DENAZIFICATION IN MOTION EDITIONFriendly reminder there are other world conflicts going on, too:
https://emmeline.carto.com/viz/b69015da-136a-11e5-a64a-0e43f3deba5a/public_mapLIVE MAPS AND UPDATES
>N.B. liveuamap.com is not to be trusted, they mostly parrot Ministry of Defence, these others may not be better, check their reporting firsthttps://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/28/russia-ukraine-crisis-in-maps-and-charts-live-news-interactivehttps://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/world/europe/ukraine-maps.htmlhttps://googlemapsmania.blogspot.com/2022/02/the-russian-invasion-in-real-time.htmlNEWSNATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg: "NATO is not to be part of the conflict. NATO is not going to send the troops into Ukraine or move planes into Ukrainian airspace."
President of Poland Andrzej Duda: "Gentlemen, as Secretary General has now said, we are not sending any jets to Ukraine because that would open a military interference in the Ukrainian conflict. We are not joining that conflict. NATO is not a party to that conflict."
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_192582.htmEU gives candidate status to Ukraine, agrees on a comprehensive sanctions package against Russia in the extraordinary plenary session
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxrCVUnhWswhttps://www.eurointegration.com.ua/news/2022/03/1/7134989/Russian column bears down on Kyiv, raising fear for civilians
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-isolation-intensifies-ukraine-fighting-rages-2022-03-01/Russia-Ukraine conflict live updates: Kharkiv hit by fresh shelling, Russia faces war crimes probe (LIVE UPDATES)
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/russia-ukraine-war-live-updates-n1290293Ukraine, economy to take center stage in Biden's State of the Union address
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/ukraine-economy-center-stage-bidens-state-union-address/story?id=83158290Exodus: western companies abandon Russia
https://news.yahoo.com/exodus-western-companies-abandon-russia-104959980.htmlWhy Markets Bounced Back So Quickly After the Russian Invasion of Ukraine
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-markets-bounced-back-so-quickly-after-the-russian-invasion-of-ukraine/ar-AAUsEJURapid escalation of Ukraine crisis fuels fear of confrontation between Russia and the West
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/rapid-escalation-of-ukraine-crisis-fuels-fear-of-confrontation-between-russia-and-the-west/ar-AAUsnavUkraine: Doncaster ends Russia twinning agreement over Ukraine invasion
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-60571849Watching the War in Ukraine, Taiwanese Draw Lessons in Self-Reliance
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/01/world/asia/ukraine-taiwan-china-russia.htmlSlovakia and Czech Republic consider jail sentences to people who support Russia (UNCOMFIRMED)
https://twitter.com/astianmi/status/1498509945624481793?t=95yRU-IJ8xsMaIrEhwOW_Q&s=19ANALYSISUkraine’s far-right warriors set for war with Russia
>An ultra-nationalist force is brought in from the cold as Kiev’s fears increasehttps://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ukraines-far-right-warriors-set-for-war-with-russia-f335tvl8vArmed Nationalists in Ukraine Pose a Threat Not Just to Russia
>Kyiv is encouraging the arming of nationalist paramilitary groups to thwart a Russian invasion. But they could also destabilize the government if it agrees to a peace deal they reject.https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/10/world/europe/ukraine-nationalism-russia-invasion.htmlFrom the Maidan protests to Russia's invasion: Eight years of conflict in Ukraine
https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220228-from-the-maidan-protests-to-russia-s-invasion-eight-years-of-conflict-in-ukraineHISTORYProfile: Ukraine's ultra-nationalist Right Sector
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27173857Ukrainian Right Sector demands referendum of no-confidence to government
https://euroradio.fm/en/ukrainian-right-sector-demands-referendum-no-confidence-governmentOn June 26, a group of 50 prominent foreign policy experts that included former senators, retired military officers, diplomats and academicians, sent an open letter to President Clinton outlining their opposition to NATO expansion.
https://www.armscontrol.org/act/1997-06/arms-control-today/opposition-nato-expansionWATCH TOGETHERhttps://tv.leftypol.org/r/HappeningsviaKlash (active now)
NOTE>to others writing OPs:it is good and proper to post updated news that are a few hours old or from the same day, it provides a "snapshot" in time of what was happening on the ground and what was known at the time the thread was live. It helps give historical context to the discussion, in case someone is interested in going back, compiling posts, reading what was happening, and so on. That's the point of an archive. If the OP is made up of the same twitter links, then we might as well have a cyclical.
ANTI-SABOTEUR OPERATIONS EDITIONFriendly reminder there are other world conflicts going on, too:
https://emmeline.carto.com/viz/b69015da-136a-11e5-a64a-0e43f3deba5a/public_mapLIVE MAPS AND UPDATES
>N.B. liveuamap.com is not to be trusted, they mostly parrot Ministry of Defence, these others may not be better, check their reporting firsthttps://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/28/russia-ukraine-crisis-in-maps-and-charts-live-news-interactivehttps://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/world/europe/ukraine-maps.htmlhttps://googlemapsmania.blogspot.com/2022/02/the-russian-invasion-in-real-time.htmlNEWS
A massive Russian column was closing in on Kyiv Tuesday, with US officials warning Russia's sheer numbers could be able to overcome the Ukrainian resistance.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/kyiv-faces-potential-onslaught-as-massive-russian-column-closes-in-on-ukraines-capital/ar-AAUrOW9Russia steps up assault on Kharkiv as 27km military convoy heads to Kyiv
https://www.ft.com/content/88c4e349-9179-4bce-85d4-9d772304b13bMissile hits centre of Ukraine's second-biggest city (LIVE UPDATES)
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60542877?pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:341d7815-541d-4473-8a09-55b19f660556&pinned_post_asset_id=621dcac6ec502b53cd480359&pinned_post_type=shareHuge Russian convoy nears Kyiv (LIVE UPDATES)
>Miles-long Russian convoy nears the capital after high-level talks fail to produce ceasefire.https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/28/us-announces-plan-to-expel-russian-diplomats-from-un-liveblogMore than 70 Ukrainian soldiers killed by Russian artillery fire at military base, head of region says (LIVE UPDATES)
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-war-latest-news-putin-nuclear-deterrent-invasion-belarus-live-updates-1254171370 Ukrainian soldiers killed in Okhtyrka, huge Russian army convoy nears Kyiv (LIVE UPDATES)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/mar/01/ukraine-russia-latest-news-live-updates-war-vladimir-putin-kyiv-kharkiv-russian-invasion-updateArtillery Hits Apartment Building In Center Donetsk( Ukraine & Russia War)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3F3dh8pCIsINTERNATIONAL RESPONSE
Socialist countries and leaders on the Russia-Ukraine crisis
https://workers.today/socialist-countries-and-leaders-on-the-russia-ukraine-crisis/“Cuba aboga por una solución que garantice la seguridad y soberanía de todos”
https://www.pcc.cu/noticias/cuba-aboga-por-una-solucion-que-garantice-la-seguridad-y-soberania-de-todosAnswer of Spokesperson for Ministry of Foreign Affairs of DPRK
>The root cause of the Ukraine crisis totally lies in the hegemonic policy of the U.S. and the West which indulge themselves in high-handedness and arbitrariness towards other countries.http://www.mfa.gov.kp/view/article/14457ANALYSIS
NATO as Religion
https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/01/24/nato-as-religion/Behind NATO’s ‘cognitive warfare’: ‘Battle for your brain’ waged by Western militaries
https://mronline.org/2021/10/13/behind-natos-cognitive-warfare-battle-for-your-brain-waged-by-western-militaries/WATCH TOGETHER
https://tv.leftypol.org/r/HappeningsviaKlashUrgent! Joint Statement of Communist and Workers’ Parties, No to the imperialist war in Ukraine!http://www.solidnet.org/article/Urgent-Joint-Statement-of-Communist-and-Workers-Parties-No-to-the-imperialist-war-in-Ukraine/
>The Communist and Workers’ Parties signing this Joint Statement are opposed to the imperialist conflict in Ukraine, which constitutes one of the consequences of the tragic situation for the peoples shaped after the overthrow of socialism and the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Both the bourgeois and the opportunist forces, which for years have fought against the USSR and recently celebrated the 30th anniversary of its dissolution, silencing the fact that the restoration of capitalism meant the dismantling of historic workers’ and people’s achievements and brought the peoples of the USSR back to the era of class exploitation and imperialist wars, are completely exposed.>The developments in Ukraine, which are taking place in the framework of monopoly capitalism, are linked to the US, NATO, and EU plans and their intervention in the region in the context of their fierce competition with capitalist Russia for the control of the markets, raw materials, and transport networks of the country. These pursuits are concealed by imperialist powers, which are in conflict promoting their own pretexts such as “defending democracy”, “self-defence”, and one’s right to “choose their alliances”, the compliance with the UN or OSCE principles, or supposedly “fascism”, while deliberately detaching fascism from the capitalist system that gives rise to and utilizes it.>We denounce the activity of fascist and nationalist forces in Ukraine, anti-communism and the persecution of communists, the discrimination against the Russian-speaking population, the armed attacks of the Ukrainian government against the people in Donbas. We condemn the utilization of reactionary political forces of Ukraine, including fascist groups, by the Euro-Atlantic powers for the implementation of their plans. In addition, the anti-communist rhetoric against Lenin, the Bolsheviks, and the Soviet Union to which the Russian leadership resorts to justify its own strategic plans in the region, is unacceptable. However, nothing can tarnish the enormous contribution of socialism in the Soviet Union, which was a multinational union of equal Socialist Republics.>The decision of the Russian Federation to initially recognize the “independence” of the so-called “Peoples’ Republics” in Donbas and then to proceed to a Russian military intervention, which is taking place under the pretext of Russia’s “self-defence”, the “demilitarization” and “defascistization” of Ukraine, was not made to protect the people of the region or peace but to promote the interests of Russian monopolies in Ukrainian territory and their fierce competition with Western monopolies. We express our solidarity with the communists and the peoples of Russia and Ukraine and we stand on their side to strengthen the struggle against nationalism, which is fostered by each bourgeoisie. The peoples of both countries, who lived in peace and jointly thrived in the framework of the USSR, as well as all other peoples have no interest in siding with one or another imperialist or alliance that serves the interests of the monopolies.>We highlight that the illusions fostered by bourgeois forces claiming that there could be a “better security architecture” in Europe by EU intervention, NATO “without military plans and aggressive weapon systems in its territory”, a “pro-peace EU”, or a “peaceful multipolar world”, etc are highly dangerous. All these assumptions have nothing to do with reality and are misleading for the anti-capitalist and anti-imperialist struggle, seeking to cultivate the perception that “peaceful imperialism” may exist. However, the truth is that NATO and the EU, like any capitalist transnational union, are predatory alliances with a deeply reactionary nature that cannot become pro-people and will continue to act against workers’ and people’s rights and the peoples; that capitalism goes hand in hand with imperialist wars.>We call on the peoples of the countries whose governments are involved in the developments, especially through NATO and the EU but also Russia, to struggle against the propaganda of the bourgeois forces that lure the people to the meat grinder of imperialist war using various spurious pretexts. To demand the closure of military bases, the return home of troops from missions abroad, to strengthen the struggle for the disengagement of the countries from imperialist plans and alliances such as NATO and the EU.>The interest of the working class and the popular strata requires us to strengthen the class criterion for analyzing the developments, to chart our own independent path against monopolies and bourgeois classes, for the overthrow of capitalism, for the strengthening of the class struggle against imperialist war, for socialism, which remains as timely and necessary as ever.1. Algerian Party for Democracy and Socialism
2. Communist Party of Azerbaijan
3. Party of Labour of Austria
4. Communist Party of Bangladesh
5. Communist Party of Belgium
6. Communist Party in Denmark
7. Communist Party of El Salvador
8. Communist Party of Finland
9. Communist Party of Greece
10. Communist Party of Kurdistan-Iraq
11. Workers Party of Ireland
12. Socialist Movement of Kazakhstan
13. Socialist Party of Latvia
14. Communist Party of Mexico
15. New Communist Party of the Netherlands
16. Communist Party of Norway
17. Palestinian Communist Party
18. Communist Party of Pakistan
19. Paraguayan Communist Party
20. Peruvian Communist Party
21. Philippines Communist Party [PKP 1930]
22. Communist Party of Poland
23. Romanian Socialist Party
24. South African Communist Party
25. Communist Party of the Workers of Spain
26. Sudanese Communist Party
27. Communist Party of Swaziland
28. Communist Party of Sweden
29. Syrian Communist Party
30. Communist Party of Turkey
31. Union of Communists of Ukraine
We're watching the debate here:
https://tv.leftypol.org/r/HappeningsviaKlashCurrently Playing: LIVE: Extraordinary plenary session on the Russian invasion of Ukraine
It's like a debate in an alternative universe where Nazis won the war. If only that weren't basically what happened.
>>541416HEIL HITLER!
I MEAN…
SLAVA UKRAINI!
REAL NEW THREAD
>>541410REAL NEW THREAD
>>541410>>541422No this is the real thread cause it has dubs.
Cope.
>>541415Incorrect emotional ad-hominem. Stop painting your "enemies" as stupid, it isn't good for your mental health.
Also why the fuck did you delete the legitimate thread?
>>541424I'm sick of people pretending to give a fuck about NATO but condemn them only in passing.
"both sides bad". NO, only NATO/EU/US bad because the "badness" is OVERWHELMING.
If fighting broke out between Satan and USA, I would side with Satan because USA is the Greater Satan.
NEVER FORGET YOU FUCKING LIBS >>541430It's not idpol.
>>541435How is "it's all bad" less nihilist???
I believe a new world is possible. I believe we've been seeing the end of the end of history these past few years. And I see in NATO shills the desire to perpetuate the end of history.
I SAY NO:
No to the greater satan.
No to EU.
No to NATO.
No to the IMF.
No to the World Bank.
NO TO ALL INSTRUMENTS OF IMPERIAL HEGEMONY.
You fukuyamists will be FORCED to reconsider your positions. You will either stop being communists and adopt "social democratic anti-communist liberal" stances, or you will fall in line with the real movement.
>>541442>I believe a new world is possible.I do too. But I don't fool myself into thinking that lesser agents of imperialism are worth supporting over the top dogs. They're just as willing to fuck you
>You fukuyamists will be FORCED to reconsider your positionstankies are the fucking kings of projection lmfao
>>541439yet you are not different from them in your malding about tankies, cope.
>>541440they could be if given the chance, but in this moment they are not like the west.
>>541443Which one? Die Linke?
Any statements by MLPD or DKP you happen to have on hand?
The demos in Tiergarten were pretty big…
>>541447>I do too. But I don't fool myself into thinking that lesser agents of imperialism are worth supporting over the top dogs. They're just as willing to fuck youAnd why do you think we're not aware of this? You're watching the effects of proto-multipolarity. You're insane if you don't think that ushers in a new era of socialist activity and inter-imperalist conflict.
Remember that the alternative is American Hegemony, which is what you're shilling for.
>tankies are the fucking kings of projection lmfaoProjecting what, retard?
I never said we were going to do the forcing. History will do it for you. The end of the end of history is coming. Multipolarity is coming. The world order you desire will dissolve. You will be forced to change your pro-NATO/EU status quo positon.
>>541456How is that projection?????
>>541457Ah, true.
>>541458>you're just saying it because your ego0 sense. 0 arguments.
You fear I am right.
Paying back the debt:
This is (the only?) invidious instance that doesn't censor a connection to RT:
https://invidious-us.kavin.rocks/https://invidious-us.kavin.rocks/watch?v=GGoi774b5vU>>541424im still not convinced that the pacifists in these threads aren't shitposting but to re-iterate for the lurkers: Peace is not and never was an option, in this conflict or otherwise. How much peace do the 2 million+ prisoners and 8 million+ homeless people in America experience on a day to day basis? Or the countless unconscious proles stuck in their wage slavery? Or the victims of NATO imperialism from USSR to the countless examples in the global south? Rivers of blood have been spilt by the west and for the first time in 30 years someone is fighting back.
This war has been mild in comparison so far. If you want Peace, support Russia
>>541488My problem is that I've never actually heard a coherent reason as to
why they think this shit is going to play out the way they think it will. They just say "yes this will be an opening for the left" without
explaining why >>541462Shay is part of Luka's femboy harem.
Confirmed.
>>541453Like with any conflict where western media is seriously involved, there is a lot of people trying to shout you down without having anything to add but demanding you shut up. That's the mark of the propagandist or the useful idiot, they don't have anything to say other than you should stop muddling their homogeneous cozy narrative.
The ukranians are worthy victims and there should be unanimous condemnation, so first you condemn the bourgeois war, then you shut up and do nothing. See? you did your duty, don't worry trust the plan and go back to sleep.
Because that's what all the "No war but class war" statements boil down to. They come *mostly* from impotent parties who will never be a mile from power so they are not saying "No war but class war" because they are for the most part unable or unwilling to engage in "class war" so what they
actually mean is "no war" particularly, "no war against NATO".
Take this fedcobin "antiwar" article for example:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2022/02/antiwar-movement-uk-ukraine-russia-natoIt goes full "both sides" but actually just condemn Putin and support your local NATO atroturf protests. Sure it invokes the Iraq war and such but curiously, though namedropped skip over any actual mention of NATO escalating the conflict right up to the diplomatic breakdown which it implicitly blames on Russia, a clear propagandist position. But hey it says the slogan right? So Putin bad just keep that in mind , shout it when you are told and go back to sleep.
People are dying! You filthy
AssadistPutinist!
>>541511yes but if material conditions in the west get worse the labour aristocracy is undermined and organized labour might grow.
It's either that or the far more bleak prediction of writing off the west for the foreseeable future, which really isn't a hard thing to do in the face of the overwhelming majority of the world proles.
>>541521Not him, but honestly, I've noticed a weird reverse -chauvinism in these threads. Like
>ahahaha all westernoids are like pro-nato and stuff because they haven't magically done a communismLike yeah, you try doing that when 99% of the people you talk to are
completely fucking brainwashed and shut down at the mere mention of the west not necessarily being the good guy. It's easy to flatter yourself into thinking that you'd win over The Masses (TM) with your Superior Dialectics (TM) but you're kidding yourselves. All the old-ass 19th century jargon in the world isn't going to break through the conditioning imposed by
the single most sophisticated propaganda apparatus in the fucking world. And we know this, because many of us have tried and have
burned the fuck out. >>541534That is a resposne to western chauvinist critcism of leftist movements elsewhere.
The question is "Well, yeah, it's not perfect, but where's your movement? And, you do realize we're fighting your ruling class? What are you doing to help?"
Western leftoids are quick to denounce every single anti-imperialist movements, be it leftist or not. They are quick to dismiss every single successful insurrection.
The biggest mistake socialists can make in the eyes of letftoids is to succeed. So this "reverse-chauvinism" is a response to that.
>>541534People act like retards online, but in person usually you can have honest conversation
>>541536The problem is that populist movements are inherently reformists, their goals are in opposition to communist one. You of course can and should support left wing movements in general, but critically, as communists.
>>541516The Serbian government may not have been genocidal, but there were undeniably chetnik elements within and without the Serbian military. Just like there were mujahedeen in Bosnia and ustashe in Croatia. What people don't understand about that war is that it was happening a couple of hours drive from where people lived. Nearly all Yugoslav male population had military training (sans conscientious objectors) and AKs were relatively easy to get, especially once the war broke out and JNA weapons stockpiles got looted. So you had literal weekend warriors that would finish work on Friday, then go with a few buddies to the front and start killing. Serbs could just put on the JNA uniform, and Croatian and Bosnian forces had no standard uniforms and insignia (until later when the US helped outfit the Croatian army) except camo. And often just a piece of camo, like pants, you have tons of pictures of people in Led Zeppelin or Rolling Stones t-shirts. And these people who did this, they literally did it to go kill some Serbs/Bosnians/Croats, just for fun. A lot of atrocities was committed by these paramilitaries, and while some generals have been involved directly or indirectly on all sides, the reality is that if you and 10-15 guys who think like you decide to drive 20 mins to a village with a couple hundred old people, kill them all and burn the village, there's literally no one who can stop you or know what you did. Later on they piece information together and find out which battalion or battle group was in that area or responsible for that area and that is how they bring up charges. That and witness testimony because these atrocities were also often committed by people in the same village against their neighbours who they knew were the other race.
>>541546Let those who dwell here in his favored land attend now to the words of the Prophet of
Atom!
Let the men, women, and children of the Earth come forth to gather and witness the power of
Atom! Behold! He is coming with the clouds! And every eye shall be blind with his glory! Every ear shall be stricken deaf to hear the thunder of his voice!
Give your bodies to
Atom, my friends. Release yourself to his power, feel his
Glow, and be
Divided. There shall be no tears, no sorrow, no suffering, for in the
Division, we shall see our release from the pain and hardships of this world. Indeed, your suffering shall exist no longer; it shall be washed away in
Atom's Glow, burned from you in the fire of his brilliance.
Atom, come bestow your presence on your unworthy servant!
Each of us shall give birth to a billion stars formed from the mass of our wretched and filthy bodies. Each of us shall be mother and father to a trillion civilizations. Each of us shall know peace, shall know an end to pain, and shall know
Atom in his glory! Merciful
Atom, I give unto you these feeble bones! I present to your will this frail body! I beg of you to use me as your vessel, guide me to your brilliance,
divide each particle and give relief to this rotten flesh. Cast the fragile form of this ephemeral shell into new life in the forge of your
Glow.
We stay true, until the
Day of Division until the dawn of His return to our humble world.
Is he wrong?
>>541556kek. godspeed.
>>541589The destiny of the entire humanity lies on the shoulders of this massive faggot.
Let that sink in.
>>541583This is queued up on the cytube. Will start it at the bottom of the hour (20 minutes).
How Russia’s War In Ukraine Is Playing Out Inside Russia, w/ Prof. Boris KagarlitskyFrom BreakThrough News
https://tv.leftypol.org/r/HappeningsviaKlash >>541611Use invidious, comrade.
https://api.invidious.io/This one still supports viewing RT, while EU and Youtube have startd censoring, somehow:
https://invidious-us.kavin.rocks/ >>541564Not the point.
See this video for an explanation of the positon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd8w3ONjv6Ysorry I don't have the clip.
Minute like 4 to minute like 15.
Watch it all though. Really good talk.
I'll try my hand at clipping this great speech. Incredily relevant regarding NATO. Minute 4.
>>541609Watch the video too.
>>541641Yeah, I did
>>541634Just did
>>541650What?
They're literally threatening a pre-emptive strike against Luka.
>>541617About to start this story:
How Russia’s War In Ukraine Is Playing Out Inside Russia, w/ Prof. Boris KagarlitskyFrom BreakThrough News
https://tv.leftypol.org/r/HappeningsviaKlash >>541666What a Retard.
>>541668Agreed.
>>541665everything you said can be applied to every ideology
>Shit's pushing me towards going full anarkiddieare you not ?, because all this seething over tankies is very common with twitter anarchist.
>>541486It means nothing. Terminally online individuals, full of resentment – something most common on imageboards – are howling in joy at the blood, spilt in the slaughter of innocents. They cleanse themselves from their spite, their hate of the world and every day people by rejoicing, telling themselves that this butchery is somehow righteous; this is not a political issue for these individuals, but a psychocological one. We are watching them look upon the spectacle of war, watching them cheer for the bucthers and rejoice with every torn limb, every life lost. And dare you question the righteousness of this spectacle they so enjoy, they will fall upon you, atleast as much as one can whose behind has melded with their chairs, their eyes to screens, they will fall upon you and screech that you should be cheering too, you should be enjoy the slaughter too, you should become a butcher too.
>>541665>trendy worship of powerful figuresWho?
>>crackpot realism when it comes to war and power politicsWhat?
>bleeding heart during peacetime but perfectly willing to throw non-combatants under the bus in order to achieve their goals while spinning excuses from their assSays the "let's keep NATO hegemony intact, they aren't doing any invasions" shill.
>high-flying rhetoric regarding their principles and aims but reverting to sneering, vicious nihilism masquerading as pragmatism when their hypocrisy gets questionedWhat nihilism?
>"IF YOU'RE NOT WITH US YOU'RE AGAINST US"That's what you're literally doing in that post.
>>541659All of the European government are nazis, or crypto-nazis.
>>541681Every time russia shells apartments pretty much no one dies because they evacuate.
This asukafag should have been killed though.
>>541680And yet they made up the chief part of the shock troops of the coup in 2014, and then as the "volunteers" who were sent to the regions with anti-coup unrest.
As a rule of thumb, anyone who who pretends there isn't widespread institutionalized "Banderization" in Ukraine has never looked into the situation prior to Feb 24.
>>541700They're literally taking it as we speak.
People have to get a good night sleep you know?
>>541656Well, there you go. America saying out loud they wish for Ukraine to turn into a lawless wasteland ruled by mutt neonazis. And EU cucks are gladly going along, as if this catastrophe wouldn't affect it at all.
>>541660deets pls
>>541698>>541689I agree (
>>541680 me), they have a huge influence for their small size, e.g. grenading the parliament during Minsk procedures, but the average Ukro is a normal person
>>541681this is bullshit but i listen and believe it
>>541679thinking.emoji
>>541713not pathetic
>>541717why do they hate our brave schizo so much
>>541710Like with any conflict where western media is seriously involved, there is a lot of people trying to shout you down without having anything to add but demanding you shut up. That's the mark of the propagandist or the useful idiot, they don't have anything to say other than you should stop muddling their homogeneous cozy narrative.
The ukranians are worthy victims and there should be unanimous condemnation, so first you condemn the bourgeois war, then you shut up and do nothing. See? you did your duty, don't worry trust the plan and go back to sleep.
Because that's what all the "No war but class war" statements boil down to. They come *mostly* from impotent parties who will never be a mile from power so they are not saying "No war but class war" because they are for the most part unable or unwilling to engage in "class war" so what they actually mean is "no war" particularly, "no war against NATO".
Take this fedcobin "antiwar" article for example:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2022/02/antiwar-movement-uk-ukraine-russia-natoIt goes full "both sides" but actually just condemn Putin and support your local NATO atroturf protests. Sure it invokes the Iraq war and such but curiously, though namedropped skip over any actual mention of NATO escalating the conflict right up to the diplomatic breakdown which it implicitly blames on Russia, a clear propagandist position. But hey it says the slogan right? So Putin bad just keep that in mind , shout it when you are told and go back to sleep.
People are dying! You filthy
AssadistPutinist!
Czech Prosecutor General: public approval of Russia's actions is a criminal offense:
Public approval of Russia's military invasion of Ukraine, whether on social networks or at street demonstrations, can be interpreted as a criminal offense, for which up to three years in prison are threatened.
This was announced by the Prosecutor General of the Czech Republic. The corresponding warning also appeared on the official website of the department.
https://verejnazaloba.cz/nsz/informace-k-moznym-trestnepravnim-limitum-svobody-projevu-ve-vztahu-k-situaci-na-ukrajine/On Saturday, the police announced that, together with the prosecutor's office, they will carefully analyze such speeches in cyberspace and at public meetings for the presence of the aforementioned crimes.
>>541752muh international law
literally doesn't exist
>>541742So you're beyond criticism because it exposes you as a NATO shill? I don't get it…
Maybe if you stopped using cryptic insults
>projecting<nihilist>realist<crypto>liberal<tankieMaybe then it would be easier to critisize your non-position. Or maybe you just felt called out by someone and are lashing out. It's impossible to tell.
>You guys flatter yourselves for being the "realists" in the room.?????? What?? who said they are realists? We are leftists.
>justify engaging in exactly the kind of "shut-the-fuck-up-you're-one-of-them" propagandistic bullshitDid you get called out as a NATO shill? I don't get it.
>>541767Let me boil it down to the simplest possible woridng:
I'm calling you fucking hypocrites.
>>541749F
Were they even regular troops?
>>541779For what?????
Explain your reasoning. Lay your logic in plain sight.
>>541744> it’ll be mainstream among the left-liberals that NATO was the provocateurAnd they'll retcon about always knowing this and remember you as an unhinged psycho exaggerating.
Every. fucking. time.
Alright, so given that our favorite ww2 strategy game is about conflicts such as the one that is transpiring now, I thought I would frame the conflict in such a way that it makes it easy to understand the short, and long term ramifications of the conflict in terms of if it was transpiring in the game itself.
Alright, First of all, the civilian economies involved. Ukraine has far less civilian industry than Russia. However, Russia actually does not have that many civilian factories themselves. After the break up of the soviet union, the civilian economy was in ruins, massive malus to production, output etc. So in a comparison of the two countries, Russia should have enough civilian factories to purchase the resources it needs to fight the war. However, embargos cut Russia off from exporting its raw resources for civies. This means Russia would be low on civies, and high on resources. Their export law is between export focus and limited. Because of Russia's low relations, and worsening relations with countries, no one wants to trade with them. This means that, theoretically, they should be able to turn those into military factories, right? Well, no.
Russia has been using its military factories to build up a surplus of weapons: tanks, planes, guns, etc. Because it knew that such a day would come, and it wouldn't be able to buy, or get lend leased any more supplies. It has slightly more mils than civs because of this reason. So, any ongoing war of any scale is going to eat into those non-replaceable supplies of weapons, that could be exported to other countries for civies, which Russia needs to fill the needs of its population. Speaking of population, that is something too.
Ukraine has a population of 45 million, and Russia, 142 million. If all Russian males 25-49 were in the army, it would have an army of 30 million to call on. If Ukraine did the same, it would have an army of nine million. Now, given that Russia is on extensive conscription and could go up, that leaves them with an army of 750,000 up to a million or so. Now that Ukraine is "All adult serve", there armed forces will be around parity or slightly below Russian forces armed numbers. But as anyone knows, an army without guns is useless. Well, we are getting there.
Ukraine is currently being lend leased by many of the major powers. German Republic, The united states. France. Etc. These allow Ukraine to effectively bypass the need for mils, since they will be getting positive numbers and be able to resupply their numbers are a rate comparable to the Russians. Now, here is where the kicker is. The weapons Ukraine is being lend leased are higher tech than the Russian weapons. This means they will inflict more soft and hard attack than their counterparts. That, in combination with the lack of need of mils (or civs), and the high resistance Russians will face with their garrison units (which will not be shitties, but some including tank battalions) means that Russian attrition will be heavy, and burn a lot of man power. With Ukraine burning through Russia manpower, equipment, and will to fight (Russia may get strikes), Ukraine simply needs to make Russia life difficult, and the Russian military will simply not have anything they need to commit to the war. Keep in mind, Russia is trying to fight this war with <30 civs, <50 mils, and many embargos that prevent them from purchasing necessary raw materials.
Should the Russian federation screw up here, it is very like a scripted peace event will fire returning Ukraine's borders to their pre-war state.
If anyone has any questions or wants specifications, I will be happy to oblige.
>>541683This isn't even true
I mean, obviously people are glued to the footage, this is a massive geopolitical event, but that doesn't equate to cheering it on. The worst I've seen commonly in leftist spaces are people who hate American so much that they hook onto anything opposing it, which is unfortunate but also somewhat understandable.
I keep seeing comments like yours claiming that this board is essentially picrel with no actual grounds for their claims
>>541808Do you want to post the takes you were called a NATO shill for so that we can go over them?
Maybe people aren't explaining things to you and calling you NATO shills.
>you come up with psychotic, moralizing excuses for doing so,Like what?
>you place abstractions over actual human lives, Like what? Did you see the video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4Just watch it.
Watch this one too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd8w3ONjv6Y
>and you engage in black-and-white nuance-free screeching There is no nuance allowed anymore, for reasons previously stated. Any nuance is room for ambiguity on WHO provoked this war, and who that is is unquestionable no matter how much historical revisionism you engage in.
>>541837What is the purpose of sharing the cockshott blog post’s argument if the content of the text is so useless as to not even be worth defending? It seems you agree with me that it’s a stupid post, given that it makes an incorrect appeal to a charter Putin or Obama were never actually bound to in the first place.
The strange thing is that you appear to both want to say the appeal is correct and that Putin isn’t bound to the charter, which only undermines the appeal itself.
>>541486Have a good political line. Educate your comrades.
You're not part of a communist org?
https://twitter.com/Suriyakmaps/status/1498668588248543243
>Big developments took place in Luhansk oblast today: LPR forces advanced furthern north & west joining RussianArmy at Baidivka, thus creating a big pocket (probably empty) from this positions towards border.First direct link between advancing Donbass and Russian forces established.
First pocket (even if empty) created.
>>541867Zero.
Zero Pussy
Zero House
Zero Jobs
Zero Future
>Meanwhile, DPR are aproaching Mariupol from the East axis reaching Shyrokyne village, which is 9 Km from the city. >Despite many reports there is not true DPR have reached Russian Army positions at the western part of Mariupol. >However it is expected this will take place soon.https://twitter.com/Suriyakmaps/status/1498668594250625036Confirmed
BOTH Donbass and Russian forces closing on Mariupol.
>>541420How was my post responding to a crying liberal telling him we were anti-imperialist ever since fucking at least 2016 "sabotage"? Is there some mystical initial year of Trotskyism I haven't been made aware about, where /leftypol/ supported western invasions of developing Asian countries?
Coward mod fuck.
>>541878NATO sabatooor lies!
/our girl/ is still trucking through the Kain
>>541898it already has
>>541410Russia-Ukraine conflict live updates: Kharkiv hit by fresh shelling, Russia faces war crimes probe (LIVE UPDATES)
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/russia-ukraine-war-live-updates-n1290293 >>5418965 stages of acceptance, mate.
Denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. The bargaining comes after the anger.
>>541796It still is, the book clubbing have just been exported to our matrix community, without the mods having clearly communicated that that has happened imo.
And so leftypol has mostly been for happenings, which there are have been much of lately.
>>541885redditors think people from the south are either inbred subhuman white people, or
dumb black people from like atlanta or some shit. Yankkkee rule over the southern nation involves an unironically eugenicist view of the south in which we are unforgivable and untouchable subhumans which deserve only to be subjugated by washington DC or else we'll get uppity and either genocide black people
or become a black nationalist new afrikan communist anti-white country. The yankkkee fears us because they know that we are oppressed, much like how slaveowners feared their slaves' freedom because they knew that slaves had a chip on their shoulder about the whole thing. They know that if we were free to do our own thing, it would not end well for the amerikan empire, and they have too much to lose after they made a deal with the slaveowners to subjugate the poor.
>>541911>actual Nazisthe president and PM is jewish
>but muh azov!!1azov is 1000 members and a single battalion. refer to wagner group for russia's equivalent of azov.
>>541894Nevermind this post, I just ctrl+f'd the wrong thread.
All the active Ukraine General threads confused me.
>>541882damn bitch you live like this
sweet diorama though
>>541914>the president and PM is jewishIsrael is also nazist to a high degree. So what?
>azov is 1000 members and a single battalion. refer to wagner group for russia's equivalent of azov.Except Wagner is not created from the ground up from nazi volunteers, isn't genociding anyone and is made up of former Russian military men instead of, you know, literal nazis.
>>541914>Muh jewish president and pmhe is a open zionist that is involved with the nazis, just like obama was involved with the racist US state
>nooo azov is smol, Muh wagner groupthey are ingrained with the state, Wagner group is not
there is also more nazi groups than the azov in ukraine, right sector is another.
>>541816Ukrainians don't give a shit about the Zelensky government, because it brought them neo-liberal economic hardship and a civil war in the donbass, they don't want to fight for that, the more the neoliberal ghouls of the US puppet regime tries to force the population to fight for them and become cannon fodder, the more of them will just switch sides. Ukrainian soldiers were deserting to Russia right away at the beginning of this.
In this conflict Russia has every military advantage from more advanced weapons to air supremacy, they could have destroyed everything in their path with no regard for human lives or infrastructure in a 90 minute berserker war, but they chose not to. It has nothing to do with Ukraine having any military strength. The sheer amount of copium you had to be huffing is astonishing
The West was able to supply a few heavy infantry weapons, but they certainly are no longer able to re-supply the cities that are surrounded by Russian forces. And what weapons they managed to get in, will largely be wielded by people without experience on how to use these weapons, most of these anti-tank weapons are going to blow holes into apartment blocks. There is no winning for Ukraine, the US isn't giving them weapons to help them win, the US is trying to make this into a meat grinder insurgency battle zone like in Afghanistan.
>>541913>>541933"The workingmen of Europe feel sure that, as the American War of Independence initiated a new era of ascendancy for the middle class, so the American Antislavery War will do for the working classes. They consider it an earnest of the epoch to come that it fell to the lot of Abraham Lincoln, the single-minded son of the working class, to lead his country through the matchless struggle for the rescue of an enchained race and the reconstruction of a social world." - Karl Marx to Abraham Lincoln
Cope, seethe and dilate nazbol Neo-Confed. You aren't a Marxist and never will be.
>>541914Israel is a settler-colonialist apartheid state. Israel has funded Azov. Zelensky might be jewish but he's okay rubbing shoulders with and staffing nazis.
Wagner is a PMC, they attract deathdrive possessed chinlets and use them as cannon fodder. Wagner is not like Azov, Wagner is like Blackwater. Azov is only one among many other nazi groups: C14, OUN, Dnipro-1, Donbass, Right Sector, Freikor, Aidar
>>541935Russia has very advanced EWAR systems, to the point they have been jamming Israeli aircraft GPS navigation systems in the area of Syria (intentionally) where it is even visable on public flight radar patterns in that AO. Russians also have their own stinger shoulder fired missiles, as well as dozens of surface to air missile mobilized vehicles, as well as helicopters, combat aircraft and their own drones.
Every loss hurts when they are strategic hits such as fuel, rations, command and control. But its almost like throwing spitballs at this point. Ukraine needs another nation to militarily intervene and commit fully inside of Ukraine in order to win this "war".
Yeah they have heart, and I think even Putin has to respect their resolve and fight being they share blood, but come on. Russia's military is fucking huge. It would be like Canada repelling a full U.S. military invasion solo.
>>541943Good post. Also, these Banderite made up the bulk of the actual shock troops which were used to overthrow the government in 2014. And they were then used as death squads to squash the anti-coup unrest that broke out in the south and east. Thousands of people died in the clashes. And then they were integrated into the military and sent east to terrorize the breakaway areas in Donbass.
I've said it many times, and I'll say it again: People who say there is no widespread Banderization of institutions in Ukraine are full of shit and have literally never looked into the situation.
>>541946Petty deflection. Nobody is doing what you describe.
*yawn….*
>>541955Where? You're making this shit up?
Please show me where? Do you think people here support Russia because it used to be part of the Soviet Union? Do you realize Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union too? How does that work in your head?
Anyways, no. That is not the reason. Feel free to ask at any point instead of making assumptions.
>>541911no, because you see a vooot happened.
voot in russia doesnt count, but in ukraine it count only after nazi coup'ed the previously elected government and started banning medias
>>541978its probably posturing to deter nato getting involved
that being said, if russias security was immanently threatened, I have no doubt they would use nukes.
>>541975Simple posturing.
>>541978Russia would use nuclear weapons when it is
invaded by NATO, since they cannot win a conventional war against the whole alliance.
>>541983In this context they mean nuclear powered ballistic missile submarines. (SSBN) These carry missiles with nuclear warheads. They can also engage in (nuclear) naval combat with (nuclear tipped) torpedoes.
>>542018>DEATH CHINACringe
>DEATH TO EVERY COUNTRY WITH A POPULATION OVER 1 MILLIONRIP any attempts to create a theoretical Confederacy.
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