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/AKM/ - Guns, weapons and the art of war.

"War can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun." - Chairman Mao
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File: 1652557465416.jpg (83.05 KB, 992x744, ar-15s.jpg)

 No.1824

Is an AR-15 the best rifle to get if you're looking to arm yourself? I know it's incredibly popular in the US, but I'm not sure how much of that is just people trying to operator larp.

Pros:
- Cheap ammo
- Ample parts
- Easy to use

Cons:
- Complex
- Low powered round
- High-profile sights

 No.1837

it werks

 No.1838

They are mass-produced with a huge aftermarket and a very good value for what it is. $500 on average. Inexpensive easy to find ammo. I think they're just a little boring and they're not really ideal for home defense or any sort of hunting.

A good alternative might be a C308 if you want something bigger. Or go with a 12ga pump action or hi-point carbine if you're broke and mainly concerned with home defense. I'm a cheap bastard and thus biased toward gud/cheep.

 No.1840

File: 1652812480249.png (3.94 MB, 1500x1125, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1824
>Is an AR-15 the best rifle to get if you're looking to arm yourself?
Yeah probably. Most amount of manufacturers. I think more important is deciding what caliber you're going to use and you should use a cheap caliber for you to stockpile. You can get AK style guns in 5.56 if that's your preferred style. The only major advantage to the AR would be more compatible hardware and magazines.

I'm personally a fan of G3 style weapons. They're basically only one company that makes them in The US and I heard their recent batches had shit quality control. So yeah it's mostly on the manufacturer and also how good the batch was as well.

 No.1841

>>1824
Ammo availability is the most important factor. Your fancy gun is just a piece of metal without bullets. Alway think about logistics in military matters.

 No.1842

File: 1652812600277.png (14.55 MB, 4032x3024, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1838
>A good alternative might be a C308 if you want something bigger.
King. But you can also get ARs in 308.

 No.1844

>>1842
Basic AR-10 is like $1,500 though. C308 is half that price and a true block stamped sheet metal weapon of the proletariat. They look badass also. Downside is C308s are basically refurbished service weapons and the design isn't especially accurate.

 No.1845

File: 1652829362361.png (699.66 KB, 1100x1100, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1844
>Downside is C308s are basically refurbished service weapons and the
Service for who? Police? They're civilian models of the G3. You can also do a PTR build in 308.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/ptr-91-vs-cetme-significant-differences.221533/
>In terms of build quality, the PTR is a few floors up. The PTRs, however, are much closer to being brand new guns than the CETMEs. The PTR receivers are built on former FMP machinery licensed by HK. The CETME receivers are built by some privateers.

>If you are just looking for something to shoot with, the CETMEs could be the way to go, provided you find one that works (as noted by others, some have not functioned well) and don't mind the unrefined build quality and upside down safety. The two CETMEs I have have worked fine. The PTR also the same.


You can also convert it to the famous PSG1 more or less.

https://www.hkpro.com/threads/hk-91-to-psg-1-conversion.101115/

>really????? talk to some urbach PSG-1 owners see what kinda groups their getting. your right in the fact that it will NEVER actually be a PSG-1. but if i can get the same or better performance with the look of one for 6000$ less i think i'll go with that. and all the ones i've seen go up for sale that dont sell within 3 days are all built by some guy who thought a hesse or a federal arms receiver was just the coolest thing they have ever seen.


>Exactly. I met a guy at Urbach's one day with one of his PSG1s. Urbach uses I think Doublass barrel blanks, and machines the PSG1 profile on them. That guy gets sub .5 MOA groups with it, and he had some of the targets in his truck. The best group was about .28" center to center. It's as much a PSG1 as all of the MP5s made from HK94s and HK53s made from HK93s. No, it's not an actual PSG1, but can shoot better than an actual PSG1.

 No.1846

>>1841
If you are concerned about combat effectiveness then you are gonna wanna read up on shit like homemade explosives and artillery, although rifles are still very important for guerilla warfare. I am going to make a thread on suppresed and even "silent" guns as well a .22 is a good investment. 5.56 is a decent round which is pretty cheap and available in North America, look into reloading as well.

 No.1847

>>1838
Serious question: What's the point in getting a semi-auto rifle in a full caliber rifle round? Just for fun/aesthetics?

 No.1851

>>1847
I don't get what you are saying. So you have a rifle caliber. What are you suggesting? Pistol caliber? Pistols only have an advantage of less overpenetration.

 No.1855

>>1847
It will definitely fuck on whatever armor anyone is wearing, which I think is something to genuinely keep in mind when America has just had a shooting where the shooter wore armor to specifically counter the local security, and I do think armor will only become more commonplace with time. Rip your shoulder though.
>>1851
I think he wants to know what the modern purpose of something like an SVT-40 would be

 No.1859

>>1855
Oh well even the army has abandoned 5.56 now. They sized up to 6.8-millimeter (. 277-caliber)

.308 just donks better.

>Rip your shoulder though.

Only if you are a weakling.

 No.1864

>>1859
China are also swapping to 6.8 iirc, wonder how long it will take for it and the new armor to become so prolific they swap back to 7.62

 No.1871

>>1851
>>1855
I meant full caliber rifle cartridge like .308 or 7.62x51. I don't see any point in using like a battle rifle unless you just happen to like that gun, although most models will be available in an intermediary chambering like 5.56 or 7.62x39.
>It will definitely fuck on whatever armor anyone is wearing, which I think is something to genuinely keep in mind when America has just had a shooting where the shooter wore armor to specifically counter the local security, and I do think armor will only become more commonplace with time
Armour piercing 5.56 or 7.62x39 or 5.45x39 etc will penetrate almost all armour sufficiently. Just as well or possibly better than a full sized rifle cartridge as far as I know. The only thing that would pen better would be like .30-06 (7.62x63) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-06_Springfield which is an armour level (IV) higher than 5.56/7.62x39 steel core is rated for
>Rip your shoulder though.
Yes that is one of the many reasons that full caliber rifle cartridges were abandoned

 No.1873

>>1859
>Oh well even the army has abandoned 5.56 now. They sized up to 6.8-millimeter (. 277-caliber)
Most of their rifles and most newly developed guns are in 5.56. IMO the 6.8 thing is some MIC scheme to get to sell new everything. Even on the 6.8 prototypes they use now with the wax caseless ammunition, the recoil is much worse than with 5.56
>.308 just donks better.
5.56 and 5.45 both have just as much wounding and lethality potential as .308 as far as I am aware and both will fly flatter and longer, and more accurately with far less recoil and a smaller and lighter cartridge that enables the carrying of much more ammunition for the same weight. This is especially true of the 5.45x39 which IMO is one of the best cartridges available today and if you live in Eastern Europe you can get it for dirt cheap. It's restriced in the US because it's just way to competitive with 5.56x45
>>Rip your shoulder though.
>Only if you are a weakling.
The recoil makes it much less accurate and harder to train and shoot with

 No.1875

>>1864
7.62 has the same or worse armour penetration and other characteristics as 5.45x39 or what China is reporting about some of their rounds, which they claim offer better ballistics to 5.45x39 Soviet/Russian

 No.1880

>>1871
>>1875
My bad I wasn't clear enough, I was referring to the 7.62×54mmR because of the references to full sized rifle calibre semiautos, which made the SVT-40 spring to mind. The armor penetration on that one is good isn't it?

 No.1881

>>1873
>5.56 and 5.45 both have just as much wounding and lethality potential as .308
Nah I agree with you. I would do 5.56 as my main rifle. Another plus is it's cheaper than .308 I think. .308 is good because it can double as a hunting rifle for large game. But for a human sized target 5.56 is more than enough.

 No.1882

>>1880
People here confuse broad logistics based military decisions of generals vs what you have can work with.

.308 isn't good at penetration of armor it has mediocre velocity and sectional density. It won't defeat level III steel plates that say, .220 Swift which will blow right through with a 47gr bullet.

What all the battle-rifle armed latam armies have in abundance that you don't is SLAP ammo because it's banned.

 No.1905

File: 1652932910825.gif (397.5 KB, 245x138, 1414754459582.gif)

>5.56 and 5.45 both have just as much wounding and lethality potential as .308

 No.1915

>>1905
5.56x45 NATO has perhaps slightly less wounding power than 7.62x51 NATO rounds of similar properties, like fmj to fmj. They both will reliably incapacitate and kill with a well placed shot at this range. 7.62x51 is perhaps significantly more lethal after 300 metres when many 5.56 rounds lose enough energy to not expand or fragment properly. Modern 5.45x39 Soviet/Russian is more lethal than comparable 5.56 rounds (fmj-fmj etc.). 5.45x39 also retains more energy at greater ranges than 5.56x45. 5.45x39 would carry sufficient energy and accuracy at the ranges you would normally use a 7.62x51 rifle, e.g. 800 metres.

 No.1999

>>1824
use AK-47 so u can larp as a commie or insurgent


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