Does anyone have any good material to understand how this whole semiconductor industry operates? Not the physics but the business.
>>18601>people who know very little about the subject.like yourself? they have been shipping 7nm chips at least since 2021 but didn't publicize it so the west only found out in 2022
the bloomberg article here
>>15971 quotes a techinsights report from 2022 where they basically say that they found 7nm chips in a chinese bitcoin miner they were analyzing. minerva (the company that designs and sells that SoC) had been selling this particular miner since mid 2021. smic process is scalable and viable
>build its own tools because the government will foot the bill is hardly a new idea, countries have triedand succeeded, take the united states for example: the department of energy funded the EUV LLC, a consortium of three american companies that developed all the important parts for EUV lithography. the most important company of those three is cymer, a firm from texas that manufactures the EUV light sources necessary for the EUV process and that ASML was basically forced to buy
so although ASML is dutch in name, all the important R&D comes from the US, in part funded by venture capital, in part funded by the american state. and I'm sure that you would find even more state money if you were to dig into the "venture capital" part. this might surprise you, but is a common practice for the government to finance research and then give away the results to the private sector (but not the broad public) basically for free
tl;dr
>subsidies for me, not for thee
>>15971this is both an old article (2022) and a nothingburger.
this is the limit of the DUV technology, the fact that china managed to do this is impressive but without newer machines they cant get beyond 7nmn. Meanwhile TSMC, Intel, etc. will be getting into the angstrom era.
https://www.pcgamer.com/intel-puts-tsmc-on-notice-with-step-towards-angstrom-era-chips/see this article from 2 weeks ago.
>Intel says it has completed development of its upcoming 20A and 18A chip production processes. The first chips built on the first of these new nodes—the 20A node—will be made in the first half of next year.20 angstrom is 2nm. I.E. non chinese companies are already using EUV lithography to make 2 and 1.8 nm nodes.
>>18528>Previous reports have indicated that Loongson's 3A6000 processor will allegedly provide performance that is on par with AMD's Ryzen 5000 CPUs and Intel's 11th-Gen Core CPUs, which both debuted in 2020.yes and later this year intel will be making chips that are far faster and smaller than what they did before.
>>18850are there any obvious advantages or use cases? beside like EMP resistance and audiophile applications?
>>18858huh so is intel finally going to stop making dogshit ovens?
>>18861…theres sanctions on china?
Isnt there the blaringly obvious issue of support for these Chinese chip architectures? Would they actually be supported or will they be ignored?
>>18859They're faster than transistors
>>18861>poached Taiwan engineers once that speed bumb has been surpassed.for the last time, the taiwan/TSMC engineers USE lithography equipment, producing chips using that equipment vs engineering the equipment to begin with are totally different fields!
>>18866>USE lithography equipment, producing chips using that equipment vs engineering the equipment to begin with are totally different fields!how2 diy?
>>18863yeah it will be problem if they aim towards like towards consumer GPU's for PCs since they basically need to construct new APIs and have to get software devs to support them to compete. Won't be as big of a problem if they aim towards tailor made solutions, internal market or make like phone SoCs that they can more easily control and already have open source software.
>>18867bro shit is along the lines of proprietary tech made with cutting edge applied physics you don't just "DIY"
>>18901You realize they're not reliable, easy to make, affordable or usable in good yields?
Its nice that we have people learning the ways, but it won't replace how many decades from this we are now.
>>10378would have to be some kind of special X-Ray microscope or regular electron microscope, both of which are likely to damage whatever they scan, and then still it'd only be practical to check small parts at a time, unless some kind of algorithmic solution is used.
>>15893oop, guess I'm too late
Open Source tastes best when forced anyways
>>20127forced? no, no, this is just a
special libre update
>>15893holy BASED
when will we have home-bootstrappable low tech CPUs to cascade in like 5 cycles of re-etching upwards into formally verified FOSS CPUs? 50 years?
>>21476This, coupled with what seems to be Huawei's superior android app compiler than can increase performance by more than 30%, Huawei is in a great position.
https://www.xda-developers.com/huawei-ark-compiler-android-app-performance/Not sure how common this Ark compiler is and it doesn't necessarily work with google play store downloaded apps, unfortunately. Other than that, I might get a huawei as my next phone. I got the cheapest compatible pixel phone and installed grapheneOS. It's not too bad but I do wonder how effective it is.
>>21476FYI best that intel now has in raptor lake is around 7nm process in raptor lake. AMD has TSMC 5nm equivalent in 7000 series. Not that those nm counts are really accurate for real comparison.
>>21477I can't find this compiler. This is the only thing I have found, but it is described as an AOT compiler for JavaScript and TypeScript:
https://gitee.com/openharmony/docs/blob/master/en/readme/ARK-Runtime-Subsystem.md
>>10249there's a cool project under development that's basically a combination of a CPU and GPU (which is useful because mobile GPUs are proprietary as hell)
https://libre-soc.org/
>>22770>cool project under development that's basically a combination of a CPU and GPUWhy not just say SOC? It literally is that.
>>22787it's different than that, normal SOCs have multiple devices side by side in the same package, this is literally a CPU that you can run GPU calculations on. it's implemented through the instruction set instead of device drivers and MMIO
RISC laptop* incoming for $300. The end of history is over anons.
https://www.cnx-software.com/2024/04/30/muse-book-laptop-spacemit-k1-octa-core-risc-v-ai-processor-16gb-ram/*with decent specs, screen and connectivity
>>25345Arm is RISC, it's even in the name.
it's really scary that this arcane tech is held exclusively by three corporations and also that most of the global production of this technology is concentrated in taiwan. isn't the fact of cpu designs that they're bootstrapped a million times? and that because of it no engineer knows why or how any cpu design works?
>>25345They buried the lede on this device. It has a RVA22 CPU with RVV (Vector) 1.0.
Finally, we're seeing devices with the important batch of extensions ratified December 2021.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40314731
>>25345This is sick, how can I ship this to the states?
>>25345Will it run Qubes OS?
>>25345>>25367But does it respect your freedom? These are basically chromebook specs with slightly worse battery life.
>>10237Lainchan is better than most chans but the users seem a little sus to me
Is there any significant advances in Chinese tech working to make a desktop OS to compete with Windows or Mac? Can't wait to run a fully anti 5 eyes device.
>>25381Why do you think it was posted, anon? Why would somebody post a laptop with those specs?
>>25599Chinese SoCs are notorious for not running mainline Linux and having weird proprietary drivers.
>>25347ARM and Risc-V architectures are both Risc, but ARM is not Risc-V nor are they compatible.
>>25421>>25345Framework also has RISC-V (dev) mainboard coming to their laptops. It's all Chinese I believe.
Unique IPs: 28