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Have any of you guys ever seen this? What did you think with its messages related to democracy / authoritarianism and such?


It was a really long time ago I watched it, but I remember thinking it did a good job with its depiction of a bourgeois state's corruption. It certainly isn't Marxist or even leftist though.

I'm only really watching three shows this season so I may give this a rewatch.


I was pretty disappointed with this series when I finally finished it. It's mostly just a big wank off of Polybius's anacyclosis with weak character development. The whole thing felt like wasted potential.


I think we already have a LOTGH thread


It is very good show, but from political-economic perspective it is very liberal, it is an ultimate reflection of the liberal view of politics.

Watching this before i was marxists was pretty good. Watching it as marxists is somewhat tiresome.


Yang was the author's self-insert.


Would it kill you to put LOTGH or Legend of the Galactic Heroes in the OP so that the thread doesn't vanish if it goes below Page 1?


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I think its view of history is warped, or at least it appears so. The relationship of the characters with their environment and the impact they have thereon seems to suggest that the show supports "great man theory".
Some bloggers have written about that:


I find the notion that it supports GMT more believable; it is shoved in the viewer's face in moments like when Schoenkopf says that he wants to save Yang because "history would be boring without him", which implies that history wouldn't be moving if Yang was dead.
Although it isn't necessarily related, the fact that what appears to be a semi-feudal autocracy had coexisted with a bourgeois democracy for ~150 years is telling - it suggests that governments, economic structures, and culture are alien to the material conditions that exist and the level of technology & science. This is obviously anti-marxist.


That's ironic considering that LOGH was inspired in part by Romance of the Three Kingdoms and it is stated at one point in Three Kingdoms that heroes only arise during times of chaos. One of the characters even laments that in a peaceful age he would be nothing more than a mid level bureaucrat.


The Narration supports great man theory, one of the spiels the narrator tells you like 4 times says "history is the collection of the actions of great men", that's why the show is named that, the title itself is a play on this.

However the claim that it supports it and it is reactionary are two different ones, the guy in the other article is right. Mainly, in that the show does seem to imply that history as told by the narrator is warped, and that Reinhard is not necessarily a conservative. mostly, it seems the actual ideology of the show is somewhere between liberal and dengeist (a progressive figure that abolishes the aristocracy makes economic reform, and creates a progressive authoritarian regime in a Japanese show just reeks of dengeist to me).

What I think would be more interesting to think about is this, if the show implies the narrator is telling you his version, then from that version, what would be the actual story of the world? Now that's a real story worthy of being written


On that topic, some of the most prominent protagonist characters in RoTK lose the war in the end, and there's even one that gets killed off by his artisans after he works them too hard.


More thicc LOLIS could improve it for the otaku masses.


Fuck off


Having given it some thought I have to side with the "it's anti GMT"-camp. I think we are underestimating the extent to which this show is self-conscious.

Note for example how the supposedly "brilliant" stratagems that the various characters use to win this or that battle are typically rather banal. You can put this away as lazy writing - the character is brilliant for the purpose of the story, but it is told in stead of shown.

However I started to notice how often, almost every time, there is always some character in the other camp who anticipates what is to come, points it out to the superiors, and is shot down. So clearly we are not dealing with uniquely genius insights. Moreover the outcome of the battles is in almost all cases over-determined by the preceding circumstances. The most obvious case being the invasion of the Empire by the FPA really on - with no clear plan beyond "we'll be greeted as liberators" their defeat was assured before the invasion started, no genius opponents needed. Another case is the noble coalition, which falters more to its own internal tensions and weaknesses (factionalism and ill discipline mostly) than to a particularly genius approach by Reinhardt and company.

The characters who are portrayed as the brilliant great men, then, are so portrayed not because they are shown to be brilliant great men, but because that status is useful for other actors behind them - which is made explicit several times. Yang is initially very useful as a hero to Trunicht, while Reinhardt is the linchpin of the coalition of officers around him, threatening to fracture as soon as he suffers a breakdown for a couple of days. In his case it is Oberstein, arguably the real brains of the operation, who maintains him as figurehead.

History in the show is seen to be made through larger forces that determine the outcome of things, the characters can only be the vessel for larger forces, influencing what is already slated to happen at the margins. Which fits well with Yang - the historian - 's signature move, making the best of a bad situation.


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Maybe the Narrator indulges in GMT but I can't really say the same for the author. He did (albeit very clumsy and barely) mention that Imperials vastly outnumbered the Alliance in men and technology, and also mentioned the Alliance's devastated economy in the constant. Yang was right to suggest a ceasefire or peace treaty as the only way for the Alliance to win the war against the Imperial in the long term.

It is still pretty bullshit how Reinhard can turn around social welfare and the economy of the Empire in just a few years though.

>how the supposedly "brilliant" stratagems that the various characters use to win this or that battle are typically rather banal. You can put this away as lazy writing - the character is brilliant for the purpose of the story, but it is told in stead of shown
Tbf most of Yang's tactics and strategies are directly copied from great maneuvers in history. IIRC His last real fight against the Empire before his assassination is literally Hannibal's Battle of Cannae in Space.


I mean the author seems to be imitating the style of evens of real history, which of course means that regarless of what the show contains both interpretations are going to apply, since even if unconciously, the guy is good enough of a writer to include material details that point in both directions, which i think is the fun of the show somewhat. But i think that even so, his belive in GMT bleeds through, in stuff like the backstory of the universe and the narrator. Which why i think this anime could do without that, without the objective narrator telling you what you are supposed to think about the events. Although the backstory is still interesting, i like how they presented it as a tv show in universe, like clearly that was not a real portrayal of what happened, and it is left for us to interpret what actually happened


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How can I watch this?


There are no official English releases, so you have to find a pirate site


Any hints where?



File: 1619826412646.jpg (184.64 KB, 720x540, 1460089329044.jpg)

Thoughts on Oberstein?


he has aspergers


File: 1620960333596.jpg (238.86 KB, 1280x960, 1485624041482.jpg)

The dialectic given flesh, did nothing wrong.


File: 1624037384720.jpg (40.03 KB, 512x384, liquiddeathstars.jpg)

Doesn't Reinhard seize all of the traitorous nobles wealth which basically gives him unlimited money cheat so he can add giant fucking engines to his liquid death star and the Reich still does not have any problems when it goes kaboom.viet_congViet Cong


Yes he does but to be fair, the death star was already built, only the engines were a new addition. However the Reich built 2 death stars before Reinhard took power so you have to wonder were the money and resources needed to build those came from. Later on in the series Reinhard's new Reich is planning to build 3 additional death stars to defend the imperial capital. We also see nonsense (at least in the anime) like peasant farmers using animal power or at best 20th century looking tractors. Yet these peasants are part of an economy that can produce 10s of thousands of space battleships. The author glosses over the whole economic aspect of things.


Author clearly self-inserted as Yang.


I think you're reading too much into the "history would be boring without you", yang wasn't the type to support GMT at all, being a young historian and avoid democracy enjoyer.

For sure, the imperial history segments are filled with such propaganda tho


Those fortresses might take generations to construct too.viet_congViet Cong

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