I wonder if most American "leftists" (democratic socialists or otherwise) deep down are just educated liberals who are really angry about the US not having the welfare state and social protections other countries (particularly those in Europe) have, and jump towards leftism as a solution to the worsening inequalities to the world and abroad, thinking it'll be the best way to forcefully express their anger and enact the change (this probably also applies to non-American lefties to a lesser extent but let's focus on burgers). The "educated lib" part also explains why they tend to lash out and be super arrogant and scoldy towards other Americans who aren't leftie, and seem to just really hate working-class Americans who have conservative beliefs - something I see a lot of educated libs do in the US. Maybe I'm projecting, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of leftie millennials and zoomers felt this way. At the same time, though, it does make me think that what these people truly want is to "flee" or move to a developed nation with a social democractic welfare state (or really just universal healthcare at the bare minimum) like Canada (lol) or somewhere in Europe and live comfortably, and then drop their leftist beliefs to become a center-left/centrist/center-right/center-whatever European. Like, I don't have any problem with wanting to move to another country - it's always interesting to live abroad - but if your desire is to escape to Europe so you can be comfortable there and just do nothing else while sneering at Americans for being morons, I wonder how you'd react to the growing power of the far-right in Europe. As of writing we already have a fascist in Giorgia Meloni governing as PM in Italy, and AfD is the second largest party in the Bundestag and are the largest opposition party - it's not a good trend. Are they going to just sit around doing nothing but posture like libs talking about how bad Europeans (particuarly disillusioned, angry working class Euros) who vote for far-right parties are and how they deserve the suffering that comes to them like they do with Americans and/or retreat to their social safety nets, saying to themselves "at least we're not America" ad nauseam as things get worse and Europe continues to be cruel towards immigrants, or will they actually engage in leftist organizing in their new countries to make things better beyond social democracy, even if it involves participating in demsucc parties?
idk man, as an American myself who loves geography, traveling and learning about other countries sometimes it feels like Americans really do just view other developed countries as "le utopias with universal healthcare" that are glorified safe houses for them to escape to without having to do the long, hard, boring work of organizing to achieve it in the US rather than actually caring about the countries or their culture, or how they got their welfare states in the first place.
(couldn't think of a good image to use for this thread so I just went with a Disco Elysium one)
>American leftists are secretly nazi or zionist or lib or treatlerite thread number 3685997990075323
Who knows? Maybe if they're willing to move to another country then they'll more likely to commit to leftist or communist agitation since moving countries isn't exactly an easy thing to do to begin with. Although I imagine those who flee to a less developed state may be more willing to commit themselves to these causes that those who move a more developed country. Or they may be doing it for sex if they're male. It all depends
>>2503904too bad it's true
Reminder “American” is not a nationality nor an ethnicity, it’s an ideology, you cannot be communist and American at the same time, it’s like saying you’re a “liberal feudalist”
Your post deserves great attention. You are ten thousand percent correct. The ameriKKKan trotskyite filth they call marxists must be questioned. No later than 1917, westoids became firmly anti-Communist and this is centralized most greatest in ameriKKKa. The westoids have rotted from Trotskyism and social democracy. They have no grasp of Communism or leftism at all. This is demonatrated every time fascists like cpusa anon and gaynaziflag posts any of these trotskyites, as well as any time these subjects are defended on this leftist website
This fact is easily demonstrated. Pull an ameriKKKan out of a hat and they are always some kind of political deviant.
Name any ameriKKKan "marxist." They are probably a trotskyite. Richard wolff said NEP was closest Russia was to Communism but Stalin and the Great Collectivization (completed socialist tranaformation) was evil because state authority. In vidrel he is on reactionary podcast calling stalin evil.
Michael parenti-son is a magacom. Parenti himself is particularly devious and his crimes are among most hanious.
>There are things about the DPRK that one might wonder about, including its dynastic leadership system, its highly dictatorial one-party rule, and the chaos that seems implanted in the heart of its 'planned' economy.https://www.commondreams.org/views/2009/06/20/north-korea-sanity-brink>Capitalist restoration in the former communist countries has taken different forms. In Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union, it involved the overthrow of communist governments. In China, it proceeded within the framework of a communist system — as seems to be happening in Vietnam, and perhaps will eventually happen in North Korea and Cuba. While the Chinese government continues under a nominally communist leadership, the process of private capital penetration goes on more or less unhindered." (p.87, Blackshirts & Reds>All this is not to say that everything Stalin did was of historical necessity. The exigencies of revolutionary survival did not 'make inevitable' the heartless execution of hundreds of Old Bolshevik leaders, the personality cult of a supreme leader who claimed every revolutionary gain as his own achievement, the suppression of party political life through terror, the eventual silencing of debate regarding the pace of industrialization and collectivization, the ideological regulation of all intellectual and cultural life, and the mass deportations of 'suspect' nationalities." (p. 57, Blackshirts & Reds)Michael hudson is a free tibet trotskyite. He works for trotskyism like parents worked for trotsky. He called Communist China poor, so his intention is clear
https://michael-hudson.com/2018/08/life-thought-an-autobiography/>I was born in Minneapolis, which is the only city in the world that was a Trotskyist city. During the 1930s it was a center of Trotskyism and my parents worked with Leon Trotsky in Mexico.>Most Chinese live close to the poverty level or well under it, while a small group of newly brooded capitalists profit hugely in collusion with shady officials. Regional bureaucrats milk the country dry, extorting graft from the populace and looting local treasuries. Land grabbing in cities and countryside by avaricious developers and corrupt officials at the expense of the populace are almost everyday occurrences. Tens of thousands of grassroot protests and disturbances have erupted across the country, usually to be met with unforgiving police force.https://redsails.org/friendly-feudalism/This is only the tip of the iceburg. A more profound analysis of what ameriKKKans call their left is warrented. These american "marxists" have spent their getting rich with sole function of trying in vain to destroy Communism, yet the american "leftists defend them to the death. It is sickening.
>>2503899>will they actually engage in leftist organizing in their new countries to make things better beyond social democracy?anarcho neoliberal rats before fleeing the sinking ship which they destroyed:
>"Tankies are wrong, being a globalist who cheers the CIA destroying every workers dictatorship is true revolutionary. Individualist decentralized liberal politics is superior to collectivism. DOGE are heroes for their epic smashing the state, we must unite to resist Stalinst authoritarianism that oppresses the free market, we need anarchist deregulation of the economy for BlackRock."anarcho neoliberal rats after fleeing the sinking ship which they destroyed:
>"nooo Ukraine becoming a NATO-Nazi Fourth Reich after we smashed the state for individual freedom isn't our fault, we are very confused and ignorant here at Crimethinc, we're just weak individuals who are powerless to do collective struggle, its not our fault we're weak cowards! Its actually tankies fault for being hateful to my trans friends who program drones to follow people. We are brave and heroic for our harm reduction of collaborating with globalists who destroy every workers dictatorship that attempts to organize to resist fascism. Putin is evil, Assad is evil, anti-Zionist tankies are evil and should be drone bombed. Anyone who stands against my PMC Breadtube wannabee-Jeffrey-Epstein friends is the axis of evil" >>2503933>>2503932>>2503940your still an american just like the rest of us lmao
>>2503948I’m not an American, I don’t think I am the main character of the world despite having American citizenship
>The "educated lib" part also explains why they tend to lash out and be super arrogant and scoldy towards other Americans who aren't leftie, and seem to just really hate working-class Americans who have conservative beliefs - something I see a lot of educated libs do in the US
We really need to talk about this tbh. American leftists will be the first to voice critikkkal support to the most batshit insane reactionary dictatorships like Putin's Russia or the Taliban, and in the breath will say that Jimbob the Redneck who have flawed opinions about trans people are literally hitlers and no compromise is possible with them
I'm not saying we should ditch minorities in the bus and start appealing to klansmen but the way some leftists view conservatives in their own country is very dissonant in this way
>>2503953> I am the main character of the worldif this is criteria for american (you) are the most american to ever american lmao
>>2503933Memes aside why is every third leftist in the Anglosphere a trotskyite of some kind
>>2503956I literally said I don’t have protagonist syndrome, that’s the main component to being American, it’s not citizenship because it isn’t a country
>>2503958Mao Zedong was effectively a trotskyist and China is the beacon of hope for the world right now
>>2503955>voice critikkkal support to the most batshit insane reactionary dictatorships like Putin's Russia or the TalibanWrong. No ameriKKKan can give critical support because they have no business in criticizing people they bomb. To truly support, you must give unconditional, uncritical support of all enemies of imperalism.
>>2503963Even Manuel Noriega and Imperialist Japan?
>>2503963You are deliberately missing my point hun
>>2503959>>2503963you are american and the most american of us at that
>>2503958It's a useful form of anticommunism that's why
>>2503988Only by citizenship
>>2503994your just like us lol
>>2504003I don’t have NPD
>>2503933>>2503955I don't know why it ultimately comes down to trans people but it seems to me to be nothing other than treatlerite labor aristokkkracy projection. America will be proletarianized and the petty-bourgeois family will be destroyed. Moynihan Communists will fade away with the decline of American empire.
>>2504009not what is says on your accommodation plan my fellow yankee
Working class conservative America in his comfortable microcastle in suburbia with his truck and his boat and his backyard barbecue grill is not going to betray the neoliberal capitalist system, he will die defending it and he side with the police and the fascist Republican government every time, he is invested and has a meager sliver of property that he thinks he'll one day be able to sell for a million dollars, do you think he is going to walk away from that to join the socialist revolution?
>>2504121>microcastle in suburbia with his truck and his boat and his backyard barbecue grillfar from the majority of the population but your right abt them being hyper-reactionary temporarily embarrassed millionaires. On the other hand they might as well be millionaires to me I genuinely don't understand what people could possibly be doing to afford a huge fucking truck along with two non-used vehicles and a fucking boat and not renting. Theres no way a ton of these ppl aren't in debt how could one afford being so wasteful there fucking hyper-manicured lawns prolly more expensive than half of year my wages
Debate addict thread
Americans are irredeemable, anyone who identifies as a UsANO is identifiying with a country founded on genocide and settler colonialism. There is no redemption for americans only death, suicide by their own hands. The base informs the superstructure and the base of the USA is genocide, treachery, and theft.
>>2503899how many times is the concept of labor aristocracy going to be rediscovered and argued over??? do you guys ever do any reading do you watch a couple of vids, get some marxist vocab and then start rewording basic bitch observations?? do you even read theory? all of this was already mulled over by lenin and stalin
>>2504885
Idealist mutt afraid of your coming doom. Stop shitting up the board with your nonsense and let the adults talk.
>>2504885
Strange how americans are quick to call others moralist when their dogshit nation is called for what it is. Truely interesting how quick the so-called communist will abandon all their ideals and principles to defend genocide, rape, and murder. Just more evidence that Americans are doomed.
>>2504876stop dividing the working class and stop spreading revolutionary pessimism
>>2504898Idealist anarchist pissant, stop spreading idealism and promoting genocide. There is no "division" of the left. The american left doesn't exist, it is founded on the exploitation of others and the theft of their wealth. Any leftist in the USA will discard their """"american"""" identity and become a real human being. Once the loot runs out you people will devour yourselves. Just as rome slowly ate itself away turning into a husk the USA will face the same fate until they are finally put out of their misery by a civilization more advanced and empathetic. Thus is the fate of all settler-colonies and empires.
>>2503899>I wonder how you'd react to the growing power of the far-right in Europewell considering they are libs they would probably continue the sneering and berate them for loving authoritarianism and wanting to be like putler and never understand that the reason the us doesn't have healthcare is the same reason europe is losing it. of course a lot of that is a result of the fall of the ussr. the far right is rising because that is what happens when imperialist profits dry up as the rate of profit falls and avenues for expansion are exhausted. in other words the globalist neoliberal project is hitting its material limits and the only option is communism or fascism aka socialism or barbarism. this is most acute and obvious in the situation in ukraine where the imperialist order finally ran into a state it cant subjugate in russia backed by china seeing and preventing its encirclement which is why it along with israel are blowing up the whole structure as libs can never see beyond ideology and anyone who disagrees must be an evil tankie red fash which is of course synonymous with commie.
>>2504876why are you freaks so obsessed with saying "usano", what the fuck does that even mean?
>>2504929south america is also america and in spanish the usicans is called estados unidenses and since americans are largely gusanos by political affiliation so you put it together and you get usanos
>>2503904>>2504088Not an arguement
>>2504962okay stefan, why should we hear out the same shitty argument you keep forcing for the thousandth time?
>>2504977>okay stefan, why should we hear out the same shitty argument you keep forcing for the thousandth time?<Leftypol is one personYou willingly opened this thread for one. And also you Robert Boberts always deflect to other countries for some reason instead of doing the bare minimum as leftist during a goverment shutdown.
>>2504980you seem to love forcing the argument even if you aren't the person who created the thread, it's quite obvious, and mind you these threads that are being created could disappear tomorrow and the site would improve tenfold
>>2504983>you seem to love forcing the argument even if you aren't the person who created the thread, it's quite obvious, and mind you these threads that are being created could disappear tomorrow and the site would improve tenfold<leftypol is two peopleStop crying that someone else said something you didn't like. Stop pretended to be a leftist if tou can't do anything but whine that your safe space is gone. If you want burger nationalism go to /pol/ you might fit in.
Americans really are like their Israelis masters with this level of persecution complex holy shit.
Historically, the big leftist revolutions have always been very associated with an educated and unemployed youth counterculture. Young people fresh out of college are jobless and broke and struggling to survive and their heads are full of crazy ideas about democracy and equality and redistributing wealth, the youth become criminalized and generational culture war shit intensifies, protests, strikes, riots, police brutality, etc.
The internet is interesting because it's sort of democratized access to information to the point where now the world's youth don't need to be college students to learn about all these dangerous ideas, so it's possible that it could lead to leftist youth uprisings on a level never witnessed before.
>>2504985i'm not even american, i'd just rather you get a job rather than spreading low effort, forced arguments like this
>>2504992Pure projection from someone who derails a thread he can't argue with. Also you sure you're not American you seem racist enough.
>>2504941At least "USAno" is a clever play on "gusano". Now, anyone who unironically uses the term "USian" is a retard who doesn't deserve to be taken seriously
>>2505088Meh usian is shorter and more concise. USAno is just a more confusing form of gusano that you have to explain.
>>2503994>>2503940>>2503953>uhh no i am not like you i am super special and unique in that i'm not one of (((you))) because i'm not super special and uniquelmao
>>2504926Anon, consciousness is not a matter of technological determinism. Even if that were the case the specifics of the bourgeois family are tied to the organization of land/housing and domestic labor. A vague "economic development" doesn't cover the need for dense commie blocks and amenities like cheap diners, laundromats, etc… The destruction of the petty-bourgeois family is inevitable in America. Urban sprawl is completely unsustainable without imperial spoils. The labor aristocracy will be proletarianized. This is what I mean about the reactionary labor aristocracy projecting empire onto transgender people.
american leftists' main problem at their very core is a cross between laziness and self-hatred, the average american lefty seems hell bent on explaining why any sort of action taken would be futile and pointless at almost every single political issue with the exception of maybe going to a picket for palestine every few months, this tends to lead most american radical leftists to either reject their radical views and see it more as a fashion statement in your youth or you stay in a small niche sorta group where you circle jerk about marx and do protests sometimes, everyone is afraid to go the extra mile
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