How does one go about becoming an Old Order Mennonite?
I’m thinking about joining because I’ve realized their theology is by far the most consistent with both communism and Early Christianity (which was full communism in its truest sense). Unlike most other Christians, Old Order Mennonites actually practice communism by holding all possessions in common. They believe all land and wealth belong to God and God only. They do not work for the capitalist system but for their community. They also adhere to a consistent life ethic, meaning they are anti-war, anti-imperialist, anti-capitalist, anti-eugenics, anti-abortion, anti-death penalty, anti-gun, anti-euthanasia, you get the picture. They are also notorious pacifists who refuse to pay taxes to an imperialist, war-hungry government. That’s far more principled than the vast majority of “leftists” in the world.
I was raised Jewish and am largely disgusted by the fascism in the Jewish community regarding Palestine. Judaism is also anti-universalist at its core. I became Christian last year but realized I need more from my faith. The Old Order Mennonites are the only Christians who perfectly reflect the true teachings of Christ. So how do I join? What’s the process? Would they accept a former Jew like me?
>>687298idc about marxs personal opinions and his analysis led him to the conclusion religion has no place in communism anyway
>his philosophylol
>Christianity realizednah this gotta be bait lmfao
>>687280early christian communities were communist in the sense that they had a communal life without exploitation, just like how paleolithic hunter-gatherers were communists because there wasn't any surplus to appropriate. think about it this way: you can't steal from someone that doesn't have anything
marx's point was that maybe in a future without scarcity humanity might go back to such existence (you can't steal if you already have everything) but for the time being and the conceivable future there is surplus value and thus class struggle. this is, society produces more than it needs to stay alive, so there is always going to be conflict about how the surplus is distributed. and there is no going back in time to the paleolithic, you have to push forward because technology imposes itself regardless of what you think is right or wrong
>>687292they don't, first of all because they are irrelevant and second because they don't have the material interests to do it so their "support" for whatever cause will always be flimsy and testimonial. the worker salary (and thus their life) is directly opposed to the profits of their employer, this will always be a stronger motivation than the boring mythology of christianity
>>687298marx thought feuerbach didn't go hard enough on his refutation of religion, he had nothing but contempt for it. the only reason he didn't more openly criticize it is because he thought it was an irrelevant vestige of the past not worth mentioning
wtf
>>687280It couldn't have been Marxist, but it could have been communist.
Communism kind of a vague term describing a classless society (and consequently, a society without money and property.) Marx and Engels described many economically primitive hunter-gatherer societies as being a form of "primitive communism," even though none of these societies that we're aware of were without religion or superstitions.
What's more, the main issue Marx had with religion was that it encouraged people to passively accept their conditions in life and to instead "store their treasures in heaven." It promised people a better life in the next world to get people to care less about their lives in this world, and this lead to them being less class conscious and less willing to change their conditions or to make revolution against the current order of things.
These days, religion doesn't do that so much anymore. The call for people to store their treasures in Heaven has been largely replaced by a million voices telling the people that if they behave virtuously and work hard, they will ascend to an earthly Elysium of material wealth.
>>687379Most religions actually are low key materialistic.
Allt the talk about "storing up for the afterlife" is a joke
Most religions focus on geopolitical domination.
Judaism and Islam are the biggest examples
>>687943Lets not forget that Protestantism is responsible for modern capitalism.
>No idea why comrades think the Mennonites or Amish are anything close to leftist. They may live communally and be openly anti-war but they're highly reactionary among themselves. Extremely patriarchal. Very queerphobifc. Elders will attack other Mennonite/Amish elders for not being devout enough. Oh, and did you know there are Amish porkies? Several Amish have become millionaires from running construction companies. They also run their communities like the mafia.This all sounds too much like the antisemitic impression of Judaism.
I bet those communities have a lot of sexual/industrial abuse of young people.
Everyone knows that the more religious a community is, the more debauched it is.
Ironically, the more secular a community is, the less debauched it is
>>687945>This all sounds too much like the antisemitic impression of Judaism.How so? I lived in rural Maryland for a few years not too far from where loads of Mennonites and Amish live. I know their community structures and customs quite well.
>I bet those communities have a lot of sexual/industrial abuse of young people.Oh there is. A lot of young girls get molested by older men. Many ex-Mennonite/Amish women have talked about this. No one reports it because their communities are ultra-conformist and patriarchal af.
>>687946>Oh there is. A lot of young girls get molested by older men. Many ex-Mennonite/Amish women have talked about this. No one reports it because their communities are ultra-conformist and patriarchal af.This is why I have no respect for family men as a social class. If they're not fucking teenage girls they're wanting to get fudge packed by lonely young men.
They're out of shape, hairy, and have questionable hygiene.
>How so? I lived in rural Maryland for a few years not too far from where loads of Mennonites and Amish live. I know their community structures and customs quite well.They live in Maryland?
In the rural areas?
>>687947Simp
>>687277The Old Order Mennonites are one subset of the Plain People. I speak only to the American ones as I am familiar with them.
There is a fairly wide variety within the Plain People. There are Amish, German Baptist, Hutterites, Mennonites and probably some other ones. Within these groups, there are variations based on what the elders and the bishop of a subgroup decide.
Some have electricity, other's don't. Some can have cars, other's cannot. Some buggies can have rubber wheels, others must have steel wheels. Some can even have computers and the internet, but they can only be used for work and I believe are in a common area of the home so they are monitored. Even the ones with horse and buggy can pay outsiders (or as they call them, the English) to drive them even over long distances, sometimes for vacations like fishing in Canada, but usually it is for family reunions, funerals, weddings, some type of work, horse auctions, and occasionally for surgeries or hospital care.
They do tend to actually resist technology and if they allow it, it will come up with various rules to make sure it isn't abused. They also have things like having the bishop and elders inspect your house if they think you are up to no good and some communities just do this regularly from time to time to everyone.
But, overall, yes they retain traditional gender roles, greatly limit technology use, and so on. Of course, they use things like pneumatic technology, some gas-powered machines for work, sometimes lawnmowers, but it really boils down to the particular community as, again, the bishop and the elders make the rules.
They aren't really against technology for its own sake, they just want to make sure that technology doesn't do more harm than good to their communities before they allow it to be used sparingly or commonly.
How do join? I cannot say. You will have to ask them in person.
>>687324>>688335>>688337There is no way in hell OP will ever be accepted by the more insular Mennonites. Modern Mennonites maybe, but the insular ones, absolutely not.
Insular, fundamentalist religious communities almost unanimously reject converts for the same reason they almost always reject (or highly limit) technology: they don't want their otherwise harmonious communities to be tainted by the influence of outsiders coming in, especially not modern people who will bring their late-capitalist conditioning into communities that adhere to a very rigid traditionalist doctrine.
I'm also Jewish like OP (even though I'm Torah-observant and would never seek to abandon my Jewishness) and will say the only two Hasidic groups that openly welcome converts into their ranks are the two most liberal ones: Chabad and Breslov. All the other Hasidic sects are open to converts but converting and joining them is almost impossible, because they are extremely strict about who they let in because they need their communities to be free of outside influence. My guess is that the Old Order Mennonites will be exactly the same way. They'll see a modern guy who was raised with a faith not their own, in a culture not their own, in a society not their own, and will be highly reluctant to let him join.
>>688351I used to watch this guy a lot
he was alright
>>687943They're ignorant and fall victim to the narrative of the Mennonites and Amish being stateless communists or some garbage like that. They think these religions are simply hippie communes that anyone can join for fun. They're actually cults that are highly restrictive with what they allow members to do, and their lifestyles have no benefits. It is NOT the same thing as living in an anarchist squat in some lively European city. No.
The Amish/Mennonites don't "live off the land" either. That's a myth I see perpetuated by both anarchists and far-right Christians like TradCaths (who also love the Amish for some reason despite the Catholic Church having severely persecuted Anabaptists). The Amish buy as much of their food as they grow themselves, if not more. They use propane and natural gas to heat their homes which are usually delivered to them by truck. They run small businesses (making them petit-bourg) where they sell furniture, quilts, baked goods, homemade butter, candies, and many other things, making them fully part of the capitalist economy. And yes they do run construction companies which make them a lot of money. Some of them even have summer homes that they hire people outside of their communities to drive them to.
Anyone who romanticizes the Amish is seriously retarded. They aren't some good little anarcho-communist Christians living in oppression-free communities. They're a hardline religious cult that's barely surviving due to generations of inbreeding, hundreds of members fleeing their communities every year for the modern world, and a very high suicide rate that would shock most people.
>>689372Perhaps but even so, if you're an aspiring communist, you should try everything in your power to become independent of capitalism.
I thought communists were supposed to be above it all?
>>689401>By that logic, far-right survivalists living off-grid are anti-capitalist.They're anarcho-capitalist.
>They only grow some of it on their own. They also run small businesses which bring in most of their income. They don’t live too differently from other rural folks they just reject a lot of modern technology and are super religious and culty. Yea, I guess the anti-tech thing is overblown by non-Amish as some cool steampunk aesthetic.
>And what’s really the difference between using natural gas to heat your home vs. electricity generated by renewable energy like hydro or solar?Now you know how I feel about people getting upset about learning done by computer vs book.
It matters not, all that matters is discipline.
Books can lie too.
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