Call me a tankie, but i just dont get it how much i read and learn, how the hell is a anarchist [anarcho-syndicalist/anarcho-communist/platformism] federation going to defend itself against bigger and more advance nations such as Russia, America, China, or even the imperialist EU union itself, without a state/main government to organize ?
And especially how would it work on a large scale like Russia, or America again without a state and also on that how would education, healthcare, crime solving, would be managed, plus the continue fight against reactionary forces from inside or outside ?
This just feels childish and foolish to me
only way the free territory or KPAM would've survived is as autonomous zones within AES states
>>2462666nice trips LARPboy bAndIts lmao
>>2462661This argument starts to fall apart when you realise there are state-socialist aligned govs which lasted just as long, if not shorter than these anarchist experiments (Thomas Sankara's Burkina Faso, Maurice Bishop's Grenada). Furthermore, a state isn't a garuntee that the revolution will be spared or automatically saved from imperialism or inner conflict which may arise tear itself apart. Yugoslavia and the USSR come to mind.
Not to mention you have stateless-aligned socialist movements who still exist and operate to this day. Prime example being the DAANES and the Zapatista controlled chiappas.
>but they're not anarchist Neither am I. Being anti-state doesn't automatically make you an anarchist. If that was the case, CLR James or Abdullah Ocalan would be "anarchists". Yet both use confederal/federal means to fight off their invaders and opressors.
That's not even getting into the fact that non-state socialists had a hand in effectively defending themselves, only to be either betrayed or sabotaged by their allies. (May Day Riots in Spain 1936)
As for the states that do/did exist, a lot of them have a history of sabotaging themselves and competing for their own interests and causing needless splits and wars even going as far to align with imperialists to stomp on their comrades (China vs Vietnam). Furthermore, The ones that do remain have had to make massive concessions to the capitalists in order to survive.
Ultimately, neither a state or a non-state is a guarantee of defending the revolution externally or internally. The only way for a revolution to truly succeed is an internationalist effort to aid eachother regardless of tendency and allow a degree of difference to ensure such mistakes aren't repeated.
I could personally give a shit wether a revolution has a state or not, so long as it allows for accountability, autonomy and adaption while not purely giving into dogmatism or straying from the socialist road- it will survive.
<And especially how would it work on a large scale like Russia, or America again without a state and also on that how would education, healthcare, crime solving, would be managed, plus the continue fight against reactionary forces from inside or outside ?So the Zapatistas, The Rojavans, the Free Territory and Anarchist spain didn't have health care or internal security now? Come the fuck on.
Why don't you start quoting Engel's on authority while you're at it, lol.
>>2463022>fought back against the state to stop building projectswho the fuck cares about any of this shit?
>all the while communist parties in the west are just a bunch of keynesian libs at bestas retarded as the average party is youre literally some interclassist fucktard lol
>>2463003The Zionist state has ardent support from the USA and admitedly weaker support from most of EU/NATO countries. None of Palestine's potential allies, Russia, Arab countries or China are doing anything to help them, Iran has only gotten mixed results and Hezbollah failed against Israel. Meanwhile in Israel, the support for the genocide has only increased, with most of the opposition to the war simply bein due to the hostages, once they're either all dead or taken back, they'll essentially be no mainstream opposition to the genocide in Israel
Sure, among the common people troughout the world, Israel has become a sort of a pariah state, in that sense Palestinian PR did work, but in geopolitics, it doesn't really matter.
As for France and Algeria, the situation was very different, already France had a large communist and socialist movement opposed to the war, internationally the war was condemned by both sides of the cold war, and Algeria was a lot less important to France then Palestine is to Israel
>>2463022Most of those movement aren't anarchists, most of them are farmer or local movements or Gillets Jaunes inspired, they obviously have a strong working class component to it, but they're far from being solely working class and even further away from being anarchists, the larger part of them are either apolitical or support of Mélenchon, and again, it's very different from actually leading a revolution and making it survive against an international coalition trying to destroy it, or from the situation of genocide in Palestine, while the French government might be annoyed at not being able to do the project it wants to do, it doesn't impact them that much.
>>2463027>Most of those movement aren't anarchistsHence I said anarchistic, NDL airport had a core of anarchists squatting in the fields and woods. Gillets jaune was just weird rage
>>2463031 no u
>>2462661Economic ruin, the decline of production, are undeniably accompanied by the decline of healthy proletarian psychology; all of which - tending to drag the proletariat down to the level of a ragged mob and turning outstanding worker elements, with a record of productive activity, into declassed individuals - makes for a situation that more or less favours anarchist tendencies.
If communist society is a stateless society, then what, in reality, does the distinction between anarchists and marxist communists consist of?
It consists in the way production is organized: production centralised under large trusts and small, decentralised production.
We communists believe not only that the society of the future must free itself of the exploitation of man, but also that it will have to ensure for man the greatest possible independence of the nature that surrounds him, that it will reduce to a minimum "the time spent of socially necessary labour", developing the social forces of production to a maximum and likewise the productivity itself of social labour. Our ideal solution to this is centralised production, methodically organised in large units and, in the final analysis, the organisation of the world economy as a whole. Anarchists, on the other hand, prefer a completely different type of relations of production; their ideal consists of tiny communes which by their very structure are disqualified from managing any large enterprises, but reach "agreements" with one another and link up through a network of free contracts.
From an economic point of view, that sort of system of production is clearly closer to the medieval communes, rather than the mode of production destined to supplant the capitalist system. But this system is not merely a retrograde step: it is also utterly utopian. The society of the future will arise out of the old society, out of the relations created by the gigantic apparatus of finance capital. Any new order is possible and useful only insofar as it leads to the further development of the productive forces of the order which is to disappear.
>>2462661The pre-2021 Taliban was quasi-syndicalist, relying on tribal councils and committees. Many insurgent forces work this way already, they often abandon it once they are in power.
If you look at the Soviet Russian constitution, strip out Communist Party hegemony, you get a council democracy that looks a lot like what many anarchists have been advocating. I guess the real problem for anarchists is demonstrating how their anarchist isn’t basically a state with another name.
>>2463041>the greatest possible independence of the nature that surrounds himof course this bourgeois dictatorship that produces alienation is not natural, its a political choice. It was not nature that extracted the nutritional wealth of Ireland and caused their famine, it was British enslavement and colonialism
https://www.irishmetabolicrifts.com/>it is also utterly utopian"You need to work for 9 hours every day to fill the bodies of your children with microplastics" history will remember Dengoids as utopia
>>2462661Anarchism is a ideology for children who never grow up
>And especially how would it work on a large scale like Russia, or America again without a state and also on that how would education, healthcare, crime solving, would be managed, plus the continue fight against reactionary forces from inside or outside ?It can't, Anarchism will never be achieved because it's Glowie Masters use anarchism to suppress communism
>>2464417I'm going to agree with
>>2464428Oct 7 made Israel lose face. that's about it
>>2464482I meant that Israel's invasion of Lebanon and subsequent war with Hezbollah gave the opportunity for HTS to strike down the Assadists, obviously the Syrian civil war was the main factor in the fall of Assad, but before the Gaza war it seemed like he would end up winning it
Israel, as an apartheid state is obviously inherently unstable their collapse will probably happen in the not too far future, but in the current state of affairs, they're winning the wars they're involved in, and if anything, Iran and it's allies have only strenghtened Israel's cohesion in the short term, and given them the perfect opportunity to start genociding the people of Gaza and to grab land from their neighbours.
>>2464485Yeah but what comes after the collapse?
Are people truly this delusional in believing 7 million Israeli Jews will simply leave?
>>2464497>Are people truly this delusional in believing 7 million Israeli Jews will simply leave?1. That won't happen. Maybe like 10% of them will leave at most.
2. If I were Palestinian I wouldn't want Israelis to leave, because by leaving it would entail a massive brain drain. Like it or not but Israelis are highly educated. They have a huge technology sector and healthcare sector. If millions of them left it would be a disaster.
Remember, when the USSR collapsed a lot of Soviet intellectuals, doctors, scientists, and engineers left which is one reason post-Soviet Russia was in shambles. Braindrain is no joke.
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