Let's mantain the civil discussion we were having in the last thread.
Last thread got full.
FULL SIZZLEGANG FOR THE WINOriginal post:
Is there a proxy conflict coming?
US will act ‘decisively’ if Russia deploys military to Cuba or Venezuela – White House
https://www.rt.com/russia/546021-moscow-presence-cuba-venezuela/Are NATO and Russia on the brink of war over the Ukraine crisis? (Ex-UK ambassador to Russia)
https://www.rt.com/podcast/546013-russia-nato-ukraine-crisis/US claims Russia preparing ‘false flag’ in Ukraine
https://www.rt.com/russia/546091-us-false-flag-ukraine/Russia ‘fabricating a pretext for invasion’ of Ukraine – White House
https://www.rt.com/russia/546049-kremlin-fabricating-reason-ukraine-invasion/Is Russia really preparing an offensive against Ukraine?
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/546082-russian-military-exercise-ukrainian-border/CIA-trained special ops could fight Russians in case of Ukrainian invasion – report
https://www.rt.com/russia/546041-cia-special-troops-ukraine-invasion/Ukraine hit by huge cyber attack
https://www.rt.com/russia/546026-ukrainian-government-agencies-massive-cyberattack/Russia-NATO relations at critical level, Moscow warns
https://www.rt.com/russia/545911-moscow-nato-relations-hazards/US to train ‘Ukrainian insurgents’ in EU – media
https://www.rt.com/russia/546143-us-train-ukraine-insurgents-reports/US seeking ways to profit should Russia-Ukraine conflict break out – reports
https://www.rt.com/business/546138-us-lng-russia-europe-sanctions/Also: requesting that tweet where Lukashenko says that this year they reunite Belarus, Russia, Ukraine, etc.
To check for news:
https://liveuamap.com/esTo check for (military) planes:
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/I'm gonna post my opinion about the russian matter in here as well, it's my post, you can't do nothing about it:
Russia has tried to join NATO, twice.
No real reason for NATO to actually not accept, you would literally have world domination, aside from China.
This is because of a very simple reason, NATO wants to balkanize Russia. The very existence of Russia is a menace to NATO, and I don't mean this because they're "scared" of russian people, but how much territory they occupy.
Russia is the major country that will get a benefit from climate change, it's a country with a lot of natural resources because it literally owns about 1/8 of the planet or so.
It's the literal counterpart of the US, and the US wants it destroyes so it can truly be the world dominator without having no one to actually stand to them. Also Russia has lotsa nukes.
Not saying tho that Russia is an anti-imperialist nation, it is a capitalist nation and capitalism itself enables imperialism, it's a feature, not a dlc. But the thing is that NATO is searching for Russia is to be completely destroyed and balkanized in 5 states or more.
Also the Rimland theory is more important (at least that'd what NATO officials believe) than what you think.
So in thic conflict I support Russia for these reasons.
>Russia is actively defending itself against an outside invader that wants to mutilate it out of paranoia.>Ukraine isn't worth a damn supporting, they have incorporated in their army neo-nazi paramilitaries.>Ukraine is also a shithole that would be better under russian control… Probably (not that hard of a test tbh, being better than a comprador regime for NATO isn't that hard).>More power to Russia means less power to the US, which will make it more aggressive. Supporting Russia is literally accelerationism to ww3, but accelerationism nonetheless, and no, I don't want ww3, I don't like to happen, but one thing is to not like war and the other is to delude oneself into believing that it will not happen, it will happen because it's the natural course of capitalism. This is more asking for a swift death than a prolonged, painful suffering under late stage capitalism.>Seriously, fuck the Ukrainian goverment.>In fact, fuck ALL nato states, including mine.Despite this, I recognize that:
>Russia is a capitalist country. Thus means that it is imperialist because imperialism is the capitalist drive for profit natural course of action, read imperialism, the last stage of capitalism. Every capitalist country will become either imperialist, or imperialized, and Russia clearly isn't being imperialized as, say, Togo is.>Russia is ruled by a capitalist class, the same class that killed the Soviet Union and thus killed AES.>The russian state is actively smearing the soviet union, by example making the gulag archipelago a required reading in schools, meanwhile putting into a shrine a fake version of Stalin, deluding themselves into thinking he was a fascistic strong dictator instead of the antithesis of fascism which is why russian rightwingers love to say that they liked Stalin but hate Lenin, despite the former being literally a disciple and rightful succesor to Lenin's theories and politics.Btw this also applies to China.
>>506438Rescheduled for 3:30 EST
>>506440Thanks
>>506452It should be noted this is a non-binding resolution, so for it to actually get passed Putin has to sign it, which he indicated he wont. But it doesn't have a time limit, so he can just defer on signing it and let it sit on his desk until all negotiations have failed.
>>506454The real reason to sign it, is after officially recognizing it, the Russian Federation can formally note that Ukraine is attempting a policy of genocide/deliberately targeting civilians in DPR/LNR and under international law, the same one the US used in Yugoslavia, can begin combat operations against Ukraine to halt said policy
>>506457Why not take it all?
>Noooo he can't do that west of the Dnieper everyone hates himAnd what are they gonna do.
It's literal plains (although the west has some hills and so on, but regardless) and if a city rebels they will just get inside with the army.
Also fuck Ukrainians.
>>506466This is from the Estonian Foreing Intelligence Service, not the US intelligence.
Also we're already on the second half of february.
>>506473Guys.
The terrorist attack wasn't even perfomed.
This isn't leading to anything.
The US intelligence said that they (russians) would "make" a video of how the Ukrainian Army is invading, trying to do a "false flag attack".
The US (and Ukraine for that matter) strategy is to attack, say that the Russians are lying and attacking them, and appear like they're the defenders.
This won't start with Russia attacking, it will start with this, US-led operation.
>>506475 (me)
>Why would they do this.Because right now, the Nordstream is more important than the Ukraine vassal state they've proped up.
They want to make Europe fall in line.
>>506476And Europe doesn't even want to block Nordstream even if Russia invades Ukraine.
What's really bizarre is that nobody recognizes the annexation of Crimea, which means Russia technically already invaded Ukraine. But I guess they refrain, since that would definitely lead to war with Russia. Which just might be the next step, since Russia isn't fucking interested in striking first, but US still wants Nordstream 2 dead.
>>506480>And Europe doesn't even want to block Nordstream even if Russia invades Ukraine. Indeed.
We shall see who wins out in Europe, or the atlantic cucks or the people who actually can see NATO shouldn't exist anymore.
>>506483They're "avowed communists" right up until contradictions of capitalism actually hit. Then capitalism is invincible and sustainable, and history is actually over.
>inb4 we're just blackpilled!No.
I am the one who is blackpilled. You're just an anti-communist faggot.
>>506486Desires and intentions are irrelevant next to systemic pressure exerted on the people involved. The entire situation can spiral out of anybody's control at a moment's notice, and it's basically just luck that kept the war from starting already.
>>506489Post screen-caps, redditfag.
>>506491cant post images on tor, not worth it anyways
>>506490not sure about source but based Russian double agents
>>506488i wonder if this guy still fights, I think he's too old now
>>506491>Desires and intentions are irrelevant next to systemic pressure exerted on the people involved. That's just it. If that were the case, we wouldn't have gotten this far in the first place. We would be in nuclear winter since at least the 60s by now. There must be something
systemic preventing crapitalism from destroying itself multiple times over. Marxism can't seem to explain it (or any science for that matter), but
something is keeping this damn dystopian hellhole alive. Metaphysical, some quantum BS maybe, I don't know. When I studied our history, the 20th century just seems like an unnatural amount of bad outcomes that shouldn't have happened and blocked further human development. Maybe we are in a bloody simulation afterall or in a limbo – a bad joke. This world seems ever more surreal as time goes on and it becomes increasingly unbearable.
All I know is: This is a
nothingburger! I can't explain why, but it just "is." Until we "break the matrix" if you will, nothing will fundamentally change. (See what I did there?)
>>506497>the despair of vulgar materialistThe fall of capitalism isn't mechanically inevitable, it's statistically inevitable. The inherent contradictions within capitalism induce repeated crises in the base, internal or external, at which point the superstructure takes over, and human actions actually matter. History rolls a dice, but the dice is loaded. Before, the existence of the Soviet Union forced the bourgeoisie to somewhat behave themselves, and even then, we repeatedly came close to WW3, but communists, actually possessing humanity tempered its chances. Now that Russia is capitalist, anything goes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Arkhipov>Unlike the other submarines in the flotilla, three officers on board B-59 had to agree unanimously to authorize a nuclear launch: Captain Savitsky, the political officer Ivan Semonovich Maslennikov, and the chief of staff of the flotilla (and executive officer of B-59) Arkhipov. Typically, Soviet submarines armed with the "Special Weapon" only required the captain to get authorization from the political officer to launch a nuclear torpedo, but due to Arkhipov's position as chief of staff, B-59's captain also was required to gain his approval. An argument broke out, with only Arkhipov against the launch.One vote.
That's how close.
Russian Lawmakers Approve Resolution To Recognize Separatist Regions In Ukraine
>The Russian parliament's lower chamber, the State Duma, has voted in favor of sending a resolution to ask President Vladimir Putin to recognize two territories in eastern Ukraine held by separatists as independent states.>Duma speaker Vyacheslav Volodin, a member of the pro-Kremlin ruling United Russia party, said after the move was approved by lawmakers on February 15 that he will sign the resolution immediately and send it to Putin for consideration.>The move, if approved by Putin, could further exacerbate tensions with the West over a Russian military buildup of an estimated 130,000 troops near the border with Ukraine that has fueled fears of an imminent attack. Russia has steadfastly denied any such plans and has accused the West of creating a crisis with its hysteria.>Recognition of the two entities, which call themselves the Donetsk and Luhansk people's republics and comprise part of the region commonly known as the Donbas, could also spell the end of the Minsk peace process in east Ukraine, where a conflict between government forces and Moscow-backed separatists has killed more than 13,200 people since April 2014.>"This recognition would be a clear violation of the Minsk agreements," said Josep Borrell, the European Union's top diplomat.>"EU support and commitment to Ukraine's independence, sovereignty, and territorial integrity within its internationally recognized borders remains unwavering," he added.>Earlier in the day, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters in Moscow that there were no official discussions about recognizing the two regions.>Russia has been pushing Ukraine to implement the Minsk agreements which, according to Moscow, envision special status for the separatist-controlled territories to give them more autonomy within Ukraine.>Kyiv has rejected the notion, however, saying it is a thinly veiled attempt by the Kremlin to federalize Ukraine and ultimately take control of it.>Russia has provided military, economic, and political support to the separatists. Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, Moscow maintains that it is not involved in Ukraine's domestic affairs.>Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba told reporters that if Putin approves recognition of the territories, "Russia will de facto and de jure withdraw from the Minsk agreements with all the attendant consequences.">Volodin alleged that Ukraine isn't observing the Minsk agreements.>"Our citizens and compatriots who live in Donbas need our help and support," he said on Twitter.>Putin declined to be drawn out on whether he plans to approve the resolution. Speaking at a joint news conference with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, he said Russians were sympathetic to the residents of the Donbas region, but he wanted the regions' problems to be resolved through the Minsk accords.>He also claimed without presenting any evidence that Ukraine was committing “genocide” in its eastern provinces, where many native Russian-speakers live.>The comment raised concern over the possibility of a provocation in the Ukraine crisis. Putin has said in the past that Moscow is ready to protect ethnic Russians outside its borders.>Scholz called Putin’s “genocide” statement “wrong.”https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-luhansk-donetsk-duma-recognition/31704804.html>>506510 (not him)
In fact, you gotta consider that NATO is not only the US, but also all of the countries of the EU. The french military might be compenet, the german one might be as well, but what about the polish one? Or the military competency of the baltic states? Or from Spain and Greece?
NATO has, like, 5 actual military powers, and the rest are just spicier Austria-Hungary's. You can't win a war with like 30 countries 25 of which are more interested in having more money in their swiss accounts than to actually fight.
SAUDI ARABIA REJECTS BIDEN PLEA TO INCREASE OIL PRODUCTION AS MIDTERMS LOOM
“High gas prices will almost certainly be blamed on the party in power, so it really seems like the Saudis are using the oil weapon against Democrats here.”
https://theintercept.com/2022/02/15/saudi-arabia-gas-price-oil/>>506515>5 actual military powerseh, I'd say it's more like 3
US, France, and Turkey
>>5065071) a real hot war between US and Russia would probably go nuclear very quickly, with both sides doing tons of damage. The US is arguably worse prepared for a combined-operations large scale conflict, because they don't practice it and waste money, though they do have many more resources.
2) Russia knows that the US has more to lose and less to gain in such a scenario and would never directly fight Russia over Ukraine.
>>506507>against Ukraineyeah, it'd be over in three days functionally
>NATOdoesn't matter since we're atomic dust
>>506512>the despair of vulgar materialistGuilty, I guess.
>The fall of capitalism isn't mechanically inevitable, it's statistically inevitable.Are you sure? Capitalism went through multiple crises of overproduction, which should have killed it, yet it's still chugging along, while the prospect for socialism is as far away as ever, since the proletariat everywhere is terminally brainwashed despite all contradictions. The rate of profit is almost practically zero and signs show that capitalism may revert to techno-feudalism or a similar abomination to compensate. This doesn't seem natural. Something is rigged here!
>One voooot prevented nuclear warIt's hindsight, I know, but if I could turn back time, man…
Nuclear winter would have been preferable compared to the slow collapse through climate catastrophe, which we will be getting instead. Literally anything is better. There is not much as profoundly scary than collapsing into barbarism and then slowly going extinct because of its consequences.
If I could turn back time further, I would prevent the murder of Rosa Luxembourg and Liebknecht and maybe avoid all the awful things that happened in the 20th century.
We might have been a type 1 civilisation by now; already on the road to type 2. I fucking hate this timeline!
>>506520Purely out of curiosity…
Does AZOV make recruitment ads and videos and shit?
And if so…
What do they look like?
>China says U.S. is exaggerating Russian threat to Ukraine-ReutersBEIJING, Feb 16 (Reuters) - China accused the United States of "playing up the threat of warfare and creating tension", as U.S. President Joe Biden warned that more than 150,000 Russian troops were still massed near Ukraine's borders following Moscow's announcement of a partial pullback.
Western nations have suggested arms control and confidence-building steps to defuse the stand-off, which has prompted them to urge their citizens to leave Ukraine because an attack could come at any time. Russia denies it has any plans to invade.
"Such persistent hyping up and disinformation by some Western countries will create turbulence and uncertainty to the world full of challenges, and intensify distress and division," Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin told reporters at a regular briefing in Beijing on Wednesday.
"We hope relevant parties will stop such disinformation campaigns and do more to benefit peace, mutual trust and cooperation."
China has been criticised for its stance on Ukraine by some Western leaders, including Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison.
"The leadership of the two heads of state, China and Russia, always work to develop long term good neighbourliness and mutually beneficial cooperative relationship on the basis of non-alliance, non-confrontation and non-targeting of third countries," spokesman Wang added.
https://www.reuters.com/world/china-says-us-is-exaggerating-russian-threat-ukraine-2022-02-16/ >>506507of course not
their military expenditure is tiny in comparison, their entire economy is the size of the italian one
its over
>>506617>who’s willing to die for ukraineApparently the chinlets. They still believe that they may finally get the longed for Lebensraum. LOL
Fucking suicidal death cultists as always…
>>506621Bitch I want him to be on a Liveleak video unironically.
In minecraft In real life.
>>506619He'll talk a lot of shit from hs cuckshed, but ultimately he's a grifter, he won't endanger himself.
Can you imagine that faggot trying to hike across the Ukrainian countryside in full kit and getting shot at?
>>506581We are seeing a lot facewashing of the western media of these nazis. History being repeated all over again when churchill praised hitler
I swear god, the brits fucking deserved it, and if this shit goes again, they will fucking deserve it again.
>>506673>ShariyRandom blogger living in Europe who makes Ukrainians seethe. He isn't even good, lol
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVPYbobPRzz0SjinWekjUBwHave no idea who's Guzhva, though
Putin is close to winning in UkraineMarkets bet a Western sell-out on Mr Putin’s terms is the most likely outcomeRussia has amassed foreign exchange reserves of $635bn, the fifth highest in the world and rising. It has a national debt of 18pc of GDP, the sixth lowest in the world, and falling.
The country has cleaned up the banking system and has a well-run floating currency that lets the economy roll with the punches.
It has a budget surplus and does not rely on foreign investors to cover government spending. It has slashed its dependency on oil state revenues. The fiscal break-even cost of a barrel of oil fell to $52 last year, down from $115 before the invasion of Crimea in 2014.
It is the paradox of Vladimir Putin’s tenure that he runs one of the most orthodox policy regimes on the planet. “The macroeconomic team at the central bank and the treasury are exemplary,” said Christpher Granville from TS Lombard.
Mr Putin’s tight ship is a striking contrast to the prodigal socio-economic systems of the West, where money rains from helicopters and fiscal dominance prevails. “He is extremely conservative and rails against the dangers of debt,” said Chris Weafer from Macro-Advisory in Moscow.
The commodity boom is adding an extra $10bn a month to Kremlin coffers from oil and gas. It is being squirrelled away in the National Wellbeing Fund.
This rainy day reserve can be tapped as needed to cover social spending: pensions, child care, fertility bonuses for families, and mortgage subsidies for first-time buyers – components of Mr Putin’s levelling-up strategy for the 2020s.
The Kremlin could sever all gas flows to Europe – 41pc of the EU’s supply – for two years or more without running into serious financial buffers.The West talks of “devastating” sanctions if Mr Putin invades Ukraine. Tuesday is the turn of German Chancellor Olaf Scholz to repeat the warnings in Moscow, meekly in his case. There is theatre to this ritual, at best wishful thinking, at times masking economic self-interest.
The harsher truth was summed up by Russia’s ambassador to Sweden. “Excuse my language, but we couldn’t give a shit about western sanctions,” he told the Aftonbladet newspaper.
Washington says it will inflict much harsher punishment than in 2014, starting at the top of the escalation ladder. The Kremlin may already have calculated – accurately in my view – that the impact will in fact be less.
Post-Crimean sanctions coincided with a secular commodity bust, the main reason why Russian real disposable incomes were to slide by 12pc. This time they coincide with a secular commodity boom.
Russia today has a semi-autarkic economy, and its chief trade partner is China. The copious document signed by Mr Putin and Xi Jinping at the Beijing Winter Olympics – Entering a New Global Era – establishes a de facto authoritarian alliance.We should take the rhetoric with a pinch of salt. They remain two scorpions in a bottle, as amorous as Ribbentrop-Molotov lovers. But right now China has Russia’s back against the West, and this renders it impossible to enforce meaningful sanctions.
The Kremlin knows that Europe has vetoed the expulsion of Russia from the SWIFT network of international payments. “The West has to do something to save face but we expect nothing more than sanctions on two or three large Russian banks.
That would be disruptive but Russians are used to this. The only sanctions that would have any real impact is to try to kick Russia out of the global financial system altogether,” said Mr Granville.
“Obviously Russia would grow faster if it were integrated into Western supply chains but in a sense the damage has already happened since Crimea. Further measures would be more of the same,” he said.
It is clear that there will be no blockade of Russia’s energy nexus. Germany’s gas dependence is so total that Mr Scholz still cannot bring himself to state unequivocally that the Nord Stream 2 pipeline should be shelved after a full-blown invasion.
Whatever is done requires the unanimity of all 27 states and will therefore gravitate to the lowest common denominator.
“Europe can’t do without Russian energy, and it has nowhere else to turn. This is not just about gas: there are oil pipelines, as well as 2.5m barrels a day of refined products like aviation fuel and diesel,” said Macro-Advisory’s Mr Weafer.
Deliveries of liquefied natural gas, mostly from the US, have slowed the depletion rate of Europe’s gas reserves over the last month, with the help of mild weather.
But they are uncomfortably low – Austria (19pc), The Netherlands (24pc), France (28pc) – and global LNG capacity is stretched to the limits. A total Kremlin cut-off would bring Europe to its knees within weeks.
The White House thinks Mr Putin cannot achieve his $400bn investment plan to diversify the economy over the next decade without Western technology, but China can plug many gaps, and there is no chance of sustaining a hermetically sealed sanctions regime at global scale.
Mr Putin has an unrepeatable chance to smash the post-Cold War settlement and reassert Russian dominance over its near abroad. Nothing on the current menu of sanctions will alter his calculus.
If he steps back from an invasion over coming days it will be for one of two reasons. The first is that the US, Britain, and Turkey have shipped weapons to Ukraine that are sufficiently sophisticated to move the needle: anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles, and drones.Nato’s Eastern European states have held firm. The US and the UK have mobilised their cyberwarfare capability on behalf of the alliance. Washington has made it clear that it will support a guerrilla insurgency to raise the tariff of military occupation.
Mr Putin has to weigh the risk that Ukraine's battle-hardened reservists might put up stiffer resistance than expected and that a lightning strike on Kyiv might prove harder than it looks.
Almost nothing that core Europe is now doing has any bearing on this. The EU failed to heed the lesson of Russia’s seizure of Georgian territory in 2008. It continued disarming even as Russia armed further. It spent a decade obsessing over institutional architecture, and then trying to save monetary union from its own contradictions.
It lost sight of the greater strategic imperative during the European debt crisis, when states slashed spending on modern weaponry to meet arbitrary and pro-cyclical austerity targets. These were enormous errors of statecraft.
The other reason why Mr Putin may desist is if Germany and France have promised behind closed doors to give him what he wants without a war: Ukraine on a platter, stripped of sovereignty and locked into Moscow’s strategic orbit. To call it Finlandisation is a euphemism. It is closer to Russification.
We will find out soon enough what has been going on in these private sessions but it was revealing to see the ashen face and involuntary wince of Ukraine’s Volodymyr Zelensky as the German Chancellor spoke in Kyiv.
Mr Scholz did indeed seem to be pulling the rug from underneath his feet, deflating Ukraine’s hope of genuine independence with the soft-spoken words and careful precision of an employment lawyer, the Chancellor’s former job.
Markets are implicitly betting that a Western sell-out on Mr Putin’s terms is the likely outcome, and that Ukraine will be pressured into "voluntary" realignment – like the Czechs in 1938 – allowing business to continue as usual.Utter cynicism is usually the safest bet.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/02/15/putin-close-winning-ukraine/ >>506696Its good to know my fucking money is used to finance Nazi weaponry. Brilliant.
I hope Putin rolls into Kiev ASAP
>>750658I meant the part where you clearly have orders to defend and are running drills, while the West is yelling about how you're about to invade.
>>506737That doesn't work, because Russia has conscription.
>>506741 As you can see, with current political developments the creation of a Jewish state in Southern Ukraine has become a reality. Southern Ukraine was always considered a second homeland for Jews and most cities in Southern Ukraine were founded and settled by Jews and were centers of Judaism for thousands of years, “Russians” only acquired this territory in the 19th Century while the Khazarian empire existed there for centuries and Jews have been living there to this day. This way Russia doesn’t get this territory and it doesn’t fall to the control of the Fascist Ukronationalists.
As you can see from the map control of this territory currently dubbed “Heavenly Jerusalem” will allow Israel to control the entire Mediterranean basin and the straits of the Black Sea. Furthermore, any attack on Israel form the Middle East will be met with retaliatory nuclear strikes from Heavenly Jerusalem but not from Israel. As a result if they choose to retaliate they would have to fire back into Southern Ukraine and will get shot down by Russian AA systems in Crimea (they can’t tell if the nukes are gonna land in Crimea or elsewhere lol)
>>506731>Are you saying Hitler and Mussolini was right?Hitler could be a socialist realism artist instead of Fuhrer if only German Revolution happened & Lenin helped Rosa & Karl Liebknecht.
While Mussolini was a depressed Marxist. Of course they got what they fuckin' deserve. But we need to know that if we don't exploit the so called "Inter-imperialist war" then there'll be no revolution anymore.
>>506734I love how Israel can do whatever they want. Genocide palestine and the west doesn't care, bombing assad and Putin doesn't care, allying with china/russia and the US doesn't care.
Their only enemy is Iran and only because a crazy clergy is in power there.
>>506746*Canadian
Forgot it was a separate country for a moment
>>506759 (me)
At the same time, this would close of the mediterranean, so no easy exports towards america through it, gotta go through Africa or the pacific ocean..
>>506751You know what you said
>I love how Israel can do whatever they want.Also see
>>506755 >>506755Iran and Israel were allies pre-revolution and even later as Israel supported them against Iraq. They have 0 opposed geopolitical goals, it's ideological.
After the Mullahs lose power because of puc rel, they will return to being allied.
>>506757>Europe will never be indepenant from America unless it actually increases arms spending.Militarism is stupid, China has gained the ability to defy American influence by maxing it's industrial power, and doing military as an afterthought.
>>506759that's true but it's also vulnerable to naval power, something less radical than damming off an entire ocean, would be under water ocean current turbines substituted with nuclear power.
>>506787The war of 1973 is the best examble. They panicked when egypt seemed to make progress and sended aid to Israel, when the battle turned before the aid even arrived they teamed up with the soviets to pressure Israel into making peace early.
They don't want anyone to dominate the ME.
Meanwhile, our lad Bolsonaro is in Moscow to buy some fertilizers.
> The visit by Bolsonaro, who will meet with Putin Wednesday, is part of an attempt to improve trade with a strategic partner. The Brazilian government says it is seeking to ease restrictions imposed by the Kremlin on exports of products that the Latin American agricultural powerhouse desperately needs: 85% of all fertilizers used in Brazil are imported, and 22% of them come from Russia.
> Bolsonaro, who seeks re-election in October, has an interest in avoiding higher food costs that have helped to send inflation above 10% a year in Brazil. Rising prices coupled with an economic recession and his handling of the pandemic are all dragging on his popularity, with the latest opinion polls showing him losing the race to former President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva.
> “After throwing Brazil into unprecedented global isolation, Bolsonaro is trying to change such perception before the election because he knows he’ll be criticized for that during the campaign,” said Casaroes, who’s also a professor at the Getulio Vargas Foundation, an independent think-tank. “Bolsonaro is seen as a toxic leader by many countries.https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/bolsonaro-is-set-to-meet-with-putin-and-ukraine-isn-t-on-agenda-1.1723875>>506792>Israel was not nearly as powerful until after the post-Holocaust migration had ended, which was still happening during the coup. Israel was not yet a force able to destroy the Egyptians and Palestinians so easily.Okay right, besides palestinians, they didn't have military forced since their militias were beaten in 1947. But that doesn't matter, it's a fact that pre-coup Iran had good relations with Israel and recognized them.
>It's a very strange opinion that Iran and Israel would actually be great friends except for the Islamic Republic.I don't think so, they just don't have anything to fight over but have natural enemies in common, they are natural allies.
>You can't separate out the history of Western imperialism from the creation of these governments and sentiments.I don't think you know what you talking about, Israel was not founded by the west they kicked out the anglos, they have more in common with afrikaners, a strange mix of anti-colonialism, racial nationalism and supramisism over the more native population which reenforces itself, something unique completely seperate from imperialism, here it is even more muddied as most israeli jews are or have atleast one parent of jews that left the other MENA regions after 1947.
>>506800>Israel would not have succeeded without the Balfour declaration.And the USA wouldn't exist if Caesar drowned in the nile. Your point?
>Gaining autonomy from BritainYou are completely clueless
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine>does not change their long history of dependence on Western countries ( + USSR.)What is even your argument? I genuinely have no idea.
>Iran's entire Islamic Republic is a reaction to Westerners installing the Shah No it is a reaction to the mismanagement and corruption under his regime.
>and supporting Shia clergy to promote the ousting of the secular Mossadegh. Ehh what? They wanted shia theocracy because they hate that they used shi'ism…?
>Then that same clergy turned on their CIA handlers. It's you who doesn't know anythingNo, the clergy used the general discontent of the population to mobilize a revolution.
>>506804>And the USA wouldn't exist if Caesar drowned in the nile. Your point?That the history of these countries is inseparable from Western intervention
>You are completely cluelessPissrael fought back against the British after having been allies in wars and gained independence from them. They were not gifted it, that is not what I meant. But this does not mean that Israel was some strong independent movement who don't need no imperialist backers (who Iran obviously hate after the Shah regime). Again, the history of Israel is tied tightly to the history of greater powers.
>No it is a reaction to the mismanagement and corruption under his regime. You sound like a zionist shill at this point. Mossadegh was doing well and was democratically elected so it is the same thing. Iranians are not so stupid as to not know why he lost power.
>Ehh what? They wanted shia theocracy because they hate that they used shi'ism…?No, they funded all opposition to Mossadegh, some were the clerics, and eventually those people took power. I say that to draw a direct line from Western intervention to current Iranian government.
>No, the clergy used the general discontent of the population to mobilize a revolution.That doesn't contradict what I said. The CIA just didn't think the Shah would ever lose power. But he was secular too though, they were stupid.
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/iran/2018-03-07/new-findings-clerical-involvement-1953-coup-iran >>506809>That the history of these countries is inseparable from Western interventionThat statement applies to the entire world, you are not saying anything.
>Pissrael fought back against the British after having been allies in wars and gained independence from them. Israel didn't exist then, don't be stupid, the jewish leadership openly stated that they do not accept the 1939 white paper, the more moderate zionist resisted non-violently but zionist orgs like Irgun fought the anglos the entire time.
>They were not gifted it, that is not what I meant. But this does not mean that Israel was some strong independent movement who don't need no imperialist backersThey didn't tho, the jewish militias were superior to the arab ones, and the arab nations (who were gifted independence) were not fighting seriously anyway. And I wouldn't call their actuall early backers, poland and chechoslovakia, imperialist nations.
>Again, the history of Israel is tied tightly to the history of greater powers.See my first point.
>You sound like a zionist shill at this point. Mossadegh was doing wellI was talking about the shah…
>I say that to draw a direct line from Western intervention to current Iranian government. Why should this matter to iranian-israeli relations? Israel was neither allied with britain nor the US when the coup happened, they had good relations with iran from the start.
LUGANSK, February 17 - RIA Novosti. On Thursday morning, Ukrainian security forces fired on the territory of the self-proclaimed Luhansk People's Republic four times, including from mortars prohibited by the Minsk agreements, and then opened fire on another settlement, the LPR representative office at the Joint Center for Control and Coordination of the Ceasefire Regime (JCCC) told reporters ).
According to him, from 5:30 a.m. Moscow time, the Ukrainian security forces shelled the settlements of Sokolniki, Zolote-5, Veselenkoe and Nizhnee Lozovoe, controlled by the republic, using 120 and 82 mm mortars, grenade launchers and heavy machine guns.
https://ria.ru/20220217/ogon-1773243510.html?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop>>506810>That statement applies to the entire world,So do you admit that competing for influence with the West who couped your leader for oil is not just 'ideological'?
>Israel didn't exist then, don't be stupid,Israel, Zionist settlers, whatever
>They didn't tho, the jewish militias were superior to the arab ones, and the arab nations (who were gifted independence) were not fighting seriously anyway. And I wouldn't call their actuall early backers, poland and chechoslovakia, imperialist nations.Ah yes, Israel could have remained as tiny loosely connected settlements that never gained real power, then Iran would never have found a problem with them, is that really your point?
>I was talking about the shah…I know that. The mismanagement of the Shah's regime
was western intervention, they were the same thing. Mossadegh was a good leader and the Iranians learned what happened to him and they responded, and the clergy took advantage of this response
>Why should this matter to iranian-israeli relations? Israel was neither allied with britain nor the US when the coup happened, they had good relations with iran from the start.Iran's current government is blowback against the West (which now includes Israel), which is not just an ideological opposition, because of the natural resources and geographic location Iran has which America would still like access to
It’s hard to get any real analysis on this crisis. Everything is being portrayed in meme terms. Nations vs nations. “Geopolitics”
Sounds like a bunch of shit. What real contradictions are there between the Western capitalist class and Putin and the Russian Oligarchs? Gas to Europe? Even if all American LNG went to Europe American LNG capacity can’t substitute Russian gas even if it really wanted to and most US LNG exports go to Asia because of muh free market. Maybe US politicians would like the LNG to go to Europe but the actual corporations are shipping to Asia because it pays more. German capitalists have conflicting interests with US politicians and state department. For the latter it’s about prestige and “strategic interests” for the former it’s about profit. It remains a question weather they will even shutdown the pipeline if Russia invades. The German chancellor didn’t even answer that question.
Why would the Kremlin and it’s Oligarchs want to invade Ukraine? Ukraine has 5 oligarchs that pretty much own the entire country. The Kremlin on several occasions has struck deals with each of them. For the Kremlin they are probably easy to negotiate with. All have interests in both Russia and the West. All the fascist meme groups answer to them and each have their own fascist meme force. If they stopped paying them there would be no more fascist meme forces. The Ukrainian Oligarchy does not want to submit fully to the Kremlin. It doesn’t want to submit fully to the West either. If Ukraine gets swallowed by Western Capital if the likes of Soros and others buy everything then the Ukrainian Oligarchy is fucked. They want to remain “independent”. That’s why some of them sometimes come up with shit like this:
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/11/13/ukrainian-tycoon-kolomoiskys-change-of-heart-over-russia-in-quotes-a68157Russia even remains Ukraine’s main trading partner Ukranian exports grew by 15% to Russia in 2021 compared to 2020. However, the Oligarchs always backed the Euromaidan because they didn’t want to be swallowed up by Russia and it’s Oligarchs. And it’s been 7 years and despite everything Ukraine remains completely and utterly corrupt because the Oligarchy doesn’t want any “Western liberal reforms” either. They want to remain in power but are stuck between Russian and Western capital. It’s a question of who cucks who and when. Russia or the West. If Western capital cucks the Ukrainian Oligarchs or if Russian oligarchs cuck them. Ukrainian Oligarchs will be switching allegiance based on who is in danger of cucking them. What will probably happen tho is that Russia and the West will just divide them up. That will look all geopolitical and shit.
https://youtu.be/HfQEOVBXhK4Ukraine rebels accuse government forces of
mortar attacks
>>506815We all need some emotion anon.
Sadly Putin is a massive cuck as you said.
>>506841 (me)
Btw these satanic trips are dedicated to based Lukashenko being based.
BATINA BATINA BATINA BATINA BATINA BATINA BATINA BATINA BATINA BATINA BATINA BATINA BATINA BATINA BATINA BATINA BATINA BATINA BATINA >>506849 (me)
These dubs are also dedicated to Lukashenko btw.
>>506864don't be daft
there's no draft
>>506863>And then what? Move them further away from the border? By that you just lose ground to the enemy and let them advance.You stupid ass can't into subtext. When I said "evacuated" I meant the civilian population, not the military. What's the good of having the civilians so close to the border of an active conflict?
Of course Ukraine would mantain somewhat of a military force in there, what I'm saying is that them (luhansk) shelling at empty schools (which, I mean, why specifically a school) isn't that important, so why is Ukraine reacting so strongly to it?
Like, it's not like you're shelling children, the children left years ago, fuck, those children are on highschool or might even be working now.
So, that's what I'm saying is that, if Ukraine didn't evacuate the civilians, then Ukraine knows very well what it was doing, putting civilians on shelling distance is irresponsible. If they evacuated the people, then Ukraine crying cause they shell buildings with no people in them is stupid.
>Clearly it's not about reclaiming the people (90%+ Russians) for Ukraine, just the clay.When did I claim the contrary? Regardless, even if their interest is only the clay, having a civilian population so close to the battle frontier is bad PR in of itself.
>>506862t. ameriuygha that's never been in an actual war
no, serving in the military doesn't count, amerisharts don't know what it's like to actually have your cities on the frontline
sarajevochads are laughing at you
>>506869We're talking about the ukrainian side, the side that actually has an organized army of sorts. Recruits are not civilians. Also gotta add the polish mercenaries and ultra right-wing mercenaries as well, those aren't civilians.
>>506868The frontlines have been frozen for pretty much 8 years, there has been enough time to evacuate the local population from the ukrainian side. It's not like, the enemy has been advancing rapidly and we cannot evacuate enough people, it's that the frontlines have been at a literal stalemate for years.
>>506845They are burning the dead Ukranians at the embassy after they worked them to death. It's Holodomor 2.0. The russians are nazis and the ukranians the jews.
If you are a supposed leftist you can not support Russia. Only the civilized world (US&EU) can defeat the barbarians (Russia, Belarus, China, etc.) now.
>>506877We had worse days on that frontline anon, with up to 100 violations in a single day,
The fact they're shelling with 122mm artillery is relevant though.
If they bring out the 152mm that could signal escalation.
>>506881>>506882What? I haven't seen it, but it can't be that bad, right?
right?
>>506886They can, but strictly speaking they cannot be admitted due to having ongoing territorial disputes, the absence of which is a prerequisite for joining NATO.
Still Georgians publicly stating this signals a jump in tensions.
>>506889Us is out for blood that's for sure.
Remains to see if they'll go full Dr.Strangelove or if sanity and diplomacy will prevail.
I'm still of the latter opinion but there are some (minor, for now) unsettling signs.
>>506883Watch it in 2x. Voosh can only wish he could be this detached and this western chauvinist.
>>506889The habbening is the tension itself. The US is not about to just let this flop after so much hype. And nordstream 2 is still not approved.
>>506893No not for now.
>>506894Yep
>>506896I'm a liberal and here are the abstract principles the world should conform to:
>the MoP must remain in private hands>China bad>something about abortionWith these implemented a thousand years of prosperity and peace will reign on Earth and I will be crowned Emperor Adam I.
‘
Russia must be destroyed’ – Ukraine envoyThe remark was made in a social media post and then deleted by a Ukrainian consul in Montenegro
https://www.rt.com/russia/549699-ukraine-russia-destroyed-hashtag/>>506925Will there be any livestream about this?
It might be time to activate Cytube again.
>>506906No, but I will.
*click*
>>506947Johnson is just a fucking retard and accidentally said it was a Russian false flag to make Ukrainians look bad. The kindergarten is in the Ukrop territory, near Luhansk, and they are blaming the LPR.
The reason it's notable is because he is a bongbrained retard and it suggests he got his notes mixed up and has said it's a false flag, when it's supposed to be a TRUE and HONEST warcrime by evil Putinbot Russians.
>>506946https://ria.ru/20220217/posol-1773369117.htmlMOSCOW, 17 Feb - RIA Novosti. Russia has expelled U.S. Deputy Ambassador to Moscow Bart Gorman, diplomatic mission spokesman Jason Rebholz told RIA Novosti.
"Russia has expelled U.S. Deputy Chief of Mission (DCM) in Russia Bart Gorman. Gorman was the second most important official in the U.S. embassy in Moscow after the ambassador and a key member of the embassy's top leadership," he said.
Rebholz told the agency that Gorman had a valid visa and had been in Russia for less than three years.
Washington considers the diplomat's expulsion an "escalatory step" and is considering possible retaliatory measures, the RIA Novosti interlocutor added.
Relations between Russia and the West have become even more strained in recent months, with the situation around Ukraine worsening. Washington and Brussels accuse Moscow of preparing for an "invasion," claiming that Russian troops are being brought to the border with the neighboring state. Against this background, the North Atlantic Alliance is increasing its presence in Eastern Europe by sending additional forces and troops.
The Kremlin denies these accusations, claiming that they are a pretext to reinforce the bloc's military presence near Russia's borders. It also explained that the main reason for the escalation was the actions of the United States and NATO, which were "pumping" Ukraine with weapons, thus pushing it toward military adventures.
https://twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1494309689475178496?cxt=HHwWgIC9mdqv7bwpAAAA >Russian foreign Ministry comments on response: it is inappropriate to demand to withdraw troops from certain regions of Russia. Russia demands Ukraine implements Minsk agreements, the West should stop weapons delivery to Ukraine, withdraw what was delivered already, recall all instructors and advisors from Ukraine, prohibition of NATO joint exercises with Ukraine. Russia demands all U.S. troops and weapons withdrawal from Central and Eastern Europe, Baltic countries. Russia expects proposals on non-expansion of NATO. Russia highlights that questions on arms control cannot be considered separately from other points
So, these are the points for descalation:
1:Ukraine implements Minsk agreement.
2:The weapons deliveries towards Ukraine from NATO need to stop.
3:Withdraw what was already delivered to Ukraine.
4:Withdraw all NATO instructos and advisors from Ukraine.
5:Prohibit the cooperation of Ukraine in NATO joint exercises.
6:The total withdrawal of all US troops and weapons from Central and Eastern Europe (This is, Poland, The Baltic States, Slovakia, Romania, and probably even Germany and the Czech Republic
Do you think the US NATO will accept these 6 points?
>>506961He is asking for the US to literally withdraw from Eastern Europe.
What's so wrong with it?
>>506971Into irrelevance and starvation like in the 90s.
That's the American liberal wet dream. That China submit to being cucked by the west like in the 1860s, and that Russia submit and starve like in the 90s. Then they can fucking live it up and go to brunch.
>>506995>>506986Another nothing burger
It is more likely for the USA to invade russia, than it is for Russia to invade Ukraine.
Stop believing US media, the "invasion" was about to happen "tommorow" for the last 2 months, it is not going to happen.
>>5069802.
If something will happen, it will be NATO aggression.
Top Ukrainian official slams Western mediaUkraine is losing billions from Western “hysteria,” a leading Zelensky ally claims
“I think that in two or three weeks, when this phase vanishes, we should do a retrospective analysis of how giant, extremely well-known media outlets began spreading information worse than [Olga] Skabeyeva and [Vladimir] Solovyov,” Arakhamia said, referring to two Russian TV hosts known for their support of the Kremlin, whose shows are prohibited from being broadcast in Ukraine on the grounds that they spread disinformation.
“Blatant fakes in CNN, Bloomberg, the WSJ… we should study this, because these are elements of a hybrid war,” the politician went on.
The politician claimed that Ukraine has become a platform for a new European security agreement, but said that the publication of allegations about an incoming Russian invasion is costing the country “two to three billion dollars every month.”“We can’t borrow in foreign markets because we have simply insane rates,” he explained. “Many exporters are turning us down. We consider every day to be a loss for the economy, and then we share this information with our partners through the Foreign Ministry, because they must understand it. When somebody decides to move their embassy to Lviv, they should understand, that this sort of news costs the Ukrainian economy several hundred million dollars.”
https://www.rt.com/russia/549596-ukraine-losing-billions-western-hysteria/ Unique IPs: 140