Worst place to bring this stuff up (besides /pol/ I guess), but I'm a succdem/demsucc I guess (I'm not really into labels) and first learned about /leftypol/ from seeing an ad for it on Jacobin of all places (which is bizarre given leftypol's disdain for democractic socialists and Jacobin but idk wht that happened, maybe others can tell me). Having skimmed through it, I realized this isn't the right place for someone like me given it's mainly MLs and hardline commies here, and if I'm being honest, I find them to be irrelevant fringe morons that I don't wanna get involved with. What are some better places for a shithead succdem/demsucc disillusioned and frustrated with the state of politics in America and the world post-2020/2024 to bitch online about it and shit on leftists (especially American leftists) for being ineffectual dipshits who couldn't enact change if their lives depended on it? Like, is there a democratic socialist equivalent to leftypol that may be better for someone in my position, if such a thing even exists? I'm probably gonna get told to kill myself, but I may as well ask since I assume a lot of you guys were in a similar position in their political journey as I am, and I'm curious to see what you guys say.
>>2479065r/liberal
r/neoliberal
>>2479065Do it here and tell people to fuck off when they bitch back at you. /Leftypol/ used to have a diverse range of left and leftish ideologies but a succession of stupid decisions reduced it to the retarded monoculture we see today. It's not even fair to call it ML dominated since these nobooks idiots don't even know anything about how to be Stalinists.
Socdem gang was the greatest meme this place ever produced and I'm tired of pretending it wasn't.
>>2479277I mean, I have an ex-leftist friend that became disillusioned with the American left post-2020 who went through the revolutionary communist to post-leftist to right wing/right-libertarian left-to-right schizo rabbit hole (similar to the one people like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, RFK Jr, Red Scare podcast, etc. went down), so forgive me for being hestitant to get out of that bubble (especially with personal issues I want to sort out that I want to go into detail here). My friend's fine nowadays, and seems to have cooled down and stabilized more politically (he's not really leftist per se, but he is pro-Palestine and very critical of the US establishment and other political establishments around the world), though I try to talk about other stuff and be respectful if we disagree on stuff.
>>2479437I'd say I'm more dem soc than soc dem. I don't believe social democracy alone will end inequality and the pendulum could easily swing back in the future (just look at Europe post-Cold War), and that we need to go farther than that, but I do like social democratic policies like the welfare state are great and should be pursued on a path away from capitalism (or at least the current neoliberal form of capitalism). Also, while they're obviously not the same thing, there was a lot of overlap between democratic socialists and social democrats historically, at least in Europe, with the policies they were pursuing.
>>2479550yes, I legit saw an ad for leftypol on Jacobin's site one time. I have no idea why, it just popped up one time.
>>2479709ruh roh
< I cannot see how you can speak of the ignorance of the masses in Germany after the brilliant evidence of political maturity shown by the workers in their victorious struggle against the Anti-Socialist Law. The patronizing and errant lecturing of our so-called intellectuals seems to me a far greater impediment. We are still in need of technicians, agronomists, engineers, chemists, architects, etc., it is true, but if the worst comes to the worst we can always buy them just as well as the capitalists buy them, and if a severe example is made of a few of the traders among them — for traders there are sure to be — they will find it to their own advantage to deal fairly with us. But apart from the specialists, among whom I also include schoolteachers, we can get along perfectly well without the other “intellectuals.” The present influx of literati and students into the party, for example, may be quite damaging if these gentlemen are not properly kept in check.
< The biggest obstacles are the small peasants and the importunate super-clever intellectuals who always think they know everything so much the better, the less they understand it. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1890/letters/90_08_21.htm >>2479714*meant to say "won't go into detail here", this is why I should proofread these before posting
>>2479689Nice to hear.
>>2479706Soyjak party? Aren't those dudes more reactionary than even 4chan? And that's saying something since for all the stupid right-wing takes, racism towards brown people, and constant hatred of trans people, I've seen at least *some* opinions voiced on the left side of the political spectrum, and I have somewhat of a slight spot for it. Soyjak party just seems downright unpleasant
>>2479749Yeah irl stuff like speaking at their local churches youth group, teaching at sunday school, volunteering at their local christian food bank, spreading the love of christ through agitation and propaganda, and doing street preaching about the evils of sin and vice, while promoting anti-pornography ngo's. the mods are
very busy.
>>2479065well, you're a lib, so that simply means pretty much every mainstream place on internet is for you. Reddit, lemmy, even facebook, go sell your slop in the marketplace of idea in the deluded hope you will vooot hard enough that the masters of the world will give up their power for the common good or some stupid shit like that.
>being ineffectual dipshits who couldn't enact change if their lives depended on it? well played, you just described yourself. When have rosa killers ever accomplished anything without actual radicals threatening the actual power structure? their whole shtick is saving the system by getting concessions when there is real danger of change, and then seeing their concessions reverted when the radicals have become small enough thanks to the backstab.
>a lot of you guys were in a similar position in their political journey as I amI was radicalized pretty early through family and then reading books, and leftypol cemented it
>>2479714>Glenn Greenwaldnot following closely but how is that guy on the right? seemed pretty clearly a principled leftist
>he's not really leftist per se, but he is pro-Palestine and very critical of the US establishment and other political establishments around the worldso if hes not on the left… libertarian retard?
>should be pursued on a path away from capitalism (or at least the current neoliberal form of capitalism)yeah you should read some books from marxists, theres a reason socdem doesnt work
>>2479065>it's mainly MLs and hardline commies here, and if I'm being honest, I find them to be irrelevant fringe morons that I don't wanna get involved witOP do you have any reasons for rejecting communism other than leftover cold war boomer red scare shit? You can be a demsoc and a marxist maybe you should read Marx's analysis of capital and it would only be strengthen your arguments against capitalism.
I mean if you actually have reasons for rejecting Marxism that are intellectual but just finding it "fringe" is another thing, for one thing even socdem, let alone demsoc is "fringe" to 95%+ of people in the US for example.
<I mean, I have an ex-leftist friend that became disillusioned with the American left post-2020 who went through the revolutionary communist to post-leftist to right wing/right-libertarian left-to-right schizo rabbit hole (similar to the one people like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, RFK Jr, Red Scare podcast, etc. went down), so forgive me for being hestitant to get out of that bubble (especially with personal issues I want to sort out that I want to go into detail here). My friend's fine nowadays, and seems to have cooled down and stabilized more politically (he's not really leftist per se, but he is pro-Palestine and very critical of the US establishment and other political establishments around the world), though I try to talk about other stuff and be respectful if we disagree on stuff.I have also met weird people like this but TBH they base their ideas more on vibes and whatever youtube/tiktok content influencer they like in current year. Probably not a good way to determine ideology.
Again, maybe try skimming a reading guide for capital or something and see if you actually agree or disagree with Marx anti capitalism or not I think you would probably be in agreement with alot of it.
>>2479916Said friend does actually read a lot of books, though, including ones on leftist theory (idk which ones specifically), and I barely read any books myself - I'd rather be playing video games or watching movies, honestly, though I do try to read books at least for screen breaks. He once told me as he read more stuff, he realized there were things that he found wrong about leftist theory and drifted away from leftism. Idk much else, and I didn't bother to ask further since it seemed like a bad idea to do so.
>>2480081Lucky you. I'd say I'm generally pretty progressive-leaning, even despite my internet anti-SJW phase growing up. But ultimately, I'm just a guy who saw and read a bunch of shit online that pushed me leftward, so I don't consider it as concrete as, say, reading leftist theory.
>>2480093After the whole Intercept Hunter Biden scandal in the 2020 election, Greenwald left the Intercept and bent towards a right-libertarian streak by talking about free speech constantly to appeal to the right and hosts a show on Rumble, which probably tells you all you need to know. People on the online left basically disowned him, calling him a grifter who only got the big leaks he's known for from other people and disseminated them. I find the whole thing sad, for while Greenwald could be annoying, it's unfortunate that he turned towards the right and the online left (well, thr demsoc left at least, idk about you recolutionary types) jumped straight to calling him a grifter instead of being more introspective or concerned, like asking "Man, it's not good that our progressive/leftist allies are drifting towards the right during a time fascism is taking over. Should we try to be more understanding and combat this without being so uncharitable?", and instead they're like "Nah, it's just grifting. Not like there's any trends here whatsoever!" Like, the only meaningful thing I've seen on that phenomenon was Naomi Klein's "Doppelganger" (idk what people here think of her - I'm assuming they probably don't like her much), even if it's probably not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. But I'm rambling on again about stupid tangential shit.
>>2482246>our progressive/leftist allies>fascism taking overIt sounds like I'm watching CNN. Much like Greenwald, your entire thought process is within the fake American "left vs right" liberal vs conservative capitalist spectrum. Greenwald got pushed out of your side by the histrionics and political gaslighting of your types over the past few years. Really you and the "fascist conservatives" you scream about daily have much more in common, politically, with each other than you have to anybody here who wants to challenge capitalism in any real way.
>>2482369The grift is just as profitable on the so-called American "left." Maybe even moreso.
>>2482639*freikorps you*
nothing personal kid it's time for actually existing socialism
>>2482246>talking about free speech constantly to appeal to the right I mean, its not my jam, but I dont see the problem as long as its all he does to "appeal to the right"
>hosts a show on Rumble, which probably tells you all you need to know. as a non burger, I dont even understand what that means. Googling it it just seem like a video platform of rightists, but thats hardly damning
>People on the online left basically disowned himlike who, cunts on twitter? who cares
>idk what people here think of her havent read her books but I am familiar with some of her concepts, which can be interesting but afaik shes also a worthless socdem anticommunist, so someone who can see some obvious problems with capitalism but cant actually understand how to solve it and is useless (or worse) for the real struggles (and prolly dont understand shit on imperialism and geopolitics)
>>2482961This image is retarded on its own terms. British Labour betrayed socialism in 1994? Not 1977 (IMF loan, abandoned deal with the unions), not during the Korean war? Not during the Malayan 'emergency'?
(Britain and Labour were only arguably socdem from ~1970-1976. Before then, warfare ate up more spending than welfare. After then, neoliberalism.)
Not that any of this matters to why socdem gang was funny (partially due to these contradictions, and those of the lame, mild mannered socdem ideology running up against being a 'gang')
>>2479271>>2480294redditors are really stupid and cringey though when it comes to political discourse (well, at least in the non-leftist subreddits, but I wouldnt be surprised if they shared similar cringey attitudes); idk where to even start. Maybe they're just younger and more naive, but they have this awkward scoldy self-hating left-leaning libby naivete to them that I find annoying to read. Like, when I see stupid shit like "Aww man, Trump and America are so bad!!!! Should I put a Canadian flag over my American backpack and pretend I'm Canadian instead of being American when I travel abroad so people don't hate me?", it makes me roll my eyes. Petty example, but I'm pretty sure people who say that shit have never traveled. I've actually traveled abroad, including to Europe multiple times (was in central Europe earlier this year - visited Austria, Germany, and a few other countries, lotta fun), and nobody gives a shit if you're American; at worst, you'll probably get a snarky comment or something. It's moronic educated middle-class/upper-middle class libby attitudes that I hate seeing from people who claim to be left, and I'M basically exactly that from you guys' perspective ironically enough. Though I guess at least I'm aware of it, for what it's worth…
>>2479065r/democrats would suit you nicely.
Please stay out of socialist communities, I watched you guys completely take over a libertarian socialist sub (I'm not arguing ideology here) and started mass downvoting and reporting any post critical of the democrats. They were constantly complaining about "tankies" when they were ironically sucking off a warmonger presidential candidate. Really just embodying the SPD there.
>>2484628This place fucking sucks………….
I take it back OP, get out while you still can this place is not a place of honor… no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here… nothing valued is here.
Unique IPs: 47