Let's mantain the civil discussion we were having in the last thread.
Last thread got full.
FULL SIZZLEGANG FOR THE WIN
>Russian foreign Ministry comments on response: it is inappropriate to demand to withdraw troops from certain regions of Russia. Russia demands Ukraine implements Minsk agreements, the West should stop weapons delivery to Ukraine, withdraw what was delivered already, recall all instructors and advisors from Ukraine, prohibition of NATO joint exercises with Ukraine. Russia demands all U.S. troops and weapons withdrawal from Central and Eastern Europe, Baltic countries. Russia expects proposals on non-expansion of NATO. Russia highlights that questions on arms control cannot be considered separately from other points
So, these are the points for descalation:
1:Ukraine implements Minsk agreement.
2:The weapons deliveries towards Ukraine from NATO need to stop.
3:Withdraw what was already delivered to Ukraine.
4:Withdraw all NATO instructos and advisors from Ukraine.
5:Prohibit the cooperation of Ukraine in NATO joint exercises.
6:The total withdrawal of all US troops and weapons from Central and Eastern Europe (This is, Poland, The Baltic States, Slovakia, Romania, and probably even Germany and the Czech Republic
Do you think the US NATO will accept these 6 points?
I'm gonna post my opinion about the russian matter in here as well, it's my post, you can't do nothing about it:
Russia has tried to join NATO, twice.
No real reason for NATO to actually not accept, you would literally have world domination, aside from China.
This is because of a very simple reason, NATO wants to balkanize Russia. The very existence of Russia is a menace to NATO, and I don't mean this because they're "scared" of russian people, but how much territory they occupy.
Russia is the major country that will get a benefit from climate change, it's a country with a lot of natural resources because it literally owns about 1/8 of the planet or so.
It's the literal counterpart of the US, and the US wants it destroyes so it can truly be the world dominator without having no one to actually stand to them. Also Russia has lotsa nukes.
Not saying tho that Russia is an anti-imperialist nation, it is a capitalist nation and capitalism itself enables imperialism, it's a feature, not a dlc. But the thing is that NATO is searching for Russia is to be completely destroyed and balkanized in 5 states or more.
Also the Rimland theory is more important (at least that'd what NATO officials believe) than what you think.
So in thic conflict I support Russia for these reasons.
>Russia is actively defending itself against an outside invader that wants to mutilate it out of paranoia.
>Ukraine isn't worth a damn supporting, they have incorporated in their army neo-nazi paramilitaries.
>Ukraine is also a shithole that would be better under russian control… Probably (not that hard of a test tbh, being better than a comprador regime for NATO isn't that hard).
>More power to Russia means less power to the US, which will make it more aggressive. Supporting Russia is literally accelerationism to ww3, but accelerationism nonetheless, and no, I don't want ww3, I don't like to happen, but one thing is to not like war and the other is to delude oneself into believing that it will not happen, it will happen because it's the natural course of capitalism. This is more asking for a swift death than a prolonged, painful suffering under late stage capitalism.
>Seriously, fuck the Ukrainian goverment.
>In fact, fuck ALL nato states, including mine.
Despite this, I recognize that:
>Russia is a capitalist country. Thus means that it is imperialist because imperialism is the capitalist drive for profit natural course of action, read imperialism, the last stage of capitalism. Every capitalist country will become either imperialist, or imperialized, and Russia clearly isn't being imperialized as, say, Togo is.
>Russia is ruled by a capitalist class, the same class that killed the Soviet Union and thus killed AES.
>The russian state is actively smearing the soviet union, by example making the gulag archipelago a required reading in schools, meanwhile putting into a shrine a fake version of Stalin, deluding themselves into thinking he was a fascistic strong dictator instead of the antithesis of fascism which is why russian rightwingers love to say that they liked Stalin but hate Lenin, despite the former being literally a disciple and rightful succesor to Lenin's theories and politics.
Btw this also applies to China.
>>507042I hereby dub this "the kindergarden war".
I called it first so now everybody has to call it that.
>>507049A very big false flag by the Us that would push it all to the brink.
I'm saying this because for now we don't know what are Russia's next moves but we do know that:
1) Us is out for blood
2) Russia has NO intention to invade
>>507049level 3 is unilateral russian invasion of donbas.
level 2 is nato involvement and ground war.
level 1 is nuclear exchange.
>>507051Fair
>>507052Imo, that would leapfrog it to a 2
>>507053Fair
>>507059Have you ever seen an invasion preceded by months of nothing?
NATO has given tons upon tons of weaponry to Ukraine in the meanwhile, so what would for Russians the point of giving their opponent all this time?
>>507071>They don't "want" to invade,Post of FSLNanon:
>>2) Russia has NO intention to invadeyour post:
>They send the opposite message by massing troops and building logistical infrastructure to support an invasion. So no we don't know that, unless you work at the Kremlin and are private to some information the rest of the world doesn't have.
>dilate. >>507073Of course, Russia should let itself become encircled because they should simply trust NATO. Something that US/NATO would never accept and has broken its trustworthiness many times over for that exact reason
>Please learn geopolitics 101 before doing reddit snarky remarks.Lol the irony
>>507077Annex Crimea/support war in Donbass out of legitimate security concerns that NATO isn't listening to?
>>507078You literally said that Russia should know that it because it has nukes, that it could not have legitimate security concerns. Idiotic, naive, childish, go back to reddit.
>>507102Starting to think Ukraine and Russia are taking the possibility of war a lot more seriously than US does.
But fucking around with Russia's security just to kill a pipeline to your puppet is exactly the sort of short-sighted play that US would make, and would lead to full scale disaster.
>>507113He's literally a figurehead puppet of the oligarch establishment and NATO.
Like Macron, his gay party doesn't even have any concrete positions. He's the Ukrainian Buttigieg.
>>507135It's very much possible, gonna download these.
>>507128The record is around 100 iirc, so 45 isn't that much.
>>507065This
>>507072Why do you call him a "Class Traitor" for being an Anti-Revisionist Marxist-Leninist (he is a Hoxhaist while I am a Maoist) and refusing to take sides in Inter-Imperialist conflicts and be a Bootlicker for Dengist China and Putinist Russia?
>>507145"The height of dragon energy"
t.Haz
(Probs still coping)
>>507172t h i s
the nothingburgerers won't rest until a nuke is launched
>>507170yes, but you never know which one will be the one
before ww1 you had 2 or 3 morrocan crises, the crisis regarding the building of the baghdad railroad, ruso-japanese war, annexation of bosnia etc. etc.;
The world economy will pay a heavy price if the West imposes new sanctions on Moscow, the US Treasury warnsIf Russia launches an invasion of Ukraine, the global economy will suffer an inevitable fallout as a result of newly unleashed Western sanctions on Moscow, the US Treasury secretary warned on Wednesday.
Speaking to French news agency AFP, Janet Yellen explained that the US and its European allies are preparing a “very substantial package of sanctions that will have severe consequences for the Russian economy.”
However, despite Washington wanting the highest cost to fall on Moscow, she admitted that there would be “some global fallout” from the measures.
The primary concern of Washington and Brussels is the potential impact of economic sanctions on the global energy market. As a major exporter of energy, Moscow supplies around 40% of the gas used by EU countries. The bloc’s energy security could be in danger if Moscow were to cut off its gas pipelines in retaliation for economic sanctions, some have claimed. And even if Russia doesn’t limit its supply, energy prices could still rise even further in the event of a large-scale conflict in Europe.
https://www.rt.com/russia/549679-us-warns-global-fallout/ Ukraine reveals new gun planAllowing people in Ukraine to legally own handguns would greatly improve national security against outside “aggressors,” Ukraine’s Defense Minister Aleksey Reznikov told news agency RBK Ukraine on Thursday. The move would “increase citizens’ personal security, help law enforcement and certainly reduce crime rates,” the minister claims.
Reznikov said on Thursday he has been a “longtime gun-rights supporter”, adding that “as a lawyer” he believes a gun law is long overdue in Ukraine. In late 2021, the local UNIAN news agency published a piece calling Ukraine “virtually the only nation in Europe lacking a gun law.”
The defense minister has advocated the idea of people “getting a right to … carry handguns” and pointed to the experience of “many other nations.” Reznikov also argued that it would help Ukraine prevent a potential aggression.
https://www.rt.com/russia/549759-ukraine-guns-legalize-defense-minister/
>school shootings incoming in Ukraine >>507177Ah yes let's flood a country poor as fuck with NATO guns and let's distribute them around to everyone.
Mexico tier violence in 3 2 1
>>507180it's fucking insane
they are fucking up their own country right before our eyes
>>507183If you read this link to the 2001 Ukrainian census results
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Census_(2001)#National_structure you will see that Crimea is majority ethnic Russian, while the Donbass is majority ethnic Ukrainian. I don't know what you are trying to insinuate, LOL.
>>507193>Donbass is majority ethnic UkrainianThe whole region is ~60/40 Ukranian/Russian but the major population centers are all >70% Russian and even including rural regions they vote more against Kiev.
I think that there are a lot of ethnic Ukrainians in the east that are aligned with Russia/Russian interests because the oligarchs are trying to sell them for a cheap profit.
How does the principle of self determination deal with the majority funding death squads to and purge Russians and their minority Ukrainian allies "collaborators" as traitors?
>>507186I'm
>>507172, I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I don't think there will be a war (at least not a full on war) and I really hope I am right.
What I'm saying is that the happening is precisely this, US escalating the situation, backing Germany into a corner, flooding Ukraine with guns. I disagree that this is the same as before. I think this time it is unique, and I say so because of how much money and political stake has gone into it.
I don't really get what the US plans. Because I don't believe they want war (at least not full on war), and this amount of clownery for Nordstream 2 seems entirely overboard. What is the outcome of this escalation? I don't get it.
Those saying that the US is merely doing a show of power, I think it's a bad analysis. There are other forces at play here. Russia has become a great ally of China, and they will continue to grow their ties and trade (especially hydrocarbons) these coming years.
I tend to side with the analysis of the folks over at Ahí les Va. This bullshit is a way to destabilize Russia (politically, economically, etc), with the long term goal of installing a government that does the US's bidding. Plus, I also think they want to completely capture the ruling class of Ukraine for strategic purposes. I am guessing that this bullshit includes a campaign they have going on where they are actively lubing the p/bussy of those oligarchs, brainwashing them with sweet promises and sweetheart deals. I think that the calls for evacuations we learned about in the past few days had something to do with this. "Let us get you to safety Mr. Porky. We'll give you a nice suite in New York for the time being. Also, we wanted to talk to you about …"
That's my take, but I'm in the dark mostly. It's incredibly opaque and the amount of fake news is insane. I also don't have any idea what the Russian government is doing right now, it's internal politics, it's stated interest in Ukraine, etc. This is mostly about the US escalating tensions for no fucking reason.
So no, I don't want war, and I expect and hope it won't happen. That doesn't mean that many people won't die, many surely will.
>>507190I like how the second map is from the Ukranian wikipedia page on the Russian language while pic related is from the Russian wikipedia page on the Russian language. Anyway I suspet the second image is bullshit. Most of Ukraine speaks Russian. Even Zelensky and Poroshenko are native Russian speakers.
From the Russian wikipedia page:
The efforts of the Ukrainian government brought little tangible short-term results, so that the actual spread of the Russian language in Ukraine during the first 10-15 years of its independence, according to some sources, did not decrease, and according to others, even increased. For example, in 1989 in Ukraine, 80% of the total number of books sold were books in Russian[43], and in 2004, excluding textbooks, this figure was 95%[19]. The holdings of Ukrainian libraries consisted of 60% Russian-language literature[47]. In those regions of Ukraine where Russification has practically approached 100%, there has been practically no recovery of the Ukrainian environment. For example, in the Donetsk region, where the last Ukrainian school was closed in 1989[43], in 2003 only 4% of students were taught in Ukrainian[19] and 96% in Russian. Only 2% of films released in Ukraine in 2004 were in Ukrainian[19]. On the other hand, in the field of education, there were trends towards a reduction in instruction in Russian. For example, the number of kindergartens with Russian as the language of instruction decreased by 2001 to 22%, the number of schools to 29%, and the number of students studying in Russian to 22%[48]. See also Narrowing the scope of the functioning of the Russian language.
In 2004, in connection with the change of presidential power, talks about making the Ukrainian language more widespread in all spheres of Ukrainian life intensified. But things did not go further than talks and demonstration actions.
A significant part of the population (up to 30%), who consider Ukrainian as their native language, preferred to use Russian. Some researchers, analyzing these data, came to the conclusion that sufficient conditions were not created in Ukraine for the normal functioning of the Ukrainian language, and therefore a significant number of people with their native Ukrainian language were in an environment where they could not use it effectively[19].
According to a number of observers, the results of the 2001 census indicated that the Russian-speaking citizens of Ukraine are the largest language community in Europe, whose language is not recognized as a state or official language[49], and represent the largest Russian-speaking community outside the Russian Federation[50]. According to some researchers, “survey results indicate that Ukraine is actually a bilingual country” (for example, a study by the Institute of Sociology of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine (IS NASU)[51])
>>507202>There are some major things happening, like Germany (and maybe France?) potentially having a big rift with the rest of NATO due to crucial energy concerns. You don't have a good grasp of time. This was already written or what's the saying? The writing was on the wall. Germany has been becoming an independent power bloc for 10 years now, especially in these past 5 years. This tiny NATO thing is a normal song and dance and Germany and what not was already on that long road. History doesn't happen in one event overnight. This is the problems with zoomers that think every little event means a massive historical event. History moves slowly, true happenings happen over decades and centuries, wars are only a culmination of many many happenings.
Engels predicted WW1 because as early as 1890, everyone could see the rush to modernize and militarize. He saw it coming because it was something happening over years and years of social/economic/historical development.
I can tell you this based on history. We are not moving towards some endogenous crisis like a global war. The problems today are climate crisis and economic financial bubbles which cause bigger problems domestically than globally. Alot of problems today are internalized like even refugees and immigration. If there is anything we are moving towards it's civil crisis, maybe balkanization or civil wars or open execution of immigrants and refugees at borders which is happening.
>>507243LPR/DPR won't get taken, but Russia won't invade anyways. Donbass will be a long conflict and Ukraine can't join NATO for as long as there is territorial dispute, so they truly don't need to invade. Unless they are waiting for a provocation/false flag to do so.
>>507242Top lol
>>507254Right away Agent Mykhail
>>507253We will know if that's happening when it happens. It would take some time to move all of the Russian separatists out of their entrenched positions. It will take even longer for Ukraine to join NATO. (Troops could still arrive though.) NATO just wants to sanction the pipeline away, not actually go to war over Ukraine.
>>507220Free Ruthenia
Lwow is Polack clay
>>507177Volkstrumm and maybe werewolves / forest brothers moment.
>>507207Glutting the country with guns to lead to general disorder and to arm NATO stay-behinds in the event of the coming to power of a pro-russian government.
+
As you said effectively pressing gluts of people not fit for military service to fight the Russian military. which will almost certainly lead to massive casualties on the Ukrainian side but will make excellent RFE propaganda.
>>507037Reminder that under every definition, including the Lenin-Hilferding definition of monopoly finance capital, Russia is an imperialist state. Is acting aggressively toward a neutral and sovereign nation and threatening it with war. There is no moral difference between what Russia is doing to Ukraine and what the U.S has done throughout the 20th century to Cuba.
If you support Russia in their imperialistic Muscovite ambitions you are not a socialist, communist or Marxist, and instead a pro-capitalist imperialist apologist.
That is all.
>>507302I think that Russia is sending them misinfo and they cannot stop bleating it
>>507305>everyone is a fascist and I hope they all fall into a black holego away radlib
>>507329cope ukranoid, bull Putin is coming for you.
>>507331did not knew Russia had annexed Ukraine back already, thanks anon.
>>507339what do you mean by that
>>507341>Ukraine is anti-imperialist and closer to true anarchist values. Critical support for Ukrayina!so that's why so many neocons these days call themselves Anarchists these days huh, poor anarchism, suffered a horrible fate.
>>507352Trots are Leninists.
>The fact that you can't see the threat that the Warsaw Pact poses to other countries (including Cuba) and what it takes to fight back means you just want everyone to link arms and sing Kumbaya. If you oppose U.S intervention in Cuba you by necessity must oppose Russian intervention in Ukraine; Ukrainians mostly don't want them there, a part from the far eastern part of the country that's already been more or less annexed by Russia anyway.
Russia isn't communist. It isn't socialist. It's a capitalist oligarchy and blatantly imperialist.
>>507353Is this what porky spend his millions on? Paying people to post dumb shit in leftist spaces?
You
do get paid to post this dogshit, right?
Chairman of the "All-Russian Officers' Assembly", retired Colonel-General Leonid Ivashov spoke out against Putin's policy and preparations for war with Ukraine
The Kremlin's policy aimed at preparing a war with Ukraine is inherently criminal. Retired Russian Colonel-General Leonid Ivashov wrote about this in an open letter entitled "The Eve of the War", acting as chairman of the "All-Russian Officers' Assembly", and called on Russian President Vladimir Putin to step down from his post.
Recall that from 1996 to 2001 Ivashov was the head of the Main Directorate of International Military Cooperation of the Ministry of Defense of the country, and held other high positions in the department. Today he is known in Russia as the head of the "All-Russian Officers' Assembly" - a public organization that unites reserve officers of pro-Soviet and national-patriotic views, as well as his critical speeches against NATO.
According to the general, the only threat to the existence of Russia was the degradation of its internal life, and not external threats. “In general, strategic stability is maintained, nuclear weapons are under reliable control, NATO forces are not building up, and they are not showing threatening activity,” he stressed.
Leonid Ivashov is also convinced that the Kremlin's actions will cause irreparable damage to the country and called on the president to "renounce the criminal policy of provoking war."
"The letter indicates very serious changes in the mood of various segments of the population"
Russian politician, ex-deputy of the State Duma of the Russian Federation Gennady Gudkovin a comment to the Voice of America Russian Service, he said that he was personally acquainted with Leonid Ivashov. According to the politician, it is not without reason that he is highly respected among the officers. “Of course, his views on the Kremlin’s policy at different times were quite controversial,” he added. “But the fact that he is now extremely tough, bitingly opposed to drawing Russia into the war with Ukraine, called for Putin’s resignation, pointed out that the system of power created by Putin is degrading and is the main danger to the country,” says a lot. His letter testifies to very serious changes in the moods of the most diverse segments of the population.
It becomes absolutely clear that Russian society as a whole does not want war with Ukraine, Gennady Gudkov stated. According to him, the idea of fighting on foreign territory, and even as an aggressor, is completely unacceptable to most of the country's population. “It seems to me that this is a very important, somewhat turning point,” he continued. “People are aware that the war will be extremely unfair and resolutely do not want to allow it. Therefore, for the Kremlin, this is a serious signal that should be heeded.
The ex-deputy also agrees that the tension around Ukraine is being whipped up largely in order to divert the attention of citizens from pressing internal problems. “On federal TV channels you can hear anything, except for what really worries people. Every day hatred of the outside world is planted there. Meanwhile, Putin himself is well aware that there are no prerequisites for an attack on Russia by NATO and is not expected. All these threats, which the Kremlin replicates through its media, are mythical and do not pose a real danger to the country. So Ivashov is absolutely right here too,” Gennady Gudkov summed up.
"Putin is simply uncomfortable without an enemy"
This is a significant message, says political scientist Abbas Gallyamov . It seems to him that Putin and society as a whole have become accustomed to criticism from liberals for the expansionist foreign policy of the Kremlin. “And here there is a real sensation,” the source of the Voice of America Russian Service believes. – Ivashov unexpectedly voiced, in principle, the same arguments as the liberals, although he fought against the expansion of NATO to the east back in those days when no one really knew Putin either. This is a man whose merits in the eyes of the “national patriots”, in general, do not need extra confirmation. He is known for his nationalistic views, and in certain circles he has the status of a patriarch."
Therefore, of course, this is a shock that makes everyone look at the situation in a new way, says Abbas Gallyamov. In his opinion, such a conversion from patriots to liberals, especially in the performance of a well-known person, clearly demonstrates on whose side the power is now in terms of influencing public opinion.
“Obviously, the Kremlin’s arguments are not able to make a proper impression on the general public, they are not able to convince not only opponents, but even potential allies – people who seem to walk in the same “Budennov overcoat,” he specified. “Ivashov surprisingly correctly noted that the root cause of what is happening around Ukraine is largely due to the Kremlin’s desire to shift the arrows of public consciousness from internal problems to external ones.”
Putin is simply uncomfortable without an enemy, the political scientist believes. “It is no coincidence that from the first days in power he was constantly engaged in the consolidation of society “against someone”. No wonder he exposes his internal critics as agents of some external enemy. Today, the electoral majority that he had is crumbling. Any sociology will confirm this to you. The president's rating has long been below 50%, not to mention the rating of his United Russia party. And in this situation, Putin has no choice but to try to restore the paradigm that once led him to success,” Abbas Gallyamov concluded.
https://www.golosameriki.com/a/ivashov-kremlin-challange/6431260.html>>507353>you by necessity must oppose Russian intervention in Ukraine;To a certain extent, I do, but I also don't support what the Ukraine is doing to Russians in its own borders. Firstly, ANOTHER REASON
WHY the Russians might bother crossing into the Ukraine is due to the fact that the Ukranian government has gone out of its way to commit ethnic discrimination and persecution to its Russian populace and has actively sought to destroy the two Russian "seperatist" republics that have resisted it. Due to the political nature of these two republics and them more or less being pro-Russian and resisting genocide, Russia at least has the incentive to protect them.
>Russia isn't communist. It isn't socialist. It's a capitalist oligarchy and blatantly imperialist.Agreed, that doesn't mean we should therefore "critically support" the Ukraine either. No one wants to see innocent people suffer because of their governments stupid decisions, I think most of us can agree to that, but you're a fool if you think Ukraine is worthy of support.
Same goes to you fuckin' putinoids. If you guys had an ounce of principle, you'd be more concerned with the Donetsk and Lushenk people's republics and not actively shill for Russia because they're "anti-Nato".
>inb4 I'm labelled of being pro-Nato. NATO can crash and burn. If Russia does crush NATO, I'll admit, I certainly won't be upset. All I'm saying is develop some bloody critical thinking skills. You're better than this.
>>507368The US wants to build a forward military base in Ukraine, probably with nuclear weapons, Russia is not Imperialist for stopping the US from doing this. The US overthrew the Ukrainian government, during the Maidan happening so if Ukraine is being imperialised it's from the US.
>If you guys had an ounce of principle, you'd be more concerned with the Donetsk and Lushenk people's republics and not actively shill for Russia because they're "anti-Nato".The People that live in Donetsk and Lushenk are afraid of ethnic cleansing from the Azov battalion which are ukraininan neonazis that are being propped up by the US puppet regime. These people you pretend to be speaking for want to be part of Russia and they want Russian security forces in Donetsk and Lushenk in exchange for protection. But you know better then they do right, they should take a position of neither side, and gamble that the right-wing goons massing troops and equipment near their towns are just larping.
>>507378No I am not for the Potato Duce.
I'm mainly concerned with weather Putin will invade Ukraine or not and weather there will be a war between Russia and NATO or not.
>>507380>Russia is not Imperialist for stopping the US from doing this. The US overthrew the Ukrainian government, during the Maidan happening so if Ukraine is being imperialised it's from the US.Ok, I'm not denying this. You do realise I'm responding to this anon for similar reasons you are.
>The People that live in Donetsk and Lushenk are afraid of ethnic cleansing from the Azov battalion which are ukraininan neonazis that are being propped up by the US puppet regime. These people you pretend to be speaking for want to be part of Russia and they want Russian security forces in Donetsk and Lushenk in exchange for protection.But you know better then they do right, they should take a position of neither side, and gamble that the right-wing goons massing troops and equipment near their towns are just larping.1. Mentioned the idea of Ukranian government comitting genocide, don't see how this is an own on your end.
2. That's mighty rich coming from you, considering there are those in the Donetsky and Lushenk people's republics who want full independance. The communist party of Russia is actively making a request that these two seperatist republics be recognised as their own entities.
https://meduza.io/en/news/2022/01/19/communist-party-submits-draft-resolution-to-state-duma-on-raising-issue-of-russia-recognizing-donetsk-and-luhansk-people-s-republicsSo with that in mind, learn some reading comprehension and quit being a numpty. Would you rather have extensions of Russian oligarchs or the chance for two independant states to pursue their own sovereignty and destiny- including that of the SLIGHTEST POSSIBLE CHANCE that they may become socialist republics.
>>507325The Bavarian people didn't want any part in the Prussian entry in ww1 either, but their king made them.
See how retarded your argument is? The Hungarian nobility were very happy owning huge swathes of non-Hungarian territory.
>>507412Most likely an armor piercing tank round. Others
twitter analysts have noted how the building was conveniently located at the edge of town with nothing behind it, and also that there's no way in hell the shell could have come from Russian-aligned territory as the sheer range would mean the shell would hit the roof, not clean through the side.
>>507414And another video showing the "shelling" was a single scorch mark on the ground. Which was flat, like it's a texture. No crater.
And around the hole, lies the insulation, not a single scorch mark on it.
Considering the height of the hole, I'll say they used a tank cannon to ram it.
>>507422The ukrops literally started shelling yesterday for NO FUCKING REASON, and drew the russian forces back.
They even shot up their own fucking school with an undercharged mortar shell to prove a point.
Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko says his country would be ready to host "nuclear weapons" if threatened by the West.
Lukashenko also said that Minsk could deploy "super nuclear weapons" if their "rivals and opponents" took "foolish, unreasonable steps".
Tensions between Russia – an ally of Belarus – and NATO have reached unprecedented levels over troop movements near Ukraine.
Lukashenko visited an Osipovsky nuclear weapons storage site on Thursday as part of joint Russian-Belarusian military drills.
"If necessary … we will deploy not only nuclear weapons but also super nuclear weapons – promising weapons – in order to defend our territory," Lukashenko said, according to national media.
https://www.euronews.com/2022/02/17/belarus-ready-to-host-nuclear-weapons-in-case-of-western-threat-says-lukashenkoSUPER NUCLEAR WEAPONSVladislav Surkov wrote an article about how Russia will take back it's lost territories. He's Putin's Chief ideological propagandist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladislav_Surkov
> In February 1918, a historic (and somewhat hysterical) meeting of the Central Committee of the Bolshevik Party took place. It approved the decision to conclude peace with Germany. This world, known as Brest, was previously given an additional and clearer name in the opposition press (there was one then) - obscene.
> And indeed, the world turned out to be directly offensive. Under its terms, Russia abandoned the vast territories of the Baltic States, Belarus, and Ukraine that previously belonged to it. The western border rolled back far to the east, pushing the country into the pre-Petrine, one might even say, pre-Romanov times. Nowhere is nicer.
> The humiliating “treaty” was, ironically, canceled not by Russia, but by its former (abandoned) allies. In the same year 18. After that, the Soviet Republic and further the Soviet Union gradually returned the lost lands. Apparently.
> But geopolitical processes are slow, their results do not immediately appear from under the heaps of stunning events. The collapse of Russia, which began in the 17-18 years of the last century and seemed to be stopped by the communist state at the cost of colossal sacrifices, did not actually stop. The great mighty Soviet Union turned out to be not a fortress, but something like a Chernobyl sarcophagus, inside which the reactions of division, decomposition and alienation continued.
> As a result, if we compare the modern map of the European part of our country with the map approved by the notorious Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, there will hardly be many differences. Surprisingly, the western border of today's Russia almost literally coincides with the line of limitation, to which the Bolsheviks cowardly agreed in 1918 after the presentation of the German ultimatum.
> It turns out that Russia, after many years, was again pushed back into the borders of the "obscene world." Not losing the war. Not sick of the revolution. Some ridiculous perestroika, some murky glasnost was enough to make the patchwork Soviet empire come apart at the seams. This means that a fatal vulnerability was built into the system.
> So, what is next? Definitely not silence. There is a lot of geopolitics ahead. Practical and applied. And even, perhaps, contact.
> How could it be otherwise, if it is crowded and boring, and awkward … and it is unthinkable for Russia to remain within the boundaries of an obscene world.
> We are for peace. Of course. But not for obscene. For the right one.https://echo.msk.ru/blog/statya/2980190-echo/>>507421<60 violationsNot few not many.
<152mmThis is more interesting. High caliber artillery signals high tension.
>>507207I can just imagine it now. Little old grandma takes a glock out of her purse, gets lit up by an armored column. Westoid journalist is taking photos from his hotel window across the street going "yeees, shoot her more, CNN is going to love this"
Next it'll be child soldiers.
>>507461>chlorineah, yes, the chemical attack
Assad Putin was planning against his own people
>>507459What reading is to be had on a thing that didn't happen?
>>507460Those historians are selling you numbers slightly smaller than craziest estimates. Don't recommend them to anyone.
>>507473The famine did happen, you moron. It wasn't intentional (genocide), however. Are you a fucking Russian nationalist who found himself this thread? Did you post this shit too
>>507466 ?
>>507474>The famine did happen, you moron.How many have died, you moron? On picrelated, green is USSR in 1932-33 compared to Russian Empire in 1897. Back then it was less than a million deaths, so USSR's deaths should be even smaller than that. Furthermore, it's a pic of MORTALITY, just mortality, supposedly analyzed from orthodox churches which were counting the dead in 1897 with corresponding Soviet organizations' records in the same regions in 1932-33.
Now then, do tell how many deaths have Wheatcroft and Davies arrived to?
>>507477jesus fuck
i enhanced the image
what the fuck is Noam Chomsky doing in Ukraine?
>>507475The reason why the excess mortality may have been higher in the USSR fine in 1933 is precisely because the USSR had lowered its average death rate noticeably compared to the Russian Empire.
eg. Compare situation A where the std. death rate is 40 per 1000 and rises to 55 per thousand to B where the death rate is 28 per thousand and rises to 50. The later has greater excess deaths per 1000 as defined despite there being less deaths both in normal times and during famine.
So what do we learn? Bourgeois publications manipulate the fact that people do not understand precisely what terms mean and the methodology for their calculation.
>>507516I truly fucking hate this century
The greatest material potential for socialist revolution in the past 200 years
The lowest level of consciousness as well
>>507510>we're prepared to sacrifice our slaves to achieve our interestsNo shit, what have we learned from the past two years of hellish world plague? Revolution needs to fucking come soon or those retards deserve to freeze to death.
>>507498>>507520Good, big respect to the seps for this. Rather than arming little grannies and letting them get killed for atrocity propaganda, they're getting their civvies out of the line of fire. This is what responsible leadership looks like.
It's also worth noting that the LPR leader was an anti-smuggler police commander that cracked a massive smuggling ring on behalf of the republic of Ukraine and got a military medal from the anti-Russian president of Ukraine, and reportedly refused bribes from the criminals. The only respectable politician in eastern Europe if you ask me.
>>507522No, I wouldn't compare it to what the americans do to the third world. It isn't that bad
yet.
She is just one of the many american-funded thinktank lackeys which infest the libertarian and green parties in germany. It seems to be more about aligning Germany with our "transatlantic partners" at all costs.
>>507536Well, our history certainly doesn't help the case. Most of the people who point out this relationship with the US are either reactionaries or get quickly smeared as such.
But on an economic level, germany has profited massively from NATO, as they outsourced most of the ugly, expensive part of being a world power to the Americans/French/British, and could fully concentrate on building economic and soft power.
In a way, this will one of the many waking calls for Germany that have been repeating this century.
While the country still profits from its relationship with NATO, it is becoming more and more internally contradictory: The more Germany is being expected to pull it's weight, the more it realizes that its actual Interests are more and more in conflict with american ones.
Other NATO countries are feeling this as well, especially France and Turkey. The only part of NATO which is still squarely on the American side of this are the Eastern Europeans like Poland.
>>507565All these memes will look silly when the massacres really get started.
There is no escape from the cleansing fire.
>>507567There's something wrong with them alright
If you're going to act up all the time atleast win
>>507564The people compromising their intellects to insist the soviets definitely didn't do it, clearly.
Katyn was done by the Soviets and it was based.
The only reason the Soviets ever denied it was for realpolitik reasons during the war when the Nazis tried to use it to drive a wedge between the Soviets, Allies and Poles.
>>507572Basically the whole Katyn thing./topic
Back to the Ukranian crisis
>>507572>The only reason the Soviets ever denied it was for realpolitik reasons during the war when the Nazis tried to use it to drive a wedge between the Soviets, Allies and Poles.Actually the Soviets treated lightly it's reactionary enemies. The reason why Solzhenitzyn was operated of Cancer in a Gulag.
So not really, it's not the soviet way to just kill 50.000 reactionaries, but it's the nazi way to do so because they were poles.
Also fucking german ammunition was found at the Khatyn Massacre, german ammunition which could only be fired from german guns (unless you count the tokarev pistol which used the same caliber, just less powder which, one can see how mmuch force a bullet was ejected by it's form, so…)
The Nazis did it. They were reactionaries so I'm not gonna drop a tear for them, but the Soviets didn't do massacre's like this, the Nazis were, and the entire WW2 is prove of that.
>>507557Sorry, here you go
>>507563STFU motherfucker libtard, as Volodymyr was proven to be nazis, after decades of being outcried as Soviets involvement, everything hints in Katyn
>>507588 (me)
whoops
>everything hints in Katynis also Nazi who did it.
>>507578>Actually the Soviets treated lightly it's reactionary enemies. The reason why Solzhenitzyn was operated of Cancer in a Gulag.Solzhenitzyn was a fucking nobody, of course a random russian soldier with reactionary views just gets sent to prison for a while and not domed by the NKVD, the Poles killed at Katyn were the elite of a reactionary anti-communist military dictatorship, slightly different affairs.
Also no idea where you're getting the 50,000 number from, even the most hysterical modern day polish estimates barely put it at half that.
As for the ammo, its well attested that the NKVD often used german guns for mass executions because they were better and the soviets had access to them.
Its embarrassing to twist yourself into knots over this sort of stuff and justify long-abandoned political manoeuvres because you feel like its the only way to be a 'true believer'. Stalin would cringe at this sort of intellectual frailty.
Children and old people starting evacuation,
now. Videos of people from the Donbas Republic marching to evacuate to Russia are surfacing.
>>507593>moldovaGood job defending moldovian nationalism that wanted to erradicate russophones.
>georgiaIt was Georgia who attacked Ossetia first.
>chechnyagood job defending the right-wing alqaeda proxies, chvd.
>attacks ukraineTell me one single obus that came from Russia and landed in Ukraine. No, Donbas is not part of Russia.
>>507593>>attacks georgiaGeorgia literally attacked first
>attacks ukraineDid Russia invade Ukraine already?
>>507597Are you defending putang?
That manlet should retire to his mansion and fuck off
I'm not defending the Ukraine either
>Muh eu >>507599This might be also a form to push Russia to station a huge deal of military presence in Donbas, to deter any military action. Donbas leaders may also want to push a stance on the Moscow side.
<Lukashenko said in a conference after meeting in Moscow with authorities, including Vladimir Putin, that "for the first time in decades we are at the doors of a conflict that could involve all the continent">>507601Shouting facts now makes you a "putinnist"? good, put me on the list, and be a CIA payrolled poster on another site.
>>507606Is there an Irish volunteer brigade, perhaps?
Or just one of the local leaders getting whacked for a last-minute change in leadership in some brigade or another?
>>507597>that wanted to erradicate russophones.damn, fuck poland for eradicating danzig germans am i right? also, Moldovan nationalism was literally created by Stalin after he took it from Romania kek, under support of the Nazis btw
daily reminder that Russification exists, and that even during mein GroßUSSR people outside of Russia often spoke Russian due to necessity
daily reminder that Ukrainian was banned from being taught during the Russian Empire
daily reminder that Ukraine got forcibly annexed by the Russian SFSR, despite having anarchist and leftist movements
After some confusion, seems Russia is indeed taking the evacuation seriously.
– The governor of Rostov has asked the Kremlin for help
– Putin is sending the emergencies minister to Rostov to deal with refugees
– every refugee who arrives gets 10,000 rubles on Putin's orders
https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1494704495623815175>>507607 (me)
Videos in question.
>>507610And also Russia is the main oil exporter to the EU, lmao. Eurocucks love to pay expensive oil and gas from the U.S. Colonizers, to now colonized by amerimutts.
>>507618none of what you said is in any way relevant to the situation or justifies the oppression of Russophone minorities in those countries.
Revanchist cultural or physical genocide is still genocide.
>>507618Ой, сало, сало, сало, українське сало,
Ой, яке ж воно смачне і його завжди мало,
Я до сала вже так звик, є цибуля і часник,
Покладеш сало на язик.
Сало, сало, сало, українське сало,
Українцям того сала завжди буде мало.
Щоб у вас і у нас все завжди стояло,
Треба їсти наше сало.
>>507612Yeah, seems so, the "car bomb" incident in the center of Donbas. Apparently all men between 18 to 55 are not allowed to leave Donbas. Inminent drafting.
More images of the evacuation.
>>507637>implying its not putin falseflaggingFSB is as glowie as the CIA, they literally bombed Moscow to invade other countries just like the US did with 9/11
but I forgot they're le based anti-West so it doesn't count, just like how US putting japanese people into internment camps le bad but China putting muslims into internment camps le good
>>507643>China putting muslims into internment camps le goodThey don't and I'm sure you wanted to use "concentration" instead of internment.
>anti-West<anti-imperialist (sorta?)When rightoids say "West" it's fucking vague and nearly meaningless. You don't actually give a single shit about "Western" culture.
>>507655>ignores the last 30 years of encroachmentSure, the RF is imperialist, as all hegemonic liberal states are, but no one here doubts that and no one here doubts that the US is the clear antagonist in this situation. The 2014 Euromaidan was a coup supported by a pro EU young populace that, unable to free itself of western propaganda, wanted to become like them without understanding that they were colonized by them.
eat shit
>>507659USSR did not colonize Ukraine dipshit.
>Forceful annexation by the USSRYeah bro, the anarchists democratically took control of the Ukraine while the USSR was fighting a dozen other empires storming its borders. No mention of the Bolshevik and pro USSR Ukranians that constituted the majority of the left wing there. Retard yankee
>>507657Firstly, siding with one or the other bourgeois state because its "antagonistic" or "defensive" is bad Marxism and fundamentally anti-revolutionary.
Two, the U.S is not being antagonistic here; Russia is. Ukraine clearly does not want to be ruled by them lol.
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