/siberia/ - Off-topic

I'm sure there are, I can't be arsed to think any at the moment though.

>>711405
America was anti-fascist in WWII. They were fighting the fascists.

I already know all the nitpicks, you don't need to recite them to me, they're just there to make the Soviet Union and its contribution to the war look better. But the thing is, this is meaningless. All the Allies contributed to victory over the Axis.

>>711414
And this is the result of letting people water down a term. The US at that time was not fascist.

I mean if you agree with the US left backpedaling recently that Antifa isn‘t a coherent group but instead the action of dismantling fascism itself then, yeah, Americans troops in WW2 who would lynch uyghurs at home would be anti-fascists.

>>711422
lmao

Why did America ally with literal communists anyway?
t. historylet

>>711418
>>711420
While you are correct that the USA was not fascist, the sentiment isn't wrong. Corporate monopolies funded Hitler and NSDAP, they controlled the Weimar Government and had them repress socialist movements while turning a blind eye to the rioting and bloodshed of the Brownshirts. The Nazi warmachine was fed and watered by the investments, oil and industry of these very same capitalists. The only reason Britain and the USA turned on Germany instead of staying neutral is because (for the latter) Japan attacked the USA and Germany was obligated to declare war due to the Axis Pact. And Britain couldn't tolerate France being taken and so be threatened by Germany. Ideally, had the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact not been signed the Germans would have advanced on the USSR and left Western Europe alone (at least that was the naive hope)

TL;DR: A better phrase would be Imperialists fighting Fascists

>>711426
For the same reason Stalin allied with Capitalist America; the Enemy of your Enemy is your Ally

>>711410
They were not ideologically anti-fascist. They supported the former fascist collaborators in Greece before the war was even over.

Well America was anti fascist during ww2. It was one of the few good wars we fought along with the revolution and the civil war. America committed several wars during the war especially in the pacific theater but I will admit that It is gross that we take credit for it when even the British Empire which was worse than America at the time btw lost more men (though they did sort of cause it to happen by aiding Germany so much)

>>711426
Nazi Germany went full retard and attacked Poland and France instead of attacking the Soviet Union first

>>711441
You do realize that Germany didn't share a border with the USSR, right? The original plan Hitler had with Pilsudski was to fight against the USSR with Poland, after the latter died, Poland's cowardly generals didn't want to risk an outright war with the USSR which led to Germany seeking to take over Poland, prompting the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

Add to that the fact that France was technically a Polish Ally and that Germany resented their loss of WW-1 France was an obvious target, especially with it's Atlantic ports and Mediterranean access

>>711437
Yes. Anti-fascism is a movement with antagonism to fascism as a principle, not just a result of realpolitick against geopolitical opponents.

>>711452
Antifatards are all class collaborationist popular frontists (democratic retards who endorse fascism in the end), the antifascist package is already included in the anti capitalism from communism™ the real movement ™, any antifas outside the real movement are fake fraudulent succdems, find the official version of communism at https://www.international-communist-party.org/ and beware of fake sites, the real site is always international-communist-party.org, beware of falsifiers, modernizers and deniers who want to steal your support. Remember to write fuck antifa and 1161 for the real movement which knows the only way to do away with fascism is through the real struggle against capitalism which does not require collaboration with renegades (traitors), the bourgeoisie or any non-ICP (.org) endorsed elements.

>>711446
You got the first part right:
https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/writers/gordon/1933/06/plot.htm
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Heinrich_Himmler_and_Kordian_Zamorski_1939_in_Warsaw.jpg

But:
French, British and American capitalists built up the German defense industry after WW1, Versailles, hyperinflation, and the crash of '29. German arms producers were allowed to move their manufacturing to Sweden or Switzerland and continue their work throughout the interwar period, Britain even made a naval deal in 1935 to allow the rearmament of a German navy. Weimar and later Nazi Germany was blocked from having over 150k men-at-arms, but was allowed to have an unlimited reservist pool.

The German and French industries were so intertwinted beforehand and throughout WW2 that the Atlantikwall was fully built using French firms and political enemies and PoWs as forced labourers.

DuPont's Irénée du Pont financed Hitler and had factories in the Third Reich.
Ford financed Hitler and had factories there too.

Hitler was being built up as big counter revolution against the Soviets, but they didn't know how stupid fascists could be, biting the hand that feeds them.
There was no value in invading Poland or France or Britain because the war was lost from the start, just compare the Axis vs Allied GDP.

>>711457
No one thinks you're funny.

>>711410
>>711431

if anything its just a testament to how aggressively and unsustainably violent and retarded the nazi application of fascism was since they somehow managed to get the the declining capitalist power, the rising capitalist power and only socialist power on the same side against them. literally war of the triple alliance tier

>>711463
Just because Germany had French assistance in rearmament doesn't mean that resentment over losing WW1 didn't exist, kinda goes hand in hand with the nationalist propaganda. And again, France was strategically important to Germany's military reach, the U-boat submarine pens and shipyards were key to mid-and south-Atlantic Operations

when i am fighting people who want to make america more fascist, i say america was anti fascist in ww2

when i am fighting people who are already anti fascist and still have liberal brain worms, I talk about stuff like this:

>>711433
>They were not ideologically anti-fascist. They supported the former fascist collaborators in Greece before the war was even over.

Make sense?

>>711433
Same goes for the USSR then since they threw Greek revolutionaries to the wolves

I think when there's several people involved, as expected of a country, it's gradiential. Plus with immanent critique you can consider things that self contradict anti-themselves. I.e. south korean anti-feminists pressuring gachas into having character convestations always pass the bechdel test as to not NTR the user, inadvertently making the work feminist.

>>711515
France was only strategically important after the fact that the Anglo-US faction was now an enemy, no enemy in London, no U-Boat bases needed.

>>711536
>France was only strategically important after the fact that the Anglo-US faction was now an enemy
LOL, LMAO even. Germany had limited access to the Atlantic and had no intention of stopping its expansionism. It intended to dominate the West either way, Greater Germany and all that, it doesn't matter if there was no enemy in London or not, they needed those ports for trade and resources.

>>711521
No you infinite moron, it isn't even close to the same. Part of the Great 3 agreements during WW2 were deals on spheres of influence between the USSR and The West. Greece was, like Palestine, a British protectorate, with its king being directly related to the British Monarchy, thus at Yalta the USSR agreed it would remain in the UK's sphere of influence. The USSR didn't want to provoke war right after WW2. For the same reasons the USSR withdrew from Austria. The Greek leftist movement was also comparatively small and the USSR had no way to properly support it if it chose to. They lacked the immense fleet power the West had and to reach Greece would have to transport maratime forces through the Bosphorus, controlled by the Turks which were also Western allies and which were enemies of the Greeks anyway. The most Stalin could do was reinforce Tito's position in Macedonia and prevent any Western coup attempts.

Quoting from William Bloom's book Killing Hope
>"At a meeting with Yugoslav leaders in early 1948 (a few months before Yugoslavia's break with the Soviet Union), described by Milovan Djilas, second-in-command to Tito, Stalin turned to the foreign minister Edvard Kardelj and asked: "Do you believe in the success of the uprising in Greece?"
>Kardelj replied, "If foreign intervention does nor grow, and if serious political and military errors are not made."
>Stalin went on, without paying attention to Kardelj's opinion: "If, if! No, they have no prospect of success at all. What, do you think that Great Britain and the United States — the United States, the most powerful state in the world — will permit you to break their line of communication in the Mediterranean? Nonsense. And we have no navy. The uprising in Greece must be stopped, and as quickly as possible."

Stalin was absolutely correct and it is unrealistic to expect anything otherwise, even the Koreans, Chinese and Vietnamese, who were in much better positions to rebel and get Soviet military aid did so with minor Soviet help for the first few years because the USSR did not have the resources to spare. It's people were starving, it's cities destroyed and simultaneously it was racing to complete its Atomic Bomb. When the USSR recovered it began doing just that, starting from the Korean War to helping Mao push out the Chiang Kai Shek to Taiwan and reinforce Ho Chi Minh's position against the French.

>>711587
so true