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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Not reporting is bourgeois


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Why is the ruling class so allergic to Social Democracy?

THEY'RE the ones who created the damn thing in the first place. It works perfectly, you buy off the workers with stable jobs, healthcare and housing, and they'll become so loyal they would even die by the millions for your insane wars like what happened in WW1 and WW2.

The crazy thing is that abandoning it resulted in a shitty society EVEN for them. Now they have to live in countries filled with urban blight, constant violence, class tensions, constant chaos. They have to constantly do all kinds of political manouevering to keep this shit under control, when simply giving up a fraction of profits to maintain SocDem would do the trick.

Now don't give me the bullshit of "oh they cant afford it any longer". Literally just go look at the financial statements of any company in the Forbes 2000. They still make billions in profit. It makes no sense at all. Its like they deliberately want to enshitten their own existence for no reason. Are the ruling class retarded? Or is there something else going on here that we're missing?

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>>2489834
>Why is the ruling class so allergic to Social Democracy?
It's dysfunctional softcore fascism for crisis situation damage control to stagnate exponential capital growth by appealing to the false conscious workers rather than the productive forces which unrestrained growth has done more for than the regulatory metrics.

Maybe the ruling class, especially the western ruling class and its alcolytes, likes chaos and destruction. Maybe they like toying with the lives of millions and potentially billions. It probably makes them feel like gods which truthfully I think most people have that type of thinking. Except that at most for most people they only get to rule over a family unit while a select few get to run nations and systems of order and governance. Especially given the tremendous amount of power that these people attained and clawed back over the last few decades they have become more cocky in their attitudes and that's very dangerous.

>>2489834
because social democracy is only meant to be a temporary concession. After a generation or 2 you roll it back and implement austerity. Why? Profit rates. Profit rates fall as the organic composition of capital changes to have more constant capital and less variable capital. This is such an essential contradiction of capitalism that cannot be solved. So to maintain falling rates of profit the bourgeoisie re-introduce austerity, privatization, union busting, imperialist wars, all while rolling back social democracy. They will give up the one thing preventing revolution and civil war because they're that afraid of the profit rate hitting zero, or close to it.

>>2489850
>everyone is secretly evil and has yaldabaothic energies
idealist answer rooted in superstructure and vibes rather than base. rolling back social democracy is how they keep the rate of profit from falling. it's that simple.

everytime i hear the word "superstructure" i cringe. even marx only uses it one time.

>>2489874
not an argument

>>2489876
wasnt meant to be an argument.

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>>2489834
>Why is the ruling class so allergic to Social Democracy?
Because in the 1970s, when the crisis of the post-war Keynesian consensus came to a head, the bourgeois chose guns over butter. Then, they won big in 1991. The memory and fear of ending up like the Romanovs or the French Bourbons has passed. The people in charge today now don't have the competence or intelligence that their predecessors did. They unironically believe they'll be immortal demi-gods living on Mars while we're all extinct. You're not even dealing with trust-fund children; you're dealing with the children of trust-fund children.

>>2489872

is wars truly a capitalist motive? you destruct and build, sell weapons, which provides growth etc. but in the short term its shit for profits

>>2489834
>why are capitalists acting like capitalists
because they obey the logic of capital, its both in their immediate material interest and the whole system is set up so they follow the logic of capital, and if they dont, they're replaced by new capitalist that do

>abandoning it resulted in a shitty society EVEN for them

you seem to think ruling class share the same world as normal people. They dont. In their world, they dont do their dishes, they dont wash their clothes, they dont clean their houses, they dont cook their meals, they dont drive except for pleasure, they dont work, they dont go out among people without protection

>simply giving up a fraction of profits

a capitalist doesnt do this unless it is forced to. Its the logic of capital.

Read marx, or ian wright on capital as a true god

>>2490064
>but in the short term its shit for profits
its absolutely not, unless its specifically your shit thats getting bombed and the government doesnt pay for your losses, which only happens if you loose (and even then not necessarily, see the steel and chemical companies of the nazis)

tendency of the rate of profit to fall. ultimately, whether they recognize whats happening or not, capitalists are incentivized to cannibalize their own sources of stability. austerity and war are clear examples of this but it also includes longer term political shifts away from legitimacy of social security and public services


Capitalist elites kill off social democracy when it creates conditions that lead to powerful uprisings.

For a theoretical understanding of this, see Michal Kalecki on the political implications of full employment: https://mronline.org/2010/05/22/political-aspects-of-full-employment/

TLDR, reducing fear of unemployment means workers have more power, and typically want to have a say in not just the terms of their work (wages, working conditions) but also in what work is done and how.

This was true both in the USA and France, which were part of the massive upheavals of 1968. Broadly affluent societies with inexpensive higher education meant a mass of widely educated people who didn't have too worry too much about where their next meal was coming from. That created a restive group of people who wanted more than just a house in the suburbs and 9 to 5 job. It also meant that previously excluded ethnic minorities looked on at what was available to the ethnic majority and wanted in as well, with some not small number achieving some kind of fiscal stability, and able to have the leisure time to stir shit up and contribute to organizations like SNCC, the Black Panthers, and the various Black churches.

So the answer was to crush broad based prosperity and make people desperate and then tell them that it was virtuous to turn society into a winner take all shitshow.

>>2490146
this is also true. didnt nixon or someone say something to the effect that student loans would help reduce dissidence among students and the middle class? regardless of whether it was intentional it certainly worked out that way

>Why is the bourgoiesie allergic to things that cost them money as a class in a system that due to its fundamental functioning decreases profitability year over year.
Start with the basics, go read Marx again.

>>2490153
One of Nixon's advisors (who also worked for Reagan)
See: https://theintercept.com/2022/08/25/student-loans-debt-reagan/
Ironically this asshole's name was Roger Freeman

>“We are in danger of producing an educated proletariat. … That’s dynamite! We have to be selective on who we allow [to go to college].”

>>2489834
Because any attack on their wealth, even if it is a mere compromise with capital, is dangerous to the ruling class and/or perceived as a danger.

This is the same ruling class which overthrew the social democracy envisioned by Gough Whitlam in Australia, and it's the same ruling class which seeks to destroy Venezuala. Because god forbid you create an economy that actually holds capital accountable and has it strictly enforced by a governing body.

Any government which confronts capital will have capital confront it.

>>2490216
also this

>>2489834
There were plenty of capitalists who would have preferred to keep the Fordist compromise in place forever. Who disliked offshoring their businesses or selling them off to private equity firms to be asset-stripped. But they were overruled and it happened anyways. Because the imperative for capital accumulation must be obeyed, regardless of what the people want.
>They still make billions in profit
Yes because neoliberalism WORKED. It raised profit rates in the developed world, albeit temporarily and at a great human cost.

>>2490413
yup there you go lmao couldnt ask for a more blatant admission

>>2491734
you should consider suicide

>>2489872
has anyone ever proven the falling rate of profit? I knows there has been studies on it that have been conflicting. Also doesn't Okishio's theorem disprove it?

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>Why is the ruling class so allergic to Social Democracy?

>>2491778
Okishio's theorem is
1. only one of several ways the rate of profit can increase, some of which were mentioned by Marx
2. fringe even within this group of events, that only works with certain elements (cost-cutting) and cannot fundamentally alter the main issue Marx gets at (technological overhauls)

>>2491778
Okishio himself has stated that if any of his assumptions for the theorem are altered, the rate of profit actually falls. And his assumptions are pretty much impossible to hold in a real economy for a sustained period of time.

>THEY'RE the ones who created the damn thing in the first place
People need to stop with this. The ruling class didn't engineer social democracy ahead of time as part of some grand conspiracy. They were dragged kicking and screaming into it by the labour movement and begrudgingly tolerated it because of the Soviet threat. Like it or not it was a worker's movement, and the bourgeoisie dismantled it as soon as they possibly could. They didn't even wait for the USSR to die before they started.

>>2491882
Wrong. Social democracy has always been petty-bourgeois deviation. Social democracy as phenomenon long predates soviet. Marx and Engels did not write democrat socialist manifesto. Communism is proletarian.

>>2491899
>Social democracy has always been petty-bourgeois deviation.
If that were true the Nazis wouldn't have sent them to camps, and the business plot wouldn't have tried to overthrow FDR. It's a right deviation but that doesn't mean it ceases to be a predominantly proletarian movement rooted in organized industrial workers.

>>2491783
It's taking FOREVER for the labor aristocracy to proletarianize. I'm sick of waiting for the rate of profit to fall.

>>2491778
>has anyone ever proven the falling rate of profit?
The tendency of the rate of profit to fall is general and global but there are countervailing tendencies, and wars destroy the productive forces, i.e. both constant capital and variable capital, so profit rates actually go back up during a reconstruction.

>>2490064
>is wars truly a capitalist motive? you destruct and build, sell weapons, which provides growth etc. but in the short term its shit for profits

Read Chapter 3 of Fascism and Social Revolution by Rajani Palme Dutt. I shill it all the time on here but it is so clear about this. Read the entire chapter. It was written in the 1930s in a pre-WW2 climate but I think its content is still relevant today, especially the observations about capitalism in a state of crisis.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/dutt/1935/fascism-social-revolution-3.pdf



>>2491902
>If that were true the Nazis wouldn't have sent them to camps, and the business plot wouldn't have tried to overthrow FDR. It's a right deviation but that doesn't mean it ceases to be a predominantly proletarian movement rooted in organized industrial workers.
These are inter-bourgeois power struggles. And you dare say social democracy is proletarian?
>if hitler werent a threat to bourgeois rule, then he wouldnt have been locked up
Wrong. Social democracy is not proletarian at all. Social democracy = fascism. Read https://www.marxists.org/history/international/comintern/6th-congress/ch06.htm
The Programme of the Comintern Sixth Congress 1929 PART VI. The Strategy and Tactics of the Communist International in the Struggle for the Dictatorship of the Proletariat. SECTION 1. IDEOLOGIES AMONG THE WORKING CLASS INIMICAL TO COMMUNISM states that social-democracy is utterly bourgeois deviation from Communism which is imposed by imperialist bourgeois and petty-bourgeois. AS CLEARLY STATED, social democracy is the chief deviation from Communism.

>>2489834
Look how social democracy is implemented in the liberal cities. It's fucking crazy. In NYC the city was paying Cuomo's relatives like 1000 dollars a week or something obscene like that to house homeless in the worst shelters imaginable. This country is corrupt top to bottom. The only thing they can do is squeeze us harder and harder trying to get the last drop of juice til it falls apart.

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>>2491783
What does this graph mean? That the rate of profit keeps falling slower and slower and ultimately won't reach zero? Was this supposed to prove that the rate of profit will hit zero any day now? Because it shows the opposite.

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>>2491902
>[social democracy after 1914 is a] predominantly proletarian movement rooted in organized industrial workers.
right deviating post
>>2491978
>Social democracy is not proletarian at all. Social democracy = fascism.
left deviating post.

>>2491981
Did you read to the end of the paragraph?
> "[a]ll told, Bismarck's system was a massive success—except in one respect. His goal to keep the Social Democratic Party out of power utterly failed. The vote for the Social Democratic Party went up and by 1912 they were the biggest party in the Reichstag

>>2491983
AES established, mission accomplished

>>2491984
>AES established, mission accomplished
Just like the USSR.

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>>2491986
Too soon

>>2489872
Whats the source for the graph?

>>2492010
it's too pixelated. you can't even read it. it's a meme.

>>2491980
the RoP might level out, yes. but Porky is also likely to pork out and start another global war in order to push the RoP back up. the wild card is nooks
barring war, what I suspect will happen is that Porky simply stops investing when the RoP gets too low

>>2492091
You do realise the portly is the whole American population right?

>>2492094
turd worldism detected


>>2492091
>the RoP might level out, yes. but Porky is also likely to pork out and start another global war in order to push the RoP back up. the wild card is nooks
barring war
But nobody would profit in global thermonuclear war. Companies' values are just fictitious numbers in the stock market. How would tanking the market(not to mention destroying civilization)be profitable?
>>2492091
> what I suspect will happen is that Porky simply stops investing when the RoP gets too low
What else can they do with their money? I think they will start investing more of their money into land lording instead though, and those will become more profitable as compared to business before. But then again the governments could easily pass laws to stop them from that, but they won't, at least in America. China recently dealt with similar issues with the real estate market.

>>2492188
>But nobody would profit in global thermonuclear war
yes they would. thermonuclear war would destroy immense amounts of fixed capital
>How would tanking the market(not to mention destroying civilization)be profitable?
read Capital. nooks -> fixed part of constant capital destroyed -> lower OCC -> higher RoP. Porky doesn't care if 90% of the population dies in the process
>I think they will start investing more of their money into land lording instead though
yes. we're already seeing signs of this. rentierism is on the rise
>governments could easily pass laws to stop them from that
not in bourgeois nations

>>2492188
They'll just invest the money in lobbying for subsidies. The figleaf between the state and the monopolies will dissolve even further. But you have to see the welfare state and public infrastructure as factoring into the OCC anyhow. So big porky will cannibalize little porky: small homeowners, small businesses and so on.

>>2491981
Wrong. Social democracy is 100%bourgeois. This is a fact, not left deviation. Read The Programme of the Communist International. Comintern Sixth Congress 1929 SECTION VI. The Strategy and Tactics of the Communist International in the Struggle for the Dictatorship of the Proletariat PART 1. IDEOLOGIES AMONG THE WORKING CLASS INIMICAL TO COMMUNISM https://www.marxists.org/history/international/comintern/6th-congress/ch06.htm


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