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File: 1634745931933.png (103.6 KB, 500x544, ClipboardImage.png)

 No.13127

of course most /pol/tards side with caser's legion but looking at it almost every single faction is awful one way or the other, The NCR is literally a reboot of America that is in the middle of a manifest destiny, House is a egotistical maniac and probably appeals to Musk bros and Yes man is just a libertarian wet dream

 No.13128

I'm not counting Yes Man cuz it's just a wildcard utopia. Mr House would probably be the best choice for a marxist due to the centralization of power, resources and mop in and near Vegas which would be good once revolution hits (see Marx on monopolies)

 No.13129

I choose not playing overhyped, overrated meme games that are only popular because they managed to appeal to 12yo "deep thinkers" by pandering to their meme political ideologies. I only play games made to appeal to 16 year old hyperonline political radicals and that is why I am off to do another TNO run as IRA Ireland.

 No.13131

>>13128
>Mr House would probably be the best choice for a marxist due to the centralization of power
except he literally states he doesn't care what others are doing as long as they don't interfere with his aims

 No.13132

File: 1634752077540.jpg (2.88 MB, 3009x1272, Fallout-NV.jpg)

>>13128
Independent ending is dystopian, the player becomes tyrant of New Vegas with total control of the city including: electricity production, the Securitron army (the ultimate repressive apparatus), food production, and water production. I see it as the analogue to the House ending, in both New Vegas ends up under domination by a Pisistratus-like enlightened tyranny.
>Mr House would probably be the best choice for a marxist due to the centralization of power, resources and mop in and near Vegas
House just doesn't have the workforce. His speech about sending out colony ships in 100 years is pure hubris and marketing. The NCR, unlike House's New Vegas, actually has the features that are common in real capitalist societies: a large workforce, a state apparatus, a legal system, organized healthcare, social welfare, i.e., the elements that have historically proven to be useful for capitalist production. Look at the NCR's activity in New Vegas, they have actively built up the productive forces around the city of Vegas, they greatly expanded agriculture, introduced freshwater irrigation, repaired Hoover Dam, created trade networks, constructed railroads, and provided food aid to the residents of Freeside; all of which are independently more substantive than all of House's actions combined, with respect to the development of an industrial capitalist economy. Go with the NCR ending if you want to see Victorian England 2.0 and potentially social revolution.

 No.13136

The real right choice is unfortunately not an option in the game unfortunately. It would be to travel the Mojave fighting off all the above factions and knitting together the various communities into a larger, singular entity. The region has a ton of extremely useful resources when pooled together (The Hoover Dam, the Boomers' artillery, the rocket factory, the remnants of varous vaults, New Vegas, etc). There's a golden opportunity here to unite the Mojave as its own nation that could outdo any of the foreign powers contending for the region. This is, however, a very ambitious project that would require a huge amount of work and banding together a large number of allies. Given what is possible in the games story, though, certain versions of the Courier should be up to the task. There are enough people in the setting who could fit into the needed leadership roles for a project like that, some of them being follower NPCs. It would also be a much more interesting questline than simply recruiting the various factions for somebody else. The groundwork is already laid in that respect, so it probably wouldn't have been too hard to implement this as one of the quest options (maybe even what Yes Man was originally going to be). The game is pretty famously rushed though, so a huge amount of content had to be cut in the end. It's quite good as it is, but could have been even bigger/better. Yes Man does suggest that the developers understood that history isn't simple multiple choice, but it's a shame they couldn't have implemented that side of things better.

>>13132
>The NCR, unlike House's New Vegas, actually has the features that are common in real capitalist societies:
And these are things that the Courier could bring to bear relying only on everyone and everything already in the region
>a large workforce,
For a desert wasteland the Mojave is pretty populated, but more notably it has a number of abandoned factories that could (and should) be salvaged.
>a state apparatus,
This is the most tricky part, and would probably work best with a system like democratic confederalism given how dispersed people are and how much the different micronations vary. Something that provides more structure than nothing but isn't as repressive as Caesar or the NCR would probably be pretty popular. There are already plenty of people with guns or even with experience in the existing factions who could be put to use establishing political power.
>a legal system,
That's not especially hard to set up, considering there are already existing models to work from. And given how dispersed the population is, there would probably need to be a lot of room for the local communities to handle things according to their rules. Some of the factions already have reasonably well established legal and political systems. Having some kind of constitutional convention and bringing people from each community to the table would need to be part of it.
>organized healthcare,
The Followers of the Apocalypse and scattered doctors/medics have enough expertise to handle this if they just had the resources but nobody wants to pay for that. Not really difficult to solve. This would probably be one of the biggest draws for people since health care is so lacking.
>social welfare,
Well there's enough vacant housing to supply that, Vegas has plenty of food growing, healthcare I covered, and in terms of other aid, Vegas is constantly colleting huge sums of money so it's not hard to take some of that and put it into social welfare if there is the political will to do that. But with House's securitron army and the support of the people it would not be hard to roll over the mobsters running Vegas (including the NCR) and appropriate all those facilities for the public.
>i.e., the elements that have historically proven to be useful for capitalist production.
Don't forget the capital part, and there's plenty of that lying around not being put to use yet.

 No.13142

>>13136
It appears that you don't understand the level of social development in the Mojave Wasteland. All of the social groups in the Mojave must be interpreted as tribes; even if some have access to high technology. New Vegas itself is not a polity, there is no “public”, it’s a territory populated by many distinct and segregated groups of people with distinct modes of social organization, ranging from family households to large tribes. The largest three tribes are called the Three Families, and these control the Strip through the casinos, large commercial enterprises that depend on a transient population to be profitable. Robert House is a power broker and not a political leader, he can only exercise coercive control with his Securitron army, and he isn’t in command of any particular social group. Nearly all of the groups living in the territory of New Vegas are in extreme destitution, and have a low level of social and political development as a result. It’s likely that the majority of the residents of New Vegas are illiterate. These groups are too loosely organized to be capable of uniting and forming a community without an external force, and both the Courier and House are internal forces (The Courier themselves may be external, but the real controlling force is the Securitron army). Both the Legion and NCR are external forces, and only the NCR is going to develop and grow the territory. The NCR is the progressive Bonapartist, arriving to impose citizenship, a legal code, and a political existence on the residents of New Vegas. Realistically, the Courier is not capable of being as equal a modernizer as the NCR; coercion is a limiting mechanism of action. The NCR is the most progressive option.
>This is, however, a very ambitious project that would require a huge amount of work and banding together a large number of allies.
>There are enough people in the setting who could fit into the needed leadership roles for a project like that, some of them being follower NPCs.
>The groundwork is already laid in that respect, so it probably wouldn't have been too hard to implement this as one of the quest options.
The Courier is able to recruit different tribes as a favor or by convincing them that it is in their self-interest, but this does not bring the tribes any closer to forming a community. The speculative storyline in which the Courier unites the tribes is impossible under the circumstances of the Mojave, neither House nor the Courier have the agency to coerce or convince these groups that it’s more in their interest to dissolve and form a community in a desert under the auspices of a tyrant instead of joining either the Legion or the NCR.
>There's a golden opportunity here to unite the Mojave as its own nation that could outdo any of the foreign powers contending for the region.
The groups that the Courier tries to recruit in-game are the barriers to this kind of political organization. They are armed gangs, and each can be ignored, allied with, driven out of the Mojave, or destroyed in all endings. They can only be absorbed in the NCR endings, and it’s heavily implied that they will be absorbed by the either NCR or the Legion after the independent ending. For example, this text from the ending slide that appears if Veronica stays with the Brotherhood and the Courier has not destroyed the Brotherhood bunker, completed the Independent questline, and didn’t form a truce between the BoS and the NCR:
>Veronica put her moral sensibilities aside and supported the Brotherhood's new campaign of aggression as best she could. Yet deep down, she understood that it meant their end would surely be soon to follow.
The implication is that the BoS, by taking HELIOS One, will eventually be targeted and destroyed by either the Legion or the NCR. Endings like these put in perspective the relative scale of the social forces that the developers of the game were imagining; New Vegas is much smaller, more isolated and highly fragmented than either the NCR or Caesar’s Legion. Even with the Securitron army, it doesn’t have the ability to defend itself from Vertibirds and artillery. If it did have the firepower, there isn’t a cohesive population that can be drawn from to create a military, and the Securitrons are a limited resource, capable of controlling a relatively small territory.

As I said in my last post, the NCR is the only group which is actively building up the productive forces and developing the infrastructure required for industrialization, the further development of the productive forces. The NCR has already gained the favor of many residents in the Mojave through their activity, by introducing employment, electricity, agriculture, social welfare, etc. The NCR are already an industrial society to an extent, capable of producing cement, clothing, tools, weapons, armor, of constructing railroads and brick buildings. That level of development is why it’s the “best choice for a marxist”, and the most capable option for producing the social classes and material conditions required for a communist revolution.

 No.13153

Raider Alliance

i couldn't give half a shit about what is "better for the wasteland"
i just want post-civ anarcho-pantheist commune alliances
the followers of the apocalypse are more than welcome to work in our occupied clinics
every single securitron will be destroyed, except yesman he'll be painted and stored in my barracks
i'll start my own tribe adjacent to the black vultures but more focused on christianity rather than islam
we still worship "madre" tho
Fiends are also welcome as long as they stop raping people
Cannibalism is still allowed tho.

 No.13156

>>13153
>except yesman he'll be painted and stored in my barracks
anon, please don't turn yesman into a fuckbot

 No.13157

I just want to rp as Ulysses

 No.13163

Wait what's wrong with the Brotherhood of Steel? I thought they were the good guys in Fallout Verse to the extent that any side could be classifies as having more humanitarian impulses than others. Wasn't Fallout 3 just helping BoS find a cure or something?

 No.13164

>>13163
Fallout 3 BoS were highly abnormal, in the other games they're mostly just assholes that hoard technology for themselves and attack other people who have it. The Eastern Brotherhood chapter basically was just like 'hey fuck it, why don't we actually help people'.

 No.13165

File: 1634813507480.png (584.03 KB, 948x879, Fo3OA_Chinese_Rifleman.png)

>>13127
Yes Man is just whatever you want. You can become Chairman of the People's Republic of the Mojave with a council of Followers under you, leading an alliance of the surrounding towns bolstered by your Securitrons. Then you can either be a Dengoid and let the Strip continue to operate or just turn it into some kind of Pitt-esque industrial center.
The game gives you ample opportunity to ensure that neither the Legion nor the NCR ever fuck with the Mojave again. With both Caesar and the Legate dead, they'll just turn into a bunch of raider bands/successor states within years. Then, of course, you have the opportunity to bump off the executive and the military leadership, leaving the NCR scrambling to recover for years if both Kimball and the general are dead.
>>13132
>>13142
You're forgetting the fact that Vegas has an enormous population in the form of unorganized slum-dwellers in Freeside, as well as already-organized communities in Westside with their own co-op farming and militia and sheit. Just tear down some junkie dens, put the degenerate Freesiders into re-education camps and turn the bombed-out buildings into workshops, bunkhouses, schools, everything a society needs. Once they're raised above subsistence level, the residents can be an ample labor force. Westside can serve as the "model city" for the Vegas region, you can reclaim the entire ruins and extend the Strip's walls little by little. The Followers will serve as an educational cadre and provide technical know-how for infrastructure like they do with the water pump and those two guys you get off of drugs.
With the power from Hoover Dam, the clean water from Lake Mead, all the minor groups like Fiends already cleared out by the courier, and every amenable group and Vegas citizen organized into militias, you can form a good core around which to ally the surrounding towns.
Goodsprings, the quarry, Novac, Boulder City, Jacobstown, and Primm aren't raider factions, they're all sedentary towns with an interest in mutual security and stable trade. And without the NCR around to provide structure, they'll be looking for something to replace it.
And you'd be surprised how easily the tribal/raider factions are pacified or their members siphoned off to more productive pursuits. After all, House did it with the three families, Caesar formed the Legion out of absolute barbarians, and the Kings are fine providing security.

 No.13166

>>13165
Based. Too bad you don't see much of the Chinese.

 No.13167

>>13163
the Fo3 Brotherhood are the typical hollywood american good guys,all the other are assholes that rush down and brutally murder everybody that find any old war tech to hoard it,with a massive emphasis on their "family" that is slowly dying.
even in Fo4 they're cunts,so it's not just the fault of bethesda writing,they're just an anomaly,and they actually got basically excommuniated because Elder Lyons refused an order,so they have to interact with the "savages" to stay alive instead of waiting for outside help.
>>13165
Not sure you could really convince the Followers to become teachers,I think their motto is mostly to wander around the Wasteland helping random people (including cannibals because muh hippocratic oath) but I can pretty much see what you're going to answer me to that one.

 No.13168

File: 1634814670754.png (30.17 MB, 3556x5462, ClipboardImage.png)

>>13136
> All of the social groups in the Mojave must be interpreted as tribes; even if some have access to high technology. New Vegas itself is not a polity, there is no “public”, it’s a territory populated by many distinct and segregated groups of people with distinct modes of social organization, ranging from family households to large tribes. The largest three tribes are called the Three Families, and these control the Strip through the casinos, large commercial enterprises that depend on a transient population to be profitable. Robert House is a power broker and not a political leader, he can only exercise coercive control with his Securitron army, and he isn’t in command of any particular social group. Nearly all of the groups living in the territory of New Vegas are in extreme destitution, and have a low level of social and political development as a result. It’s likely that the majority of the residents of New Vegas are illiterate
True, for all of House's talk about how "ridiculous" Caesar's legion was for playing Romans he was equally if not more ridiculous for getting a bunch of unwashed tribal savages to LARP as figures from his contemporary era
the white gloves society especially, they were cave dwelling cannibal savages that Mr. House had playing as high class socialites

 No.13169

>>13167
The Followers as a whole move around the wasteland, but the chapter in the Mormon fort is pretty much there to stay, and must have been there for years when the game starts.
They've already done a considerable amount of work around Vegas. They set up the water pump in Freeside, and in addition to performing medical services, you can convince them to make medicinal alcohol.
Did you go to Westside in the game? The Followers helped them set up a way to use the irrigation system to water their own co-op farm that makes a ton of produce and the town is relatively thriving, independent, and has its own militia.
All you have to do is give them permission to keep using the fort, and all they have to do is realize that helping you is the best way they can turn the Mojave into a developed region where people don't starve or die of simple diseases. House didn't give a shit about them, the NCR just let them do their thing. Now they get to be in on the ground floor of a new state in the wasteland, which comes with influence and respect. And probably resources, not to mention the continued safety of their fort as a base of operations in the east.
I don't mean schoolteachers, by the way, I mean using their expertise to educate a class of people who can lead the development of the Mojave. Basically what they did with Westside but on a larger scale.

 No.13170

>>13166
we do see some,the ones in fallout 2 basically established San Fransisco as a research and knowledge center,which is pretty big
In the third game,it's mostly crazed military ghouls that shoot on sight.
There is no chinese presence in the Mojave.
and we have Captain Zhao in 4 as the only chinese character that you can interact with,a ghoul that lost his entire submarine crew because they became feral,and that just wants to go back to China.
There is probably more US presence in China than Chinese in the US tbh,because Beijin was nearly taken,Shanghai was taken,and Nanjing was occupied for some time.
I don't think it would be that hard to make a game set in Mainland China honestly (even playing as a American if Bethesda really wanted that),even if it would be a lot of blank to fill.
>>13169
yeah that makes sense,I forgot about the fort.

 No.13176

Hear me out, I think the Legion might actually have some benefits(this isn't what you think it is) I think the Roman LARP fantasy of the Legion is a means to an end
Caesar was an academic who get lucky by getting the favor of a bunch of uneducated tribals and it snowballed from there. he leads a cult of personality over uneducated savages and uses the "Caesar" persona to keep them in check, he doesn't seem to respect any of his Legionaries and views them as tools for his political aims

when Caesar meets the Courier it legitimately feels like he's having an enjoyable and open conversation after decades of speaking with illiterate tribals, also to note if Arcade is sold to him as a slave, he is so amused by him and legitimately mourns him after he commits suicide. even though Arcade furiously rejects everything Caesar believes in constantly throughout the game, he'd still want someone to have an intelligent conversation with
I think Caesar planned to reconstruct the Legion after taking Vegas, he says so himself
>That's right. Decades of warfare, absorbing lesser tribes, gathering power. Forging the dross into a vast, razor-sharp scythe, We have cities of our own, but nothing compared to Vegas. Finally, my Legion will have its Rome,
>The NCR council will be eradicated, but the new synthesis will change the Legion as well from a basically nomadic army to a standing military force that protects its citizens, and the power of its dictator.

I think he planned after acquiring actual educated citizens and state structures, he planed to phase out the roman LARP and integrate his tribal Legionaries into a more civilized state

 No.13194

>>13156

what? no i'll just into a TV or something like that

fisto is the only fuckbot anyone needs

 No.13197

>>13170
>In the third game,it's mostly crazed military ghouls that shoot on sigh
Any mods that makes them not shoot you on sight?

 No.13198

>>13170
How come the USA shot the nukes first (basically confirmed by this point) if they were invading China already?

 No.13199

>>13198
cuz aliens

no im not jk its a possible reason if you check the lore videos

 No.13200

>>13199
>cuz aliens

That's retarded

 No.13201

>>13199
>no im not jk its a possible reason if you check the lore videos
Is that from lore in 1 and 2 or from Bethesda Fallout?

 No.13203

>>13201
beethesda fallout

 No.13204


 No.13205

>>13201
also some of the lore suggests that vault tech launched some of the nukes
aka a private company caused ww3

 No.13214

>>13198
China shot first according to the ingame terminals (made by Enclave propaganda),there are some "jokes" about mothership Zeta,the film adaptation was supposed to be about vault tech dropping test nukes in the US and kickstarting it by not warning the US military….
The point is to keep it ambiguous on purpose,even if it's pretty obvious it can't be the US itself.
They annexed Canada and were steamrolling the chinese mainland with their power armor.
China didn't even have fusion power at the time,so they probably did the only thing conceivable.
there is also an AI in the second game suggesting his "AI friend" sends them to add to the confusion.
>>13197
no,because they have no dialogue of note,and aren't actual characters,they're just a new flavor of ennemy NPCs and nobody has expanded on it.

 No.13220

File: 1634984819591.jpg (77.59 KB, 400x512, 1573176723271.jpg)

>>13205
>also some of the lore suggests that vault tech launched some of the nukes
Didn't the Fallout Bible (made by the Interplay-Devs as some sort of loose canon) straight-up say that Vault-Tec shot first? And not even as a "test drop" but in a "WE ARE THE FUCKING MASTERS OF AMERICA, WE WILL DESTROY AND REBUILD IT IN OUR IMAGE" sorta way?

On that note, I am really tired of modders always resorting to Enclave fuckery to justify bases, anatagonists ETC. . Enclave this, Enclave that, how hard is it to make a quick cursory glance at the wiki, see what pre-war companies got up to, and have them (or some twisted remnant of such) as some sort of antagonist?

 No.13221

>>13214
>no,because they have no dialogue of note,and aren't actual characters,they're just a new flavor of ennemy NPCs and nobody has expanded on it.
ngl, kinda disappointing

>>13220
>but in a "WE ARE THE FUCKING MASTERS OF AMERICA, WE WILL DESTROY AND REBUILD IT IN OUR IMAGE" sorta way?
Ebin

 No.13237

File: 1635040654882.png (Spoiler Image, 138.27 KB, 310x241, langley ip.png)

>>13220
The Old World Blues mod for HOI4 has what's essentially an Idiocracy cargo cult built around the remnants of Petro-Chico down in Mexico. They have a religion built around quarters and an annual report that's akin to Ragnarok.
I didn't play as them, I just read their thing in the new game menu though.
There's also another raider group that calls itself The Executives, built around the remnants of Vault-Tec. I don't think they have any content yet, though.

And then there's this gem.

 No.13239

>it's hegelian dialectics

 No.13240

>>13239
Lmao that's great

 No.13241


 No.13252

>>13237
>file name
Kek

 No.13253

>>13239
OH NO NO LEGIONBROS WE GOT TOO COCKY

 No.13259


 No.13260

>>13253
>He even has less Charisma too
Fucking kek

 No.13288

>>13237
>pic
Lmao. Is this the end of the Washington BoS path, judging from that guys armor, and their leader being an excommunicated Paladin? Anyway, we totally forgot the Texan Ancaps, which are the first antagonist of the Rio Grande Republic.

>>13253
AVE, TRUE TO SNUFFLES!

 No.13299

>>13239
What complete fucking tool. It's called IMMANENT critique, not imminent.

And the stupid larper has the audacity of saying it not once, nor twice, but THREE FUCKING TIMES.

 No.13319

Dust is a sequel to NV, and you have to deal with the consequences of the courier.
As foreshadowed in the end of the Lonesome Road, tunnlers begin making their way toward vegas, and the humans left in the wake of the courier are powerless to stop them.
More forshadowing in the end of Dead Money, the fog starts spreading across the Mojave and with it, the ghost peoples.
Basically, there is a lot of foreshadowing from all of the DLCs, which makes this mod very interesting to me. It appears a lot of love and care went into it, and it would be a shame for you to not try it out, if you consider yourself a fallout fan.

 No.13320

>>13299
Pretty sure it's a copypasta but people mixing up imminent/immanent will never not be funny to me.

 No.13670

File: 1636717848384.png (1.3 MB, 702x769, ClipboardImage.png)

Fuck the NCR

 No.13711

>>13239
Blessed.

 No.13771

let the NCR have it
they could develop the Strip into more than just a coalition of the Three Families under Mr. House, give the smaller and more peaceful factions a voice, and keep the Legion at bay
i don't think they're anything like the US doing manifest destiny, they're just a bunch of vault survivors that want to keep democracy in the wasteland

 No.13820

>>13771
>they're just a bunch of vault survivors that want to keep democracy in the wasteland
They're capitalists and if their poison is allowed to spread we'll be right back where we started 200 years ago

 No.13823

>>13127
I either go with House or yesman just because we get to kick both the NCR and the legion out.

 No.13833

>>13771
>i don't think they're anything like the US doing manifest destiny, they're just a bunch of vault survivors that want to keep democracy in the wasteland
that's exactly what they are meant to represent though, its like missing the point fight club is a critique of Toxic masculinity

 No.13857

>>13771
>keep """"democracy""""
did you miss out on everything related to the NCR government,the oligarchy,the massive bourgeois controlling the industies in the newly annexed territories ?

 No.13889

>>13820
>>13857
oh no they actually develop the wasteland instead of enslaving ppl or leaving them to a life of kill or be killed

 No.13890

>>13889
capitalism is slavery retard

 No.13927

>>13890
um ok

 No.13930

>>13927
it's actually not okay you massive faggot

 No.13931

>>13889
>they actually develop the wasteland
they don't tho,they're basically engaged in nazy germany tier economics where they constantly expand to get more ressources and market or they die,and they're spreading the NCR army thinner and thinner every year,to the point that a single general ends up in charge of the quarter of a state,and can get BTFO by a band of slavers unless miracle courrier man saves their asses.
It simply isn't sustainable,even if it does look like "glorious capitalism of the past",the point is to show that it's not applicable at such a small scale.

 No.13951

>>13931
>nazy germany tier economics where they constantly expand to get more ressources and market or they die
sooo capitalism?

 No.13953

>>13931
;lets be honest here fallout nv isnt fucking accurate at all
.
like at this point and supposedly in the lore the ncr is supposed to have things like fucking tanks artillary verti birds and etc
and while i can understand supply lines are stretched the fact that none of these show up at new vegas at all is really fucking sus

realistically if they went full lore ncr i dont think the legion would have won

 No.13957

>>13953
iirc they got smashed after what happened at the Divide
also development on New Vegas was really stunted in a lot of ways, the game world is actually way more limited than it could've actually been if bethesda/zenimax hadn't sabotaged obsidian

 No.13958

>>13957
literal only18 months development

18 months

ONLY 18 MONTHS

FUCKING BETHESDA


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