THEY'RE TAKING THE HOBBITS TO BELARUS
Thread for discussion about the endless meanace of the понадусеровы каклошвайны and their encroaching NATO handlers
Anarchists ending up in the Azov battalion in Ukraine… lol ("Some even joined the Azov battalion and the OUN (Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists)")
https://it.crimethinc.com/2022/02/15/war-and-anarchists-anti-authoritarian-perspectives-in-ukraineNo wonder Lenin called anarchism a bourgeois movement.
>>548685Thread song - This one goes out to the logistics pipeline drivers.
Logi is a thankless job.
>>548685Do you guys think Putin has a body double or that the original putin is dead and was replaced with someone else?
Ive analized many pictures of putin and some look quite off
The Russian towered over you as explosions rang out in the distance. You looked up at him, fearful of what he might do. After your ears were hit by a sonic boom, you were knocked out. Your platoon, men you spent years alongside fighting in donbass, were nowhere to be seen.
"W-where am i…?" You ask, looking up at him with tears in your eyes.
"You're in the courtyard of a captured building in Kherson", he replied - his accent somewhat hard to understand. "We've mostly secured the city - though there are still some insurgents here and there."
"Who are you?"
"My name is Ivan Yakunovych", he replies. "We're liberating Ukraine from the fascists. We're here to help."
You attempt to sit up, barely managing to do so by propping your body against a pillar. You're tied up with zipties. All of your patches, showing your battalion and rank, are missing. You realize that, in fact, your entire coat is missing. Your belt is nowhere to be seen, and large holes are present in your pants, though they still cover most of your legs. Scabs cover your arms and legs, mostly where the rips are. Your light frame doesn't handle damage very well, which is why you chose to be an artillery man. You wanted to stay a good distance away from any frontlines, and thus far have done a good job avoiding danger.
Suddenly, the Russian soldier steps towards you, getting uncomfortably close.
"W-what are you going to do with me, I-Ivan…?"
He looks down at you with a grin. "I am going to help denazify you."
Before you can process what he means, suddenly he crouches and grabs you by the neck, putting pressure on your trachea, though being careful not to press your carotid arteries. He looks directly at you, his face next to yours. His blue eyes are clearly visible, even though the sun is setting. He takes his hand off of your neck and… he kisses you. You are unable to act, unable to formulate any words - a russian soldier is kissing you.
He holds his lips against yours for several moments before finally breaking the kiss, his eyes opening again as he smiles.
"This war is awful, ukrainian. I've had to shoot several of your comrades already. It's a blessing that someone as beautiful as you managed to be saved from our offensive."
Your lips pout and you begin to cry. Through your tears, you shout; "H-HOW DARE YOU TOUCH ME, YOU FILTHY MONGOLOID SUBHUMAN! I AM A UKRAINIAN, A EUROPEAN! WE'VE ALREADY SUFFERED ENOUGH FROM YOUR ILK DURING THE HOLODOMOR!"
He frowns. "We are not a soviet union anymore. We are not communists, and we don't want to annex ukraine. We are simply going to help the people of novorossiya and malorossiya resist the genocides that were planned by your corrupt government."
You continue to cry. You've been fighting for azov for so long. You knew what you were doing was right! You were going to kick the filthy russians out of your country and wipe the donbass scum off the face of the earth!
But… some lingering doubt welled up within you. You knew that the children and women you were bombing had nothing to do with some fictional russian invader. Deep down, you knew… and you wished, all these years, that you would have an excuse to stop. An excuse to give up, to make peace with the russians. You thought for a moment - maybe they aren't very different to us?
You looked up at Ivan. He has clearly been watching you contemplate your actions for several minutes, watching you cry.
"Do you feel better?" he asks. You suddenly realize what is happening. You now, after all this time, have a chance to engage in diplomacy. And as you stare at his bulging muscles, his chiseled features, and his straight black hair, you think to yourself; "i can't imagine a hotter Russian i can apologize to…"
TO BE CONTINUED…
>>548696P A R T
A N D
P A R S E L
>>548749he's either tremendously stupid or he glows so much he's beyond radioactive
not sure which, maybe both?
>>548768Winter is already over, we are doing fine. There's enough time to prepare for the next one, thanks to our great Asian and American allies
>>548770I'm a social democrat, not some dumb polyp.
>>548758Ukrainians look like THAT?!?!?!?
Why does Putler want to kill this?
>>548776>I'm a social democratquelle surprise
Look you can be a democratic socialist without being a giant NATO sucking faggot. You don't even have to apologise for Russia but stop crowing about the incoming humanitarian disaster
>>814386>Zog mastersWhat are you on about?
>>548784>>548783>>548787Yes. Soon EVERYONE will be in NATO and Russias economy will be in the gutter.
It didn't have to be this way, all we wanted to do was make money and snob Americans
>>548817never could figure out if that sub was satire or not
>>548811To be somewhat fair to that poster, MAD relies on constant readiness and constant willingness to respond to a nuclear strike, if we start saying 'if we get nuked, do nothing', then that's the road to actual nuclear exchange
>>548826winning is ultimately about achieving your political aims though
i don't think they're loosing, but they still have a long way to go to "win"
I've decided to read some "Internationalist" anarchist/communist rhetoric on this war and I'm found them to be unconvincing.
Here is one example:
https://chuangcn.org/2022/03/letter-from-china-ukraine/They all seem to have a conclusion: We Must Stand With Ukraine. The reasoning to get there is hypocritical and incoherent. This war is war is a war effectively a proxy between great powers, that victimizes everone: but we must continue it, support it and arm the resistance so that is is excruciatingly long and bloody. Yes, Ukraine was invented by the Soviet union, yes it's fighting to preserve and create nationalism, it's resistance is not based on any favorable socialist principles but only raw nationalism, and yes it is indeed an ethnic conflict and creating ethnic conflict, it is indeed sparked by fascist violence, that the tendency in Ukraine was towards more fascism, more nationalism and internal war and repression, but we must send them more arms.
The only anti-war position is the pro-war position. We must support, bizarrely, the armament of Ukraine, and simply hope that does not lead into wider war. We CANNOT be neutral. We CANNOT want Ukraine to sue for peace, or the war should end even if nationalists in Ukraine lose politically. The only thing we can support is war until victory, and piling in of arms.
I just want to point out, too, that statements like "we oppose NATO troops because it could lead to WWIII, but we want to send in more arms" is, actually, NATO and the US state department's position. In fact, the position staked out here is NATO's position to a tee. Makes you think, eh? Also I like how they erased the role of Communist struggle in Vietnam and equated it into a nationalist conflict. Excellent work from the Internationalists.
>>548811It's a shit state of affairs. But truth be told, you're going to find this in every political movement, marxist or anarchist.
But truth be told, i think so-called "Lib-Socs" like Agent Kochinski only care about doing these takes for the sake of starting drama, for the sake of stirring shit, and for the sake of gaining views. He only wants to debate for the sake of debate and "being right" and he'll spite MLs "wokescolds" and other Anarchists for the sake of doing it.
I'm at least glad that I'm seeing other Anarchists online call out this shit-tier behaviour, and I'm doubly relieved that at least the ones who don't post online are actually doing shit.
>>548832Once they occupy Ukraine's major cities they will achieve a settlement and their political aims. Whether in the broader context this war will have been good for Russia, I find doubtful, but that's a separate issue.
>>548831It seems pretty obvious to me that China has not been happy with this action and would much prefer Russia would have just chilled and pursued economic development with them.
air raid siren going off in kiev
>>548845can they still? I guess so b/c they definitely wouldn't all be there if they thought they would die
>>548850That seems like a kinda naive argument
>>548854That's a completely different paper, based in Hong Kong and run by butthurt Falun Gongites
>>548854SCMP and CGTN (international) are different. Actually CGTN, in China, is the state broadcaster and an authoritative voice on the official line.
However, english-language versions of it are not even remotely the same.
SCMP is just a really bad newspaper that is nominally owned by Jack Ma. The CCP doesn't control it.
>>548858>That seems like a kinda naive argumentThe opposite is ture.
>>548861No, that is People's Daily.
China daily is just some kind of lame broadcaster that inexplicably rents out full page advertisements in foreign papers which nobody reads.
Modern warfare in modern cities looks absolutely like a fucking nightmare.
50 privately owned Google Earth spy satellites are viewing runways and updating the position, numbers and types of aircraft you position outside of target nations and posting them to social media.
1,000,000 traffic cameras are updating the exact time, location, roadway, direction, volume of equipment moving around the country.
Doordash drivers are cell phoning the movements, location, time and direction of equipment and uploading it to TikTok.
Your VDV insertion helos passing over peoples houses, towns and farms flying low as shit to avoid the 500 stingers on Gamgam's kitchen table are being filmed by everyone and posted online showing time, direction, numbers, location.
Google Ring cameras are showing your troops trying to break into Disco Inferno to grab a piece of cover from the drunken potato farming spraying at you from his third story apartment window screeching about SLAVA UKRANYA.
Every time you lose a piece of equipment some potato farmer spray paints a gigantic Z onto it to make it look like everyone was killed and demoralize the next convoy to come through.
Fucking hell. The entire way modern warfare will be fought in the future is being changed instantly.
We will see whole nations adjust and adapt their whole military force after this war.
In the future I predict a heavy reliance massive hacking tools to terminate all internet, terminate all cell phone towers, hell you would need to destroy an entire nations electrical supply with shit like Elon Musks Star Link, but then 500 countries zoomers will be protesting around the world with Madonna demanding that NATO nukes you for peace.
Russia even sentt in the majority of the Wagner PMC group to try and merc Zelensky calmy and swifty, and couldn't get close, they even tried to get some target trackers close to his position and hit it but couldn't get close.
>>548851>But why take up pro nato narratives when that is the most common takes?I do think to an extent that it's POSSIBLY TRUE that Putins invasion of the Ukraine is for the sake of increasing his hegemony, and his actions have displaced thousands of people and have only inflicted harm on the Russian people as a whole, but based on the language that is used, it comes off as flowery and "pro-nato" and "pro-US".
It seems that there's honestly no winning, no matter how you argue.
If you talk about how the DPR and LPR have a right to defend themselves against the Azov Battalion, you get called a putinoid.
Talk about how Russia's invasion of Ukraine is likely just an imperialist ploy done to further the hegemony of Russia and line its pockets for its Oligarchs, you get called a NATO shill.
>I'm glad the Russians are at least de-nazifying the Ukraine<PUTINOID>I'm not interested in taking sides with either Ukraine or Putin, we should stand with the Ukranian people<NATO shill >Russia has a right to defend itself against NATO agression <PUTINOIDand on and on and on. On one hand, I welcome the death of NATO and a new age of multipolairty which fucks with US hegemony, but I'm not too thrilled that it comes from an anti-communist Russian government. All I can hope for is the Anarchist insurgents in Ukraine to at least provide help to the Ukranian proleteriat, and for the Russian communists to bring their oligarchs to heel. But even I'm deeply cynical and although I hope for the best, I'm also expecting the worst.
It's a shit state of affairs, lads.
It must've been a punishment for my past sins being born into this shithole of a country.
Russian large capitalists are completely delusional faggots, they think their nanny State and mr Putin could save their asses from an imminent economic meltdown. Fucking tools should read a book, they're sitting on a timebomb. Currency freefall is making russia literally unlivable, inflation is spiraling out of control fast. I always use Ali Express as a barometer, and past few days send shock waves, with some 2TB hard drives now costing a median wage in my oblast, up from just a quarter before our capitalist elites decided they're big boys now. Everything on Ali is getting more expensive by the hour, now you literally slave away for food in this shithole, because you can wave goodbuy to durable goods if you're not a literal bourg or labor aristocrat.
Was arguing about this at work, the persecution victim complex is unbearable. "We were forced to attack! West was always bullying us! Now we're fighting back!" sorry don't give a fuck about your "geopolitics" and your "russian nation" and its "history" when I'm working my ass off literally for fucking nothing. All this time that ruble tumbled down as we "fought the bully", the wages stayed fucking stagnant. This is a literal joke. Fuck your ambitions russian elite, fuck your eternal persecution complex, and fuck your incessant bitching. I sincerely hope you'll slapped, humiliated, and forced to crawl back to the old bourgeoisie of the Core. If I'm forced to die in your wars for your impotent ambitions - from the very bottom of my heart I hope you will lose them.
It would've been glorious to see you slowly melting in nuclear fires, crawling, curling, spasming on the ground, just like it would've been for an ancient slave to see his Roman masters writhing in agony under the burning ashes of Pompeii.
will the kievocalypse begin today?
>>548926Any chance of revolution? Or at least Putin getting kicked out?
>>548933Yeah, and MLs are cheering for Putin and making excuses for Russian imperialism. Does that mean I should generalise all MLs knowing that there are those don't?
>joining Azov<so-called lib-socsYes, and Agent Kochinski is a Lib-Soc who represents the entire political ideology.
Fuck off with this secretarian bullshit, both of you.
>>548943That comment though.
Just straight up advocating for fascism and the genocide of a people
>>548921Keep coping with the fact that the ML project, despite controlling almost a third of the entire world, somehow failed so hard that the only revolutionary force of the 21st century turned out to be capitalism
Read Zizek
>>548923God, read marx
>>548929MLs achieved something, and then their project ultimately failed. A competent person would analyze the situation and say "Hmm, I guess that doesn't work". But no, you retards constantly need to find other people to blame. Bad actors, revisionists, et cetera. It's so tiring reading page after page of irrelevant soviet apologia and Russian chauvinism. Nobody fucking cares anymore. You crow about Great man theory when it's convenient to own the libs and then you practice it yourselves all the time. It's so tiring.
>>548935>When the US invaded Afghanistan and Iraq the locals hated it and resisted furiously>implying this is not currently happening in hoholistan as we speakThis will be Russia's new Afghanistan, unfortunately. The occupation will be long and costly. We will likely get nazi ISIS thanks to Putin. Great
>>548940The issue the Germans suffered on the way to Moscow was Hitler being an incredibly incompetent military general and not just sitting back playing Zelensky giving speeches.
Hitler had lots of yes men who were afraid to tell the mighty fuhrer that he was a stupid retard when it came to military planning and strategy.
He had some of the greatest generals in history under his command, and he would fucking fire them and make decisions himself.
Literally brain dead incompetent when it came to military strategy.
>>548960https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/omtmdczu48/econToplines.pdf24. Which of the following do you think best describes Russia?
Communist . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42%
Socialist . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13%
Capitalist . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11%
Something else . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17%
Not sure . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17%
>>548954so what do you propose really moron
what is your alternative to the ML model?
the only thing that seems to be working right now is dengist one
>>548900Hey m8,
Take some time offline to look after yourself y'know.
>>548977disgusting image, this is not only vilifying our message of internationalism and breaking capitalist chains but it also seems to be made by a rightoid with it's apparent't seething against gay people
just cause it's been edited with or has some communists doesn't make it any less of an anti-communist image
>>548974Let's be real here, dengism isn't socialism. Maybe Xi will press the socialism button, I don't know, but I doubt it will be any time soon.
You understand that a repeat of the USSR is impossible, why wish to go back to something that just doesn't exist anymore like a fascist
I propose any model that isn't so oppressive
But a socialist project in the 21st century will not look like it did in the 20th century, and this is something MLs struggle to grapple with
>>548977>reading Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Althusser, Amin, Haywood, etc means you've read marxNah
>>548981Yes, he does, and he is right. He's not talking about Russians here.
>>548994I think a lot of people need to read about the history of Ukraine. It's not a simple as Ukrainian nazis vs. Russian liberators like leftypol wants to believe. There is a long history of suppression of the Ukrainian language, religion, and culture by Russians that goes back to the Tsars.
>inb4 NATO shill>inb4 BanderiteFuck NATO and fuck Stepan Bandera.
>>814556>Socialism is actually when you're a nationalistYes. Anti-nationalism is infact what imperialists do and want. Imperialism wishes to destroy the nation so that the proletariat of a nation has nothing to rally under. The nation is an objective reality that one can't just wish away. Nations are not determined by statehood, or the official citizenship of a person.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1913/03.htmImperialist war against Russia and a *western-backed* civil war against the Russian national industrial bourgeoisie puts Russian nation at stake, and therefore endangers a potential rallying point of the Russian proletariat against the bourgeoise. This is not only a question of just putting the working class in power, it is a question of the survival of the Russian nation, which can only survive when its builders, the proletariat, smash the bourgeoisie state and put their own dictatorship in its place, and purge the destroyer of nations, capitalism, to the dustbin of history.
>>548998>I think a lot of people need to read about the history of Ukraine. It's not a simple as Ukrainian nazis vs. Russian liberators like leftypol wants to believe. There is a long history of suppression of the Ukrainian language, religion, and culture by Russians that goes back to the TsarsNeither banderist vs red army nor oppressed nation vs oppressor nation dichotomies apply here
Ukraine's national identity is contradictory as constructed out of an SSR because the latter is multinational, and its nationalist coup essentially made parts of the country non-Ukrainian by destroying their historical connection to the country and making them Russian
>>549005>Imperialist war against RussiaBut no one has invaded Russia? The country has not been attacked. And if you believed Ukraine has actually attacked Russia, you should read up on how Putin even got into power in the first place. His FSB agents were caught planting bombs in apartment buildings, some of which exploded. Then, this was blamed on Chechen militants to justify a subsequent invasion of Chechnya. It was basically the Russian 9/11, except if they had caught FBI agents planting thermite in the elevators of the twin towers.
>>549007>>549008Ah, I forgot we have to do everything in our power to make sure people understand what a paradise the USSR was, because of course we will eventually go back to it. You know it's okay to analyze what went wrong, right? It's over, it's gone, it's done and it will never exist again. Read Hegel.
>Making people learn a common language is not chauvinism faggotThis is not what I was talking about at all, there was much more than that if you actually read about it…Banning of non-russian orthodox churches, banning of traditional ethnic dances, et cetera. But you won't read about it, because you don't really have an interest. Shame, kak zhal
>>548954>This will be Russia's new Afghanistan, unfortunately. it won't
>The occupation will be long and costly.They won't occupy Ukraine, stop watching mainstream news or social-media that is being manipulated to replicate the political line of mainstream media, if you can't deal with being propagandized. How could you believe any of this deranged stuff they are putting out: it's great man theory with evil characteristics. States are mostly rational actors that are moved by their interests. If anything the outlier that is acting against their rational interests seem to be Euro countries.
>We will likely get nazi ISIS You mean AZOV battalion ? that's already there thanks to the US.
>>549016>But no one has invaded Russia? The country has not been attackedNATO encroachment is attack. Are you paid by Hillary Clinton?
>Ah, I forgot we have to do everything in our power to make sure people understand what a paradise the USSR wasThere is a difference between learning and developing from the past, and parroting false anticommunist propaganda
>>549016>But no one has invaded RussiaOnce again…we must consider deaptation
You are saying the anti imperialist position here is deapted. It's a theory of conditions that are from the past.
Clearly this applies to the national struggle of Ukraine, which is not against the Tsar or the Soviets but itself and its own ethnic composition
This applies to the West, which is battling not a great nation with a sphere nor another imperialist, but a nation which self abolished a poly national state and now doesn't want to be contained by the exploitation of these divisions
What do we describe this, then? How does the proletariat overcome nationalism and imperialism to unite here?
It's suggesting that ending the recent alignment of Western imperialism and Eastern nationalism is the first step. I'm not sure this is wrong. It's the first layer of the onion to peel back. Are you just arguing there's a Russian chauvinist layer afterwards to peel?
>>549016>But no one has invaded Russia?Why do you deny the slow-motion NATO war against Russia over the past several decades? Are you paid by Hillary Clinton? Russia doesn't want NATO tanks/troops/missiles, and more importantly US air missile defences on their border because an effective air missile defensive system enricling them effectively ends MAD and creates a realistic means for the US to perform a crippling first strike attack on Russia enough to destroy Russia's ability to respond. Russia's nukes become potentially useless & the country becomes a hostage to nuclear blackmail. Rather than nuclear war, the end goal of the US seems to be nuclear blackmail & economic/geopolitical dominance to bring about the Balkanization of Russia (unified Russia even in it's crippled post-Soviet state is too strong of an economic power & thus also geopolitical competittor) which in action would likely lead to a deathtoll in the high 8 figure range at a bare minimum & the permanent impoverishment of the region.
This seems to be the reason why the US wants Ukraine. Getting Ukraine might open the door to what would effectively be the largest genocide in history, drawfing anything that happened in WW2. Preventing Ukraine from becoming a NATO member is an outright matter of survival for people of both Ukraine and Russia
>>549023>NATO encroachment is attackThere are no NATO soldiers in Ukraine or Russia right now.
>Are you paid by Hillary Clinton?Yes, of course, and it's why I live under the poverty line
>There is a difference between learning and developing from the past, and parroting false anticommunist propagandaAnticommunist propaganda is that just living in the soviet union could get you shot or something. It's like the burger meme, go outside, live in the soviet union, get shot. I hardly think admitting that there was oppression of ethnic minorities during the USSR is an example of anticommunist propaganda.
>>549026>slow-motion NATO war against RussiaPlease elaborate. Do you mean the NATO invasion of Crimea? Or the planned NATO invasion of Moldova and Transnitria? Oh wait
>the end goal of the US seems to be nuclear blackmail & economic/geopolitical dominance to bring about the Balkanization of RussiaLet's assume you are correct. And you care about this, why? Seems like capitalist infighting to me. Why would a balkanized Russia be bad? China seems much more friendly to socialism right now than Russia.
>>549029What national divisions is NATO exploiting, and how? Can you provide evidence of this? Putin has taken care of the Chechen AND Georgian separatists, and in a very bloody way. They're not going anywhere any time soon.
>>548986cool,
do you have any model in your mind? Because if not
then there is no fruitfulness to your opposition, we need ideas, criticism helps, but it is only half the part of the puzzle
how would MLs need to change or grasp their model in the 21st century?
>>549027>There are no NATO soldiers in Ukraine or Russia right now.Are you autistic? You clearly know what everyone means by attack and encroachment
>there was oppression of ethnic minorities during the USSRI can't tell if this is idpol bait or if this is serious. Treatment of ethinic minorities was very progressive for the time
>All nationalities of the USSR may choose to be educated in their native languages, and all the major nationalities may receive their entire education through college in the language of their republic. That most students from the various nationalities take advantage of this option without discrimination has been testified to by many Western scholars.>For example, in Lithuania, 'students who begin their education in Lithuanian suffer no discrimination at higher levels; university instruction is almost exclusively in Lithuanian.' Most students in the Baltic countries receive their education in the Baltic languages. In Estonia's general schools, for example, 73% use Estonian and 8% use both Estonian and Russian. In I960, 89% of higher education students studied in Estonian. Further, a significant number of those of Russian nationality attend Estonian language schools at all levels.>In Central Asia, however, there is a disproportionate number of non Asian immigrants in higher education - 30% in 1959 - even though they represented only about 20% of the population. Nevertheless, compared to the situation before the Revolution, or even in the late 1920s, the progress in this context is significant. To quote a Western scholar: 'When … this situation is compared with that prevailing thirty years ago when there were no higher educational establishments which Muslims could attend, progress can be seen as remarkable.'>There is no tendency for native languages to be undermined and replaced by Russian; the evidence indicates precisely the opposite, including officially sponsored campaigns to purify the native languages of 'Russianisms'. From 1959 to 1970, the percentage of Azerbaidzhanis speaking their native language increased from 97.6% to 98.2% (and of these only 16.6% said they spoke Russian as a second language). Similarly among the Uzbeks, of whom, in 1970, only 13% stated they spoke Russian as a second language.>Soviet policy, while it favours the development and preservation of native culture and language, also encourages migration of various nationalities throughout the USSR, especially to the resource rich, underpopulated areas of Siberia and much of Central Asia. Thus large numbers of Slavs, mostly Russians and Ukrainians, have settled in Central Asia, especially in Kazakhstan where they have become the majority of the total population. In recent years, however, apparently largely because of the high birth rates among Soviet Asians, the proportion of the population that is of the titular nationality has increased in all six Asiatic republics (see Table 2.10).>Soviet policy has always been to encourage preservation and development of the local cultures. In the 1920s, any group that felt itself to be a nationality was officially encouraged to develop its language, culture and sense of social cohesion. This was supported by the state by opening schools, publishing books and periodicals, and wherever the group was sufficiently concentrated geographically, given various degrees of local self-government. Generally the larger the group, the greater the extent of local autonomy. In the post-World War II period, this policy has been continued for groups of any significant size and geographical concentration. From the 1920s, in Soviet Asia, literature in the native languages and native art forms accessible to the people blossomed with government and Party support. >>548984i'm wagging my finger with disapproval
our messaging needs to be clear and concise
no mixed signals
>>548996wtf is cosmopolitanism and how did i describe internationalism as that
>>549003and how are they western left?
all i see is gay and che shirt which only plays into the usual anti-communist idpol attack
i understand it may not be against internationalism, but i look at things with the basest perspective
and it only depicts two messages
gay people bad and weird and "workers of the world unite" is weirdo
>>549033>What national divisions is NATO exploiting, and howThey use the national divisions of the former USSR by making the 1989 nationalist counter revolution a permanent revolution - for some nationalities. This is pursuant to the containment of Russia and the expansion of Europe. Georgia and Ukraine are encouraged to attack their national minorities, which wield ASSRs and autonomous oblasts, while the baltics disenfranchise Russians
It's wielding these historical divisions of the proletariat that lets the imperialists control the region, provoking a Russian reaction that then justifies this in a cycle
>>549033>Seems like capitalist infighting to me>Why would a balkanized Russia be badAlready answered here
>>549005 your lib brain just glazed over it, and the link to the book too. Other posts mentioning "stalinoids" were made under your flag, did you make those? Are you a trot?
>>549033>What national divisions is NATO exploiting, and howSo tiresome educating these trots. They know what you mean but they feign ignorance because of autism, or maybe they just want free education. Starting to understand the "trot to neocon pipeline" meme
>>549031They cut off Russian consumers, but the Russian bourg walk free as usual. Looking out for their own when their investments (presumably in Ukraine) are threatened. It's not so hard to understand
>>549034>how would MLs need to change or grasp their model in the 21st centuryTo start, no more autistic ranting about the soviet union and how a theater director and a ballet dancer from moscow deserved to get purged by Stalin. But I think the first step is that MLs need to embrace a decentralized resistance. It seems the only way with a surveillance state this strong now. And need to stop reading Stalin/Lenin as if they were philosophers; they weren't, they were politicians.
>>549035Where is that long quote taken from?
>You clearly know what everyone means by attack and encroachmentNo, I don't, besides "attack and encroachment", and Ukrainian soldiers did not attack Russia or occupy Russian land.
>Treatment of ethinic minorities was very progressive for the time>for the timeHmm, the facade cracks. Yes, the long and bloody deportation of the Tatars from Crimea was certainly progressive, I suppose he could have just genocided them all. You do know I'm not arguing for a return to Tsardom and you don't have to treat me like a monarchist right? The USSR was undoubtedly an improvement on serfdom but that doesn't mean we can't criticize it. I don't understand why this is so difficult for MLs.
>>549043>No, I don't, besides "attack and encroachment", and Ukrainian soldiers did not attack Russia or occupy Russian landAre you being serious? NATO is confirmed to have resolved, after debates over the Partnership for Peace, on realist led containment of Russia. That meant allying with anyone who would oppose them, they weren't liberals so they didn't give a shit
In Ukraine, they had a nationalist coup that immediately went after people it made non-Ukrainian and protested accordingly as Russians. Donbas and Crimea are national liberation struggles
>>549042>Already answeredI responded to that post separately, I'd like you to write your own response
I am not a trot.
>>549041>Georgia and Ukraine are encouraged to attack their national minoritiesWhat national minorities?
I'd like to know, since we are justifying Russian interventions, which minorities the Chechens were suppressing as well?
>>549046>instead of either talking to the people who lived it or reading a book that didn't just confirm your priorsI have, actually, talked to both people who suffered under the soviets (or Tito actually) and people who had a much better quality of life under them. Have you?
>Unlatch your mouth from the current suction cup of shit you're drinking and maybe come to grips with being lied toIdeology
>>549043>No, I don'tSure
>b-but the tatars!!!!An exception here and there changes nothing about the fact that the treatment of ethnic minorities was very progressive for the time. Instead of isolating the Soviet Union as an abstract object in a vacuum, and judging that object based on modern moral standards, you can compare it with other parts of the world at the time.
No one here denies that the deportation of Tatars wasn't the best part of Soviet history. Not clue why you think MLs don't learn and develop from the past, it's a strawman you can't stop conjuring up just because you want to "own the MLs" or something.
>>549050>people who suffered under Tito>le ebin liberal zizek flagTOP KEK
I hope whichever religious/nationalist extremist fags, Petar Brzica/Draza Mihajlovic cucks you talked to continue to suffer.
>>549031>i really don't understand the actions that western corporations are taking by cutting off russian consumers and their marketIt end's up being unintentional reverse protectionism for Russia. Russia's local industry is too small to compete with large transnationals, but when Russia gets cut off from world trade their smaller industries will grow and develop because without globally operating competitors they get higher margins on the domestic market and that means they can sustain a higher rate of investment. Russia had a very weak agricultural sector until they got their grain imports sanctioned away roughly a decade ago. And now their agricultural sector is large enough that they are something like the third largest grain exporter in the world.
I think the logic of western corps driving this is that they are primary financial entities with some production attached to it, and they are not that interested in commodity export, they are more interested in exporting financial capital. You know imperial stuff. They want the Russian government to be knocked over to create total chaos with desperate sellers that allows them to buy up Russian capital assets far below market value.
>>549043What I learned from studying the russian revolution and the Soviet Union is that communists were weak and excessively soft hearted.
Many who needed to be executed were alive. Moreover they were not metaphysically eliminated.
The mistake shall not repeated. Degenerates of your type will be eliminated along your families and friends.
No quarter, no mercy. A final solution to the problem of the enemy
>>549064Yeah because Macron is such a Warlord nuking to light up Moscow.
NATO is so dangerous that Putin can barely manage to sell them most of their oil.
>>549053Very well, can you provide some proof now?
And now you have to agree then that if Russia has suppressed any minorities themselves at all (chechens, asians, et cet), then those minorities have a right to attack Russia?
>>549054>An exception hereNo, just one example. Koreans, Caucasians, and others.
>the treatment of ethnic minorities was very progressive for the timeMy friend I agree with you, it was better treatment than the Tsar but that doesn't make it the best we can do as leftists…
>>549055Actually, the religious/nationalist extremist "fags" I talked to are leftists now, so I'm not sure why you would want them to suffer
>>549066>Degenerates of your type will be eliminated along your families and friendsThis just makes you sound deranged
>>549071>a balkanized Russia would be bad for the working class of RussiaI'd like you to explain how. What if I think a balkanized Russia and US would be good for the working class?
>>549079Leftypol supports the russians as usual I think
Not me though, I'd like to see Putin hang for all the looting from working Russians he has done, and what he did to Chechnya
At the same time, Zelensky and the liberal propaganda is all very annoying, and I do like that the Russians have taken the Azov area, hopefully some fascists have died
I think the best scenario is a long bloody drawn out war and another Russian revolution, but likely we'll just get nazi ISIS and another Putin when Vova finally dies from whatever terminal illness he has
>>549077>Very well, can you provide some proof now?Saakashvili resolved after 2004 rose revolution to absorb the autonomous oblasts, which caused war in the early 90s too
Ukraine using a government made entirely by west ukrainian parties repealed its language law, installed pro Kiev governors in the east, went after eastern opposition, and sent the army after pro Russian protesters who were doing what West Ukraine did during maidan. They declared Ukrainians indigenous but not Russians.
Subsequent attempts to decentralize were met with rioting like in 2015 at the Rada
In both cases we see attempts to form a unitary nation state out of an SSR causing national and ethnic divisions
>russia Is federalized and not doing this, although I believe they are reducing the rights of autonomous oblasts and such
>>549077>No, just one exampleHow much of the things surrounding these deportations is propaganda or not, is a different discussion. In the case of Estonia, I would agree that a significant portion of those deported were kulaks that wanted to re-establish a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, some that fought with the nazis during the great patriotic war. Some might have been innocents or random relatives.
>My friend I agree with you, it was better treatment than the TsarAlso just about all other countries at the time
>but that doesn't make it the best we can do as leftists…Yes
>I'd like you to explain howOk,
>>549005 >>549089Ia NATO wins 0%
If Russia wins 10%
The real deal is south america and africa, if NATO loses and we're back to a multipolar 1950 world things will get interesting.
>>549092Surely it will work this time right?
Better grab your shovels, yall about to all become coal miners Boris.
>>549084I said NATO troops, these are British…
>>549090>Saakashvili resolved after 2004 rose revolution to absorb the autonomous oblasts, which caused war in the early 90s too Sorry, I think this might be translated not so great, is there any way you can reword this?
>>549077Call me whatever you like.
Whether it be the ukrainian banderite, the russian vlasovite or those degenerates like you who hail from sodom us or gomorra eu. You must all be erased.
There will be no escape.
>>549098what the fuck
they look
literally
nothing alike
>>549097So it's still a long way to go huh? I thought conditions seem to be getting riper for revolution.
>>549091Is it lack of organizing or repression of communisfs, or both?
>>549113West capitalism = free market democracy
Eastern capitalism = authoritarian oligarchy
>>549111Don't listen to the doomers, we'll have a revolution somewhere in the next 20 years i'm sure
>>549108Oh please, the cringe.
>>549117West capitalism is authoritarian, just less so. In the west, you can make the Pentagon in Minecraft and blow it up and not get thrown in prison for doing so (yes, there was a russian kid who actually got thrown in prison for this but with the FSB building)
Doesn't make it better than eastern capitalism, but under western capitalism since more resistance is tolerated, there might be a better chance of real revolution
That is why we must vote for local politicians who want to decriminalize things, even if they are liberals. The fewer the consequences of our resistance, the greater our chances.
>>549131You are greek? You are a westoid….
>>549134They aren't NATO soldiers though. If they were, it would mean nuclear war.
>>549135Sigh, why would I be racist against myself?
>>549130western capitalism has more resistance therefore its more likely theres a revolution
>ignoring the fact that resistance is fueled more by liberal individualism and that their liberalism will make them even more hostile to collective socialismEH
>>549135If only it were true. Liberal individual freedoms are a degenerate sickness of a concept that have to be abolished.
If Stalin really was a totalitarian dictator, the soviet union be going strong to this day in peace and the goddamn banderites and vlasovites of both sides would be where they cause zero harm: Non-existence.
>>549166Solidarity comrade. It is your countries that will lead the way as they always have historically.
Your struggle will free us all from the mind virus of liberalism and the real alien parasite of capitalism.
>>549153but i can explain a decent part of it to being muh freedom, muh no mask, muh no vax because its against my "liberty"
like i can understand being hostile to lockdowns, i can kind of understand being hostile to vaccines, but also being hostile to something simple as a MASK
eh
>>549169Source?
clips from American TV posted in previous Ukraine happening threads, i didn't save it, you have to go dig through the leftypol archive.
>>549171>Judging by what I have seenYou went to Russia and looked at their military ?
Washington Bullets: A History of the CIA, Coups, and Assassinations Paperback
< September 22, 2020
<by Vijay Prashad
>Essays on acts of US imperialism, from the 1953 Iran coup to the 2019 ouster of Evo Morales
>Washington Bullets is written in the best traditions of Marxist journalism and history-writing. It is a book of fluent and readable stories, full of detail about US imperialism, but never letting the minutiae obscure the larger political point. It is a book that could easily have been a song of despair―a lament of lost causes; it is, after all, a roll call of butchers and assassins; of plots against people’s movements and governments; of the assassinations of socialists, Marxists, communists all over the Third World by the country where liberty is a statue.
>Despite all this, Washington Bullets is a book about possibilities, about hope, about genuine heroes. One such is Thomas Sankara of Burkina Faso―also assassinated―who said: ‘You cannot carry out fundamental change without a certain amount of madness. In this case, it comes from nonconformity, the courage to turn your back on the old formulas, the courage to invent the future. It took the madmen of yesterday for us to be able to act with extreme clarity today. I want to be one of those madmen. We must dare to invent the future.’
>>549210Never thought I’d see a whataboutism in defense of NATO here
>>814968What stealing their land? Do you think Putin wants to annex Ukraine? Or that he’s recreating the USSR 2.0?
>>549191yeah and thats another point america is filled with labor aristrocricacy or petit borg in the lower to mid class that i dont see a good chance of revolution here.
I mean i guess the non petit borg or arit class people might but genuine marxists are a minority while others are Agent Kochinskiites
>>549196i dont disagree with this, i just think theres a low chance that the people here will pull a socialist revolution and would instead do something worse like a reactionary, or even a fascist one
>>549224The thing about these sanctions is that they all need Russian oil and it's cheaper much cheaper oil than the shit the states are offering.
>>549226/pol/
>>549233I mean russia. Whatever man. The fact that this thread lost to the pro nato shills. WHere is even baseline contrarianism? What happened to pride?
>>549234Pure hopium. Putin gets a W and his approval rating rests at 60% as it always does.
>>549248No shit.
>>549246Meh. I don't even care anymore. I just want the memeforce to die. The redditors to seethe. That is all I want. I am petty, I am a nasty bitch. I don't care.
>>549247If Nato is weakened that would be a good point but Nato is strong as ever, and will still stomp on the heads of anti-capitalists everywhere. BEcause that is what they were formed to do. To stop revolution.
>>549252@RealpepeEscobar
lol straight from the intelligence satellite footage
>>548719Listening to the audio and the impact that occurred (along with a large history of fabricated and false-flag videos by Ukrainian ATO forces) I think this is a set up, because it's very unlikely for someone to calmly just film a ship in harbor and then after the explosion calmly ask "did you get it?"
Reeks of false-flag.
>>549240Yes but if Putin wins the war he will he a hero for the russian people.
Meh I can live with that.
>>548758Shay, I really have fun laughing at your shitposting on /siberia/… but keep it there.
Sincerely,
Anon
>>548814No, no it wouldn't, pic related. It would kill most of humanity and lead to Nuclear Winter for at least a couple decades though.
>>548898You're overdramatizing a bit but, yeah, it's a tactical nightmare.
>>548903I think maybe 2 weeks, but more likely 10-11 days
>>548830 >>548863Ah, General Patton's legacy of being a Nazi sympathizing, dehumanizing, unaware scumbag continues ever strongly… how "nice", Goebbels approves.
>>548883>>548886You better be fucking joking
>>548901 I can already hear the triggered handwringing
>>548906>The West is Winning, Russia is Losing, and Biden is Doing a Good JobIt's so transparent I have to speculate if I put on They Live glasses as I read this title.
>>548926>We were forced to attack! West was always bullying us! Now we're fighting back!" sorry don't give a fuck about your "geopolitics" and your "russian nation" and its "history" when I'm working my ass off literally for fucking nothing.1) Geopolitics matter, yeah life sucks but if you think it can't get worse, you're an idiot that apparently slept through the 90s. Geopolitical real-politik is important on a national scale and your personal dislike of your government does
2) Russian capitalists are no different to capitalists anywhere else, stop presenting obvious self-destructive tendencies of capitalism as if you fucking discovered America
3) They didn't attack you fucking liberast, you can curse Putin and his oligarchate all you like, that's fine, nobody that has any understanding of politics disagrees, but Putin is not a monolith, he does not represent Russia and it's entirety. Russia ought to have done this far earlier and many people wanted it, the DPR and LNR began applying to join Russia the moment the Ukrainian referendum results came in, and for years asked for Russia to assist. Russia IS attacked and this is blatantly obvious to anyone that isn't a solzhenitsyn-tier cunt.
>wages Nothing to do ith the conflict, and if you feel that strongly then actually do something concrete instead of projecting your discontent unto something utterly unrelated.
>this shitholeAnd this is a key phrase you use, not "MY country" but "This country" it´s not "that country over there" it's YOUR country and your words betray you.
Finally Your text is literally copy-pasta tier, unfortunately I can't confirm, but by the style I recognize it reminds me of the liberal copy-pasta done by various EchoOfMoscow and RadioFreeEurope shill bots.
>>549320The channel that debunks most of the Ukrainian fakes:
https://web.telegram.org/z/#-1736895964From there is where I could bring evidence of this earlier:
>>548719 Ukrainian media rushed to say that Russia was doing an amphibious landing on Odesa and they sunk their ship, however, the telegram channel proved that there is no ship with that exact hulk of the Russian navy in the Black Sea at the moment. So the Ukrainian changed the narrative now to what you see here
>>548719.
>>815050That's my point
>>549256Nah, just low ground pressure
>>549056LMAO no
>>548984>not only vilifying our message of internationalism and breaking capitalist chains but it also seems to be made by a rightoid with it's apparent't seething against gay people It's blatantly apparent that it's an attack on liberal idpol you gaslighting radlib.
An anlysis over the Serbia vote in the UN general resoultion:
>Yesterday Serbia joined the UN resolution condemning the Russian special operation in Ukraine. You have been writing to me all morning and asking, “How is it? And what about brothers? Stop panicking. Let's figure it out.
>Vučić described Belgrade's position even during his address to the nation - we support the territorial integrity (of any country), but no sanctions. Yesterday he once again confirmed this both in word and deed. Of the 13 acts of the UN resolution, Serbia voted in favor of four. They did not vote for the rest, because they talked about sanctions against the Russian banking sector, the President of the Russian Federation, and the head of the Foreign Ministry.
>With all due respect to this wonderful organization, I cannot say that at this stage in the development of events, the UN resolution will have a special effect on anything. Explore the history of conflicts since the collapse of the USSR. Remember how Yugoslavia began to be ironed without the sanction of its Security Council at all. Her role has long become rather nominal - so, shake the test tubes. The world order is like this - and we didn't build it, by the way.
>We return to the Serbs. What would have changed if they hadn't voted yes? Ivica Dacic's phrase can now be reversed. “We are a great energy force and everything depends on what we say? We must think about our interests." And, unfortunately, it is. You must understand that for all the irrational Russophilia of the overwhelming majority of Serbs, the country's economy has long been tightly soldered into the conjuncture of the European market. Here is what the leader of the Serbian right once said to me in an interview, who certainly would gladly replace the “Western fetters” with a “Russian shield”:
“This is a balancing act between blackmailing the EU and Russia's fraternal attitude towards Serbia. He, unfortunately, apart from cultural and religious cooperation, does not yet have the necessary economic justification for the survival of the Serbian economy. Now almost 70% of our exports go to the EU. Serbia may simply not survive the new sanctions for the second time in a short historical period. If by expanding its presence, liberalizing legislation for the Serbs and completely opening markets for all Serbian goods, Russia “insures” us against deadly sanctions and threats from the West, for our part we will do our best as a reliable ally of the Russian people.” That was two years ago.
>I don't envy Vučić and his team at all. Every day it gets less and less to sit on two chairs: Kosovo is on the verge of joining NATO, the international community of pacifist hypocrites is openly calling for Belgrade to be punished for supporting Russia, elections are just around the corner.
>And the Serbs have already spilled their indignation over yesterday's decision on social networks. Don't even worry about it.
>>549364check'd
do you post on that russian 2ch site?
>>549364>>549363 (me)
Check'ed
Ah, good, welcome back.
>>5493662ch.hk? seems quite used, IMO.
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