/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

The division between the global south and global north has a machinean interpertation with third worldist. This means there is an explicit division between what is good and what is bad. TW is a moralist understanding of imperialism. It's clear why it is also popular - it's a clear cut division good/bad, it replicates Christian morality and TW intellectuals do not have the duty communist intellectuals have which is to organize people and introduce communist consciousness, but only critique and condemn western praxis (the horseshoe theory applies with leftcoms and TWs)

I do not think most new third-worldists are Sakaiists. I do not think they are even full-on third worldists.
In my opinion, it is just an exhaustion at American left's impotence (perhaps inexistence?) and to a lesser extent, Western Europe's communist left fading into lib-centrism. It is a troll-reaction to this eroding of the Western Left. A middlefinger to the lies and disappointment of eurocommunists, of empty phrases of 'worldwide revolution' when materially, they cannot even win over a few villages. It is an emotional outburst against the total victory of capital on the impotent left.
Disagree with Iron Felix all you want, you cannot deny there is a kernel of truth in his 'strasserite' accusations.

>>2512949
> 'strasserite' accusations.
Strasser was anti imperialist thoughbeit. That's one of the reasons he fell out with Hitler. He wasn't interested in starting a new war with everyone.

>>2512953
All German citizens are imperialists. Only those residents without citizenship can be antiimperialist.

>>2512954
Biologically correct.

>>2512919
because the first world de-industrialized and working class exploitation is now concentrated in the third world. we can't have jobs and trades because capitalists have offshored them, and they can't have the wages and conditions they deserve because capitalists corrupted their governments.

the labor movement has always held that the interests of the working class are shared by all members of the working class. bourgeois fantasies like states, and nations, and races be damned.marx made extensive critique of colonialism in kapital, and early radical unions like the IWW were international in scope. this has been an international movement from conception.

if anything gen Z being able to think and act internationally is a roaring return to form and I for one wish them well.

>>2512940
this is gibberish and you stopped a perfectly shit thread from disappearing off the bottom of the page with zero replies.

>>2512962
It's not giberrish, it's actually more or less simple to understand. Both TW and ultraleftism are reflection of the same organizational impotence and a secular/leftist reflection of Christian principles of non-action/passivity. You believe the FW de-industrialized, which is sufficient to conclude you are an idiot.

>>2512919
Sakai wasn’t a third worldist. He thought the first world ethnic minorities were revolutionary proletarians while whites weren’t.

In reality neither blacks or white in the Imperial core are revolutionary.

>>2512919
Bernie/Corbyn lost and so English-speaking millenials believe that white people are incapable of socialism (state healthcare) and that their salvation lies with brown workers in the global south who they've never met, or in Actually Existing Capitalist states like China and Cuba.

>>2512964
it fucking did. the working class in the west are a bunch of white collar office cucks, government job losers, and unskilled service workers with no leverage or a fantasy of being in the professional managerial class.

acting like a bunch of petit bourg contractors in f150s are a working class is magaturd tier retardation.
acting like a bunch of petit bourg farmers in f150s that exploit a racialised working class is magaturd tier retardation.
acting like the factory workers aren't predominantly drawn from a racialised working class is magaturd tier retardation.
acting like food service workers aren't predominantly drawn from a racialised working class is magaturd tier retardation
acting like the military that goes out to murder and steal for the state are a working class is magaturd tier retardation.

the imperial core can't export because there's no global market for over-priced, under-regulated slop.

>>2512972
trump vindicated him. the american state is collapsing without its racialised working class, and the instability of global markets as white america spends to fill its production shortfall should make it abundantly clear whats happening.

>>2512964
>deindustialisation denier
Now that is a new one.

>>2512986
>>2512979
200/500 largest manufacturing compaines operate in Europe, and while deindustrialization happened in some sectors, a lot of competitive and monopolistic sectors remained. Take into account that not all off-shoring happened to the GS but some also went to ex-Warsaw Pact countries and remained in the Imperial Center. Europe produces cars, trains, mechanical parts, ships, a huge farmacological industry. Do you think productive forces accumulated over centuries just dissappear because some capitalists start offshoring some industry and some deindustrialization in some sectors happen? Do you believe imperialists would that easily give up means to produce means of production? I don't want to be rude but it seems you have a wicked and incorrect view on things.
>the imperial core can't export because there's no global market for over-priced, under-regulated slop.
What the FUCK are you talking about?

>>2512949
I agree,

But I'd also add the USAno media hegemony is felt hard all along the the west. I'd argue that what we are seeing is analogous to the early pro-Palestine protests. As in, neither are ideologically motivated nor political despite representing a grassroots sentiment. That sentiment being resentment fueled by the cognitive dissonance of the moment.

Back in 2023 it was the closing-ranks around hardcore Zionism ( not necessary now that the liberal Zionists have the ball). And at the moment is the same closing of ranks, by the same authorities around NATO's cold war narrative or demanding forever war and forever austerity. Both cases challenged the liberal worldview, as so far propagandized and made them feel bad, which is then rirected the issue at hand, back then Zionism, now western imperialism.

But it's not really political and you can tell that ,deep down, the demand is not change, but relief from dissonance. As soon as a suitable excuse is found(liberal Zionism, NATO [inter]nationalism), the angry masses go back to squaring their unchallenged worldview and be happy about it. Nothing is learned and no amount of power changed hands.

>>2512993
Both employment and share of global industrial product fell for western countries, which is what term deindustrialisation refers to.

>>2512993
>Do you believe imperialists would that easily give up means to produce means of production?
There is nothing to believe, this is a matter of fact.

>>2512993
>his figures end 2023
nobody tell him what's happening to the german economy after the trump tarriffs and loss of russian oil and gas.

>>2513155
Again, do you really believe a nation can deindustrialize in two years? What is with this retarded view on things. Yeah, the economy is in recession, but so is everywhere. It still produces shit.

I think at the end of the day, what it boils down to is that the Left of the 20th century had been thoroughly trained on a particular form of “internationalism” (campism, perhaps?) which mostly involves one’s stance on foreign nation-states—not even the workers of those states, as regardless of what gripes the workers may have with their respective governments, regardless of however corrupt those governments are, or even if they slaughter left wingers in their own nation, “solidarity” amounts to supporting them against one’s own nation based on particular conceptions of “opposing imperialism.” And while it’s easy to rally support to Gaza given its mostly people being one-sidedly slaughtered, you’d be alienated from most people by demanding they show solidarity with Putin, for example. You can understand the legitimate reasons that prompted him to invade Ukraine, but at the end of the day people have a far easier time justifying defensive wars over offensive ones. Trying to recontextualize it as a pre-emptive defensive war takes way more time and energy than merely pointing out that there was “peace” before Russian tanks rolled into Ukraine.

Of course, even this crude pseudo-“internationalism” is a pale imitation of the internationalism of yesterday. Prior generations of socialists actually fought. They’d find ways to smuggle comrades out of dictatorships and into their own liberal countries. The people who’ll breathlessly list all the countries and national movements they “support” won’t actually go there and fight, even when it’s possible. Their “critical support” amounts to cheerleading one group or another, dunking on whatever unfortunate liberal has the audacity to say “I think we should support the protesters in Polokistan against General ibn-Kilgore.” The “critical” part of that support being mistaken for just how zealously they’re expected to defend the country in question.

There’s a joke in “Yes Minister” about the readers of different newspapers and who they think rules the country, with an aside saying the readers of the Communist paper “Think the country should be run by another country”. And while that’s something socialists have pushed back on in the past—Gus Hall easily explained that he’d be rooting for America in the Olympics—now with how shattered the movement actually is, globally and at home, people have been reduced to rooting against their own people and seeing them as “the enemy” in order to cheerlead the conflicts of nations. After all, people can’t do anything anymore; just nations.

It's not really Sakai or Third Worldism so much as it's self defeating nihilism wrapped in Third Worldist lingo. Because while at least Third Worldists and Sakaiists at least want the emancipation of the oppressed peoples of the first world, the followers of Iron Felix Thought believe that everyone in the first world is complicit and communism is impossible in America because we're all evil or we would have had a revolution by now. At the same time communism is also impossible everywhere else because of America so the best we can do is dirigisme and if you criticize that you're an ultra leftoid or whatever. And because every American is a selfish monster only out for themselves, any expressions of leftism among the population are just manifestations of Nazism because "real" communism means no more electricity or running water or other "treats" for Americans either as penance or because it's somehow impossible to have those things without imperialism. So in short, America and the people in it are irredeemably evil, communism is only possible when America is destroyed, but America will never be destroyed because every American is evil, so communism is impossible and any attempt at getting there is actually just Nazism. It's less of an ideology so much as it is a set of thought terminating cliches and circular reasoning that exists to justify doing nothing while sneering at "the left" for not committing mass suicide. There's a lot of parallels with incel ideology wrt reliance on circular reasoning and self defeating conclusions

>muh third worldism
I miss when people would just call you a campist

>>2513360
you watch cartoons for children

>>2512979
>it fucking did. the working class in the west are a bunch of white collar office cucks, government job losers, and unskilled service workers with no leverage or a fantasy of being in the professional managerial class.

“Your poverty is not aesthetic enough for me to be concerned with.”
“After the invention of the Ford F150, all politics ceased and people stopped worrying about debt.”

Yknow the funny thing about Marx is he wrote all this nifty stuff about “rising classes” and how even in cases when everyone, for example, has a house, class antagonism can still exist. But third worldism inverts that.
>The more concessions labor wins from conflict with Capital, the weaker it gets cause muh treats
>Advances in capitalism only solves problems, never creates new ones.

Yes we can’t advance beyond feudalism because all these treatlerite peasants have homes and advanced agricultural techniques while the REAL and RADICAL classes are the hunter-gatherer aboriginals of Australia.

>>2513260
Anon, once again, deindustrialisation does not mean getting rid of literally all the industry.

You need to go back, cracker

>>2513360
this blob cartoon you keep sharing scares me

>>2512972

Правильно.

Sekai is such dogshit. Settlers literally ends claiming that white "proletariat" are genetically evil and need to entirely evacuate from class action, and he's allegedly Japanese so he's not even part of the group he's theorizing is the only legitimate source of proletarian action.

That said, I don't think anyone actually reads it. I remember some subs had it as required reading, yet if they read it, it's reactionary and tells that person telling others to read it is "born" petit-bourgeois and need to never get involved in anything, even anti-racist action. There's an extensive chapter about civil rights being co-opted by white people "for their own benefit" so these people put it as required reading in the middle of getting mad about racism in the world.

Nobody reads

>>2513368
we're marxists here.

"working class" is not a blue collar aesthetic, it's a relation to the means of production, not an industry, and not a bank balance. reactionary "working class" contractors are in reality petit bourgeois business owners. in the united states they are so depraved that they're picking up day laborers from home depot only to hand them over to ICE at the end of the day.

>After the invention of the Ford F150, all politics ceased and people stopped worrying about debt

the ford f150 is a luxury offroad sports car not a tradesman's vehicle. it's wildly impractical in terms of mileage and cargo. I'm using it symbolically and you're a shithead for trying to call me on it. being a shit businessman and racking up debt on a depreciating asset like a flashy truck doesn't change your relationship to the means of production.

> Yes we can’t advance beyond feudalism because all these treatlerite peasants have homes and advanced agricultural techniques while the REAL and RADICAL classes are the hunter-gatherer aboriginals of Australia.

the soviets supported the liberation of africa and were the first nation to constitutionally recognize the equality of all peoples.

the viet minh were able to successfully resist the french, japanese, and americans because they were able to unify 54 distinct cultures in indochina. they all still have equal rights in present day vietnam.

the naxals of india owe their popular support to the rejection of the caste system and support of tribal cultures, lower castes, and untouchables.

aboriginal and torres straight islanders in australia often live in third world poverty in one of the richest nations on earth. they have been historically subject to apartheid and genocide: british colonists abducted black children and put them in camps where they were stripped of their culture, physically and sexually abused, and force-bred with whites in an attempt to erase their genes. there is still a two tier legal system where whites in the NT aren't prosecuted for murdering them.

you're not remotely socialist. the chinese can do economic development in the third world without exterminating or disenfranchising the locals. you're crashing out over people expecting the bare minimum.

> advanced agricultural practices

mechanization, monoculture, feed lots, and glyphosate are killing the planet and spreading cancers and diseases. I'm all for industrial agriculture when it doesn't run on slavery and doesn't create toxic runoff, algal blooms, and fish kills. if only the intensity with which we exploit the earth correlated with the cost of living: it's mostly converted to waste and animal feed due to supply side economics.

you are such a dumb cunt it's unreal.

>>2513441
wait until you learn he wants to have sex with it.