I had a conversation with Taiwanese rapper and communist Xiangyu a while back about his visit to Cuba pre-COVID. He openly said it was a shithole, and that the government cares more about using pinkwashing to get support from western libs than it does about building socialism. He said the lumpen are out of control there, and that Cubans have zero work ethic. Even when MLs talk about Cuba's recent "progress" it's all just stuff about their LGBT rights being the best in the world or some shit. I think the reason Cuba is the only socialist country libs like is because they don't provide any challenge to capitalist hegemony. They didn't industrialize when they had the Soviets to subsidize them, so their economy is mostly tourism and service based. To build socialism you need an economy built on productive labor like China. China's rapid economic development is the #1 reason the west sees them as a threat. Cuba is just a vacation resort.
>China's rapid economic development is the #1 reason the west sees them as a threat. Cuba is just a vacation resort.
You've answered your own question, it's precisely because Cuba is not a threat to the West that it gets used in a "good communists" role. It's the same with Vietnam, libs constantly talk up the rivalry between Vietnam and China for the sole purpose of stirring shit up since they only care about using Vietnam as a beatstick against China since Vietnam will never really be developed or strong enough to pushback against the West.
Cuba was revisionist as fuck since day one. Che was a beautiful badass though.
>>2453252I know this Indian standup comedian who lives and works in HCM City in a big ad firm. She performed at a show sponsored by Liberty in North Korea. The Vietnamese authorities didn't even take notice.
Same reason they support Palestine it looks like an underdog and oppressed. Russia is scary attacker who messes with you + installed orange man and China is global hegemon rivaling the USA so they are both bad
I forgot to include the DPRK on here; the only socialist state today directly confronting imperialism via military force.
>>2453269North Korea from time to time shoots rockets into sea and says going to defend themselves which is bad to liberals as they see North Korea can cause violence if needed. Cuba they see as totally harmless so they feel sympathy.
>>2453240>They didn't industrialize when they had the Soviets to subsidize them, so their economy is mostly tourism and service based.I think they carved out a niche in biotech. From what I understand they also made these investments in the 1980s against Soviet advice which was probably a smart move. If it wasn't for that, the government might have been overthrown already.
>Even when MLs talk about Cuba's recent "progress" it's all just stuff about their LGBT rights being the best in the world or some shit.To be honest I don't really pay attention to MLs anymore on the internet. But in terms of legal rights, it's near the top according to ILGA although this map is somewhat debatable (because some countries don't have constitutions but protections for LGBT people which are as strong or stronger than constitutional protections, also it's six years old). To be honest I think some of this stuff is more cultural. Cuba is not that different culturally from the rest of Latin America which has stronger legal protections in many countries than the United States, and the culture doesn't change that much because it has a socialist government.
>>2453304No socialism = China. There's no reason Cubans can't have some work ethic
>>2453240>I had a conversation with Taiwanese rapper and communist Xiangyu a while back about his visit to Cuba pre-COVID. He openly said it was a shithole, and that the government cares more about using pinkwashing to get support from western libs than it does about building socialism.Pic related. And even so, isn't Xiangyu affiliated with the ACP? And even so, have you forgotten about the big fuck off embargo that's being enforced by the US and strengthened by Trump?
>He said the lumpen are out of control there, and that Cubans have zero work ethic. Hearsay from an e-celeb. Disgarded.
>Even when MLs talk about Cuba's recent "progress" it's all just stuff about their LGBT rights being the best in the world or some shit. Because LGBTQ rights are civil rights, dipshit. Considering this was a country mired in homophobia, the fact they made a change is amazing.
>I think the reason Cuba is the only socialist country libs like is because they don't provide any challenge to capitalist hegemony. <Muh libsIf they didn't provide a challenge to capitalist hegemony, why the fuck does the US insist on maintaining the embargo?
>They didn't industrialize when they had the Soviets to subsidize them, so their economy is mostly tourism and service based. 1. Yes they did.
https://www.mexicohistorico.com/paginas/cuba-and-its-path-to-industrialization-ade134af.html<The Cuban Revolution marked a watershed moment in the island's industrial history. Following Fidel Castro's ascent to power in 1959, the government initiated sweeping reforms aimed at restructuring the economy and redistributing wealth. One of the cornerstones of these reforms was the nationalization of key industries, including sugar, tobacco, and manufacturing. This move aimed to eliminate foreign control and foster a more self-sufficient economy.
<As a result, the state took over factories and plantations, leading to significant changes in management practices and production methods. The government implemented a central planning model, which aimed to prioritize industrial development and reduce dependency on imports. In the early years following the revolution, Cuba witnessed a rapid increase in industrial output, particularly in the sugar sector, which was seen as a vital source of foreign exchange through trade with the Soviet Union.
<During the 1960s and 1970s, Cuba sought to diversify its industrial base further. The government invested in various sectors, including chemicals, pharmaceuticals, and food processing. The establishment of the Ministry of Basic Industry in 1965 marked a significant step in this direction, as it centralized control over the production of raw materials and industrial goods.2. Almost as if having a trade embargo prevents you from trading with others therefore impacting your economy. Duh-doi.
>To build socialism you need an economy built on productive labor like China. China's rapid economic development is the #1 reason the west sees them as a threat. Cuba is just a vacation resort.I swear this site becomes dumber by the day.
LEARN YOUR FUCKING HISTORYThere's no economic embargo on China, and the USA consistently had a history of outsourcing to China, usually at the expense of other socialist entities. China doesn't have the same restrictions on trade in the same way Cuba does, and is able to trade freely with whoever they wish. Cuba doesn't have that luxury.
While Cuba and Vietnam were working on bettering relations with the USSR, China was straight up doing deals with the USA while acting as their bagmen, going as far to open trade deals with the US, and backing the Khmer Rouge (a US proxy) in attacking Vietnam, and then having a war with Vietnam.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_WarThe reason these "libs" (not that you probably know the meaning of the word), side with Cuba and Vietnam over China is because unlike them, they don't have a history of backstabbing their socialist allies like China did, and actually stood up to their imperialist invaders at great cost to themselves.
Vietnam's embargo was lifted around the 1990's, while Cuba's still remains. Miss me with your MAGA-communist pseudo-occidentalist bullshit.
>>2453317>muh work ethicprotestant detected
libs don't like any socialist countries. maybe there's a certain type of socialist you're trying to call lib. I'm guessing you're JAQing off right now and you choose an image with rainbow flags for a reason.
>>2453325Socialism is not a cult of poverty
>>2453240>They didn't industrializeis it geographically practical to industrialize an island
>>2453255what did they revise
>>2453259Russia is ex-socialist. China is socialist. Palestine is just an underdog.
>>2453348>libs don't like any socialist countries.that was also my 1st reaction is what libs is OP talking too that are cool enough to be pro-cuba?
>>2453358quippy two word reply
>>2453259I fucking swear, 95% of leftist support for Palestine is based on nothing but a martyrdom fetish.
>>245340695% of any support for Palestine is just basic decency to not blow up starving children
So being gay is or supporting gays is lib
Cuba supported revolution all over latin America, the problem is that guerrillas outside of Colombia were largely incompetent and tried LARPing the attack on Moncada base
So did Cuba just go on tour in Angola for cute black girls, is that what you’re telling me?
>>2453240>Why is Cuba the only socialist country libs like?Because the issue of Cuba is fully integrated into the USAno culture war, so there needs to be both side's of the issue (even if both are liberals).
It's the same reason why before the media blitz most USAnos, with nonetheless strong opinions on Ukraine WRT Trump/Biden could not place the country on a map. USAnos see the world more throguh the lens of the culture war, the simulacrum that anyone else on the planet. They are the most propagandized population on earth. But because their surveillance and security state are so advanced and seamlessly integrated into the cultural industries, it appears as if the utterly delusional worldview on which they operate largely overlaps with actual reality.
Until it doesn't and you see the barely-human NPC for what it is.
>>2453240I have never in my life met an honest to god lib that supports Cuba. You're doing the thing where you saw one guy act one way and are now extrapolating that to cover an entire group.
>>2453448These kinds of social issues have nothing to do with communism. If you hear people arguing over whether or not we'll have gay marriage under communism, they're being retarded and you should probably ignore them.
>>2453252Cuba has been far more consistently internationalist than China since 1991 (and before), it's not even close.
>>2453459OP believes UNITA were the choice of true communists.
>because they don't provide any challenge to capitalist hegemony.
It's a teeny-tiny island in the americas.
>>2453256>The Vietnamese authorities didn't even take notice.Yeah and China voted for sanctions against the DPRK on several occasions. Their policies are virtually identical.
>>2453731>I have never in my life met an honest to god lib that supports CubaAlso this. Libs generally still regard it as le oppressive communist dictatorship. The most you could say is that it's the only AES state that non-ML socialists (leftcoms, Trots, demsocs, anarchists, etc.) will express sympathy for. Mainstream libs are still very much hostile to it.
isn't china pressing for cuba to implement free market economic reforms ?
>libs like cuba
since fucking when? i never see that
>>2454040Well if you expand your definition of liberal to mean "anybody who rejects Haz and Dugin" anything is possible
>>2453240>They didn't industrialize when they had the Soviets to subsidize themThe Cubans wanted to diversify industry and the Soviets wanted them to keep producing sugar, no? Anyway. You put too much blame on leadership. Size matters. Cuba could never have been what China is.
>>2453272As far as I know there is no legal default that the Kim family must always lead so not really a monarchy.
>>2454045I've said this elsewhere, but it's really fucking funny that people here will put Haz's name in the same sentence as Dugin's. Statically speaking, there's furries that are more culturally relevant than he and his "party" are.
>>2454030They have been since the 90s
>>2453731> These kinds of social issues have nothing to do with communism.Communism is supposed to govern all of society, this means yes you have to deal with social and cultural norms and have an answer to questions you don’t like
>>2453731>These kinds of social issues have nothing to do with communism. If you hear people arguing over whether or not we'll have gay marriage under communism, they're being [ableist slur] and you should probably ignore them.You can't be against idpol while still being a communist. It's fortunate that no one is listening to you.
>>2453240Since when do libs even support Cuba? Literally who?
>>2455191Capitalism currently governs most of society, and yet the social views of people under capitalism change with time and place. It's not that these issues don't matter, it's that they're largely agnostic of the class struggle.
>>2455223Why?
>>2453269directly confronting imperialism would mean re-taking the rest of the peninsula.
They are barely holding on to sovereignty in DPRK. Commendable, but not as grandiose as you make it seem anon
>>2453272Thanks for the valuable insight on the DPRK state department employee anon
>>2453240Honestly? Because post 1991 Cuba went from an outpost of a powerful enemy to
a punching bag of the USAno regime. That's the kind of socialism they, USAno "socialists" want. The "idea" that others must sacrifice for, and never threatens their own status and well being in the capitalist world hegemon.
And if it is the USA victimizing them, all the better. That just means the USAno "left" gets to play "socialist" in the culture war and "defend" Cuba (unless it actually becomes a threat to their world hegemon capitalist state in which case kill all them Cubans).
A similar case to Rojava, if Cuba routinely permitted US troops from bombing Venezuela for the Oil from their territory using their people as a (PR) human shield. And then invaded Essequibo to capture the oil fields and was actually in cahoots with the neoliberal factions of the US backed Venezuelan "opposition" to merge into one political entity and…
Well shit, I guess they are not so similar but you get the point.
>>2453317China is socialist, libtard
>>2453731The bourgeois family and the pre-industrial nature of domestic labor has a lot to do with communism actually.
>>2453269This is pure cope. If you think that NK nuclear trials are a way to "confront imperialism" through military force is false. It is mostly a way of getting diplomatic (and aid related) concessions to both CHINA and the West.
>Ziggers hates the only "socialist" state that doesn't kill gays (anymore)
Wow no way!
Ultras be like
>Local organisation of socialist movements should be the only concern of true communists, geopolitics is bourgeoisie.
<Except when I'm agreeing with my bourgeoisie about AES
>>2481135>Something nobody saidWOW, holy shit! That's crazy!!!
>>2453304>There might be interesting historical reasons why North Koreans are like North Koreans.Perhaps it's just their culture man, that's the part that is surprisingly unfathomable for libs when they're ripping on the A E S T H E T I C S of the DPRK. You realise there is a hard limit on how different the cultures can be to be subject to liberal diversity.
>>2453272>The Korean feudal monarchy is what the vanguard of socialism looks likeI doubt you know what feudal or vanguard means.
<North Korea's leadership is seemingly hereditary though, when the west is over that.and to what end? What difference did changing how leadership is decided from inheritance to nepotism make? I'm not an anthropologist so I don't know why hereditary leadership has been so common throughout human history, but it is and I know the
west is over it, but then the monarchies of Europe and Korea have taken quite different trajectories throughout the last few centuries, one being the side that imperialised the world and enjoyed the unfettered development that awarded and resulting infighting about how much of the booty a monarch received, the other only recently got its independence and start on development on its own terms.
I'm not going to be like North Korea BAD because their vanguard seem to dig hereditary leadership in the same way the European Royal Courts did, when the difference is North Korea being a shockingly nice place to be for those who live there given the pressure placed on them by imperialists and the abject poverty peasants of colonial Europe endured, not to mention that of the lowest rungs of modern, imperial
but democratic Europe and American society.
>>2453240>Why is Cuba the only socialist country libs like?because they enjoy the sanction-torture they subject to revolutionary Cuba
>>2481167>Perhaps it's just their culture man, that's the part that is surprisingly unfathomable for libs when they're ripping on the A E S T H E T I C S of the DPRK. You realise there is a hard limit on how different the cultures can be to be subject to liberal diversity. I'd add though, North Korea has also been relatively isolated. It's not so easy to get in and out, and they've tried to keep most Western-style tendencies out. It's not like Japan, but if you traveled to Japan in the 1960s it would've seem less "Western" than it does now, although there was a lot of that influence. The same goes for China. But like I was saying, Cuba is really part of the Western world if we include Latin America in that.
Anyhow, there's this whole debate about Westernization, and there are liberals who embrace it and conservatives who push back on it. North Korea from my perspective actually looks like a form of extreme conservatism at least in this respect.
>Anyhow, there's this whole debate about Westernization, and there are liberals who embrace it and conservatives who push back on it. North Korea from my perspective actually looks like a form of extreme conservatism at least in this respect.
There is no debate. You are an imperialist. Rejecting imperialist control of your nation is not "extreme conservatism," but revolution itself.
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