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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Not reporting is bourgeois


File: 1757593800413.png (421.97 KB, 680x570, 1715924210048995.png)

 

why are countries like pretty much all of latin america exempt from the "settler colonial" label when they went through the exact same shit as the united states and canada lol. they fit the category quite literally yet everything those bourgeois nation states do is supported uncritically by the same third worldists calling even even the poorest shithole in europe "settler colonial"
77 posts and 9 image replies omitted.

>>2477385
The anti-anti-imperialist project: Projection

Duginismo lol

>>2477580
Can you point out where in my post I explicitly talk about hidden agendas or Judeo-Bolsheviks?
I have no way of knowing what the hell the Third Worldists in your country are advocating. Those in mine simply want the nation to industrialize so we can stop being a breadbasket that exports globally while millions of local citizens starve. They want to stop multinationals from polluting and drying up our water sources. They want to apply our own wealth to solving our structural problems, not bombing the Yankees or anything like that.

>>2477590
What you're talking about is just Dengism. Are you sure you're a "Third Worldist"?

>>2477587
>"bro words are just words bro they don't mean anything bro I am very smart"
He wrote unironically while writing words. No disrespect to potheads, but this is in all likelihood a retarded pot addict that couldn't spare us of his half-baked "wisdom". Why would you post this trash?

I have no idea what you are on
but thx fr the (you)

>>2477580
If Dugin is "the most notorious figure" (some ruskie crackpot that basically nobody cares about outside of hazite circles) associated with this imagined tendency, then you are admitting that the tendency, irrespective of how it presents itself disconnected from Dugin materially, is as irrelevant and unimportant as he is. So the question remains, why are you getting so upset about this imagined nothingburger?

>>2477596
I accept your concession
>>2477597
He's the most notorious figure precisely because he's a crackpot, meme, whatever you want to call him. Famous. If some other figure was more famous, it'd be referred to by that figure. What is your point? "Noooo you can't call the phenomenon of Blood & Soil mysticism Himmlerism, Himmler was a crackpot!". Yes, and?

File: 1757761625183-1.png (260.44 KB, 1789x714, imp decline.png)

Ah sim
We back to this
That is definitely what you should concern yourself with rn
West-leftoid

>>2477605
So Duginist, what nation-state are you representing?

^
None.
Humanity.

>>2477610
There is no "humanity" without international solidarity, try again theorylet
What nation-state are you representing in WW3?

>>2477592
In the original, mid-20th century sense of the term I am, just as any self-respecting left-wing organization in my country will be to some degree. And these ideas have permeated politics here since long before both "Dengism" and "Maoism-Third-Worldism" even existed. You will never understand such broad ideas, which can vary enormously according to the historical and geographical context of the societies where up to 85% of humanity lives, just slapping your preconceived isms as if they were countryballs.

We support whatever the enemy opposes. We oppose whatever the enemy supports.

>>2477615
You're evidently confusing anti-imperialism with Third Worldism. Lenin was not a Third Worldist. The Third Worldists have distorted both Lenin and Marx.

>>2477601
I'm saying if this the MOST famous figure you can find to describe this tendency you've found, then you are admitting that it's basically completely irrelevant, because Dugin is an extremely niche figure that nobody really cares about. If this movement was anything of importance, you'd easily be able to find far more famous and influencial people to name it after than some rando crackpot of no importance.

So again, why do you care so much about this nothingburger of yours? Acting as if this guy is the new Himmler lmao

I fear you might be very retarded

>>2477625
I don't know how tuned out of mainstream politics in America and Europe you are but Dugin has literally been covered by mainstream news media ever since the Ukraine war (at least that I am certain of, possibly before that even), he's not some "rando"
Furthermore Kautsky is a "rando" to anyone who doesn't read Lenin, were you clutching pearls when Lenin used the term Kautskyite?

>>2477582
Well Spain is pretty detestable as s country, in present times it is not as loathsome as Britain or France because it's irrelevant

>>2477623
No, you are creating a false dichotomy between closely interconnected concepts that sometimes end up being vague due to their scope. I'm talking about intellectuals like those who developed Dependency Theory (Ruy Mauro Marini, Vânia Bambirra, Theotônio dos Santos, among others), sociologists like Darcy Ribeiro, geographers like Milton Santos, politicians like Leonel Brizola, and so on. They're all associated with third-worldism in some way, and if certain anons on this site read them they'd probably shit bricks.

>>2477631
I live in Europe and no, Dugin is not some important figure in the Ukraine war. He's a talking head they pull up every now and then, very very sporadically I might add, to be like "wow ruskies so crazy", in leftist circles noone talks about him either really, again expect for perma online hazite type people. It seems you base a lot of your views on things around this kind of online shit lol.

Kautsky, was an actual influential figure in the movement, he was well respected, had a lot of support, was considered an important person. In those circles at least. Dugin is none of those things.

>>2477636
I'm well-aware of dependency theory. The part I don't get is what is "new" about it, as opposed to restating what Lenin already observed. Nor do I understand how do you go from dependency theory to the "revolutionary" act of boiling "oppressor" babies to death, among other things, but it's been a while since I last read the papers so there might be some subliminal messaging that turned Maoists into deranged reactionaries that I missed or something. Well, do *you* know?

>>2477640
He's not a "rando" on leftypol-type platforms, at the very least. The name is recognizable here. So I don't understand what is your point. If you said, hey, if you or someone else decides to coin a name for this for real, to be used outside leftypol, maybe something else fits better. I'd say that's fine. But for our purposes, here?

>>2477644
>He's not a "rando" on leftypol-type platforms, at the very least.
This is what you base your perception of people's importance/relevance on?? Lmaooo you are actually retarded bro sorry. You gonna get all upset about "Maupinism" next?

My point is you are making mountains out of molehills because of some imagined importance around Dugin, which you then somehow connect to your other imagined problems with "third worldism" (another non movement, at least in the way you are using it lol)

My recommendation is to touch grass and stop basing everything on your perma online perception of the world

>>2477650
I describe a phenomenon. I use a recognizable word. Quit playing mental gymnastics.

>>2477653
An imagined phenomenon that you get very upset and dramatic about, which was the whole point of my interjection calling you a hysterical bitch. Someone being somewhat known on leftypol does not a movement or a phenomenon make dumbass

>>2477656
"Imagined". Right. Not the logical follow-up to Maoism-TWism. Not the grievance narratives being expressed in this very thread even in the face of contradictory facts. Just my "imagination", silly me. "Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere"? It's just your "imagination" brother, no such thing as reactionaries co-opting communist rhetoric.

>>2477660
>Not the logical follow-up to Maoism-TWism
No lol, "Duganism" in so far as it can even be called a phenomenon has very little to do with MTWism or TWism lol

>Not the grievance narratives being expressed in this very thread even in the face of contradictory facts. Just my "imagination", silly me. "Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere"? It's just your "imagination" brother, no such thing as reactionaries co-opting communist rhetoric


You are such a baby lmaooo, you're like pouting about it lolol. Yes dude, you are imagining shit to be upset about, I'm sorry to tell you. You are a big baby and a drama queen comparing Dugin's "philosophy" that nobody cares about to the imperial project of fascist japan like idk how you are not embarrassed by this

>>2472755
American exceptionalism at its finest "Oh we both did genocide but because we aren't brown our genocide isn't uniquely abhorent". The Spanish were evil and so were the Anglos. All the countries in the americas are fake countries but the USA and Canada are full on extermination and replacement colonies. The very base of american culture and identity is based on the premise that murdering someone else and stealing their shit is appropriate. Never before in human history has such a value been so ingrained as it has been in the US of A. That is why americans will end up genociding themselves, its all they know so when the rest of the world tells them to fuck off with the american empire they will kill each other devouring whats left, likely involving nuclear war. Its the same reason why Isnt'real will be crushed aswell, their existences as a culture and identity are mutually contradictory with the next mode of production and so they will be annihilated. It is determined by history and all material reality, Good Riddance.

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>>2477641
>>2477660
Is it the legacy of fucking GONZALO that springs to mind when you think of Dependency Theory? Asinine perspective, man, it's a different beast. The man was influenced by Mariátegui, a thinker from a distinct tradition. In fact, we have a long-standing controversy here between the exponents of Dependency Theory and the Maoists regarding the stage of economic development our societies currently find themselves in (semifeudal or not, and so on). It's like hearing about some Palestinian intellectual circle wondering
>well, what about Daesh huh?
If you fancy yourself some kind of Marxist, then you should try to understand all the baby-boiling and puppy-hanging mainly by analyzing the contradictions in the class relations of those involved and the historical development of the region, not by digging into theorists from completely different countries in search of "subliminal messages."

>>2477663
It begins with peasants (who are actually agrarian petty-bourgeoisie if you paid attention). It shifts to "oppressed" nations. It ends at "oppressed" nation-states. Another anon quite correctly noticed the "national" porky connection.

Yeah, yeah, "fascism". Dugin's a "fascist". If that makes you happy. Not the term I'd use, but sure (I actually take a leftcom-esque position on "fascism", which is that imperialism is already a "fascism", we never stopped living in "fascism").
>>2477664
You showed up at just the right time. Are you part of my "imagination"?
>>2477669
I didn't say Gonzalo was influenced by dependency theory, rather I'm asking, what happened? Gonzalo is not a "freak accident", there's clearly some pattern between the various Maoist-TWist groupings. How'd that pattern happen?

>>2477675
>Nor do I understand how do you go from dependency theory to the "revolutionary" act of boiling "oppressor" babies to death
You did.

File: 1757770001908.jpg (6.38 KB, 441x287, source.jpg)

>>2477664
Honestly, yeah.
It may say something else in the good book or whatever. But empiria (reality and its observation) reigns supreme.
Do you even know the normative power of facts?
Bet ya don't, anglos.

>>2477675
>It begins with peasants (who are actually agrarian petty-bourgeoisie if you paid attention). It shifts to "oppressed" nations. It ends at "oppressed" nation-states.
Completely baseless assertions, you are just connecting them because it fits nicely into your imagined philosophical development. Dugin is not actually inspired or informed by MTWism, as far as I'm aware he's never even talked about it. You're just connecting them to fit this narrative you're trying to produce, without actually substantiating it with anything other than vague surface level similarities lol

>Yeah, yeah, "fascism". Dugin's a "fascist". If that makes you happy. Not the term I'd use, but sure (I actually take a leftcom-esque position on "fascism", which is that imperialism is already a "fascism", we never stopped living in "fascism").

Lmao you're now saying that Dugin's cringey crackpot philosophy is actually comparable to Japan's actual fascist imperial project, because according to you everything is fascism anyway. Do you see how your presumptions cloud any actual analysis of what is happening in the world? The comparison now extends to Japan's imperialism, maoism, followers of Dugin, etc. all these things are not really related to each other in the real world, but in your mind they're basically all part of the same thing/philosophy/phenomenon whatever

God you are retarded man, it's frustrating talking to you

>>2477680
You stated Third Worldism begins with dependency theory, a pretty uncontroversial theory if you're not Paul Cockshott as far as I can tell? I ask, how did it end up with "oppressed" nations, condemning workers of the "core" as "labor aristocrats", breaking with international solidarity, etc.?
>>2477685
You don't even understand the relation between base-superstructure and that capitalism reproduces ideology regardless of geographic, temporal, communicative, etc. barriers. You're here lecturing me and you're talking like communist theory wouldn't exist if the individual named Karl Marx wasn't born. Shut the fuck up.

>>2477694
Of course capitalism reproduced ideology regardless of geography, etc. that is not what is happening here though, you are just asserting that all those things are the same. I'm saying they arose under different conditions and are not comparable. Japan's imperialist ideology is not like Dugin's not because neither one could be fascist tendencies, but because Japan's imperialist ideology was actually important and had relevance, unlike Dugin who is just some crackpot that noone cares about outside of niche internet circles

>>2477702
I did not state that the ideology of Imperial Japan is the same as Dugin's. Else I'd be calling it Hirohitoism or something, and wouldn't link it with Third Worldism at all. I simply pointed out that vulgar anti-imperialism coming from reactionaries is about as old as Imperial Japan.
>unimportant
I don't know why you keep tunnel visioning on "importance". Left-communist currents for example aren't very "important" yet we discuss them on leftypol all the same.

>>2477694
>You stated Third Worldism begins with dependency theory
No, I didn't. If I had, it would have been a falsehood. I mentioned Dependency Theory before, along with figures who are equally Third Worldists but not necessarily adherents of it. Here in my country the term "Third Worldist" is used by academia and the media to designate a wide range of different movements, of which Maoism is just one among several others that have been way more influential here.
>"oppressed" nations
>labor aristocrats
Your choice of terms indicates much more of a problem (you) have with Maoism-TW (and Maoism itself apparently) and the Three Worlds Theory than with Third Worldism in general. Again, if you want to understand what happened in Peru, I've already pointed the way. Alternatively, you can go to /latam/ and if luck strikes, maybe a Peruvian will give you some perspective.

Bitching about “Duginism” is just Russophobia dressed up in ultra left rhetoric

>>2472794
gringo idiota, callate

>>2477709
When we discuss leftcomism we don't pretend it's more important than it is, if anything it's irrelevance is one of the main things that is brought up. You are the one trying to make Duganism a movement akin to or in line with maoism or even mtwism, as niche of a tendency as those tendencies are already, at least to some extent they are actual movements with a real history.

> vulgar anti-imperialism coming from reactionaries is about as old as Imperial Japan.

Fair enough

>>2477742
Now you are confusing Mao Zedong Thought with Maoism and Third Worldism. Oh lord. Where to even begin untangling this mess.
Maoism encompasses the writings of Chairman Mao before the Sino-Soviet split + contributing successors after the split.
Maoism-TWism is the synthesis of Maoism and Third Worldism, the Third Worldism part doesn't actually come from Mao.
Mao Zedong Thought encompasses the writings of Mao post Sino-Soviet split. Last I checked it is fringe outside China itself. Probably because it's Mao pulling a Trotsky and Gramsci, and we already have Trotsky and Gramsci at home.

Anyway, treating the "labor aristocracy" as a separate class is indeed Maoism. Condemning the workers of the "core" of all being "labor aristocrats" is not, that's TWism.

The "oppressed" nation in Maoism refers to the "people's war" revolutionary tactics, where all the "poorer" stratums of both peasants and workers unite. NOT "oppressed" nation as a sole revolutionary subject, that is TWism.

I am not surprised that Third Worldism has a different connotation in your country, I am assuming you are Latin American, they still study Marxism in a lot of LatAm economics departments, right?

I also don't get why are you focused on the Shining Path when I'm asking about TWism in general. I don't want to get lost in the weeds here. I mentioned Pol Pot, can you guess the relevance of Khmer Cambodia under him? It starts with the letter V. And it's not a coincidence.

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Something that's been on my mind that hasn't been addressed.

We are witnessing young people being radicalized towards communism in the first world. That's excellent. But simultaneously, they are being funneled towards the sort of views OP is hinting at. "The first world is a lost cause". This is obviously tantamount to sabotage of growing revolutionary energy. The question is, what is to be done?

I read an American Maoist article from 2007. It expressed the notion that Americans will never question Israel's action. That, today, is obviously outdated. Similarly, I read that J. Sakai was interviewed somewhere in the 2000s or 2010s if I recall, and actually expressed the view that he doesn't think his thesis in Settlers regarding white American workers is true anymore. Yet Settlers continues to be recommended all over the internet to these young people being radicalized, more recommended than freaking Marx and Lenin.

>>2479469
>Yet Settlers continues to be recommended all over the internet to these young people being radicalized, more recommended than freaking Marx and Lenin.
I honestly don't think this is true, it's really quite obscure

westoids are so fucking retarded

>>2477745
stealth trvke

>>2479469
Stop donating to comprador leftists who don't believe in revolution. Realize that the youtuber and streamer class are counter revolutionary. Black ball them.

>>2479503
I mean did you see the fallout on the ChapoTrapHouse subreddit when Sanders got "robbed". "Read Settlers libs" x1000. They just took over the entire sub before it got banned. I think even the mods were in on it as anyone questioning the Settlers narrative got banned. The situation has not changed much in the spin-offs.


>>2479989
I was there and this never happened? lol? I have literally never seen anyone recommend settlers unironically, and never on reddit in any capacity, it's usually obscure shitholes like this one. I genuinely think you've been thrown for a loop by an inside joke dude.

>>2479989
wasnt that like over a decade ago

>>2480042
Half a decade ago 😭😭😭😭


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