No.956
What would have happened if Kirchies were alive? Only 2 people have defeated Yang, Kirchies and Hildegard von Mariendorf.
No.957
This series was a big disappointment in the end. Nothing but a big wank off of anacyclosis with weak character development, the whole thing felt like wasted potential.
No.3864
It was a really long time ago I watched it, but I remember thinking it did a good job with its depiction of a bourgeois state's corruption. It certainly isn't Marxist or even leftist though.
I'm only really watching three shows this season so I may give this a rewatch.
No.3865
I was pretty disappointed with this series when I finally finished it. It's mostly just a big wank off of Polybius's anacyclosis with weak character development. The whole thing felt like wasted potential.
No.3866
I think we already have a LOTGH thread
No.3874
>>3863It is very good show, but from political-economic perspective it is very liberal, it is an ultimate reflection of the liberal view of politics.
Watching this before i was marxists was pretty good. Watching it as marxists is somewhat tiresome.
No.3875
Yang was the author's self-insert.
No.3900
Would it kill you to put LOTGH or Legend of the Galactic Heroes in the OP so that the thread doesn't vanish if it goes below Page 1?
No.3907
I think its view of history is warped, or at least it appears so. The relationship of the characters with their environment and the impact they have thereon seems to suggest that the show supports "great man theory".
Some bloggers have written about that:
Pro:
https://medium.com/@ProjectRob/the-conservative-heart-of-legend-of-the-galactic-heroes-8d3d41d128faCon:
https://desperatetimes914496456.wordpress.com/2020/02/21/legend-of-the-galactic-heroes-too-critical-for-its-critics/I find the notion that it supports GMT more believable; it is shoved in the viewer's face in moments like when Schoenkopf says that he wants to save Yang because "history would be boring without him", which implies that history wouldn't be moving if Yang was dead.
Although it isn't necessarily related, the fact that what appears to be a semi-feudal autocracy had coexisted with a bourgeois democracy for ~150 years is telling - it suggests that governments, economic structures, and culture are alien to the material conditions that exist and the level of technology & science. This is obviously anti-marxist.
No.3919
>>3907That's ironic considering that LOGH was inspired in part by Romance of the Three Kingdoms and it is stated at one point in Three Kingdoms that heroes only arise during times of chaos. One of the characters even laments that in a peaceful age he would be nothing more than a mid level bureaucrat.
No.3920
>>3907The Narration supports great man theory, one of the spiels the narrator tells you like 4 times says "history is the collection of the actions of great men", that's why the show is named that, the title itself is a play on this.
However the claim that it supports it and it is reactionary are two different ones, the guy in the other article is right. Mainly, in that the show does seem to imply that history as told by the narrator is warped, and that Reinhard is not necessarily a conservative. mostly, it seems the actual ideology of the show is somewhere between liberal and dengeist (a progressive figure that abolishes the aristocracy makes economic reform, and creates a progressive authoritarian regime in a Japanese show just reeks of dengeist to me).
What I think would be more interesting to think about is this, if the show implies the narrator is telling you his version, then from that version, what would be the actual story of the world? Now that's a real story worthy of being written
No.3941
>>3919On that topic, some of the most prominent protagonist characters in RoTK lose the war in the end, and there's even one that gets killed off by his artisans after he works them too hard.
No.3942
More thicc LOLIS could improve it for the otaku masses.
No.3951
>>3907Having given it some thought I have to side with the "it's anti GMT"-camp. I think we are underestimating the extent to which this show is self-conscious.
Note for example how the supposedly "brilliant" stratagems that the various characters use to win this or that battle are typically rather banal. You can put this away as lazy writing - the character is brilliant for the purpose of the story, but it is told in stead of shown.
However I started to notice how often, almost every time, there is always some character in the other camp who anticipates what is to come, points it out to the superiors, and is shot down. So clearly we are not dealing with uniquely genius insights. Moreover the outcome of the battles is in almost all cases over-determined by the preceding circumstances. The most obvious case being the invasion of the Empire by the FPA really on - with no clear plan beyond "we'll be greeted as liberators" their defeat was assured before the invasion started, no genius opponents needed. Another case is the noble coalition, which falters more to its own internal tensions and weaknesses (factionalism and ill discipline mostly) than to a particularly genius approach by Reinhardt and company.
The characters who are portrayed as the brilliant great men, then, are so portrayed not because they are shown to be brilliant great men, but because that status is useful for other actors behind them - which is made explicit several times. Yang is initially very useful as a hero to Trunicht, while Reinhardt is the linchpin of the coalition of officers around him, threatening to fracture as soon as he suffers a breakdown for a couple of days. In his case it is Oberstein, arguably the real brains of the operation, who maintains him as figurehead.
History in the show is seen to be made through larger forces that determine the outcome of things, the characters can only be the vessel for larger forces, influencing what is already slated to happen at the margins. Which fits well with Yang - the historian - 's signature move, making the best of a bad situation.
No.3952
>>3907 Maybe the Narrator indulges in GMT but I can't really say the same for the author. He did (albeit very clumsy and barely) mention that Imperials vastly outnumbered the Alliance in men and technology, and also mentioned the Alliance's devastated economy in the constant. Yang was right to suggest a ceasefire or peace treaty as the only way for the Alliance to win the war against the Imperial in the long term.
It is still pretty bullshit how Reinhard can turn around social welfare and the economy of the Empire in just a few years though.
>>3951>how the supposedly "brilliant" stratagems that the various characters use to win this or that battle are typically rather banal. You can put this away as lazy writing - the character is brilliant for the purpose of the story, but it is told in stead of shownTbf most of Yang's tactics and strategies are directly copied from great maneuvers in history. IIRC His last real fight against the Empire before his assassination is literally Hannibal's Battle of Cannae in Space.
No.3962
>>3951>>3952I mean the author seems to be imitating the style of evens of real history, which of course means that regarless of what the show contains both interpretations are going to apply, since even if unconciously, the guy is good enough of a writer to include material details that point in both directions, which i think is the fun of the show somewhat. But i think that even so, his belive in GMT bleeds through, in stuff like the backstory of the universe and the narrator. Which why i think this anime could do without that, without the objective narrator telling you what you are supposed to think about the events. Although the backstory is still interesting, i like how they presented it as a tv show in universe, like clearly that was not a real portrayal of what happened, and it is left for us to interpret what actually happened
No.4467
>>4888
No.7191
How can I watch this?
No.7192
>>7191There are no official English releases, so you have to find a pirate site
No.8355
>>8348Yes he does but to be fair, the death star was already built, only the engines were a new addition. However the Reich built 2 death stars before Reinhard took power so you have to wonder were the money and resources needed to build those came from. Later on in the series Reinhard's new Reich is planning to build 3 additional death stars to defend the imperial capital. We also see nonsense (at least in the anime) like peasant farmers using animal power or at best 20th century looking tractors. Yet these peasants are part of an economy that can produce 10s of thousands of space battleships. The author glosses over the whole economic aspect of things.
No.8356
Author clearly self-inserted as Yang.
No.8359
>>3907I think you're reading too much into the "history would be boring without you", yang wasn't the type to support GMT at all, being a young historian and avoid democracy enjoyer.
For sure, the imperial history segments are filled with such propaganda tho
No.8364
>>8355Those fortresses might take generations to construct too.
viet_congViet Cong No.10684
I tried to watch it but it made me sleepy so I watched Fist of the Northstar again instead.
No.10740
>>3863I get the sense that the author of the novel was attempting to rationalize WWII and the Japanese loss as well as their new alliance with the Americans/British who bested them. The book was written in the 1970s-1980s. The Soviet Union is still around on Japan's doorstep, the space race has 'finished' and Japan is a rising economic power with a decision to make about it's future that is strikingly similar to the 1930s again. The bubble economy of the 1990s hasn't happened yet as far as the author is concerned.
In my view and I believe the author's, an honest appraisal of Imperial Japan's strength must include an overthrow of the 'legitimate' emperor by a random wild eyed military man. Tojo=Reinhardt as much as he is an Caesarian/Napoleonic stand in. Is that stability? Is it desirable that we all pound our chests about ancient pride when any whipper snapper worth his salt can come along and upend society?
An honest appraisal of Democracy must also account for corruption and how to remove it from the 'throne'. It is harder to do but worth striving after if the people can be engaged and guided by historical understanding rather than a faux patriotism/militarism which is in no one's long term interest. Yang Wen-li and the Trunicht/Jessica Edwards arc. LOGTH manages to 'both sides' the problem without losing touch with the real differences between the systems.
The only things worth fighting for are the people you care about because they will have your back seems to be the ongoing lesson of most Japanese thought from this series onward, so it is good to see it arrive in what amounts to it's young adulthood.
And beware of Capitalists interested only in seeing their enemies eat each other to preserve the status quo and their own profits. Phezzan
A good to great series overall, though the remake was a disappointment both in the art and the plot emphasis (great OP for what it was worth). The remake plays the notes of the story through a neoliberal vocoder is the best I can describe it.
No.10760
>>10740Do you think the books are any different from the anime?
No.11380
>>955>this board would be better if kircheis were hereagreed
No.12059
>>10684Me too, until I got seriously interested in politics a few years later, and now I'm binge-watching it.
It's fun and I never get bored with it. Quite the opposite from the first time I tried watching it.
No.12145
Is there any communism in this series or at least some references to it? From what I've seen, there's only one joking mention of anarchism and a serious one of capitalism. I find it hard to believe that communists wouldn't have taken advantage of the multiple crises to gain support. That's about the only thing that I find annoying about this story, it's like communism doesn't even exist, but it would make perfect sense for it to play a role here. The novels would have been written when the Soviet Union was still around, yes? That makes it even weirder.
No.12146
>>12145LOGH is about democracy vs autocracy, there's no communism. I remember a throw-away line abou Fezzan being "socialist", but there's nothing socialist about it.
No.12161
I tried to watch it thinking it was going to be an incredibly smart anime about war and politics but I got to the point where Yang is talking to this general dude about trying to destroy some space base, and he was like "we've tried like 5 times" or whatever. Cue some defectors on the background dressed in space monarchist uniforms (for some reason) and I thought the conversation was going to lead to having already tried and failed to infiltrate it using defectors or something and Yang was going to come up with a convoluted plan to make it work this time, instead Yang the genius just says "DUH HOW BOUT WE TRY TO INFILITRATE IT USING THE DEFECTORS THAT ARE LITERALLY STANDING BEHIND ME" and the general is like "HURR I CANT BELIEVE WE HAVEN'T TRIED THAT BEFORE UR A GENIUS YANG WE LITERALLY SENT SHIPS TO THE FRONT DOORS OF THE IMPENETRABLE FORTRESS ARMED WITH A SUPER LASER CANNON 5 TIMES IN A ROW BEFORE YOU GOT HERE". I shut down this piece of shit anime.
No.12162
>>12161Yeah everyone but the main characters are incredibly retarded as
>>3951 pointed out.
(That aspect of the series gets better as the retards die out imo)
No.12164
>>12145idk, maybe references to communism don't sell that much in Japan unlike nazis
No.12171
>>12170I think so, it's been years since I last watched LOGH.
No.12257
>>10740>the remake was a disappointment Inferior, but still pretty good. if it exposes new people to the original all the better. I'll watch season three this year to see if it improves.
And for all its faults the remake has better scripted pilot episodes by a mile, pretty important for a series imho.
No.12269
>>10740>>12257>the remake was a disappointment both in the art and the plot emphasis (great OP for what it was worth). The remake plays the notes of the story through a neoliberal vocoder is the best I can describe it.>Inferior, but still pretty good. if it exposes new people to the original all the better.OK, I guess now I'm watching the remake too, then. I know it's not gonna be as good the original but I don't want to rewatch that one just yet and I'm starving for new content. (Not very interested in the Gaiden series, at least not yet. Might read the novels tho, but are they even in English?)
>And for all its faults the remake has better scripted pilot episodes by a mileWhy is that?
No.12277
>>12269Original series constantly jumps between alliance, empire, and fezzan in ep 1 and 2, while Reinhardt is already aware he is facing Yang. While typical of lotgh to opt for this more distant, expository storytelling, it does take the tension out of the engagement as shown.
In the remake, episode one is restricted to Reinhardt only, with a cliffhanger just as (a still unknown) Yang introduces himself. Then episode two gives you Yangs pov and the conclusion. It's a solid device to hook your audience, and gives the series a fittingly theatrical introduction. This approach works against the remake in the long run, since the larger story doesn't lend itself to these conventional tropes by and large. But it's a solid way to kick things off with a bang.
No.12291
>>12277I see, thanks.
OK, I'm downloading season 1 right now.
btw is there a reason why the second and third seasons are being released as films?
No.12310
>>12277>>12257But hey, huh, isn't the first "episode" actually the movie
My Conquest is the Sea of Stars? I think that one's a much better introduction to the series but it doesn't look like everyone realizes that's meant to be watched first. I actually watched it
after.
No.12321
>>12310Yeah, but as you say people don't tend to realise it. Best way to watch today would be conquest, overture, then episode three and on. Or even just starting at overture if you're looking for accessibility tbh
No.12326
I'm happy that more people are talking about this anime on this board and that this thread has been active lately. Although I still wish I had gotten into it sooner. Maybe I could've reacted in real time on /a/ when the remake came out, cuz there's a lot of minor stuff that I hate about it so far.
No.12356
>>12326Season three soon comrade! We'll do much complaining I'm sure. Or maybe praise, if they step up their game a bit (one easy win: expanding the ost in stead of repeating the same three tracks), we'll see.
No.12360
>>12356>repeating the same three tracksHoly shit, I thought it was just me who wasn't paying attention to the soundtrack.
This OST is such a massive downgrade from the original, but I suppose that's just stating the obvious.
Also I wish they would stop adding music when it's not necessary (such as when someone is talking but nothing else is going on), it's distracting and cheapens the battle scenes, at least in the first season which is where I'm at. Is this an attempt to make the boring dialogue more "engaging" or dramatic?
I also liked the first OP
Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now especially because I'm sick of generic j-rock/j-pop anime OP songs, but it's still unfitting IMO. The ending song is alright I guess.
Anyway, looking forward to season 3.
No.12581
I'm reading the novels right now and the plot in the """remake""" (more like re-adaptation) is actually much closer to the original source than the old OVAs, so I take back a bunch of what I thought about it initially.
>>10740>The remake plays the notes of the story through a neoliberal vocoder is the best I can describe it.How so?
No.12687
>>12581I don't get that either. There's a lot worse about the remake (though I refuse to call it bad, it's just a legitimate cheesy take on the story), but the politics are mostly the same
No.12844
>want to show this anime to someone
>doubt there are any subs in our language
>there are, actually, but they're shitty because they're based on the older, more inaccurate subs and because I personally didn't like them for a variety of reasons
And that's how I ended up subbing the first episode of an 110 episode long series. It only took me half a month, maybe I can finish the rest by December!
No.12848
>>12844Post your fansub Ep1 dude.
No.12852
>>12844Absolutely based. Remember to upload a torrent to nyaa for posterity.
No.13348
>>12844You're the hero that old anime deserves, what language btw.
No.13505
>>12848Sure, but I want to wait until the first few episodes, and possibly also the first movie, are done to start uploading them. I'm also getting feedback from some of my friends to see if my translation sounds right. I could post some screenshots though (just please wait until I get on that PC).
>>12852Of course, that's just what I plan to do.
>>13348Spanish.
In case you're interested in the process:
The old Spanish subs are just translated from the old English subs by Central Anime, but as far as I know, the guy who did these didn't know Japanese (at least at the time), so he couldn't have possibly corrected or even noticed the translation errors found in CA's subs. This renders some scenes in the first few episodes straight-up incomprehensible. Add to that some punctuation and spelling errors sprinkled throughout the script, and the fact that it's European Spanish (as opposed to Latin American); the former is irritating (to me, kek) and can lead to some confusion, and the latter makes it a bit harder for the average Latin American to process each line due to differences in vocabulary, grammar, and so on. And lastly, it's a hardsub. These are all the reasons why I decided to do my own version.
At first, my subs were just going to be directly translated from MTBB's correction of Sentai Filmworks' official English subs:
https://nyaa.si/view/1200083 https://nyaa.si/view/1337263#com-19But after encountering some ambiguity in several lines, and using my limited Japanese skills plus some research to figure out the intended meaning or find a more appropriate Spanish translation, I started to translate some lines a bit differently from the English subs as I see fit, and as long as my Japanese allows me to. I also use the novels (both the English version and the original) for reference. In general I did a lot of research when I started, both from English to Spanish (the most difficult part so far has been the military ranks and other military-related terms and phrases) and from Japanese to Spanish. This took a lot of time.
So that's why translation progress has slowed down lol
However, I'm using OmegaT to make a Translation Memory + a glossary so the more I translate the easier it should be to translate more episodes.
No.13726
I found this note in the script for episode 2 kek
>>13347basado
I like that Yang, a character of Chinese descent from a Japanese SF novel, is quoted by this character who is of Japanese descent in a Chinese SF novel. Quite a funny coincidence, isn't it?
No.13742
Die Neue These season 3 episode 1 dropped yesterday on Crunchyroll btw
(Of course, its premiere was in Japanese theaters on March 4)
No.13853
/a/ has the shittiest, most infantile takes on LotGH. I'll never participate in one of their threads again, lmao
No.13854
>>13853>going on /a/ for good discussionThe only /a/ threads that aren't total trash (or at least not when I used to go there) were threads for Naruto, One Piece and for some reason Louise the Zero.
- Dragon Ball? Latinos shitposting and being fags
- Hunter x Hunter? circlejerking over the same shit over and over again
- Tanya the Evil? "Ohhh I luv anticommunist cunt-loli!" (see
>>795 thread)
- Konosuba? The same dead reddit memes about useless Aqua and lolicon cravings over Megumin
- Gundam? Same generic takes over and over again about literally nothing
- Evangelion? Asuka v Rei, HOAD, Kaworu uvu and more shit takes.
- Every classic old anime? "Totally not that deep fag! Stoopid leftist materialism, let me fap to my rightoid fantasy!"
The only reason AoT isn't mentioned is because it got memed the fuck out.
No.13857
>>13854I'm glad that the far-rightiod fags who self-insert as Arin got totally whiped out. I feel like the author is just some dumb lib who overly valorized some fascist asshole MC Mary Sue and wanted to knock him down a peg despite how illogical it was.
No.13861
>>13857Yeah I think the author realized he'd been going too hardline fascist and decided to just keep on cucking the MC.
No.16402
>>3863Nearly the whole thing was leading up to social liberal propaganda.
No.16440
>>11342>it is not as anti democracy as many people claimIt's actually more anti-democratic than people probably even realize. Because it does the historically-ignorant thing where it conflates republican oligarchy with democracy when in fact for two thousand years after Aristotle it was understood to be its opposite. This old bait-and-switch is one of the most calamitous errors of modern politics and most people commit it in total ignorance after having been brainwashed since childhood by Jefferson's Orwellian disciples.
No.16509
>>3863The series thesis is not consist of dialectical materialism but Republic-Caesarism cycle. Not a good education. Ngl Alliance should've ended with Yang agreeing to lead the coup & establish a military Soviet.
Unfortunately, Yang didn't want that. That's the mistake. But the franchise didn't frame his value as an error yet inevitability. That's ultimately still Japanese nihilism.
But of course, it's still debunked the end of history doctrine before its time.
Yang ideology however, proven incorrect & should've been depicted as such. Then it can be a critic of militarism because ultimately it disheartens people to the prospect of progress. As a historian, Yang couldn't have overlooked the material contradictions of his country yet he choose for idealization of values, is pretty much a fatigue of social conscience that plagues even someone like him. THAT is the real tragedy.
Yeah, resign after take office for a certain time is a good precedent (since Yang is so pro-democracy). But tbh there's a lot need to be fix affirmatively in Alliance (like what kind of solar system that lacks food, how its development & how its distribution). From that foundation alone, the Empire better off than them. Because their domains mostly consist of agrarian feudal states.
No.18683
>>12145They reference a "commune" at one point when on Iserlohn
No.18684
>>18683Commune is also a common administrative division
No.18837
>>3863>Have any of you guys ever seen this?"Sometimes it gets so hard without you…it seems to me, the whole world's away"
Absolutely Beautiful, I started it in late Nov and finished it towards the end of January and thought it was the peak of anime, the death of Yang was really hard to watch, inducing genuine anxiety and the feelings of foreboding in me. The critic in me would have rather both Reinhard and Yang to have lived though, and prefers the show prior to the culmination of the Terra assassination. After watching the first two movies, I think I'll watch the new series before finishing all of the old stuff to savor the older experience.
No.18871
Good anime. I watched it years ago but I'm thinking about rewatching it again.
No.20763
>>20761>screaming about loli out of nowherefuck off
No.20775
>>20763>This retard doesn't recognize the "take a seat" reference>Doesn't recognize the "1000 year old vampire/demon loli" joke that's been staple of weeb community humor for decades>Immediately gets defensive about "muh loli"Sounds like you got something to hide schizo-newfag. Lurk moar and relax your anus.
No.20782
>>20761I want her to shoot me uwu
No.21806
>>10688I think that these scenes were definitely an influence on OG Evangelion's battle bridge look
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