/AKM/ - Guns, weapons and the art of war.

LMAO even the Poles, who suck the US DoD like it's a milky teat are talking about how bad and expensive the F-35 is.
https://topwar.ru/234617-stoimost-obsluzhivanija-rastet-lavinoobrazno-v-polskoj-presse-raskritikovali-istrebiteli-f-35.html

Considering the increasing Iran-Israel relations (or rather, lack thereof) throughout Spring of 2024, there's a possibility that the Su-35SE (export Su-35S's) of Iran will face off against the F-35i of the Israelie Air-Force. The Israeli's have some advantages, but only stealth is something the F-35 is superior in. Armament, flight-characteristics and so on are on the side of the Sukhoi, and the F-35's stealth is not invisibility, and Iran hasn't been idly standing by ignoring those capabilities. The only REAL difference is that Israeli pilots have more experience, but even then, it's been decades since the IAF has had a proper air to air opponent and striking ground targets is not the same as a dogfight, and BVR is by no means a guaranteed hit.
https://topwar.ru/241104-f-35-vs-su-35-vstrecha-budet-v-nebe-sirii.html

F-35 continues to be a drain on the US economy. Lockheed deliveries are going to be over a quarter to nearly half the number its supposed to be and the poor combat readiness and high maintenance costs mean the F-35 will probably be obsolete by the time it properly enters full combat-capable service. Even the Military Industrial Complex is starting to get flak from their own best friends, the Pentagon.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/f35-sustainment-costs-44pct-controversy
https://www.gao.gov/assets/d24106703.pdf

>>3413
The truth holds it back, the reality pushes it down, the money keeps it afloat and more money pushes it forward.

Fulfilling a request by cross posting this here from the ukraine thread

>>1856668
>Lockheed is reporting that it won't be able to deliver 25-50% of ordered F-35s

And the military's solution? Use the f-35 less, lol

https://www.gao.gov/blog/f-35-will-now-exceed-2-trillion-military-plans-fly-it-less

>In March, the fighter jet marked an important milestone — “full-rate production,” generally the point when development reaches an acceptable level of performance and reliability to start building more of them, faster. F-35s have already been in production at or near full rate for several years. At the same time, the military services that fly the F-35 (the Air Force, Marines, and Navy) plan to use it less.

The recent report offhandedly mentions that it took 20 fucking years to finally reach full production.

https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-24-106909

>After nearly 20 years, the F-35 program moved into full-rate production after conducting its final simulated tests. At this milestone, DOD determined that the F-35 demonstrated an acceptable level of performance and reliability and could be manufactured faster.

And the best part? A 2-trillion dollar program requires another 2 trillion dollar upgrade.

>Hardware and software delays—specifically those associated with Technology Refresh 3 (TR-3)—are another factor driving delays and hindering the program's progress in completing the Block 4 modernization. TR-3 is a $1.8-billion suite of hardware and software upgrades that are critical to the Block 4 modernization effort. TR-3 suppliers have faced setbacks including supply chain issues and software issues. The program and contractor are resolving these issues.

How can Russia and China hope to compete????????????????

>>4977
Imagine how an actual war with these things would look when they can't even be maintained properly without contractors.

This thread will always be the funniest thread until my country announces that we will be paying for F-35s as a service, instead of buying planes, and therefore subsidizing the US airforce and sacrificing more sovereignty. US is going to have to recoup the cost of this shit somehow and forcing vassals to pay is the only way.
https://hushkit.net/2024/05/20/trillion-dollar-trainwreck-how-the-f-35-hollowed-out-the-u-s-air-force-interview-with-author-bill-sweetman/

>>5020
Even the military can't get away from the rampant subscription model economy.

Seriously I can't believe the defense companies managed to hustle the government so bad with this, you would think there might be at least a few patriots in the air force that would point out that a jet that is supposed to do everything is fucking stupid.

Another F-35 fail - a brand new plane from the factory crashed when flying to its base.

https://topwar.ru/243326-v-ssha-razbilsja-istrebitel-f-35-kotoryj-osuschestvljal-perelet-s-zavoda-na-aviabazu.html

F-35 haters are wrong. Well, they always look at the small details like dumb ass defects and forget the biggest flaw of the F-35 is the air frame itself. It can't replace the F-16, F-15E or A-10 in CAS roles like it was supposed to because its too fragile and lacks maneuverability. It could loiter in the air but existing 4th gen aircraft can do this and carry more munitions not to mention cheap as fuck drones. It can't dogfight at all. It has a garbage turn rate and can't compete with the F-16 or F-15 not to mention the Rafale and newer MiGs and Sukhois. Those Su-35s are no fucking joke. Well okay, so its strength is in avionics and BVR and being able to stealthily loiter at range without being detected. Well that would be good if it was a missile truck with lots of weapons but it can't carry more than a handful without compromising its low observable stealth profile. It doesn't even have the speed (only Mach 1.5ish) to control the distance of a BVR engagement. Its also too slow to be a decent interceptor. So its utterly fucking terrible at the one thing it can do: long range engagements. This is a plane that is supposed to be a a do it all CAS, air superiority, multirole, strike, and a VTOL fighter but it can't do any of these missions well. Its a total piece of garbage.

Its a strike plain that can't carry dozens of weapons, its an air superiority fighter that can't dogfight or carry a fuck ton of AA weapons, its too slow to intercept, doesn't carry enough air to air weapons to box on the outside, its a VTOL plane that can't carry a fucking gun, its a light multirole fighter that's more expensive than an air superiority fighter which completely negates the whole fucking point of a light fighter. The only value in the F-35 is duping countries like Australia or Denmark into buying it so these countries chain themselves to the US defense industry and by extension US foreign policy and make them slaves to Uncle Sam. Why do you think the French opted out of buying them?

>>5053
Update on the F-35 crash. Apparently it was an an experimental test model which was being delivered from Lockheed to Edward's Air Base after refueling. The Pilot survived, having ejected and is stable but in 'serious condition' at a nearby hospital

https://archive.ph/jN0wz

>>5057
>first paragraph
Did you actually reword Pierre Sprey's F-35 rant? You (or rather he) aren't wrong, but LMAO.
>The only value in the F-35 is duping countries like Australia or Denmark into buying it so these countries chain themselves to the US defense industry and by extension US foreign policy and make them slaves to Uncle Sam.
They already are, it's just another boondoggle of the MiC, as usual.
>Why do you think the French opted out of buying them?
The frogs always did have an independent streak in them, besides they have Rafale and other industries, it wouldn't do their economy any good to accept the F-35.

>>5057
>F-35 haters are wrong.
F thirdy fibe is good.
Arrow-dye-namigs is wrong.

>>5022
The most patriotic thing an American can do is profit obscenely at the expense of the government.

>>5062
>>5061
>>5053
Not even a week later and not 1 but TWO Japanese F-35s had landing accidents.
https://topwar.ru/243638-v-japonii-sovershili-avarijnuju-posadku-dva-istrebitelja-f-35.html

This isn't one off either. Previously mentioned ITT was debris falling off a Japanese F-35 and another had a nose-landing-gear break in 2022.
https://www.outono.net/elentir/2022/12/02/the-recording-of-the-crash-of-a-marine-f-35-fighter-at-an-air-base-in-japan/

>>5083
>>5083
>Not even a week later and not 1 but TWO Japanese F-35s had landing accidents.
honestly this is the funniest thread on the site

>>3151
>>3943
>Vulnerable to lightning; it's practically a lightning rod https://archive.is/QSIii
While not unique to the F-35, it's vulnerable to weather, a lot more than standard fighters like the 4th Generation and the Russian and Chinese 5th Gen designs.
I bring this up because the Pentagon is going to lose millions on F-35s that got caught in bad weather in Texas while they waited to be upgraded by Lockheed, and Lockheed is only warrantying 100K of the damages.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-07-02/weather-damaged-f-35s-parked-in-texas-may-cost-pentagon-millions

>>3933
Also on a tangent to this. The MiG-25 featured similar protection of its fuel, not because of lightning vulnerability (in fact the steel-hulled construction makes it pretty resistant to lightning) but because of the extreme heat caused by air-friction at its top speed, which caused expansion and compression of the aircraft, which could cause leaks; due to the fact that rather than conventional fuel-tanks, it carried fuel in adapted free-volume space within the aircraft, any leaks would directly contact the engines causing a flame up and detonation. Thus they needed to guarantee the plane wouldn't detonate if it ever got hit* or leaked, so they used high-tensile welding that resisted the contraction/expansion from the cooling and heating, used special T-6 kerosene with an extremely high ignition temperature, and finally, had a system that would fill the spaces with nitrogen as fuel was consumed, which would smother a fire before it began and act as a temperature reducer similar to the F-35, except it was specifically for the flight capabilities of the MiG-25, not protection from nature's elements.

*the sheer speed of the MiG-25 meant that it managed to outfly incoming missiles well into the 90s (such as MIM HAWKs and AIM-120Cs).

>>5207
they didn't even put the fucking things in a hangar??? based lockheed committing financial war against the US military

>>3717
>>3719
>>3718
I wish this was true lol. It would be pure comedy and a wonderful chance for Cuba/Russia/China/etc. to study it.

>>5208
>they didn't even put the fucking things in a hangar?
Decades of pro-US military propaganda has made people think the Pentagon is more competent than it actually is. There are over 4000s aircraft stored in Arizona… open air, and most of them beyond repair, so they're just scrap metal. With tanks it at least makes sense even if its not ideal, with aircraft it's just asking for trouble. It's actually another reason the F-22 production line was stopped, every flight they had to recoat the stealth paint because it was too sensitive to the environment and degraded.

Fighterbomber made a telegram post about 250 Gigabytes of files he was sent, on the F-15 and F-35 as well as the Switchblade drone, JDAM and other weapons used by aircraft; flight manuals, basic instructions, weapons as well as information on weapons. Some of it he posted online. Pic rel.

https://www.newsweek.com/pentagon-f35-fighter-jet-intelligence-leak-russian-telegram-channel-1923865

>>5207
>except it was specifically for the flight capabilities of the MiG-25
On this topic, the F-35 is apparently limited to short bursts of supersonic speed because its stealth coating and tail-fins lose integrity at supersonic speeds.
What this means is that it cannot intercept enemy aircraft or cruise missiles, nor fly long distances at supersonic speeds without essentially losing its stealth. While it can do so to get a mission done, essentially the result would be the plane requiring to be sent back for repairs after conducting a mission. A modern fighter jet is not supposed to have "supersonic speed as an emergency tactic".
>When you go into afterburner, you are heating up the outside of your aircraft.”
Which is why you have non-after-burning supercruise above the sound-barrier as a requirement for 5th generation aircraft. This is idiocy.
>limits were imposed after two separate tests in 2011 where the "B" model incurred “bubbling [and] blistering” of its stealth coating and the "C" model suffered “thermal damage” to the tailboom and horizontal tail
The flight tests were at 1.3-1.6 Mach, and according the test pilot involved several hours of flights at supersonic speeds with refueling in between. He stated that this isn't a real scenario, but the problem is that while an aircraft may not be flying for hours and hours at supersonic speeds, it most certainly will accumulate such hours over the course of even a couple flights, including training, let alone actual missions. So that means that most F-35s are going to show repeat damage to the tailbooms and stealth coating within a year of flights, OR pilots are going to be restricted training wise, and lack the capability to train for supersonic combat properly.
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2020/04/24/the-pentagon-will-have-to-live-with-limits-on-f-35s-supersonic-flights/
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/supersonic-speeds-could-cause-big-problems-for-the-f-35s-stealth-coating/

>>5231
Sick. I guess that means DCS will get even better since they had to program a lot of stuff off of speculation.

New F-35 funnies
>In Japan, a US F-35 Lightning II pilot jumped from his plane
No other news properly reported on this, but video exists. It's theorized that the cause of this emergency fleeing of the cockpit was outgassing, possibly due to fuel leakage, which is a noted problem in the F-35.
https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2024/07/12/in-japan-a-us-f-35-lightning-ii-pilot-jumped-from-his-plane/

In a less direct aspect, the Pentagon has discovered that over 6 BILLION dollars meant for the F-22 and F-35 programs was "accidentally" sent to Ukraine, meaning that as of May 2024 the amount of money sent to Ukraine is not 107 Billion dollars but 113 Billion (or if you take into account the expenses of the Aid Bills, rather than 175 Billion, it's 181 Billion).
https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-us-aid-going-ukraine
https://www.stateoig.gov/uploads/report/report_pdf_file/fy2023_jsop_ukraine_response.pdf
https://topwar.ru/246846-pentagon-iz-za-buhgalterskoj-oshibki-ukraine-bylo-peredano-oruzhija-na-62-mlrd-dollarov-bolshe.html

>>5261
>Hurr I used reddit speak, I'm so SMART!
<smokes Hamas leader in Teheran cuckshed
<cuckshed
Ah it's the 4/k/oper, returned to goatse his butthurt all over the place again.

You do realize that even the Israeli's did not comment on how they did so, right? They aren't afraid and are even proud to flex their airstrikes and what platforms they use, so your claim is bullshit. Furthermore the Iranian's stated that it was some sort of aerial strike, meaning that they DID detect it, you dumb faggot.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/haniyeh-hit-shows-depth-of-israels-reach-in-iran-something-we-have-all-long-known/

And Iran has tracked F-35s before and did so when Israel struck Syria earlier this year:
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/at-least-5-killed-in-israel-attack-on-iran-consulate-in-syria-5354140

>>5233
>>5207
>*the sheer speed of the MiG-25 meant that it managed to outfly incoming missiles well into the 90s (such as MIM HAWKs and AIM-120Cs).
>the F-35 is apparently limited to short bursts of supersonic speed
>A modern fighter jet is not supposed to have "supersonic speed as an emergency tactic".
So recently some audio was leaked from the Russian sides involving Su-34 pilots and ground control. In it, a Su-34 flying a strike mission detected Patriot missile launches and was told to take evasive action (video rel - as a Russian speaker I can confirm accurate translation). It dropped its payload, turned and pushed to maximum speed, conducting turning maneuvers, proceeding to evade the launch of at least 3 or 4 Patriot SAMs. The maximum speed of an Su-34 that is publicly acknowledged is over Mach 1.8 with afterburners, standard for most 4th Generation Jet Fighters/Fighter-Bombers. The F-35 with afterburners has a reported speed of Mach 1.6 at most, and is supposed to operate at 1.3M or so (if at all). What this demonstrates is that speed is still an important factor in aerial and counter-aerial warfare, including against missiles, yet again proving my point about supersonic speed limitations on the F-35 being a dangerous flaw. Stealth is not an invisibility cloak, and any missile strike is going to immediately require evasive actions to prevent counter-attack, which means getting the fuck out of Dodge. Su-34s use that exact tactic, coming in low, hot and fast, or high and fast, dropping missiles and guided bombs and then turning and, as demonstrated, leaving at high speed without loitering, and with high-speed maneuvers to boot. The F-35 is limited in that regard, and so more vulnerable, stealth or not.

>>5266
>>this kills the f-35 pilot
<lightning-strike.png
<66
KEKED and CHECKED

>>4977
>4977
Checked
but also >>>/leftypol/1856668 is how to crosspost

So the F-35 is basically a stealthy unreliable Yak-41?

>>5431
>can be ground launched from a technical
>can be air launched
>breakaway low speed motor for loitering/launch
>high speed motor for pursuit
>multi guidance infrared/optical/ai/maninloop
>probable radar complex integration
anons say they're gamers but haven't realized the implications for the (Stealth) Air Power Era of loitering SAM missiles or their variations
>next step: breakaway wings for longer loitering

>>5432
>Israel aborted its mission when it encountered an unknown defence system
<Theodore Postol is Professor of Science, Technology and National Security Policy in the Program in Science, Technology, and Society at MIT. He did his undergraduate work in physics and his graduate work in nuclear engineering at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. After receiving his Ph.D., Dr. Postol joined the staff of Argonne National Laboratory, where he studied the microscopic dynamics and structure of liquids and disordered solids using neutron, x-ray and light scattering, along with computer molecular dynamics techniques. Subsequently he went to the Congressional Office of Technology Assessment to study methods of basing the MX Missile, and later worked as a scientific adviser to the Chief of Naval Operations. After leaving the Pentagon, Dr. Postol helped to build a program at Stanford University to train mid-career scientists to study developments in weapons technology of relevance to defense and arms control policy. In 1990 Dr. Postol was awarded the Leo Szilard Prize from the American Physical Society. In 1995 he received the Hilliard Roderick Prize from the American Association for the Advancement of Science and in 2001 he received the Norbert Wiener Award from Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility for uncovering numerous and important false claims about missile defenses.
oh naw nah noe F35 btfo

Not directly f-35 related but
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/math-might-be-b-21-raiders-biggest-enemy-209874

More data on the F35 invulnerability
https://warriormaven.com/global-security/was-an-israeli-f-35-shot-down-by-iranian-radar

bump for the best thread on /AKM/
death to sliders

>>5426
Such a dead thread, but it's worse.

The Americans fucked up concurrency, when the Russians and Chinese do it, they finish the base model before trying variations, whereas the Americans tried to develop 3 different variations at the same time where none of then do their jobs correctly.

The F-35B and C (STOVL, carrier) variants can't go above Mach 1.3 without damaging their tailfins. The F-35A isn't maneuverable enough.

It's pretty much a totally cocked up project, except that the F-35s are still stealthy and capable strike aircraft.

They're just completely inferior as air-to-air platforms against the same generation of aircraft, provided the opponent doesn't cut tlk many corners on stealth and sensors.

why are all the old images gone?

>>5549
Server fuck up a couple months ago

f-35 crashed at American arctic base

>>5650
Why everytime it crashes it looks like a fucking toy plane lmao reminds me when it was bouncing around

holy seetherald of a thread

space shuttle was probs the most expensive instrument of war minus the satellite grids/cost to launch them

dont forget why the shuttle was made, the not so cold war…

>>5771 oh no casualties in war?!?!?!

bloody murica balance yourself out a bit eh

i love the blowing shit up but wtf is trump doing i used to like that guy, wtf is americuh doin lol
only here coz i want 420chan leftypol is gay but not 4chan

>F-35 isn't bloated enough
<now we're making an F-55
KEK

>>5687
/k/ope more