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/AKM/ - Guns, weapons and the art of war.

"War can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun." - Chairman Mao
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File: 1652840485370-1.png (261.13 KB, 547x649, ClipboardImage.png)


Thought we should have a caliber discussion since we keep having it in different threads.


5.45x39 is the overall best standard infantry cartridge in use by a country's military CMV


File: 1653137238241.png (456.51 KB, 1333x933, fury-2.png)

The US armed force will allegedly adopt the .277 Fury or 6.8×51mm for their new m5 rifle and m250 machine gun though.


I'd cum bricks for a .338 lapua semiautomatic rifle


Does this shit actually matter for individuals? Only armies with millions of small arms planning to fight against other armies need to worry about terminal ballistic performance against body armor.


It isn't that hard to manufacture or reload bullets. If there is only one calibre available and no manufacturing ability then use that one, otherwise it's worth considering what bullet you or your squad are gonna carry.


I don't know anything about this but just looks like something inbetween a 5.56 and 7.62x51 NATO.


>24 round standard mags
Yup looks like a heavier and more bulky cartridge with the associated problems. Probably more recoil than 5.56 too which is already much worse than 5.45x39


>Gen. Mark Milley, then Army chief of staff, told Congress in May 2017 that body armor as cheap as $250 could stop the 5.56 mm rounds fired by the M4 and M249.
More like 100 dollars homebrewed not to mention the thousands the army pays for a set of plates


I think the idea is to gear up for a war against China and Russia who use body armor against which 5.56 is non ideal


The story of .277 Fury is such a funny one to me

>US military industrial complex has been trying to replace the M16/M4 for decades

>Eventually someone says enough is enough and the military HAS to replace the gun now
>Russia has been demonstrating advanced body armor, and there are rumors they might sell it to China and Iran
>And hey, China is where everyone buys cheap NIJ IV anyway
>So the new round has to be able to punch through NIJ IV at 100yds

>three years pass

>the winning rifle is selected, it's high recoil but accurate as hell and the new scope basically turns infantry into aimbots
>Russia invades Ukraine
>Everyone starts noticing some issues
>not only did that advanced body armor never get made, but their troops are often sent into battle with FUCKING CARDBOARD shoved in their plate carriers

It's literally the same shit as with the MiG-25. Russia spends their money on demonstrating a plane that goes really fast and does nothing else, the US freaks out and develops a next generation fighter jet that obliterates any chance of competition for the next twenty years, and then it's revealed that the US overreacted and developed futuristic weapons to counter a military that literally steals washing machines for spare cash.




>he thinks they were preparing for Russia.

Chinese Army To Procure 1.4 Million Units Of Body Armor



Officially it was for "near-peer threats," so Russia/China/Iran. The program started in 2017, back when Russia was showing off Ratnik (which never existed) and personal armor that could stop .50 BMG dead in its tracks (which also didn't exist). The US was preparing Ukraine for an invasion that they knew was coming, which is why they originally wanted the winner chosen by October of last year, but further testing was required and it got delayed another 6 months.

The PLA didn't even mention the need for body armor until a year later in their 2018 roadmap, and didn't order any until two years after that. I find it kind of strange that the Chinese waited so long, because Americans had been buying cheap Chinese ceramic plates on Wish.com for years prior (though only about 5% were as strong as advertised, most were just hard plastic or incredibly shitty quality, a few were good).


.277 is just 7.62x51 NATO lite. They are gonna jam up their logistics and blow their budget for nothing. Even the nearly 50 year old Soviet 5.45x39 7n6 that Russia has largely replaced with newer cartridge variants is superior and more practical for war between modern armies.


First pic is not a good representation of the comparison of different calibers and shows or claims to show a comparison of fragmenting 5.56x45 NATO and non-fragmenting early 5.45x39 Soviet. Also keep in minf that the material is a DOD publication. There is a bias online against 5.45x39 Soviet compared to 5.56x45 NATO among American gun enthusiasts. However this bias is based in national myths and idpol as opposed to any real data. In my opinion the wounding capacity of 5.45x39 Soviet/Russian is superior to 5.56 NATO when comparing old to old and new to new. This is in addition to other metrics of comparison such as range, bullet drop, recoil, weight, armour penetration, that again in my opinion place 5.45x39 Soviet as a superior round to 5.56 NATO.


Caliber is actually kind of a meme for the most part, particularly like 90% of self-defense situations. Obviously, some rounds are more powerful than others, and some have better hollow point expansion than others, but marksmanship is king.


>hybrid case technology™

why does this seem like a scam that is intentionally not backwards compatible to drive sales


Meme response that doesn't really mean anything honestly. Different cartridges have wildly different properties like greater or lower recoil, range, armour penetrative ability, wounding/incapacitating potential, weight, muzzle flash, smoke, audibility, velocity, potential for subsonic chamberings, stability in the air, bullet rise and drop, as well as dirtiness/corrosiveness in the barrel, price, cost/difficulty of manufacturing, availability for purchase/aquirement in different areas and circumstances, legality etc.


Because the DoD and contractors are scam chads who are making a shitty needlessly complex jacket just to cost more money and be harder to produce in addition to likely not being as easy to reload for the civvie market.


what do you guys think about 6.5 creedmoor? I heard that ballistics has it as slightly better than .308 but I wonder if it will stay popular or if it will just be a fad like 6.5 grendel


which caliberussy is the best?


For what application and where or in general?


good question


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>more recoil than 5.56 too which is already much worse than 5.45x39


The point of the hybrid case technology is that it allows for significantly higher chamber pressures compared to all-brass casings

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