No.17468
Hello old thread. So how about that Shin Ultraman thing.
>>14978Ah, I remember that existed a while ago. Thought I'd check it out but still haven't. I'm barely keeping up with JoJo.
>lovecraftian, physics/universe defying entitiesHuh. I'm up for anything but I feel that sort of thing would better work with something like Ultraman, unless it's about the ayys. I like goji as the human-made abomination or ancient superbeing he usually is and having this basic hunk of flesh and nuclear power face off visually lovecraftian creatures would be cool to see. 2nd pic related. C*lt*sts mad seething, eternally coping at simple truth.
>>14979Miraculously finished this last year. I should check the 2nd season. The stuff with the drift was actually interesting and absolutely what people wanted to see played with.
No.20691
Not quite mechs but the Leviathan book series (mentioned in the RWBY thread
>>11499 ) has some factions using mechanized warfare (Austro-Hungarians and the Germans) exclusively, with various mechs and mechanical flying contraptions, while others (like the British) used organic creatures that have life threads (DNA) manipulated to create organic vehicles and creatures meant for various civilian and military purposes, and then some, (like the Japanese and Turks) mix-and-matched the 2 technologies, combining them. All this to say there's a lot of interesting mechs in that series. Pic rel is one of the smaller 'Walkers'.
https://leviathanscottwesterfeld.fandom.com/wiki/Walkers No.20817
>>20675>Its being released free on youtube for some reason too because they never cared about piracy. they always wanted us to waste our lives on this slop instead of asking questions
No.20848
>>20817 I mean piracy or not, an opportunity to make a profit is strange for them to pass up.
>they always wanted us to waste our lives on this slop instead of asking questionsOh bugger off.
No.21024
>>845pleasingly rotund, rubenesque even
No.21590
>>21589>Evangelion's aspects had satiresatire? it was a fucking love letter to mecha
No.21591
>>21590>love letter to mecha<satireThose are not dichotomous, and yes there is satire of typical mecha tropes in Evangelion, it's literally one of the reasons it's so well known. Parody of something is often done because the subject is liked and being poked fun at. EVA-fans do that all the time, taking the piss out of Anno and NGE even if they actually like the show.
>the mere character development pokes at the notion that a 14-year-old would deal with unimaginable burdens in such a way that is mature and brave. It is utterly ridiculous, and Anno makes fun of it by having angst-ridden teenagers complain and have nervous breakdowns.>In the first several episodes, the series is presented very much as a mecha show, and other than a few clues here and there, it's not until much later that the audience is informed of anything otherwise. More deconstructive elements begin to show as the series progresses, but one of the most upfront subversions to the genre is having Shinji as a non-traditional hero and his continual existential crisis over being a pilot. We eventually learn the series isn't really about Shinji's struggle against the Angels, but that it's more about his struggle with himself. The apocalyptic and exaggerated imagery of the outer world becomes window dressing for the bleak reality of the inner struggles of human characters. Eva is a deconstruction because it presents itself initially as one thing, but subverts that expectation by taking familiar elements and doing something completely different with them.https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GenreDeconstruction No.21593
>>21591lol this dude really just quoted fucking tvtropes and claimed eva is a deconstruction. older mecha anime that anno liked also had children piloting robots and presenting them as miserable
No.21594
>>21589>>21591Jfc this is painful. I diagnose you with Essay Youtuber brain.
>>21593"Deconstruction" in regards to genre appears to entirely be an invention of tvtropes in 2007, probably made specifically for defending uneducated opinions about Evangelion, and it has jackshit to do with Derrida's actual term.
Evangelion was for a long time the first and longest entry in their examples of deconstructions. I don't think it's an unfair assumption to say the page was probably made for Eva. The problem is in the mid-90s to earlier 2000s there was a whole lot less easily available Mecha for English speaking audiences. At the time I think a lot of people's conception of mecha was voltron and power rangers. Of course Eva would seem like a brutal takedown in comparison.
No.21595
>>21593>quoted TVTropesLMAO except I did not, you prove that you don't read for shit; those excerpts aren't from the TV-Tropes site at all, nor would that be a valid argument to my statement that a love letter to mecha anime is not dichotomous to said love letter also being satirical.
>claimed eva is a deconstruction Because it is, this is pretty universally agreed on and people saying otherwise are always just contrarians, like yourself.
>older mecha anime that anno liked also had children piloting robots and presenting them as miserable1) Not in the same manner, for example in Gundam, the children are like fucking 'Nam vets, in the shit so much they go full War-Criminal psycho.
2) An older anime also being deconstructive of a genre does not make EVA not a deconstruction. Japanese Mecha is loosely divided into Super-Robot and Real Robot sub-genres, and Evangelion appeared to be the former, rather than the latter, but subverts these expectations in many ways
I've never heard the argument that Evangelion was the first deconstructive mecha anime, from anyone, so unless you're trying to argue that an older work having themes means a newer work cannot echo similar ideas or themes, this is completely pointless to bring up.
No.21599
>>21594 >I diagnose you I diagnose you with No Argument projector syndrome, especially considering your autism about Derrida's termin of Deconstruction being different to TVTropes, which ignores the development of terminology and its definitions/applications changing over time.
>The problem is in the mid-90s to earlier 2000s there was a whole lot less easily available Mecha for English speaking audiences. At the time I think a lot of people's conception of mecha was voltron and power rangers. Of course Eva would seem like a brutal takedown in comparison. LMAO Gundam and other popular mecha was available at the time, I remember watching it. Voltron is older than Evangelion while Power Rangers were contemporary to it. Anime in general was niche as fuck at the time, but that's obvious and is not relevant here, since the community that saw Evangelion was mostly made up of people already well acquainted with Japanimation and mecha in particular. Obviously there were deconstructive/satirical/subverted mecha anime before Evangelion, but they were also different, and Evangelion was full of what people currently call deconstruction, not just of mecha. Just because another anime shares some themes or vaguely similar deconstructive elements as Evangelion, does not take away from Evangelion's impact or meaning. Gundam and Gunbuster have their own merits, and they are unique to them, just as Evangelion is unique to itself, the former does not take away from the latter and vice-versa. This retarded 4/a/ idea that you HAVE to drag one work through the mud by dick-measuring it to another is fucking retarded and only applies to something like Darling in the Franxx, because unlike Evangelion which only referenced older anime, it is literally just a rip-off with an inserted Abe-themed story-line.
Even within Derrida's terminology
>Shinji isn't a coward, but just acting the way a fourteen year old kid would if told that he must fight the giant monster outside, especially in the context of him seeing it destroy the Japanese Military just a moment ago. That sounds exactly like a deconstruction to me, and that's just the basic plot, not going into the issues of the 3 waifu-subversions in Shinji's life (Rei, Asuka and Misato) and their own demons. Deconstruction is the opposite of its root term, construction which comes from "construct", which is defined regarding media as
"2.To create by systematically arranging ideas or expressions; devise with the mind." Construction is defined regarding media as "4.The interpretation or explanation given an expression or statement", thus for something to be a deconstruction, it must reinterpret what is being presented, to demonstrate the underlaying meanings or impacts it may have. This does not make a deconstruction an end all be all, or necessarily true to something, but it attempts to do so. Note that Deconstruction is hard to define, and even in the dictionary the meaning is very vague.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deconstruction?useskin=vector#Difficulty_of_definition No.21600
>>21597 I mean this is just entertaining discussion for the sake of it, at the end of the day, if some contrarian wants to be mad about me liking Evangelion, that's their problem, I'm just having fun discussing it.
Also
>Evangelion<children's cartoonsLMAO
No.21605
>>21594>>21593Decided to take a moment to see the claim about "Eva is not a deconstruction" or whatever and found a very coherent take by user Mwohl
>Deconstruction is not just a 'super bitter' critique or a subversion of expectations (e.g. Shinji falling in his first sortie). It's the pursuit and exploration of the core tenants of a work or genre to the point of revealing the internal contradictions it is built upon. This is absolutely something EVA does. Starting from the common narrative goal of 'Pilot the Robot to save the world", EVA first asks "What is a Robot?" (exploring not just the horror of the biological machine that is an EVA but also the implication of a weapon like a mecha in general, a thing made by Man that supersedes his strength and understanding), then "What are 'we'?" (exploring the concept that the otherworldly enemy humanity faces and the weapons used to fight it are actually extensions of each other, and also the notion that the thing one fights against is never truly entirely other) then "What is the world?" (the discourse had after Instrumentality). Ultimately, the idea that the world is a reality you choose based on compromises with the people you form bonds with, and that you can change that reality based on your worldview and outlook, calls into question whether a giant fighting robot was ever the tool with which Shinji's world -or any world- was going to be saved. >The last of these is carried out in a very post-modern and Brechtian manner, as the sequences in episodes 25 and 26 jump between being abstract visuals that are only possible in the medium of animation and the 'theater' setting, complete with spotlights that make a mechanical thunk when they turn on or off. However, even the concept of 'backstage' has been deconstructed by this point because the drawn and animated characters being in a theater is obviously more of a complete illusion than a pencil sketch of Shinji floating in a void. (This is taken to a new extent in EOE, where live action footage of the film theater itself is included.) >The fact that some of these events echo those of previous mecha illustrates the extent to which EVA is a Post-Modern Deconstruction, because these questions are being asked in the context of works that have brushed up against these themes, but not turned fully into the meta-textual focus that EVA takes up. Just because you can find plot points in other shows that parallel events in EVA doesn't mean it doesn't function as a deconstruction of Mecha, or of anime at large - because it does. However, you're welcome to continue with the soul hurt.…
>Being a completely original thought isn't a requisite of deconstruction. It's the fact that these examples listed above, along with a myriad of others, are all compiled together in EVA that make it significant. >Also, there's the distinction between a topic coming up in the plot of story and its inclusion causing the character and the audience to question the legitimacy of the reality of the show. There's that part in Gundam 79 where Amuro (essentially an unwitting child soldier) thinks it's unfair for him to be forcibly conscripted into the Earth Forces just because he can pilot the Gundam, but it's presented in a way that encourages the audience to respond emotionally (with sympathy for Amuro), not intellectually (in questioning the purpose and meaning of that trope's existence). So, just because something's been explored doesn't mean it's been deconstructed.Deconstruction is not necessarily a criticism, and even criticism is not necessarily the same as hatred. Anno most certainly was criticizing otaku culture, but he also is a part of it and likes being one, but that does not make it a perfect community by any means.
PS The deconstruction term on TV-Tropes did not, in fact, originated there in 2007 as you claim, it's usage as we see it defined today originated on textboards and forums long before that and TV-Tropes literally was formed by these same people originally.
PPS. Gunbuster was also a work of Anno's and there are portions that directly are contradicted in Evangelion, such as the mecha casually destroying large numbers of mooks (which is a classic anime trope in general) while the Mass Production EVA's which fall to Unit 02 initially, are inevitably going to beat Asuka, subverting this trope and also providing a deconstruction through the superiority of the MP-EVA's compared to the 3 we've seen so far.
No.21606
>>2019Wasn't the Doshka mech a Soviet one in-story? Or am I misremembering?
No.21608
>>21569critical support for the MIC
No.21611
I don’t really care, the original anime was at least way more realistic about the realities of putting children in charge of such a massive responsibility and even had a fleshed out explanation for how the mechas worked so it didn’t feel completely fictional. Even better Eva 1995 did a lot to discourage adults from seeking escapism as a means to deal with their problems with its bittersweet ending. That’s why I liked it, it’s a reconstruction that stays true to the logic of its setting.
No.21615
Does anyone else have a love-hate relationship with the writing in Zeta? There's genuinely interesting political themes going on, such as the aformentioned colonial struggle, enviornmentalism, the critique of war continued from 0079, the degeneration of the Earth Federation government, but mein Gott there's some infuriating shit in this anime. For starters, the overarching flaw that was constantly bothering me was how badly the dialogue was written. Most interactions feel stiff, abstract and unnatural due to the characters explaining all the subtext surrounding their relationships and the age/gender/position norms they're funneled into, all in abstract and somewhat polite vocabulary that isn't appropriate to their situation. 0079 had several scenes that managed to move me to tears, like the time when Ryu and the others who died in the fight with Ramba Ral, M'quve and the Tristar got a post-mortem special two-tier promotion at Jaburo and Amuro was outraged at the callousness of the Forces, or Miharu's death, followed by the scene of Kai grieving on the floor of the White Base after he realized what happened. In those moments, Zeta would probably make the characters give unnecessary mini-speeches about the horrors of war and the sanctity of human life instead of the moving, raw emotional displays that managed to convey all you needed to know about what the show was telling you. The problem of the shallow emotional impact that Zeta projects also applies to the characters, Kamille feels more like the average shounen anime's MC-kun rather than a lost teenager who just committed several incredibly serious crimes and saw both of his parents get fucking killed. He quickly rises to become the ace of the AEUG and his weaknesses only surface when people dear to him die one by one and towards the end of the anime when he's too traumatized and tired by all the shit he was forced to participate in to function as a normal human being. Char's arc is pretty good, but for some reason the subplot about growing out of his fake persona gets abandoned at the end, which is a decision that probably cost Zeta a better final arc compared to the Scirocco thing. That being said, the only 2 characters I truly dislike are Reccoa and Sarah, their arcs were completely nonsensical, with only surface-level explanations given as to why they're willing to pursue their death drive to the extent that they do. The cast is pretty strong, and I'd probably like them better were it not for the flaws I listed.
No.21642
>>21615Apparently some of Tomino's co-writing staff on 0079 didn't come back for Zeta
So I guess it just boils down to Tomino's quirks not being kept in check
No.22423
>>20675So I watched the entire series in one go and I thought it was kind of fun. It's not like Kong the Animated Series from the early 2000s but its pretty interesting and well animated for a TV-show and the characters are neither typical heroes nor modern caricatures. Even the goons aren't just brainless blank slates that you don't feel bad for. Its also not squeamish about violence without being gratuitous about it. I found most of the cast likeable in one way or another and the overall plot, its a good beginning and the atmosphere of it reminds me of Pacific Rim: The Black, which was pretty unique and good in itself. I just hope that the second season doesn't get shelved like Blood of Zeus did, especially since it was already written and nearly ready back in October.
7 or 8 outta 10 overall.
Also as a side note I didn't realize but there's a live action TV series also about kaiju, Monarch: Legacy of Monsters with a Season 2 on the way as well, so it looks like good, niche content is on the rise.
No.22425
>>22423>Monarch: Legacy of Monsters So far the 3 episodes I've seen are interesting but Episode 7 is apparently written by M.Tamaki, so that's gonna suck.
No.23850
>>22425Watched the rest finally and wow that was fucking trash. TL;DR: The majority of the 2015 storyline feels like a teen drama from the CW with a pinch of Stranger Things science-fantasy mystery. The 1950s plot on the other hand feels natural, like it could make for an interesting period-piece type story, similar to Kong: Skull Island, however we barely see very much.
By Episode 9 I took to fast-forwarding through the portions with the whiny, bipolar, retarded kid trio. Everything they are, do or say makes me wish Godzilla stomped on them. Kentaro is a fucking indecisive wuss, his half-sister is a toxic cunt, the Ex-girlfriend is a childish ass. This utterly unlikeable behavior from all 3 of them isn't initially obvious but becomes more and more apparent the further the story continues.
Seriously, the black chick who was Kentaro's girlfriend proceeds to cuck him with his half-sister… like fucking what?! This is literally a rehash of Legend of Korra's MaKorra ship being shoddily shifted into KorrAsami, down to the two of them going into the portal to another 'world' like the end of LoK and the Black chick's real name being Corah; that cannot be a coincidence. Funniest part is that the defense for their awful writing and characterization is the exact same deflection that Bumbleby and KorrAsami shippers used a few years ago to justify their toxic tastelessness;
"LOL if you don't like my terribly forced gay ship, that means you're just a miserable person" The only good humans of the show is Colonel Shaw (played jointly by Kurt Russell and his son, Wyatt), Keiko (the dedicatedly studious and beautiful Mari Yamamoto) and Bill Randa (Anders Holm portraying the younger version of the character John Goodman played). They should have been the main characters, their story, acting and setting is much more compelling. I hope Ms. Yamamoto gets many more roles because by god she fucking carries the female side of the main cast. The French woman who changed sides to help Colonel Shaw was also ok, she reminded me of Monique Dupre and she did have decent motivation and acted consistently and like an actual strong woman and not a hysterical teen pretending to be one. The only other good part was the special effects which were quite good for a TV-Show and the kaiju fights/appearances, which weren't long but were effective. I particularly liked the design of the FrostVark, it's design and rapaciousness reminded me of a cross between a Starry-Nose Mole and a Desman except huge. The Ion Dragon was also a creative design although I think it definitely took inspiration from the Gyaos among other things.
No.23864
http://dargol.blog3.fc2.com/blog-entry-4241.html>"What I want modern day Gundam fans to understand is that Gundam wasn't nurtured by the PlaModel enthusiasts. It was young women who first came to the after recording studio, and Gundam is a work that began with their support. And it was a work that had no connection to the popularity of Gundam PlaModels. So I think the most important thing is creating a work that will attract those kind of girls to it again. I don't think movies as an entertainment industry can succeed without touching on that kind of fundamental portion.">“The very first fans of the original Gundam were young women. Definitely not the PlaModel enthusiasts. With both Gundam and Raideen, of the first fans to be active, 90% were girls. Among a gathering of 1000 fans, about 100 were boys. Around when the first cour ended, young women began to gather to the after recording studio. It took until much later for male fans make an uproar, around the time series got canceled. I thought: You’re late to the party!”>"When the movies were screening, we had many male fans who got into Gundam via Gunpla come to see it. Meanwhile, the girls who had been fans since the TV series aired got together to create their own world via fanzines. The fans, never interacting with each other, existed on separate planes." Women hold up half the sky as usual.
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