Zionist “memorial exhibit” was creation of Justin Bieber and Ariana Grande’s manager:
https://www.instagram.com/p/C8bGlpJt_yT/Should we add every artist managed by Scooter Braun to the BDS list?
>>12729All those artists are lame anyway so sure whatever
Look, I'm 110% anti-Zionist like everyone else here, but am I the only one who thinks the boycott shit is getting way irrational?
I mean, in Montreal there were calls to boycott certain restaurants just because the owners follow an Israeli chef on IG. If a restaurant was openly supporting Isn'treal and giving money to the IOF I would fully support boycotting but are we seriously going to boycott for every single little thing? How does this help the resistance?
>>12731well, idk about you but i would certainly prefer not to give any money to people who think any israeli is acceptable
>>12731association with Israel being a shortcut to pariah status > big incentive to disassociate yourself, harder for Israel to "normal-wash" themselves. Expand it to Israelis > big incentive for them to stop being cunts domestically. (or to be even cuntier - if that's possible - to the rest of the world, with the same effect of isolating them.)
not having twitter because you're living in Tel Aviv is 2024's answer to all the cool bands refusing to play Jo'burg.
>>12747Sure but is following an Israeli on IG really something to cancel someone over?
>>12747>>12749I don't think people advocating boycotting every single little thing in the name of "BDS" understand how close-knit and mutual aid-based the Jewish community is. Every time any Jews are cancelled or blacklisted for being "Zionists" nearly the entire Jewish community in the area comes to that person's support.
If we're talking about Montreal, there was a restaurant owned by an Israeli guy that was recently attacked by gunfire over the owner being Israeli. Guess what? The restaurant received a ton of support from locals and the owner claimed on IG that he saw more business the day after than he had any other day running the place.
https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/montreal-restaurant-hit-with-projectiles-owner-says-it-s-because-he-is-jewish-1.6933290Or, look at what happened during EuroVision: the Israeli singer received a record number of audience votes. I can tell you most of those were coming from the Jewish community in several places which saw it as their communal duty to support her BECAUSE of all the BDS backlash.
As far as apartheid South Africa goes, it's not like ASA had a huge diaspora population that bought South African grapes and coffee to spite the boycotters. Jews are used to being pariahs, but the difference is Jews are extremely supportive of each other. Religious Jewish communities (even ones that are less orthodox and fundamentalist) function like their own little state-within-a-state.
I say this as someone who lived in a Jewish community for three years and saw the love and warmth the people there provided each other. It's a real shame leftists can't do the same and set up our own communities where we take care of each other.
>>12748> I'm 110% anti-Zionist like everyone else here, sorry. excuse me for falling for you bait. i guess this should've warned me
>teehee hello fellow goys!
>>12750wow. jews support jews. who would've suspected that. even msm has been reporting on jewish cabals trying to fuck people over
>>12750Yeah I get that. But boycotts aren't really about damaging the businesses as much as they are about raising awareness.
>>12751I don't equate anti-Zionist with believing all Israelis are nefarious people. That's like saying all Americans are evil people due to the fact no one in America does anything to effectively end American imperialism.
>>12752BDS largely backfires in these instances because it doesn't take into account how Israel's supporters are just as proactive as BDS activists are. Say "boycott Restaurant X because it's owned by an Israeli" and the restaurant will see an influx of customers from the Jewish community the next day who want to support other Jews coming under fire.
>>12753"Awareness" which largely backfires.
>That's like saying all Americans are evil people due to the fact no one in America does anything to effectively end American imperialism.It's interesting how pro-Palestine activists say the same thing about Israelis that Third Worldists and Sakaists say about white people in America. Makes me wonder why they believe Israelis are irredeemable when all other settler peoples are not.
>>12749they can always unfollow and make a token apology. social media is socialization gamified. this sort of thing is just a mechanic.
>>12750forcing jewish communities to choose between a friendly attitude to zionism and general acceptance does not seem to me an unspeakable horror. (but my calculus is that no matter how close knit a community is, internet clout and capitalist social relations always win in the end. lose the world market and israel is bad money after god. your calculus may differ if you think communal ties will win, resulting in actual isolation…)
>>12755What's the point of unfollowing? Why is following an Israeli on IG an inherently bad thing to do that requires apologizing for?
>>12755Jews have stuck together in spite of undergoing way worse. Go to any Jewish community and look inside their stores and you will see about half the products sold there are either made in Israeli or by diaspora Jewish-owned companies. Jews are strongly, strongly interdependent on one another which is why these petty boycotts often fail.
>>12756it's a big opportunity to send anti-israel social signals, or have people worsen their lives by sending pro-Israel social signals. In the most trivial way possible, it's international isolation.
>>12758So if I'm friends with an Israeli, I should cut them off just to virtue signal?
>>12757I would also think there's a number of people who are getting frustrated with Palestine activists and would buy Israeli products just because they hate pink-haired Suzy in a keffiyeh screaming at traffic.
>>12754jews can't support all jew-owned businesses forever however
reminds of how the taiwense were hoping everyone would just keep buying their fruit after china boycotted them but people forgot about their "plight" the next year
>>12759That's exactly what some BDS activists (not all but some) will say to do. They believe they're helping the Palestinians by alienating anyone who calls themselves Israeli.
Which again, is going to massively backfire given that those Israelis will simply become more reliant on each other and strengthen each other.
The best way to end Zionism is to invite a Jewish family over for dinner IMHO. Show them that Gentiles care about them so they don't have to resort to ultra-nationalism.
>>12760That too. "Anti-wokeness" is becoming anti-Palestinian very quickly for a number of reasons. It doesn't help that so many activists are going overboard and becoming moral fanatics. Because that's definitely how the war will end.
>>12761Taiwanese are small and insignificant compared to Jews, and it's not like there's a huge Taiwanese diaspora that all helps out other Taiwanese. Jews have been social pariahs for most of their history in nearly every single country they've resided in and know exactly how to survive. Mutual aid is the key to Jewish survival.
>>12754>Say "boycott Restaurant X because it's owned by an Israeli" and the restaurant will see an influx of customers from the Jewish community the next day who want to support other Jews coming under fire.and the day after? and after that? and the next day?
be strategic, of course, but small businesses are marginally profitable at the best of times…
>>12757let them buy what they want: if they lose Tesco, that's gonna a much bigger financial hit. fundamentally, i don't think israelis will be satisfied without a degree of western approval and cultural exchange - so make such exchanges a minefield, a chance to remember they are hated.
>>12759nah, your signal wouldn't carry far enough (unless one of you is a big social media name already). that's why you go for businesses. let people see you did it to a restaurant, try it to a book fair taking israeli money next, a uni inviting Israeli speakers the day after…
it would, however, be very cringe to make a big deal out of having Israeli friends.
>>12762>Show them that Gentiles care about them so they don't have to resort to ultra-nationalism.lmao. if gentiles being subservient to them appeased them then american jews wouldn't be such duplicitous fifth column but the fact of the matter is that even when jews are completely at ease, protected and firmly enthroned in the upper classes of a country they still go around doing pro-israel shenanigans
>>12763>Taiwanese are small and insignificant compared to Jews, there are more taiwanese than there are jews but clearly you have a pro-jew bias
>>12760then go join them at /pol/
>>12765>and the day after? and after that? and the next day?By that time the war will be over and no one will care enough to boycott.
>be strategic, of course, but small businesses are marginally profitable at the best of times…Why is being owned by an Israeli justification by itself to boycott and marginalize? Why do all Israelis deserve to be hated, especially when they're living outside of Israel?
>so make such exchanges a minefield, a chance to remember they are hated.Will never happen because, again, you fail to realize how supportive Jews are of each other. Plus Israel has many non-Jewish supporters and once the war is over they'll go right back to investing in Israeli technology and whatnot.
>>12767>if gentiles being subservient to them appeased them then american jews wouldn't be such duplicitous fifth column Oh boy, it's the "Jews control everything" conspiracy again.
>is that even when jews are completely at ease, protected and firmly enthroned in the upper classes of a country they still go around doing pro-israel shenanigans And boycotting restaurants for being owned by Israelis won't fix this problem. The capitalist class doesn't need public opinion to be on their side if they can afford it.
>there are more taiwanese than there are jews but clearly you have a pro-jew biasTaiwanese aren't super pro-active at supporting each other, at least not to the extent Jews are. "An injury to one is an injury to all" is basically Jewish cultural creed at this point.
>>12767>"appease the Jews"FFS man
>>12765>and the day after? and after that? and the next day?>be strategic, of course, but small businesses are marginally profitable at the best of times…Community building. People respond during a time of distress and it creates long-term community bonds.
>>12769>Why is being owned by an Israeli justification by itself to boycott and marginalize?Clout, clout, clout. It's not a game of "deserving", it's a game of casual linking and posturing. See, it's fairly obvious you're here motivated by some pro-Jewish sympathy (which really ought to be decoupled from zionism - as a matter of keeping clout as nothing else - but it's never that easy when you've gotta square social obligations with social signalling, is it?) - that's obvious. me? i'm not here arguing
for Palestine, I'm here to keep social media score, to offer my pick for who'll win the big game. I'm a
media studies guy, and I say Palestine's stealing the show.
>Will never happen because, again, you fail to realize how supportive Jews are of each otheri'm sure all the jews will turn up to the furry convention to show it was a mistake for pro-palestine clout chasers to boycott it for taking misc sponsorship from Elbit…
sadly we'll never see such farce, since such a furcon would never get off the ground.>>12771a comfy just so story. you have your restaurant: i want the universities.
>>12773>Clout, clout, clout. It's not a game of "deserving", it's a game of casual linking and posturing.So anything owned by Israelis has to be boycotted because Israelis merely existing in the world is PR for Israel? How?
>i'm not here arguing for Palestine, I'm here to keep social media score, to offer my pick for who'll win the big game. I'm a media studies guy, and I say Palestine's stealing the show.Well, you will just have to assume that the people boycotting and demanding other people boycott are more dedicated than the people countering the boycotts.
The war will be forced to end at some point and people will forget about Palestinian suffering like they always do. The same people who believe Palestine activism will bring the West to its knees in the long-run were the same blokes who said the protests against the Iraq War would do the same, or who truly believed the Occupy Movement would bring some kind of socialism to America, which it never did.
>i want the universities.Which again, have been pro-Palestine for a long time yet the protests and boycotts do little to nothing. Even the campus encampments are purely performative at this point.
>>12774>So anything owned by Israelis has to be boycotted because Israelis merely existing in the world is PR for Israel? According to theoretical anti-humanism, yes. You can't separate your identity from the material conditions that created it.
>>12775So we're talking being in a state of total depravity now aren't we?
Why are Israelis the only group of people morally obligated to abandon their identity? You never see leftists demanding all whites leave South Africa despite white South Africans still holding the majority of the country's wealth. You never see leftists demanding Ukrainians stop identifying as "Ukrainian" and start identifying as "Russian" do you?
American leftists will unanimously demand all Jews leave Israel-Palestine yet remain divided on reparations for colonized peoples (Blacks and indigenous) within their own country's borders. Really makes you think.
>>12777It's not about what the left wants it's about what the Palestinians want which is Palestine fully decolonized. They shouldn't be forced to live alongside settlers.
>>12778>Palestine fully decolonized. They shouldn't be forced to live alongside settlers.On what basis will 7.3 million Israeli Jews living between the river and the sea get up and leave? You're talking about a massive exodus of people what would equate to roughly half the population, not a tiny aristocracy like whites in South Africa or the gusanos in Cuba. And on what basis should all Israelis be punished? Are they too evil to be redeemed through education and struggle?
The only position the international left should have on this conflict is: "end the war, ceasefire now, charge Bibi with crimes against humanity." Anything else is straight LARPing.
>>12729Protesting this stupid exhibit was fucking stupid. Yeah, it's clearly manufacturing consent for the ongoing war, but no one would have cared about it had people not protested outside of it.
>>12774>has to be boycotted here you are again assigning morality.
may be boycotted.
i find it hard to believe your primary objection to being mean to Israelis is that it won't work: i suspect, instead, it's that you don't want people to be mean to Israelis, that you would be uncomfortable even if it did work. (i, on the other hand, am at ease with it even if it only makes them unhappy: that's what social media normally does - but usually to far more sympathetic people…)
>>12777the extreme demands will end when Israel adopts a more rational posture: were Israel to do a Mandela tomorrow, the incentives of the clout game change.
>>12779pop quiz: do you hate the slogan "from the river to the sea"? is that also
unhelpful, also
straight LARPing?
>>12781Why be mean to Israelis?
>>12781Being mean to Israelis is both useless and counter-productive. Singling out an entire nationality on the basis that simply existing "normalizes" Palestinian genocide is ridiculous. That's like saying any white people living in South Africa de facto constitutes apartheid and all whites need to be expelled from the country.
>the extreme demands will end when Israel adopts a more rational posture: The rhetoric being used says otherwise. Activists will see any "softer Israel" as an affront to their decolonization goals.
>do you hate the slogan "from the river to the sea"?No because it's a useless slogan. It's like saying: "SUPPORT THE TROOPS."
NGL Palestine is becoming a wedge issue in America like abortion and trans rights.
>>12744all “israelis” are settlers
>>12788>The rhetoric being used says otherwise. Activists will see any "softer Israel" as an affront to their decolonization goals.well yeah,that's what people on this site say to every other extra territorial territory,and even to the south of the US,they're mostly ethno-centrists that infiltrated leftism by the self-determination door.
>>12789More like, BDS and Palestine activism are becoming a wedge issue. The ruling class is already using this to divide the working-class by playing up the irrationality of Palestine protesters and painting all of them as college campus “wokes.”
>>12791then don't fucking complain about them being discriminated
>>12794Why does being Israeli mean one deserves discrimination? There are plenty of white libs who believe all Russians deserve collective discrimination too.
>>12795idk i suppose being from a repulsive settler state where people have been voting for the same reactionary fuck for the last two decades, where 90% of the population identifies as some sort of rightoid and where the majority of the population agrees with starving gazans may have something to do.
but you're right maybe if we just treat israelis like any other people as they've been treated by the west since their founding they will realize the error in their ways and stop occupying palestinians! any time now
>>12795>>12796If you look at the data, the numbers of Israelis and Jews who believe that Israel is commiting genocide, that Israel should not exist anymore and that Palestine should be reconstructed by Israel money is a considerable amount of 1/3.
The ultra "right wing" Israelis that believe Israel actions are justified are the minority.
>>12798if you say so, anon (poll from january)
can't say i will be holding my breath for jews to overthrow king bibi and put a leftist in place lmao
specially considering jew youth is even more right wing than the general jew population of the country
>>12796So Israelis are so evil they can’t be redeemed?
Why the exceptionalism?
>>12799Okay now how many Americans believed the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were justified coming out of 9/11?
>>12802How are Israelis exceptional when it comes to being irredeemable?
>>12790>>12794>>12796So you're willing to advocate collective punishment just like Israel does to the Palestinians (interestingly enough) for all Israelis just because you're angered by the most far-right elements of Israeli society?
This is exactly the kind of rhetoric that the so-called "woke left" uses against poor whites who vote for Trump and hold extremely socially reactionary views. White liberals will often times talk about taking federal aid away from the flyover states because "hurr durr they vote Republican". You seem to be no different, tarring every Israeli with the same brush.
>>12802>but there's certainly far more americans that are okay-ish.Doubtful. Even the "good" Americans serve the empire just by being alive if we're going by your standards.
Wanting all Israelis to be punished is lunacy.
>>12805yeah, it makes me think that xitter is a cesspool of reactionaries and bots
Fortunately, when the war is over everyone will forget BDS ever existed and move on like they always do.
>>12813yeah, everyone will back to celebrating israel, bds will be banned, holocaust remembrance of the 12 million jews will be made mandatory and i can't wait for the NOVA music festival® movie filled with attractive ashkenazi jewesses being defiled by evil arabs (portrayed by mizrahi jews) sweeping the oscars and somehow winning an emmy, a tony and a grammy as well!
>>12816> holocaust remembrance of the 12 million jews will be made mandatoryThis is bad thing, why? I thought fascists were our enemies and their crimes deserve to be highlighted.
>>12806It’s not that Israelis have hit total depravity, it’s that the Palestinian people themselves have specifically asked us to boycott and socially isolate everything associated with Israel and Zionism. If an Israeli opens a restaurant in your area the right thing to do is boycott because you want that person to know Zionists aren’t welcome anywhere in the world. It’s out of love for Palestine not out of hatred for Jews.
>>12817true
#onlyjewishlivesmatter #onlyjewssuffer #rememberthe24millionjewskilled
>>12729>Should we add every artist managed by Scooter Braun to the BDS list?Why? What does this achieve?
>>12806Uh-oh zio detected
>>12729And yet rappers keep working with The Alchemist, who's Israeli and has a beat tape entitled "Israeli Salad".
>>12750I'm Jewish and can confirm it's fascinating how Jews are able to maintain tight-knit communities despite having so many internal differences within the group. Goyish leftists can't seem to do this because they build "communities" based on abstract labels rather than being materially interdependent on one other. Everything in Judaism is about action in the material world (to play off of the spiritual world) so it's the material traditions which keep the community together. Leftists seem to think that merely having a label like "queer", "autistic", "anarchist", etc. is enough to make a bunch of people who have nothing else in common a "community" when said "communities" fall apart very quickly.
I love how BDS has gone from pragmatic and reasonable:
>”boycott Starbucks and Coke and divest from weapons manufacturers”
To outright bullshit:
>”you’re not allowed to be friends with a Zionist”
>>12872well why would you be?
>>12872you're really mad nobody likes your genocide beneficiary friend, aren't you.
>>12874How does not being friends with a Zionist stop the genocide in Palestine? What good does it do?
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