https://cytu.be/r/leftybritpol-hangoutcytube for tonight guys?
give suggestions
>>27376I think all mothers should receieve the help they need.
Don't know about compensation though. Do we even need many a lot of new children? Our population is so vast already, so should having children even be incentivised?
If having children is incentivised, what would stop many women from choosing to raise kids instead of working in other areas? Pregnancy and childcare is not easy, in fact it's dangerous, yet it seems some women are happy to have as many children as they can - even when under capitalism childcare can greatly set back your career.
I was in Wigan for work recently and the size of families was shocking, quite a few patients had 7 children. If that's what people are like under the current circumstances, imagine what they'd be like under corcumstances where they are greatly incentivised to have them.
Again, women should be fully supported in their health, and care of children.
Do you think women should only be given the compensation for raising children? Or will men who decide to take on that responsibility instead also be compensated?
Tbh without explicut rules for how the hypothetical society functions, speculating is very limited. How much is the compensation? Is it the same as a wage earned through other work? Are all jobs paid the same? Etc.
Sexuality being removed takes the point away from the initial discussion. I was reading an article by Cockshott where he decribed how 3 of Corbyn's actions are a step away from socialism. He comes across as a straight up TERF (going out of his way to misgender the people he acknowledges are trans in that same paragraph).
I'm not one to get hung up on identity politics, but Cockshott seems to take pride in being reactionary on these issues every chance he gets.
Identity politics may not be the path to socialism, but there is nothing inherently anti-left wing about them on their own.
https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/2018/02/01/corbyn-moves-right/ >>28520People are on, rn its 23:05, so were active as of now.
come join
https://cytu.be/r/leftybritpol-hangout https://cytu.be/r/leftybritpol-hangoutREFUGE SERVER POSTED IN HERE
DO NOT TYPE IN CYTUBE, JUST CLICK THE LINK
>>3562I hadn't logged on to Bunkerchan for the majority of the UK's covid 'season' but from December 2019 to December 2020 there has been a massive degeneration in the quality of posting and a lot more pointless trolling, plenty of bait-taking too. OC is very rare and the board has descended to one line posts of flame and bile whilst obvious trolls get the most entertained threads.
The shit-flinging partisanship had so obviously become the new teen-talking point, being very tried and dull a topic without anything other than greentexting soyjaks etc.
I had started browsing /edu/ more than /leftypol/ itself by the time I returned a few weeks ago.
>>3565Other non-bong here.
All I know is that the sphere is meant to be Keir Starmer, current leader of the Labour Party after Corbyn was purged from his own party.
>>3566Tbh ever since ditching Sky and TV in general I've barely watched any movies, mostly just been watching youtube videos and anime.
Sage you got any recommendation for Christmas films to watch or just your favourite films in general.
On an unrelated note you're in a tenants union right? Could you give me a quick rundown on what goes on in a tenants union cause I was thinking of joining my local union after Covid gets sorted.
>>3568I watched avatar and the iron giant yesterday. Not christmas films but feel good family films that also fill you with rage at US empire. Shrek is also pretty based. Watch 1/2 the other day. Been on the childrens film kick to feel cosy and comfy over the holidays. Also its very soothing on the mind compared to some edgelord film i'd usually watch in the vane of fighclub etc.
In terms of tenants unions, are you talking about Acorn? Or are you a non bong? There is a whole lot I could say, it is my favorite topic of conversation kek. It probably varies union to union, but mostly you are trying to build power and membership by winning victories for tenants. These can be either small individual things like repairs not getting done, resisting an eviction, trying to get a rent reduction- these will mostly be against private landlords, or they can be collective issues, collective issues are usally gonna be against a large corporate landlord or a social landlord i.e. the state of some private/public partnership of death. The small issues tend to be more common, but the collective ones are where you get the big wins. You can expect to research local housing law, do pickets and other protests, perhaps more creative. A lot of it is situation dependent.
If you ask me more specific questions I can give much better answrs
>>3569Thanks for the recommendations Sage, Shrek 1/2 are always a classic.
I'm in London ,I don't think Acorn organises here (tfw can't join Acorn-ML), so I'll join London Renters Union instead. Rearching housing laws and joining pickets seem pretty chill.
How much of your time does tenant organising take? Since currently I'm a student so I would have to balance my studies with organising. I assume it probably doesn't take that much of your time since most members would have 9-5 jobs
>>3570oh I also actually watched national lampoons christmas vacation. A dumb chevy chase slapstick film, but lighthearted, and at the end it turns out the climax of the film of the guy kidnapping his boss, so some leftist undertones.
Also, Acorn if I am not mistaken have finally decided to organise in London, I think they had their first meeting recently. It might be borough specific but worth checking out definitely. Other than that sure LRU could also do with more people and they are also affiliated to Living Rent (we have done joint campaigns etc)
In terms of time, it can take as little or as much as you want. I am quite involved, so it can take up anywhere from 10-20/30 hours in a week, depending on the week and whats going on. But you could be a useful member doing 4-8 hours ish a week. The key is to do the things you say will do. Being reliable to do one small task ever week or 2 is better than unreliably taking on a lot
>>3571>Acorn if I am not mistaken have finally decided to organise in London, I think they had their first meeting recently. It might be borough specific but worth checking out definitely. Other than that sure LRU could also do with more people and they are also affiliated to Living Rent (we have done joint campaigns etc)Yeah checked out the Acorn website and they have a branch all the way in north london which is quite far from where I live, however their website did mention if there's no local branch they would help me set one up. Although I'm not sure it would be a good idea for a total beginner like me to set up a branch immediately, maybe after I've spent some time in LRU I could set up an Acorn branch. To be honest I'm quite surprised there aren't many London Acorn branches but I assume its because LRU sucks up a lot of potential members.
Glad to see that the time commitment is flexible, I'll probably start off with doing a few hours a week and build up from there, don't wanna do 30 hours immediately and burn myself out. Thanks for the information Sage, hopefully we get more posters talking in this thread and in .org in general
>>3575Thanks for the encouragement Sage, if you see a new acorn branch pop up in London you'll know why
NOTE TO GCHQ AGENT READING THIS: Newly founded Acorn London branches have no relation with /leftypol/ posters
New Michael Roberts article.
https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2020/12/29/the-brexit-deal/>The UK is a country of bankers, lawyers, accountants and media people, rather than engineers, builders and manufacturers. The UK has a huge top-heavy banking sector, but a small manufacturing sector compared to other G7 economies.
>What about the impact on working people? On leaving the EU, what little British labour has gained from EU regulations will be in jeopardy within a country which is already the most deregulated in the OECD. The EU rules included a 48-hour week maximum (riddled with exemptions); health and safety regulations; regional and social subsidies; science funding; environmental checks; and of course, above all, free movement of labour. All that is going or being minimised.
>[…] Most sober estimates of the impact of leaving the EU suggest that the UK economy will grow more slowly in real terms than it would have done if it had remained a member. Mainstream economic institutes, including the Bank of England, reckon that there would be a cumulative loss in real GDP for the UK over the next ten to 15 years of between 4-10% of GDP from leaving the EU; or about 0.4% points off annual GDP growth. That’s a cumulative 3% of GDP loss per person, equivalent to about £1000 per person per year.
>[…] And then of course, the COVID pandemic has decimated business activity. In 2020., the UK will suffer the largest fall in GDP among major economies apart from Spain and recover more slowly than others in 2021.
>British capitalism was already slipping badly before the pandemic hit. Its trade deficit with the rest of the world had widened to around 6% of GDP; and real GDP growth had slid back from over 2% a year to below 1.5%, with industrial production crawling along at 1%. The UK economy already had weak investment and productivity growth compared with the 1990s and with other OECD countries.
>[…] But maybe the UK can confound these dismal forecasts, as the government claims, because UK industry and the City of London can now expand across the world ‘free from the shackles’ of EU regulation. And it is increasingly clear how it thinks it can do this – by turning Britain into a tax and regulation-free base for foreign multinationals. The government is planning ‘free ports’ or zones; areas with little to no tax in order to encourage economic activity. While located geographically within a country, they essentially exist outside its borders for tax purposes. Companies operating within free ports can benefit from deferring the payment of taxes until their products are moved elsewhere or can avoid them altogether if they bring in goods to store or manufacture on site before exporting them again.
>Unfortunately, for the government, studies show that free ports might simply defer the point when taxes are paid, as imports would still need to reach final customers across the country. And the incentives may also promote the relocation of activity that would have taken place anyway, from one part of the UK to another. Moreover, tax breaks could mean a loss of revenue for the Treasury. And free ports risk facilitating money laundering and tax evasion, as goods are usually not subject to checks that are standard elsewhere. A deregulated Britain will not restore economic growth, let alone good, well-paid jobs for an educated and skilled workforce. It will only boost the profits of multi-nationals, using cheap, unskilled labour.
>In sum, the Brexit deal is another obstacle to sustained economic growth for Britain. But the COVID pandemic slump and the underlying weakness of British capital are much more damaging to the UK’s economic future than Brexit. Brexit is just an extra burden for British capital to face; as it also will be for British households.>>3587They threw tonnes of shit at the wall during the early Corbyn period, but what really stuck was the anti-Semitism stuff. It was easily applied from the media who repeated it over and over just parroting the board of deputies.
It's the same as the uigher shit in China. Mabye stuff is going down but it's the same sources with no evidence provided by anyone but Zenz/HRW/Epoch. Or the Iran nukes, Iraq wmds, Kuwait incubators, bay of Tonkin, russiagate etc etc. Just find a single source and repeat it and nauseum untill people believe it. Doesn't matter if it's true or not, the media is too complient to bother investigating or providing a competong narritiave.
>>3591Those really cool anon!
How'd you make the maps? Is there a guide online on mapmaking because I wanna make maps too
Do your bf have a YouTube channel for thess?
Also why are the Greens Authoritarian Dems kek
>>3596>The first (and most complete, considering Anglo-Saxons no longer exist) victims of colonialism were the Anglo-Saxons.Who do you think the English are LMAO? English and low land Scotts are Anglo-Saxons.
BTW the Angles and Saxons are from what is now Germany and Denmark, they were only in England because they invaded and genocided the Romanized Britons.
>>3594Are you implying that the English didn't colonize anyone at all?
>>3599pic related
>>3620i was saying "based" because someone made a thread after all the posts got nuked
"de lads" comes from seasidemark videos that get posted on /brit/ and you can basically read it as "lads"
having it appear literally every time someone makes a post is an act of shitposting genius that even i couldn't have come up with.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>3627500 internal server error
>>3628holy based
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>3639tbf matrix can fuck off
fuck chatrooms, boards forever.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism https://wingsoverscotland.com/hiroshima-non-amour/top lel
(tl;dr: leaked submission to the scottish govt inquiry detailing sturgeon lying to parliament and breaching the ministerial code, both of which are resigning issues.)
>>3652Oh so he basically became a doomer.
>>3653The thing is it's not like Ireland or Germany are even closer to becoming socialist. Ireland has been alternating between two conservative parties for like 80 years and Merkel, a conservative, has been in power since 2005. With the CDU seeming likely to win this year's election too. It would make more sense if he wanted to move to a country that has a Communist party (or Communist Party in name only depending on your opinion) already in power such as Cuba,Vietnam or China.
>>3656>>3574 was me
Plenty of people on /leftybritpol/ are Acorn members. The Acorn-ML meme sorta started because a person joined and we memed the welcoming material
>>3646can't say. sturgeon's faction probably has an advantage with MSPs, but i don't know how the SNP leadership selection procedure works. with the membership it's worth noting that the non-sturgeon faction won the recent SNP internal elections, but as for who might replace her as party leader in the event that she resigns it's harder to say.
also, the chief executive of the party is still Sturgeon's husband, so if someone outside her faction wins he could probably do a bit of wrecking.
>>3669Young Europeans are ready to take to the streets to bring about change, according to a recent European Union-sponsored survey, titled “Generation What?”.
Around 580,000 respondents in 35 countries were asked the question: Would you actively participate in large-scale uprising against the generation in power if it happened in the next days or months? More than half of 18- to 34-year-olds said yes.
https://www.facebook.com/qznews/photos/a.304902839889127/434578503588226/?comment_id=434958140216929 >>3672Before lunch? Smh
At least have a sandwich first
>>3680As we all know, there's never been a revolution in a monarchy.
>>3682Yes.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>3684kek based leaker
Do you think anything is gonna happen because of this leaked submission?
>>3643 like even tho Sturgeon lied to parliament I doubt she's gonna resign since Johnson and Tories get away with much worst shit. But at least this submisison is gonna be neat for some future historian.
>>3687If France had a revolution it would just be Eurocommunisn v2.0.
At least our left-libs have dropped all pretence of communism.
>>3691isn't your ideology already government policy
>>3692noooooooooo you can't just post on the website that actually functions and has a development roadmap beyond "give me money > ???", it's run by the moderation team who can take a joke but that includes someone who posts smug furry pictures once in a blue moon!! (which as you know, furry wolves will howl at.)
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>3693Yes I too am tired of living in the meme country
>>3694>isn't your ideology already government policyJust goes to show its dialectical power
>>3696The plague rises
>>3697Very funny post wish we had more banter experts like you here
>>3711jesus fuck
stop pretending that a fucking site and its shitposters are your family or friends
>>3709yes
>>3711no death, only movement now.
>>3715wew
the contest to replace him is going to be remarkable, a clash of titans, a war of giants, two or more political big-guns firing broadsides at one another. i can't wait.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>3728Remember when the miner's strike happened and the "You get more conservative as you get older" crowd of yuppies voted Tories?
Why contain it?
>>3730they vote SNP or Green because Scottish Labour is the most incompetent (and from ~2011-2020 most right-wing) part of labour. there is a small but notable group of people who vote SNP despite opposing independence because they like their domestic policies.
Scottish Labour has been doing the sideshow bob bit of stepping on rakes over and over and over again since 1999, from the introduction of tuition fees only to pretend to abolish them (by charging them at the end of the course rather than while it was ongoing) to their decision to build their scottish parliamentary team out of overpromoted councillors, to their opposition to the full abolition of fees and of prescription charges, to backstabbing their own leader over a minor scandal because she was willing to fight an independence referendum in the 2007-2011 parliament and would've given the SNP the votes it needed to hold one, to Jackie Baillie decrying the SNP's "something for nothing" welfarism, to making Jackie Baillie leader at all…
the exact moment of their death can be timed to their decision to campaign alongside the Conservatives as part of Better Together. Scottish Labour linked hands with the Scottish Tories and dutifully fell to the same level of popular support.
[spoiler]I don't say this out of any particular affinity for the SNP, it's just that Scottish Labour is a cautionary tale in getting literally everything wrong. For all nationalists (and Jackie Baillie) mock it as being a branch office of UK Labour, it would be a hell of a lot better run if it
was.[/spoiler]
>>3738Kinda silly to call the jannies here shady since they've been moderating /leftypol/ since the days 8chan and have been mostly competent at it, especially when Watermelon and Zul were acting on their own. Anyways nuking Bunkerchan was based since it forced users to migrate here instead of having two slowly dying stagnate imageboards otherwise.
>>3748Yeah it's a shame about current Irish politics but I feel like NI leaving the UK would be the first domino in the collapse of the UK, I doubt Scotland would stay for much longer if one nation has already left. Also it would be funny to see how many colonies and dominions bother to change their flag to the updated union jack or if they decide to create whole new flags without the union jack.
>>3750I'm here because I believe that the people working on this site are more competent than Space_ and d011ars.
These guys are here because they got banned
>>3745 >>3746And if I had to guess you're posting here because you take E-drama too serious.
>>3750why are you so infatuated with a site run by an idiot king who can't even fix the board himself and has to pay some randos to do it on his behalf, who inherited it from a mong who popped in about as often as the queen pops over to Montserrat and even then usually to fuck things up.
oh nooooo, one guy deleted some threads because he wanted to accelerate people leaving the hall of 500 server errors, clearly this mean he'll do it again here for no reason!!
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>3769Do you mean 500 server error?
Bruh, we're just making fun of it, we're not causing it.
>>3775"What if they delete everything for no good reason?" is a stupid argument in the face of the context for
why they did it. It's like taking the guy who punched richard spencer in the face and asking "what if he goes on to punch your gran? he's a
puncher"
>>3778sage is known to love the boot and always side with the most retarded takes
waste of time
>>3788>if you don’t agree with me by definition you are “the wrong sort” Lmao keep it coming.
>am I out of touch >no it’s the children who are wrong Kekekke
>>3781Seeking consensus in circumstances such as these is always a good way to get merked by those who're more willing to take decisive action.
And it shouldn't be forgotten that the administration of this site has been much more consensual in its mode of operation than that of the rump .xyz. The decision to nuke the boards was one .xyz mod's own personal initiative, which was rewarded but not sanctioned in advance.
Very few posters agree with perpetuating the split, yet they've decided to do this on the whims of one admin who's very obviously had his feelings hurt by the other mods and who doesn't even personally have the capacity to run the site and has been reduced to e-begging for funds to outsource site development.
>>3787The people who're deeply pissed off are a rounding error compared to the people who just want to post and will gravitate to whichever site better achieves that goal.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>3790>kekkekekekkeke>lmao ahahaha hihihohomeds
take them
>>3791Yes they just wanted to post, so you guys deleted all their posts and attacked the board and now think that means the idea what’s popular?
>>3793>muh skitzo No it’s just genuinely funny how autistic a view you take. In fact skitzos live in their own thought bubble just like you
>>3791And there should have been consensus building apparatus the entire time but it wasn’t allowed because “muh splitting” and “muh cliques” and “muh security” as if that last one wasn’t just a sorry excuse for excersisimg more control over the board.
And now look.. a clique.. split the board… and.. compromised its security by various means. The very accusers of before.
I tried being nice but still you people persist so here we are back to square one, again, because some of you are completely incapable of accepting you might be even slightly responsible for how things are. Mind not all of you, but some of you.
>>3794>so you guys deleted all their posts and attacked the board I'd love to know by what logic you're assigning collective responsibility for the actions of a single person, performed entirely of their own initiative.
Let's take a lateral look at it: Deleting the posts is very obviously the proximate cause of space's departure. Even if the split were to end in d0llars caligulan empire winning out, that would still have made the deletion of the posts a victory for the community as a whole compared to an alternative where space stuck around.
>>3795Pray tell how you would've implemented consensus building apparatus in the face of Space's refusal to give admin access. Don't say an off-site Matrix, there is a notable segment of the userbase which will never use Discord for RMS. Something integrated with the board, that the actual anons who use it can contribute to rather than just those willing to join off-site cliques.
That a split initially occurred was a failure on all sides, that the split is perpetuated is very obviously the fault only of one individual: d0llars. You can sit on the sidelines discussing the apportionment of blame if you want to, I'm much more interested in how we end the split. In the face of d0llars rejection of any merger suggestions there are three options: .org wins, d0llars wins, or the split continues and we all lose.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>3796It wasn't space which who stopped the use of discord and matrix outside of mod servers, that was all you guys. Now suddenly out of nowhere you are again against it.
> there is a notable segment of the userbase which will never use Discord for RMSthis was not the case before a long term smear campaign and you know it.
How about instead of these smears you mods had spelt out why it was important. But you didn't, wonder why that could be.
> Something integrated with the board,mod speak for under your control
>that the actual anons who use it can contribute to rather than just those willing to join off-site cliques.hahahaha but a mod chat isn't a clique somehow. Puh-lease.
>That a split initially occurred was a failure on all sides,indeed
>that the split is perpetuated is very obviously the fault only of one individual: d0llars.no, come on.
>I'm much more interested in how we end the split.and yet, you are completely unwilling it seems to admit that maybe some neutral ground neither party controls is needed for this, despite already admitting there is blame on both sides.
To say there was originally fault on both sides and then after say, but after that, the perpetuation of the split was entirely the fault of one side, is just plain petulant. If the root is mouldy, the whole flower is tainted.
>org wins, d0llars wins, or the split continues and we all lose.Do you see how maddening all this is. It can honestly be like talking to a brick wall.
>the split was caused by all sides>but it is entirely the other sides fault that it continues >but if the split continues we all lose >unless of course you side entirely with usDo any of you have any self awareness at all? Really?
this on top of
>hahahah BC doesn't work yes after you wrecked it like jesus christ. Its like talking to actual children.
>>3797>that was all you guysMate I know I'm the most powerful poster in all incarnations of /leftypol/, but despite my best efforts off-site cliquery continues to exist. If I had my way there would be no matrix whatsoever, mods could communicate on-board like normal people. (If they really must have their private conversations, let them do so on a hidden board.)
>this was not the case before a long term smear campaign and you know it. It absolutely was. It wasn't an off-site smear campaign that made me dislike chatrooms, that's a taste i've had long before /leftypol/ in any incarnation.
>you mods see
>>3699[spoiler]except, of course, that I disapproved of your ban on bunkerchan, since my view is that your Matrix would simply be a waste of timme rather than something harmful.[/spoiler]
>mod speak for under your control It's a shame you've posted so regularly, Sage, otherwise I could dignify this with the assumption that you were malicious rather than simply naive.
Any of the off-the-shelf off-site solutions are either trivial to manipulate (strawpolls) or wind up excluding the average imageboard user, who isn't going to join the discord, the subreddit, the matrix, the official IRC, the alt.communism.leftypol usenet group and the /leftypol/ neocities webring. You trade manipulation from admins for manipulation by an unrepresentative sample of the userbase, and one which is much more likely to see the imageboard as something secondary than as the lifeblood of the entire project.
>no, come on. Go ahead and explain how someone other than d0llars (who now controls bunkerchan) ends the split, I'll wait.
>and yet, you are completely unwilling it seems to admit that maybe some neutral ground neither party controls is needed for thisNo such thing is necessary, and further: No neutral ground among the userbase is of any use because the userbase do not control the websites, and it's the websites where the bulk of the users post. You could hypothetically transplant the entire userbase of all /leftypol/ incarnations to your Matrix and it would be useless in the face of one simple fact: d0llars controls the bunkerchan servers, if he doesn't want to merge then nobody can force him to.
>To say there was originally fault on both sides and then after say, but after that, the perpetuation of the split was entirely the fault of one side, is just plain petulant.One side has undergone regime change, the other has not. The gulf between space and the former moderators was impossible to bridge after the split, with space out of the picture that should no longer be a factor - and yet it is.
>yes after you wrecked it like jesus christ.I did no such thing, but I approve it wholeheartedly: For every one poster who is oh-so-upset about culpability, two will come here because it just works. If the administration of bunkerchan are so incompetent that they can't deal with one mod going rogue then there's no hope for them against anything else. One hard drive crash and Watermelon's actions will look as insignificant as a single 500 error.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>3798>If I had my way there would be no matrix whatsoever, mods could communicate on-board like normal people.but they don't. And while they don't, the posters should have their own.
>It absolutely was.no it wasn't at all, the board 2015/16 had plenty chatrooms, this was its peak. Your taste doesn't effect that.
>Any of the off-the-shelf off-site solutions are either trivial to manipulatemuch more difficult to manipulate than anon boards.
> or wind up excluding the average imageboard user, who isn't going to join the discord, the subreddit, the matrix, the official IRC,if you don't want to vote that is okay. If it is made plain this is happening and you want to vote you can get involved.
> You trade manipulation from admins for manipulation by an unrepresentative sample of the userbaseyes which is much better, regardless of the fact I believe people should be informed of the voting process and actively encouraged to join it. Rather than the complete opposite which is what takes place now, smearing and blocking all attempts at some kind of board input.
>Go ahead and explain how someone other than d0llars (who now controls bunkerchan) ends the split, I'll wait.mods from both boards and posters from both boards get in a matrix room and come to a solution.
Having talked to dollars, hes not some kind of monster has it would appear.
>d0llars controls the bunkerchan servers, if he doesn't want to merge then nobody can force him to.except if we had the whole poster base we could take real material action.
>and yet it is. why do you think this is? Because dollars is muh ebil boogeyman? Or perhaps… because… wounds were made on both sides and amends needs to be made? Maye possibly?
> For every one poster who is oh-so-upset about culpability, two will come here because it just works.extremely short term thinking. For a socdem and all "ah, I see the completely unrepresentative body has done one thing kind of okay, therefore they will do this into the future, despite the fact their methods were extremely antithetical what they outwardly project as their image as poor battered mods who just want the best for the posters " Yes i am sure these people would never do anything to harm the posters…
>>3800>And while they don't, the posters should have their own. It is grossly impractical to shepherd the userbase into a talking shop. It's all well and good talking about this in a neat theoretical sense, but you have no way to engineer the circumstances necessary to bring it about. If it was a matter of just asking people to come over then the split would already have been resolved in
someone's favour.
>the board 2015/16 had plenty chatroomsAnd they've died while the board endured, because the board is the heart of the board. (Who knew?)
>much more difficult to manipulate than anon boards. lel. you've really never fucked with strawpolls?
>if you don't want to vote that is okay. If it is made plain this is happening and you want to vote you can get involved. This is the imageboard version of voter ID laws. Who could possibly object to simply telling people that there's an election on, tell them how to vote, and then putting a slight barrier in their way? The practical result of the barrier is that plenty of people will not vote. Disenfranchisement without the messy implications of actually admitting that's what it is.
I will not join a chatroom sever to vote, even with a throwaway account. Plenty of others have the same behavior, and if you try to explain their reasons why it will invite the arrogant to say "Well if they're too lazy to make an account, they don't deserve a vote!" as though it's fine to misrepresent the userbase so long as it's only to exclude people born with bad traits.
>yes which is much betterHighly questionable. Admins at least have skin in the game in that if they fuck up and ignore the userbase, the userbase will fuck off and they'll be left king of fuck all. An unrepresentative sample of the userbase is much harder to reason with, and will continue to argue against the wishes of the userbase as a whole. Better to live under a tribune of the plebs than a pre-1832 parliament.
>mods from both boards and posters from both boards get in a matrix room and come to a solution. If d0llars was willing to discuss a solution there would be a thread for that purpose on Bunkerchan right now. Instead, he locked the last one when it was less than 10% full and doesn't even allow discussion in the current variation.
I don't believe he's a monster, I believe he's an idiot.
>except if we had the whole poster base we could take real material action. Do you really believe the entire userbase is going to follow the call to action of a chatroom most of them will promptly ignore? Especially when the practical options are basically limited to: move to one site, attack one site, stay in the chatroom, or start a third site.
>Because dollars is muh ebil boogeyman? Or perhaps… because… wounds were made on both sides and amends needs to be made? Maye possibly? Perhaps he should get the fuck over himself, this community is more important than his hurt feelings and if he's not straining every sinew to bring it back together then I can only lament that his wounds aren't physical.
>For a socdem and all dangerous and down right stupid
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>3836you really ought to read up on the trial
the person he was accused of raping wasn't even in the building at the time. increasingly, the evidence suggests that none of the women who made complaints against him wanted to go to trial* and that it only happened because the Scottish Government went over their heads to have Police Scotland press charges against him anyway.
*which of course doesn't make them liars - there are many legitimate reasons that they may not have wanted to do so even if he was guilty - but there are far fewer legitimate reasons for the Scottish Government to ignore their expressed wishes in the hopes of kneecapping the former first minister.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>3835>actually bombing ethnic cleansers is badwish i could turn back time
to the good old daysss
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/uk-labour-party-hires-former-israeli-spyThe UK Labour Party has hired a former Israeli spy to help manage its social media, The Electronic Intifada can reveal.Assaf Kaplan will work in the office of Labour leader Keir Starmer, a source with knowledge of the hire said.
Kaplan was in Israeli military intelligence for nearly five years, an officer in Unit 8200, its cyberwarfare branch.
Unit 8200 specializes in spying, hacking and encryption. It carries out blackmail, mass surveillance and systematic discrimination against Palestinians.
>>3848Voted for the Iraq war I believe
>>3849Wow labour can literally fuck off completely
>>3839the comparative success of the humanitarian intervention in Kosovo lead directly to the overconfidence that destroyed Iraq.
(and also a lot of kids being burdened with the name Tonibler.)
>>3840If that was true then she wouldn't be purposefully obstructing the inquiry and he wouldn't be trying to bring forward evidence that further strengthens the case for her resignation to said inquiry.
Indeed, if Sturgeon had wanted to protect him it would likely never have gone to trial, given recent suggestions the women who made the accusations did not want to go to court.
>>3844>today I will log onto leftypol.org to accuse an innocent man of rape in order to help the supposedly nationalist Scottish Government cover up their attempt to entrap him.democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>3853Silence from Tommy Robinson
>>3863Were British. And that’s the way we like it.
>>3878tbh it's probably more like a desire to make up for lost EU immigration + knowledge wealthy HKers aren't going to pose as big a political problem as people of average income would + a feeling of having to do something about HK but not having many realistic options.
there's no need to import anti-communist sentiment when communist sentiment is as low as it presently is and communist organizing is perhaps the most dysfunctional it has ever been.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>3881what've you got against rats
are you that orphan who was cucked out of a family by stuart little
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>3899the stems of literally fucking nothing. if every supposedly pro-palestine organization was as effective at undermining israeli occupation as the AWL is at palming off newspapers on people who don't really want them (not a high bar) israel would've been gone by 1976.
if you have no idea what the end result of the flora spouting shoots on your organization is, it's probably mould.
>>3901acorn are activist when they're organizing tenants, where they can actually fuck up landlords
they're slacktivist when they're adopting foreign policy positions, where they're utterly powerless.
>>3903they should say nothing because they're a fucking tenants union, they unionize tenants. you don't ask the NHS if it has an opinion on the armenian genocide.
>>3905because it's a pompous waste of time that creates excuses for splits and bad press while doing absolutely nothing to advance any practical aim.
you say fuck israel, and israel goes on existing. acorn says fuck israel, and israel goes on existing, and for as long as people think that the way forward is to get cardiff uni biology society to tweet #fuckisrael israel is going to go on existing.
a tenants union saying "fuck israel" is the working class version of pepsi saying black lives matter. the only major difference is that pepsi might get some return on their hollow verbiage.
>>3907moronic.
imagine wanting to increase the chance of rent strikes being defeated just because you don't agree on foreign policy issues that neither of you have any power whatsoever to influence.
>>3909i see you have no actual response.
pathetic confessional politics from an impotent nonce.
>>3933Yeah imagine all the landlords and bosses who also rent that will join. This totally ridiculous fringe case is the definitive case we should continue to throw time into unions that are totally regulated by the government.
I hope ACORN doesn't discriminate against landlords and bosses either, as that would not be representing ALL renters, and that's the way I deem they should operate and the basis on which I continue to attack them.
Join your local government sanctioned union today! It
Represents Labour™ #JoinAUnion
>>3935Notice how all these things refer to farming land.
They are about peasants and their relationship to the means of production. Housing has no relation to the means of production
brocialismBrocialism >>3937Acorns is a consumer advocacy group not a union.
Unions refer to labourers organisation. If me and the lads start a petitions to reduce the price of pint at the local, have we now formed a revolutionary drinkers union?
brocialismBrocialism >>3940How is housing "consuming a product", did a blacksmith consume the product of the lord whose land he lived on?
>>3938 You mention farming, but feudal dynamics also involved a lot of rural industry existing on land owned by aristocratic landlords. Are they "consumers" too??
>>3940Okay, let's call it a consumer advocacy group for the purpose of this conversation.
Can you explain to me why we should take your support of unions seriously when there's a consumer advocacy group more radical than every union in the country? Is the butthurt behind this your reasoning for wanting them to be apolitical and to represent zionists, bosses and landlords? (absolute cuck position btw)
>>3944>It is necessary that this appearance be abolished – that landed property, the root of private property, be dragged completely into the movement of private property and that it become a commodity; that the rule of the proprietor appear as the undisguised rule of private property, of capital, freed of all political tincture; that the relationship between proprietor and worker be reduced to the economic relationship of exploiter and exploited; that all […] personal relationship between the proprietor and his property cease, property becoming merely objective, material wealth; that the marriage of convenience should take the place of the marriage of honor with the land; and that the land should likewise sink to the status of a commercial value, like man. It is essential that that which is the root of landed property – filthy self-interest – make its appearance, too, in its cynical form. It is essential that the immovable monopoly turn into the mobile and restless monopoly, into competition; and that the idle enjoyment of the products of other people’s blood and sweat turn into a bustling commerce in the same commodity. Lastly, it is essential that in this competition landed property, in the form of capital, manifest its dominion over both the working class and the proprietors themselves who are either being ruined or raised by the laws governing the movement of capital.R E A D
>>3952They should work on representing EVERYONE in the Levant and stop worrying about things they have no control over
t. leftypol pro
>>3962>>3963The irony is that the taxes
were related to the means of production: their taxes were agricultural goods, it was literally surplus value.
>>3973It very well could be a thing soon if I understand correctly, the details are a bit fuzzy for me though.
t. Canadian
>>3985Wow
Burgerstani I presume
At least our local police union gets butthurt when they get kicked out of the umbrella org for being shits
>>3990Much like many of them joined Labour to get Labour elected? Oh wait, every single Zionist conspired to wreck, there wasn't a single one that didn't.
>>3991As we all know the world is a static object where nothing ever evolves at all.
>>3993Well sure, but you also use a piano. You couldn't have a piano buyers union.
Since renting a flat is not part of the means of production you cannot start a union around it.
brocialismBrocialism >>3994The direct collective action is just a form of advocacy.
PETA is not an animals union
brocialismBrocialism >>4000Only if its around withholding labour.
If they come together to try and get better rent on their cars from a 3rd party, that is consumer advocacy
brocialismBrocialism >>3916come on lads don't tell me none of you get this fine reference
what is Acorn's policy on the crimes committed by the Croats, who are - by allah - Thatcherites.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>4011So nowhere then
>>4009Well, yes that’s called a boycott
>>4014Canada:
>Guns>Weed>Lots of prescription drugs>Abundance of fake designer clothes>Boring politicsUK:
>Pedophiles>Knife crime>Tories>Political groups with strong opinions on politics >>4022Joe Exotic Arkan
Freedom lovers wrongly imprisoned for crimes theydidn't commit who also like tigers.
>>4022I already know, maybe this is a sign.
Also no wonder everyone wanted to join Arkan's militia when he's bravely bringing disco-folk into the 90's.
>>4024do you know where you're going to find a tiger in this country
also what genre of music will you bring into the 2020s if elected our nominee for committing 24 crimes against humanity, grave breaches of the geneva conventions, and violations of the laws of war?
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>4028>do you know where you're going to find a tiger in this countryWhere did Arkan get his? Did he steal it from a zoo or buy it?
>also what genre of music will you bring into the 2020s if elected our nominee for committing 24 crimes against humanity, grave breaches of the geneva conventions, and violations of the laws of war?Well disco was already dated by the Yugoslav wars so I will continue the tradition. Maybe I will bring back jungle, or perhaps I will create youtube mashups of nu-metal and Death Grips. Dubstep was also popular a similar amount of time ago relative to disco and the Yugoslav wars. It's all on the table.
>>4029lmfao
I feel like this is one accordion and VHS effect away from looking like an actual Yugo war video
>>4029needs the shitty vhs filter + superimposed dominic grieve smiling in a waffen-ss handschar uniform
B E A C O N S F I E L D M A R T Y R S B R I G A D E
>>4040I say
Also if you arn't doing that then unions have no rev potential
brocialismBrocialism >>4041Finace capital gets its money from the means of production originally.
You can't unionise around not buying their shit, the labourers power is in withholding his labour from the means of production
Everything else is idealism
brocialismBrocialism >>4051nobody ever pretended Acorn was a trade union you fucking moron.
i hope you're a member of Cretins and Spastics local 5701.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>4045Yeh and who the fuck u bro.. nobody is who
And why is there no revolutionary potential? Rentierism is one of the foundations of capitalism
>inb4 nu-uh it’s feudalism Feudal and capital rent is extremely different
>>4047Rent gets it’s money from the means of production originally lmao dude. I work. My boss takes a chunk of the Value, then I give about half to my landlord. With the rest I pay bills and council tax. Then I eat. That’s all my labour value and refusing to give it to my landlord is removing my labour value.
>>4052YEAH ITS NOT A TRADE UNION
ITS A CONSUMER ADOVACY GROUP
brocialismBrocialism >>40541. You could eliminate rent and still have capitalism
2. You can't challenge the means of production by trying to not buy stuff
brocialismBrocialism >>4057it's a
tenants union, clue's in the name.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>4059You literally can't have a consumers union
Its an oxymoron
brocialismBrocialism >>40601) Give me any example from any time in history ever of capitalism that did not involve rentierism.
2) but you aren’t buying it, you are renting it, which is different
>>40661.There was no rent in the soviet union
2. Renting a product is no different to buying it
brocialismBrocialism >>4065your position makes no logical sense.
taken to your words, the International Telecommunication Union calling itself a union is fine because it's just a group of Telecommunication providers, but Acorn calling itself a tenants union is unacceptable because its just a union of tenants and not the fucking GMB.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism >>4067So Nazi germany was socalist then?
If we are just gonna accept whatever people name themselves. Fucking cretin
brocialismBrocialism >>4073>No, they named themselves the wrong thing, in order to deliberately decieve the workers.Yes just like acorn the renters """"""""""""""""Union"""""""""""""""""
Lieing to the psedu socialist milianial working class
brocialismBrocialism >>4082Doesn't count , as I've already said
Peasants overthrowing landlords - socialist you are taking over your means of production
First world renters getting 10% off their inner city rent - not effecting the means of production , not socalism
brocialismBrocialism >>4087>In 2013, Yang Liping, a notable Chinese dancer, claimed that she had seen cannibalism during the Cultural Revolution, although not necessarily in Guangxi. She stated that "I am pessimistic about humanity and pessimistic about humans. Because we have been through the Cultural Revolution, we have become very alert. I am very alert, alert like a peacock. Be careful, because humans are the most horrible animals, otherwise Michael Jackson wouldn't have died……I saw people eat people, and people hurt people, just like nowadays. Nowadays people can hurt you anytime, yet they don't even know why they hurt you."<Be careful, because humans are the most horrible animals, otherwise Michael Jackson wouldn't have died >>4086So up until the point they actually did this, they were just doing consumer advocacy? All that planning, not revolutionary at all, but the act, that is socialism. Maaaate.
Lets reverse it, can you have proper socialism with landlords in it?
>>4088>everything is fascist if it doesn't agree with me >>4091>trade unions aren't realum.. anon
>>4093Pretty sure I know like 3 people I suspect of posting here and like 5 I suspect of once having posted here. 2 of those I'm not sure if they still do. Pretty sure like, one of my best pals posts here in fact, or at least, we were very good pals. Hes a very busy man now, sad times but hes doing good stuff. But I'm also not sure if I just make connections that aren't there.
Don't be a tease sugar give me some clues. Do you think we have been in actions together? Are you the guy that… posted that you were in one of the pictures when I posted a picture of Acorn and Living Rent?
>>4095i literally don't. Somebody is hiding their power level big time. I have a handful of suspects, I know some anarchists who would say some of these things. I know one potential maoist who memes very hard on FB and I suspect at the very least he knows about this place. Difficult to tell these days with the level of meme saturation
>>4033I’m an American, I heard about it on Caspian Report
Tho he said it isn’t likely because it’s retarded for everyone and would be a new EU and also would probably be completely at the mercy of the US
In other words it’s still ogre for Anglos
>>40991. So up until the point they actually did this, they were just doing consumer advocacy? All that planning, not revolutionary at all, but the act, that is socialism. Maaaate.
The relationship to land if you are a peasent who uses his land as a means of production, versus a renter who uses it as a luxury to sleep.
2. No most communist in Britian are social facist, because they are social democratic, as in they focus on reforms in Britian that would continue imperialsm
3. Yeah there are no large scale trade unions in Britian that regularly challenge capital. Rail unions being a possible exception
4.No clues , ;)
brocialismBrocialism >>4130Real proletarians live in a condemned building or a tent in the woods, post from McDonalds wifi, and shower at the gym, and when it comes down to it two of those are luxuries.
When you think about it even Jeff Bezos could be a tenant. He isn't because he can afford to buy any street he walks down. But he could be.
The International Criminal Tribunal for the former United Kingdom (ICTFUK) was a body of the Neo United Nations established to prosecute serious crimes committed during the British Wars, and to try their perpetrators. The tribunal was an ad hoc court located in Berwick-upon-Tweed, Scotland.
The Court was established by Resolution 1945 of the Neo United Nations Security Council, which was passed on 8 June 2033. It had jurisdiction over four clusters of crimes committed on the territory of the former United Kingdom since 2021: grave breaches of the Neo Neo-Geneva Conventions, violations of the laws or customs of war, genocide, and crimes against humanity. The maximum sentence it could impose was breaking on the hoverwheel. Various countries signed agreements with the UN to carry out custodial sentences.
A total of 1066 persons were indicted; the final indictments were issued in December 2040, the last of which were confirmed and unsealed in the spring of 2041. The final fugitive, Sir Keir Rodney Starmer KCB QC VC, was arrested on 20 July 2045 and charged with all of the above. The final judgment was issued on 4 April 2047 and the institution formally ceased to exist on 31 May 2047. The institution was formally re-activated by Resolution 2017 of the Neo United Nations Security Council in January of 2048 following a daring jailbreak by convicted war criminals Sir Keir Rodney "Man Eater" Starmer KCB QC VC, Alexander Boris "Shellfish" de Pfeffel Johnson, and Amir al-Mu'minin Ed Davey, among others. The trio remain at large and are widely believed to be taking part in the ongoing civil war in the Republic of Cymru (aka the Republic of West England, aka the Neo Caliphate of Pembrokeshire and the Valleys)democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism
>>4130Yes, under capitalism rented accommodation is a luxury good.
You could always live in the forest, or alternatively move to a smaller flat, or share with more people.
brocialismBrocialism >>4137>You could always live in the forestbased protracted people's retard
>or alternatively move to a smaller flati've always wanted to live in a bin like oscar the grouch
>or share with more people.<lmao how are you poor, just turn your home into a refugee camp, sorry i'm a socialist so i don't do consumer advocacy bullshit >>4137Can I just get my head around something.
You (rightly) criticise trade unions etc for being imperialist and first-worlder but also think that Zionism is leftist?
fuck you guys "braking on the hoverwheel" is funny, i don't care what you say. the minute the british wars happen i'm telling the Yorkists you've got Lancastrians in your cupboard so your house gets destroyed.
>>4146he's normally stupid but in his case he's actually right. it's utterly moronic to undermine the unionization of tenants in a building because 5 of them think that israel is good, a meaningless opinion in the face of the lack of any practical action to support israel.
democratic_socialismDemocratic Socialism>>4158>you can’t breathe properly in them You’re one of those cunts coming into my work pretending to be asthmatic aren’t you. Listen, no mask= dirty slag, catching STIs, passing them on. No different with Rona. Although even worse because you leninhat have never let me put it in your bum. Don’t be a slag. Wear a mask.
>>4161They are LITERALLY more amenable to communism.
Left wing isn’t based on being pro brexit you absolute melt.
And acquaintance friend I’ve not forgotten about you I just cba writing a serious post about how retarded you are right now
>>4173Rented acomadiotn under capataislsm operates as a luxury good.
You need food to live
If I form a broccoli buyers union, that ain't a union
brocialismBrocialism >>4174There is no such thing as a "luxury good". That's capitalist nonsense for neoliberals who think any poor people who spend money on some cookies or maybe a pint are wasteful greedy subhumans who need to tighten their belt while we have a monarch sat on a gold throne with a crown with 2000 diamonds in it.
Marx literally said that consumer products are equal in importance as life's necessities. Not to mention shelter is a necessity.
>>4178All necessities are made luxury goods under capitalism
READ MARX
brocialismBrocialism Unique IPs: 1