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/AKM/ - Guns, weapons and the art of war.

"War can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun." - Chairman Mao
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File: 1685048727614-0.png (306.59 KB, 602x371, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1685048727614-2.pdf (198.45 KB, 206x255, F-35 mishap rate.pdf)

 [Last 50 Posts]

Thread for hating on the F-35 "Lightning II" stealth turkey a.k.a the most expensive military project in history to date.

The USAF declared it ready for service in 2016
As of that date the following problems I can list just off the top of my head
- Vulnerable to lightning; it's practically a lightning rod https://archive.is/QSIii
- 0 redundancies in the cyber or mechanical aggregates; any malfunction
- RADAR glitches means it literally ahs to be turned off and on again https://archive.ph/EEd9y
- Ejection seat is banned for anyone 136 pounds or below and anyone not above 150 pounds has significant injury risk, it literally can break your neck.
- F-35 helmets glow too brightly for air-to-air refueling https://archive.is/pKE0Y
- F-35 helmets are so heavy at nearly 5 kilograms so that maneuvers cause them to bang their heads on the inside of the cockpit https://archive.ph/WsRxA https://archive.ph/dE1gP
(keep in mind these helmets are 400,000 dollars each).
- The oxygen system is unreliable (something that the F-22 shares) https://archive.ph/kGGKq

The Plane was supposed to be ready by 2010-12 having been projected in the early 2000s
the list of problems in its past and that are remaining in various levels of urgency number over 800.
Such as but not limited to
- Current aircraft software is inadequate for even basic pilot training.
- Ejection seat may fail, causing pilot fatality. Lacking safety measures for automatic pilot release.
- Several pilot-vehicle interface issues, including lack of feedback on touchscreen controls.
- The radar performs poorly, or not at all.
- Engine replacement takes an average of 52 hours, instead of the two hours specified.
- Maintenance tools do not work.
- It has inferior maneuverability and aerodynamics to the planes it is meant to succeed the F-16 and the F-18
https://archive.is/RmLTT
https://archive.ph/20130410175353/http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130306/DEFREG02/303060011/F-35-Report-Warns-Visibility-Risks-Other-Dangers
https://archive.ph/h0NX6
https://archive.is/Vzv4u

 

>>3151
I hate the f35 despite it's defects. the real problem is that it is good enough to protect american interests. I'm not even talking about stealth (the math and physics involved are hard and/or classified), the now 14 years old engine is still one generation above the ws-15, if we were to trust the official figures

 

File: 1685152078987.png (281.93 KB, 900x892, ClipboardImage.png)

>>3152
>it is good enough to protect american interests
So are any other fighter aircraft currently fielded by NATO that aren't big fuck ups like the F-35. The stealth is trash and useless because they got tracked by S-400s back in fucking Syria years ago. Stealth is meaningless against any opponent of sufficient technological parity. Using a stealth vehicle as a bomb truck against non-parity opponents is a massive waste of resources.
>still one generation above the ws-15, if we were to trust the official figures
LMAO I don't believe that shit for a hot minute. The P&W F135 is unable to let the F-35 supercruise, the WS-15 provides the J-20 this capability. Meantime the STOVL and VTOL shit that it's "so advanced in" is literally based off of patents bought from Yakovlev in the 90s involving the Yak-141*. I'm not even talking about the constant reoccurring problems in the engines over the past 14 years that ought to have been solved years ago.
The F135 is literally just the F-22's engine but with a new fan blade and supposedly upgraded turbine. The fact is the plane is an okayish fighter plane in the vein of the F-16 but with better BVR capability, but that's it. It lacks the redundancy of 2 engines a sea-borne F-18 is known for, it lacks the load-capacity to match the F-18 as well, it can't even carry close to the F-18s load without using external hardpoints that immediately compromise all stealth.
It has absolutely NO businessas a ground-attack or fighter-bomber aircraft as it lacks loiter capability necessary for this. So it can't replace or even supplement the aging A-10. It's literally being shoved into more roles than it can handle. At least a multirole fighter like the Su-57 has the size necessary to carry out various missions. The Russian Navy is still not going to use it in some retarded VTOL variant that eats fuel like nothing else. The F-22 has multirole capability too, but again the US Air Force in the time of the F-22's introduction wasn't retarded enough to use it on carriers or some shit.

*https://archive.is/f8HDJ

 

File: 1686699415910.png (113.79 KB, 602x258, ClipboardImage.png)

https://archive.is/M9l8n
Bug List for the F-35

The F-35 is basically a product of its time - overpriced, over "technological" Wunderwaffen that ignores practical military use in a "too big to fail" method.
https://www.pogo.org/analysis/2021/03/the-f-35-and-other-legacies-of-failure

 

surely the numbers we have access to are pretty meaningless considering the faster development iteration cycle for modern missiles. the iranians are claiming to have some kind of programmable loitering air to air missile. more advanced countries could fire swarms of these.

 


 

>>3715
came here to post this
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/f-35-cant-be-found-after-pilot-ejected
apparently the F-35 is so advanced and stealthy that they don't crash when the pilot ejects, it just goes "missing"
hilarious burger cope

 

Came here to find some keks about the tweets saying the plane ended up in Havana, staying for the actual real life F-35 defenders.

 

>>3717
>F-35 in Havana
That would be based if true. Looking forward to the Cuban military using it.

>>3716
I mean an autopilot could theoretically have the plane fly until the fuel ran out… but given how janky the F-35 is I wouldn't bet on it.

 

File: 1695083553507.png (454.94 KB, 925x683, ClipboardImage.png)

>>3717
>>3718
b-bros…

 

>>3716
why do they not have a GPS tracker on it lmao. it's less advanced than my smartphone

 

>>3720
It'll be yet another victim of the Bermuda Triangle's mysticism.

 

File: 1695086825296.jpg (330.99 KB, 517x768, 1431918215064.jpg)

How incompetent do you have to be to make a stealth plane that only you can't find?

 

>>3722
>How incompetent do you have to be to make a stealth plane that only you can't find?
Reminder that both Russian S-400 RADARs and Iranian SAM installations have tracked F-35s and F-22s over Syria.

 

>>3723
Russia can't shoot down dumb ass drones routinely bombing their capital, I doubt they can shoot down fifth gen fighters.

 

File: 1695139503326.png (1.41 MB, 900x600, ClipboardImage.png)

>>3724
>Yet again 4/k/ demonstrates their retarded understanding of air-defense systems.
Ukraine sends large numbers of them at various altitudes, in densely populated areas near air-fields RADAR units need to validly identify a target, lest they shoot down their own planes.
2) A drone's RADAR signature is extremely tiny, comparable to a stealth aircraft because of their size and the use of primarily composite materials in their construction
3) Due to being low-flying they can hide by using terrain
4) Russia regularly shoots down drones by the dozens, the numbers that get through are pitiful.

https://southfront.press/russian-army-thwarts-drone-attacks-on-crimea-moscow-voronezh/

 

File: 1695143736804.png (1.33 MB, 683x1024, Dude Wheres My F-35.png)

Unfortunately it seems the news about Havana getting the F-35 was untrue. Still it did crash, so that's one less fighter for the USAF. Some /k/opers are trying to claim it was caused by "cyber attack". Probably untrue, but if it was that only makes it more pathetic - your plane can get hacked, that's a real first in the history of aviation so far as we know.
https://www.zerohedge.com/military/how-do-you-lose-f-35-us-military-cant-find-stealth-jet-after-mishap
https://www.zerohedge.com/military/new-footage-reveals-wreckage-f-35-jet-amidst-speculation-potential-cyberattack

Southfront did an article on just how lame the F-35 is: https://southfront.press/yet-another-embarrassing-episode-for-the-best-fighter-jet-ever-made/

 

File: 1695149445700.png (103.54 KB, 837x983, americrap no radar.png)

>>3724
>muh 5th gen wunderwaffe
4chinlets/k/ope is that way

 

File: 1695149724339.png (22.83 KB, 474x316, ClipboardImage.png)

Jets are gay. Where have they played a role in this Ukraine war? Pure LARP shit and a waste of money. All aircraft are gay LARP shit really. AA is too OP and aircraft are too expensive.

 

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>>3728
I feel like either you don't have to worry about shot down and you use gunships for their cost effectiveness or you just don't use air. Bombers and fighters are gay. Probably helis too.

 

>>3728
they do their job well enough

 

>>3730
When was that tho? I'm not following it religiously, but it seems all I've seen in awhile are lancet, drones, and occasional tank battle videos.

 

>>3731
august, vidrel is too

 

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>>3728
Nice bait LOL, typical /k/

 

>>3715
>>3726
BTW the incident of the lost plane also resulted in another pilot injury
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/f35-accident-hospitalises-pilot

 

>>3725
>>3726
>southfront
lol

 

>>3742
>/k/oper didn’t even read the article
it literally just quotes and links to western MSM reports about the F-35 accidents, seethe

 

>>3743
So? If you put all Russian fighters together they number less than F35s and have more accidents.

 

>>3744
>If you put all Russian fighters together they number less than F35s
delusional /k/ope
>and have more accidents.
post 'em

 

>>3745
It's not cope though, there is a thousand of F35s out there

 

File: 1695213250458.jpg (97.97 KB, 611x1024, iraq burger.jpg)

>>3746
>comparing a russian jet crash during a war to burgers crashing their shit nonstop during peacetime
yep, it's /k/ope

 

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File: 1695213380968-1.png (184.73 KB, 600x791, ClipboardImage.png)

https://farside.link/nitter/RealDanODowd/status/1704281860552155569
even the software is wunderwaffen now
the software is never at fault, it never fails and cannot be hacked!

 

>>3747
America has been non stop at war for twenty years, you russians are just jealous of the burger urge to loose forever wars against weaker opponents but you will learn when Ukraine throws you out in a decade

 

>>3724
Russia doesn't shoot down burger planes because it would mean WW3 dumbass.

 

>>3751
They don't because they are imperialistic cucks*

 

>>3752
>Soviet Union shoots down plane violating its airspace and spying openly
<Why isn't Russia shooting down aircraft in other countries airspace or border violations and possibly provoking nuclear war, C-cucks!?!?!
Nitwit

 

>>3750
>America has been non stop at war for twenty years
LMAO imagine being proud of that. Also F-35s have barely if at all been in combat and comparing the crash and malfunction rate of the F-35s to all Russian aircraft is fucking delusional.
>you will learn when Ukraine throws you out in a decade
LOL, LMAO even.

>>3744
>If you put all Russian fighters together they number less than F35s
And they're all more functional and combat capable. The F-35 being stamped out en masse because it's a tiny fighter with pathetic payload, pathetic speed, pathetic durability, poor stealth (relative to other stealths in the USAF and outside it) and are overpriced to boot. The USAF would have done better making a deep-upgrade, stealth version of the F-16 instead, kind of like the Silent Eagle is for the F-15.

 

>>3744
>F-35 pilot sent to the task of nuking st petersburg
>the jet crashes like it usually does and self nukes burgers
dog bless freedom

 

>>3754
>all Russian aircraft is fucking delusional.
Those are mostly very old, a lot of flight hours, even more so since Russia is in its forever war and it will get worse with time, so that's why they crash a lot compared to the F35 even though there are more F35s.

 

Here's your more capable aircraft bro

 

File: 1695332976931.png (327.15 KB, 700x394, ClipboardImage.png)

https://archive.is/2023.09.21-183552/https://www.ft.com/content/a3741488-3350-44fd-940f-f0d494d54587
<Financial Times - F-35 fighter jets can only fly 55% of time, US watchdog says | Sept 21
>The Pentagon’s costly fleet of F-35 fighter jets can only fly a little over half the time, as maintenance issues keep the aircraft on the ground despite the growing reliance on the planes by the US and its allies.
>The fleet’s mission-capable rate — or the percentage of time a plane can perform one of its assigned missions — was 55 per cent as of March 2023, far below the Pentagon’s goal of 85 per cent to 90 per cent, the Government Accountability Office said on Thursday.
>The report from the GAO, an independent congressional watchdog, was published just days after a Marine Corps F-35 crashed in South Carolina, prompting a search for the plane and raising questions over how it could have gone missing for a day before its debris was located.
>The F-35’s share of the US’s overall tactical aviation fleet is expected to keep growing, providing a boon to its manufacturer Lockheed Martin. Each of the fighter jets costs the government about $160mn.
>There are 450 F-35s in the US military’s arsenal — variants are used by the air force, navy and Marine Corps — and the Pentagon plans to buy roughly 2,000 more by the mid-2040s, costing $1.7tn over the programme’s life cycle, including $1.3tn for maintaining the aircraft.
>It is the world’s costliest defence procurement project, replacing the main fighter for those three branches of the US military, meaning they are “flying an increasing amount of operational missions”, according to the GAO report.
>US allies in Nato and Asia, as well as Israel, have also added F-35s to their air forces. The UK defence ministry is one of the largest customers for the aircraft.
>“Maintenance challenges negatively affect F-35 aircraft readiness”, with the poor level “due in part to challenges with depot and organisational maintenance”, the GAO said.
>The Pentagon is years behind in establishing enough maintenance depot capacity, resulting in repair delays and a 10 per cent reduction in the jet’s mission-capable rate.
>Part of the challenges stem from a heavy reliance on contractors for maintenance that limits the Pentagon’s ability to control depot maintenance decisions. Delays also arise from spare parts shortages, inadequate maintenance training, insufficient support equipment, and a lack of technical data needed to make repairs.
>The Pentagon will take over managing the F-35’s sustainment by October 2027, making this a critical time for it to reassess the jets’ underlying sustainment strategy, the GAO said.
>“We stand ready to partner with the government as plans are created for the future of F-35 sustainment ensuring mission readiness and enabling deterrence,” Lockheed said in a statement.

 

>>3758
>a couple crashes of a strike fighter actively being used
<compared to literally the same number of crashes of a brand-new aircraft not even flying combat missions
LMAO, retard.

>>3756
>Those are mostly very old
An aircraft should remain combat capable for a few years at the very least, and a decade at least is expected of military fighters and related planes. Compare this to the F-35, which isn't flying nearly as many hours, is not flying combat missions and is literally the most expensive project I've seen in the past 3 decades.
>they crash a lot compared to the F35
Except the F-35 crash figures within the same timeframe are comparable in number, in spite of being NEW
>Russia is in its forever war
/k/ope harder /uhg/-fag.

 

>F35 crash in South Carolina.
>Official reason Bad wether
>pilot ejects due to malfunction
>the malfunction could've been the ejection itself
>while the plane was in autopilot, 300m off the ground
>"loses it in bad weather"
>the jet proceeds to fly into the unknown for 60 miles
>then just crashes
KEK

 

>>3760
>flying combat missions
It was a training mission. But yeah since the military industrial complex of Russia is so weak compared to the west they can't churn out enough planes so they push their air frames far above their flight hours limit which leads to accidents. Add the restriction to get western technology needed for their planes and overworked maintenance workers and you have this high rate of accidents.

 

>>3764
>Helicopters included in the list
LMAO
>the military industrial complex of Russia is so weak compared to the west
Russia is poor on production compared to the USSR, but to say this is fucking laughable. The West is literally running out of shells, tanks, rockets and missiles sending them to Ukraine by proxy. This comparison is so lopsided that it's just proving my point, the collective West, in spite of being collectively larger economically than Russia, is failing. Russia isn't producing as many because it neither needs that many, considering its reserves and its doctrine not being one of imperial first-world hegemony.
>they push their air frames far above their flight hours limit
Rubbish
>the restriction to get western technology needed for their plane
That only applies to passenger aicraft primarily, the majority of soviet aircraft have never used Western technology, and what technology was being used has been replaced in production.
And again the rate of accidents for the F-35 ALONE is higher than Russia's for all airplanes, and if you include all makes of current fights (Eurofighter, F-18, F-15, F-16, etc.) the disparity is even higher. Fucking hilarious /k/ope

 

>>3764
>the military industrial complex of Russia is so weak compared to the west
is that why they are outproducing america + ukraine + NATO + the collective west combined?
are you one of the "NATO is choosing to lose" people?
https://archive.is/20230526112050/https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-03-01/ukraine-outgunned-10-to-1-in-massive-artillery-battle-with-russia.html
<According to data from the European Commission to which EL PAÍS has had access, Russia fires between 40,000 and 50,000 artillery shells per day, compared to 5,000-6,000 Ukrainian forces expend.
https://archive.is/2023.09.13-202734/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/us/politics/russia-sanctions-missile-production.html
<Before the war, one senior Western defense official said, Russia could make 100 tanks a year; now they are producing 200.
<Western officials also believe Russia is on track to manufacture two million artillery shells a year — double the amount Western intelligence services had initially estimated Russia could manufacture before the war.
<As a result of the push, Russia is now producing more ammunition than the United States and Europe. Overall, Kusti Salm, a senior Estonian defense ministry official, estimated that Russia’s current ammunition production is seven times greater than that of the West.
<Russia’s production costs are also far lower than the West’s, in part because Moscow is sacrificing safety and quality in its effort to build weapons more cheaply, Mr. Salm said. For instance, it costs a Western country $5,000 to $6,000 to make a 155-millimeter artillery round, whereas it costs Russia about $600 to produce a comparable 152-millimeter artillery shell, he said.

 

>>3766
Russia produced 10 5th gen fighters, US more than 1000, but tell me again how Russia is outproducing the west lol

 

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>>3768
>why isn’t russia building epic wunderwaffen during a war instead of sticking to the more reliable and available models they already have??
putting the pathetic nazi faggots who lost WW2 in charge of NATO did irreparable damage to your militaries, jesus christ

 

>>3771
But the Russian planes crash way more than the F35, they are not more reliable. Furthermore Russia couldn't accomplish enough SEAD missions and get aerial superiority in Ukraine because their antiquated aircraft were very vulnerable and their subpar industrial capability doesn't let them mass produce su 57.

 

>>3768
>10
That's not even the correct number retard
>LOL why isn't Russia wasting billions investing in a gimmick that isn't reliably useful except for specific mission profiles that it already has methods of executing
LMAO

>>3772
>Russian planes crash way more than the F35
False. You compare all aircraft including helicopters in a list off of wikipedia. And you're goal-post shifting too. On a 1:1 basis F-35s have more incidents, crashes and other problems, in the past few years, let alone the entire 10 year history of the F-35 so far.
>Russia couldn't accomplish enough SEAD missions and get aerial superiority in Ukraine
Except that's untrue, that's not even what air-superiority means; air superiority is establishing tactical dominance over the opposing air force, which Russian has done. SAMs are a different matter entirely and Russia has combated those as well, freely flying its fighters, fighter-bombers and strike aircraft on the frontlines, while Ukrainian aircraft all fire their payloads at stand-off ranges because of Russian SAMs: Ukrainian aircraft can barely fly missions because they get shot down every time. Meantimes Ukrainian air defense is retracted far back like a penis in an ice-bath, because anything closer to the frontline gets taken out by artillery, air-strikes, drones, etc. Even behind the front they're not safe from cruise-missile and drone strikes that have destroyed many units. In the meantimes Ukraine has failed to destroy Russian SAM units, with a handful of such targets taken out, mostly at the start of the conflict and consisting of short-range AAA-M systems.
>their antiquated aircraft were very vulnerable
<The entire arsenal of Ukrainians SAM units have failed to put down more than a handful of Russian aircraft that have been flying hundreds of missions in the past year, making the loss rate a fraction of 1%.
>their subpar industrial capability doesn't let them mass produce su 57
<Russia
<subpart industrial capability
LMFAO, you still don't seem to understand how militaries work, drinking that Burger military-industrial complex coolaid. Most militaries, including the US up until the 21st century, did not produce large numbers of cutting edge aircraft until they were needed. F-15s only started getting mass produced later than their initial introduction, and the F-22 never even hit 200 units because it was far too costly and unnecessary when regular F-15s, F-18s and F-16s flew the same missions far cheaply. Russia is using up old stock first rather than wasting its new stock and choking production of new units rather than modernizing their existing ones and producing more older ones that are still very capable vehicles and are proving so.

 

>>3773
>loss rate a fraction of 1%
Russia lost 1 su 57 which put their loss rate of fifth gen fighters at almost 10%

 

>>3774
>lost 1
>10%
The Russian Airforce was delivered 21 Su-57s, so that's a 5% loss rate going purely by statistics. However again your goal-posts shifted, comparing the F-35 to all Russian aircraft, to suddenly only one, very recent aircraft, how manupulative.

 

>>3774
the absolute state of burger math

 

File: 1695575289400.jpg (50.37 KB, 500x277, LOL (2).jpg)

>>3777
>777
>the absolute state of burger math
Checkem LOL

 

>>3776
>>3777
I simply didn't count the prototypes. They probably failed in a manner of other knowing the reliability of Russian material and the corruption so I was nice in a way.

 

File: 1695750618331.jpeg (16.09 KB, 750x738, IMG_0938.jpeg)

>>3783
>they probably failed

 

Russian planes are relia.. ACK

 

>>3789
>america's $100.000.000 per unit (not including tip and mandatory israel donation) wunderwaffe is as reliable as a soviet plane from the 70s
impressive

 

>>3789
>A transport plane has crash on a shitty third-world landing strip
A landing strip most NATO aircraft wouldn't be able to even land on, because they need pristine landing strips. Meantime a single accident from situational conditions and not plane malfunction is meaninless.

 

>>3792
>>3793
The Russians are flying their planes past their expiration date because they don't have the industry to produce enough which make them crash
https://www.rand.org/blog/2023/08/the-uncounted-losses-to-russias-air-force.html

 

>>3795
>rand.org
>blog
LMAO that site is fucking garbage, but more importantly the article is literally just an opinion post with no actual sources. It can't even confirm the actual losses of Russian planes in the war because it's using secondary and tertiary sourcing for what little numbers it has. The nonsense about "plane hours" is just pure ignorance, especially considering that it ignores which aircraft are being primarily used in the war and what kind, or rather it ignores the differences of them. Su-35s and Su-34s as well as Su-25s are the main fighting force actively used, the former 2 are new airframes and got additional modernizations and refurbishment in recent times. Many of them are brand new. The Su-25 is literally an armored fuselage with 2 easily replaceable, nearly disposable engines and planing surfaces. All of them are built in with redundancies, and most crashes were the result of pilot error or situational problems.

Meantime the F-35 is a brand-new airframe, is crashing or malfunctioning regularly, and due to inherent design flaws, not pilot mistakes or environmental reasons. The things literally fall apart in mid-air (pic rel).

And yeah, comparing your brand-new aircraft that has been having "teething" problems for the past decade, to older aircraft is fucking pathetic and laughable.

 

File: 1696051509992.png (485.5 KB, 1024x1302, ClipboardImage.png)

>>3768
good news anon, another batch of Su-57 planes was delivered 2 days ago!
https://archive.is/PTwEr

 

>>3799
Useless wunderwaffen

 

>>3800
>Useless wunderwaffen
Kek, seethe.

 

>>3799
Hooray! This will greatly benefit the working class!

 

>>3811
damn anon, this is a really deep and insightful analysis

 

So part of the reason the F-35 is selling so well is that in the European market it is the cheapest for its size category, compared to the Eurofighter Typhoon, Rafale and others comparable Western fighters that are only 4th Generation. This is similar to the F-16 in that regard - higher development costs compared to the F-15 and initially high purchase costs but the price later went down (probably because high-production numbers -> reduced need for prices, basic marketing).
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/cost-effective-f35a-cheapest-modern-western-fighter
Thus the current price is 80 million per F-35.
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/f35-europe-clients-production-dominance-market
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/losing-sorely-president-macron-claims-belgium-s-choice-of-american-f-35-over-rafale-undermines-european-security-as-french-media-slams-brussels-lack-of-continental-solidarity

However it's also unreliable with way too many problems and requires much higher maintenance, leading to higher costs overall. The US army only officially accepted it into production a decade after its intended delivery date. Pentagon Testing Office in 2021 stated that the reliability of the United States' "Most Critical Next Generation Platform" is at "Only 50%" and that efforts to fix F-35 remain "Stagnant". NATO allies also have been complaining about defects in the plane. The Pentagon itself was barely getting any F-35s in 2023, a year after its mass production was approved.
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/f35-rafale-worsening-supply-chain-struggle
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/f35-mass-production-schedule-test (finally approved)
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/defence-department-undersecretary-ellen-lord-u-s-military-can-t-afford-sustainment-costs-for-its-f-35-joint-strike-fighter-program
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/f35-quality-defects-marines-dissatisfied
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/f-35-is-a-piece-of-xxxx-why-trump-s-last-defence-secretary-hated-the-stealth-fighter-and-wasnt-the-only-one

As a reminder, the F-35 remains the only fifth generation fighter in production in the Western world, (thus compatible with a NATO standard military) which makes it the only fighter capable of challenging China’s own fast growing fifth generation fighter fleet (on paper). More importantly the F-35 is a relatively light single engine fighter, and this lacks the endurance, firepower, RADAR size or flight performance of the Chinese J-20 heavy stealth-fighter, which itself will be supplemented by lighter stealth fighters being developed (based off of the F-35 design that the Chinese copied lmao). This is on top of the fact that "although officially operational, the F-35 is restricted to an initial operating capability meaning it is currently not capable of medium or high intensity combat and will require many years to be made fully combat ready." and has limited air-to-air capability.

Russian interceptions of F-35s also speaks to them being visible on Russian RADARs, making their key feature - stealth - useless.

 

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>>3151
>Vulnerable to lightning
How is that different from any other military plane?

 

>>3729
>Bombers and fighters are gay. Probably helis too You don't actually know anything about warfare, do you?

 

>>3918
>To safely fly in conditions where lightning is present, the F-35 relies on its Onboard Inert Gas Generation System, or OBIGGS, which pumps nitrogen-enriched air into the fuel tanks to inert them. Without this system, a jet could explode if struck by lightning.
Most planes will be damaged by lightning, but they're not goin to explode unless hit directly into a critical area.

 

>>3933
>Most planes will be damaged by lightning, but they're not goin to explode unless hit directly into a critical area.
Source?

 

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>>3938
>Source?
Real life lol. It happens all the time, but it's never considered a significant risk where the jet would easily blow the fuck up
>Three E/A-18G Growler jets were struck by lightning on June 6 while they conducted operations over southern Japan, officials confirmed this week. “No personnel were injured during this incident and all aircraft landed safely at Kadena Air Force Base,” Naval Air Forces spokesperson Ensign Bryan Blair said in an email.
Example: https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2023/07/06/lightning-struck-three-growler-jets-over-japan-on-the-same-day/

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/12/lightning-strike-on-fighter-jet-caught-on-cockpit-video

The F-18 and the Growler are planes the F-35B and C was supposed to replace BTW.

 

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Israeli F-35 managed to shoot-down a Quds 3 or 4 cruise missile launched from Yemen. The subsonic missiles are the equivalent of the aging american Tomahawk cruise missile or older Kh-55, so slow and not very much of a target for any modern aircraft if detected in time.

https://defence-blog.com/israel-shoots-down-houthi-drones-using-f-35i-adir-fighter-jets/

http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets/Specials/Iranian-Yemeni_cruise-missiles/index.htm

 

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>stealth plane

 

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>>3970
>three F-117s shot down
wut

 

>>3989
3 destroyed. 1 was shot down and its undeniable, but 2 others, operating from a German-NATO airbase were hit by SAMs and barely managed to return to base, classified as Class A incidents and scrapped. As little information as possible on the English internet is available, given how much of a embarrassment Yugoslavia was to NATO in general, putting up a better fight than Iraq, forcing them to fight for every inch of ground they took.

 

>>3990
Source?

 

File: 1700353417239.png (239.62 KB, 803x727, ClipboardImage.png)

>>3994
acig.org used to have a database on every major conflict since WW2 and what aircraft were shot down, where, when and by what, and what the source was. The database was taken down a few years back and only a few pages remain on wayback, mostly those related to Iraq.
http://www.acig.info/artman/publish/article_404.shtml is the only one still functional outside archive and even then not fully since the source links are gone.
I searched archive.is too https://archive.ph/offset=100/www.acig.info

If you check sites like http://www.f-117a.com/Mishaps.html you'll see that there are nearly 70 mishaps with the F-117, but considering how few details we know even 3 decades later, and the fact that militaries tend to hide losses and label them as mishaps in the bureaucracy, it makes the 1999 incidents quite suspect.
I was unable to find the exact information on the third one, however I did locate a mention of the second, heavily damaged F-117A
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37894/yes-serbian-air-defenses-did-hit-another-f-117-during-operation-allied-force-in-1999
https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2021/03/26/david-vs-goliath-or-how-the-serbs-hit-two-us-f-117s-in-1999/

The 3-number claim is a Serbian one, but given the lack of physical proof the USAF denies it, just as it denies many of the air losses it suffered over Yugoslavia such as numerous F-16s that were shot down by SAMs, with only one being admitted since the Serbs have the crashed parts to prove it.
Even the New York Times talks about how the F-117 was not as effective as the USAF drummed it up to be in PR.
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/world/europe/032899kosovo-stealth.html

 

>>3990
> but 2 others, operating from a German-NATO airbase were hit by SAMs and barely managed to return to base
well then they weren't shot down

 

>>4007
>managed to return to base, classified as Class A incidents and scrapped
They were made non-operational with air defense as the catalyst.

 

>>4008
well then they weren't shot down

 

>>4009
If you want to whittle it down to the bare nub of it's meaning then no, they were not shot down. They were taken out of action, however, and from the perspective of air defence that's just as good as a kill.

 

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>>4006
>no actual source

 

>>3933
>>To safely fly in conditions where lightning is present, the F-35 relies on its Onboard Inert Gas Generation System, or OBIGGS, which pumps nitrogen-enriched air into the fuel tanks to inert them. Without this system, a jet could explode if struck by lightning.
>could explode
Doesn't mean it would at ever lightning strike.
This is just another safety feature that increases lightning strike resistance over any other jet without inert gas systems.

 

>>3748
Okay, let's be really specific abput what is wrong with this.
>INTEGRITY-178 is never at fault.
This seems believable. Keep in mind that a hardware issue (like a memory fault, or a piece of hardware that needs to power down before it can interface with the kernel again properly) isn't the fault of the OS, and that even if there was a problem in software running on the OS that wouldn't be the fault of the OS itself. They do have more constraints around what the OS will allow to run that get rid of some issues which could be present on software running on another OS, but this isn't even relevant to dismissing higher level software problems as not the fault of the OS, and of course any human interface can be designed in a faulty way that the OS fundamentally cannot judge the intentionality around.
>It never fails,
Again, believable for a limited claim about the OS itself.
>and can't be hacked
This is where he jumped the shark. "Can't be hacked remotely" would be a claim that is hard to be 100% on if we're being reeeaaaaaally pedantic, but I would understand what he was saying with that qualifier and might basically agree (I don't know the details, but it could be a believable claim). Things can be hard to hack via physical access – the ORWL was a good example in the space of consumer electronics – but not impossible, and "can't be hacked" without further stippulations is basically a non-starter.

 

File: 1700585314701.png (2.06 MB, 1920x1080, ClipboardImage.png)

>>4014
>t.can't read so "No source!"
Ok NAFO we get it you're butthurt.

>>4017
>Doesn't mean it would at ever lightning strike.
>This is just another safety feature that increases lightning strike resistance over any other jet
No, idiot. this means that the planes NEEDS that inert gas system to be safe. Commercial airliners get hit by lightning all the time and so do military jets as I posted >>3943
The very fact that you need a specific system to prevent the plane from blowing up when hit by lightning, and the fact that it is apparently unreliable to boot, boils down to the same point; the plane is vulnerable to lightning far more than other contemporary aircraft stated to be all-weather.
>military aircraft are designed to weather thunderstorms when necessary and complete their missions unscathed, even after lightning strikes. For instance, a single F-106B Delta Dart, a jet fighter from the 1950s, endured over 700 lightning strikes during NASA test flights, yet remained operational. While this is an extraordinary case, it illustrates that a lightning strike does not necessarily spell doom for a fighter aircraft.
https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2023/07/29/natural-lightning-the-thing-that-keeps-the-f-35-from-flying/

A plane that requires a specific system to prevent itself from blowing up and/or frying the computer systems and is prohibited from flying within a 25-mile radius of a thunderstorm while supposedly being a multi-role, all-weather fighter (named the Lightning II FFS) is a shit plane.

 

File: 1700586954668.png (393.33 KB, 598x675, F-35 milk.png)

>>4018
Honestly the very fact that back in 2018 the USAF was looking into specifically integrating methods of countering cyber-warfare from impacting the F-35 speaks volumes of software being "never at fault" or "never fails". Although you bring up a fair point about OS not necessarily being at fault, the maxim "never say never" is important, there is no such thing as an infallible system after all.
https://defence.nridigital.com/global_defence_technology_mar19/back_door_for_hackers_f-35_cyber_weaknesses_in_the_spotlight
Even sites that absolutely shill the F-35 and USAF such as Popular Mechanics, admit to hacking being a possible threat to the aircraft.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a25100725/f-35-vulnerability-hacked/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12535823/Im-former-defense-official-warned-F-35s-catalogue-safety-security-problems-years-ago-HACKED-malfunctioned.html

 

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>>4021
>>t.can't read so "No source!"
>Ok NAFO we get it you're butthurt.
>resorts to ad hominem
>still no actual source

 

File: 1700760723078.png (1.21 MB, 1274x704, ClipboardImage.png)

>>4024
>N-no source becuz I sed so!
>Everything is ad hominum!
<'le reaction image'
You're under the mistaken impression that they cared to give you the time of day, when you're clearly just going to nitpick for the sake of contrarianism. They've dismissed you, rightly so. The proof of this is in their more serious response to another anon.

 

>>3745
>>3744
>There are more F-35s!
<counts all F-35s produced including for other countries
By that metric we should count every MiG-29, Su-27 (and variants) and other classes of fighter and count them… Hell even just counting Su-27 variants from China, India and Russia already dwarfs the F-35 production line, let alone China's hundreds of other indigenous jets.

 

>>4032
>>N-no source becuz I sed so!
>>Everything is ad hominum!
Who are you quoting?

 

>>4040
>Hell even just counting Su-27 variants from China, India and Russia already dwarfs the F-35 production line,
Wow an obsolete 20 years + older aircraft that has a higher accident rate btw was more produced you say? Incredible zigger cope

 

>>4064
>>obsolete
it’s still blowing up new overpriced NATO dogshit and helping nazi hohols reach their space program so i wouldn’t call it obsolete :^)

 

>>4064
>Seething so hard that he can't write a proper sentence.
1 - by that metric the F-22 is obsolete too, and frankly so is the F-35 since it was originally developed over a decade ago. Age is also not a metric of effectiveness, the Su-25 continues to be effective as does the A-10. The F-15 Eagles is still a superb platform and is even older than the Su-27. The MiG-25 was only retired recently, and contended with the peak of American Engineering, including USAF fighters decades newer than itself while its variation the MiG-31 is still one of the most significant air to air threats to this day.
2 - The Su-27 does not in fact have a higher accident rate than the F-35, in fact its a very rugged plane that can take off and land in harsher conditions, has 2 engines in case of failure or damage to one, and so on. The F-35 is a plane that flies only due to its computer systems which aren't very reliable either.
3 - The production numbers for the original Su-27 and its variants, 680, the Su-30 and its variants, 630+, the Su-35 151+ airframes. All together that's over 1460 Su-27s produced, not counting Chinese Su-27 copies. There are 975+ F-35s of all variants built as of October of 2023 and many of the older ones are those produced prior to being accepted into service and are essentially defective units, not to mention that only 450 of those are actually in US service with a scattered handful in NATO operation, (a few dozen in Japanese and Israeli service for example) and the initial operation capability of those aircraft delivered is barely half, of the 46 received by the Netherlands in 2021, only 24 were capable of operating actively at the time, as the others needed adjustment… a critical issue for an aircraft that is supposed to be a fighter-bomber and the mainstay of Western airforces, not much of a mainstay when battle-readiness of a freshly delivered F-35 cannot be stated as 100% from the get-go.

So TL;DR: Cope more NAFOid.

 

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A few years back a Syrian S-200 unit was claimed to have shot down an F-35. The S-200 is by no means a bad SAM but is certainly much older than the F-35 even with the modernizations that the Russian military gave the Syrian military. Israel claimed the lost aircraft was a result of a bird-strike… the fact that the damage was so extensive it had to be sent back to the manufacturer (Lockheed) to be repaired brings up many questions. Russian S-400s have previously locked on to F-35s before, and the F-117 being hit by SA-3s (which are even older than the S-200 (SA-5) lends further weight to the possibility. The S-200 has previously hit Israeli F-16s, F4 Phantoms, A4 Skyhawks, various drones and a few F-15s among other Israeli aircraft, and is a proven air defense system, although Israel denies all of its losses. An F-35 is not an unreasonable possibility.

https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2020/12/327745/israel-claims-birds-not-syria-took-down-96-million-f-35-fighter-jet

https://lenta.ru/news/2018/02/11/f16/

http://www.skywar.ru/lebsyr.html

 

>>3723
There're flying with lunburg lenses

 

>>4099
For what purpose? Where's the evidence they're used for anything other than training?

 

>>4100
>For what purpose
Take a guess

 

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>>4102
If you're implying something about it being intentional to not reveal the plane's capabilities or to let the Russian and Syrian RADARs see them, then in both cases that's asinine considering the fact that the Syrian Air Defense force acts on its own, is directly in conflict with the US military and does shoot-down or attempt to shoot-down American Aircraft and missiles because they strike Syrian positions and air bases, this is doubly applicable with Israel with whom the Syrians actively clash with as I wrote.
So A) It's illogical for them to be doing this as it only hampers their mission capabilities against a hostile air-defense network
B) There is no proof they use them there to begin with, as Lunburg lenses are visible, pic rel from training missions and regular flights.

 

>>4099
the good old "we downgraded our own planes to let the enemy detect them" /k/ope, never not funny

 

>>4103
Syrian AD is non existent besides S-300 which is incorporated into Russian AD network and does not operate on its own. Every side of the conflict (Israel , US, Russia, Turkey) operates within their own area of operation and any strikes conducted outside of it done with some degree of a coordination between them when appropriate. US and Russia talk. They talk a lot and exchange information on positions of their forces and information on upcoming strikes to avoid the incenses. Same with Israel and Russia. Russia knows before hand when and what Israel is about to strike and Israel knows what areas are of limits for them. There's no direct confrontation between each side and Syria itself is not an actor.

 

>>4105
>Syrian AD is non existent besides S-300
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
S-200 units have been operating there again for years, Pantsir-S short-range systems, SA-3s and numerous other older Soviet air defense systems are operating other than the S-300. Was the F-117 that got shot down by the Serbs also using Lunburg lenses for some fucking reason? GTFO of here with this denial /k/ope.
>is incorporated into Russian AD network and does not operate on its own
Uh yes it is a seperate network, because otherwise that's an attack on Russian forces without provocation, which is a declaration of war, retard.
>Every side of the conflict (Israel , US, Russia, Turkey) operates within their own area of operation
<This tired nonsense again
Yeah except that Turkey, Israel and the USA regularly violate these agreements and the no-fly zone and attack Syrian government forces that are literally fighting ISIS with air-strikes, which is why Syria responds in turn.
>Russia knows before hand when and what Israel is about to strike
Ah like it did September 17, 2018? And that's Russia's military, not Syria's.
>There's no direct confrontation between each side
>Syria itself is not an actor.
This is a literal contradiction, either its the Russians shooting down Israeli jets and so on and so there IS direct confrontation, OR Syria is an independent actor. Take your pick.

 

>>4106
I know how things are done there and you don't

 

File: 1710719323585.pdf (1.42 MB, 197x255, gao-12-437.pdf)

>any malfunction
LOL accidentally deleted the full sentence
"Any malfunction or system failure would result in a catastrophic loss of the plane and possibly the pilot because of the lack in back-up systems.

>the most expensive military project in history to date.

Just to put more source and meaning to this. Back in June of 2012, the Government Accountability Office released a report called “Joint Strike Fighter: DOD Actions Needed to Further Enhance Restructuring and Address Affordability Risks,” in which it stated that the program might cost over $1 trillion to operate by the time it was finished, and at the time of the publication (pdf related) the expenditure on the program was $331.9 billion. Over a decade later and not only is the F-35 at roughly 50% capability, but it's expenditures exceeded the estimates, hitting 1.7 Trillion dollars and the number is rising. That's almost double the expected cost. By comparison the Gerald R. Ford Class Aircraft Carrier, which was developed and put into production in less than half the time period it took to create the F-35 has barely exceeded 40 Billion dollars. How is it that an AIRCRAFT CARRIER PROGRAM is LESS EXPENSIVE than THE STRIKE-FIGHTERS they're supposed to CARRY!? It's a Military-Industrial scam of epic proportions.
https://fee.org/articles/the-f-35-program-failed-to-deliver-working-jets-but-succeeded-in-transferring-hundreds-of-billions-to-contractors/

 

>>4106
Russian chief rabbi Berel Lazar, the Russian embassy in Israel and several Israeli officials admitted they coordinate strikes on Syria between Russia and Israel.

 

>>4625
Ah yes, just like they 'coordinated' their F-35s to cause AD to hit an Il-20M instead of them because they only let the Russian military know about their strikes on Latakia a minute before? Fuck off. And that's not to mention several other strikes that were done without giving Russia proper notice.

Finally I repeat - that's Russia's military, not Syria's, while they may be allied and linked, they are not one and the same, nor dow the latter control the former.

 

>US Navy ordering 17 more F/A-18 Super Hornets even though they has earlier stated to stop their orders
https://topwar.ru/239837-vms-ssha-zakazali-17-samoletov-fa-18-super-hornet-hotja-ranee-sobiralis-ot-nih-otkazyvatsja.html
Seems the carrier variant of the F-35 is so unreliable that the 4th generation of fighers will continue to be the backbone of the US air forces.

 

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You just can’t make this shit up. Lmao.
An F-35B Accidentally Shot Itself With A Gatling Gun
https://wonderfulengineering.com/an-f-35b-accidentally-shot-itself-with-a-gatling-gun/
>March didn’t start well for the U.S air force when a much costly air incident took place. F-35B stealth, the most expensive fighter jet ever built to date, accidentally shot itself while flying over Arizona’s skies.
>A single unit of an F-35B costs around $135.8 million, so at first, an aircraft’s accident doesn’t sound appealing at all. The aircraft had an externally mounted Gatling gun discharge a 25mm armor cutting explosive round into itself, leaving the aircraft with damage of approximately $2.5 million, as confirmed by the military officials.
<The Marine Corps’ F-35B carries the GAU-22 differently differently than the Air Force’s -A version. Unlike the -A aircraft, which mounts the GAU-22 inside the aircraft at the base of the left side wing root, the -B mounts the gun in a separate gun pod mounted to the airplane’s belly. This design change was due to a weight issue caused by the need to make the -B version capable of vertical takeoffs and landings. The Marines can leave the gun off the aircraft to reduce weight when necessary.
LMAO, this is literally a repetition of the F-4 Phantom not having integrated guns like in Vietnam, and using gun-pods to make up for it until the newer models came in.
>The F-35B stealth aircraft was performing a nigh time air support mission, while during its flight, the aircraft exploded a round of fire in a self-attack scenario. Fortunately, the pilot managed to land the super-costly aircraft to the ground, but the damage done isn’t at low either.
>It was a Class-A accident, as termed by the officials, directing towards a minimum of $2.5 million of loss or the aircraft’s complete inability to make it to the skies ever again.
Such superior American engineering. Just imagine a scenario of these scrap heaps doing an air attack on Iran or The DPRK and just get their Gatling guns hacked to shoot itself.

 

A lot of sources talk about how the F-22 and F-35 have 0.001 or 0.0001 or even 0.00001 m2 RCS (RADAR Cross Section). This is misleading at best, and straight up false at most. I'm going to write an effort-post on this particular myth of stealth-aircraft, one that Russia itself acknowledges, which is why it doesn't claim absurd RCS numbers like this.

 

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LMAO even the Poles, who suck the US DoD like it's a milky teat are talking about how bad and expensive the F-35 is.
https://topwar.ru/234617-stoimost-obsluzhivanija-rastet-lavinoobrazno-v-polskoj-presse-raskritikovali-istrebiteli-f-35.html

Considering the increasing Iran-Israel relations (or rather, lack thereof) throughout Spring of 2024, there's a possibility that the Su-35SE (export Su-35S's) of Iran will face off against the F-35i of the Israelie Air-Force. The Israeli's have some advantages, but only stealth is something the F-35 is superior in. Armament, flight-characteristics and so on are on the side of the Sukhoi, and the F-35's stealth is not invisibility, and Iran hasn't been idly standing by ignoring those capabilities. The only REAL difference is that Israeli pilots have more experience, but even then, it's been decades since the IAF has had a proper air to air opponent and striking ground targets is not the same as a dogfight, and BVR is by no means a guaranteed hit.
https://topwar.ru/241104-f-35-vs-su-35-vstrecha-budet-v-nebe-sirii.html

 

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F-35 continues to be a drain on the US economy. Lockheed deliveries are going to be over a quarter to nearly half the number its supposed to be and the poor combat readiness and high maintenance costs mean the F-35 will probably be obsolete by the time it properly enters full combat-capable service. Even the Military Industrial Complex is starting to get flak from their own best friends, the Pentagon.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/f35-sustainment-costs-44pct-controversy
https://www.gao.gov/assets/d24106703.pdf

 

>>3413
The truth holds it back, the reality pushes it down, the money keeps it afloat and more money pushes it forward.

 

Fulfilling a request by cross posting this here from the ukraine thread

>>1856668

>Lockheed is reporting that it won't be able to deliver 25-50% of ordered F-35s

And the military's solution? Use the f-35 less, lol

https://www.gao.gov/blog/f-35-will-now-exceed-2-trillion-military-plans-fly-it-less

>In March, the fighter jet marked an important milestone — “full-rate production,” generally the point when development reaches an acceptable level of performance and reliability to start building more of them, faster. F-35s have already been in production at or near full rate for several years. At the same time, the military services that fly the F-35 (the Air Force, Marines, and Navy) plan to use it less.


The recent report offhandedly mentions that it took 20 fucking years to finally reach full production.

https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-24-106909

>After nearly 20 years, the F-35 program moved into full-rate production after conducting its final simulated tests. At this milestone, DOD determined that the F-35 demonstrated an acceptable level of performance and reliability and could be manufactured faster.


And the best part? A 2-trillion dollar program requires another 2 trillion dollar upgrade.

>Hardware and software delays—specifically those associated with Technology Refresh 3 (TR-3)—are another factor driving delays and hindering the program's progress in completing the Block 4 modernization. TR-3 is a $1.8-billion suite of hardware and software upgrades that are critical to the Block 4 modernization effort. TR-3 suppliers have faced setbacks including supply chain issues and software issues. The program and contractor are resolving these issues.


How can Russia and China hope to compete????????????????

 

>>4977
Imagine how an actual war with these things would look when they can't even be maintained properly without contractors.

 

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This thread will always be the funniest thread until my country announces that we will be paying for F-35s as a service, instead of buying planes, and therefore subsidizing the US airforce and sacrificing more sovereignty. US is going to have to recoup the cost of this shit somehow and forcing vassals to pay is the only way.
https://hushkit.net/2024/05/20/trillion-dollar-trainwreck-how-the-f-35-hollowed-out-the-u-s-air-force-interview-with-author-bill-sweetman/

 

>>5020
Even the military can't get away from the rampant subscription model economy.

Seriously I can't believe the defense companies managed to hustle the government so bad with this, you would think there might be at least a few patriots in the air force that would point out that a jet that is supposed to do everything is fucking stupid.

 

File: 1717007237157.png (441.02 KB, 678x381, ClipboardImage.png)

Another F-35 fail - a brand new plane from the factory crashed when flying to its base.

https://topwar.ru/243326-v-ssha-razbilsja-istrebitel-f-35-kotoryj-osuschestvljal-perelet-s-zavoda-na-aviabazu.html

 

F-35 haters are wrong. Well, they always look at the small details like dumb ass defects and forget the biggest flaw of the F-35 is the air frame itself. It can't replace the F-16, F-15E or A-10 in CAS roles like it was supposed to because its too fragile and lacks maneuverability. It could loiter in the air but existing 4th gen aircraft can do this and carry more munitions not to mention cheap as fuck drones. It can't dogfight at all. It has a garbage turn rate and can't compete with the F-16 or F-15 not to mention the Rafale and newer MiGs and Sukhois. Those Su-35s are no fucking joke. Well okay, so its strength is in avionics and BVR and being able to stealthily loiter at range without being detected. Well that would be good if it was a missile truck with lots of weapons but it can't carry more than a handful without compromising its low observable stealth profile. It doesn't even have the speed (only Mach 1.5ish) to control the distance of a BVR engagement. Its also too slow to be a decent interceptor. So its utterly fucking terrible at the one thing it can do: long range engagements. This is a plane that is supposed to be a a do it all CAS, air superiority, multirole, strike, and a VTOL fighter but it can't do any of these missions well. Its a total piece of garbage.

Its a strike plain that can't carry dozens of weapons, its an air superiority fighter that can't dogfight or carry a fuck ton of AA weapons, its too slow to intercept, doesn't carry enough air to air weapons to box on the outside, its a VTOL plane that can't carry a fucking gun, its a light multirole fighter that's more expensive than an air superiority fighter which completely negates the whole fucking point of a light fighter. The only value in the F-35 is duping countries like Australia or Denmark into buying it so these countries chain themselves to the US defense industry and by extension US foreign policy and make them slaves to Uncle Sam. Why do you think the French opted out of buying them?

 

>>5053
Update on the F-35 crash. Apparently it was an an experimental test model which was being delivered from Lockheed to Edward's Air Base after refueling. The Pilot survived, having ejected and is stable but in 'serious condition' at a nearby hospital

https://archive.ph/jN0wz

 

>>5057
>first paragraph
Did you actually reword Pierre Sprey's F-35 rant? You (or rather he) aren't wrong, but LMAO.
>The only value in the F-35 is duping countries like Australia or Denmark into buying it so these countries chain themselves to the US defense industry and by extension US foreign policy and make them slaves to Uncle Sam.
They already are, it's just another boondoggle of the MiC, as usual.
>Why do you think the French opted out of buying them?
The frogs always did have an independent streak in them, besides they have Rafale and other industries, it wouldn't do their economy any good to accept the F-35.

 

>>5057
>F-35 haters are wrong.
F thirdy fibe is good.
Arrow-dye-namigs is wrong.

 

>>5022
The most patriotic thing an American can do is profit obscenely at the expense of the government.

 

File: 1717444341043.png (2.47 MB, 1980x1080, ClipboardImage.png)

>>5062
>>5061
>>5053
Not even a week later and not 1 but TWO Japanese F-35s had landing accidents.
https://topwar.ru/243638-v-japonii-sovershili-avarijnuju-posadku-dva-istrebitelja-f-35.html

This isn't one off either. Previously mentioned ITT was debris falling off a Japanese F-35 and another had a nose-landing-gear break in 2022.
https://www.outono.net/elentir/2022/12/02/the-recording-of-the-crash-of-a-marine-f-35-fighter-at-an-air-base-in-japan/

 

>>5083
>>5083
>Not even a week later and not 1 but TWO Japanese F-35s had landing accidents.
honestly this is the funniest thread on the site

 

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>>3151
>>3943
>Vulnerable to lightning; it's practically a lightning rod https://archive.is/QSIii
While not unique to the F-35, it's vulnerable to weather, a lot more than standard fighters like the 4th Generation and the Russian and Chinese 5th Gen designs.
I bring this up because the Pentagon is going to lose millions on F-35s that got caught in bad weather in Texas while they waited to be upgraded by Lockheed, and Lockheed is only warrantying 100K of the damages.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-07-02/weather-damaged-f-35s-parked-in-texas-may-cost-pentagon-millions

>>3933
Also on a tangent to this. The MiG-25 featured similar protection of its fuel, not because of lightning vulnerability (in fact the steel-hulled construction makes it pretty resistant to lightning) but because of the extreme heat caused by air-friction at its top speed, which caused expansion and compression of the aircraft, which could cause leaks; due to the fact that rather than conventional fuel-tanks, it carried fuel in adapted free-volume space within the aircraft, any leaks would directly contact the engines causing a flame up and detonation. Thus they needed to guarantee the plane wouldn't detonate if it ever got hit* or leaked, so they used high-tensile welding that resisted the contraction/expansion from the cooling and heating, used special T-6 kerosene with an extremely high ignition temperature, and finally, had a system that would fill the spaces with nitrogen as fuel was consumed, which would smother a fire before it began and act as a temperature reducer similar to the F-35, except it was specifically for the flight capabilities of the MiG-25, not protection from nature's elements.

*the sheer speed of the MiG-25 meant that it managed to outfly incoming missiles well into the 90s (such as MIM HAWKs and AIM-120Cs).

 

>>5207
they didn't even put the fucking things in a hangar??? based lockheed committing financial war against the US military

 

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>>3717
>>3719
>>3718
I wish this was true lol. It would be pure comedy and a wonderful chance for Cuba/Russia/China/etc. to study it.

 

>>5208
>they didn't even put the fucking things in a hangar?
Decades of pro-US military propaganda has made people think the Pentagon is more competent than it actually is. There are over 4000s aircraft stored in Arizona… open air, and most of them beyond repair, so they're just scrap metal. With tanks it at least makes sense even if its not ideal, with aircraft it's just asking for trouble. It's actually another reason the F-22 production line was stopped, every flight they had to recoat the stealth paint because it was too sensitive to the environment and degraded.

 

File: 1720980632779.png (1.13 MB, 2000x2694, ClipboardImage.png)

Fighterbomber made a telegram post about 250 Gigabytes of files he was sent, on the F-15 and F-35 as well as the Switchblade drone, JDAM and other weapons used by aircraft; flight manuals, basic instructions, weapons as well as information on weapons. Some of it he posted online. Pic rel.

https://www.newsweek.com/pentagon-f35-fighter-jet-intelligence-leak-russian-telegram-channel-1923865

 

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>>5207
>except it was specifically for the flight capabilities of the MiG-25
On this topic, the F-35 is apparently limited to short bursts of supersonic speed because its stealth coating and tail-fins lose integrity at supersonic speeds.
What this means is that it cannot intercept enemy aircraft or cruise missiles, nor fly long distances at supersonic speeds without essentially losing its stealth. While it can do so to get a mission done, essentially the result would be the plane requiring to be sent back for repairs after conducting a mission. A modern fighter jet is not supposed to have "supersonic speed as an emergency tactic".
>When you go into afterburner, you are heating up the outside of your aircraft.”
Which is why you have non-after-burning supercruise above the sound-barrier as a requirement for 5th generation aircraft. This is idiocy.
>limits were imposed after two separate tests in 2011 where the "B" model incurred “bubbling [and] blistering” of its stealth coating and the "C" model suffered “thermal damage” to the tailboom and horizontal tail
The flight tests were at 1.3-1.6 Mach, and according the test pilot involved several hours of flights at supersonic speeds with refueling in between. He stated that this isn't a real scenario, but the problem is that while an aircraft may not be flying for hours and hours at supersonic speeds, it most certainly will accumulate such hours over the course of even a couple flights, including training, let alone actual missions. So that means that most F-35s are going to show repeat damage to the tailbooms and stealth coating within a year of flights, OR pilots are going to be restricted training wise, and lack the capability to train for supersonic combat properly.
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2020/04/24/the-pentagon-will-have-to-live-with-limits-on-f-35s-supersonic-flights/
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/supersonic-speeds-could-cause-big-problems-for-the-f-35s-stealth-coating/

 

>>5231
Sick. I guess that means DCS will get even better since they had to program a lot of stuff off of speculation.

 

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/new-powerplant-f35-review-needed

>A new engine for the F-35 is considered an urgent priority for multiple reasons, among them the aircraft’s perceived wholly insufficient range and flight performance for operations over the Pacific. The only closely competing fifth generation fighter, the Chinese J-20, has over double the range and overwhelming superiority in all aspects of its flight performance, with its thrust/weight ratio set to be further improved through integration of the WS-15 engine. Perhaps more pressingly still, the F135 is already working at over double its intended cooling capacity at 30 kilowatts, where it was designed to provide just 15, forcing it to pull more bleed air from the engine to run through heat exchangers. This is set to become totally unfeasible as the upcoming Block 4 upgrade for F-35s across the fleet will raise requirements to 47 kilowatts or more. If not addressed, this cooling deficit is expected to cause $38 billion of additional costs for the Pentagon over the F-35’s lifetime, including greater maintenance needs and a much faster wearing out of the engines.


>An enhanced variant of the Pratt & Whitney F135 engine was confirmed on July 16 to have successfully completed the preliminary design review, placing it on schedule to be integrated on to future variants of the F-35 fifth generation fighter before 2030. Developed under the Engine Core Upgrade program, the powerplant was developed as an alternative to work on the Adaptive Engine Transition Program which had been intended to provide a clean sheet new powerplant for the F-35 with revolutionary new capabilities. The much more conservative Engine Core Upgrade program will provide far less ambitious specifications, lacking key features such as a “third stream” of bypass air system for greater efficiency and cooling and an adaptive cycle intended to significantly increase thrust and endurance. Benefits of the Engine Core Upgrade, however, include a much lower development cost than developing and entirely new engine, as well as commonality of maintenance with the several hundred baseline F135s already built. Where the Adaptive Engine Transition Program was expected to only be compatible with the Air Force and Navy’s F-35A and F-35C models, the enhanced F135 developed under the Engine Core Upgrade program will also be compatible with the Marine Corps’ F-35B.

 

New F-35 funnies
>In Japan, a US F-35 Lightning II pilot jumped from his plane
No other news properly reported on this, but video exists. It's theorized that the cause of this emergency fleeing of the cockpit was outgassing, possibly due to fuel leakage, which is a noted problem in the F-35.
https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2024/07/12/in-japan-a-us-f-35-lightning-ii-pilot-jumped-from-his-plane/

In a less direct aspect, the Pentagon has discovered that over 6 BILLION dollars meant for the F-22 and F-35 programs was "accidentally" sent to Ukraine, meaning that as of May 2024 the amount of money sent to Ukraine is not 107 Billion dollars but 113 Billion (or if you take into account the expenses of the Aid Bills, rather than 175 Billion, it's 181 Billion).
https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-us-aid-going-ukraine
https://www.stateoig.gov/uploads/report/report_pdf_file/fy2023_jsop_ukraine_response.pdf
https://topwar.ru/246846-pentagon-iz-za-buhgalterskoj-oshibki-ukraine-bylo-peredano-oruzhija-na-62-mlrd-dollarov-bolshe.html


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