Is an AR-15 the best rifle to get if you're looking to arm yourself? I know it's incredibly popular in the US, but I'm not sure how much of that is just people trying to operator larp.
Pros:
- Cheap ammo
- Ample parts
- Easy to use
Cons:
- Complex
- Low powered round
- High-profile sights
73 posts and 27 image replies omitted.>>2577Stamped is better, but milling is cheaper if your production quantities are not high enough. Plus there is a lot of technological nuances in stamping.
Also AR are not milled, they are drop forged.
>milled AKs are actually better tooI dont know about non-Soviet AK derivatives, but in the ex-USSR countries milled AK are a rarity - they have beed out of production for half a century, and for a good reason. Milled is heavy, and you don't want your rifle to be heavy.
Also replying to this thread in general.
0)You need to LEARN SHOOTING. Buy PCP airgun or .22 LR and train A LOT. Airgun/.22LR skills are 100% transferable to any larger-caliber firearm.
1)Your rifle NEED to have optics. Both Soviet Abakan and USA ACR trials determinde that fitting a 5.5 mm rifle with an optic sight increase its combat efficiency by the factor 1.5-1.7. It's so important that you better buy subpar rifle with good scope than top tier AR with no scope. 1-6x30 var magnification wide angle is your best choice. 3x or 4x wide angle (12 deg or so) second best.
2)Your gun need to fire 5.5 mm ammo. 5.45 is better than 5.56 (flatter trajectory, better ballistics both outer and terminal, by 300-400 m it will have more energy than 5.55), but more important factor is ammo availability. Living in NATO country you will probably find 5.56 cheaper and more abundant.
7.62 is much worse, unless you do subsonic loads in 7.62x39.
3)Your gun need to be reliable and serviceable. Your comrade need to know how to use your gun, you need to know how to use your comrade's gun. Therefore it's best to get a derivative of your country standart issue rifle. Well, don't go and buy L85, but brits cant into guns anyway.
4)Good muzzle device is a must. Fitting AK-74-style muzzle break/flas hider on an AR decrease burst spread like 2 or 3 times and improves overall combat efficiency 10 to 25%. No need to get exact replica, any good working muzzle break/flash hider/compensator combo works. Precision Armaments AFAB seems to be one of the best options rn, providing about 50% recoil impulse reduction and near-perfect flash dissipation.
Or go with a tactical supressor. Reducing sound signature can be more important that improving rapid-fire control, depending on situation.
Go also get NVG or night scpoe, if you can afford it. Immense edge in any low-light situation and general situation awareness during nighttime. War revolves around knowing where your enemy is and not letting the enemy to know where you are. Any means toward these are a great force multiplier.
TL;DR buy an 5.56 rifle with a good scope, AR if in USA.
>>2598You probably misread my post, or I was not clear enough. The point is muzzle break is more effective at improving control at full auto or rapid fire than supressor.
However, supressor _does_ provide some recoil mitigation, as it stops and slowly expands powder gases, greatly reducing or nullifying their impulse.
Precoil=Pgas+Pbullet
Pgas=Vgas (higher than bullet V0) x Mpowder
For M855 Mpowder = 1.7 g or 26 gr for you burgers, Mbullet=4 g or 62 gr
Therefore a good supressor can reduce your recoil impulse by a third or so.
Muzzle break, OTOH, have a theoretical maximum effectiveness of about 120-140% - I dont remember exact values, it was backk in the uni in external ballistic course. Yeah, it can make your gun recoil forward. Practical designs which don't kick up a ton of dust and rupture your neighbour eardrum have 50-60% efficiency.
So, practical muzzle break is about 2x as effective as prractical suppressor in reducing recoil.
>put an AK muzzle device on your ARThat's LITERALLY what US Army did back in the 80s when they felt fed up with AR15 derivatives and were trying to replace or at least improve M16. Did you ever opened pic1 in my post?
Also I specifically made a point of using whatever effective muzzle device one can find and gave an AR-native candidate, PA AFAB (or EFAB if you want that extra exquisite looking 3%).
>AK where putting a suppressor on it burns your faceClose fitting ballistic glasses are your friends. Still a stinky endeavor, but supressed subsonic Saiga-9 is neat.
>ever fired a gun in real lifeWrong. It just some theory may seem contrintuitive or unothrodox, while still being true.
>>2596>Stamped is better, but milling is cheaper You have that absolutely backwards. Milling will always be stiffer then a stamped sheet. Just use basic logic and/or research it.
>Also AR are not milled, they are drop forged. They're both, but even the forged ones are milled.
>>2602>For a given weight stamped part will always be stiffer than milled due to strain hardening.>for a given weightOk if weight is your main concern, whatever, we're talking about which gun is going to be stiffer(durable, accurate), a forged/milled AR or a stamped AK(or a milled AK for that matter.) That's why the PSG-1 adds extra metal to the outside of the receiver to stiffen it.
>Stamped is better, but milling is cheaper Absolutely wrong on the price. Look it up. Stamping is the cheaper method.
>>2603>PSG-1 B/c G3 receiver were not that rigid to begin with. Lenghtwise-cut pipe loses 90% of its rigidity, and G3 is exactly that. AK receiver, being a box reinforced with ribs and several transverse axles, is far more geometrically rigid/stable to begin with. The only (somewhat) weak part of the design with regard to accurcy/stability is handguard. Free-floating handguard nearly eliminates PoI drift from different shooting positions - both on AK and AR.
>which gun is going to be stiffer(durable, accurate)Of no practical concern. Soviet AK-74s are still going durable and (reasonably - say, 3 MOA) accurate, and when they aren't, it's not due to "flimsy" receiver - it's due to barrel wear after 10 or 20 thousands of 5.45.
No one needs a super durable ultra accurate extra long life rifle - a gun must be more accurate than its shooter, and durable enough to survive a few years of warfare. Anything more is just more useless dead mass in your hands, day in and day out.
>Stamping is the cheaper methodThe tooling for a quality stamped receiver is going to cost 10x or even 100x more than tooling for milled receiver. Stamping presses, punching presses, automatic welding, punches and dies versus a single CNC machine, or even a mill, lathe and drill press. The end product of stamping will be cheaper only for really large batches - say, on the order of 100 000 rifles or more.
>>2688At high velocity - in other words, at close range - typical 5.56 bullet fragment very easily, so effects from large temporary cavity from hydrodynamic deceleration of high-speed projectile and purely mechanical shredding from fragments compound, tearing away good chunk of tissue.
Arm wound is from George Floyd protest, near point-blank shot from a civilian AR-15, so bullet type unknown. Yellow knee is military round, so no HP. I'm not totatally sure, though.
>>2713Sure, never disputed any of that. Just was replying to the guy that was talking about multiple shotgun blasts. I think one blast on any exposed area will probably take you out of commission, I reckon any pistol blast to the head will probably fell you too.
Either way, if you can score one shot, you can probably score two if you're composed.
>>2757How often tho?
>Handgun rounds simply don't have enough kinetic energy to reliably stop assailants when struck in non-vital organswhat is a vital organ?
a few .22s aimed in the right spot will definitely disrupt if not immediately kill a person no? I mean a plate carrier only covers like two thirds of the front and back torso of a person+maybe side armour, that plus a helmet and chances are you are still going to hit someone in some unprotected areas with a few shots at close range. Even one in a limb is likely to break a bone or hit an artery or cause a temporary loss of function in that limb I would imagine. Even with a smaller caliber pistol.
>>3234That is basically what a battle rifles where. Among other issues the recoil is terrible and you can't carry as much ammunition as with intermediate cartridges. They already are in service though with 7.62x51 NATO AR pattern rifles used by some designated marksmen. 7.62x51 is just a slightly modified .308 Winchester with I think a slightly lower cartridge pressure/powder load and weight.
>>3235Why? .308 isn't even a good sniping round other than it is relatively cheap in many countries.
>>1824>- Low powered roundCompared to what?
>- Complexagain, compared to what?
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