[ home / rules / faq / search ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / lgbt / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta ] [ wiki / shop / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]

/siberia/ - Off-topic

"No chin, no right to speak."
Name
Options
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password(For file deletion.)

Not reporting is bourgeois


File: 1752479113330.jpg (13.69 KB, 308x163, stimtastic.jpg)

 

Is autism genuine or is just an excuse for people to have poor manners? Should autism be cured? Is applied behavioral therapy a genuine cure? Are autistic children basically just incels in training? You decide! This thread.

They need to bring back the Asperger's diagnosis, or at least create a new diagnosis for profound autism so actual retards won't be lumped in with Grammy-winning music producers and Nobel laureates.

I think some people should just be diagnosed with Something Wrong With You instead of autism

everyone is on the spectrum nowadays
If everyone is autist, nobody is autist right?

>>687961
The whole "everyone is little bit autistic" is just normie effort to feel special, they will still discriminate against you for not fitting in.

Everybody wants a diagnosis now because no one can handle the collapse of capitalism, and think having an autism diagnosis will exempt them from the chaos. It's identical to how so many young white women are becoming "tradwives".

I know three different people (all white women) who were diagnosed with autism at age 30, and they all said the first thing they did after being diagnosed was quit their job so they could focus on self-care. They call it "no longer abiding by neurotypical norms". I call it retardation.

>>687961
they diagnose anybody and everybody over there. and the way they do it is all fucked up

did we need a fourth thread about autism

>>687998
Yes, we need a couple more. I think we also need a couple more porn threads

Autism is a real epidemic but I agree that it's over diagnosed some what.

Autism should be cured or at least euthanized

>>687967
This.
Most "weirdness" that's celebrated is usually cliche edgelord jokes.

But try doing surreal humor.
No edge, no metaphorism.

People don't like that.

>>687958
Even most Aspies aren't capable of making grand masterpieces.

Most rude people I've met were allistic

>Is applied behavioral therapy a genuine cure?
<To get this out of the way, absolutely not.

The reason why it's so popular is that people think that it increases autism score and language as oppossed to vaguely or broadly defined "social skills". It's a whole can of worms but the science is unequivicably against this.

Firstly, behaviorist theory fails on a very basic level, as even in simple tasks like choosing one ball over the other or motivation to do chores, at the very least, rely more on observational learning, than reward or punishment, to be taught (Fiorito 1995, Rogoff 2024) with the former coming at the cost of latter, amd vice versa. I would go further to hypothesize that behavior doesn't exist, in the sense that there is no direct connection between an organism's activity and stimuli, and such activity is necessarily more sensitive to internal qualities such as language and emotion even in an extremely specific case like "little albert"; Albeit, I will not prejudice against the contrary theory, until further evidence is given.


This is why 90% of ABA therapists only work on very young children (18-36 months), who have severe language or intellectual problems, and usually for less than 20 hours a week for a year (or about 1,120 rendered hours total) using the Early Start Denver Model (Or ESDM); Even in a case similar to this, there was no long term improvements in either verbal or nonverbal autism score compared to a group which had almost no ABA whatsoever. The same is probably true for language as a lot of items on the communication section of the Vineland Adaptive Behavior Scale are language based. The results of general "social skills" were mixed (Estes 2015). As well the original sample was randomized(Cidav 2017), so the results here are more relevant than, say, Lovaas's 1987 study, which is very widely used.

And yes, you do have to prove that it does something to this calibur considering that it has been suggested to cause PTSD (Kupferstein 2018) and prompt dependence (Milley 2012). It's already a problem even in adults who are 'high-functioning' (Wilson 2014) who probably haven't recieved ABA specifically, so it could actually be even worse for those with more severe problems.

As well, it is questionable whether or not autistic children have social communicative deficits period (Li 2023). Nonverbal autistic people, likewise, must be presumed to have competence, as they at least have an acceptable performance autism score (Courchesne 2015), but are also have decent language skills, as evident by their literacy (Jaswal 2024)

And finally, to steelman, I will presume that behaviorists apply some compromised version of Relational Frame Theory (RFT) instead of trying making the child more "sociable" or getting rid of "problem behaviors". In a nutshell RFT is the theory that language is arbituary, as opposed to having a pre-existing mental concept, and is, ultimately built from simpler "behaviors"; While not direcrly calling for therapy, it is why ESDM exists, as well as why some behavioral elements can be found in programs like JASPER and TEAACH. RFT, however, is potentially harmful in that it can lead to people teaching an extremely simplified simulation of language as opposed to the actual thing, demonstrated by the failure to consider that there are at least some pre-linguistic cognitive processes, which can be presumed to be articulated later in life (Starr 2013, Kanakogi, 2022)

Research into this area of psychology is very complex, but when I bring up studies like this, and put the burden of evidence on myself people are like "B- But MUH LIVED EXPERIENCE" as if science cares that whether or not you're an autistic mother of autistic children, working with autistic children; It's funny that people say this when the point of behavioral psychology is to be as objective as possible (Albeit, the behaviorists have failed miserably in this respect).


Citations

<Cidav Z, Munson J, Estes A, Dawson G, Rogers S, Mandell D. Cost Offset Associated With Early Start Denver Model for Children With Autism. J Am Acad Child Adolesc Psychiatry. 2017 Sep;56(9):777-783. doi: 10.1016/j.jaac.2017.06.007. Epub 2017 Jul 4. PMID: 28838582; PMCID: PMC7007927.


<Courchesne V, Meilleur AA, Poulin-Lord MP, Dawson M, Soulières I. Autistic children at risk of being underestimated: school-based pilot study of a strength-informed assessment. Mol Autism. 2015 Mar 6;6:12. doi: 10.1186/s13229-015-0006-3. PMID: 25774281; PMCID: PMC4359559.


<Estes A, Munson J, Rogers SJ, Greenson J, Winter J, Dawson G. Long-Term Outcomes of Early Intervention in 6-Year-Old Children With Autism Spectrum Disorder. J Am Acad Child Adolesc Psychiatry. 2015 Jul;54(7):580-7. doi: 10.1016/j.jaac.2015.04.005. Epub 2015 Apr 28. PMID: 26088663; PMCID: PMC4475272.


<Fiorito G, Chichery R. Lesions of the vertical lobe impair visual discrimination learning by observation in Octopus vulgaris. Neurosci Lett. 1995 Jun 9;192(2):117-20. doi: 10.1016/0304-3940(95)11631-6. PMID: 7675317.


<Jaswal, V. K., Lampi, A. J., & Stockwell, K. M. (2024). Literacy in nonspeaking autistic people. Autism, 28(10), 2503-2514. doi: 10.1177/13623613241230709 


<Kanakogi, Y., Miyazaki, M., Takahashi, H. et al. Third-party punishment by preverbal infants. Nat Hum Behav 6, 1234–1242 (2022). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41562-022-01354-2


<Kupferstein, Henny. (2018). Evidence of increased PTSD symptoms in autistics exposed to applied behavior analysis. Advances in Autism. 4. 00-00. 10.1108/AIA-08-2017-0016.


<Li B, Blijd-Hoogewys E, Stockmann L, Vergari I, Rieffe C. Toward feeling, understanding, and caring: The development of empathy in young autistic children. Autism. 2023 Jul;27(5):1204-1218. doi: 10.1177/13623613221117955. Epub 2022 Aug 23. PMID: 35999700; PMCID: PMC10291379.


<Milley, Allison & Machalicek, Wendy. (2012). Decreasing Students’ Reliance on Adults A Strategic Guide for Teachers of Students With Autism Spectrum Disorders. Intervention in School and Clinic. 48. 67-75. 10.1177/1053451212449739.


<Rogoff B, Aceves-Azuara I. Mother-child collaboration in an Indigenous community: Changing and enduring across generations. Child Dev. 2024 Nov-Dec;95(6):1858-1878. doi: 10.1111/cdev.14181. Epub 2024 Nov 14. PMID: 39540594; PMCID: PMC11579644.


<Starr A, Libertus ME, Brannon EM. Number sense in infancy predicts mathematical abilities in childhood. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2013 Nov 5;110(45):18116-20. doi: 10.1073/pnas.1302751110. Epub 2013 Oct 21. PMID: 24145427; PMCID: PMC3831472.


<Wilson, Bronwyn & Beamish, Wendi & Hay, Stephen & Attwood, Tony. (2014). Prompt Dependency Beyond Childhood: Adults With Asperger’s Syndrome and Intimate Relationships. Journal of Relationship Research. 5. 1-11. 10.1017/jrr.2014.11.


Unique IPs: 11

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / rules / faq / search ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / lgbt / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta ] [ wiki / shop / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]