/AKM/ - Guns, weapons and the art of war.

>>1458767
Because you can kill others with them
and yourself :DDDDD

>how important is the right for civilian firearm ownership or possession?
It's one of the most important things.

>>3263
Can you explain why?

>>3264
No.

>>3264
Because you can kill others with them
and yourself lol xD

Leftoid channers give too much importance to a completely irrelevant issue, they post the funny Marx quote and call it a day. Outside of leftypol I don't see anyone defend gun ownership very often.

since every single prole and lumpen ive met in my entire life is pro-gun the mass line dictates gun ownership good

>>3267
You know why that is, right?

>>3265
>>3269
it would help a lot with conversation if you actually stated your opinion instead of weaseling out

>>3267
The internet doesn't have real people on it. Go meet people at SRA or even lib gun groups and do real activism.

You do not need to fear what you can defend yourself against with lethal force. Nothing scares fascists like a few commies with guns. Look at how much they shit and pissed their pants over ONE picture of a transhumanist with an AR15.

Let's make them scared again, frens.

>>3271
why would i organize with gun organizations LMFAO i organize with neighbors and political parties

>>3261
>how important is the right for civilian firearm ownership or possession?
Critical
>Should the right to bear arms be a demand of the workers movement in countries where it doesn't exist?
They won't get it. If they do they won't use it. If britcucks somehow acquired firearms, then King Charles couldn't leave his palace.
>How do we differentiate between US-style reactionary paranoid 'gun culture' and fetishization of individualism versus a collective right to bear arms?
Commodification is the cause of those spooks. The right to bear arms itself is a spook. The gun industry, gun culture, and guns themselves are tools of oppression, etc. It is a bourgeois tool to be used against itself.

>>3270
My opinion is that you can kill people with guns

>>3261
>>3263
>>3271
>>3273
Incredibly burgerbrained thread. Your country and your culture sucks.

I don't really understand this obsession with guns. Even if you really must legalize having a gun, the least you can do is force your populace (like all of them) to learn proper gun safety and handling. It has to be as regulated as owning a car. Else what is the point?

>>3275
How do you intend to fight fascists who are using the state to exterminate you? with thoughts and prayers?

>>3275
Block a critical intersection you cuck

>>3275
shut the fuck up liberal

>>3276
>I don't really understand this obsession with guns. Even if you really must legalize having a gun, the least you can do is force your populace (like all of them) to learn proper gun safety and handling. It has to be as regulated as owning a car. Else what is the point?
wont any socialist country have workers militias and mandatory military service which includes training?

>>1458767
>even during protests blocking key infraestructure is a lot more useful than being armed to the teeth
😂. With all these videos of blm libcucks getting their heads bashed in by lumpen militia? Guns should be mandatory for all protests.

>>1458767
<how does a gun help me put food on my plate
Anon, I…

>>1458767
Easier to do that with a gun.
>>3263
>>3271
>>3281
>>3282
Based.
>>3267
You're talking to libs then.
>>3275
You're not wrong actually, this place sucks, but thinking we can make it better without guns is libbrained.
>>3276
Training should be done by organizers and parties. Regulations by the bourgeois state just leads to uneven enforcement.

>>3261
>Yeah yeah 'under no pretext'
I prefer "Political power grows from the barrel of a gun." He was wrong about the second part, but it illustrates exactly why the workers themselves must be armed vs the party itself being armed - the workers therefore put a real, material check on the party to ensure that it serves their interests. Lenin and Mao agreed that the interests of the party must not be distinct from the interests of the worker, but the only way to ensure this is to make the party subordinate to the workers by giving the workers the material basis of political power (guns).
>how important is the right for civilian firearm ownership or possession?
"Rights" are a meme but the practical reality of widespread if not universal firearm ownership and training is one of the most necessary elements of a revolution. In historical examples when AES experiments reversed course it was as a rule against the popular will of the people. By refusing to arm the proletariat as much as possible before, during, and after the revolution, the revolutionaries are signaling their distrust of the workers and their willingness to subvert working class interests for the sake of ideological purity, power grabs, or other reasons.
>Should the right to bear arms be a demand of the workers movement in countries where it doesn't exist?
Yes, since "rights" are the framework used in most countries to discuss these concepts, it's the "field" where we're contesting for opinion and action.
>What about under socialism/communism, would there still be firearm ownership?
If there isn't then it's already on track to be derailed by whoever does have the political power (guns).
>How do we differentiate between US-style reactionary paranoid 'gun culture' and fetishization of individualism versus a collective right to bear arms?
It's really not that hard. Start by teaching disciplined firearm use. That includes safety practices, understanding how the machine functions (at least in the broad strokes and how its features work), how to maintain them (disassembly, cleaning, storage, etc), and encourage or require regular training (it's an empirical fact that your skill degrades significantly without it). The desires of the working people to safeguard their communities is a strong enough basis from which a culture with a healthy relationship with firearms to arise.

The reason the US has such a paranoid schizophrenic gun culture is because it has a petty bourgeois class character. The central myth of US gun culture is of a "delinquent" (lumpen), usually PoC, breaking and entering to rob your small business or to rape and kill your family in your detached house in your segregated neighborhood. Proletarian gun culture would be built firstly upon a social consciousness wherein there is a mutual recognition of responsibility over public affairs. Prior to and above an armed populace we must have a responsible populace who can uphold the core functions today assigned to "law and order," namely those of conflict resolution and mediation. The type of de-escalation and negotiation skills that law enforcement officers ostenstibly use should be put into actual practice and training for everyone. Conflict resolution and de-escalation between citizens should be understood as a universal public duty. The guns are a secondary function here, simply leveling the playing field with respect to underlying threat of force (which is always present because people can be violent when unarmed). The only time it would make sense to actually use a weapon is to defend against or to avert violence against the people, including reactionary or counter-revolutionary violence. In reality of course, most people even with a gun and training aren't going to have the wherewithal to deal with threats spontaneously, but the more people who qualify, the more likely it is that somebody will and the quicker the response to stop it. With a more organized opposing force it's easier to get people organized to oppose them, especially if it's known that the workers have the means to do so. Reactionary forces would struggle to present themselves openly because they would be under very real threat of being gunned down by regular people who are far more numerous and "blend in" with the crowd because they are the crowd.

The great mass of workers necessarily outnumbers those who have a class interest or a false consciousness that would lead them to enact counterrevolutionary violence. Therefore, an armed populace creates both a powerful disincentive against it as well as the real means to stop it if necessary. This of course is not a total solution, but it is an important component to work in conjunction with special investigators tasked with combating reactionary forces. It bolsters rather than conflicts with the duties of a revolutionary police force to have the workers armed, capable, and ready to uphold the revolution when necessary, not only because they can serve as deputies if needed but also because it aligns both groups and creates public trust with a real social basis. The cheka should be a specialist wing of the proletarian militia, and the proletarian militia should be the expanded forces of the revolutionary army.

>>3284
Saved, well said comrade.

>>3271
>The internet doesn't have real people on it. Go meet people at SRA or even lib gun groups and do real activism.
I don't want to shit on people doing things, but I get the feeling from groups such as the SRA that it's more like a hobby for gun nerds who happen to have left-wing politics and the with politics are wrapped around the hobby to justify what they already wanted to do anyways. That's okay, though, I don't have a problem with nerds doing nerdy stuff, and there can be positives because shooting can also be like a sport that helps build some confidence, and there's an understandable logic in that far rightists in the U.S. are much more heavily armed. But, like, what would be the situation in which SRA meetup nerds actually use their guns? It's not like they're taking down helicopters with shoulder-fired missiles. I can't think of a single example of a gun being used in a political context in recent years in the U.S. that makes sense to me. Blasting a mass shooter who has been brainwashed by neo-Nazi internet memes would be a possible thing.

Also, like the anon with the Mao pic was laying out, the people's militias in China in the 50s/60s had more than just small arms, that was a mass army with communes equipped with light artillery and anti-aircraft guns which practically speaking, none of us here are participating in. Well, I only speak for myself.

>>3273
>If britcucks somehow acquired firearms, then King Charles couldn't leave his palace.
If they really wanted to lock Charles in his palace, they could do it, but I don't think most Brits actually care enough about Charles because there's not enough really ~there~ to care about. Even Charles seems aware of this, did you see him during the coronation? He looked miserable and was clearly not enjoying it, but he's also really into that trad shit and reads books about Guenon because he has to justify it to himself so it makes sense, because it doesn't, because the other royals are a bunch of unimpressive, uncurious, illiterate descendants of a group of warlords who came to that island 1,000 years ago to massacre its people. Their power is mostly symbolic now because the real power is in hedge funds and bond markets.

I almost feel sorry for the bastard.

But the online western left loves engaging in over-the-top anti-monarchism which, while totally justified – monarchies are in fact bad – directs a lot of the ire away from the real centers of power (which also makes you think about why the LaRouchites did it here in the U.S. for so many years). It's ultimately pointless and embarrassing as the trad people who think monarchism is viable and not… this. It's like getting really excited for, or screaming about, the Walmart greeters of imperialism which I think what one of the Chapo guys said about Queen Elizabeth.

Guns are expensive as fuck. Doesn't matter if you can legally own a gun or not when the average worker won't be able to afford it. How do we arm the workers?

>>3288
Rent 1200
Gun 200
Basic economics

>>3288
In the U.S., they're pretty well armed already. Go hang out with any Teamster local.

>>3290
I'm in Latin America

>>3288
I can find a 7.62 ak on layaway for 600$, for 25 percent down. Guns are cheaaaaap

>>3288
I mean it depends. The most economical option is shotguns, which can be had for ~$200 and give you flexibility in what you can load. A basic AR or handgun run closer to ~$500, and if you go the DIY/3D printing route you can save even more once you have the tools.

>>3288
If the cost of your ammo isn't exceeding the cost of the gun you aren't training with it enough for it to be of much use to you.

>>3288
used guns are cheap. I'm looking to buy four guns for $600 total. often you can find old farts selling their guns or (even cheaper) widows selling their dead husband's guns

>>1458765
Wait until you read a history book.

>>3280
>mandatory military service
I don't think conscription is a core military doctrine in socialist countries…

>>3264
The preeminent threat of any system of control or power structure is the ability for those at the top to abuse their authority. Weapons have played a key factor in our advancement as a species, as well as in the success of civilizations. Those in power have always expressly retained the right to the most technologically sophisticated forms of defense, despite the rest of the population not having it. Guns having the killing power they do does not negate the fact that citizens of a nation have the right to their own survival, which now may require a gun.

>>3297
Didn't the eastern block countries, norks, etc. have conscription?

>>3287
>pic 1

doesnt even make sense because gun control is about sales of new guns it does nothing to get rid of the guns that already exist

>>3281
will never happen because a huge amount of the "left" in the US is made up of wine moms and boomer dads who are centrist libs that are afraid of radical politics and just wanna grill. Anything like that would turn them off

>>3299
IIRC most had around 2-3 years of mandatory military service if you didn't go to higher education

>>3267
Supporting guns outside of anonymous or conservative spaces gets you CANCELLED. 🤣

>>3261
the 2nd amendment was talking about state regulated public militias.
marx was talking about workers militas – i.e. labor unions that double as militias. organized groups like rose city antifa.
it's hard to find real justification for Republican voter John Cowboy walking around with an AR-15 in public

>>3281
>Guns should be mandatory for all protests.
I've heard some say that bringing guns to protests is fed shit and a recipe for disaster, which one is it and why? Would concealed carry help?

>>3305
its both. At this point guns are so common in America its not like them being present at protests is exactly unheard of seeing as rightoids have been open carrying AR's at protests for years. That being said I wouldn't advertise it myself, i think its a good idea to own guns but wouldn't bring them to a protest just yet

american socialists dont make up for a lack of organizing with bringing up the 2nd amendment challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)

>>3303
huh that must be why the post is talking about channers

>>3277
the third world is still better than you fuckers at fighting fascism without firearms rofl

>>3309
Not really considering there's no socialism in the third world either.

>>3310
yet american protests are mocked world-wide for being the most pansy ass shit ever

>>3311
also on the basis that they rarely happen and are incredibly small

The bourgeois legal right to bear arms doesn't matter much in a revolution because revolution is illegal and the workers will seize the arms whether they are allowed to or not

>>1458767
>how does a gun help me put food on my plate
Ever hunt

>>3312
>>3311
that has nothing to do with levels of civilian firearm ownership but rather America's culture and economic status in the world capitalist system

>how important is the right for civilian firearm ownership or possession?
All people in a socialist society should be taught the basics of using and maintaining firearms. I don't think it's necessary for everyone to own one but everyone should know how to own one responsibly.
>Should the right to bear arms be a demand of the workers movement in countries where it doesn't exist?
Refer to >>3313
>What about under socialism/communism, would there still be firearm ownership?
Only insofar as there's mandatory training, membership in the local worker's militia and registry for all people who own firearms with associated tests for obtaining licenses.

>>3311
>the most pansy ass shit ever
You should see Australian "protests"

>>1458767
Hunting
Also, if you're a black protester protesting the massacre of an unarmed black person, what are you gonna do when pigs or rightoids militias (which will be armed) show up looking to unblock the intersection?
Nobody tried to pull a Rittenhouse on the Black Panthers, open carry and declare your intent to defend yourself and others. It's already been successfully tried during drag shows. It keeps unarmed rightoid agitators away and the worst case scenario is that you have a weapon when rightoids start shooting at you and can shoot back instead of martyring yourself like a useless christcuck.

>>3318
Western Marxism loves purity and martyrdom, but not real revolution

>>3319
>>3311
americans have guns because they will never use them. most europeans don't have them because they will use them.
>>3287
>Guénon
are you sure about this? the modern aristocracies of europe still seem influenced mostly by renaissance catholic-humanism.

>>3284
excellent post, comrade.

>>3318
>It keeps unarmed rightoid agitators away and the worst case scenario is that you have a weapon when rightoids start shooting at you and can shoot back instead of martyring yourself like a useless christcuck.
Here's a counter-example where I think an armed protester might've attracted rightoid attention. In Austin during the BLM protests, one guy was carrying an AK-47 (his girlfriend, who uses a wheelchair, was with him). A U.S. Army sergeant then rolled up in his car and shot and killed him. He was just sentenced to 25 years in prison for murder. He had made posts about how he wanted to shoot a "looter." He also claimed self-defense but the protester with the AK didn't raise his weapon, and while the sergeant's car was intermingled with the crowd, he could have simply driven away unharmed.

And it's like, yeah, the AK guy didn't do anything wrong, he was just targeted. But it seems like the sergeant thought he might be able to get away with it by targeting him and claiming self-defense. So brandishing a gun so openly can make you a target.

>>3320
>are you sure about this?
Not totally sure because I don't know a lot about it, but Charles is apparently into Guenon, yes, or the particular school of Traditionalism associated with him. There are some articles about it.

Here's an example of some left-wing gun stuff that I find pretty stupid. It's a left-wing gun club in Dallas-Fort Worth that got bumrushed by the cops recently at a demonstration and arrested with cop body cam footage broadcast in the media showing these guys getting BTFO'd. The guns did not help them at all.

They were also by themselves in a small group wearing black outfits, but there's no larger crowd to blend in with, and they are wearing a bunch of colorful morale patches on their gear which didn't even make them particularly anonymous. I think this a thing that happens when people substitute belief in the masses or organizing within the masses for their small group, and they compensate for the lack of effectiveness by ramping up the radical aesthetics and "militant" posture.

(Also don't underestimate the lengths that cops go to insert agents into left-wing groups to get them to do stupid stuff that will get them arrested.)

>>3324
>They were also by themselves in a small group wearing black outfits, but there's no larger crowd to blend in with, and they are wearing a bunch of colorful morale patches on their gear which didn't even make them particularly anonymous.
Those are just anarchists

>>3326
I researched and they were just protecting some drag show.

>>3326
Tell me about it.

>>3327
Yeah. Here's the problem though, they went up to a small group of right-wing nerds who were protesting it, who didn't seem like much of a threat if you ask me, and then attacked one of them with pepper spray. Then the cops started arrested them and they were useless at preventing that.

But there's something wrong here. Or they have taken it upon themselves and their own group to ride in like the cavalry to save the day while making the situation worse.

>>3324
>>3323
the best thing to do i think is leave the gun at home, but have a gun just in case. I agree taking a gun to a protest is maybe not a good idea

>>3284
very nice, capped

>>1458767
>how does a gun help me put food on my plate
Hunting was always big in anglo countries, especially the colonies because there was so much wild game (at first). The US currently has a deer overpopulation problem because the colonists exterminated the wolves that kept their numbers in check, and if they weren't being actively hunted for population control they would kill off forests by eating too much undergrowth. Also lots of people get in car crashes because of deer but that's more of a problem with cars.

and of course
obviously
>how does a gun help destroy capitalism so we can replace it with a system that doesn't cause artificial scarcity of food

>>3324
>I think this a thing that happens when people substitute belief in the masses or organizing within the masses for their small group, and they compensate for the lack of effectiveness by ramping up the radical aesthetics and "militant" posture.
I think it's largely a problem of not wanting to do the appropriate legwork for the historical moment you're in. Right now in these places the work to be done is in revitalizing the labor movement and injecting class consciousness into the mobilized working class. The time for muh revolution is pretty far off, but some bozos don't have the patience (or, let's be honest, the seriousness or genuine concern for the workers) to do any of that because they want to be the cool commies like they've seen pictures of.

That said, the problem here is not really the guns but the tryhard aesthetics which are too radical for the average person and as you said too obvious for their (small) numbers, making them just an easier target. It's not even good visual PR because people see this and they associate your visuals with getting fucked up by cops. Whereas if you were just dressed like a normal person and the cops came and fucked you up, people would see it as cops fucking people up.

>>3333
whoops dropped my flag

>>3334
dwork bless

>>3332
>It's not even good visual PR because people see this and they associate your visuals with getting fucked up by cops.
Yeah exactly. A lot of people when they see someone getting fucked up by cops tend to think "that guy probably did something to deserve it" even when they didn't (and sometimes they did!) but the quantity of people who think you did something to deserve it goes up considerably when you're dressed in all black and wearing a mask and a helmet. But these guys, these specific guys believe in idealistic thing where people will awake from their slumber when they see the cops fucking them up.

>>3336
just one more recording of police brutality bro just one more

>>3336
>>3337
in latin america youre considered a fucking dope if you bring out your shitty phone instead of actually helping someone being taken by cops during a protest

it gets worse because these retards will then upload the vid for clout and wont even blur their faces

>>3336
Yeah like I was saying if they just looked like normal people then it would be closer to the effect they want of bad PR for the cops, because then it wouldn't be one "faction" against another but just cops against people.

>>3337
I'm documenting so hard.

/AKM/ weigh in here.

what is the best gun(s) for a leftist to buy? at low income vs high income?

>>3323
I guess the lesson is to not carry alone. And if you are, carry concealed.

>>3342
the guy who was killed in this instance was carrying an AK. How df do you carry an AK "concealed"??

>>3284
Excellent text!

>>3345
i love out of context marx quotes

>>3346
The context:
>At the moment, while the democratic petty bourgeois are everywhere oppressed, they preach to the proletariat general unity and reconciliation; they extend the hand of friendship, and seek to found a great opposition party which will embrace all shades of democratic opinion
>from the very moment of victory the workers’ suspicion must be directed no longer against the defeated reactionary party but against their former ally, against the party which intends to exploit the common victory for itself
>To be able forcefully and threateningly to oppose this party, whose betrayal of the workers will begin with the very first hour of victory, the workers must be armed and organized. The whole proletariat must be armed at once with muskets, rifles, cannon and ammunition, and the revival of the old-style citizens’ militia, directed against the workers, must be opposed. Where the formation of this militia cannot be prevented, the workers must try to organize themselves independently as a proletarian guard, with elected leaders and with their own elected general staff; they must try to place themselves not under the orders of the state authority but of the revolutionary local councils set up by the workers. Where the workers are employed by the state, they must arm and organize themselves into special corps with elected leaders, or as a part of the proletarian guard. Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.

>>3347
and you really think the historical context back then is the same as now
inb4 "we still have capitalism xdddddddddddddd"

>>3348
Yes.

>>3284
All this makes a lot of sense, but I don't trust my reactionary trans phobic neighbors to protect me with their guns rather than manufacture a season to kill me with them. I don't really want guns near me.

>>3341
Whatever you can use and is legal insofaras you can openly practice and train with it.
Also join a club first to train grass touching which is, imo, massively underappreciated part of firearms' safety practices.

>how important is the right for civilian firearm ownership or possession?
Its the most important right. More important than free speech or right to assembly.

You are not going to fight off the u.s military with your pistol

>>3343
That's why you don't carry an ak ya nard.

>>3350
Is this the best reply a glowie can muster?

>>3357
I'm not a glowie. Calling people glowies who aren't make you look like a conspiracy theorist

>>3350
>I don't trust my reactionary trans phobic neighbors to protect me with their guns rather than manufacture a season to kill me with them.
You shouldn't. You should want guns because they would come kill you whether they have guns or not, as soon as they think liberal society has broken down enough that they could get away with killing you.

>>3313
seize them from where lol

>>3359
yeah this tbh, they can easily kill you without guns in a whole bunch of different ways anyway

>>3359
This once again simultaneously sounds like it makes sense, but also like burger propaganda. In reality, people with guns are more likely to die from them.

>>3362
just dont kill yourself then

>>3362
>In reality, people with guns are more likely to die from them.
That's a product of a couple of compounding factors, mainly to do with bad gun culture. If you aren't a moron about gun safety and you don't go waving one around to look tough and you're not depressed/suicidal then you're not going to put yourself at significantly greater risk of death by firearm.

The post I was replying to was (I assume disingenuously) about a minority group being in danger from hate crimes. If that describes you then dying by violence is a lot more of a function of vulnerability to hateful people and organizations, or being relegated to neighborhoods with a lot of poverty and ambient crime/gun violence.

But by all means show the stats that prove that ackchyually the marginalized people most vulnerable to systemic violence need to be disarmed for their heckin safety. Reminder that in the US, gun control was invented to disarm free black people after the civil war so that lost cause confederaboos would have an easier time doing massacres against them.

>>3363
Wow, suicide rate drops to 0% with this one neat trick!

I love guns but I think that
-Firearm safety should be a late elementary school class
-Instead of individual ownership rights, we should have collective access to communally owned firearms, including heavy weapons such as mortar and machine guns.

>>3366
There was an Australian rural politician who said he'd like to do that.
Also imo firearms education and practice just seems like a learning to drive a vehicle.
You do the theory, practices for X time to move up to Y grade, then do a refresher every Z years or it expires.
Firearm safety is basically a trade and natural or material science.

>>3365
the involuntary suicide rate is 100% just dont be a pussy and choose life

>>3366
>Instead of individual ownership rights, we should have collective access to communally owned firearms
Couple problems with that
>when the RWDS is at your door, the people's militia is only 10 minutes away
>when the guy overseeing the community magazine decides him and his buddies start deciding who are the real ass revolutionaries
But sure it works for things like artillery.

>>3366
hell yeah the people's suicide chamber

better for leftists to be armed

>Should the right to bear arms be a demand of the workers movement in countries where it doesn't exist?
Yes, absolutely.
Luckily we have growing black markets selling guns and knives in these countries. Atm its mostly lumpens who are taking advantage though.

>>3297
Every socialist country will be different
>inb4 muh trotskyist global gubbmint

>>3348
You sound one step away from unironically saying "the founding fathers were talking about muskets"

>>3327
LOL
typical anarkiddies, always having their priorities straight

>>3324
>this a thing that happens when people substitute belief in the masses or organizing within the masses for their small group, and they compensate for the lack of effectiveness by ramping up the radical aesthetics and "militant" posture
this is everyone in leftypol who cant shut up about muh guns

>>3377
Its better than nothing
I suppose some would prefer if we were all castrated liberals engaging in the public discourse, but we dont have a place there, because we are threats

>>3377
>every burger in leftypol
ftfy