Hm, wasn't there already a Vexillology thread on /hobby/? Maybe it could be moved here
I am making an anarchist Poland concept >>1514
If you want you can make a better one because I couldn't think of a perfect anarchist Polish flag
So I modified the Polish Congress flag and added some anarchist/socialist symbolism
This is the flag Daniel Shay flew right?
There's also the Bucks of America flag, which was originally designed to honor black patriots who fought in the Revolutionary War. I thought this was interesting because it offers a template similar to the, "let's put socialist heraldry on everything" kind of designs that left-wing vexillologists love to make so much. This led me down another rabbit hole:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_armorial_of_U.S._states_from_1876https://archive.org/details/statearmsofunion00lpra
I stumbled upon this book published in 1876 titled, "State Arms of the Union"—it contains high quality reproductions of US state coat of arms. Another thing that surprised me is that we used to have these. Some of the symbolism used in them can actually be found in our contemporary state seals; hell, some have barely changed at all (as is the case with Missouri)!
But what I found really
interesting about these coat of arms is just how many used picture frames in their designs; I haven't looked for examples of this elsewhere yet, but it seems like a uniquely American phenomenon. When we hear 'coat of arms' we usually think of European royalty: shields, crowns, mantles, etc. But here, it's like you're looking through a window into another world, full of opportunity; I feel like I could jump through like it's Mario 64.
Fascinating how in presenting the American Dream imagery it's also representing it as an image. You are not meant to fall in love with the real place or even a mere representation of the place. It is the representation of the representation. As if you are supposed to be aware on a subconscious level of the fictitiousness of the object of fascination. In a similar way to how Americans pledge allegiance to the flag
and the "republic for which it stands
" there is a fixation on worship of representation of something abstract. Not merely a representation nor an abstract idea, but rather specifically a symbolic representation of the abstract ideal. It's a meta-worship, a worship of symoblism itself. The act of representing is ritualized and sanctified. American "civil religion" is the worship of abstraction itself, the idea that a nation can be built on an idea. It is the highest stage of idealism.
>>1676>what a socialist American flag could look like
either a blue canton with blue stars or all red with gold stars
>>1682>The act of representing is ritualized and sanctified. American "civil religion" is the worship of abstraction itself, the idea that a nation can be built on an idea. It is the highest stage of idealism.
Yeah I don't know if it's possible for socialists to adopt this design motif while still holding on to a materialist conception of history. I think it'd be cool if they somehow could though. You see what I mean? >>1685>either a blue canton with blue stars
>>1687>Yeah I don't know if it's possible for socialists to adopt this design motif while still holding on to a materialist conception of history. I think it'd be cool if they somehow could though. You see what I mean?
Make the picture extend beyond the frame, either in front or behind it. That way you are implying that the frame is important but it does not contain what you are representing. In fact, you are now representing the relationship between the thing and its representation and the fact that your representation does not
encapsulate the thing.
Isn't there a typo on that first pic?
So you're saying that I screwed up the flag??
There is no reason to thank me
>The Battalion of Death (Battalion Malatesta) was an Italian anarchist unit during the Spanish Civil War. The battalion was formed by a few hundred Italian anarchist exiles in France. It was organized and funded by Diego Abad de Santillan and commanded by the Italian Camillo Berneri.
>Late March 1937, the battalion made its debut parading through the Paseo de Gracia and the Plaza Catalunya in Barcelona wearing their smart uniforms and brandishing the slogan “without God nor master”. It made quite an impression on the audience.
>They wore black turtleneck jerseys, olive-green uniforms with ammunition belts and a black beret with a skull and a dagger badge. The battalion consisted of both men and women.
You made the flag of the Paris commune
If you want kown more about this ideology
Read this https://archive.org/details/RedneckRevolution>>Credits to the original creator kown as shay
, because this ideology isn't my idea its shay's idea
I'm not a vexillology expert, but I really like this.
Two of the biggest problems I've noticed with vexillology - especially communist vexillology - is a) a constant re-use of past symbols and b) a fetishisation of simplicity. The first point is hard to navigate. Recall that the hammer and sickle was a reflection of the main base of the Bolshevik party, the combination of the peasants and the workers. There are benefits to re-using this symbol (and others), namely upholding and respecting the sacrifices and struggles of the past. However, many other questions arise. What symbols would represent the working class today? How would it reflect their history in the particular area that's being represented by the flag? Does it encapsulate or at least acknowledge other histories, like that of minority or indigenous groups? Is it aesthetically appealing? And so on.
The second point is a problem that can be easily solved by breaking free of a particular mindset that flags, above all, must be simple. So it goes that: "The flag should be so simple that a child can draw it from memory." But why? Do we think so little of children that we do not think that they can't like something that is complex? Do have to reduce ourselves to the design equivalent of baby voice? Of course, simplicity can look good, and it can provide more than adequate symbolism which can encapsulate cultures that have been around for generations. However, it shouldn't be a commandment nor a priority of flag design. Above all, flags should not be simple, but aesthetically appealing. Of course flags can be both, but expanding the category of what a flag must be would do some good.
I already know this because I'm a vexillologist but I do sometimes I break some of the rules just for aesthetics
What is program you guys use to make these?
i'm not him but I use GIMP and/or Inkscape
>>1811>"The flag should be so simple that a child can draw it from memory." But why?
Easier to recognize, reproduce and spread.
Blue canton with white stars
Sorry just remembered I made that post
I used MSpaint :(
look I'm trying to learn Gimp etc., but I'm mostly just talentless so knocking something out in paint is about as far as I can go current.
Thank you for cleaning it up though, looks miuch clearer and tighter.
I've used too many colours perhaps, but it's a crappy fusion of Australia's flag, the eureka, and Aboriginal and PNG schemes.
The problem i reckon is just with the yellow, and I've noticed this with other modifications of the aboriginal flag as well. Its an ugly yellow that clashes with the colours that surround it. Just removing it you can maintain the symbolism while making things more balanced i think.
I cleaned the flag up in InkScape which isn't as intuitive as GIMP but because it's vector based you get cleaner images. I'm talentless as well, the only way I've learnt is by dicking around for a few hours and looking at youtube videos.
There are other Australian flags which might be of use to you if you need some inspo.
Very nice try >>1859>>1861
Looks pretty OK I would give it about a 7 out of 10
Thanks comrade for ur words of encouragement and cool flags :')
>>1864>Looks pretty OK I would give it about a 7 out of 10
Please learn how to use vector graphics software. Inkscape should still be free, right? I've always used pirated copies of Adobe Illustrator.
I should clarify that the other flags I posted are not mine, but are flags found in Australia (historically or otherwise)
First flag: Adnyamathanha flaghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnyamathanha
Second flag: Ngarrindjeri Nation Flaghttps://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/au-ngarr.html
Third flag: Spear flag flown at the Aboriginal tent embassy https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/au-ab.html#72ab
Fourth Flag: Monster meeting flaghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4QOMv18ACM
The white should be yellow
Represents the yellow of the indigenous flag.
>>1878>it represents a color on a flag
lmao if you can't describe the symbolism of the yellow in the indigenous Australian flag, it's clearly not important to you.
I like the red earth and bright stars in a black sky. Too much colour just makes it clash.
it clearly represents the sun
the star at the center of the cross could be yellow
I would very well agree
yes. these ones splintered off cuz they didn't like the original PCR-RCP's (now dissolved) line on transphobia and possibly just general internal drama
you can try to decipher it here:https://www.iskra-pcr-rcp.ca/en/2018/07/30/we-are-the-continuators/
(response from central committee)
I like the waves a lot
just saw these on leftistvexillology really like them
Sorry for the month-late reply,>Make the picture extend beyond the frame, either in front or behind it.
I guess that's the key difference between these and their 20th century counterparts. With the Romanian example, an idyllic representation is already being framed (by the wheat, ribbon and star
), not just with a literal picture frame. What if I put tools inside of the frame like some of the more abstract examples I posted here >>1681
— maybe it'd come across as something more GDR-like?
I actually like those flags
It's got a vibe to it, but scares people off
for anyone who gives a shit about r/leftistvexillology, a prominent mod and anarchist unintentionally exposed themselves for essentially collaborating with fascists through working with lib jannies at r/rightistvexilollogy (or whatever the fuck the subs called)>>1921
i made this redesign awhile back that retains all the elements from the ACP logo
hmmm I do like it better
Maybe sickle to the otherside of hammer so it gets the juche vibe
I like it but I admit at first glance I thought the flag was an axe/fasces lmao
One of the mods of r/rightistvexillology frequently posts there; this is unsurprising. Keep in mind that the only reason for r/leftistvexillology's existence is because the mods of r/leftvexillology (the original subreddit) banned all Rojava and Rojava-inspired flags many years ago.
Also I don't like it; if you're gonna put a flag on a flag then it better be in the form of a seal or emblem.
Yeah that's because I did it with vector art. Basically you use functions instead of pixels to draw stuff, but note that the softwares are intuitive, it's basically a complex version of paint: you don't have to input the math because the computer does that for you. What you can do is draw forms, fiddling with their properties trough windows etc. So even though this file is a "rasterized" png it looks clean, and if I could post a .svg file of this you could zoom toward infinity without finding any pixel.
I find this super cool and I think I'm gonna try to do clean symbols for leftypol. The "welcome to leftypol" one would benefit from some polishing.
That's pretty cool fren
wow forster flag is super cool
By the way there's supposed to 7 bars on the other side, because 13; but let's just forget that lol.
why couldn't this be post 1776 lol
anyway a socialist american flag would be Mt Rushmore with. John Brown, Harriet Tubman, Eugene Debs, Fred Hampton
imo don't put people's faces on flags, it's cringe and goes to far into hero worship
I should have said individualism, I suppose
Why is a flag 'post 1776' a necessary precondition for Americans to use it? Hell, there were reproductions of the Bedford flag being flown by maggots on Jan 6. The Forster flag was apparently used in Shay's Rebellion >>1678
but I haven't found much evidence to support that.>>2415
Yeah and plus Mount Rushrmore ought to be destroyed; same goes for the relief on Stone Mountain.
looks very cool
would love to see an english text version
>>2425>would love to see an english text version
I don't know how to do that :(
wtf is this supposed to be
They need to add svg support to this board.
oof I'm just realizing the layers are slightly off in each; before anyone asks I don't remember what the "L" stands for either
kriss vector is absolutely a meme gun but it looks cool
prolly lesbian army faction or something
Fucking sad if true
These are so beautiful
I really like this one.
why are you crying anon
why wouldn't he cry
DESIGN A FLAG FOR A SOCIALIST MOVEMENT, THAT NORMALFAGS WONT RECOGNIZE. NO HISTORICAL REFERENCES, NO HAMMERS OR SICKLES, NO RED.
Please tell me youre not one of these people that think commies just need to "rebrand", as if Republicans didnt call Obama a Communist
yes mlord this isnt just a fun prommpt its a secret entryist operation
i woiuld kill under this banner
Following the tips and suggestions of the based anons there, I should add.
I prefer the one in the center. Good job, anon.
Glad you like it comrade!
Nice! I prefer the 3rd pic.
What software did you use to make these? Inkscape?
In the 2nd pic, make the star a solid red
yup, though I admit I got super lazy with the second one and just used gimp to quickly switch the sleeve colors so that it looked better on the red background
Tried to style it as an emblem, though now it looks a little crowded compared to the simple and easily recognizable design from before, and the difference in detail between the arms and the rest of the emblem makes it look a little odd.
I'm also not sure how to incorporate the cloud motif into the simple design, but oh well. I'm trying to "close off" the design to see if I can make it a patch.
Ended up going with this, lemme know what y'all think
Though now that I look at it, it looks like a fucking football team logo LMAO
Also I somehow managed to pick the ugliest font possible trying to pick something that isn't Arial, how tf do people pick fonts that look right?
I think they look really good. Your idea to turn it into an arm patch is great as well.>how tf do people pick fonts that look right?
On my part, I just try them all until I get something that I find satisfactory. If you don't find something satisfactory, you can always find fonts online I guess.
Also, how did you do the wheat and the banner with text on >>2800's 1st pic? I'd love to do something similar for a flag or an emblem which I might post here.
>>2802>Also, how did you do the wheat and the banner
to be completely honest with you, I just looked up "heraldry laurel" and "heraldry motto" and picked some images to quickly vectorize with Inkscape's "trace bitmap" feature to see what they would look like on the design lmao. In this case I thought they crowded it a bit too much and didn't think looked right, but if I found them to look good I would probably manually do the designs, you can make the laurel by vectorizing the leaf and then repeating it along a path, though the banner is a bit more tricky since you'd need to draw it yourself and make it symmetrical.>On my part, I just try them all until I get something that I find satisfactory. If you don't find something satisfactory, you can always find fonts online I guess.
Yeah I guess that makes sense, I just quickly scrolled through the fonts I have installed and just picked what looked the most in line with the rest of the design. I don't have the patience to look for the right font online, and I have exactly zero knowledge of typography so I have a bit of a hard time even distinguishing between the fonts lol. I'll see what I can do though, if I decide to turn this into a patch I'll probably look for a font that looks a little better and that also looks readable at the size I'm looking for.
I like it! Cogwheel and laurel look great.
If I were to make a critique, the lack of contrast between the background and the green stripe at the bottom make is look a little hard to distinguish (posted the grayscale so you can better see what I mean). Made the stripe a little brighter which, although a small chance, makes a big difference imo
Here's some progress I made. I followed your advice and made the green stripe a bit lighter. I experimented a bit and tried to make a pattern that looks a bit more like wheat, which one looks better according to you? As a bonus, here's also my attempt to make a military shoulder patch of this emblem, similar to Soviet Army ones.
For the record, "СФРМ" is for "Союз Республик Федералных Механистов", Russian for "Federal Union of Mecanist Republics". Well, I don't know if that name sounds good in Russian, I just picked something that has the same vibe as the English one. If any Russian-speaking anon could suggest a better name, feel free to do so!
In fact, if anyone has a better English name for it, just tell me ^^
I like em, first and third one look the best in my opinion, military patch also looks really neat. I like the little pentagon on top more than just the star. Though one issue you run into when designing flags is you want them to be instantly recognizable from a distance, so while you might notice the wreath of wheat by zooming in, from a distance or zoomed out it's really hard to make it out since the wheat kernels are so small. Picked some quick design examples to see what I think would look good and make it easier to distinguish and fit with the geometric style you're going for, though you shouldn't be too afraid of playing around with shapes and see what sticks.
Also, and this is less a design suggestion and more of a personal opinion, I feel like playing around with colors is half the fun of designing stuff sometimes, so you shouldn't be wary of using colors that pop out more. I like the subtle shade you chose for the background, but if all the colors on the flag are desaturated you run the risk of the eye completely glossing of the flag whereas flags are usually made to be eyecatching, not to mention that realistically desaturated and darker colors are harder to do on a flag. Just a thought though. I like the way you're going with your fictional universe though, worldbuilding is fun as fuck and honestly when I have the time, I'm probably also gonna put the ideas I have knocking around in my noggin on paper to see what comes out.
Does WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE! YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT YOUR CHAINS!
or the star count as historical references?
Here's the cursed UN flag, made in 10 minutes lmao
So, basically, I shouldn't be afraid of using brighter colors is what you're suggesting? I see. I usually prefer dark colors, which is why the flag of the Mecanist Union started off with a very dark green stripe.
Thank you for your support regarding worldbuilding! I have a bunch of ideas regarding this one, is there a thread about worldbuilding? Furthermore, this thread is also about maps, but I don't know how to make one (well, a pretty one). I hope I'll figure out how to!
Also, some more stuff. <another version of the Mecanist flag (hopefully the wheat is a bit easier to identify from afar, plus more saturated stripe)<an improved Mecanist military patch with the new logo design<the flag of this universe's analogue of the USA (it's an old design, maybe I should find something better? Also, funky colors and look)<the flag of a mysterious organization that calls itself… well, the Organization. Their origins and exact goals are unknown but they are obviously evil omnicidal maniacs, hence the Nazi colors and edgy, evil-looking emblem
I might post more later. If I figure out how to, I might try to add… draping? I mean the kind of cloth you find on the wheat like in your 3rd pic. Or even better looking wheat? I'm not very good at small details.
Nice job, they look great. I especially like the faux-America flag, looks like a real flag you would see in history, not to mention the colors you picked for it look really really good together.>is there a thread about worldbuilding?
Not to my knowledge, there's a writing one and a bunch of art ones. It'd be a pretty uneventful thread given that worldbuilding is pretty niche, and even then it's usually tied to a bigger project like a book or a game rather than worldbuilding for fun
this is pretty cool and palatable
would make a great patch
Gotta be embroidered, not not transfered though.
>flags, above all, must be simple>But why?
to quote Chairman Mao<Where do correct ideas come from? Do they drop from the skies? No. Are they innate in the mind? No. They come from social practice, and from it alone; they come from three kinds of social practice, the struggle for production, the class struggle and scientific experiment.https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-9/mswv9_01.htm
This Idea also didn't drop from the skies but derives from the practical purpose of flags i.e. warfare. The main practical purposes of flags and standards in warfare are
1. Identification - who is friend? who is foe?
2. Orientation - from a soldiers perspective: where is my commander? In which direction am I supposed to go? from the perspective of a commander: where are my troops? where are there going?
3. Communication - lowering the flag indicates giving up a position, raising the flag taking one.
There is a reason why for example in the American civil war the flag bearer was always the one leading a charge, it was cause this is a simple and effective way to let the soldiers exactly know in which direction to charge.
Getting your flag knocked down is not just a disgrace to the honor of the particular unit and the troop as whole but also a serious military disadvantage leaving your soldiers disoriented and confused leaving them to be an easy target for the enemy.
If you keep these things in mind the reason why flags should be simple and easily distinguishable become obvious.
If flags are to complex it's harder to identify them on the battlefield especially at a distance which could lead to serious mistakes on side of both commanders and soldiers. Be it soldiers which fell behind being unable to find their units during the Battle or the commander or a messenger mistakes unit X for unit Y and give them the orders meant for unit Y which could lead to high causalities and eventually defeat.
The consequences of mistaking the enemy for your own troops or the other way around should be even more obvious.
Just imagine a new American civil war fought with the current US state flags.
Bad flag design kills.
As for communist vexillology re-using the same colors and symbols over and over again:
this serves the first practical purpose of flags and standards in warfare Identification, especially in a civil war scenario not uncommon in revolutionary communist history.
Volunteers of communist militia A will think twice before opening fire on communist militia B if communist militia B waves a red flag and the other way around even if these militias have no ties at all or don't even know of each other.
Simplicity doesn't always nor necessarily mean that flags are easy to distinguish - try distinguishing between an Chad and Romanian flag, a Indonesian and Monaco flag, and the flags of Luxembourg and the Netherlands. Simplicity is a second-rate characteristic of flags, flags can be complicated and easy to distinguish.
In modern civil wars this is flourishing - a lot of the niche battalions and brigades on the Russian and Ukrainian sides have chosen flags with complicated designs to fight under.
he's deeply wrong about california and colorado btw. I don't know what it is about NAVA's design codes that makes these people treat them like written gospel. there's something to be said about the eurocentrism implied there too, especially with the 'no lettering' rule. maybe I should give the actual pamphlet a read again sometime (it's been forever); here it is for those curious: https://nava.org/good-flag-bad-flag
What with this and Utah, I feel like every modern vexillologist thinks more about how their flag would work as branding on a screen instead of an actual flag in the wind
A good flag should be easily adaptable to many brand formats, to be honest. I'm sure if you visited a tourist shop in California, Arizona or New Mexico, their flags would be on everything. I know for a fact it's the case with cities like St Louis, Chicago. and DC though. Utah has always been big on the beehive imagery due to its significance in Mormonism, which, hmm..
Skinny; fat star would look better if the sun were also fat.
I love the fat star one in particular but both look good. Different vibes tho imo: the skinny star looks more militaristic or austere or sinister to me, the fat star looks more friendly and lively and protagonistic to me. I think the fat star type is much rarer in vexillology than the first type. As far as irl examples I think star number 1 has been used in both soviet and american symbology. Star number 2 brings to mind the Chinese communist partisans old symbology and south american revolutionaries like the shining path
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