No.23656
>>23655can't be bothered If your going to have to shell out for hundreds of DLC for basic features
No.23657
I think France, try to establish the Paris commune 30 years early.
>>23656Just pirate it then
No.23658
Not enough beard 0/10
No.23659
>>23656This is a big reason I am not particularly hyped for Victoria III release. Chances are its going to take another year for the "full game" to actually come out.
No.23661
>>23656>Buying a Paradox gameLmao, only when they make a complete game.
No.23662
>>23661>lol u cuck>proceeds to cuck out "but less"a tale as old as time
No.23665
We should start calling Karl H. Marx just for the lulz
No.23666
>>23662you have cuckoldry in your head anon.
No.23667
>>23655Since when was Marx ever portrayed with a monocle?
That portrait makes him look like an aristocrat even though he wasn't.
No.23668
>>23667I think his clothing changes depending on the culture he joins as a politician
No.23724
didn't know you could do gommunizm in vic3
No.23726
>>23669Thanks, I'll take it.
No.23727
>>23667Ok guys.
>Pick nation>Invite Karl Marx.>Karl marx has typical attire from nation.Can't wait to see Marx with a fez.
No.23728
>>23669So much effort on such a complicated game and you can turn it into a joke so easily…
Why do people like this genre so much?
No.23730
>>23728You can cheese most games if you want to. I don't find it an issue that you
can break the game if you do X,Y,Z. Usually those ways to play aren't fun at all so it's a non-issue for me as someone who just plays without the goal of 100% optimization.
No.23735
>>23728Vic 2 Jan Mayen is funnier than that,just because you can buy Greenland and Iceland and field polar bear armies and it's a real challenge,instead of having le number go up !!!! and nothing else.
No.23737
>>23728Because war-centric RTS is for boring vanilla faggots.
>>23732Soon, brother.
No.23738
>>23735Vic 2 Jan Mayen playthrough is pretty much the same as for any minor nation. Get Great Power ally, use them to conquer high pop colonies, now you have manpower and economy to sustain army and fleet, expand your colonial empire. Tech up by exploiting the fact only civilized pops count towards literacy. Eventually conquer some civilized provinces to get industry.
No.23740
>>23738yeah,that's true actually,I was thinking of GFM where you can't get a CB unless you have an army in the first place and the AI straight up didn't want to help me,but if Spain/France do the war for you,it litterally doesn't matter.
(could've added cancelling military acces to conquer Johore/Korea with exiled armies etc)
No.23742
can you do a gommunism in victoria 2?
No.23757
>>23742Yes, but unless you play HFM or some other mod there is no flavour to it.
No.23761
Games look ugly + looks like mobile game I'll pass.
No.23763
>>23761I guess the UI is bad but man why you judging a book by it's cover, these days it's basically standard procedure for some modder to fix the rough edges
No.23764
>>23763I'm not a fan of the war system, if the war system was like Victoria 2 I would be able to overlook the ugly graphics. I mostly played Victoria 2 MP and the unit micro/cycle system was the best part, if I was going to get this game it would be mostly for improved MP stability anyway.
No.23766
>>23764What is the new war system like? Vicky II single player combat was trivial because AI doesnt know what its doing, and in MP you had to homebrew rules due to how exploitable it was.
But damn, it the UI looked so pretty, like how hard is it to get some artist to make it more thematic.
No.23767
>>23766War is fun in Victoria 2, that's what I think. I liked the roleplay of naming units and seeing my guys conquer stuff. Victoria 3 war you basically just equip your troops and have the ai decide the fight instead. Why not fix the ai then instead of making a worse system? Also MP rules are pretty standard and easy to follow, basically just don't retreat multi-province and you can't go through neutral nations to fight other players directly.
No.23769
>>23767As far as I am concerned, micromanaging army stacks was the worst part of the game. I mean we already have one paradox series that is entirely about combat, I am fine with developers prioritizing economic and diplomatic aspects. And I guarantee there will be Proper combat system DLC.
No.23770
>>23769Okay. I like to have fun with micro in Victoria 2 and EU4 MP, MP players are the super minority of Victoria 2 so it makes sense we get screwed over SP players. If the corporate heads at paradox decide to make a combat dlc to milk the consumers I'll consider pirating the game. bye.
No.23771
>>23768Didn't the system get more complex though
No.23772
>>23769Then a middle-ground solution like HOI4 where you can automate the war if you want seems much better than what they did, which takes out a big chunk of the affairs of the time period and downplays the amount of warfare which did happen in that period with colonial expansionism just because there were no major wars in Europe at the time. It also takes away player prerogative so your war AI can completely fuck you over and you have no control over it aside from just cheesily stacking mil buildings until you roll over your enemies. Stuff like the small-scale wars to establish arabia and eventually the UAR can't exist in Vicky 3 cause your generals might just lose the war for you.
No.23773
>>23771Already said I'm indifferent about that if the central part of MP has been gutted.
No.23774
>>23772Yeah people have already talked about some middle ground since we found out about the war system.
No.23775
>>23774Imho just wait like a year until they roll out the mandatory DLC that fixes the game and then pirate it.
No.23777
>>23775That's probably what I'll do, I don't really see how MP is going to be interesting in this game on day 1 with how the war system works. I've heard the arguments about the game focusing on diplomacy or economies or whatever, but after a few games that's not interesting at all. The fun part about unit micro in MP is that after every game/war you get better of course, that's how it is in Victoria 2, EU4, HOI4. Like in Victoria 2 MP if people know you have a reputation of kicking ass in war, your diplo, aspirations, and threats are taken seriously.
No.23779
>>23777What does "kicking ass" even mean in context of Victoria 2? Its combat has no dept. In my experience MP combat is about lucking out on best general at the beginning, and pure war of attrition post-1870.
No.23780
>>23779There is still micro in MP, it's not all luck. If you constantly lose player wars there is more going on than dice rolls and generals… Of course if you have a reputation in an MP circle as competent you'll be more influential.
No.23781
>>23779Combat in Vicky 2 MP has two stages really, early game is using big stacks to fight decisive battles and late-game is line-battles where you pick away at frontlines and cycle in reserves/cycle out depleted units for replenishment in a grinding war of attrition, a la WW1. Most serious Vicky 2 servers will have mods which give players some around-average generals by default so they at least have that ground leveled a little, the rest is carefully manuevering with terrain and hoping for good rolls in the early game. Late-game is so intricate that it can't be easily summarized, but I'd recommend watching a Great War session because they are interesting to see unfold.
No.23783
>>23781Yeah this guy knows.
No.23784
>>23779>>23781Also, the way that Vicky 2 generals work means that they will only be exceptionally good at one side of combat or the other. A 6 attack general might have anywhere from -2 to 2 defense, so while the stack he is leading would kick ass on the attack, you could coordinate troop movements and a well-timed retreat to put his troops on the defense where he does much worse and win the battle. It's not like say EU4 where a 5 shock 6 fire general will utterly rape everything regardless of the context of the battle.
No.23787
Anyone saying war was bad in Victoria 2 is a shit-faced redditor.
No.23788
>>23787Well it wasn't perfect or anything. There were a lot of redundant or dead-end unit types, there was no system for something like unit templates which would have drastically simplified organization, soldiers being directly linked to pops would lead to retarded situations where your soldiers could not reinforce even if the province had soldier pops because they were all fractured culturally/religiously into separate ones when they should've just had something like a provincial pop pool, ect. It wasn't great, the new system is just somehow worse.
No.23789
Paradox games get boring fast
No.23793
>>23788Or having absolutely no system for supply lines or chain of command, dig in bonuses being irrelevant due to scouting, while defensive combat stats of units way to high, so attacking marching army in your own territory would result in you being in massive disadvantage. Or general being reasignable instantly with only minor prestige cost allowing your best ones to hop from frontline to frontline winning all battles, except if there is general of higher experience being present in battle, in which case he would be treated as leader even if his actual stats were utterly shite. Or having no control over battle lines, resulting in reinforcing infantry sitting on their ass at the back while artillery gets shredded at the frontlines.
>>23784>well-timed retreat to put his troops on the defense where he does much worse and win the battleExcept then the other player is going to do exactly same thing to you, resulting in constant circle of attacks and retreats until one side runs out of morale or soldiers. Again, there is no tactical dept to it, it is effectively just a stat check.
No.23797
>>23793Still better than Victoria 3.
No.23801
I would like to pirate it, but i can't be fucked to learn another pdx game.
No.23819
>>23814Fitzhugg Socialists stay winning
No.23824
>>23793>Or having absolutely no system for supply lines or chain of command…That's basically describing literally every single paradox game until recent updates for HOI4 and CK3. The games have been completely fucking busted for years, and there has only been token attempts to unfuck them recently. Vicky 3 is the first maybe-attempt at a full redesign of the combat (we'll have to see if its genuinely new or just the same old system but automated) and really it seems like a massive flop to everyone who has seen it.
>Except then the other player is going to do exactly same thing to you,Lol, that demands constant control of surrounding provinces with neither side making any kind of probing or diversionary attacks that, without proper reinforcement, can become breakthroughs of their own. I get the sense that you are mostly talking from anecdotal experience rather than concrete experience, or just had MP games with people where nobody really tried higher strategies than doomstacks.
No.23825
>>23824>that demands constant control of surrounding provinces with neither side making any kind of probing or diversionary attacksWhat exactly do you mean?
No.23826
>>23825Every battle will take place in terrain where you have to come in from other angles at the sides and from the back to reinforce, so you can take your other, not-involved-in-combat troops and attack enemy flanks to the sides of the major battles and cycle them to hope for breakthroughs. This is where like 90% of the encirclements in Vick 2 come from, players over-focusing on single major battles with their general micro and then losing their flanks with their enemies rapidly surging out around them and encircling that major battle, ensuring defeat. Only very specific places like straights will only have 1-province battles, and even then stuff like naval invasions are always a possibility. There are rarely any moments in Victoria 2 where you are out of military options, its all just about playing your hand well.
No.23834
>>23826First of all, encirclements and battlefronts only really exist in late game, in early combat doomstacks are optimal. Second, you can retreat through enemy stacks anyway. Third, what you described is literally just throwing soldiers at the frontline in hopes of breakthrough. The whole tactic relies on you having more manpower and enemy player forgetting to reinforce battles.
Naval invasions, again, rely on you a.) having bigger fleet, and b.) enemy forgetting or not being able to put soldiers on coast.
No.23835
>>23834>First of all, encirclements and battlefronts only really exist in late game,Not at all, its trivial to split off 2-3 units for early encirclements and just follow up the retreating units with your whole army since it'll get locked in a battle, unless you are playing a pretty weak nation.
>you can retreat through enemy stacks anywayIt's against most all server rulesets to do so, and ends up with the units getting deleted if you do so. It's not exactly optimal for 3rd party rulesets to manage it, but I would prefer that to Vicky 3's system which is just throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
>what you described is literally just throwing soldiers at the frontline in hopes of breakthroughWell… yeah? That is ultimately what all the combat is, trying to optimize generals, terrain roles, places you have to defend, industrial production, ect to make sure you can most efficiently utilize your manpower. It is industrial warfare, and the strategies employed heavily reflects that.
>The whole tactic relies on you having more manpower and enemy player forgetting to reinforce battles.Not at all, you can exploit bottlenecks where there are only so many places for the enemy to move in to reinforce from to create excess attrition, you can attack from different fronts to split attention, there are a lot of different situational ways you can handle a war.
>Naval invasions, again, rely on you a.) having bigger fleet, and b.) enemy forgetting or not being able to put soldiers on coast.a. is just whinging that you need to efficiently employ national production to build a navy, b. is just not exploiting opportunities like your enemy pulling away coastal defense units to say, reinforce other battles you are causing.
Overall you just don't really seem to know what you are talking about, tbh. I've outlined what was wrong with Vicky 2 on a mechanical level from the best I can tell, everything else you are posting about just isn't really meaningful.
No.23840
>>23837magnet:?xt=urn:btih:1f382de43a3078e91fae5987a1ccad61f6dd9337&dn=Victoria_3-FLT
I'm downloading this, no guarantees for its accuracy but looks good
No.23841
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIKBGBsG_EAwatching a stream while I wait for good torrents
No.23842
>>23840>>23841this one works, in game now
No.23844
Apparently the game doesnt even have DRM
No.23848
>>23844That's the same for every paradox game.
No.23860
I was already predisposed to not liking it knowing the war changes but the UI is the icing on the cake; didn't even unpause before quitting after 30 minutes of trying to decipher it. Ill try the tutorial next time but it reminds me of the UI from CK3 which I never got used to regardless of how much I played it.
Anyways, Ive been looking at the reviews to the game more then playing it and literally no one is praising the war changes (some are claiming its basically broken but I havent tested it yet), so hopefully PDX changes their minds on that
No.23862
yeah but how is communism represented in this game?
No.23869
Steam reviews going off about how Vic 3 is a 'command-economy' simulator? Are PDX /ourguys/?
No.23870
>>23869it's basically histmat the game
No.23871
>>23869From my impressions it seems less necessary than Vicky 2 because of how much more flexible the market system is compared to spheres and how you can import from regions of strategic importance, but then again artisans can't transmute fuel to cars anymore so maybe there is more of a need for economic structuring. Instead of capitalists funding their own projects now they contribute to an investment pool which you then can spend on projects, so the government itself is the prime controller of the economy. The production process, though, feels so much more simplified relative to Vicky 2 - it feels like there are a lot less goods that need other goods to produce, instead heavily relying on raw materials, so something like auturky is much easier to pull off.
No.23873
>>23872Damn that sucks, have any good examples
No.23874
>>23873I dunno. It just feels like there is a lot of not much to do really.
No.23875
>>23874Is this a "paradox game without dlc" kind of emptiness?
No.23876
>>23875Probably the worst it's ever been
No.23877
>>23875That yeah but more than that. Just moment to moment gameplay feels kinda empty beyond just having no real coherent goal to work towards.
No.23878
>>23871The player doesn't just control the government though. The investment pool is an abstraction for the sake of gameplay. Capitalists are still acting independant of the state, but now under the complete control of the player. The player exert this control through the investment pool, a representation of the money being invested by the capitalists.
No.23879
>>23877Sounds pretty shit. It was propably to be expected if we look at the trend, still sad.
No.23880
>>23879Honestly it may be the worst paradox game I've played? Mind I've not played any of the meme-tier worst ones like Imperator or March of the Eagles, but its just such a fucking directionless game.
No.23882
>>23880Ye, it feels aimless and flavourless, doesn't feel like you're playing an historical country, which means theyr're going to make you shill for country packs
No.23884
I don't think it's that bad. It has de-emphasized combat, but combat was always a meme in Paradox games. This game is clearly trying to be a bit more about economy, and at least its economy doesn't completely break halfway through the game like Vic2. It does feel a little bit like a waiting simulator, but Vic2 was almost entirely a waiting simulator outside of some very specific builds that you'd often have to cheese just to get. Remember that you couldn't even build factories in Vic2 unless you had State Capitalism or Planned Economy, and the Capitalists were fucking brain-dead and would blow loads of money funding the same shitty factories that would immediately fail.
No.23885
>>23884I mean its even beyond just the combat system - war as a whole has been made nearly impossible to wage.
War is so heavily penalized that its almost not worth doing, the radicalization system makes it so that even if you are explicitly liberating your own core territory (say like, southern serbia) then a portion of serbians will become anti-government radicals even though the government meets all of the same ideological criteria they believe in because there is an artificial "we were conquered!" inflation of radicalization progress
Like, my governance has only improved QoL through industry building and I've met pretty much all of the demands of the people through political reforms, so I have literally no resistance in northern Serbia.
But literally everywhere else in my nation has its resistance inflated because they were conquered even for places which were the same culture as me ruled over by a different culture that oppressed them, and with a worse QoL than my nation!
IN AN AGE OF NATIONALISM AND IMPERIALISM!I've not seen a paradox rebel system bust your balls as hard as early EU4 rebels were their unrest was the direct % that they would revolt every month and revolting did not lower their unrest. At least you could murder them, these people never de-radicalize and just deflate your ability to put together a functional government.
Overall this means that the world's borders tend to be very stagnant, with GPs being able to break up nations and eat them piecemeal and cracking down on resistance over large scales of time, but smaller nations? Expansion is hell, the wars you wage against other powers are easier than trying to actually bring your own fucking cultured people into the fold. Like how the fuck are you supposed to play a nation like Zulu or Sokoto, which was all about fast expansion and consolidation of surrounding territory so you could oppose the colonial powers?
Overall I kinda don't imagine a lot of the issues can be improved, like the economy (which is heavily divested away from the old industry/RGO system and towards EU4-styled buildings) and the military system (hot garbage even beyond how much war is gimped). The diplo AI is also fucking insane (Egypt beat the Ottomans and decided to annex Albania and North Macedonia for some reason, in the game I played prior they took Constantinople as a treaty port), how wars are generally handled from the diplomatic angle (can only add wargoals in escalation, maneuver points applies to both wargoals and calling allies in war so minor powers get to make fewer demands if they want to rely on great power allies), the process of trying to industrialize is somehow even slower than it was in Vicky 2 somehow, and so on. A lot of it is not just ancillary details of how the systems work but fundamental issues with the systems themselves, often on a conceptual level.
No.23886
I was thinking and realized vic 3 actually genius tier, no country irl has national focuses or goals 5/5 historical simulation
Also maybe they will be doing big reworks imperator or stellaris style?
No.23887
>>23885don't mind the debug error tracker, I've been keeping track of a lot of the weird hangups and crashes in-game and a lot of it is UI related, the game is very unstable when you are trying to move through the UI quickly
No.23892
no point buying it/pirating it then
No.23894
I'm curious, has anyone played the game and liked it?
No.23899
>>23894Yeah, I like it. The main gameplay of building shit and making numbers go up is fun.
No.23900
>>23899Honestly, is that it? Literally everyone I know who wanted to play (a dozen or so people) are all just absolutely clowning on it and I just don't know who this game was meant for.
No.23903
>>23900The warfare is pretty confusing tbh, but yeah. Diplomacy also seems opaque. I find it fun to manipulate the numbers, work out the interactions between pops, like a puzzle. I didn't have super high expectations so I'm not disappointed. I'm sure some of outrage too is from rightoids who don't like the presentation of capitalism or class interests. It will be a great game with mods/DLC, like every Paradox game. Solid 7 for me now.
No.23906
>>23885I played the game and radicalism does go down, though it does seem a touch overreactive, but that's hardly a gamebreaking issue that damns the game forever. The game also offers you a way to deal with high turmoil via the police institution.
The economic system is infinitely more functional than Vic2's was for the simple fact that it doesn't crap itself halfway through the game. The biggest problem seems to be that raw resources seem to get bottlenecked as countries industrialize, but at least here they add some flexibility to the system like the ability to produce more raw resources in the province and buy orders overtaking sell orders just causing the price to cap out. In Vic2, you just straight up ran out of raw resources, and the resources produced by RGOs could only be increased by technology and even then it wasn't enough to keep up with demand. The only way to compensate for this was to be a great power and sphere countries with the raw materials that you needed.
The diplomacy/war demands side of things can be a bit weird, but basically all Paradox titles struggled with that at some point. Half the fun of EU3 was seeing what kind of wacky, zany world the AI would produce.
On the whole, the game isn't perfect and has some room to grow, but you guys are being melodramatic. Most of the big issues could be patched out fairly easily. Some nations and systems are lacking in a bit of depth, but that's what Paradox's inevitable DLC cycle is going to deal with. It's far from their worst release. It's just different.
No.23907
>>23903Also, yeah. Some of the hate is clearly coming from rightoids who are angry that it has socialism and feminism in it and politics is generally portrayed as class antagonisms.
No.23909
Also, it's hilarious to me the number of people who want the retarded capitalist AI from Vic2 back and for it to run your economy without your input unless you have a state capitalist/planned economy government political party in power. Literally every Vic2 strategy was based around getting the right political party in power to get around the capitalist AI and now they want it back.
But even more surprising are the people who want the old fucking westernization system put back into the game. For anyone who never played Vic2, Westernization was literally just a waiting simulator that would fuck you over in one of two ways: either you could choose to take a massive tech debuff that would cause westernization to take the whole goddamn game, or a unrest debuff that would near max out the unrest in all your provinces for the entire time you were westernizing. And, like I said, the process of westernization itself was a waiting simulator where you waited to accrue enough research points to select some modern reform. That was it. Very often you couldn't colonize and or sail beyond your borders until you westernized. You could go to war, but warfare consisted entirely of throwing conscript irregulars and some shitty cavalry at the enemy because that's all you can make before you westernize. Why the fuck do so many people want THAT back?
No.23910
>>23909>Literally every Vic2 strategy was based around getting the right political party in power to get around the capitalist AI and now they want it back. Wouldn't this be more realistic tho?
No.23912
>>23909Having no private capitalists becomes utterly miserable when your country/colonies become super large but you still have to manually do anything, and manage every one of a billion trade routes. Yes I know you can auto expand buildings but then all your construction is full 100% of the time and you still have to manually build any new buildings, which you can need hundreds of.
My game looks like it's coming to an end now because I had a million native uprisings which made everyone hate me for conquering all of the congo/south africa region. But France is allowed to have an even bigger empire, the fuckers.
No.23913
>>23910The player has very little input on which political party gets in power beyond a this state-by-state nudge in the right direction. It usually comes down to a sort of cheese. And, even then, it's literally a waiting simulator until you do.
No.23914
>mixed reviews
All of the forced YouTube corporate shaming couldn't even keep this shit at a positive review lol. Wouldn't be surprised if redditors start buying more copies to leave 1 sentence positive reviews.
No.23915
>>23914*corporate shilling
No.23917
>>23903I mean it will probably be an okay paradox game after 300 DLCs and updates, but I think everyone I know rightly believes it won't be a good Vicky 2 successor.
>>23906Radicalism goes do down eventually yeah, my contention is more it existing to begin with. I, as Serbia, was liberating Serbs from Ottoman rule, and like 15% of the provincial population of the places I liberated completely opposed my government for it. It's nonsensicle in the context of national unification, it's clearly just a shit mechanic they made to disencentivize wars because the war system is bad, but not having incentives to use the war system makes playing something like Serbia, Sokoto, Zulu, ect fucking stupid. Formable nations also give your nation nothing where in Vicky 2 they were usually big moments of national and political change where the fundamental composition of your nation changes, you accept more and new people into your government, your territory becomes irrevocably yours via cores, ect. None of this exists in Vicky 3, it's literally just a flag and map color change.
As for the economics, there is a mix of HOI4's economic building blocks, EU4's mana, money (which even got turned into mana!) and building UI system, all of which are only sorta functional in their reappropiated contexts and generally unpleasant to play. And there is a bunch of stuff that was clearly handmade from scratch to emulate the feeling of Vicky 2 - but those parts are so far removed from the original systems that gave them purpose and meaning that I genuinely cannot work out how they were ever meant to relate to the rest of the game. Like, you have markets, which are kinda just like spheres but worse since it has a much more limited capacity for political power projection (you aren't called to defend people in your market during war unless they become your direct vassal via protectorate, which most nations do not want to do, so you have to use your diplo mana to make defensive pacts if you want to ensure their national (and more importantly, resource) integrity, which hamstrings your options elsewhere in diplomacy. The sphere system was literally perfect, the amount of influence great powers would throw around to make certain nations known to be of their interest and that they would both protect and aid them in war in exchange for bringing them into a common market. Did it need some overhauls? Of course, it was far too one-sided in GPs only initiating it, but the market system just seems worse again for the sake of having less wars. Before control of certain RGOs was vital for industrialization which would lead to imperialism and diplomatic parlays to conquer or sphere certain nations to feed your own industry (how you got through resource bottlenecks). This would spill over to the geopolitics of the region - say France and Italy backing the territorial integrity of Austria-Hungary for the oil in Romania vs Russia and Germany wanting to instigate a crises for Romanian oil to take that oil for themselves through them becoming an ally and sphere member. The entire replacement to that system now is just building buildings. You don't even really need to bring people into your market I find - as a smaller power you will want to be in someone's market, but as soon as you are a great power, autarky is easy.
All of this kind of stuff shows fundamental issues in design and direction, and not all of it will be as simple as "a DLC will fix it" I feel. Besides, we shouldn't have to accept that a game is dogshit and unfinished with its launch and will be "feature-complete!" like 5 years down the line.
No.23918
>>23906>The diplomacy/war demands side of things can be a bit weird, but basically all Paradox titles struggled with that at some point. Half the fun of EU3 was seeing what kind of wacky, zany world the AI would produce.There is a difference between zany alt-history and just retarded shit. No nations intervening in the Oriental Crisis, the US civil war being fought with the Confederacy having the totality of the Eastern US on its side, the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom spawning in Xinjiang and then signing a white peace with the Qing, the UK simply allowing China to ban opium, the Ottomans getting to annex Greece with no power intervening on Greece's behalf, the Springtime of Nations just overall not existing in any capacity, so on. The AI just very clearly does not know or understand what is in their interests to do, they do not try to maintain any balance of power between the GPs at all, and its just overall nothing like the politics of the actual Victorian era.
No.23919
>>23912Trade rputes being entirely manual is bizzare tbh. And very limting to the economic sim.
No.23921
>>23894this is my first paradox game and despite not having a clue what im doing its enjoyable. I've played sweden, cuba, new granada and chile so far. best part is its only gonna get better with dlc
No.23922
>>23921how tf did you play 4 countries already
>>23919I mean it kinda makes sense because economies were a lot more disconnected from each other back then than they are now, but yeah it definitely needs some kind of tools or automation to help out with it.
No.23923
>>23921I hope that last bit was trolling and/or you pirated the game
>>23922Tbh it is the most feasible paradox game to speed 5 through, especially the countries he listed since there is never a need for war (which honestly you don't need to slow down for anyways, its automated).
No.23924
Build build buildings. Build farms? Buildings. Build industry? Buildings. Build government? Buildings. Build army? Buildings. Build navy? Buildings. Build industry? Buildings. Buildings buildings buildings buildings buildings.
No.23930
If there a way to look a state NGO's without manually clicking through every single province?
Like, can a mapmode to see all the places coal mines can be built in the world?
Pls.
No.23931
>>23930just go to buildings tab > potential buildings and click the one you want if it's available
No.23932
>>23924Society is composed of buildings anon
No.23939
>>23930If you want a specific building, you to to the building tab and click on the building you want, and if you have anywhere that can support them they will get a green highlight. If not, then you can't click them.
If you are asking if there is like a mapmode to find these things - not that I can tell. I think investing in other nation's economies is something you can no longer even do, albeit I've not tried it as a market leader yet since I've only played minors. You are also heavily disincentivized from conquering and imperialism generally so I doubt they have a mapmode for it, you are supposed to just stick with your home territories as per the shit game design.
No.23940
Paradox is one of the most disgusting corporate run gaming companies out there. I will gladly dissociate from all of their garbage.
No.23946
>>23940Paradox isn't even in the top 10 worst gaming companies.
No.23951
>play Cuba
>manage to get the UK at Spain's throat and they give me independence
>game moves me from the Spanish market to a new Cuban one
>instant economic collapse
>not enough mana to sustain trade routes to recover
Are you meant to pull an IRL Cuba and go completely self sufficient before you break off?
No.23957
>>23655Gonna try to restore the Ottoman Empire in Vicky 3
No.23960
>>23940even if we're talking about the scummy DLC system,there are at least five japanese companies ahead of them,and two chinese/korean ones.
they're not Konami/Namco Bandai/Koei Techmo (especially this one)/Activision/EA
No.23962
After giving the game a try, I am extremely disappointed with how economy works. Its always central management. The capitalists are effectively just shareholders of the state. I played for only an hour, but this feels like a genuine stepdown from Vicky 2.
No.23964
It's called Victoria 3 because it's going to be three years after release before it's worth playing.
No.23972
>>23971Yeah the economic AI is braindead, and there is no global market to compensate. Nor can you even invest in other countries, so its not like you can even do all the work yourself. I managed to get like #12 economic power as Greece just by making fuckass huge paper mills and artillery factories, and that was with just my starting provinces + Crete from Egypt. I honestly think that there is a completely negligible difference between AI economies in the start date and the end date, even Vicky 2 economic AI did better than this (partly because RGOs were pop and tech-based, so I think the AI just had less to concentrate on or worry about).
No.23973
>>23971>>23972 (me)
It honestly makes sense in retrospect why the only streams they ever did with it were in the start date and usually only 20-30 years past that, if they let a game run to the end date and everyone realized "oh the AI did literally nothing this entire game" then I think the reception to Vicky 3 would be even colder than it is right now.
No.23974
>>23972Yeah, unfinished, unpolished, usual pdox stuff. And diplomacy is shit-tier here, hell, pdoxes didn't even bother trying to run game for like 50 years to see the buttload of unattackable revolt tags - because revolt tags are "revolutionary" and can't be targeted for diplomacy. This shit happened as far back as that first imperator game that was released alongside EU3 - there revolt tags were also a huge feature and also either broke or crashed your game
See this? Hong Kong revolted against the brits, they are at peace for like half a century, yet it doesn't fucking allow me to invade it, lol
No.23978
>>23976>>23977Lmao, do bureaucrats even invest into the investing pool so you sorta get the money back? If not, then somehow Vicky 3 has managed to make Communism more capitalist than Capitalism.
No.23980
>>23979Did the Netherlands take a treaty port off of the UK?
No.23981
>>23978>Lmao, do bureaucrats even investNOPE. They just get insanely rich. To be fair, worker owners don't invest either, so they also get insanely rich. Oh, and do notice subsidies going in even with positive balance
>>23977 No.23982
>>23981Lmao, how did they manage to break communism harder than vicky 2 did?
No.23984
>>23980Yeah, I have no idea how it happened
No.23987
it looks like the Vicky 3 meta now is leaning towards national militia over professional army simply because you don't actually have to fund troops, just conscript them
its funny because that is exactly how the US got stomped so hard in the war of 1812 that the White House was burnt to the ground
No.23988
>>23987Was the national militia an actual conscript army like some countries have or just a countrywide militia as in the name?
No.23989
>>23987You still have to pay them during wars, and having a big military serves as a form of welfare anyway, it's not like money is hard to get
No.23990
>>23988Nah conscript army is a separate mil policy. This is like, non-professional militias as your army.
>>23989Yeah pretty much, I think it just goes into how anti-war their mindset is. Even though the AI itself is hilariously more belligerent than it was in Victoria 2, vid related.
No.23991
>>23990lmao Austria getting bordergored so hard its name disappeared
No.23992
>>23977Aaaand i spiralled myself into a subsidies death. Council republic or planned economy are basically about taking away wealth from capitalists - first one allows worker ownership, which gives money to the workers (obviously), second one is taking money away to bureaucrats (why)
Notes to self:
1. Never overbuild, lmao. Interest money is money which evaporates, wasting your resources since the game has no inflation and stationary prices on goods
2. throughput is king, always stack everything, ESPECIALLY construction industry
3. Private healthcare and education are better than public ones - BECAUSE IT'S BASED OFF WEALTH of your pops, which is a measure of how economically good your pops are. In a council republic with worker coops, your workers will get to 20-25 wealth really fast, and that's how much public options give to you anyway. So, public options are good for capitalist countries (to enable popgrowth) and private options are good for communist ones (because pops are richer on average)
4. Women suffrage is designed like a trap - it lowers birthrates so that your economy can outgrow how fast population grows (which is a valid concern in a worker coop economy because rich pops breed very quickly), but it also gets you more more workers. And you can't hire everyone because the construction of new factories costs like a bitch
5. Don't customs union anyone whatsoever - they just parasitically siphon off your market. Don't puppet anyone either, they don't build factories by themselves, meaning you have to annex juicy provs in India and such by yourself, otherwise it won't work. Dominions supposedly allow you to annex rebellions vassals cheap - I didn't quite test it out because all my rebellions dominions allied themselves to the likes of France and Qing, and attacking them would result in WW1, lmao
6. Trying to make goods cost nothing on game's UI has no purpose whatsoever. Automating laborers away is what decreases the price of goods in real reality's terms, but it's not represented in Vicky 3 in any shape or form or even acknowledged. Slightly underproducing 5-20% all the goods is the way to go since it's basically allows you to magically create those 5-20% of goods out of thin air as those numbers basically create nonexistant goods out of thin air (money) - absolutely essential with braindead AI that doesn't produce rubber or oil or anything. The only good that seems to be good at below 100% of normal cost is apparently grain - food factories mostly spend money on grain (and sugar, but that's another story of braindead AI), so price cost reduction translates into better profitability for food factories
7. Pop needs are nested away behind two tooltips in population tab -> pop type tab -> mouse over words near "pop needs". Check the priciest thing, produce more of it to increase pops' QOL
8. All the late technological stuff is oil-based, with coal getting replaced with oil in every production process. As technology allows you to grow your economy faster than your population grows, this shit is essential to get in early-mid game. Same for rubber and plantation goods
9. Government and military wages sliders to the bottom, always, unless you need to win over intelligentsia and military guys in the politics. Consumption tax whenever you can while trying to lower the tax rate - it improves legitimacy and decreases likelihood of rebellions
10. Never accept open trade deals from China, lmao. You want a treaty port on them to bypass their tariffs, but you don't want China to evade your tariffs. Same for all big economies. Tariffs is the surest way - alongside solid taxation law - to gather money to fund construction
>>23982Doesn't matter all that much to be fair, it's only money. Also, pretty damn sure one of dev diaries said that bureaucrats will contribute to investment pool, but I guess they walked back on that?
>>23988Normal "medieval" army - you get 50 barracks and 50 conscription centers per province, from barracks you have a standing army that's basically already mobilized at all times, while conscripts take a long time to mobilize, but they don't cost goods until they are mobilized.
Professional army - 100 barracks, 5 or so conscript centers per province
National militia - 5 barracks, 100 conscript centers per province
Last mil policy - 100 of both. The best policy, but no party except military likes it, lmao
No.23993
>>23992Oh, forgot a couple more things
11. Build universities up to your research limit as fast as you can for earlier techs.
12. Build factories in a single province up to 60. It doesn't really matter where it's built, pops will migrate there anyway
13. Move your capital to a good populated province early, capital has innate bonus to building capacity and has an event for an even bigger bonus after some time and tech. You'll get like a 1000 capacity out of thin air
So, all-in-all, either wait for patches or use mods for non-brainded AI. Maybe a mod for bureaucrats investing into a pool/govt ownership giving you money directly, if there's any mod like that
No.23994
>>23993>>23992Oh, for fuck's sake
around 1:45. This guy says that interests are paid to factories you've been getting credits from. Need to check it out, but if it's true then red spending is basically an investment pool all on it's own - and you'll be basically forcing coops to finance construction. That said, there's also minting in this game, and money can totally come from nowhere and similarly go into nowhere. Needs checking, anyway
No.23996
>>23995>Political system is pretty well designed<Needs some tweaking and balancing, so that there is actual opposition to players willMemes aside it'd be pretty alright if there was a proper ideology system, the party-groupings are retarded in how liberals will form parties with communists if they have even mild political overlap.
No.23997
>>23996Nah, it's fine, it represents class interests pretty well. They just need to fix "trade unions being so happy they cease to exist as a group" bug, though, so that I get back my throughput and labor participation buffs
No.23998
>>23997Not every worker will realize and actuate their class interests, especially as a singular group. How Vicky 2 did interest groups was a better representation, it just needed a bit more fine-tuning.
No.23999
>>23998>How Vicky 2 did interest groups was a better representationHow did it do it? I dont even remember any system analogous to Vicky3 interest groups existing.
No.24000
>>23998That is fixed by not making every worker a communist, like he said lil tweaks are needed.
No.24001
>>23999Basically, a mix of events, group interests (determined by pop type, current reforms, consciousness, militancy, ect) would pops to want certain reforms which they would then align themselves with political parties which represented those issues best - either a direct interest (like say, you could directly promote planned economy via event so workers will side with the communist party) or through siding with parties which want to enact a reform the pop also wants (which is most similar to the Victoria 3 system). This allowed for pops even within the same province to split their votes around different parties, so you could have the gradual change and re-alignment of pop types with parties as the political and material situation changed.
Imho it just needed more fine-tuning of stuff like party loyalty to also have ideological loyalty because interest in passing a reform by event could fade incredibly quickly, a stronger representation of meeting or not meeting pop needs on what party pops moved to, and some other smaller stuff.
No.24002
>>23996>Not every worker will realize and actuate their class interests, especially as a singular group.They have weights/clout, though. My trade unions were so powerful they shot through integer overflow, for example. How's that not class interests?
No.24003
>>24002They are directly representative of their pop type - its not like you can have a worker in that pop type which does not have those ideals (or at least, express them in any mechanically meaningful way). So you won't have say, socdem industrialists siding with the socialists over their own interest group or factory workers defecting to fascists.
No.24004
I have a question, what am I supposed to be spending bureaucracy and authority on? Or money in situation where I dont have enough workers to keep expanding production buildings.
No.24005
>>24004>bureaucracyIt is mostly useful for the not-coring coring system, but also it is used for trade routes and other smaller things. You don't really want an excess but you really don't want a deficit either.
>authorityAnything political, from edicts (which are free money basically) to suppressing or promoting interest groups to some other small stuff. Having an excess makes law changes roll their % chances faster, but from experience its not worth it keeping it high most the time.
No.24006
So, is VIC 3 a buy later or pirate then uninstall game?
No.24007
>>24006pirate later
later in this case being many years, if CK3 development is anything to go by
No.24008
>>24007Damn, that's disappointing. Thanks, anon.
No.24009
>>24004bureaucracy for institutions like healthcare and recognizing states which gives you tax collection from that state and removes -25% malus on infrastructure
Authority for edicts, say, assimilation, migration or faster build speed, and collecting taxes on certain goods (like alcohol, tea etc). Veeery useful and without the drawbacks of full on tax hike
Excess money can be given to other country to pay their loans, or you can draw taxes down, or you can expand construction industries with it and get economy growing
No.24041
>>24010>command economy means that all your profits go to bureaucrats who don't invest back into the state (allegedly a bug)Command economy should either give extra profits directly to the state or into investment fund. First one is going to be OP, though. Worker councils don't invest either and so quickly become huge consumers of goods, hell, I have a suspicion that substinence farms under worker councils potentially can create a consumer-oriented market. But just imagine that - all the factory profits going directly to the state.
Also, fucking hilarious how Finland after Russia becomes a republic drops their GDP and QOL by like 2/3rds and starts having non-stop revolutions. Hell, they got a revolution AGAINST THEIR revolt while revolt was in motion.
Paradoxes really should fix this shit, say, make it an instant success for the revolt if target country is 1 state-large or doesn't have full states at all
No.24046
>>24042Infamy should have been completely removed and replaced with individual dispositions of countries towards your actions. This was such a dumb thing in Vicky 2 as well, you could be a communist nation allied with other communist nation and they would start contained war against you because you got infamy from spread communism CB. Even your puppet nations would break alliances.
>>24041Out of all parts of the game, this is the one I want reworked the most. It would be so great if capitalists invested themselves, but as government you could sort of create building contracts they can invest into in exchange for money or temporary tax exemption or something. Plus allowing capitalists abilities like capital strike when government keeps going against their wishes. And becoming international, being able to invest into other countries, to actually incentivise playing pro-business government and you know, giving real power to what is supposed to be the ruling class.
No.24062
>>24041i'm in agreement with you, hell, i'd take any change over the current command economy design. baffling how /v/irgins think victoria 3 is 'sjw commie' propaganda despite them absolutely fucking gutting central planning and council republics.
No.24073
>>24047I don't think the game properly tracks how fucking expensive private healthcare is.
No.24080
>>24073Public healthcare is a flat 25% (actually translates to -5%, lol) decrease to mortality, while private healthcare is 1% decrease per wealth. So, at 25 average wealth in a country private healthcare becomes as effective as public, and socialist worker ownership grows wealth of it's pops like crazy. Add welfare into the mix and well, here you go to 30-40 average wealth by 1910 as Russia/USSR and to having gold miners and opium plantation workers up to 60 wealth due to insane profits of those things
On a side note, religious charity healthcare gives the same amount of mortality decrease as public healthcare, lmao. Nuance being, institutions like healthcare are incremental, and charity hospitals can be incremented only 2 times instead of 4 for other options, so they are effectively capped at 15%
No.24083
>>23992>>23994So, did a second playthrough that died basically at the same point in time, lol
14. basically, a revision of 2 and 11 - never noticed that government buildings improve taxes in the states they are built in, not everywhere in the country. I assume construction centers also give bonuses to states they are in, not to an entire your "state". So, there's still a way to improve Russia starting game even more by having proper taxation base, lmao
15. Universities early are godly, my second choice of techs - not so much as I've lost tech game to first attempt. It's much better to focus on certain far off techs than to grab whatever's cheapest, because AI neighbors do research stuff, and you eventually get their research for free. Also, with the way economy went, I was just researching for research's sake, it's much better to grab military, ports and ships from military branch, malaria stuff, and obviously construction from society research
16. Downgrading buildings is great and useful. You want to have like half your glass factories without ceramics production attached because there's a huge demand for glass in construction. Similarly, it's insanely useful to downgrade construction sectors so that instead of steel they consume cheaper iron
17. Puppet other countries, don't annex singular provinces
No.24106
I'm still mad they made it harder to forcibly incorporate other less powerful countries in your common market as a great power.
How the fuck am I gonna make money off of and impoverish third worlders now? What's even the point of competing with other Euros? Very unimmersive for a Victorian-era game.
No.24109
>>24106Wut? You have 5-6 infamy reduction per year, you can puppet and annex the likes of Persia for 40 and 8 infamy - while conquering Persia piecemeal would take 20 infamy per province, and there's 8 of them. Also, you supposedly can have dominions which can attack other countries on their own, taking infamy onto themselves instead of you, but they tend to be dumb and don't do anything anyway - just look at British India
No.24111
I just don't feel drawn to this game like I do with HOI4 or did with EU4. I like trying to take over the world and establish hegemony in these games and you don't get the same payoff that you do in other Paradox games when you succeed.
No.24113
>>24109Yeah but since they got rid of spheres it's no longer a constant competition but about who gets to puppet the weaker countries first. On top of that the puppets and junior partners in customs unions actually get treated fairly instead of the senior partner benefitting disproportionately (which is what happened in real life).
No.24127
>>24118they got the kara boga right tho
No.24138
>>24113Yeah it sucks pretty much, also it doesn't make sense that most small countries will prefer to stay in their own customs sphere where they have access to hardly any goods, rather than join a bigger neighbour's economy.
No.24142
>>24138It might be more economically worthwhile to just set up import/export routes since the receiving country doesn't have to consent in any way to the trade deal, at least that is what I did while playing as minors a lot of the time. All it costs is admin and can actively make you money a lot of the time.
No.24143
>>24142You can embargo or get embargoed, though
No.24144
lel
>>24143I've only seen the AI do it a handful of times and never to me, only to rival GPs, so its non-important as a minor country.
No.24145
>>24144Vicky 3 makes you realise that army welfare is much better than social welfare
No.24155
>>24154the flags aren't premade like in 2 but are assembled from elements stored in the game files to make one using a file to tell the game how to assemble it.
All of the flag elements are in …\Victoria 3\game\gfx\coat_of_arms
And I think that all of the game definitions which tell the game how to assemble the flags are in …\Victoria 3\game\common\flag_definitions
So if you wanted to figure out how the flags are made, you could change it if you wanted
No.24156
>>24154>anarchist commune>communist party emblem on flag>state religion>standard of living 0 (zero)yup, it's dixie time
No.24168
>>24144They are just falling for the free trade meme and then blame welfare for becoming uncompetitive on the world market. You just need to have high as hell tariffs if you want to give people welfare, well, unless you are like 50 years technologically on top of everyone else (and Vic3 doesn't have techs this far into the future)
No.24176
>>24154>standard of living: not applicableThis makes me laugh.
>state religion: protThis is obviously the predecessor to the Holy Columbian Confederacy in that CK2 mod.
No.24178
>>24176to be honest i'm a gnostic so i think making a blasphemous sect of christianity the state religion would be a good way to help people cast off their abrahamic spooks and would be a good idea. i also dont believe that religion should be "separate" from the state because it just ends up become a lobby and megachurches start consolidating power as private companies. why should socialism nationalize all private companies but refuse to touch churches? they should be state owned. also pluralism and kathenotheism/polytheism would be the best way to encourage inclusivity by adopting the foreign gods into our own religion. yehowah/yaldabaoth was originally a canaanite god of war and thunder, but he was a god alongside ba'al, asherah and el, all of whom should be part of the christian religion. smoking weed "burning bush" and doing drugs can get you closer to god and vodou is kinda cool so we should do some of that stuff too :)
No.24179
>>24178>blasphemousi meant heretical* sorry
No.24180
>>24178>making a blasphemous sect of christianity the state religion would be a good way to help people cast off their abrahamic spooksNo ? they will just form heretical megachurches and declare themselves the real interpretation of the bible,also it will piss off all the muslims and jews in the territory,who will cling to their religion as a group signifier,gentrifying themselves from wider society (also the case under state atheism,they just lie in public,and it makes them feel more individual and detached)
>they should be state ownedI mean,the catholic churches are probably difficult to do that with because the Vatican exist (not that much since the Pope is kind of a meme figure nowadays),but I don't see why it wouldn't work with prots,don't really know what it would imply ? most churches in developped countries work off governement subsidies already.
the rest of the post is meme bullshit,but I will let you have your fun,if you can force this shit on people,you should just force atheism as a religion on them.
No.24290
>>24207Finland every game, basically
No.24293
>>24291Don't we have a grand strat general already
No.24613
>>23880Imperator is honestly good now. Real shame they fucked up release so badly it took until no one was playing it to get there
No.24614
>>24154>>24178you are incredibly fucking retarded
No.24615
>>24614Thats true but its not very nice
No.24616
>>24615imagine flying the slavers rag and expecting people to be nice to you
No.24617
>>24616It's my mark of cain. Southern whites are reactionary and we do deserve genocide though. The united states south needs to be nuked tbh
No.24628
>>24625Huh. Technically black people are part of dixie. Weird.
No.24630
>>24628Brrrr, disgusting. You really need to touch grass.
No.24637
>>24630shay just needs someone to touch her ass and stick a dog dildo in her muzzle to shut up her silly political takes
No.24641
>>24637if that is the people's will after a revolution then i shall submit to it.
No.24660
First game I played as Korea and made nazbol empire conquering Japan and indonesia. It was insanely easy probably because the civil war in China gave me independence and so I just industrialised in peace, I didn't even join a customs union but had highest GDP per capita, literacy and standard of living on the great powers list. War with all my neighbours was trivial and it was basically plain sailing and I didn't interact with half the mechanics in the game, I just built factories to increase urbanization and GDP even if they weren't profitable. Second game I played Haiti and it was going well until France declared war twice, tanking my economy and the second time they just bled me dry without sending troops until I went bankrupt which was so cringe. I will destroy them in my next playthrough mark my words.
No.24751
>>24660>I just built factories to increase urbanization and GDP even if they weren't profitableTrue Stalinist way, Feldman-Preobrazensky pilled.
No.24753
>>24660bro you literally just revealed the juche strategy to the deep state
No.24758
>>24751>true stalinist>two men who were repressed by stalinwdhmbt?
No.24821
I hate subsidies
I hate subsidies
I hate subsidies
I hate subsidies
I hate subsidies
I hate subsidies
No.25553
>>25552>thinking vicky2 is better than vicky3Vicky3 has problems, but it's nowhere near as janky and broken as vicky2. Vicky3's economy doesn't just permanently shit itself midgame for everyone except the great powers because it literally just runs out of resources.
Some of the systems in Vicky3 are just a straight upgrade over Vicky2. Take Westernization.
Vicky2: "Uncivilized" nations are populated by a bunch of ill tempered chimps that hate it when you give them roads, schools and land reforms that pulls them out of feudal serfdom because it goes against muh old ways. Your nation will sit permanently at near-maximum turmoil until these semi-human baboons fully embrace "Westernization" mentally and spiritually, at which point they suddenly see why not being a illiterate serf forever is actually a good thing and the turmoil vanishes. The only way around this is to embrace muh old ways and essentially trick your population into Westernizing, but it will take you the whole goddamn game to do so because your research will now trickle in at an absolute snail's pace. There is nothing you can do while you're Westernizing other than Westernize, it's a 100% waiting simulator.
Vicky3: As an "unrecognized" nation, you're a bit behind the times technologically and have a very antiquated government, typically dominated by an entrenched landowner interest group which completely dominates the state. The game revolves around slowly dicking over the landowners to get the reforms you need to modernize and eventually have a standoff with the Western powers to gain recognition.
No.25558
>>25553so meiji japan lol
No.25559
>>25553I dunno, Westernization (as poorly as it is framed) does make a lot of historical sense, with a lot of the lower and middle classes having a very clear realization of the prospects of capitalism leading to the loss of their societal position and monetary security leading them to want to revolt against its implementation, like a much more militant version of the Luddites. It's just that no Paradox game has any real way to model social unrest outside of open rebellion - which is especially funny considering its the fucking Victorian era, with the emergence of socialism, unions, strike-actions, ect. In Vicky 3 its just a single class of landholders which you oppose which is pretty ahistorical - craftsmen and upper-class but not landholding peasantry also had investment in the existing system and sought to uphold it, which shows how completely inflexible their "class but no politics" system is. The monolithic traits of a class in a given time completely determine their political outcomes when in reality there are always going to be multiple groups with different, conflicting interests even within the same class, something Vicky 2 models better. Also, you can speed up westernization through war, every conquest of another state brings you a lot of knowledge of westernization.
But really, the whole "Vicky 2 vs Vicky 3" discussion is retarded because everyone is comparing an idealized, modded Victoria 2 against Victoria 3, when in reality both Victoria 2 and Victoria 3 are pretty shit and are only redeemed in any real way through community modding efforts.
>>25558Yeah, it seems like "Westernization" is heavily based around the Asian experience of it. You gotta remember that in Victoria 2 basegame there are incredibly few unwesternized nations. In Africa you have all of N. Africa and Arabia, then the Sokoto Caliphate, Ethiopia, Madagascar, and Zulu. In Asia you have the Qing + their substates, Japan, Punjab, various Indian minors (all with the same flavor), Korea, and a few SEA states. After that, there are very few uncivs - releasables like the Cherokee nation, Syria and Crimea, Hawaii, and some other small states. I'm almost certain there are more Westernized nations in the game than non-Westernized.
No.26050
1.2 beta looking pretty good so far. What say you, fellow gamers? My last game I had a lot of fun blowing up as porkie Belgium, hitting 40m pop without colonizing and then going commie.
No.26085
>>26050I've not played it but it looks like there are a lot of mods trying to bring back the mechanical diversity of Vicky 2 which is good. The biggest issue for me will still be the UI, which I think is almost unsalvageable hot garbage. Ultimately my biggest issue is ultimately going to be "even if it reaches mechanical parity with Vicky 2, its still just such an ass to play." It'll take something interesting for me to really consider it.
Personally I've been playing more CK3 with the Elder Kings mod, recently got disappointed cause there is no daedric princes mechanics yet.
>>25696It's a neat project but this is the kind of stuff which takes years to make, so don't get super-excited for it coming out soon.
No.26087
>>26085I don't know what your fundamental problems with the mechanics are since I never played Vic2, but the upcoming 1.2 update looks really promising regarding the UX issues. The game's got a way to go but it seems like Pdx really are listening to fans and integrating existing mods in the game
No.26088
>>26087>>26050First time Im hearing about it, will check it out. Honestly though I just want to see performance and game mechanics improved, was never bothered by the lack of flavor, and as much as the UI bothered me, I could stand it, because modders could help to alleviate those issues. Still, thanks for the heads up, will report my findings later
>>26085>this is the kind of stuff which takes years to makeDefinitely. I havent followed development yet knowing we're in the infancy stages but I sure am glad someones attempting it.
>>26087>I don't know what your fundamental problems with the mechanics are since I never played Vic2First of all, havent played in a while so maybe things have improved, but it just feels like a different game. I personally never micro managed my economy in V2, it was just one aspect of many in the larger GSG, whereas V3 tunnel visions on that one aspect so hard, to the expense of literally everything else, that is doesnt even feel like a GSG anymore. Sometimes I have an itch for that style of gameplay (its often compared to cookie clicker), but its not often
The game is so barren that, at this "early" (knowing the pace PDX moves at [looking at you CK3]) juncture it appears to be more of a shell to sell DLC through than a game,
and yes, after all of that, I probably sound butthurt, but idc really, picrel is the absolute state of my interest in gaming these days, so maybe im just being a grumpy old man. If people like it, im happy, at least the IP can live another day
No.26091
>>26087Aside from the UI?
The economy is heavily micro-focused while also not really having much interactivity, while making it so that factories can produce way more stuff than they actually tell you about so its hard to optimize without knowing all of the alternate production types ahead of time (and if the god-awful UI had a way to show you them, it was never evident). There are also a bajillion different farm types which I can only assume all accomplish the same thing, you could probably just condense them down into grain / fruit / cows / sheep, since they all feed into alcohol / wine / leather / cotton (and canned foods). Overall the economic system just needs a lot of optimization of production lines, since it was something that was always pretty clear in Vicky 2, where the most complex thing was like, making artillery or tanks. But really the economy is incredibly busted with the AI never growing its production or trying to compete for market monopolies, a lot of the time not even trying to pursue imperialism because Europe inexplicably has so many resources and they never build their economies tall enough to need to. It's like, they know the German migrant waves to the US were mostly German lumberjacks because they had literally scoured mainland Europe of all their trees, right? Why does everyone get to have the same lumber output as is possible in fucking Brazil?
The war mechanics are stupid both on the level of how they are waged but also how they affect politics, liberation wars as like, Serbia trying to rescue your own people from Austria will net you the exact same amount of political dissidents as if you had just conquered a random place. There is no greater socio-political context to wars. Forming nations is almost irrelevant cause you can enact a law which makes you accept all cultures anyways, so cultural acceptance of all the people in the Balkans as Yugoslavia does not matter like it used to, you can already just do that as Serbia. Really the entire politics/law system is very cookie-cutter and basically ahistorical, imagine like fucking 1840's America just reconsidering like "oh maybe we shouldn't be hyper-racist" and deciding against the Trail of Tears. It's all just so… incredibly odd, like they refuse to believe that there are social mechanisms which enforced these divisions for concrete political and material outcomes, instead believing its just "a few bad actors."
Of course those are just my top 3, there are always a load of smaller things that annoy me just as much when they show up.
No.26734
How are we feeling about 1.2 beta? I'm excited for 1.2.3. Looks like the game will be in a much better position for feature expansion after the update drops in 3 days.
No.26735
>>26734It's still in beta?
No.27686
>>27681uygha had blond hair and blue eyes
No.27865
>>23655It got horrible reviews because bugs. Its probably in same condition as Victoria 2 was when it was released. Going to consoooom it in maybe after a year.
No.27866
>>27681What the fuck man.
No.27892
>>27865honestly bugs aren't even the problem really, it's just flavourless and boring
No.27898
>>27866Anarchists in the studio are huge memers. Don't recommend checking EU4's Dithmarschen mission tree if you're allergic.
No.27899
>>27681I'm sorry but if it isn't the Engels Drawing of Max Striner then it is a failure. If I had this game I would get a mod just to put that picture in, you can't put spook buster and make him not a drawing that we all memed for all these years.
No.27900
>>27896fascism is just communism confirmed
No.27901
>>27900Shitty bad copy of communism synchronized calisthenics is
our thing so are the cool uniforms and bombast
Fucking plagiarists
No.27904
>>27898Dithmarschen is kinda stupid, but also lots fun. You gotta let anarchoids of the hook this once
No.30250
1.5 open beta looks pretty good, I'm particularly impressed by the changes being made to military gameplay and the introduction of the local market mechanic. Combined with the upcoming colonialism rework in the first expansion (which is admittedly a while away) the game seems to be headed in an alright direction imo. Provided some much-needed flavor gets added too, it might actually be worth playing around this time next year. What do you guys think?
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