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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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Not reporting is bourgeois


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Yes, China has in may ways betrayed many of the principles of Marxism. China is deeply flawed, and I have no pretenses to convince you otherwise.

Yet, despite all of these flaws does China not offer a strong foundation for building Communism. China, unlike other countries has both a strong base of material wealth to build off of as well as a populous that both believes in and is willing to act on the principles of Marxism.

It seems to me at least that it is comparatively our best hope for building communism. Is it not? I would like to hear others input on this subject as I'm still somewhat on the fence regarding all of this.
101 posts and 23 image replies omitted.

>>2458975
No because imperialism is stagnant. The capitalists do not want to lower the rate of profit and the capitalists do not want to give up power.

Class struggle is required to force the capitalists into competition and lowering the rate of profit. For example, labor unions force the capitalists to outsource all the factories into the periphery.

Destroying the productive forces just does the work of fascists and imperialists for them in delaying socialism. You cannot accelerate capitalism by acquiescence, capitalism is accelerated through resistance.

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This is what China is

This thread makes me want to gouge my eyes out. You're all desperate for something that doesn't require you to do literally anything

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>>2460043
Good. And good on you if you do things for real.

>>2459967
In China, private property refers to the lawful property owned by citizens, including but not limited to the following examples:

Residential Property: Homes, apartments, or other residential real estate owned by individuals.
Personal Vehicles: Cars, motorcycles, bicycles, or other means of transportation owned by individuals.
Savings and Investments: Bank deposits, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, and other financial assets.
Business Ownership: Private enterprises, sole proprietorships, or shares in private companies.
Personal Belongings: Household items, electronics, jewelry, art, and other personal possessions.
Intellectual Property: Patents, trademarks, copyrights, and other forms of intellectual property created by individuals.
Agricultural Land: Land contracted by farmers under the household registration system for agricultural production.

The Chinese government protects the lawful private property of citizens in accordance with the law, ensuring that their rights and interests are respected and safeguarded. This is an important aspect of China's socialist legal system and contributes to social stability and economic development.

-t. Deepseek

>>2461211
And you think that is a reply? Nevermind that the man in the video freely "confesses" to there being "private property" (capitalists, which cannot exists without the concept).
I don't think it's pedagogically the right move to reply.
I'll say this only, it's akin to everyone talking about how to get from A to B, and you coming in to say "A is not B". Wow, yeah, you're a bit slow, aren't you?

Sorry if there's some joke or irony I am not getting here but we have generally left behind the "libertarian", pure "socialism" so far, I think (self-)parody is mostly going to miss the mark. It's kinda hard to fathom. We are fundamentally talking about different things. You have missed the bus. History is back. Goes back to what I said about politics as a "theoretical exercise" and a real thing with real consequence, above.
Point is, you're behind, you're behind me. You think you are walking in front ("to the left" of reality, as it were), this is an illusion, a chimera.

>>2461679
I mean this in the least insulting way possible, but you seem severely mentally ill.

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course it seems to you as such
Coincidentally I have been reading up on genocide bc of recent/historical development.
>Identity Constrains Choice
>Despite their different self-images, for all the individuals interviewed identity constrained choice. Identity set a cognitive menu of options available for the speaker. Acts not on the cognitive menu are not considered, just as sushi is not an option in an Italian restaurant. For the Nazis, their victim self-image meant they felt compelled to strike preemptively, to protect themselves because they genuinely felt like a people under attacks from vile, base elements in society. For rescuers, their lack of choice emanated from their view of themselves as connected to all humankind…
<Monroe, Kristen Renwick-Cracking the Code of Genocide: The Moral Psychology of Rescuers, Bystanders, and Nazis during the Holocaust

>>2457386
Most bourgeoisies weren't put in power after an explicitly communist revolution, the modern day chinese bourgeoisie gained it's status after the revolution. Once you're in power, no point doing a self coup to officially reject the ideals of communism

>>2461681
he does but that one made sense

>>2461679
>we have generally left behind the "libertarian", pure "socialism"
You've generally left behind socialism as a whole. If you were to force Marx to define communism, his answer would most certainly be something along the lines of "the abolition of private property". And if you haven't noticed, China ain't done that.

>>2461701
Thanks
I suppose
I am modest here, I will chalk up any understanding from the westoid corner, no matter how little and/or begrudgingly it may be, as a victory.
>>2461704
You missed the point
again
Lemme try in a most basic way:
It's about the journey, not the destination.

>>2461705
>It's about the journey, not the destination.
That makes no sense. Everything you post is incomprehensible.

>>2461713
In the truest sense, I don't know what to tell you.

>>2461715
Tell me something in plain English. You keep posting these weird riddles, just say the thing you're trying to communicate.

>>2461716
It's like you (not you personally) are the evil empire in Star Wars. We need to blow up the Death Star (Israel, and the forward operating bases of the Empire more generally) and it's "sponsor" US-imperialism. Then we can live in peace on the Labubu planet.

>>2457103
China isn't doing enough to build the productive forces. I would support China more if they did not have private property brained car-centric cities. Nobody should own a home, evict the suburbs, fuck stroads and fuck cars.

>>2461949
They are actually reversing a lot of the car-centric shit they did back in the day.

>>2461951
That's news for the better. I hope that they go through with improvements here. I think that private property-centric cities are a really hidden way that private property wastes a lot of our labor-time in traffic and other bullshit.

>>2461728
I told you to be direct, and you opted for a fucking Star Wars simile.

>>2461713
>>2461704
>If you were to force Marx to define communism, his answer would most certainly be
something dialectical like becoming-communism. its not just the end point but the entire process of getting there. in some places he says abolition of property or commodity production, in some places he says stateless classless moneyless, in some places he says the real movement to abolish the present state of things. the process of becoming-communism is everything from the workers revolution to dictatorship of the proletariat, to the rational planning of the increase of productive forces, and the transition to a society where from each to each becomes the norm. communism and socialism all of it together, according to marx, or if you want to use common vocab we can split socialism and communism to signify the lower and higher stages. it all means the same thing.

>>2462322
Anon, that sounds a lot like philosophical horseshit.



>>2462121
Man, I don't know. What specifically is it that is troubling you?
>>2462322
This is a fine enough answer in an abstract, broad way.

>>2461713
>>2461716
>>2462121
God these people are so dumb bro

Ah that's where I left this this text or these texts. Scusi, just grabbing some stuff for a repeat of a repeat or a rerun of a rerun. Get those scripts out like yesterday.

>>2457111
You already know the answer has nothing to do with communism and everything to do with coalition building against US power.

>>2458575
>representing the workers
if by workers you mean global finance and the children or party cadres who run all of the country's extremely lucrative SOEs and megacorporations then sure

>but china is in fact using capitalism

we know

>>2485157
workers are a lot more represented in china poltical institutions than in any capitalist country

>global finance

explicitely does not have political power in china, while they are calling the shots in all capitalists countries

>party cadres who run all of the country's extremely lucrative SOEs

and do not get to own it or have a rent from it, because indeed the state own them

you should read a book sometimes retard

>>2457103
>betrayed
christcuck

>>2485155
>coalition building against US power.
Ah yes, where would the coalition be without CPUSA and The Communist Party of Australia?

>>2457111
>I always think that if the chinese communist party no longer communist then why does it spend so much time engaging with other communist parties around the world
Such as?


>>2485589
Lmao.
Communist parties

The CCP continues to have relations with non-ruling communist and workers' parties and attends international communist conferences, most notably the International Meeting of Communist and Workers' Parties.[224][better source needed] While the CCP retains contact with major parties such as the Communist Party of Portugal,[225] the Communist Party of France,[226] the Communist Party of the Russian Federation,[227] the Communist Party of Bohemia and Moravia,[228] the Communist Party of Brazil,[229] the Communist Party of Greece,[230] the Communist Party of Nepal (UML)[231] and the Communist Party of Spain,[232] the party also retains relations with minor communist and workers' parties, such as the Communist Party of Australia,[233] the Workers Party of Bangladesh, the Bangladesher Samyabadi Dal (ML), the Communist Party of Sri Lanka, the Workers' Party of Belgium, the Hungarian Workers' Party, the Dominican Workers' Party, the Nepal Workers Peasants Party, and the Party for the Transformation of Honduras, for instance.[234] It has poor relations with the Japanese Communist Party.[235] In recent years, noting the self-reform of the European social democratic movement in the 1980s and 1990s, the CCP "has noted the increased marginalization of West European communist parties."[236]
Lmao. The International Meeting of Communist and Workers' Parties is a fucking nothingburger with nonbinding empty declarations, no analysis, no cooperation, etc. Moreover, it collapsed after the start of the Russia Ukraine war, splitting over Russia's character in the war, not having had a meeting since 2023 despite years of uninterupted yearly meeting before. The KKE and the TKP started a new international organ consisting only of european parties alligned with their perspective.
As far as I know, there is no meaningfull cooperation of tactical of material between, for example, the KKE and China, and the rest is even less meaningful, being just a letter signed by a few old random communists as individuals.

This does not qualify as "spend so much time engaging with other communist parties around the world". Sending a couple guys to the SOLIDNET meeting once every year to read out empty statement is not "spending a lot of time engaging with other communist parties around the world". Where is there international? Where is the material support for said parties? Why isn't china helping by publicising media or printing books or whatever? Why aren't they training anyone? Compared to any previous international efforts, this is nothing. The comintern send agents all over the world to help set up parties and develop them. They constantly had in depth exchanges between each other. Comintern decisions were binding.

Go read some SOLIDNET meeting notes. Its just people reading out page long "thank you great comrades from xyz country for hosting we have solidarity with you oh so much solidarity!" and the one time they actually tried to tackle a real issue facing the global communist movement, namely the character of the ukraine war, it collapsed and hasn't had a meeting since.

>>2485616
also
>inb4 people backpeddling that china does not need to engage with other communists and lazy westerners should just fix their own shit
I am merely casting doubt on the assertion that china spends a lot of time and effort engaging with other parties. Their foreign policy has famously been "we do not engage foreign political factions if they are not in power" very explicitly ever since opening up.

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>>2485616
>>2485625
Some gems from the great and impressive international known as SOLIDNET

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>China has in may ways betrayed many of the principles of Marxism

The Chinese communist party is a nationalist party first and foremost. It has no sense of internationalism. It engages with the world on the basis of what will benefit it the most without making any effort to further socialism in the rest of the world, because why would that benefit them? It's never going to directly oppose the global capitalist system that made it rich and powerful. It's never going to be the USSR pt.II no matter how much everyone on the left and right wants it to be. It's certainly the last best hope for communism but then that just shows how bad things are.

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>>2485647
>The country is strong therefore marxist

>>2485651
does the US have a communist party in power? does the US make Porky mad?

>>2485653
The republican party is red + local proletarian managers love it while the foreigner porkies tend to seethe so yeah it's just like china

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>>2485625
sounds like 'non-interference in internal affairs' aligns perfectly fine with 'nations right to self determination' to me. i dont see a problem here

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>>2485648
cope and seethe

Dogmatists and idealists 24/7 itt. Why Communism will never come to the West, exhibit 1.

>>2457595
China has a doctrine of continuous revolution, so actually seeding the conditions for potentially its own overthrow is just the CPC being ML-MZT.

>>2486072
This will be of great benefit to China and the numerous capitalist and reactionary governments it connects. Not really going to be empowering communism in any of these places though.

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>>2486106
if you cant understand how infrastructure development in the third world is a prerequisite for communism then you cant be helped

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>>2457103
China and Russia are how we know communism won't work. The greed for money and power always corrupts. The way it's worked out assumes everyone will always be on board. But whenever it's attempted those at the top consolidate power and rule with corruption.

Fuck China. They're not suddenly going to start treating their citizens right. Get off your fence. All that far left commie shit is great on paper but in the age of the 1% they have every incentive NOT to share equally.


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