No.577136
>>577134Nobody says that or looks like that
No.577138
>>577136Nobody is dumb enough to state their real, material reasons for being salty at periphery for standing up to the core openly, so I just help them along. You're welcome.
No.577142
>>577140I tried. Got yelled at for not being ideologically pure enough. "Red fash", "both sides", "nothing should change, because the replacement
might be exact same".
No.577144
>>577138I think we know at this point that these retards are most likely NAFOids getting buttmad about liquidated Ukronazis
Post more liquidated ukrops
(Seriously Spoiler your damn videos if there is going to be gore in them. Stop being retarded) No.577148
>>577146Hmm.
>>1500320>Not if the bourgeois victors against US imperialism just reproduce the same capitalist imperialism, which they are doing, with neocolonies, suppression of organized labor, expansive censorship/surveillance. You are peddling a vulgar pseudo-antiimperialism and it misleads you as well as others from the communist path.
Pretty much.
No.577152
>>577134>nooo, stop cheering for Western decline!Who isn't? The USA falling is great- but this war isn't going to bring overall Western Decline, especially since NATO got two new member states out of this.
>you are deviating from Marxist orthodoxy IN what way is this happening?
>Russia and China may be even worse!no one is saying this. Pointing out Russia's reactionary policies on its own citizens and economy isn't giving the US a pass.
>and I won't benefit!huh
>and might actually experience revolutionary conditions!If this was the case, we'd have a revolution by now.
>nooooooWho are you even quoting? A bunch of douche bags from reddit?
No.577154
>>577133Ayy Lmao let's fucking go Space Comrades lets light em up.
No.577155
>>577146>>577142Capitalist nations HAVE to exploit, every subsequent empire has to, you would know this fi you had even the most basic understanding of capital.
No.577157
>>577155Watch this, he'll call you an ultra for pointing out this simple fact.
No.577159
>>577136I look like this and say this
No.577161
has someone deepfaked zelensky or biden into the Downfall scene yet. you know the one. where he's shouting about steiner in the fuhrerbunker
No.577163
>>577157Literally even a basic understanding of history would show you this. Like why on earth would anyone think a nation won't be exploitative when given a chance? It is willfull ignorance.
No.577165
>>577161how is Steiners counter-attack coming along?
No.577167
>>577155you already got explained you are mixing up capitalism exploitation with imperialism, as a stage, not a policy, of capitalism.
No.577170
>>577167Imperialism in inextricably connected to capitalism, it quite literally cannot function without it as capital constantly needs more markets to grow, so why would one think that capital will just stop working according to its own logic?
No.577172
>>577170>so why would one think that capital will just stop working according to its own logic?because there are already states that moved from capitalism to mixed economies, or even socialism. did you stop reading right before the part that says that capitalism can move towards less exploitative structures in the ML theories?
No.577174
>>577172No nation on earth is socialist and capitalism by nature cannot become less exploitative, its need for more profit and growth necessitates more exploitation, this is not an opinion is is how capital empirically works, thinking otherwise is just purposefully being ignorant. read Capital Vol. 1
No.577179
>>577177At this point why do you even pretend to be a marxist? Like you're just a nationalist, like you yourself admitted that you don't even really care about the workers movement like what is the point of this inane charade?
No.577181
>>577179Is Stalin saying "Death to the German invaders" proof that he was a secret anti-communist nationalist all along?
No.577183
>>577152>but this war isn't going to bring overall Western Decline, especially since NATO got two new member states out of this. This war happened because NATO escalation, the RF did not "aid" NATO by invading Ukraine apropos of some opportunistic imperialist ambition. The RF is protecting their place in the new world order but to omit the US wanting to reassert their hegemony as the existential threat and main reason for the cold war partition is implicitly defending US hegemony.
>The USA falling is greatThis is why there is an Ukraine war, a cold war spreading and why the west is causing runaway consumer good inflation and disciplining their workforces and so on.
>>577152
>If this was the case, we'd have a revolution by now. This time there are no demsocs to bribe the west, they are rabid noliberals in all but name and the only thing they can mollify the public with is idpol and chauvinistic propaganda. Call it a wild guess but IMO the west is headed to revolution or open fascism.
No.577186
>>577179Death to America
Cry more NAFOid
No.577187
>>577181 no but molotov ribbentrop pact was >:(
just kidding just kidding just kidding i don't even wanna bait No.577189
there were plenty of problems with the feudal aristocracy, but their power was actually rooted in their monopolization of violence. they literally were trained in fighting better than the vast majority of the population, often led armies into battle, and often died in battle. Even in early modernity, nobles would often be found on the battlefield. Gustavus Adolphus took a bullet to the brain. The feudal aristocracy functioned as a glorified protection racket for the subsistence farmers in their realm. their historical function, in Europe at least, was to fill the regional and administrative power vacuums left by the collapse of the Roman empire. they were far from a pointless class, they had their time and place, and the bourgeoisie replaced them precisely when the contradictions of feudalism caused the feudal order to unravel. this is the entire point of a historical materialist analysis, not to demonize the ruling classes for being Le Bad Meanies, but to demonstrate how, why, and when their time is up.
No.577191
>>577186I genuinely just want to know WHY you pretend to be a marxist, like what is the rationale?
No.577193
>>577191You don't define what Marxism is, Kautskyite. Crazy that the western-chauvinists, those in favor of Nazi battalions, those who slam their keyboards for the defense of bourgeois puppet states and dream of smashing progressive countries challenging their sanguinary hegemony into dozens of fascist, corrupt, inept shards are who you label as "Marxist", whereas those who take a stand against the global domination of the 3rd world by the anglo empire are those who you greet with such malice and derision. You're just scum wearing a marxist-looking mask to hide vile defense of your bourgeoisie. Its that simple.
No.577196
>>577195Answer the question, why do you pretend to be a marxist, what is the rationale?
No.577199
>>577174>No nation on earth is socialist and capitalism by nature cannot become less exploitativeRead Lenin, you stupid ultra liberal.
State and revolution with you.
>>577176>only through revolutionchange of the ruling class, but of course!
>kautskyist.some very, very, very small sections of his theories were vindicated, but not this part. it requires a change of the ruling class, and the new one requires to openly say they want socialism and end capital exploitation.
No.577201
>>577193That anon literally admitted that he only cares about the US failing like what about that is marxist? Like nothing about these threads has anything to do with the working class, it's all just base nationalism.
No.577203
>>577199>Read Lenin, you stupid ultra liberal. State and revolution with you.Give me a quote where capitalism supposed becomes less exploitative
No.577207
Well what's the news on the battlefield? Have we gotten any updates to the situation of the counteroffensive I mean the Test Probing, shit fuck the test of the counteroffensive.
No.577209
>>577201What about the US failing is marxist?
Le heckin so true! In a world where Russia and China are overtly authoritarian neo-imperialist states without any actual remaining socialist economic policy, it makes sense for democratic socialists in the US to support a US-led unipolar order! True anti-establishment leftism is suppressed internally by both Moscow and Beijing, and the US provides the best hope for labour movements and an eventual democratic transition to socialism! Wow!
No.577211
>>577203>Give me a quote where capitalism supposed becomes less exploitative>The vulgar economists, including the bourgeois professors and “our” Tugan, constantly reproach the socialists with forgetting the inequality of people and with “dreaming” of eliminating this inequality. Such a reproach, as we see, only proves the extreme ignorance of the bourgeois ideologists.
>Marx not only most scrupulously takes account of the inevitable inequality of men, but he also takes into account the fact that the mere conversion of the means of production into the common property of the whole society (commonly called “socialism”) does not remove the defects of distribution and the inequality of "bourgeois laws" which continues to prevail so long as products are divided "according to the amount of labor performed". Continuing, Marx says:
>"But these defects are inevitable in the first phase of communist society as it is when it has just emerged, after prolonged birth pangs, from capitalist society. Law can never be higher than the economic structure of society and its cultural development conditioned thereby."
>And so, in the first phase of communist society (usually called socialism) "bourgeois law" is not abolished in its entirety, but only in part, only in proportion to the economic revolution so far attained, i.e., only in respect of the means of production. "Bourgeois law" recognizes them as the private property of individuals. Socialism converts them into common property. To that extent–and to that extent alone–"bourgeois law" disappears.READ SOME FUCKING THEORY, YOU SUCKER ULTRAhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/ch05.htm No.577215
Two threads of ultra bothsidism?
Dare I ask Counteroffensyiviv status?
No.577217
>>577209The focus is on the working class, not picking sides of capital since the working class suffers regardless of who is in charge.
>>577211Can you tell me how this is relevant to nations that both have massive corporations in them? And this isn't "capitalism becoming less exploitative" its the process of abolishing property which no nation of earth is doing
No.577219
>>577207they've gotten stuck, so the recurrent trolls repeat the Ichkteria and Russia=imperialist.
I am sure he's the b-ack-hmut status questioner that harassed this thread for months until effectively fell.
>>577215>counter-oink needs more wunderwaffen. No.577221
>>577213This cannot be just your autism, like it has to be something else, like what even causes someone to act this way?
No.577223
>>577155>BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY!Name Russia's equivalent of the United Fruit Company.
No.577229
>>577221Terminal imageboard addiction
No.577231
>>577223Gazprom, early last year russian death squads were sent to kazakhstan to gun down protestors in order to protect kazakh oil barons.
No.577234
>>577229Like i'm actually shocked, what what the fuck did their parents do to them
>>577227You're avoiding the question because you know you'd have to admit that you don't give a shit about the working class,
No.577236
>>577211Are you illiterate? In the section highlighted Lenin only is saying that communists don't seek to abolish bourgeois legality altogether all at once but firstly to abolish private property. Not only is this manifestly not the case in China or Russia where private property is in full swing and maintained by state violence, it is not in the slightest relevant to the question of capitalist states being able to become 'less exploitative' through internal means.
I'm really concerned about the level of marxist education and people's ability to parse marxist works if you're going to pull quotes that contradict your views with such gusto and misguided self-confidence.
No.577238
>>577217>Can you tell mestop deflecting, I am answered, now concede you were wrong.
>both have massive corporations in them<to the ultra, every nation is equally bad as the u.s.that's all the retarded argument that reeks in the post.
fucking retard.
No.577248
>>577238>stop deflecting, I am answered, now concede you were wrong.You haven't answered anything you just keep posting memes, you admitted that the working class is not what is important to you so WHY do you pretend to be a marxist, what is the rationale?
> to the ultra, every nation is equally bad as the u.s.This has nothing to do with "good" or "bad", this is knowing how capitalism and capitalist states function, that they MUST exploit
No.577250
>>577223Last time you did this you got your ass handed to you and subsequently moved the goal post. After enough bullying you, presumably, cried yourself to sleep.
No.577253
>>577240Keep avoiding the question i know it's the only way you can rationalise this
No.577255
>>577236>are youAre you?
the troll asked
>where capitalism supposed becomes less exploitativeI pointed out that the first stages of communism, socialism, the bourgeoisie law is not abolished.
> legalityIt's not alone legality, are you the illiterate?
Lenin explicitly ties the legal aspect to the means of production:
>only in proportion to the economic revolution so far attained, i.e., only in respect of the means of production. No.577257
>>577250I did research and saw my opponents were even more retarded than they first appeared. :^)
>imperialism is when you sell resources you extract from yourselfFucking imbecile.
No.577263
>>577248>you admitted that the working class is not what is important to you so WHY do you pretend to be a marxist,the troll is confusing people now, kek.
go to your reddit hole and go to sleep.
>This has nothing to do with "good" or "bad"for someone concerned about the exploitation of the working class, it seems you don't have the particular clear tags for it.
go fuck yourself, retard.
No.577265
>>577261>AMX-10RCcounteroffensive statuds
>not so wunderwaffen. No.577267
>>577231>>577243so it's the grillpill all over again?
fucking faggot hiding his namefag.
No.577269
>>577263>it seems you don't have the particular clear tags for it.Moralisation has no place in communism
>"The moment anyone started to talk to Marx about morality, he would roar with laughter.”- Karl Vörlander
>>577259I'm asking you a simple question that you flat out refuse to answer because you know you don't care about the working class, this is just entertainment for you
No.577271
>>577257>Russian monopoly-capitalist giant privatizing diamond mines in Africa is "when dey sell resourcez u extract frm yrself :)"Tankieflag posts: YLYL challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
No.577273
>>577267Any time someone brings up Russia putting down "Kazakhstani workers", it's Grillpill. Guaranteed.
No.577275
>>577269>Moralisation has no place in communismnow tell me other communists were weak to the CIA :v, you fucking grillpill.
No.577277
>>577275Incomprehensible sentence
No.577279
>>577277is it? are you ban evading?
tell me how some communists were weak and deserved to get killed by the cia.
No.577282
>>577271Alrosa extracts from Yakutia and Arkhangelsk, primarily. What the have in Angola is a joint venture.
Maybe you should actually read what you cite, instead of rushing to show Russian extraction companies sharing knowledge of building up means of production with other countries. Or building them electricity infrastructure.
No.577284
>>577279At no point did i say that your fucking freak
No.577286
>>577284yet, to you the u.s. is not bad, because
>Moralisation has no place in communismit's ok the u.s. is worst, because
moralism, lmao.
No.577288
>>577286there is no "good" or "bad" here, this is how capital naturally functions, is it "bad" if you bleed when you get a papercut?
No.577291
>>577183>This war happened because NATO escalation, the RF did not "aid" NATO by invading Ukraine apropos of some opportunistic imperialist ambition. Hasn't this war been going on since 2014 due to the CIA backed coup which overthrew the pro-Russian government? Russia's invasion into Ukraine past the borders of the DPR and LPR has only emboldended NATO. If we wanted NATO to go, there would be more of an international conflict as opposed to that of a war between two nations.
<inb4 china is aiding russiaChina is aiding russia economically, but hardly in a military sense.
>The RF is protecting their place in the new world order but to omit the US wanting to reassert their hegemony as the existential threat and main reason for the cold war partition is implicitly defending US hegemony.As i've said before, ad nauseum, just because the US falls, doesn't garuntee the overall death of NATO. There will be plenty of countries who would be willing to take NATOs place or at least co-opt its use. We all want NATO to go and the US to fall, but we're likely going to get neither as a result of this war. At best, the US may lose influence in Eastern Europe- but even if Ukraine was to lose- NATO and her member states are only likely to strengthen their resolve. Russia has no interest in ending capitalist hegemony, but rather protecting their own.
Unless we start seeing communist movements take the reigns and start providing people with a genuine alternative, we aren't going to see shit.
>This is why there is an Ukraine war, a cold war spreading and why the west is causing runaway consumer good inflation and disciplining their workforces and so on. Fair, but unlike the last cold war this isn't one of capitalism vs communism, but rather some belief of "democracy vs authoritarianism"
Secondly, the west also has the chance of embracing social-democratic policies as a means to maintain its economies. The Russian federation for instance started doing this- who's to say the West couldn't do this as well?
>America won't Possibly, but as we know, the west isn't just America now, ain't it?
>This time there are no demsocs to bribe the west, they are rabid noliberals in all but name and the only thing they can mollify the public with is idpol and chauvinistic propaganda. Call it a wild guess but IMO the west is headed to revolution or open fascism.This is certainly a possibility, but i've got more of a feeling it could also fall to neither. Crisis under capitalism doesn't necessarily mean everyone goes gun ho and kills eachother- the state clamp down and find ways to maintain its monopoly- if it must nationalise to maintain its capitalist MOP, it will do so. Australia has had a vast history of doing this
although to be fair our government was coup'd by the CIA, twice i may add No.577293
>gas station imperialism
>Russia imperializing my wallet, by wanting to get paid fairly for the resources they extract
No.577295
>>577288>>577288>there is no "good" or "bad" hereyet, you seem
too concerned asking people about being Marxist for real.
> why do you pretend to be a marxist, what is the rationale?when someone posts:
>Death to America>Cry more NAFOidyou are trapped in your own logical fallacies, little bitch. now gtfo and return to the glowhole you belong.
No.577297
>>577295>you seem too concerned asking people about being Marxist for realBecause i want to know WHY they pretend to be a marxist when they admitted that they do not care about the working class, like what is the rationale, it cannot be all just autism.
No.577301
>>577299>how isn't the fall of the uttermost reactionary anti-communist hegemon in the world not related to the working class?Because the invading nation is also reactionary and anti-communist and will exploit the working class like anyone else. The only winners of bourgeoisie war are the bourgeoisie and the only losers are the working class.
No.577303
>>577255Let's break the Lenin quote down for you, you clearly won't carefully re-read it yourself and I would like to help you and other anons reading to comprehend Lenin.
Lenin in this passage is is citing Marx's criticism of Lassale that under socialism (that is the first phase of communist society) everyone will receive an equal share of the product of labour, which Marx corrects saying that in Socialism there is still inequality as he who does not work nor shall he eat' and 'equal pay for equal work' mean that some who work harder than others will get more, there will still be this basic level on inequality.
Socialism does not elimiate all differences in wealth and inequality but it does elimate private ownership and the possibility of exploiting others.
Lenin expands that 'bourgeois law' has two elements, private property and regulator of allocating labour and product to members of society. Socialism eliminates the former but retains the latter (a defect and birthing pang according to Marx) so as to manage the transition to communism where inequality and injustice can gradually be eliminated altogether.
None of this has anything to do with a capitalist state becoming less exploitative. It is addressing the fact that after abolishing private property (and thereby achieving socialism) we won't immediately have workers having the full product of their labour. 'Bourgeois law' (sans private property) and relative inequality and injustice will still be neccessary to regulate distribution of work and product until communism can be achieved.
I reccomend carefully parsing whole chapters from State and Revolution or any other marxist work in the future to avoid confusion and drawing radically anti-marxist conclusions from misreadings of basic marxist precepts.
No.577305
>>577291*but rather some belief of "democracy vs authoritarianism" as a lot of western media likes to parrot
No.577308
>>577293Ahh, the DotP(?) of Angola inviting Russian international capital in to…
help exploit its resources!
I see, now you totally don't look like a clown anymore with those added qualifiers.
But Russia isn't already headway into capitalist imperialism already, you are so right in this! This Angolan exploration both exists… and doesn't. Angola is a bourgeois republic… and also a proletarian one!
This is how Marxism works.
No.577313
>>577219That would explain why the last two or so threads have been a constant bitch fest. Here I was coming to the thread to see what news there was only to be greeted with Russia is imperialists because x, y, and z, or runs off topic to talk about China for whatever fucking reason.
No.577315
>>577282>>577271Diamond mining is the biggest burgeois scam anyways. That mine pollutes and destroys, moves obscene amounts of rock for what can be easily grown in a lab.
Average people can't even tell diamonds from cheap imitations like cubic circonia.
No.577317
>>577311Answer the question, this is your thread so unless you want everyone here to clearly see that you have no argument or rationale and are just an autistic memefag then you will answer the question.
(Multi-Thread Sliding / Topic Diversion ; get your own thread) No.577328
>>577322You also don't care about the working class?
No.577333
>>577326So you're fine with being a autistic gremlin with no real thought, what a existence
No.577335
>>577331I do, that's why i don't side with capital
No.577339
>>577337Do you consider the working class an "irrelevant group"?
No.577346
>>577342I side with the working class who are and will be exploited by both sides of this conflict, the only solution is the working class associating itself with one another and overthrowing both. Anything else is a defeat for the working class
Since this thread is about news for ukraine then maybe it should have some news regarding eastern european strikes and labour actions, but that would actually mean that you care about the labour movement
No.577351
>>577349No i told you that i side with the working class
No.577353
>>577324Is Angola a DotP or even a People's Democracy: Y/N
No.577355
>>577353No, does it matter?
No.577359
>>577351then, glory to Russia for smashing, de-nazifying
literally one of their goals, the ukrainian nazi state.
No.577361
>>577355Oh so a bourgeois state invites a international capital in to exploit its natural resources?
No.577363
>>577357Doesn't matter, USSR aren't real communists, anyway. :^)
No.577365
>>577359>taking state rhetoric at face valueExcellent bit, i'm sure the denial of nord stream 2 had nothing to do with the invasion, tell me do you think that if russia wins that they won't exploit their working class?
No.577368
>>577361Ah, so we've reached a point of shitting on Africans for being bourgeois. Outstanding.
No.577373
>>577339Ah there you are
I was hoping to get a chance to tell you to read Bordiga and look into the operaismo
If you find anything useful to them in these so by all means share it with the Iranian oil workers
No.577375
>>577363TankL, condom for capital, betrayers of the working class, instrument of the bureaucracy to enrich themselves and continue the capitalist system the world over
TankL
No.577377
>>577373Funnily enough early this year the ICP was on the picket line at he portland sanitation strike and the workers were receptive to them so yeah workers engaged in class conflict are receptive to communism
No.577379
>>577339You
do know that "working class" isn't a nebulous entity, but people with their own opinions, right?
No.577382
>>577365>i'm sure the denial of nord stream 2 had nothing to do with the invasion>let's pretend ukrainian state didn't ramp up their violations of the minsk agreement weeks before the SMO, and let's pretend baerbock didn't greenlighted ukrainians to ramp up the violations in donbasI don't have the memory of a goldfish.
>tell me do you think that if russia wins that they won't exploit their working class?their state doesn't allow open promotion of nazism, unlike the u.s. and their banderite comprador state. tells you volumes of what sides to pick.
No.577384
>>577357some will say larp but Russian generals do love the Brezhnev era imho
No.577386
>>577379How many workers do you think are ok with being thrown into war for the sake of profit?
>>577382I'm not in defence of Ukraine just pointing out that the war as all war is about capital competition
>their state doesn't allow open promotion of nazism, unlike the u.s. and their banderite comprador state. tells you volumes of what sides to pick.I like how you avoided the question of if russian will exploit the working class
No.577388
>>577365NTA but what is happening here is
>That anon: destroying the Nazi sympathising Ukrainian state is good for both the working class in Ukraine and the world at large<You: YOU REALLY THINK THEY'RE DOING COMMUNIST REVOLUTION!?Now be honest, do you really not see the Strawman here that you're utilising? No one is confusing Russia for the USSR and no one thinks Russia is much different from other Bourgeois capitalist states, but the difference is a crucial one, the western bourgeois states have no problem with utilising Nazism or even instigating and empowering Nazism for their own purposes, that needs to be proven not to work or they could try it again.
No.577392
Is it true? Has the "prooobing" actually stopped because high losses?
No.577396
>>577386>out that the war as all war is about capital competitionRussia could have just invaded by 2014, then.
>I like how you avoided the question of if russian will exploit the working classI have my priorities very clear. remember to neck yourself tonight.
No.577399
>>577368Lmao, peak nu-/leftypol/
LET 👏🏾 BOC (Bourgeoisie of colour) 👏🏾 DEVELOP 👏🏾 PRODUCTIVE 👏🏾 FORCES👏🏾
No.577400
>>577386>invade to secure from NATO Neo-nazi fucks>get ten thousand sanctions slapped on>???>Profit!Yeah, I'm sure Russia wants that Salt in Soledar.
No.577402
>>577399Another day another theorylet screaming
>But I want my cashless, stateless society NOW!at underdeveloped nations
No.577405
>>577388>no one thinks Russia is much different from other Bourgeois capitalist statesMultiple people in these threads including OP don't think so
> but the difference is a crucial one, the western bourgeois states have no problem with utilising Nazism or even instigating and empowering Nazism for their own purposesSO the problem is not whether they exploit the working class but HOW they exploit the working class? Do you think it makes much different if a labour strike is broken up by russian nationalists or ukranian nazis?
>>577396>Russia could have just invaded by 2014, then.And ruin the profits of their oil stream to europe? They only invaded once the US monopolised the energy market of europe and cut them out, that is literally just two competitors fighting on the market with the working class paying the price
>I have my priorities very clearyeah and the working class isn't one of your priorities.
>>577400When capital cannot enter a market, it tries to force its way in, that is the definition of imeprialism.
No.577406
>>577402More like
>i want communist to support on the working class not the bourgeoisie No.577408
Holy fuck is this autistic chomo still posting? What is wrong with him
No.577410
>>577405>SO the problem is not whether they exploit the working class but HOW they exploit the working class?Yes, you'd have to be a retard to not understand that Nazism is the worst form of capitalist exploitation.
Are you really suggesting that anons should just be like
>Well is Ukraine going to have a communist revolution?>Is Russia going to have a communist revolution?<No? Well fuck them, I don't care if the Ukrainian working class end up Nazis, it's either my way or highway No.577412
>>577405>And ruin the profits of their oil stream to europe?and yet they ruin it,
HUH?
see, you are trapped again on your own logical fallacies.
>yeah and the working class isn't one of your priorities.really?
When this comrade shouts here
>>577186>Death to AmericaI shout too
>Death to americaand when he shouts
Cry more NAFOid
I shout cry more NAFObot
because I do care. you seem not concerned about the nazism that the u.s. promoted in ukraine, nor the nazism inside ukraine, so my guess is you the one, as usual, with westernoids (it was mentioned you are an iranian gusano, but also could be the grillpill) that doesn't care at all about the working class.
No.577414
>>577406If you weren't a theorylet, you'd understand why that involves purposely supporting bourgeois revolution in underdeveloped, colonial nations.
No.577416
>>577405>When capital cannot enter a market, it tries to force its way in, that is the definition of imeprialism.Are you going to provide evidence of Ukraine embargoing Russia in any way?
No.577418
>>577414>implying there is a single place on earth in [current year] that isn't doesn't already have capitalism as the dominant mode of production and hasn't already had a bourgeois democratic revolution and a large industrial or post-industrial urban proletariat. Some people really are stuck on menshevik stageism for ever huh
No.577420
>>577408He's a theorylet and motivated by revolutionary aesthetics, if it's the anon I think he is, he point blank refuses to accept geopolitics is any different from organising unions.
No.577423
>>577418Yeah, I'm sure Djibouti is ripe for full automated luxury communism, how silly of me.
Many of these nations are reduced to just selling simple commodities to the western corporations that own the mines. wells and farms. There's little industry that is possessed by the local bourgeoisie, there's little industry at all, there's nothing for the proletariat to seize.
No.577427
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH0fhjKfGOIHow does Ukraine still have Soviet tanks/equipment left anyways? I swear if they don't run out before the end of this year, I'm gonna be mad. It'll be entertaining to see liberals left unable to deny Ukrainian losses when we see mostly Western tanks burning in footage.
No.577429
>>577410>Yes, you'd have to be a retard to not understand that Nazism is the worst form of capitalist exploitation.And all capitalist nations resort to reactionary tactics when they're in crisis so what difference does it make to support a capitalist state that will act the same way when capital is threatened. This has already happened before in the 20th century when the popular front did nothing to stop the rise of fascism. The only solution is the working class associating and rising up
I'm suggesting that anons should focus on the working class not the bourgeoisie who exploit the working class
>>577412> you seem not concerned about the nazism that the u.s. promoted in ukraine, nor the nazism inside ukraineI am concerned about it but i take issue with so called "communists" supporting the bourgeoisie. Every country is using it as an opportunity to suppress their working class, stoke militarism, and secure the ruling class's interests, but anti-imperialism isn't about choosing the smaller empire. The task of handling the Nazi issue or the Taliban issue should be done via the working class of the region with assistance from other parts of the working class abroad, not from US invading or Russia invading.
>>577414See here No.1502691 for why that is nonsensical
>>577416The decertification of nord stream 2
>>577420> he point blank refuses to accept geopolitics is any different from organising unionsplease tell me how critical support for russia or iran or the PRC is as effective and beneficial to the working class as actual labour organising that directly fights capital itself.
>>577425Sudan, one of the least developed nations on earth has a larger urbanised populace than england did when the communist manifesto was published, the point is to empower the working class not the bourgeoisie
No.577431
>>577418>Menshevik>Not knowing it's literally Leninism to support a Bourgeois Revolution as a staging ground for Proletarian revolution soon afterTheorylet
No.577433
>>577414See here >>1502691
No.577435
>>577429Lmao it is the anon I thought it was
No.577438
>>577431read the theory. there are clearly outlined parameters within which the right to self-determination and devlopment of nations is an appropriate demand for communists to make. Lenin describes these parameters in The Socialist Revolution and the Right of Nations to Self-Determination, where he writes:
> First, the advanced capitalist countries of Western Europe and the United States of America. <In these countries the bourgeois, progressive, national movements came to an end long ago.> Every one of these “great” nations oppresses other nations in the colonies and within its own country. The tasks of the proletariat of these ruling nations are the same as those of the proletariat in England in the nineteenth century in relation to Ireland.>Secondly, Eastern Europe: Austria, the Balkans and particularly Russia. Here it was the twentieth century that <particularly developed the bourgeois-democratic national movements and intensified the national struggle.> The tasks of the proletariat in these countries — in regard to the <consummation of their bourgeois-democratic reformation>, as well as in regard to assisting the socialist revolution in other countries — cannot be achieved unless it champions <the right of nations to self-determination>. In this connection the most difficult but most important task is to merge the class struggle of the workers in the oppressing nations with the class struggle of the workers in the oppressed nations.>Thirdly, the semi-colonial countries, like China, Persia, Turkey, and all the colonies, which have a combined population amounting to a billion. In these countries the bourgeois-democratic movements have either hardly begun, or are far from having been completed. Socialists must not only demand the unconditional and immediate liberation of the colonies without compensation —and this demand in its political expression< signifies nothing more nor less than the recognition of the right to self-determination> — but must render determined support to the more revolutionary elements in the bourgeois-democratic movements for national liberation in these countries and assist their rebellion—and if need be, their revolutionary war—against the imperialist powers that oppress them.The support for the self-determination of nations is essentially bourgeois in content, and forms a mere prerequisite to the communist reorganisation of society. In countries which have already undergone national-bourgeois revolutions (as i every nation on earth in the modern day), such a demand is entirely superfluous. Communists fight for this demand in countries that require it in order for the class struggle to develop more fully; but they do not remain within its confines. That is to say, they use the national question as a lever with which to pose the question of class power and property, as a springboard from which to enact the communist programme that will supersede national distinctions.
As Marx writes:
>While the democratic petty bourgeois want to bring the revolution to an end as quickly as possible, achieving at most the aims already mentioned, <it is our interest and our task to make the revolution permanent until all the more or less propertied classes have been driven from their ruling positions, until the proletariat has conquered state power and until the association of the proletarians has progressed sufficiently far – not only in one country but in all the leading countries of the world> – that competition between the proletarians of these countries ceases and at least the decisive forces of production are concentrated in the hands of the workers.For communists, the support of these nations in national liberation is never a goal in itself, but merely a means for the development of class antagonism between proletariat and bourgeoisie and the seizure of political power by the proletariat. It makes no sense to employ this means today, when the overwhelming majority of nations have already undergone some form of bourgeois-national revolution.
As Lenin puts it elsewhere:
> The epoch of bourgeois-democratic revolutions in Western, continental Europe embraces a fairly definite period, approximately between 1789 and 1871. This was precisely the period of national movements and the creation of national states. When this period drew to a close, Western Europe had been transformed into a settled system of bourgeois states, which, as a general rule, were nationally uniform states. <Therefore, to seek the right to self-determination in the programmes of West-European socialists at this time of day is to betray one’s ignorance of the ABC of Marxism.>
>In Eastern Europe and Asia the period of bourgeois-democratic revolutions did not begin until 1905. The revolutions in Russia, Persia, Turkey and China, the Balkan wars—such is the chain of world events of our period in our “Orient”. And only a blind man could fail to see in this chain of events the awakening of a whole series of bourgeois-democratic national movements which strive to create nationally independent and nationally uniform states. It is precisely and solely because Russia and the neighbouring countries are passing through this period that we must have a clause in our programme on the right of nations to self-determination.The first paragraph now describes the situation in pretty much every region of the world. There exists a 'settled system of bourgeois states' across the entire world. People like you make plenty of hay out of this whole 'support for weaker nations' to justify the basest nationalism. You fail to see that this is not some transhistorical right posited by principles of eternal justice, but a tactical demand posed by the communist movement in backwards and oppressed countries - e.g. Russia of the early 1900s. Nor is it an end in itself, so that communism becomes identical with nationalism. It is merely an expedient, a tactical adjustment of the communist movement to the uneven levels of development found in different countries.
Today, even the 'colonies' have largely undergone bourgeois-national revolutions, possessing (at least nominally) political independence while remaining in the de facto grip of the most economically powerful countries. This is an unavoidable reality of life under capitalism: some nations rise to the top, and others are trodden underfoot. The only way out of this ruthless competition is the revolution of the proletariat - a revolution that, thanks to the international character of the proletariat, must be international itself.
No.577439
>>577429>i take issue with so called "communists" supporting the bourgeoisiestfu ultra, Lenin supported bourgeoisie across the world that were less reactionary than the more backward imperial core of his time, from China, Turkey, to India, and many others.
No.577441
>>577429>The decertification of nord stream 2How does invading Ukraine give Russia access to Germany?
No.577446
>>577438This was already addressed in the last thread
No.577448
>>577441It doesn't but it gives them access to more capital, which is what capitalist nations fight for when they try to deal with falling profit
No.577450
>>577446By people wilfully denying what capitalism is and arguing for a "equal" share of capital which is nonsensical since that's not how capitalism works
No.577453
>>577448So is Russia forcing its way into a market, or does it actually want the Donbas Basin?
No.577456
>>577448>but it gives them access to more capitalLMAO, surely with the sanctions they received more capital, from the west.
>>577443see what? none of that diminishes the point I argued.
No.577458
>>577453Both as both give it more capital at the expense of their competitors and vice verse
>>577456It was either wage war or stay neutral and slowly lose out as their biggest money maker (their oil connection) was cut off
And it does diminish your point since you don't know why those bourgeoisie revolutions were supported and why it makes no sense to do so now
No.577460
>>577438Are you American? Only Americans would unironically use sarcastic quotes when describing the global south as colonies, at best they have semi-colonial governments that exist purely as security for western corporate interests in a given nation. The wealthy found in those nations are not the bourgeoisie, what means of productions do exist are owned by the international bourgeoisie, the wealthy are mercenaries who organise the exploitation of their own nation by foreign interests as a direct monetary transaction.
No.577462
>>577458So Ukraine being a red line for NATO expansion and Russia security concerns are what?
No.577464
>>577462Secondary to the wants of capital, they play a factor but profit is the cause and purpose of all war
>>577460>The wealthy found in those nations are not the bourgeoisieLmao
No.577466
>>577450Incorrect framing of the responses, it seems your opinion is literally "if rich people exist, then it's capitalist and ripe for socialist revolution" when as I said to you many threads ago now, there's a difference between the Bourgeoise existing and a state having a dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie.
No.577468
>>577464>but profit is the cause and purpose of all warWell, you certainly read theory, and you can repeat it, but you don't understand it, nor are you capable of looking at real world data.
No.577470
>>577466Those nations have a dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie as political power is held by the Bourgeoisie and is used to secure their interests.
No.577472
>>577468And real world data supports this, russia didn't invade once azon was created, it invaded when its capital was cut off
No.577474
>>577291>Russia's invasion into Ukraine past the borders of the DPR and LPR has only emboldended NATOTe way I read the Ukraine crisis is that the US was well aware of the conflict taking over Ukraine would create and it just has come the time to provoke the final stages of it, the invasion, in order to partition the European economies for themselves in this overt declaration of cold war. Both sides had been preparing for the eventual partition and economic warfare.
>If we wanted NATO to go, there would be more of an international conflict as opposed to that of a war between two nations. <inb4 china is aiding russia>China is aiding russia economically, but hardly in a military sense. China is the main reason why this is happening, their economic power, capitalist or not, is a competition that the USA cannot tolerate. Russia India and China happen to be in the same camp not because they are an allied front against imperialism on ideological bases (especially turboneoliberal BJP India lol) but because the US/NATO ambitions of reasserting US hegemony is an existential threat. the goal is reversing history to the 90s and that requires nothing short of collapsing the whole economic sphere of BRICS. They have favourable trade as happens with others leaning towards BRICS, but the main appeal IMO is that the winning conditions for the US is military backed protectionism and neocolonialism, while BRICS wins by continuing with liberalized trade.
It may be that domestic bourgeoisie subverting western imperialism for more favorable trade conditions ( or to avoid war) is selling the rope they'll hang from, or it may not. I agree the left needs to pick up the role of anti imperialism, but, well…I feel like some part of the "western" left is resentful that it played no role in the development of this crisis and as a result they want to declare it heretical, throw the baby out with the bathwater to claim protagonism at risk of playing into NATO's hand.
>Fair, but unlike the last cold war this isn't one of capitalism vs communism, but rather some belief of "democracy vs authoritarianism" I mean, yeah if anything such flimsy framing make's it harder to do propaganda for protectionism against the "authoritarian" "not real capitalism". In the previous cold war thre was a credible argument that there would be a drastic change on the table if the enemy were to win. That the socialists had a genuinely different worldview which was alien to most people. But now it's the west who is breaking with decades liberalism and globalization, they are the change, and it cannot be made the argument that these breaks with decades of policy and propaganda benefit anybody but the absolute richest. This is IMO why it's not incidental to Ukraine that NATO is trying to resume from the last cold war propaganda. I think they have nothing else that would resonate with decades of "harm reduction/human rights/democracy" and other excuses for imperialism that turning history around and claiming a continuity from the last cold war narratives about the mythical evil commies, now pouncing from the shadows of history.
>Secondly, the west also has the chance of embracing social-democratic policies as a means to maintain its economies. The Russian federation for instance started doing this- who's to say the West couldn't do this as well? They could, but again wild guess, if they are forcing the cold war partition it's because economic warfare doesn't cut it anymore. And once that's the case every use of hard coercion becomes an argument to go to the side that offers favorable trade rather than worse deals at gunpoint. And all of this needs funding. The more war is needed to keep imperialism in check, the less profitable and the more rebellious "provinces" feel the need to get out of reach. More exploitation is needed to make up for increased costs. Previously, the takeover of the old colonies made up for that, but now it seems the reverse is happening.
Last cold war the national bourgeoisie had an easy choice, but this time I think , not so much. Liberalism is doing them great. BRICS doesn't seem like they could win a situation in which trade needs to be warranted by military force against NATO, so at least in the case of China it seems to me they just plan to make themselves indispensable to global trade as a safeguard against isolation, make allies of the foreign bourgeoisie and let the US empire fail to break even as they escalate militarily.
Ideally socialists would take the chance and become the anti-imperialists with the economic backing of China like the USSR kept AES afloat. But if they don't then I think China is perfectly content to chug along while the rest of the world becomes another neoliberal hellscape tbh. But before that there is probably so many decades of dramatic world events that could change everything.
No.577476
>>577458>you don't know why those bourgeoisie revolutionsdo you?
or did you simply copy and pasted without giving a second thought?
you mix up here
>>577438 demands for more socialism vs what Lenin wrote here
>Does that mean, then, that the materialist West has hopelessly decayed and that light shines only from the mystic, religious East? No, quite the opposite. It means that the East has definitely taken the Western path, that new hundreds of millions of people will from now on share in the struggle for the ideals which the West has already worked out for itself. What has decayed is the Western bourgeoisie, which is already confronted by its grave-digger, the proletariat. But in Asia there is still a bourgeoisie capable of championing sincere, militant, consistent democracy, a worthy comrade of France’s great men of the Enlightenment and great leaders of the close of the eighteenth century.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1912/jul/15.htmwhich is the simple election between two different stages of capitalist states: The one less reactionary before the more reactionary one.
You are a pseudoleftist. gtfo to the poop hole you came from.
>It was either wage wa or stay neutral and slowly lose out as their biggest money maker (their oil connection) was cut offit was asked how invading ukraine gave Russia access to Germany, you deflect into
>gives them access to more capitalthen deflects my comment on
sanctions will give them more capital, saying that nonsense. that's a nonsequitur, you didn't answer how it gave more access to germany markets, nor how it gained more capital, thus making your whole argument about imperialism a flawed one.
No.577478
>>577464>>577470Lmao all you want, you can even kek for all I care, bourgeoisie is not equivalent to just rich people for the simple fact there were rich people under feudalism that weren't the bourgeoise.
In the same way the feudal lord was made rich governing the land the monarch entrusted them with, the governments and wealthy of many global south nations get direct payment for protecting the interests of the international bourgeoise from the local population and exploiting the workers on behalf of international corporations. To frame this as a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie is a half-truth, it's a dictatorship of the international bourgeoisie in such semi-colonial nations.
No.577480
>>577472Nord Stream 2 got blown up on Sept. 26th, 2022. The certification was halted on Feb. 22nd, in response to Russia already being cross at Ukraine for breaking ceasefire for almost a week. And you're retarded.
No.577482
>>577429>y critical supportAllow me
Russia
Because the more Russia scares the imperialist core the less likely the imperialist core is to start a third global conflagration and less war is an unalloyed good for the working man and woman
China
Easy even if one is an ultra and refuses to acknowledge China's current socialism one can at least wager that the CPC will hit the communism button before becoming a hegemonic imperialist if for no other reason than that communism is a more stable system than hegemonic imperialism
Iran
That's a tough one ummm fundamentally to the extent I do it"s because the realistic alternative to the current regime is what the burgers did to Libya and this won't change until the greater satan' s back is broken
No.577486
>>577480>The certification was halted on Feb. 22ndeven better, it was never given out. Nothing was haltet, the Greens came in power before and just said "nope" without any good reason
No.577488
>>577429>Sudan, one of the least developed nations on earth has a larger urbanised populace than england did when the communist manifesto was published, the point is to empower the working class not the bourgeoisieYou keep bringing this up but this doesn't matter, at all. Next to contemporary countries Sudan is objectively a colonized nation which follows the African model of selling raw resources to the West in order to maintain a service economy for the middle class. It is virtually impossible to have a revolution there because there are no independent productive forces, the West can just take its toys and go, killing millions through starvation and then say it was because gommunism doesn't work. That's why bourgeois national liberation and building local productive forces are still relevant to global south nations.
No.577490
>>577209>Russia and China are overtly authoritarian neo-imperialist states and this is the hidden agenda behind bickering about Russia being imperialist rather than simply another capitalist, they want to extend this argument to say that China is not even socialist when the US inevitably uses Taiwan as a battering ram
No.577492
>>577490>hiddenKind of obvious, really. Why should they accept a loss, if the rising powers aren't socialist (according to them)? Pointless bickering, really. We don't decide anything here.
No.577494
>>577492Thing is, Russia's war is just or unjust depending on what perspective you see it from, it's pretty unjust if one limit's their perspective to just Ukraine Vs Russia, but when you expand that to NATO Vs Russia then actually the Nord Stream pipeline symbolises why this war was just. NATO definitely has imperialistic intent, blowing up Nord Stream is just one of many examples of Washington and London trying to stifle the Russian economy to somehow 'prove' that Russia cannot expect fair trading conditions for while they remain independent and not subservient to American and London interests.
The heart bleeds for other nations subjected to this because they generally don't have militaries or nuclear weapons to resist this, but all of a sudden when a nation has the military to fight back and does so, then the hearts do not bleed, then it's both sides are bad. No doubt Russia will enjoy the Soviet built industry in Eastern Ukraine, but similar to the Soviet annexation of the Baltic States, other more aggressive nations are making moves in this direction and to refuse to play the game and lower yourself to that level based on "morality" then worse will come out of it. Hitler wasn't going to be better for the Baltic States, Kissinger was a monster throughout the cold war and I think Nuland needs to be hung, drawn and quartered
No.577496
>>577492We do in at least a small way
Years ago I used to write commentary on the margins of a newspaper then leave it on a train and the way those talking points made their way around was impressive and far more than I could have imagined when I started doing it
/leftypol/ is definitely ''far'" more influential than my special edition free newspapers and those newspapers definitely had an impressive impact
Hearing one of my talking points from a stranger a week later things like that
No.577498
>>577494>all of a sudden when a nation has the military to fight back and does so, then the hearts do not bleed, then it's both sides are badChristianity and its consequences have been a disaster for humanity and left-wing thought. Martyr and loser worship should cease. Permanently.
Grillpill openly admitted that while he condemned Ukronazis terrorizing Donbas, he also condemned Russian invasion to stop it.
No.577502
<Uneven economic and political development is an absolute law of capitalism. Hence, the victory of socialism is possible first in several or even in one capitalist country alone. After expropriating the capitalists and organising their own socialist production, the victorious proletariat of that country will arise against the rest of the world—the capitalist world—attracting to its cause the oppressed classes of other countries, stirring uprisings in those countries against the capitalists, and in case of need using even armed force against the exploiting classes and their states. The political form of a society wherein the proletariat is victorious in overthrowing the bourgeoisie will be a democratic republic, which will more and more concentrate the forces of the proletariat of a given nation or nations, in the struggle against states that have not yet gone over to socialism. The abolition of classes is impossible without a dictatorship of the oppressed class, of the proletariat. A free union of nations in socialism is impossible without a more or less prolonged and stubborn struggle of the socialist republics against the backward states.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/aug/23.htm
<The revolutionary character of a national movement under the conditions of imperialist oppression does not necessarily presuppose the existence of proletarian elements in the movement, the existence of a revolutionary or a republican programme of the movement, the existence of a democratic basis of the movement. The struggle that the Emir of Afghanistan is waging for the independence of Afghanistan is objectively a revolutionary struggle, despite the monarchist views of the Emir and his associates, for it weakens, disintegrates and undermines imperialism; whereas the struggle waged by such "desperate" democrats and "Socialists," "revolutionaries" and republicans as, for example, Kerensky and Tsereteli, Renaudel and Scheidemann, Chernov and Dan, Henderson and Clynes, during the imperialist war was a reactionary struggle, for its results was the embellishment, the strengthening, the victory, of imperialism. For the same reasons, the struggle that the Egyptians merchants and bourgeois intellectuals are waging for the independence of Egypt is objectively a revolutionary struggle, despite the bourgeois origin and bourgeois title of the leaders of Egyptian national movement, despite the fact that they are opposed to socialism; whereas the struggle that the British "Labour" Government is waging to preserve Egypt's dependent position is for the same reason a reactionary struggle, despite the proletarian origin and the proletarian title of the members of the government, despite the fact that they are "for" socialism. There is no need to mention the national movement in other, larger, colonial and dependent countries, such as India and China, every step of which along the road to liberation, even if it runs counter to the demands of formal democracy, is a steam-hammer blow at imperialism, i.e., is undoubtedly a revolutionary step.https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1924/foundations-leninism/ch06.htmthe reason MLs "support" these countries is because we take a viewpoint on the general balance sheet against imperialism.
Ie. an analysis of their historic movement and their effect of global imperialism.
And not from a static snapshot of some "formal point of progress" which you and libs generally do
No.577506
>>577502This has all been explained to the anon before, but like most Third Worldists, his expectation for Communists is to only care about union efforts and militias directly fighting their local government in the global south, he starts accusing us of being unpure when we consider the geopolitical ramifications that come from any revolution and discuss opinions on how to protect revolution on the geopolitical stage, like not trying to rush and short-circuit historically necessary sociopolitical development.
Anon wants it to be literally just you shoot third world porky (or reform their exploitation solely though unionisation efforts) and redistribute their bank accounts and Communism has been achieved people, live happily ever after
>But what if the international bourgeoisie come back for their property<I SAID THEY LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER STOP SUPPORTING THE BOURGEOISIE No.577508
>>577335>i side with Nazis because i don't side with NazisLiberals, ladies and gentlemen
No.577512
>>577510Eh tbh why would prisoners be in a trench? I think they just got caught off guard, either way if shooting unarmed soldiers is what Ukraine supporters think is based, then they're just demonstrating what people already know, they don't care about fighting and winning they just enjoy killing.
No.577515
>Israel resorting to giving Nazis tanks
>Nazis resorting to using Israeli tanks
You can't make this shit up, there is no way libs can compare this war to WW2 because clearly for all intents and purposes, in the western liberal mind that shit never happened. It has been completely forgotten.
No.577518
>>577515I have a 900IQ take on this but can't share it because leftypols mind would implode from not being able to handle it.
No.577520
>>577518Give warning then spoiler
No.577524
He was doing it for free fucking lmao
No.577525
>>577518Nah go on, I'm a big boy
No.577527
>>577518The Mossad sabotaged the tanks and they will break down mid combat in order to speed up a Russian victory.
No.577537
We're so back (it's over)
No.577539
>>577537And so it begins (it never even started)
No.577542
🇷🇺⚔️🇺🇦 Pyatikhatki update according to Archangel Spetznaz
"According to the forces of the unit of the 429th regiment, which includes the Storm-Ossetia battalion, the enemy was driven out of the settlement of Pyatikhatki, the settlement is under the control of the Russian Armed Forces.
The enemy evacuation groups cannot approach the wounded due to heavy artillery fire."
No.577550
>>577544Ukraine on the way to becoming a cyberpunk corporate state.
No.577553
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1670649154601713664The counteroffensyiv has been further delayed, nothing to see here
No.577555
>>577542>PyatikhatkiAgain? Is that 5th time in a week?
No.577558
>>577544>411bn to rebuild>300+bn in IMF debt already>there was a statement from an US military official that ALL weapon shipments will have to be paid for by Ukraine tooThis little maneuver will cost us 2000% debt-to-gdp ratio
No.577562
>>577553>Ukraine stops offesyiv to re-evaluate tacticsBrave and stunning
>Russia stops offensives and re-evaluates tacticsWeak and laughable
No.577565
>>577553Lmao. Ukraine flags in the comments saying the Kyiv Independent is wrong or saying "wait for the F-16s!".
No.577574
>>577568>Ukraine stalling>Natives btfoing BurgerreichWe're so back
No.577577
>>577565>muh F-16sRetards don't realize F-16s are the contemporary of the MiG-29, and will get blown out of the sky just as easily by Russian layered AD.
No.577581
>>577571>There are yesterdays when counteroffensives happen and todays when counteroffensives are temporarily paused - Leniniyvi
No.577584
>>577574Cherokees have captured Kiev.
No.577590
A COUNTEROFFENSYIV JUST FLEW OVER MY HOUSE
No.577595
>>577590A second offensyiv just hit the defensive lines.
No.577598
>>577590>>577592its not even an offensyiv its a test remember
<A TEST FLEW OVER MY HOUSE No.577601
People need to get over the old way of doing Counteroffensyivs, today is the age of counteroffensyiv 3.0, minting NFTs for ownership for drone-grenade-drop videos is the safest and most efficient way to conduct counteroffensyivs and one day when the metaverse has been fully realised, the banderbucks cryptocurrency people will have amassed from minting these NFTs means Ukraine will be able to simply purchase Russia in virtual reality which we're all going to care about than real reality, Putin and Russia will be left with primitive dirt and water, they won't be allowed into the 24/7 Blockchain driven casino based Greater Virtual Ukraine will be.
No.577603
>>577595Ten counteroffensyivs went out onto mines; one got blown up and then there were nine.
Nine counteroffensyivs arrived very late; one got Kalibrated and then there were eight.
Eight counteroffensyivs had swastikas on chevrons; they joined Bandera and then there were seven.
Seven counteroffensyivs of mobilized hicks; they ran into the Wagners and then there were six.
Six counteroffensyivs took Leopards for a drive; the Lancets came flying and then there were five…
No.577606
Counteroffensyiv outcome?
No.577611
On the third day of offensiyv, Bandera gave to me
>Three dead divisions
>Four knackered leopards
>12 NAFOids crying
No.577616
TLDR on the latest waves throwing themselves into the meatgrinder of this thread plz. Anyone make any good arguments? the thread is comprehensively shitted up
No.577618
>>577616>TLDR on the latest waves throwing themselves into the meatgrinder of this thread plz. kek.
No.577622
>>577616Good arguments for what?
No.577625
>>577616The Ultra Battalion has launched a counteroffensyiv using the latest in NAFO-supplied technology such as "muh Chechnya" and "China isn't socialist", successfully capturing two threads. However, they took heavy losses to the banhammer and had to
retreat pause to reconsider tactics
No.577628
>TLDR because I'm just too serious and stoic for gallows humour
>Were there any actual good arguments concerning the war suitable for an intelligent gentleman like myself?
Oh fuck off, this is still an imageboard, if you want unironic attempts at analysis and understanding of the anarchy of inter-capitalist warfare you've got r/Ukraine
No.577631
>reactionary country annexes southern part of some third world shithole
<Holy shit guys socialism achieved!
No.577636
>>577616Counterarguments? It's just endlessly repeating "both sides are bad. Don't you know both sides are bad"
Confirmed to be caused by brain problems
No.577639
>>577631Reactionary to what?
No.577642
>>577633Lmao just schizophrenia now, or a conscious decision to cuck their own brains out of fear of wrongthink
No.577645
I hate ziggas but am immensely enjoying the Western cope over the counteroffensyiv. For the duration of the event, I am happy to declare a truce with the ziggas to laugh at the Kursk 2.0 farce. /chug/fags should still kill themselves, though.
No.577647
>>577645WTF is a chug and why do you dumb fags keep talking about? Is it like your new Twitter or Reddit where you anons 'definitely don't' use it but apparently know all the memes and content and so on from it and talk about it all day?
No.577651
>>577647/chug/ is comfy happening in ukraine general, the /pol/ pro-russian ukraine thread
No.577655
>>577645>I hate ziggasWhy?
No.577658
>>577625thanks anon, this is the reporting I need
No.577661
>>577647No I lurk there. Which is why it's easy to spot when some /pol/ consensus cracker is trying to slip in some super based posts.
No.577666
>>577510>weird video thoughweird behavior from the Russians that got shot. They seemed to just run into fire
No.577672
>>577655Because Russians are not genetically multipolar, nor do I think the left needs to fellate Dugin or Coach Red Pill to make Ukraine and NATO look bad. Ziggas have consistently run into a wall of bad argumentation and their only saving grace is that NAFOids are more retarded which is what they then plaster all over themselves like a badge of honor.
Ziggas are so fucking stupid that they think criticism of themselves means you just spit upon the Russian troops in the trenches and even the soldiers who were at Stalingrad. Each zigga believes themselves to be the reincarnation of Lenin. It is really fucking annoying. I am not necessarily criticizing Russia or even the USSR, I am talking shit on your teenage bird brains that mistakes materialism for your own badly researched talking points.
No.577675
>>577672 (me)
But I take it back, we can talk shit after the counteroffensyiv. Some of you ziggas are alright, and won't have to be liquidated.
No.577679
>>577616>TLDR on the latest waves throwing themselves into the meatgrinder of this thread plz. Anyone make any good arguments? the thread is comprehensively shitted upNot really. It's as you can expect. There are two options to oppose multipolarity. You can push to use this war to create an equivalency between east and west given enough global development, which is being rejected. Our position sits between this ultra shit and the liberal-imperialist one which argues developed nations are progressive.
Almost always the argument will be some derivative of the idea global capitalism has advanced enough to create equivalency between east and west.
No.577682
>>577666The unarmed dudes could be rushing for where they left their guns. But the last guy looks really sus. Weird gun (Thompson?), civilian clothes, large beard (RAF doesn't like beards unless it's Chechens, at least I don't think I've seen any troops with beards, it's Ukrainians who love their viking larp beards), crumples weirdly after being shot point blank with a rifle round etc.
No.577685
>>577672Okay, tbqh from my perspective that's not really applicable to most "ziggas" but what I do see a lot of is Anons shitting up these threads with "both side"ism and strawmans insisting the critical support for Russia ITT is through confusing it for the USSR.
No.577690
>>577672I've never seen anyone itt give a shit about Coach Red Pill or any right-wing celebs except maybe pointing out how the former is an example of Ukraine cracking down on opposition right after he was arrested (and rightly so, after all he wasn't arrested for being a rightoid but for criticizing the Ukrainian government)
No.577692
Does anyone have that story of the stupid Polack filth who got gifted a rocket launcher by ukes then blowed himself up in the filth station last year? I don't speak Polack and refuse to translate into it.
Thanks.
>>577669>>577651>Comfy<A literal warThey really are psychos with no theory of the word outside of an abstract false-reality made to entertain them through a screen, aren't they?
No.577696
>>577685Because anons like Intbriganon have decent theory but the truth is that most people don't give a shit about that and are supporting Russia for their own particular reasons which are as diverse as 90s anti-imperialists supporting Serbian militias alongside hardcore anti-Muslim Christian nationalists in the West who didnt see NATO incursion into the former Yugoslavia but instead a vile Bosniak jihad against Based Christianity. Any breakup a la Yugoslavia or the USSR causes this, which is why it's important for leftists to not take up the stupid genocidal, violent brain melting rhetoric of the right that specifically a handful of anons here love to do while screaming that HOHOL isn't a slur because reasons.
No.577698
>>577685>Okay, tbqh from my perspective that's not really applicable to most "ziggas"Are you quite literally blind? a big portion of their posting for almost a whole ass year is just what some bot farm with shitty dog jpegs as pfps are doing on twitter?
No.577700
>>577692>They really are psychos with no theory of the word outside of an abstract false-reality made to entertain them through a screen, aren't they?I come to the conclusion of their psychosis via a different way, they have basically destroyed their brains from /pol/ babyspeak so now the way they delineate similar threads from each other all comes down to like, "comfy", "cringe", "redpilled", and shit like that. Their ability to use language is more or less destroyed.
No.577703
>>577694Ukraine's cyber democracy will solve this, you can just report corruption on your iPhone
No.577705
>>577696>>577698Most of the geopolitical discussion ITT is instigated by Anons who just want to have an argument about RUSSIA BAD, like everyone has heard that take, it's not interesting to explore.
No.577710
>>577705Yea. because some random twitter bot farm and gore videos are super interesting and meaningful to hyper-fixate on, right?!?!
Idiots. lmao.
No.577712
>>577710Again, goreposting massively spikes when Ukraine has suffered some kind of failure.
No.577716
Three entire threads of the same argument between the same anons going around in circles and posting the same memes over and over. Are there any developments in the war worth mentioning that I should know about or is this just /autism/ general?
No.577720
>>577716>any developments?Counteroffensyiv failed miserably
No.577722
https://t.me/sitreports/10492⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦🎯 Impressive Fresh Front Footage⚡️
🎬 The artillery of the Southern troop grouping destroys the Ukronazis in the #Svetlodarsk area (close to #Gorlovka, #Donetsk direction).
📜 NgP raZVedka (
https://t.me/negumanitarnaya_pomosch_Z/8183); 19 Jun 2023, 16:02
t.me/sitreports /@negumanitarnaya_pomosch_Z/#vid/
Join SITREP🔺Map Reports - Top Videos - Analyses
No.577723
>>577694 (me)
It's said quickly but this fraud, what they got caught doing, was at the time of 2016 almost 6% of the country's GDP according to the World Bank(in 2015 $). That'd be as if in Germany they discovered a $200bn hole going into the pockets of some well connected individuals, for scale.
According to Wikipedia, this fraud cost roughly 1/5 of the entire Ukrainian budget for 2015,for scale.
No.577725
At what point do we start calling Saudi dissidents gusanos
No.577737
>>577727Suggests Russia is not a cakewalk, he compares the US invasion of Iraq to Nazi Germany's invasion of Poland, that's pretty based.
No.577742
>>577731They'd never get the Americans to agree to it, so they'd never be able to present a plan to Moscow for implementing the idea.
No.577744
>>577742Who cares what Americans think? It says largest world players, led by Ukraine.
No.577748
>>577729>>577733You know it's coming.
No.577750
>>577735On all levels but physical Ukraine is winning.
No.577752
>>577694so the billionaire doesn't even pay for his own nazis to destabilize europe, normal bank customers pay for them. beautiful
No.577754
>>577727uncycle the thread. it's over
No.577756
>>577754it's already uncycled
No.577764
>>577744NATO needs to apply to Ukraine
No.577777
>>577775Russian Motherfucking assholes?
No.577781
>>577775why do they have a Spanish flag?
No.577789
>>577768damn, the nostalgia got me good. iirc you could even play as china, right?
No.577798
>>577785>participation of embassy staff in memorial events in honour of Russians who took part in the army of fascist Franco.cringe alert
No.577801
>>577796Бля параша рэп лол
No.577805
>>577191These threads are just 3-4 epic
power users calling every other poster a glowie. I wouldn't think about it too hard
No.577808
>>577805>implying PRC poster is a chinese glowieA glowie from an actually existing socialist state on our humble Capybara appreciation forum?! oh wonderful happy days are here
Oh my god I haven't mopped the floors or cleaned the dishes
Whatever will they think?
No.577811
>>577805Awwwww I’m sorry. Did people not have their minds blown by your muh both sides?
No.577815
>>577696>hardcore anti-Muslim Christian nationalists in the WestThey supported Croatian fascists. See the Doriot Brigade.
No.577818
>oryx is rage-quitting because Ukraine lost all their Soviet equipment and he can’t count their losses as Russian anymore
LMAO
No.577820
>>577516>>577522>>577818ay, kek. good.
and yes, that's the real reason, he can't disguise ukrainian loses as Russia's so easily anymore.
>>577739>>577740sus again they disappeared, and the IA-generated video they posted, was weirder.
>>577808Isn't Iranian?
>1503832 No.577823
>>577796ha-ha lancet goes vuuuuush-booom
No.577826
>>577690The Duginist thing is the most obvious indicator that most zigga haters are just westerners with libbrain. Literally nobody except for Western liberals or Ukrainian fascists care about Doogin
No.577835
>>577830Yeah, I posted this agent z
advisor treating Africans with contempt, almost rolling the n-word on them.
No.577838
>>577834what the fuck is that 2nd image
No.577845
>>577844link to the thread blease
No.577849
>>577844Really activates their
almonds atoms
>>577845>7/16/16 No.577851
>>577845fuck I hyperfocused on the amount of (you)'s
No.577860
>>577675Who are you to "liquidate" me? Are you even russian?
No.577866
>>577830This makes me glad I remembered this site exists.
No.577880
>>577844Of course it's a Brit, we solely operate on the misapprehension literally nothing can touch us other than perhaps immigrants, which is unfortunate considering just how hard we all get fucked up the arse by our own government.
No.577883
>>577877Our father
who art Bandera
Glory to Ukraine
No.577884
>>577868How did you find this video of me?!
No.577892
>>577877least disgusting orthodox church
No.577896
>>577892Rehabbing nazi collaborators is pretty low even for a church
No.577900
>>577896Pretty normal for a church tbh
No.577903
>>577871But she has a stronger jaw than the dudes here probably
No.577906
<Slavyangrad:
>The Russian Army has advanced 2 km in the direction of Kupyansk. A fierce battle is underway, the enemy is retreating. Our troops are almost on the outskirts of the city.
No.577909
>The German Armed Forces have only about 20,000 fragmentation artillery shells left, reports Der Spiegel with reference to the documents of the Ministry of Defense, prepared in order to convince the budget committee of the necessity of urgent purchases.
>By 2031, Germany needs to stockpile about 230,000 shells to meet NATO goals and have enough artillery to withstand 30 days of heavy fighting.
>Estonian intelligence reports that the Ukrainian offensive will begin in seven (7) days.
1 more week
No.577911
>“There is no point in waiting until the fall; Ukraine will not receive F-16s this year, which means that the counterattack will have to be carried out in this format. Ukraine will receive Western fighters not earlier than 2024.” - Reznikov.
>"Not before [New Year will Ukraine get fighter jets]. And this is symbolic. Because at last year's Christmas and New Year's Eve I sent a letter to Santa Claus, where I asked for help in the interests of Ukrainian children, so that they could study, go to schools and kindergartens. I asked for certain things from Santa: artillery, shells, tanks, etc."
No.577913
>>577896the orthodox church does whatever the state wants them to do
No.577919
>>577906All the movement here makes me wonder if they are gonna do some crazy shit around Kharkov like some are saying (but I think this is a bad idea)
No.577925
If Putin can make yield the odious powers of England and America, while making thus precarious the capitalist world balance, long live the butcher Putin who works in spite of himself to create the conditions of the proletarian world revolution
No.577930
>>577830E-e-educate t-t-these p-proles.
t. Sabocat
No.577936
>>577909>The German Armed Forces have only about 20,000 fragmentation artillery shells leftPoland could probably invade and take over Germany by now.
No.577942
I am seeing people talking about the US doing a SMO in Mexico. Is that just a meme or there's something going on over there
No.577945
>>577939To be fair, apparently Russia was overly afraid of the counteroffensyiv seeing as they only needed the screening lines after all
No.577950
>>577942AMLO is a heckin autocrat!
No.577956
https://archive.is/9WsnrThe cope and denial from Western MSM keeps breaking down.
No.577962
>>577856Low key worried all these pol threads and Reddit posts around the time of great historical events of the past decade will disappear like tears in the rains thanks to archives disappearing from lack of care and support or IPO fuckery.
No.577970
>>577959>by David FrumI remember googling that name, he's the
extremely proud speechwriter for Bush Jr who claims authorship of the "Axis of Evil" bit.
This came out right after one of two things, either the formal order to make Lithium a nationalized industry or the announcement of big reforms coming to the very lax regulation around the mining industry.Either way a Porky reaction.
No.577977
You can tell how well the offensive is going purely by how much anti-Russia seething there is in this thread, it's kinda impressive
No.577980
>>577977Still, though. Are they so attuned to American decline and Ukrainian (lack of) progress that finely?
No.577984
>>577977Just remembering the absolute shitstorm that was
>Missile hits polski traktor>NATO and Russia both say it was Ukraine>Ukraine says it's Russia>NAFOids assume Ukraine is telling the truth and NATO are just cucked by Nuclear War No.577987
russia is losing 20km EVERY DAY. at this rate ukraine will be at moscow in christmas
No.577990
>>577980Yeah, because they're constantly rebreathing hopium from each other, they're so aware of every possible positive suggested outcome from everything Ukraine does that when none of them happen, they immediately know they need to furiously cope
No.577997
>>577994You see, when a tank boy and a MRAP girl like each other very much…
No.578000
PANIK!
Also ackshually that was a T-72B
No.578005
>>577997The MBrapper got the tank acting up.
No.578013
>>577997>>578005tank sex is the hardest sex.
No.578017
>>577831Once more the US is proving their Accusations to other countries as confessions, for they are truly the stereotypical evil Totalitarian Regime that will do something like this.
No.578021
THE FAILING COUNTEROFFENSIVE AND THE PEACE THAT COULD HAVE BEEN
With each passing day, it’s becoming clear that the Ukrainian counteroffensive is failing to achieve any of its originally stated objectives. Recall: the Biden administration’s bet was that the counteroffensive would roll back Russian territorial gains, cut the land bridge to Crimea, and force Russia to the negotiating table. That is almost certainly not going to happen. On the contrary, a stalemate is more likely, or even that Russia will take more territory and win the war, as Mearsheimer has predicted.
What are Biden’s options now? Either escalate or admit defeat. In preparation for NATO’s Vilnius Summit, Blinken has been floating a proposal to give “Israel status” to Ukraine. This means multi-year security guarantees including weapons, ammunition and money that would continue even if Biden loses the next election.
This is not what the American people signed up for. Many Americans supported the $100+ billion in appropriations for Ukraine believing it was a one-time deal to reverse Russian territorial gains. If they had been told that it was the basis for an annual appropriation in a new Forever War, they would have preferred an alternative, especially if they had known that one was available.
THE PEACE THAT COULD HAVE BEEN
New evidence is emerging that a peace deal was achievable at the beginning of the war. At a recent meeting with the African delegation, Putin showed the draft of an outline or preliminary agreement signed by the Ukrainian delegation at Istanbul in April 2022. It provided that Russia would pull back to pre-war lines if Ukraine would agree not to join NATO (but Ukraine could receive security guarantees from the West).
This document has not been publicly released yet, but no one seriously contests that it exists. The only dispute is over what happened subsequently; Ukraine (via reporting in Reuters) contends the deal fell apart. However, the availability of a deal based on Ukrainian Neutrality is consistent with previous comments from Naftali Bennett, who said a deal was attainable but rejected by the West.
Why would the West do this? Ukrainska Pravda (UP), a pro-Ukraine publication, reported in May 2022:
“As soon as the Ukrainian negotiators and Abramovich/Medinsky [the Russian negotiators], following the outcome of Istanbul, had agreed on the structure of a future possible agreement in general terms, UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson appeared in Kyiv almost without warning. "Johnson brought two simple messages to Kyiv. The first is that Putin is a war criminal; he should be pressured, not negotiated with. And the second is that even if Ukraine is ready to sign some agreements on guarantees with Putin, they are not. We can sign (an agreement) with you (Ukraine), but not with him. Anyway, he will screw everyone over", is how one of Zelenskyy's close associates summed up the essence of Johnson's visit.”
https://pravda.com.ua/eng/articles/2022/05/5/7344096/Johnson (who must have been speaking not just for himself but for the Western alliance) wanted to pressure Putin, not make peace, and promised new weapons systems if Ukraine would keep fighting.
At the time of UP’s article, Ukraine appeared to be doing well, so UP portrayed Zelensky’s decision to accept Johnson’s offer as a smart gamble. Now, in hindsight, it looks like a disaster.
AFGHANISTAN REDUX?
I know some of you may find it hard to believe that the realities on the ground are so at odds with the mainstream media's coverage. But it’s worth recalling that the American public was assured for two decades that we were winning in Afghanistan. All of that reporting was revealed as a pack of lies when the Afghan army that we were supposedly “standing up” collapsed within a matter of weeks. At that point, the media stopped reporting on Afghanistan, just like it had stopped reporting on Iraq, instead of holding anyone accountable.
Unfortunately, it looks like we're headed for a similar kind of outcome in Ukraine. The only question is when, and how long Biden will be able to perpetuate a proxy war of choice that could have easily been avoided.
https://twitter.com/DavidSacks/status/1670923154443882496 No.578024
>>577939You'd think they'd at least switch out the author.
No.578027
>>577939you wouldn't believe it, but that guy possibly earn more than $100k a year doing that bullshit. I wouldn't even be surprised if he ghostwrite his articles to a lame-ass writer earning 10 times less, while he goes to forums, assists to live streams, etc.
No.578041
>>578039I hate to be like this but I really do hate Youtube thumbnails, with the large Read Arrows or Circles or both, and some clicky baity ass title and some lame ass person in the frame.
No.578055
>>578045it's funny how they act now the west is not a trustworthy ally, one year later, and hundreds of thousands of their men are in a grave.
and the west is bickering, the cracks getting larger
>>578039look at this blogger having some second throughts about the counter-oink (vidrel) same blogger from here
>>578030 (me)
No.578059
>>578052>The RF Armed Forces are actively advancing in the Liman and Kupyansk directions - Ukraine Deputy Def Min Anna Malyar.Uh-oh.
No.578063
>>577987who are you quoting
No.578074
>>578068Putin took my Cherry.
No.578079
>>578068ziggerbros… Putin gone too far this time
No.578083
>>578068he sure owned those libs guiz
No.578090
>>578083I do not think UNIAN is a reputable source. Just a couple articles contain so much fucking seething, it's like battery acid.
>so-called "milcor"s No.578099
>>578083>he sure owned those libs guizNo joke, in the bigger picture he really has tho
No.578105
>>578102They have gone AFK.
No.578116
>>578102Posted feet pictures, how ever shall we recover bruhs?
No.578118
Are americans actually massing troops on Mexican border?
No.578127
>>578052>🇨🇳🇹🇼🇺🇸 Blinken in China: "We do not support Taiwan independence."They always say shit like this in front of the Chinese and it means nothing, there’s always some kind of asterisk. They’re still going to provide weapons to ROC military and embolden the separatists. CPC would be wise to never trust America’s word on Taiwan
No.578131
>>578124kek
>>578127and that's why they want to jail trump
the fucker was no filter, so they can't play the goodies while stabbing China, stabbing Russia, stabbing Iran, stabbing Venezuela, stabbing Cuba, stabbing N.K., and so on.
No.578134
>>578127They should have had him arrested immediately after saying that for selling guns in China (by their own admittance) without permission from the Chinese government
No.578143
>>578138Not their first time to say stuff like that. When CPC say this kind of stuff then you know something serious is on the way. Last time in 2018 they warned to prepare for a black swan event, next thing you know you have riots in HK
No.578149
New NAFO cope just dropped
https://nitter.net/TrentTelenko/status/1670971803987058688#m>the PSU storm Shadow Strike hit a RuAF theater level ammo storage depot>we are talking about a week to 10 days for the Russians in the South to run out of artillery ammoOh, scratch that, we're just recycling the same cope from months ago. But this time it will be different
>RuAF troops that would have survived to fill 3rd line defenses won't, simply because the artillery ammo reserve in the Rykove (Partyzany) depot no longer exists.>All of this is to plan, the plan of Ukraine's General Staff.>The so-called Sorvorkin line is - straight up - a Potemkin Village defensive designed to convince Russian propaganda media audiences, clueless Western journalists, politicians, and other susceptible suckers.>>578127yeah CPC knows how the anglos operate, that pretty much everything they say is a deception
>>578112Dangerously close to saying the quiet part out loud there – just wtf is NATO if it needs to "guard against" its own members
No.578154
>>578149A prison for Europeans.
NATO has always done everything it could to stifle anti-US movements and sentiments, allowing for a greater integration of the continent into its imperialist system. Europe does reap benefits, but only because it doesn't pose a threat to America.
No.578161
Apparently there are doritos flying over Kiev completely unopposed right now
No.578165
What is the analysis for that trench video between Russia and Ukraine? That made Russians look incompetent getting rekt like that
No.578170
>>578165If real, it's probably a trench raid and not a serious offensive maneuver. It is released so that retards (perhaps you are one) like those who post on /k/ can live in their fantasy world where ukronazis are not getting btfo for a little bit longer
No.578174
>>578166the funny thing is that the actual NATO commanders are not even that much smarter than this guy
No.578179
>>578174Nazis weren't smart enough to understand Soviet mobile defence either
No.578194
>>578186I remember seeing ukrainians selling Russian uniforms on ebay early on in the war. Fucking corrupt retards probably sold all their captured shit for $5 and now they can't make their movies anymore
No.578209
>>577916Thats a fucking awful way to die.
No.578217
>>578214One retarded question after another.
No.578229
>>578224>Not even the same anonAre you proud of yourself?
No.578237
>>578202What even flew past it?
No.578241
>>578194What led you to this conclusion?
That video is Ukrainian SOF in complete gear and NATO .556 blasting absolutely underequipped Russians of which only one had an AK 74 with iron sights.
No.578246
>>578241And the rest were equipped with shovels?
No.578250
>>578241/k/opers really are so funny. Like how does your brain balance all the negative information about the counteroffensyiv with one video lmao
No.578255
>>578116and they're not even nice feet! WTF is up with those nails? they look like chewed fingernails - how do you chew on your toenails?!
No.578260
>>578241>underequipped Russians In almost perfectly excavated trench walls, do you have any idea of the logistics those require? Those are not short-term combat emplacements, they're heavy duty, and you're not However their construction makes no sense. It looks like a fucking ant-hive, completely unlike actual Russian trench doctrine, which tends to go for a ladder trench patter or in isolated cases, a line with foxholes and fighting positions. This looks like neither
>AK74 with iron sightsLMAO the AK-74M was army standard by the 1990s, let alone some AKM mock up. This reeks of fakery.
No.578265
>>578260i also think its fake. Doesnt really matter in the end tho
No.578274
>>578270>Trent Telenko - -ko being a very frequent ending to Ukrainian family names >Chicagoboyz-dot-net history blogger>himars t-shirtPerfection
No.578279
>>1504366
Bitch get your ass off the bread, it needs to be given to the people!
No.578282
>>578206why did you crop out the roll?!
No.578286
>>578241Soldiers aren't on station 24/7 even on the frontlines, sometimes they need to sleep or eat and don't always keep their guns nearby if they've been rotated to the 2nd line, such an attack as shown is probably SOF sneaking to this 2nd line just to attack soldiers off guard, some might consider that dishonourable but then honourable fighting is reserved for those who are winning.
No.578293
>>578286Old Nazi tactic from WW2 included paratrOOOPING over enemy positions so that tanks can roll over easier. Go google up German paratroopers equipment, by the way, they couldn't even hold guns in their hands when descending and had their equipment dropped separately to them - all because fat overlord of Nazi airforces had been bribed by the Swedes for military contracts.
ANYWAY, the tactic is essentially the same as when you ford a river - you want forward operation units to secure a bridgehead.
No.578298
>>578032Podolyak is right. The West should stop arming Ukraine.
No.578303
>>578282My intention was to show that people from opposing sides both attack trenches and soldiers often get confused, panic, and die. There's hundreds, if not thousands, of clips at this point of similar things happening. I was hoping that
>>578233>>578224>>578214would understand, but it seems to have flown over their head.
>guyz can someone provide an analysis on why people die in a war??? No.578316
>>578237A jar of tomatoes. Gramma has a mean pitch.
No.578320
>>578021Also Zelenskyy issued a presidential decree later in September 2022, after Russia made the annexation official, that makes peace negotiations impossible. IDK if he got told Putin would be deposed or whatever, but now he has it in writing that he is personally responsible for any lack of of negotiated settlement, and implicitly for the consequences. It's the official posture now and he is the one to sign on it.
So it's gonna be awkward when this has to be retracted or superseded or the post-war accounting begins:
https://www.president.gov.ua/documents/6792022-44249 No.578325
So,uhh, is Budanov actually dead or something? I heard Ziggers quoting RIA Novosti saying that Budanov lost his brain, but Ukro sources also posted a video with Budanov recently. What's the truth here? I'm interested since Budanov along with Zaluzhny are reportedly prepared personally by NATO to be some sort of Plan B in case the Zelenskii government collapses
No.578328
>>578325Hopefully. I really hate that Nazi dweeb
No.578332
>>578325Post the video, Russian telegram probably already debunked that it's old video. Also, Ukraine post an AI generated image of Budanov, which was weird.
No.578336
>>578325Another weird detail to this arc is that the USA official narrative, in it's retelling of the NordStream bombings personally blames Zaluzhny as the man in charge while claiming it was done behind the back of Zelenskyy.
No.578344
>>578340Yeah they're definitely dead if they're conveniently also now to blame for Nord Stream, Russia has already retaliated to Nord Stream then :^)
No.578351
Interesting to hear Radio War Nerd's business and media analysis guru lay out his Ukraine narrative unchallenged on the latest episode. He seemed like a voice of reason early in the conflict but now thinks Russian to Ukrainian casualties are 2:1 and that Zelensky is a great guy doing a great job. Also thinks a moderate might take over the public role from Putin next year, maybe the Moscow mayor.
No.578357
>>578351just listenedto the same and thought the same. i think hes a staunch pro-UKR dude, but he did put out the facts before his opinion.
Imho, he was still very dire about Ukraines situation, just more public about who he prefers as well.
No.578366
>>578357>Imho, he was still very dire about Ukraines situation,for sure, I thought his economic analysis the last time he spoke on the pod was insightful. Saying that Russian:Ukrainian casualties are 2:1 makes me question the rest of his analysis. He did say that he's not a military guy I guess.
No.578370
>>578357did you listen to Yasha Levine's pod with the WSJ journalist btw?
No.578374
>>578366yeah also presenting the retreat from Karhoiv like a gigantic fight where - and so on and so on
pretty weak from Ben Aris. Hes still incredible on the economic side but not on the strategical one. We will see tho - if there is another counteroffice, a real 100s vs 100 tanks fight I give him some slack.
I do always find it interesting when Dolan gives a hint to something regarding Ukraine. Cause I think hes much more 'based' there. I like Ames as a person and a podcaster but man has this man drank the koolaid.
>>578370no but I assume its even worse?
No.578378
imho the mood in Russia proper does go a bit sour. Theyre tired as is Europe. Russians are unlike Americans not often this "hell yeah kill millions if one yankee makes it out" type of genocidal. That just said additionally.
No.578381
>>577970>This came out right after one of two things, either the formal order to make Lithium a nationalized industry or the announcement of big reforms coming to the very lax regulation around the mining industry.Either way a Porky reaction.I think he made moves to increase national ownership and control of the energy industry around the same time too. Coincidentally many countries globally are making similar moves, at exactly the same time. There is also some dedollarization of the limited variety observed.
No.578385
>>578325On all levels, except physical, he is alive.
No.578389
>>578381>I think he made moves to increase national ownership and control of the energy industry around the same time tooI found it super interesting how over the last 2 years, the "common sense" that everything must be private changed to a kind of neo-kenyesian one, although there are still some of the old undertones
No.578394
>>578389They want resources to be in the hands of national porkies. And companies also to be theirs. Porkies in the West ran into a brickwall of being unable to expand in Africa, Asia and LatAm due to total Chinese comparative advantage
No.578399
>>578394>Porkies in the West ran into a brickwall of being unable to expand in Africa, Asia and LatAm due to total Chinese comparative advantage*so they have to intesify their competition in the already conquered markets, including their own
No.578403
>>578394we dont have any resources so that one is a bummer. DDR did make everythoing of coal when USSr basically gave us market prices - like NK does these days.
That little uranium Saxony has does not make anybody fat.
No.578408
>>578370>did you listen to Yasha LevineWhy would anyone listen to that fool?
No.578413
>>578374>I like Ames as a person and a podcaster but man has this man drank the koolaid.Same, I just think being "wrong" (even though his analysis was very good!) and subsequently getting "owned" on Twitter shellshocked him. Touching grass, as they say, might help him clear his mind, but additionally the war, death and destruction itself in a part of the world he deeply cares about, seems to weigh extra heavy on him and make him more gullible to Western propaganda.
No.578424
>>578421He is one with the force now.
No.578428
>>578421Which is more cringe, this or his Bandera statue?
No.578432
>>578421Who gives a shit. The Nazis used Hugo Boss uniforms for the same reason Zaluzhny used fucking baby yoda patches, to make people(westoids) soyface over their army. That is the essense of capitalist warfare, puerile and vapid spectacle. None of that shit about le fatherland, race or religion. Perhaps if modern armies keep wearing star wars and harry potter patches rightoids would stop idolizing war and start seeing it as what it truly is; cynical bourgeois powerplays
No.578437
>>578432>The Nazis used Hugo Boss uniformsHow do people still fall for this made-up nonsense?
>stop idolizing war and start seeing it as what it truly is; cynical bourgeois powerplaysWhat if worker and peasant armies wage war?
No.578441
>>578362>914 laughing smileysDid I miss something? I thought Shariy and his crowd are firmly pro-ukraine, although anti-Poroshenko before the war
No.578452
>>578449rest n peace
poor her. Pretty damn unlucky
No.578456
>>578374>no but I assume its even worse?Surprisingly worse. They seem so glad to get their guests that they are afriad to push back in the slightest. A longtime WSJ Russia correspondent pushing a maximalist Ukrainian Bucha narrative without any inquiry from Ames or Dolan.
No.578461
>>578456I meant from Levine and his wife, not Ames + Dolan lel
No.578470
>>578466Maybe the Ukrops have unlocked the secrets of Juche Necromancy.
No.578475
>>578466that's literally a sex doll. not even his arm or hands position nor his gaze change between photos, even as everyone else alters their pose and look at the camera
No.578479
>>578413he sure has got the sharp end of the stick from all sides. reportedly run out of Russia by business interests that didn't like his work and run out of the US media by the Kochs who really didn't like his work
No.578484
>>578475Calm down Ivan, we're getting into literal Q territory here. Let's go back to the more reasonable explanation that Budanov's injury wasn't that bad
No.578492
>>578449The wages of bourgeois warmongering. Imagine losing your husband for some sklerotic oligarch like Putin. And the worst part about this is that you can't complain because the enemy somehow manages to be worse than Putin
No.578496
>>578484budanov can totally be alive and that photo can still be a fucking sex doll, i never made any claim as to his health status
No.578501
>>578484Braindead and being puppeteered via mind-link to a dog head in a jar.
No.578505
>>578484show us him in a different pose first, I genuinally want to see more defintivie proof if he is alive or not because that one looks staged as fuck (he looks exactly the same in both photos, including pose)
No.578510
>>578449this uygha tryna groom russian girls on fbi.gov
No.578518
>>578505Maybe his nerves got fried by Russian missiles. Or PTSD. Much more obvious explanation, Budanov is probably still recovering before his NATO handlers dragged his ass for a photo op
No.578522
>>578515If two flamethrowers fight, who wins?
No.578526
>>578466bigger versions of those pictures
this is either a doll or a vegetable
No.578530
>>578466Seriously though, there was a photo of him with his buddy who held a similar pose. I think Budanov is literally trying an alpha pose, or some such shit from incel/dating advice sites. Also, despite the month of so of a very hot weather he is very untanned, so it adds to the effect
No.578535
>>578530but he literally doesn't move an inch. in the second one, his eyes are even still looking at where the camera would have been in the previous photo, how does some weird incel pose explain that?
No.578539
>>578526Is it a thing where if slavs gain any weight it goes straight to their face first
No.578543
>>578535A touch of brain damage
No.578555
>>578539the chubby cheeks help them survive the winter
No.578559
>>578535His alpha stance is strong. He has like 18 hours a day to practice it in his cabinet
No.578563
>>578559Not smiling while everyone else is is pretty chad and slav
No.578568
>>578539plus straight to the tits for women, it's absurd. orthopedic doctors in eastern europe must seriously be busy from all the back pain that is caused by this, not joking
No.578572
>>578568Big tits are gross tbh
No.578576
>>578563He is a person behind assassinating Dugina, Tatarsky, random "collaborators", incursions into Belgorod region and such. He is a perfect depiction of an online-addicted incel who got into high echelons of power. This shit is EXACTLY what you would expect, isn't it?
No.578580
>>578551maybe you can find an even smaller and more pixelated photo so we can speculate even harder, lol
No.578584
>>578568>plus straight to the tits for women, it's absurd.you have my full and undivided attention
No.578589
>>578572>calling common body features grossngl dude, your relationship to women seems unhealthy. i don't mean that in a way that one has to love big tits or whatever, no, everybody has preferences. i'm talking generally here. the comments you have made about women in the course of the /ukraine/ threads were weird, time and time again. i genuinely hope you find peace and love in this regard, because your contributions were greatly appreciated otherwise
No.578593
>>578576>incelwhat does this word even mean anymore? does nobody remember that the first self-described incel was a lonely woman?
No.578605
>>578597inflated lips are also gross
don't cancel me
No.578609
>>578601This image looks fake as fuck.
No.578613
>>578572Do you mean like actual big tits or like fat tits
No.578617
look honestly if you dont like big titties, large boobas, big wanga bangas, massive hooters take a hike
No.578630
>>578593It means a person obsessed with sex and relationships but getting none of them due to personality, psychological state and/or disabilities/plain luck
No.578635
>>578539I suffer from the same problem thanks to Pollock genes.
No.578640
https://tass.ru/obschestvo/18070911Moscow is to build a wharf. Finally getting a river fleet back, huh
No.578643
>>578617What does Marx say about big titties?
No.578649
>>578572>Big tits are gross tbhFriendship ended with IntBrig Anon. Now Ushankanon is my best friend.
No.578659
>>578572Well, to be fair, big fat tits are less aestethically pleasing than small cute breasts that let rest of the figure to show off. I still prefer large badonkers, though
No.578674
>>578664I saw another comparison to Ulysses S. Grant's 1864-65 campaign to crush Lee's army. Burgers have literally zero legit comparisons to make because the most obvious one (Kursk 1943) doesn't bode well for the Ukrainians, aside from the whole Nazi wunderwaffen technology.
No.578679
>>578674How long has it been since Westerners praised Javelin or HIMARS? Did Leopards appear recently? Have Patriot memes even started?
But Russian Artillery remains.
No.578685
>>578572holy based don't let these porn addicted coomer retards attack you for this intbrigade anon you are 100% correct
No.578690
>>578316damn gramma is everywhere. someday will down another drone with tomato-pickle jar.
No.578695
>>578601that looked so weird. like IA generated. is that from the video saying at the end "trust the plan" (or something similar)? where he blinks so forced?
I haven't seen the video, just read the comments about the weirdness.
No.578701
>>578679We don't even know Russian artillery's name. How do you call your newborn kid to honor Russian artillery piece?
No.578711
What happened with le bayraktars btw?
No.578716
>>578701Artillery pieces are named after flowers. (2S1 Carnation, 2S3 Acacia, 2S4 Tulip, 2S5 Hyacinth, 2S7 Peony) Rocket artillery is named after bad weather. (BM-21 Hailstorm, BM-27 Hurricane, BM-30 Tornado, TOS-1A Sunburn)
No.578721
>>578711Russia shot them all down.
No.578726
>>578716Hyacinth really goes hard for an artillery name based on flowers
No.578732
>>578572Depends. If they're hanging like testicules, it's gross, but if they're firm, it's ok.
No.578742
>>578737>Jewish news that makes sense>pulpit>IsraelBruh.
No.578748
>>578737we may need to start making excuses for the
lack of terror
No.578754
>>578732>firmsiliconcuck detected
No.578769
You know I've talked a lot of shit on Russia's military but they really have done a mighty decent job the past weeks, maybe even better than at Kherson. You don't have to be a zigga to be glad at the real time abolishing of NATO superiority.
No.578777
>>578769Keep land, lose men, you get NATObux. Keep men, lose land, you make a nerd on an imageboard mad.
No.578782
>>578748could someone edit the severed head as the pol ACK
No.578787
>>578773Technology built for profit vs. Technology built for utility
No.578792
>>578777You forgot that you can also lose lots of men and lots of land like with the Kiev offensive.
No.578797
>>578792t. Kiev Independent
No.578803
>>578792Kiev was surrendered as per the peace treaty which Putin has demonstrated. Ukrops broke the treaty immediately
No.578809
>>578773Western miltech is made primarily to police and reduce attrition damage, and few considerations are made for when the enemy actually shoots back, Soviet miltech is for being used, being abused, and being lost. Offensive tech also seems to be developing faster than defensive.
Managing to drag the West into a conventional war means they are about to eat shit hard.
No.578819
>>578815those are some serious boobies
No.578824
>>578815Total.Weebgroid.Death
No.578829
>>578711Erdogan turns out to be a more based retard than everyone gives him credit for
No.578839
>>578803>>578797Nein, I will be vindicated. But ironically it is a bit similar to the Kiev fiasco in 1941 which led to a better defense of Moscow. The Russians did manage to regroup and take Sievierodonetsk and Lysychansk.
No.578845
>>578839>But ironically it is a bit similar to the Kiev fiasco in 1941what fiasco? Nazis kept attacking the least defended targets over and over, pushing the frontline, but losing millions in the process. As a result of 1941's "fiascos" Nazis have lost 4 million men dead and injured to Soviets' 1 million.
Hell, just yesterday I was reading memoirs of a guy who went through getting encircled in early days of the war, and he straight up says that encircled divisions used up all their ammunition and the waltzed through the Nazi encirclement lines back to the Soviet side. Not without losses, no, but with killrates like one t34 for 10-20 enemy tanks, with Soviet encircled divisions taking back cities and taking POWs while at it
No.578850
>>578526>>578539>>578568>>578572>>578584>>578597>>578609>>578613>>578617>>578621>>578643>>578649>>578668congrats anons u made it into the hall of shame
now pls dont derail and get horny in this thread again ok? <3
No.578855
This is post-nut clarity only general.
No.578859
>>578839>>578845Like, one army was encircled, and 9 divisions pf that army (out of 12 max?) just left the encirclement, spending their heavy equipment in the fights. Also, they've apparently managed to disassemble their heavy artillery pieces and bury them in Belarus, after the war they dug them up and placed those pieces in a museum
No.578874
>>578869we don't need /pol/jak /chug/posters, fuck off retard
No.578879
>>578864Based, there is nothing more repulsive and degenerate than sexualization of war. To the cuck caves with you
No.578893
>>578850>>578864attention-seeking femanon poster managed to become a mod, quelle surprise. i have no shame about my love for fat tits, and banning me won't change that
No.578903
>>578888???
Literally signed in photoshop with that general's logo. They better fucking behave themselves while here.
No.578908
>>578884You know how in 1900s jeetcel compradors like Gandhi would larp as an Angloid by wearing top hats and discriminating against blacks in a futile attempt to be accepted by the imperial government. This is what is happening to Ukraine right now, they're trying so hard to prove that they're loyal subjects of the West. Look, we consume the same slop as you, wear the same nazi patches like you and celebrate the same holidays as you! We are you! (Please accept us)
No.578913
>>578850Dunno if narchos should be allowed to mod this thread 🤔
No.578918
>>578893go goon somewhere else
No.578923
>>578898Why would i care with some esotericist larping invented by some pedo slaver romans 2000 years ago. Maybe to you westoids this kind of degenerate nonsense is important but in my eyes it's as stupid as prostrating to a camel. Are you going to pray to some haruspex before war too? Bitch
No.578928
Good god this thread is shitted up right now. Good thing those are the last posts before new one
No.578932
>>578850get back on your lithium
No.578937
>>578903>Literally signed in photoshop with that general's logo1) It's just a fucking image
2) So what? /chug/ hasn't been raiding here or anything like that, and some shitpost memes and banter isn't rule breaking
Banning that anon for this is retarded as fuck, especially since characters they post like Buhanka are literally Russian gijinka that the RUSSIANS make (buhanochka z on telegram is a Russian poster and 2ch is Russian territory). Are people really surprised that people are crossposting across sites?
No.578949
>>578937probably a pedophile btw
No.578954
>>578928this is comfy /ukraine/, at least there isn't some chomo literally having a psychotic breakdown because no one was wowed by their insight of "muh both sides"
No.578960
>>578937No, /chug/. You do not get a pass, a beachhead, or fucking anything.
No.578965
I would like to say that I, as a fascist, do not like titties at all
No.578969
Fucking bullshit that some anons got rangebanned for questioning the validity of yt videos while all the /chug/ crossposters can have free reign in spamming their goon neckbeard wholesome tranime chungus in thread. At this point we're going to end up like all the other rightoid-infested gooner colonies where people discuss about how jews are sending interracial porn to Ukraine amids all the anime posting
No.578982
>>578978Why is there a tank in a stadium.
No.578988
>>578978didn't the ukrainians send a bunch of their own olympic athletes to get blown up in bakhmut lol
No.578998
>>578954<88>this is comfy /ukraine/,Fuck off back to /pol/!
No.579008
>>578937>Can't not hide his pedophilia or defend his gay anons for even one minute.What a dunce. My god.
It is so laughable to me that these people used to claim to 'hide their power level'.
No.579013
>>579008>Can't notLMAO imagine seething in rage so hard you use a double negative
>pedophilia<oh noes someone makes a silly cartoon about a soviet car, better concern troll about pedos! >defend his gay friendsThere's a lot of assumptions in this one section of one sentence. They're not my friends, I'm not defending them and shitting yourself about tits is gay
>these people used to claim to 'hide their power level'. Who are you even talking about? For someone bitching about 4chan this much you sure like to use and resemble a lot of reddit and 4chan terminology. Go back, you salty /k/eyboard warrior.
No.579018
>>578949>ProjectionTake meds
>>578960 Shut the fuck up tank-anon, nobody likes a mod-wannabe attempting to gatekeep.
>Muh pass Read the rules, even if everyone is your /chug/ boogieman (even though 2ch-fags also post here among others) this is not rule breaking, nor is posting anime grills or bantering about a photo
https://leftypol.org/rules.html >a beachheadWhy are you keyboard warriors so delusional? /chug/ existed before this series of threads and has crossposted here since the war's start, suddenly seething about it sounds like the bothside's fags bitching about "muh ziggers".
>>578969>spamming their goon neckbeard wholesome tranime chungus What the fuck are you even talking about, just spitting out random vaguely denigrating buzzwords doesn't stop making your shit any less of an ad-hom rant.
>we're going to end up like all the other rightoid-infested gooner colonies Imagine concern trolling this hard, with a porky flag no less.
No.579023
new bread when?
No.579037
>>578354This one is funny cause they use the cartoonish music that Ukrainians set as the soundtrack when making fun of Russians.
No.579042
>>579018nobody cares retard, take your autistic bitching elsewhere
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