/music/ - Music

at some point I knew this stuff. it's basically names for all the possible semitone sequences but I have forgotten all the useful information a long time ago. someone should write a book explaining music theory to STEM people using exclusively midi and math terminology

all of this stuff could be more easily explained using numbers or programming languages, it is not complicated at all. people have written small programs that generate random melodies (and even harmonies) using music theory expressed in those terms

>Is there an intuitive way to learn all this stuff?
option 1, learn to play an instrument, most of the terminology overlaps
option 2, try reading how these random melody generators work (https://thomaeblog.wordpress.com/melody-generator/ for example)

>>8350
>its weird use of language and ordering of information is extremely unhelpful. Is there an intuitive way to learn all this stuff?
Yeah idk what it is but it seems like musicians are all missing whatever lobe of your brain you use to explain things because never once have I found a passable beginner explanation for this stuff. They always assume you already understand as much as they do.

Look at a piano, virtual or physical. Pick out a note. This is now the key, in a sense different from a keyboard. Every key (in the sense of a keyboard), black or white, to the right of it is worth a single semi-tone upwards in pitch.
Three semi-tones up from the key is a minor third. Four semi-tones up from the key is a major third. Seven semi-tones up from the key is a perfect fifth. Strike the key, the minor third, and the perfect fifth and you have a minor chord. Strike the key, the major third, and the perfect fifth and you have a major chord.
Congrats, you now know the most basic fundamentals of Western tonal music. Obviously, you can do more things like inversions and other scales and ways to step intervals and whatnot but I'm too lazy to get into those.

Literally just learn how scales and chords work (it's not rocket science, just ways to sequence notes in a way that sounds right), then practice some simple pieces on an instrument and move up from there

Not reading other replies. I am actually a musical genius and I will make this simple.

You take a scale, say the major scale. Each note is a Mode. These are the notes/modes of the scale in order:
1. Ionian: major scale, very happy
2. Dorian: minor scale with sharp 6, sounds sad but more happy than minor.
3. Phrygian: minor scale with flat 2, sounds metal and Egyptian and heavy af
4. Lydian: major with sharp 4, happy but has a flat 5 so it sounds mysterious
5. Mixolydian: major scale with a flat 7, major scale but resolves differently, barely darker than Ionia
6. Aeolian or minor: this is the minor scale, sounds sad
7. Locrian: minor scale with flat 2 and 5, doesn't resolve, sounds unsettling and darkest.

Take A minor, the modes are
1. C ionian or major
2. D Dorian
3. E phrygian
4. F Lydian
5. G mixolydian
6. A aeolian
7 B locrian

So basically, within every scale there are an equal amount of scales as there are notes. The mode you use gives you the musical vibe. Google a backing track in the key/mode you want and play that scale

>>8368
This guy covers it. Every Mode has its own unique chord progressions that can be used to highlight that Mode and establish tonal center

>>8368
How are there scales within other scales?

>>8370
They aren't actually new scales. It's the same scale but starting and ending on another note, giving it a new tonal center and tonality.

You take a scale: C major/ionian.
You start and end on say the 6th note of that scale.
Now you are playing A aeolian/MINOR scale.

You get other scales my taking the major scale (and it's modes) and changing one or more notes.

Take ionian and sharpen the 5th, or aeolian and sharpen the seventh. This scale is harmonic minor and now you have 7 new modes, 7 new scales

>>8371
>They aren't actually new scales
Okay? I never said that
>It's the same scale but starting and ending on another note, giving it a new tonal center and tonality.
Okay? This doesn't explain anything
>You start and end on say the 6th note of that scale.
>Now you are playing A aeolian/MINOR scale.
So you switch the scales up? And even the key? Why would I do this? Explain this shit like I'm a human with motivations and shit, please

In theory the music theory is important to make theoretically good music. But that's my theory anyway.

This is a very detailed, no-nonsense intro to it all

>>8558
The author is also a lefty
https://tagg.org/rants/rants.html

>>8558
>third chapter finally explains what the fuck a mode is, thereby rendering the preface and first 2 chapters actually readable
awful structure

>>8567
lol every time with this shit I swear

Is there someone that teaches music theory that's also able to comprehend object permanence and also the fact that they might understand context that another, less knowledgeable person might not?

>>8567
True. Unless you're familiar with how the Ionian and Aeolian modes are structured and how the tonic sol-fa method relates to them, the "tonal note names" section in the first chapter hits you like a truck. Most of it's not that bad though

>What is a lydian mode? What is a key?

An octave is the interval between a pitch frequency and a frequency that's double the first one
Octaves are divided into 12 equal intervals in the 12-tone equal temperament system, which is the most fundamental base of "Western" tonal theory
The notes of this octave are alphabetically named from the very beginning of the octave:
A
A♯/B♭
B
C
C♯/D♭
D
D♯/E♭
E
F
F♯/G♭
G
G♯/A♭
A (beginning of next octave)
♯ means "sharp" or that note plus a "half step", ♭ means "flat" or that note minus a "half step"
Usually, one of the A notes is tuned to 440Hz, the standard concert pitch in classical European orchestras

A mode is basically a scale, which is a specific sequence of pitch intervals used exclusively throughout a musical tune
The most popular category of modes/scales is the diatonic scales, which consist of 7 intervals (any scale with 7 intervals is called "heptatonic" from "hepta-" meaning seven and "-tonic" meaning tone) across an octave, 5 of which are "whole steps" (i.e. A♯/B♭ -> C) and 2 which are "half steps" (i.e C -> C♯/D♭), the 2 half steps being separated from one another by 2 or 3 whole steps
The notes in a diatonic scale are ordered:
1st - Tonic or key note
2nd - Supertonic
3rd - Mediant
4th - Subdominant
5th - Dominant
6th - Submediant
7th - Leading tone
Scales/modes are relative to absolute note names like listed way above, as the tonic starting note can be any of of the absolute note names, but the rest of the scale is constructed using its own intervals which map on to specific other absolute note names
Diatonic scales/modes:
Ionian mode/major scale: whole step -> whole step -> half step -> whole step -> whole step -> whole step -> half step i.e C -> D -> E -> F -> G -> A -> B
Dorian/Doric mode: whole step -> half step -> whole step -> whole step -> whole step -> half step -> whole step i.e C -> D -> D♯/E♭ -> F -> G -> A -> A♯/B♭
Phrygian mode: half step -> whole step -> whole step -> whole step -> half step -> whole step -> whole step i.e. C -> C♯/D♭ -> D♯/E♭ -> F -> G -> G♯/A♭ -> A♯/B♭
Lydian mode: whole step -> whole step -> whole step -> half step -> whole step -> whole step -> half step i.e. C –> D –> E -> F♯/G♭ –> G -> A -> B
Mixolydian mode: whole step -> whole step -> half step -> whole step -> whole step -> half step -> whole step i.e. C –> D –> E –> F –> G –> A –> A♯/B♭
Aeolian mode/minor scale: whole step -> half step -> whole step -> whole step -> half step -> whole step -> whole step i.e. C -> D -> D♯/E♭ -> F -> G -> G♯/A♭ -> A♯/B♭
Locrian mode: half step -> whole step -> whole step -> half step -> whole step -> whole step -> whole step i.e. C –> C♯/D♭ –> D♯/E♭ –> F –> F♯/G♭ –> G♯/A♭ –> A♯/B♭
You can build a chord (multiple notes played at once) out of a scale with any of the notes in it, the 2 most well known being the "major chord" made out of the 1st, 3rd and 5th notes of the Ionian mode/major scale and the "minor chord" made out of the 1st, 3rd and 5th notes of the Aeolian mode/minor scale
If a tune is based around a scale, and the tonic of that scale stays constant throughout the tune, then that tonic note is the key of that tune

See >>8558 for everything else

>>8576
If it's still confusing, a whole step is just 2 notes up, and a half step is just one note up, in the 12-note octave system

Music theory will never make sense to you unless you already play music in some form
Of course, you can't come up with something like a major or minor chord which is almost essential in every well-known musical form right now without the idea of scales/modes, but also you can't really understand scales/modes if you haven't played a melody in them

>>8576
Also I forgot to add the final note in the scale examples, all of which are C but an octave higher because they loop back around to the tonic

>>8371
>You take a scale: C major/ionian.
>You start and end on say the 6th note of that scale.
>Now you are playing A aeolian/MINOR scale.
Anon still hasn't explained what the fuck this means

<https://www.musictheory.net/lessons
<https://www.youtube.com/@8bitMusicTheory
The key or key signature refers to how many sharps/flats are in a piece. The major scale has a certain pattern of whole steps and half steps which results in a certain bright and happy sound. C major does not require any sharps or flats to give you the proper whole/half step pattern (just the white keys on a piano, babby's first scale). The circle of fifths chart displays all the keys, adding a sharp/flat if you move on one side, like going from C to G adds a sharp which raises a note or scale degree to maintain the pattern of whole/half steps which form the major scale, and then from G to D adds another sharp, until you wrap around to flat keys which lower a note, and then back to C.
Modes are when you play in a certain key but start on a different note. So if you play in C major starting on the 6th scale degree, which is A, that's the "relative minor" of C maj. (often heard in pop music like The Beatles). The generic form of the minor scale is called the A Aeolian mode. There are other types of minor scale, but they have exotic flavored sounds because of a different pattern of whole steps and half steps. Our brain perceives modes as sounding differently because of the context which those frequencies are played, despite them technically being the same.
>>8382
>So you switch the scales up? And even the key? Why would I do this? Explain this shit like I'm a human with motivations and shit, please
Why would you use colors to paint instead of just black and white? Sometimes an artist wants to express a particular emotion and shift in feelings. When a song moves to its relative minor/major, it changes to a sad/happy tone while keeping the same key so its not random and weird. The chord built off the 5th scale degree mode is called dominant, its the most important. It allows for tonal harmony with a sense of tension and release, usually a resolution back to the tonic or root note. If a song moves up a key at the end, it could express an intensifying of emotion. Going from the keys of C to D sounds higher in context which we perceive as a movement upwards. Borrowing chords from other keys or using modes gives a unique jazzy sound but those are more advanced tonal harmony techniques than a common chord progression like I - vi - V7 - I
>>8578
>Music theory will never make sense to you unless you already play music in some form
(insert Marx quote about praxis vs mere analysis)

>>8581
>When a song moves to its relative minor/major, it changes to a sad/happy tone while keeping the same key so its not random and weird. The chord built off the 5th scale degree mode is called dominant, its the most important.
Wow what does this mean

>>8580
Why couldn't anon just say that you're starting and ending on the A minor scale????? Why did they have to add that it's the 6th note of some other fucking scale that's literally not part of the equation??? What's the point of this extra abstraction?????????

>>8582
No answer. This is why incels should stick to hentai video games.

>>8582
>>8583
Just looked up what a dominant chord ("chord built off the 5th scale degree mode") is, and if there's a dominant chord built on the major scale, then it's literally just a minor chord anyways. What the fuck is the point of that??????? What is the usecase for this terminology??? I will probably never have this explained to me, neither in this thread nor on the countless bot-created blogs that just regurgitate information from elsewhere that keep showing up on my search engine because music theory retards are medically incapable of directly linking one bit of information to another.

>>8587
A dominant 7th chord is definitely different from a minor 7th chord lol. Just wait to you find out about chords that are literally the same. When you start adding notes to a chord, the more alternative names that chord has.

>>8588
But if you're starting on the 5th scale degree of the major scale, then you're basically starting on the 1st scale degree of the minor scale. They're basically the same thing, like how A sharp and B flat are the same thing.

>>8589
I said when you make it a tetrad, the dominant is different than the triad.

>>8590
You didn't say that at all

>>8591
>A dominant 7th chord is definitely different from a minor 7th chord lol.
The 7th is the tet vs the triad

>>8589
Woops, the 6th is the minor scale. 5th would be in mixolydian.
>>8592
You never mentioned 7th chords up until >>8588. Not sure if this is a troll.

>Dominant seventh chords are often built on the fifth scale degree (or dominant) of a key. For instance, in the C major scale, G is the fifth note of the scale, and the seventh chord built on G is the dominant seventh chord, G7 (shown above). In this chord, F is a minor seventh above G. In Roman numeral analysis, G7 would be represented as V7 in the key of C major.
Starting on G in C major means you're just starting on G in the Mixolydian scale

>>8593
>You never mentioned 7th chords up until >>8588 (You). Not sure if this is a troll.
That's where I started replying to this thread retard to explain the difference between a dominant and a minor tard.

>>8595
Oh, so you're just another incel. Got it.

>>8596
You'll never be good at music. Just accept it and stop bothering everyone with your retardation.

>>8598
It's math and not even that complex math. It's easy to understand and hard to master like you should to be able to be a proper musician and play anything in any key on the spot by ear.

>>8597
>can't properly explain why you would do some rube-goldberg theoretical trick, instead keeps spamming some shit that I could look up on Wikipedia anyways
>person that can pass a blade runner test gets confused
>you will never be a genius at music like me!!!
Okay

>>8600
Every post you just keep elaborating on why you'll never be even basic level proficient at music.

>>8600
>can't properly explain why you would do some rube-goldberg theoretical trick
Here you go tard

>>8602
I already know what a scale and a chord are. Why do you think is the problem I'm trying to understand? I want to understand why a composer would use different diatonic scales in a tune with the same key signature.

>>8603
7th dominant and minor chords can be both diatonic in the same key. It seems you don't want to understand the basics. If you want to look past diatonic music theory look up chromatism, there is a theory for it.

>>8604
>>8604
>chromatism,
*chromaticism

>>8603
The key signature is only there to make sure the tune doesn't sound too wonky. Sometimes you want to change up the mood or sound at different parts of the tune, so you switch to a different tonal center as >>8371 already said.

This channel has some videos on it
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMvVESrbjBWplAcg3pG0TesncGT7qvO06
They have a bunch of videos analyzing classic pop songs with music theory
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMvVESrbjBWqiFknEG7ZeTk69soXSvU2J

>>8350
> Is there an intuitive way to learn all this stuff?
Be born with perfect pitch

Just use tabs bro

>>8567
the problem with pedagogy is it doesn't matter how you structure a book because concepts often have mutual prerequisites and basically need to be taught simultaneously.