how these PMC larpers are like:
<"The proletariat will solve all our problems with their heroic working class science!…well no, of course I am a worthless parasite, but I'm sure someone else has new innovative ideas!…wait no stop, your 21st century Chinese proletarian ideas like 'stop wasting limited resources to produce Walmart consumer product slop' are scary to a neoliberal Dengists like me. You workers are not allowed to a world within microplastics, why do you hate the working class you fucking fascist???"

>>2452374
Oh boy, another "I'm just asking questions" post from someone who has done less than zero research about what "third worldists" actually believe.

>if quality of life is too good here for your average American to be driven to revolution, and said quality of life is dependent on exploitation of the Third-World, shouldn't it follow that, as the American Empire's power falters, our quality of life will worsen, thus creating revolutionary conditions here?

This is a basic concept in Third-Worldism, yes. Glad you could connect the dots.

>if our current quality of life is only achievable by exploiting the Third World, how is it that China is able to meet and in many cases surpass us in that regard without resorting to imperialism?

Regardless of whether you consider China socialist or not, it is objectively deeply tied into global systems of imperialism and does take advantage of that extraction to remain dominant in domestic and export production.
>Unless I'm missing additional context, the only conclusions that could be drawn are either that China is actually imperialist… and neither of those sits well with Third-Worldism as an ideology.
This is the biggest tell that you've never actually read anything coming out of this tendency. China as a modern social-imperialist power is a very widespread belief within Third-Worldism, and is very much internally consistent within their theory. I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that this doesn't "sit well" with Third-Worldism.

>>2452565
Damn people really just go on leftypol dot org and make shit up.

>>2452770
Anyone saying socialism will decrease quality of life is a reactionary wrecker glowie.

>>2459653
i find maoists calling modern china "social imperialist" incredible (in the literal sense), when late mao was doing actual international adventurism, and modern china just trades

the idea that modern china does "economic imperialism" is also questionable, as the numbers show that their output roughly matches their productivity, vs the west that overconsumes and the rest of the world that is overexploited.
just never seen a credible argument for china's "imperialism"

>>2460013
Entire KKE's position of "imperialism is when trade" stinks of opportunism.

>>2459481
>fascism is when the violence which Europeans cheered in Africa return home to harm them
And that's a good thing. Not because of some "oh justice must be done, let them have a taste of it". Only purely from a practical standpoint, if they are tied up trying to destroy each other, they have less free resources to kill the world. Or rather it's just a simple byproduct of their waning status, dominance.

>>2460458
Actually it returns to kill the nonwhites at home. And communists, for being in the way.

You're falling for the "citizen" sleight of hand where who counts as part of the body of the empire is selectively applied for each circumstance.

>>2460478
You are right, to a degree.
"and that's a good thing" is too reductive, naive. I had just woken up and wanted to make some basic shitpost, I suppose.
However, the argument that violence hits "the wrong people" is, to me, impermissible. People (fundamentally, us, the workers) that are already worse off, get more shit thrown their way. It's been true and it remains true in all the history of history. Of course, communists and so on are targeted (that too, is the nature of the beast), I have my own thought on that, essentially I do not believe in an american/western left as a real entity. I can be convinced otherwise, if someone were to show it to me.
So, sorry but it is time for the egg to meet the omelet and stop terrorizing everyone.


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