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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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Not reporting is bourgeois


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When the left talks about Zionism:
>stress the need to end the genocide
>stress the need for palestinian sovereignty
>stress the capitalist/imperialist nature of the zionist project
>stress the complicity of western leaders
>can distinguish between zionist and anti-zionist jews
>historical materialist approach

When the right talks about Zionism:
<stress the jews
<stress how the based whites in the past warned you about the jews
<stress how western governments and officials are controlled by the jews and not fully responsible for their own actions
<don't really care about palestine or genocide, just want to stop the jews
<stress the "judeobolshevik" nature of the zionist project
<cannot distinguish between zionist and anti-zionist jews or insists that such a distinction is statistically irrelevant
<ahistorical idealist approach

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>Always deflect all criticisms of Israel.
>Israel lobby doesn't exist
>"Actually, when you really look at it, Israelis are the victim of American imperialism."
>Can't engage in a good faith argument
>Only thing they can argue with is the strawman they invent.
>"ooooohh I'm repoooooorrrting!"
>Get's BTFO in argument, makes a new thread to vaguepost about the previous discussion they got BTFO in.

>when the left
Stopped reading right there. Communism isn’t “the left”. Not once do Marx, Engels, Lenin, or any other communist leader or theorist ever refer to themselves as “left wing” or “leftists”. We couldn’t give a rat’s ass about the impotent whining of the left wing of capital

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>>2481021
We are leftypol, get your ass back to reddit if you wanna play games, faggot.

>>2481024
An unfortunate artifact from the early years of this board when it was dominated by Rojavafags, anarchists, and other CIA approved “socialists”. But you already know that

>>2481019
Antigermans arent leftwing

>>2481021
>Stopped reading right there. Communism isn’t “the left”.
i knew one of you would do this sectarian gotcha garbage but didn't feel like pre-emptively striking it in the OP. My strategic mistake. we are on LEFTYpol dot org, an anti-sectarian website with anti-sectarianism in its rules, and there is a general coalition of antizionists which include arab nationalists, communists, socialists and plenty of people not affiliated with any particular movement.

>>2481019
>antideutsche
reactionaries

>>2481035
Belle époque French Ultranationalists must be turning over in their tomb knowing that their ideological successors are germans

>>2481037
See >>2481028
“Anti-sectarianism” has always been code for “allow left anti-communist slop to be posted with impunity” and frankly as a Marxist you should be embarrassed to group yourself in with petite bourgeois college students who LARP as revolutionaries while parroting every CIA narrative

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>>2481028
>Rojavafags, anarchists,
You can piss and whine all you like but we never left.

>>2481014
>stress how western governments and officials are controlled by the jews and not fully responsible for their own actions
I think this is the main thing. But even more than Western governments and officials not being fully responsible, they also absolve themselves. Like just the whole concept that "we" (Westerners, including our political leaders, our own traditions) are responsible for political choices exits the picture here.

It's very Christian too. Nick Fuentes plays up the Christian angle but it's all about absolution. It also looks radical (and it can have radical aesthetics) as a form of expression, because you're not supposed to "name the Jew," but in practice or substance it's not radical at all but deeply conservative and pro-systemic. In fact, these people have been in the business of promoting nationalism and authoritarianism for years. A bunch of these guys have memed Trump as an edgy figure but he's the most pro-Israel president the U.S. has ever had. They're not responsible for that! Oh no! It's da Joo! Someone else always bears the weight of the sin.

BTW, I've been emphasizing the role of military-industrial production. Israel is a major hub for arms development and testing which ties directly into Western military production chains. War is like a sphere of capital accumulation in itself with Zionism as an important node between that structural system of production and geopolitical strategy. The same goes for border security technology which is getting vast investments now by the Republican Congress. You better believe that /pol/ supports that, and Israeli companies are making a lot of money off it, because Israel was like the model for it in the first place, and these people will – ultimately – always rally around politicians who materially reinforce what I'm talking about without feeling any contradiction or hypocrisy in doing so.

Don't worry, it's all in God's hands anyways.

Also look at how they reacted to Charlie Kirk's death. He was a very pro-Israel guy, and at the end of the day /pol/ threatened to bring a boogaloo down on our asses because some gamer shot him.

Some of them will try to meme that Kirk was going to turn against Israel and that's why the Jews killed him. That's a ludicrous idea, and Kirk was an organizer and fundraiser for the Republicans, but IMO he also needed to be a bit edgy, and he knew that there are right-wing zoomers who pestered him for years about Israel. He could say something about that and "let's have a debate about it" and settle it in the "marketplace of ideas."

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>>2481041
>“Anti-sectarianism” has always been code for “allow left anti-communist slop to be posted with impunity”
stop derailing this thread which is about anti-zionism with this irrelevant garbage. Arab nationalists aren't (usually) communists and yet we show conditional support and solidarity with their anti-zionist struggles. If you have a problem with anti-sectarianism why are you even on this site?
>you should be embarrassed to group yourself in with petite bourgeois college students
in the USA it is so reactionary that the workers will sometimes beat up the college students for being too anti-imperialist

>>2481059
> A bunch of these guys have memed Trump as an edgy figure but he's the most pro-Israel president the U.S. has ever had.
eh. him and biden are neck and neck. it's a very close race. I think biden saying "were there not an israel we would have to invent one" in the 80s might even put him in first place

>>2481059
Why do you guys only argue that Israel has no influence in US politics? Ok, if we look at whatever clowns talking about Jew World Order and shit, it's a bit outlandish, especially whatever caricature you want to make of it: >I ran over a nail, the Jews must be behind it!
Ok. That's silly, but your counterargument is:
>Actually if you read my convoluted list of non-sequitrs, I'd argue that Israel has no influence over US politics!

>BTW, I've been emphasizing the role of military-industrial production. Israel is a major hub for arms development and testing which ties directly into Western military production chains. War is like a sphere of capital accumulation in itself with Zionism as an important node between that structural system of production and geopolitical strategy. The same goes for border security technology which is getting vast investments now by the Republican Congress. You better believe that /pol/ supports that, and Israeli companies are making a lot of money off it, because Israel was like the model for it in the first place, and these people will – ultimately – always rally around politicians who materially reinforce what I'm talking about without feeling any contradiction or hypocrisy in doing so.

All this bullshit has nothing to do with anything. The Zionist project, and the Zionist infiltration of the US government started long before Israel manufactured a single weapon. Their infiltration and influence over our government is the reason the Israeli arms industry exists, not the other way around.

>>2481065
>Some of them will try to meme that Kirk was going to turn against Israel and that's why the Jews killed him. That's a ludicrous idea, and Kirk was an organizer and fundraiser for the Republicans, but IMO he also needed to be a bit edgy, and he knew that there are right-wing zoomers who pestered him for years about Israel. He could say something about that and "let's have a debate about it" and settle it in the "marketplace of ideas."
I don't believe Israel killed him, but he was starting to turn on them. His last interview he did, posted the day before he died was with Ben Shapiro where Ben was coming at him "Platforming anti-Zionists/anti-semites" or something in some debate he did. I saw some clips him pressing them on the immoral nature of what they're doing in Gaza or whatever. I believe he may have even told some people he believed Israel was going to kill him like Max Blumenthal claimed, but I find it highly unlikely. Seems to me like there would be a lot more dead influencers if that was the case.

>>2481073
>Why do you guys only argue that Israel has no influence in US politics?
strawman. they absolutely do. but burger politicians are still guilty for doing things that they can be blackmailed with, and they are still guilty for taking bribes, and they are still guilty for helping israel commit this genocide. The difference is between influence and control. Puppet has always been a lowbrow political metaphor because these puppets are in fact capable of making their own decisions and saying no. They don't like the consequences and are selfish so they choose to take bribes and get blackmailed instead.

>>2481014
Wow it's almost like principles and class politics matter or something.

>>2481019
>Israel lobby doesn't exist
The Israel lobby does exist, but this doesn't make Israel (let alone Jews) a dominant force over the US. Israel is a outgrowth of US and British imperialism, and any lobbying done by it is still aimed at pushing that imperialism. The "Zionist occupied government" (ZOG) thesis being pushed by the fascist right and modern "left" strasserites is nothing more than a "politically correct" rearticulation of the fascist and antisemitic "global Jewry" conspiracy theory.

>>2481074
>guilty
I think this is the crux of the issue. You guys only think in some kind of terms of moralism or whatever.

>If you say that Israel has a lot of influence over US politics, and a lot of the bad shit that the US has done and continues to do in support of Israel is largely a result of that influence…

>That means you're absolving them of guilt!

I don't even look at things in that kind of moralistic paradigm so I don't even know how to argue about it. I feel like you're trying to make me have a serious discussion about the karma of the US, Germans, Jews, Arabs, whatever. I don't believe in the abstract concepts that you view the situation through.

>>2481075
>this doesn't make Israel (let alone Jews) a dominant force over the US. Israel is a outgrowth of US and British imperialism, and any lobbying done by it is still aimed at pushing that imperialism. The "Zionist occupied government" (ZOG) thesis being pushed by the fascist right and modern "left" strasserites is nothing more than a "politically correct" rearticulation of the fascist and antisemitic "global Jewry" conspiracy theory.
Lmao. You missed the other part of the post:
>>2481019
>Can't engage in a good faith argument
>Only thing they can argue with is the strawman they invent.

>>2481093
If we're going to talk about guilt in a legal sense. If someone bribes a politician to do something for them, the politician and the person bribing them are both guilty. I don't see why it follows that saying our politicians are bought and paid for by the Zionists is "absolving them of guilt."

>>2481094
>Can't engage in a good faith argument
I am always suspicious any time someone states their own argument to be "good faith" without either saying what their argument was or explaining how exactly the strawman presented is a misrepresentation of their argument. 9 times out of 10 vague appeals to "good faith" are made in bad faith. That's why I ignored that part of the post, and instead presented an argument against a right-wing tendency I have seen on this board that's relevant to this discussion.

>>2481106
Just pointing out your type's tendency to strawman.
>If you disagree with me about the Israel US relationship you are a Nazi!
It's tiresome. Yoi could just present your argument without throwing in the strawman everytime.

>>2481112
>your type's
My type? What exactly is that? Am I the strawman now?

>>2481028
Still here islamist

>>2481114
I pointed out your behavior specifically.
>The Israel lobby does exist, but this doesn't make Israel (let alone Jews) a dominant force over the US. Israel is a outgrowth of US and British imperialism, and any lobbying done by it is still aimed at pushing that imperialism.
This argument is dumb but I was pointing out how you specifically did the thing I mentioned in the post you replied to:
>The "Zionist occupied government" (ZOG) thesis being pushed by the fascist right and modern "left" strasserites is nothing more than a "politically correct" rearticulation of the fascist and antisemitic "global Jewry" conspiracy theory.
Couldn't just let your argument stand for itself, immediately had to write the footnote:
>And if you disagree, you're Hitler!

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Really, I think if you want to counter ZOG arguments, the most effective way would actually be honest about the Zionists and how much influence they have over US politics instead of doing the Zionists work for them by saying pointing their influence in American politics is inherently antisemitic conspiracy.


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