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File: 1666423296617.png (747.76 KB, 614x750, Marx_in_Vic3.png)

 No.23655[Last 50 Posts]

Get in the hype train Communism simulator is coming in 3 days. Which will be your starting nation?

 No.23656

>>23655
can't be bothered If your going to have to shell out for hundreds of DLC for basic features

 No.23657

I think France, try to establish the Paris commune 30 years early.
>>23656
Just pirate it then

 No.23658

Not enough beard 0/10

 No.23659

>>23656
This is a big reason I am not particularly hyped for Victoria III release. Chances are its going to take another year for the "full game" to actually come out.

 No.23660

>>23656
>purchase

 No.23661

>>23656
>Buying a Paradox game
Lmao, only when they make a complete game.

 No.23662

>>23661
>lol u cuck
>proceeds to cuck out "but less"
a tale as old as time

 No.23665

We should start calling Karl H. Marx just for the lulz

 No.23666

>>23662
you have cuckoldry in your head anon.

 No.23667

>>23655
Since when was Marx ever portrayed with a monocle?

That portrait makes him look like an aristocrat even though he wasn't.

 No.23668

>>23667
I think his clothing changes depending on the culture he joins as a politician

 No.23669

heres your society sim bro

 No.23724

didn't know you could do gommunizm in vic3

 No.23726

>>23669
Thanks, I'll take it.

 No.23727

>>23667
Ok guys.
>Pick nation
>Invite Karl Marx.
>Karl marx has typical attire from nation.
Can't wait to see Marx with a fez.

 No.23728

>>23669
So much effort on such a complicated game and you can turn it into a joke so easily…
Why do people like this genre so much?

 No.23729

File: 1666563063780.jpg (1.08 MB, 1263x1600, marx fez.jpg)


 No.23730

>>23728
You can cheese most games if you want to. I don't find it an issue that you can break the game if you do X,Y,Z. Usually those ways to play aren't fun at all so it's a non-issue for me as someone who just plays without the goal of 100% optimization.

 No.23732

>>23655
Vic 3 CWE when ?.

 No.23735

>>23728
Vic 2 Jan Mayen is funnier than that,just because you can buy Greenland and Iceland and field polar bear armies and it's a real challenge,instead of having le number go up !!!! and nothing else.

 No.23737

>>23728
Because war-centric RTS is for boring vanilla faggots.

>>23732
Soon, brother.

 No.23738

>>23735
Vic 2 Jan Mayen playthrough is pretty much the same as for any minor nation. Get Great Power ally, use them to conquer high pop colonies, now you have manpower and economy to sustain army and fleet, expand your colonial empire. Tech up by exploiting the fact only civilized pops count towards literacy. Eventually conquer some civilized provinces to get industry.

 No.23740

>>23738
yeah,that's true actually,I was thinking of GFM where you can't get a CB unless you have an army in the first place and the AI straight up didn't want to help me,but if Spain/France do the war for you,it litterally doesn't matter.
(could've added cancelling military acces to conquer Johore/Korea with exiled armies etc)

 No.23742

can you do a gommunism in victoria 2?

 No.23757

>>23742
Yes, but unless you play HFM or some other mod there is no flavour to it.

 No.23761

Games look ugly + looks like mobile game I'll pass.

 No.23763

>>23761
I guess the UI is bad but man why you judging a book by it's cover, these days it's basically standard procedure for some modder to fix the rough edges

 No.23764

>>23763
I'm not a fan of the war system, if the war system was like Victoria 2 I would be able to overlook the ugly graphics. I mostly played Victoria 2 MP and the unit micro/cycle system was the best part, if I was going to get this game it would be mostly for improved MP stability anyway.

 No.23766

>>23764
What is the new war system like? Vicky II single player combat was trivial because AI doesnt know what its doing, and in MP you had to homebrew rules due to how exploitable it was.
But damn, it the UI looked so pretty, like how hard is it to get some artist to make it more thematic.

 No.23767

>>23766
War is fun in Victoria 2, that's what I think. I liked the roleplay of naming units and seeing my guys conquer stuff. Victoria 3 war you basically just equip your troops and have the ai decide the fight instead. Why not fix the ai then instead of making a worse system? Also MP rules are pretty standard and easy to follow, basically just don't retreat multi-province and you can't go through neutral nations to fight other players directly.

 No.23768

File: 1666615707425.jpg (340.93 KB, 1920x1080, Vic2 map.jpg)

Pretty simple for mean an uglier map than Victoria 2, and a worse war system, I won't bother giving the game my time.

 No.23769

>>23767
As far as I am concerned, micromanaging army stacks was the worst part of the game. I mean we already have one paradox series that is entirely about combat, I am fine with developers prioritizing economic and diplomatic aspects. And I guarantee there will be Proper combat system DLC.

 No.23770

>>23769
Okay. I like to have fun with micro in Victoria 2 and EU4 MP, MP players are the super minority of Victoria 2 so it makes sense we get screwed over SP players. If the corporate heads at paradox decide to make a combat dlc to milk the consumers I'll consider pirating the game. bye.

 No.23771

>>23768
Didn't the system get more complex though

 No.23772

>>23769
Then a middle-ground solution like HOI4 where you can automate the war if you want seems much better than what they did, which takes out a big chunk of the affairs of the time period and downplays the amount of warfare which did happen in that period with colonial expansionism just because there were no major wars in Europe at the time. It also takes away player prerogative so your war AI can completely fuck you over and you have no control over it aside from just cheesily stacking mil buildings until you roll over your enemies. Stuff like the small-scale wars to establish arabia and eventually the UAR can't exist in Vicky 3 cause your generals might just lose the war for you.

 No.23773

>>23771
Already said I'm indifferent about that if the central part of MP has been gutted.

 No.23774

>>23772
Yeah people have already talked about some middle ground since we found out about the war system.

 No.23775

>>23774
Imho just wait like a year until they roll out the mandatory DLC that fixes the game and then pirate it.

 No.23776

>>23773
Yeah ok

 No.23777

>>23775
That's probably what I'll do, I don't really see how MP is going to be interesting in this game on day 1 with how the war system works. I've heard the arguments about the game focusing on diplomacy or economies or whatever, but after a few games that's not interesting at all. The fun part about unit micro in MP is that after every game/war you get better of course, that's how it is in Victoria 2, EU4, HOI4. Like in Victoria 2 MP if people know you have a reputation of kicking ass in war, your diplo, aspirations, and threats are taken seriously.

 No.23779

>>23777
What does "kicking ass" even mean in context of Victoria 2? Its combat has no dept. In my experience MP combat is about lucking out on best general at the beginning, and pure war of attrition post-1870.

 No.23780

>>23779
There is still micro in MP, it's not all luck. If you constantly lose player wars there is more going on than dice rolls and generals… Of course if you have a reputation in an MP circle as competent you'll be more influential.

 No.23781

>>23779
Combat in Vicky 2 MP has two stages really, early game is using big stacks to fight decisive battles and late-game is line-battles where you pick away at frontlines and cycle in reserves/cycle out depleted units for replenishment in a grinding war of attrition, a la WW1. Most serious Vicky 2 servers will have mods which give players some around-average generals by default so they at least have that ground leveled a little, the rest is carefully manuevering with terrain and hoping for good rolls in the early game. Late-game is so intricate that it can't be easily summarized, but I'd recommend watching a Great War session because they are interesting to see unfold.

 No.23783

>>23781
Yeah this guy knows.

 No.23784

>>23779
>>23781
Also, the way that Vicky 2 generals work means that they will only be exceptionally good at one side of combat or the other. A 6 attack general might have anywhere from -2 to 2 defense, so while the stack he is leading would kick ass on the attack, you could coordinate troop movements and a well-timed retreat to put his troops on the defense where he does much worse and win the battle. It's not like say EU4 where a 5 shock 6 fire general will utterly rape everything regardless of the context of the battle.

 No.23785

This thread has a lot of yeah

 No.23787

Anyone saying war was bad in Victoria 2 is a shit-faced redditor.

 No.23788

>>23787
Well it wasn't perfect or anything. There were a lot of redundant or dead-end unit types, there was no system for something like unit templates which would have drastically simplified organization, soldiers being directly linked to pops would lead to retarded situations where your soldiers could not reinforce even if the province had soldier pops because they were all fractured culturally/religiously into separate ones when they should've just had something like a provincial pop pool, ect. It wasn't great, the new system is just somehow worse.

 No.23789

Paradox games get boring fast

 No.23793

>>23788
Or having absolutely no system for supply lines or chain of command, dig in bonuses being irrelevant due to scouting, while defensive combat stats of units way to high, so attacking marching army in your own territory would result in you being in massive disadvantage. Or general being reasignable instantly with only minor prestige cost allowing your best ones to hop from frontline to frontline winning all battles, except if there is general of higher experience being present in battle, in which case he would be treated as leader even if his actual stats were utterly shite. Or having no control over battle lines, resulting in reinforcing infantry sitting on their ass at the back while artillery gets shredded at the frontlines.

>>23784
>well-timed retreat to put his troops on the defense where he does much worse and win the battle
Except then the other player is going to do exactly same thing to you, resulting in constant circle of attacks and retreats until one side runs out of morale or soldiers. Again, there is no tactical dept to it, it is effectively just a stat check.

 No.23797

>>23793
Still better than Victoria 3.

 No.23801

I would like to pirate it, but i can't be fucked to learn another pdx game.

 No.23814

File: 1666686156112-0.png (442.55 KB, 800x490, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1666686156112-1.mp4 (6.61 MB, 640x360, dixieland.mp4)

I hope this game is as insane and broken as Vic2

 No.23818

>>23814
diXIeland

 No.23819

>>23814
Fitzhugg Socialists stay winning

 No.23824

>>23793
>Or having absolutely no system for supply lines or chain of command…
That's basically describing literally every single paradox game until recent updates for HOI4 and CK3. The games have been completely fucking busted for years, and there has only been token attempts to unfuck them recently. Vicky 3 is the first maybe-attempt at a full redesign of the combat (we'll have to see if its genuinely new or just the same old system but automated) and really it seems like a massive flop to everyone who has seen it.
>Except then the other player is going to do exactly same thing to you,
Lol, that demands constant control of surrounding provinces with neither side making any kind of probing or diversionary attacks that, without proper reinforcement, can become breakthroughs of their own. I get the sense that you are mostly talking from anecdotal experience rather than concrete experience, or just had MP games with people where nobody really tried higher strategies than doomstacks.

 No.23825

>>23824
>that demands constant control of surrounding provinces with neither side making any kind of probing or diversionary attacks
What exactly do you mean?

 No.23826

>>23825
Every battle will take place in terrain where you have to come in from other angles at the sides and from the back to reinforce, so you can take your other, not-involved-in-combat troops and attack enemy flanks to the sides of the major battles and cycle them to hope for breakthroughs. This is where like 90% of the encirclements in Vick 2 come from, players over-focusing on single major battles with their general micro and then losing their flanks with their enemies rapidly surging out around them and encircling that major battle, ensuring defeat. Only very specific places like straights will only have 1-province battles, and even then stuff like naval invasions are always a possibility. There are rarely any moments in Victoria 2 where you are out of military options, its all just about playing your hand well.

 No.23834

>>23826
First of all, encirclements and battlefronts only really exist in late game, in early combat doomstacks are optimal. Second, you can retreat through enemy stacks anyway. Third, what you described is literally just throwing soldiers at the frontline in hopes of breakthrough. The whole tactic relies on you having more manpower and enemy player forgetting to reinforce battles.
Naval invasions, again, rely on you a.) having bigger fleet, and b.) enemy forgetting or not being able to put soldiers on coast.

 No.23835

>>23834
>First of all, encirclements and battlefronts only really exist in late game,
Not at all, its trivial to split off 2-3 units for early encirclements and just follow up the retreating units with your whole army since it'll get locked in a battle, unless you are playing a pretty weak nation.
>you can retreat through enemy stacks anyway
It's against most all server rulesets to do so, and ends up with the units getting deleted if you do so. It's not exactly optimal for 3rd party rulesets to manage it, but I would prefer that to Vicky 3's system which is just throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
>what you described is literally just throwing soldiers at the frontline in hopes of breakthrough
Well… yeah? That is ultimately what all the combat is, trying to optimize generals, terrain roles, places you have to defend, industrial production, ect to make sure you can most efficiently utilize your manpower. It is industrial warfare, and the strategies employed heavily reflects that.
>The whole tactic relies on you having more manpower and enemy player forgetting to reinforce battles.
Not at all, you can exploit bottlenecks where there are only so many places for the enemy to move in to reinforce from to create excess attrition, you can attack from different fronts to split attention, there are a lot of different situational ways you can handle a war.
>Naval invasions, again, rely on you a.) having bigger fleet, and b.) enemy forgetting or not being able to put soldiers on coast.
a. is just whinging that you need to efficiently employ national production to build a navy, b. is just not exploiting opportunities like your enemy pulling away coastal defense units to say, reinforce other battles you are causing.

Overall you just don't really seem to know what you are talking about, tbh. I've outlined what was wrong with Vicky 2 on a mechanical level from the best I can tell, everything else you are posting about just isn't really meaningful.

 No.23837

>>23655
Any torrents yet?

 No.23840

>>23837
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:1f382de43a3078e91fae5987a1ccad61f6dd9337&dn=Victoria_3-FLT

I'm downloading this, no guarantees for its accuracy but looks good

 No.23841

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIKBGBsG_EA

watching a stream while I wait for good torrents

 No.23842

>>23840
>>23841
this one works, in game now

 No.23843

>>23841
>click the link
>literally the first thing I hear is complains about the game having no multiplayer lobby and desyncs

 No.23844

Apparently the game doesnt even have DRM

 No.23845

>>23844
Based

 No.23848

>>23844
That's the same for every paradox game.

 No.23854

File: 1666733870621.png (835.48 KB, 1384x712, ClipboardImage.png)

It's really easy to abolish the monarchy in France but like 6 months later..
Still need to get an understanding of the game. Warfare does seem like a confusing mess.

 No.23860

I was already predisposed to not liking it knowing the war changes but the UI is the icing on the cake; didn't even unpause before quitting after 30 minutes of trying to decipher it. Ill try the tutorial next time but it reminds me of the UI from CK3 which I never got used to regardless of how much I played it.
Anyways, Ive been looking at the reviews to the game more then playing it and literally no one is praising the war changes (some are claiming its basically broken but I havent tested it yet), so hopefully PDX changes their minds on that

 No.23862

yeah but how is communism represented in this game?

 No.23863

File: 1666743887389.png (734.89 KB, 754x699, ClipboardImage.png)

>>23862
Not the best (you basically pick your ideology between anarchism, marx-leninism, or basically syndicalism at the end of a revolution which instantly forms your communist government that way with no dissenters).

 No.23869

Steam reviews going off about how Vic 3 is a 'command-economy' simulator? Are PDX /ourguys/?

 No.23870

>>23869
it's basically histmat the game

 No.23871

>>23869
From my impressions it seems less necessary than Vicky 2 because of how much more flexible the market system is compared to spheres and how you can import from regions of strategic importance, but then again artisans can't transmute fuel to cars anymore so maybe there is more of a need for economic structuring. Instead of capitalists funding their own projects now they contribute to an investment pool which you then can spend on projects, so the government itself is the prime controller of the economy. The production process, though, feels so much more simplified relative to Vicky 2 - it feels like there are a lot less goods that need other goods to produce, instead heavily relying on raw materials, so something like auturky is much easier to pull off.

 No.23872

File: 1666773146222.png (4.3 MB, 1920x1080, ClipboardImage.png)

I gotta say lads, actually playing Vicky 3, this is boring as sin

 No.23873

>>23872
Damn that sucks, have any good examples

 No.23874

>>23873
I dunno. It just feels like there is a lot of not much to do really.

 No.23875

>>23874
Is this a "paradox game without dlc" kind of emptiness?

 No.23876

>>23875
Probably the worst it's ever been

 No.23877

>>23875
That yeah but more than that. Just moment to moment gameplay feels kinda empty beyond just having no real coherent goal to work towards.

 No.23878

>>23871
The player doesn't just control the government though. The investment pool is an abstraction for the sake of gameplay. Capitalists are still acting independant of the state, but now under the complete control of the player. The player exert this control through the investment pool, a representation of the money being invested by the capitalists.

 No.23879

>>23877
Sounds pretty shit. It was propably to be expected if we look at the trend, still sad.

 No.23880

>>23879
Honestly it may be the worst paradox game I've played? Mind I've not played any of the meme-tier worst ones like Imperator or March of the Eagles, but its just such a fucking directionless game.

 No.23882

>>23880
Ye, it feels aimless and flavourless, doesn't feel like you're playing an historical country, which means theyr're going to make you shill for country packs

 No.23884

I don't think it's that bad. It has de-emphasized combat, but combat was always a meme in Paradox games. This game is clearly trying to be a bit more about economy, and at least its economy doesn't completely break halfway through the game like Vic2. It does feel a little bit like a waiting simulator, but Vic2 was almost entirely a waiting simulator outside of some very specific builds that you'd often have to cheese just to get. Remember that you couldn't even build factories in Vic2 unless you had State Capitalism or Planned Economy, and the Capitalists were fucking brain-dead and would blow loads of money funding the same shitty factories that would immediately fail.

 No.23885

File: 1666791818938.png (2.09 MB, 1920x1075, ClipboardImage.png)

>>23884
I mean its even beyond just the combat system - war as a whole has been made nearly impossible to wage.

War is so heavily penalized that its almost not worth doing, the radicalization system makes it so that even if you are explicitly liberating your own core territory (say like, southern serbia) then a portion of serbians will become anti-government radicals even though the government meets all of the same ideological criteria they believe in because there is an artificial "we were conquered!" inflation of radicalization progress
Like, my governance has only improved QoL through industry building and I've met pretty much all of the demands of the people through political reforms, so I have literally no resistance in northern Serbia.
But literally everywhere else in my nation has its resistance inflated because they were conquered even for places which were the same culture as me ruled over by a different culture that oppressed them, and with a worse QoL than my nation!
IN AN AGE OF NATIONALISM AND IMPERIALISM!

I've not seen a paradox rebel system bust your balls as hard as early EU4 rebels were their unrest was the direct % that they would revolt every month and revolting did not lower their unrest. At least you could murder them, these people never de-radicalize and just deflate your ability to put together a functional government.

Overall this means that the world's borders tend to be very stagnant, with GPs being able to break up nations and eat them piecemeal and cracking down on resistance over large scales of time, but smaller nations? Expansion is hell, the wars you wage against other powers are easier than trying to actually bring your own fucking cultured people into the fold. Like how the fuck are you supposed to play a nation like Zulu or Sokoto, which was all about fast expansion and consolidation of surrounding territory so you could oppose the colonial powers?

Overall I kinda don't imagine a lot of the issues can be improved, like the economy (which is heavily divested away from the old industry/RGO system and towards EU4-styled buildings) and the military system (hot garbage even beyond how much war is gimped). The diplo AI is also fucking insane (Egypt beat the Ottomans and decided to annex Albania and North Macedonia for some reason, in the game I played prior they took Constantinople as a treaty port), how wars are generally handled from the diplomatic angle (can only add wargoals in escalation, maneuver points applies to both wargoals and calling allies in war so minor powers get to make fewer demands if they want to rely on great power allies), the process of trying to industrialize is somehow even slower than it was in Vicky 2 somehow, and so on. A lot of it is not just ancillary details of how the systems work but fundamental issues with the systems themselves, often on a conceptual level.

 No.23886

I was thinking and realized vic 3 actually genius tier, no country irl has national focuses or goals 5/5 historical simulation
Also maybe they will be doing big reworks imperator or stellaris style?

 No.23887

>>23885
don't mind the debug error tracker, I've been keeping track of a lot of the weird hangups and crashes in-game and a lot of it is UI related, the game is very unstable when you are trying to move through the UI quickly

 No.23892

no point buying it/pirating it then

 No.23894

I'm curious, has anyone played the game and liked it?

 No.23899

>>23894
Yeah, I like it. The main gameplay of building shit and making numbers go up is fun.

 No.23900

>>23899
Honestly, is that it? Literally everyone I know who wanted to play (a dozen or so people) are all just absolutely clowning on it and I just don't know who this game was meant for.

 No.23901

File: 1666809498482.png (420.15 KB, 619x635, ClipboardImage.png)

oof

 No.23902

>>23901
Spudgun, I kneel

 No.23903

>>23900
The warfare is pretty confusing tbh, but yeah. Diplomacy also seems opaque. I find it fun to manipulate the numbers, work out the interactions between pops, like a puzzle. I didn't have super high expectations so I'm not disappointed. I'm sure some of outrage too is from rightoids who don't like the presentation of capitalism or class interests. It will be a great game with mods/DLC, like every Paradox game. Solid 7 for me now.

 No.23906

>>23885
I played the game and radicalism does go down, though it does seem a touch overreactive, but that's hardly a gamebreaking issue that damns the game forever. The game also offers you a way to deal with high turmoil via the police institution.

The economic system is infinitely more functional than Vic2's was for the simple fact that it doesn't crap itself halfway through the game. The biggest problem seems to be that raw resources seem to get bottlenecked as countries industrialize, but at least here they add some flexibility to the system like the ability to produce more raw resources in the province and buy orders overtaking sell orders just causing the price to cap out. In Vic2, you just straight up ran out of raw resources, and the resources produced by RGOs could only be increased by technology and even then it wasn't enough to keep up with demand. The only way to compensate for this was to be a great power and sphere countries with the raw materials that you needed.

The diplomacy/war demands side of things can be a bit weird, but basically all Paradox titles struggled with that at some point. Half the fun of EU3 was seeing what kind of wacky, zany world the AI would produce.

On the whole, the game isn't perfect and has some room to grow, but you guys are being melodramatic. Most of the big issues could be patched out fairly easily. Some nations and systems are lacking in a bit of depth, but that's what Paradox's inevitable DLC cycle is going to deal with. It's far from their worst release. It's just different.

 No.23907

>>23903
Also, yeah. Some of the hate is clearly coming from rightoids who are angry that it has socialism and feminism in it and politics is generally portrayed as class antagonisms.

 No.23909

Also, it's hilarious to me the number of people who want the retarded capitalist AI from Vic2 back and for it to run your economy without your input unless you have a state capitalist/planned economy government political party in power. Literally every Vic2 strategy was based around getting the right political party in power to get around the capitalist AI and now they want it back.

But even more surprising are the people who want the old fucking westernization system put back into the game. For anyone who never played Vic2, Westernization was literally just a waiting simulator that would fuck you over in one of two ways: either you could choose to take a massive tech debuff that would cause westernization to take the whole goddamn game, or a unrest debuff that would near max out the unrest in all your provinces for the entire time you were westernizing. And, like I said, the process of westernization itself was a waiting simulator where you waited to accrue enough research points to select some modern reform. That was it. Very often you couldn't colonize and or sail beyond your borders until you westernized. You could go to war, but warfare consisted entirely of throwing conscript irregulars and some shitty cavalry at the enemy because that's all you can make before you westernize. Why the fuck do so many people want THAT back?

 No.23910

>>23909
>Literally every Vic2 strategy was based around getting the right political party in power to get around the capitalist AI and now they want it back.
Wouldn't this be more realistic tho?

 No.23912

>>23909
Having no private capitalists becomes utterly miserable when your country/colonies become super large but you still have to manually do anything, and manage every one of a billion trade routes. Yes I know you can auto expand buildings but then all your construction is full 100% of the time and you still have to manually build any new buildings, which you can need hundreds of.

My game looks like it's coming to an end now because I had a million native uprisings which made everyone hate me for conquering all of the congo/south africa region. But France is allowed to have an even bigger empire, the fuckers.

 No.23913

>>23910
The player has very little input on which political party gets in power beyond a this state-by-state nudge in the right direction. It usually comes down to a sort of cheese. And, even then, it's literally a waiting simulator until you do.

 No.23914

>mixed reviews
All of the forced YouTube corporate shaming couldn't even keep this shit at a positive review lol. Wouldn't be surprised if redditors start buying more copies to leave 1 sentence positive reviews.

 No.23915

>>23914
*corporate shilling

 No.23917

>>23903
I mean it will probably be an okay paradox game after 300 DLCs and updates, but I think everyone I know rightly believes it won't be a good Vicky 2 successor.

>>23906
Radicalism goes do down eventually yeah, my contention is more it existing to begin with. I, as Serbia, was liberating Serbs from Ottoman rule, and like 15% of the provincial population of the places I liberated completely opposed my government for it. It's nonsensicle in the context of national unification, it's clearly just a shit mechanic they made to disencentivize wars because the war system is bad, but not having incentives to use the war system makes playing something like Serbia, Sokoto, Zulu, ect fucking stupid. Formable nations also give your nation nothing where in Vicky 2 they were usually big moments of national and political change where the fundamental composition of your nation changes, you accept more and new people into your government, your territory becomes irrevocably yours via cores, ect. None of this exists in Vicky 3, it's literally just a flag and map color change.

As for the economics, there is a mix of HOI4's economic building blocks, EU4's mana, money (which even got turned into mana!) and building UI system, all of which are only sorta functional in their reappropiated contexts and generally unpleasant to play. And there is a bunch of stuff that was clearly handmade from scratch to emulate the feeling of Vicky 2 - but those parts are so far removed from the original systems that gave them purpose and meaning that I genuinely cannot work out how they were ever meant to relate to the rest of the game. Like, you have markets, which are kinda just like spheres but worse since it has a much more limited capacity for political power projection (you aren't called to defend people in your market during war unless they become your direct vassal via protectorate, which most nations do not want to do, so you have to use your diplo mana to make defensive pacts if you want to ensure their national (and more importantly, resource) integrity, which hamstrings your options elsewhere in diplomacy. The sphere system was literally perfect, the amount of influence great powers would throw around to make certain nations known to be of their interest and that they would both protect and aid them in war in exchange for bringing them into a common market. Did it need some overhauls? Of course, it was far too one-sided in GPs only initiating it, but the market system just seems worse again for the sake of having less wars. Before control of certain RGOs was vital for industrialization which would lead to imperialism and diplomatic parlays to conquer or sphere certain nations to feed your own industry (how you got through resource bottlenecks). This would spill over to the geopolitics of the region - say France and Italy backing the territorial integrity of Austria-Hungary for the oil in Romania vs Russia and Germany wanting to instigate a crises for Romanian oil to take that oil for themselves through them becoming an ally and sphere member. The entire replacement to that system now is just building buildings. You don't even really need to bring people into your market I find - as a smaller power you will want to be in someone's market, but as soon as you are a great power, autarky is easy.

All of this kind of stuff shows fundamental issues in design and direction, and not all of it will be as simple as "a DLC will fix it" I feel. Besides, we shouldn't have to accept that a game is dogshit and unfinished with its launch and will be "feature-complete!" like 5 years down the line.

 No.23918

>>23906
>The diplomacy/war demands side of things can be a bit weird, but basically all Paradox titles struggled with that at some point. Half the fun of EU3 was seeing what kind of wacky, zany world the AI would produce.
There is a difference between zany alt-history and just retarded shit. No nations intervening in the Oriental Crisis, the US civil war being fought with the Confederacy having the totality of the Eastern US on its side, the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom spawning in Xinjiang and then signing a white peace with the Qing, the UK simply allowing China to ban opium, the Ottomans getting to annex Greece with no power intervening on Greece's behalf, the Springtime of Nations just overall not existing in any capacity, so on. The AI just very clearly does not know or understand what is in their interests to do, they do not try to maintain any balance of power between the GPs at all, and its just overall nothing like the politics of the actual Victorian era.

 No.23919

>>23912
Trade rputes being entirely manual is bizzare tbh. And very limting to the economic sim.

 No.23921

>>23894
this is my first paradox game and despite not having a clue what im doing its enjoyable. I've played sweden, cuba, new granada and chile so far. best part is its only gonna get better with dlc

 No.23922

>>23921
how tf did you play 4 countries already

>>23919
I mean it kinda makes sense because economies were a lot more disconnected from each other back then than they are now, but yeah it definitely needs some kind of tools or automation to help out with it.

 No.23923

>>23921
I hope that last bit was trolling and/or you pirated the game
>>23922
Tbh it is the most feasible paradox game to speed 5 through, especially the countries he listed since there is never a need for war (which honestly you don't need to slow down for anyways, its automated).

 No.23924

Build build buildings. Build farms? Buildings. Build industry? Buildings. Build government? Buildings. Build army? Buildings. Build navy? Buildings. Build industry? Buildings. Buildings buildings buildings buildings buildings.

 No.23930

If there a way to look a state NGO's without manually clicking through every single province?
Like, can a mapmode to see all the places coal mines can be built in the world?
Pls.

 No.23931

>>23930
just go to buildings tab > potential buildings and click the one you want if it's available

 No.23932

>>23924
Society is composed of buildings anon

 No.23939

>>23930
If you want a specific building, you to to the building tab and click on the building you want, and if you have anywhere that can support them they will get a green highlight. If not, then you can't click them.

If you are asking if there is like a mapmode to find these things - not that I can tell. I think investing in other nation's economies is something you can no longer even do, albeit I've not tried it as a market leader yet since I've only played minors. You are also heavily disincentivized from conquering and imperialism generally so I doubt they have a mapmode for it, you are supposed to just stick with your home territories as per the shit game design.

 No.23940

Paradox is one of the most disgusting corporate run gaming companies out there. I will gladly dissociate from all of their garbage.

 No.23942

>>23940
>corporate run gaming company

 No.23946

>>23940
Paradox isn't even in the top 10 worst gaming companies.

 No.23951

>play Cuba
>manage to get the UK at Spain's throat and they give me independence
>game moves me from the Spanish market to a new Cuban one
>instant economic collapse
>not enough mana to sustain trade routes to recover
Are you meant to pull an IRL Cuba and go completely self sufficient before you break off?

 No.23952

>>23951
get haiti'd lmao

 No.23957

>>23655
Gonna try to restore the Ottoman Empire in Vicky 3

 No.23958

>>23957
good luck anon

 No.23960

>>23940
even if we're talking about the scummy DLC system,there are at least five japanese companies ahead of them,and two chinese/korean ones.
they're not Konami/Namco Bandai/Koei Techmo (especially this one)/Activision/EA

 No.23962

After giving the game a try, I am extremely disappointed with how economy works. Its always central management. The capitalists are effectively just shareholders of the state. I played for only an hour, but this feels like a genuine stepdown from Vicky 2.

 No.23964

It's called Victoria 3 because it's going to be three years after release before it's worth playing.

 No.23971

File: 1667027567758-0.png (1.61 MB, 1360x768, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1667027567758-1.png (283.11 KB, 320x658, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1667027567758-2.png (1.79 MB, 1360x768, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1667027567758-3.png (362.1 KB, 377x691, ClipboardImage.png)

So, dudes, made my Soviet Union

AI is fucking braindead and didn't develop any tea, coffee or rubber or oil provinces, it's either go to war or wait into HOI4 to develop synthetic rubber now lol

 No.23972

>>23971
Yeah the economic AI is braindead, and there is no global market to compensate. Nor can you even invest in other countries, so its not like you can even do all the work yourself. I managed to get like #12 economic power as Greece just by making fuckass huge paper mills and artillery factories, and that was with just my starting provinces + Crete from Egypt. I honestly think that there is a completely negligible difference between AI economies in the start date and the end date, even Vicky 2 economic AI did better than this (partly because RGOs were pop and tech-based, so I think the AI just had less to concentrate on or worry about).

 No.23973

>>23971
>>23972 (me)
It honestly makes sense in retrospect why the only streams they ever did with it were in the start date and usually only 20-30 years past that, if they let a game run to the end date and everyone realized "oh the AI did literally nothing this entire game" then I think the reception to Vicky 3 would be even colder than it is right now.

 No.23974

File: 1667035847897.png (509.48 KB, 670x464, ClipboardImage.png)

>>23972
Yeah, unfinished, unpolished, usual pdox stuff. And diplomacy is shit-tier here, hell, pdoxes didn't even bother trying to run game for like 50 years to see the buttload of unattackable revolt tags - because revolt tags are "revolutionary" and can't be targeted for diplomacy. This shit happened as far back as that first imperator game that was released alongside EU3 - there revolt tags were also a huge feature and also either broke or crashed your game

See this? Hong Kong revolted against the brits, they are at peace for like half a century, yet it doesn't fucking allow me to invade it, lol

 No.23976

File: 1667041686269.png (493.23 KB, 703x489, ClipboardImage.png)

>>23974
>>23973
>>23972
Oh, and more shit - subsidies are super broken. Planned economy always subsidizes, but at the same time game doesn't know when to stop subsidizing. So, pop-owners get filthy rich while you get into deeper red on the balance sheet

 No.23977

File: 1667041766782.png (204.6 KB, 453x269, ClipboardImage.png)

>>23976
And government ownership gives those ownership shares to bureaucrats instead of your state

 No.23978

>>23976
>>23977
Lmao, do bureaucrats even invest into the investing pool so you sorta get the money back? If not, then somehow Vicky 3 has managed to make Communism more capitalist than Capitalism.

 No.23979

File: 1667043434369-0.png (1.04 MB, 561x969, 1.png)

File: 1667043434369-1.png (3.85 MB, 1920x1080, b.png)

I restored Byzantium in 1860, 10/10. I want to a give a shoutout to the Ottomans and the Egyptians for killing each other for years, we barely fought in most of the wars. Egypt got East Thrace and Aydin after their first war, which I then yoinked and they couldn't even reach them to defend them. We are supposedly allied to Russia, but they've never helped us. What they did instead is start the Russo-Egyptian war, in which the Ottomans joined them, a horrifying attrition war which has been raging on for 14 years (it's 1863 now), utterly devastating all countries involved.

 No.23980

>>23979
Did the Netherlands take a treaty port off of the UK?

 No.23981

>>23978
>Lmao, do bureaucrats even invest
NOPE. They just get insanely rich. To be fair, worker owners don't invest either, so they also get insanely rich. Oh, and do notice subsidies going in even with positive balance >>23977

 No.23982

>>23981
Lmao, how did they manage to break communism harder than vicky 2 did?

 No.23984

>>23980
Yeah, I have no idea how it happened

 No.23987

it looks like the Vicky 3 meta now is leaning towards national militia over professional army simply because you don't actually have to fund troops, just conscript them

its funny because that is exactly how the US got stomped so hard in the war of 1812 that the White House was burnt to the ground

 No.23988

>>23987
Was the national militia an actual conscript army like some countries have or just a countrywide militia as in the name?

 No.23989

>>23987
You still have to pay them during wars, and having a big military serves as a form of welfare anyway, it's not like money is hard to get

 No.23990

>>23988
Nah conscript army is a separate mil policy. This is like, non-professional militias as your army.
>>23989
Yeah pretty much, I think it just goes into how anti-war their mindset is. Even though the AI itself is hilariously more belligerent than it was in Victoria 2, vid related.

 No.23991

>>23990
lmao Austria getting bordergored so hard its name disappeared

 No.23992

>>23977
Aaaand i spiralled myself into a subsidies death. Council republic or planned economy are basically about taking away wealth from capitalists - first one allows worker ownership, which gives money to the workers (obviously), second one is taking money away to bureaucrats (why)

Notes to self:
1. Never overbuild, lmao. Interest money is money which evaporates, wasting your resources since the game has no inflation and stationary prices on goods

2. throughput is king, always stack everything, ESPECIALLY construction industry

3. Private healthcare and education are better than public ones - BECAUSE IT'S BASED OFF WEALTH of your pops, which is a measure of how economically good your pops are. In a council republic with worker coops, your workers will get to 20-25 wealth really fast, and that's how much public options give to you anyway. So, public options are good for capitalist countries (to enable popgrowth) and private options are good for communist ones (because pops are richer on average)

4. Women suffrage is designed like a trap - it lowers birthrates so that your economy can outgrow how fast population grows (which is a valid concern in a worker coop economy because rich pops breed very quickly), but it also gets you more more workers. And you can't hire everyone because the construction of new factories costs like a bitch

5. Don't customs union anyone whatsoever - they just parasitically siphon off your market. Don't puppet anyone either, they don't build factories by themselves, meaning you have to annex juicy provs in India and such by yourself, otherwise it won't work. Dominions supposedly allow you to annex rebellions vassals cheap - I didn't quite test it out because all my rebellions dominions allied themselves to the likes of France and Qing, and attacking them would result in WW1, lmao

6. Trying to make goods cost nothing on game's UI has no purpose whatsoever. Automating laborers away is what decreases the price of goods in real reality's terms, but it's not represented in Vicky 3 in any shape or form or even acknowledged. Slightly underproducing 5-20% all the goods is the way to go since it's basically allows you to magically create those 5-20% of goods out of thin air as those numbers basically create nonexistant goods out of thin air (money) - absolutely essential with braindead AI that doesn't produce rubber or oil or anything. The only good that seems to be good at below 100% of normal cost is apparently grain - food factories mostly spend money on grain (and sugar, but that's another story of braindead AI), so price cost reduction translates into better profitability for food factories

7. Pop needs are nested away behind two tooltips in population tab -> pop type tab -> mouse over words near "pop needs". Check the priciest thing, produce more of it to increase pops' QOL

8. All the late technological stuff is oil-based, with coal getting replaced with oil in every production process. As technology allows you to grow your economy faster than your population grows, this shit is essential to get in early-mid game. Same for rubber and plantation goods

9. Government and military wages sliders to the bottom, always, unless you need to win over intelligentsia and military guys in the politics. Consumption tax whenever you can while trying to lower the tax rate - it improves legitimacy and decreases likelihood of rebellions

10. Never accept open trade deals from China, lmao. You want a treaty port on them to bypass their tariffs, but you don't want China to evade your tariffs. Same for all big economies. Tariffs is the surest way - alongside solid taxation law - to gather money to fund construction

>>23982
Doesn't matter all that much to be fair, it's only money. Also, pretty damn sure one of dev diaries said that bureaucrats will contribute to investment pool, but I guess they walked back on that?

>>23988
Normal "medieval" army - you get 50 barracks and 50 conscription centers per province, from barracks you have a standing army that's basically already mobilized at all times, while conscripts take a long time to mobilize, but they don't cost goods until they are mobilized.

Professional army - 100 barracks, 5 or so conscript centers per province

National militia - 5 barracks, 100 conscript centers per province

Last mil policy - 100 of both. The best policy, but no party except military likes it, lmao

 No.23993

>>23992
Oh, forgot a couple more things

11. Build universities up to your research limit as fast as you can for earlier techs.

12. Build factories in a single province up to 60. It doesn't really matter where it's built, pops will migrate there anyway

13. Move your capital to a good populated province early, capital has innate bonus to building capacity and has an event for an even bigger bonus after some time and tech. You'll get like a 1000 capacity out of thin air

So, all-in-all, either wait for patches or use mods for non-brainded AI. Maybe a mod for bureaucrats investing into a pool/govt ownership giving you money directly, if there's any mod like that

 No.23994

>>23993
>>23992
Oh, for fuck's sake

around 1:45. This guy says that interests are paid to factories you've been getting credits from. Need to check it out, but if it's true then red spending is basically an investment pool all on it's own - and you'll be basically forcing coops to finance construction. That said, there's also minting in this game, and money can totally come from nowhere and similarly go into nowhere. Needs checking, anyway

 No.23995

Political system is pretty well designed I would say. Needs some tweaking and balancing, so that there is actual opposition to players will, but otherwise the best part of the game.

 No.23996

>>23995
>Political system is pretty well designed
<Needs some tweaking and balancing, so that there is actual opposition to players will

Memes aside it'd be pretty alright if there was a proper ideology system, the party-groupings are retarded in how liberals will form parties with communists if they have even mild political overlap.

 No.23997

>>23996
Nah, it's fine, it represents class interests pretty well. They just need to fix "trade unions being so happy they cease to exist as a group" bug, though, so that I get back my throughput and labor participation buffs

 No.23998

>>23997
Not every worker will realize and actuate their class interests, especially as a singular group. How Vicky 2 did interest groups was a better representation, it just needed a bit more fine-tuning.

 No.23999

>>23998
>How Vicky 2 did interest groups was a better representation
How did it do it? I dont even remember any system analogous to Vicky3 interest groups existing.

 No.24000

>>23998
That is fixed by not making every worker a communist, like he said lil tweaks are needed.

 No.24001

>>23999
Basically, a mix of events, group interests (determined by pop type, current reforms, consciousness, militancy, ect) would pops to want certain reforms which they would then align themselves with political parties which represented those issues best - either a direct interest (like say, you could directly promote planned economy via event so workers will side with the communist party) or through siding with parties which want to enact a reform the pop also wants (which is most similar to the Victoria 3 system). This allowed for pops even within the same province to split their votes around different parties, so you could have the gradual change and re-alignment of pop types with parties as the political and material situation changed.

Imho it just needed more fine-tuning of stuff like party loyalty to also have ideological loyalty because interest in passing a reform by event could fade incredibly quickly, a stronger representation of meeting or not meeting pop needs on what party pops moved to, and some other smaller stuff.

 No.24002

>>23996
>Not every worker will realize and actuate their class interests, especially as a singular group.

They have weights/clout, though. My trade unions were so powerful they shot through integer overflow, for example. How's that not class interests?

 No.24003

>>24002
They are directly representative of their pop type - its not like you can have a worker in that pop type which does not have those ideals (or at least, express them in any mechanically meaningful way). So you won't have say, socdem industrialists siding with the socialists over their own interest group or factory workers defecting to fascists.

 No.24004

I have a question, what am I supposed to be spending bureaucracy and authority on? Or money in situation where I dont have enough workers to keep expanding production buildings.

 No.24005

>>24004
>bureaucracy
It is mostly useful for the not-coring coring system, but also it is used for trade routes and other smaller things. You don't really want an excess but you really don't want a deficit either.
>authority
Anything political, from edicts (which are free money basically) to suppressing or promoting interest groups to some other small stuff. Having an excess makes law changes roll their % chances faster, but from experience its not worth it keeping it high most the time.

 No.24006

So, is VIC 3 a buy later or pirate then uninstall game?

 No.24007

>>24006
pirate later
later in this case being many years, if CK3 development is anything to go by

 No.24008

>>24007
Damn, that's disappointing. Thanks, anon.

 No.24009

>>24004
bureaucracy for institutions like healthcare and recognizing states which gives you tax collection from that state and removes -25% malus on infrastructure

Authority for edicts, say, assimilation, migration or faster build speed, and collecting taxes on certain goods (like alcohol, tea etc). Veeery useful and without the drawbacks of full on tax hike

Excess money can be given to other country to pay their loans, or you can draw taxes down, or you can expand construction industries with it and get economy growing

 No.24010

i'm having fun with it, but, holy fuck it's so hilariously bugged. command economy means that all your profits go to bureaucrats who don't invest back into the state (allegedly a bug) so you make zero money from anything but taxes, i'm the only country producing radios in 1913, the whig party is part of my proletarian state's government, germany has not been unified a single time in any of my games, there is still a demand for man-o-wars and clipper ships in my 20th century economy, and haiti owns the entirety of colombia. classic paradox.

 No.24020

New review is out from a decently seasoned Vicky 2 player

 No.24041

>>24010
>command economy means that all your profits go to bureaucrats who don't invest back into the state (allegedly a bug)

Command economy should either give extra profits directly to the state or into investment fund. First one is going to be OP, though. Worker councils don't invest either and so quickly become huge consumers of goods, hell, I have a suspicion that substinence farms under worker councils potentially can create a consumer-oriented market. But just imagine that - all the factory profits going directly to the state.

Also, fucking hilarious how Finland after Russia becomes a republic drops their GDP and QOL by like 2/3rds and starts having non-stop revolutions. Hell, they got a revolution AGAINST THEIR revolt while revolt was in motion.

Paradoxes really should fix this shit, say, make it an instant success for the revolt if target country is 1 state-large or doesn't have full states at all

 No.24042

File: 1667205464891.png (664.09 KB, 850x505, ClipboardImage.png)

>>24010
>>24041
Also, revolt states are doomed, unless they are small. They just get infamy hit by annexation CB and become the pariah of the world, lmao

 No.24046

File: 1667221215598.jpg (543.23 KB, 2176x3306, business.jpg)

>>24042
Infamy should have been completely removed and replaced with individual dispositions of countries towards your actions. This was such a dumb thing in Vicky 2 as well, you could be a communist nation allied with other communist nation and they would start contained war against you because you got infamy from spread communism CB. Even your puppet nations would break alliances.

>>24041
Out of all parts of the game, this is the one I want reworked the most. It would be so great if capitalists invested themselves, but as government you could sort of create building contracts they can invest into in exchange for money or temporary tax exemption or something. Plus allowing capitalists abilities like capital strike when government keeps going against their wishes. And becoming international, being able to invest into other countries, to actually incentivise playing pro-business government and you know, giving real power to what is supposed to be the ruling class.

 No.24047

File: 1667222739955-0.png (160.39 KB, 355x304, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1667222739955-1.png (159.62 KB, 360x312, ClipboardImage.png)

So yeah, private healthcare is superior to public in a socialist economy, lol

 No.24048

File: 1667223133739.png (244.8 KB, 422x412, ClipboardImage.png)

>>24047
Man, I shudder to think how fast must an economy grow to sustain those kinds of population growths

 No.24062

>>24041
i'm in agreement with you, hell, i'd take any change over the current command economy design. baffling how /v/irgins think victoria 3 is 'sjw commie' propaganda despite them absolutely fucking gutting central planning and council republics.

 No.24073

>>24047
I don't think the game properly tracks how fucking expensive private healthcare is.

 No.24080

>>24073
Public healthcare is a flat 25% (actually translates to -5%, lol) decrease to mortality, while private healthcare is 1% decrease per wealth. So, at 25 average wealth in a country private healthcare becomes as effective as public, and socialist worker ownership grows wealth of it's pops like crazy. Add welfare into the mix and well, here you go to 30-40 average wealth by 1910 as Russia/USSR and to having gold miners and opium plantation workers up to 60 wealth due to insane profits of those things

On a side note, religious charity healthcare gives the same amount of mortality decrease as public healthcare, lmao. Nuance being, institutions like healthcare are incremental, and charity hospitals can be incremented only 2 times instead of 4 for other options, so they are effectively capped at 15%

 No.24083

File: 1667321605498.png (1.68 MB, 1360x768, ClipboardImage.png)

>>23992
>>23994
So, did a second playthrough that died basically at the same point in time, lol

14. basically, a revision of 2 and 11 - never noticed that government buildings improve taxes in the states they are built in, not everywhere in the country. I assume construction centers also give bonuses to states they are in, not to an entire your "state". So, there's still a way to improve Russia starting game even more by having proper taxation base, lmao

15. Universities early are godly, my second choice of techs - not so much as I've lost tech game to first attempt. It's much better to focus on certain far off techs than to grab whatever's cheapest, because AI neighbors do research stuff, and you eventually get their research for free. Also, with the way economy went, I was just researching for research's sake, it's much better to grab military, ports and ships from military branch, malaria stuff, and obviously construction from society research

16. Downgrading buildings is great and useful. You want to have like half your glass factories without ceramics production attached because there's a huge demand for glass in construction. Similarly, it's insanely useful to downgrade construction sectors so that instead of steel they consume cheaper iron

17. Puppet other countries, don't annex singular provinces

 No.24106

I'm still mad they made it harder to forcibly incorporate other less powerful countries in your common market as a great power.
How the fuck am I gonna make money off of and impoverish third worlders now? What's even the point of competing with other Euros? Very unimmersive for a Victorian-era game.

 No.24109

>>24106
Wut? You have 5-6 infamy reduction per year, you can puppet and annex the likes of Persia for 40 and 8 infamy - while conquering Persia piecemeal would take 20 infamy per province, and there's 8 of them. Also, you supposedly can have dominions which can attack other countries on their own, taking infamy onto themselves instead of you, but they tend to be dumb and don't do anything anyway - just look at British India

 No.24111

I just don't feel drawn to this game like I do with HOI4 or did with EU4. I like trying to take over the world and establish hegemony in these games and you don't get the same payoff that you do in other Paradox games when you succeed.

 No.24113

>>24109
Yeah but since they got rid of spheres it's no longer a constant competition but about who gets to puppet the weaker countries first. On top of that the puppets and junior partners in customs unions actually get treated fairly instead of the senior partner benefitting disproportionately (which is what happened in real life).

 No.24118

File: 1667418509006.png (1.88 MB, 1672x983, ClipboardImage.png)

Finally played this,The performance and AI are really bad so even if you like the tedious game-play loop of building and trading while handicapped with a godawful UI, its really hard to enjoy this. After a couple of restarts on the Ottomans to learn the game,I think Im ready to uninstall until a major patch drops and DLC are released.

 No.24127

>>24118
they got the kara boga right tho

 No.24138

>>24113
Yeah it sucks pretty much, also it doesn't make sense that most small countries will prefer to stay in their own customs sphere where they have access to hardly any goods, rather than join a bigger neighbour's economy.

 No.24142

>>24138
It might be more economically worthwhile to just set up import/export routes since the receiving country doesn't have to consent in any way to the trade deal, at least that is what I did while playing as minors a lot of the time. All it costs is admin and can actively make you money a lot of the time.

 No.24143

>>24142
You can embargo or get embargoed, though

 No.24144

File: 1667493314596-0.jpg (47.57 KB, 640x484, Fgk6xtTacAAAhdX.jpg)

File: 1667493314596-1.jpg (29.49 KB, 610x324, Fgk6x08aUAArd2W.jpg)

File: 1667493314596-2.png (46.82 KB, 569x264, Fgk6x8EaEAA8mp5.png)

File: 1667493314596-3.png (13.15 KB, 521x128, Fgk6yDgaMAAPptx.png)

lel
>>24143
I've only seen the AI do it a handful of times and never to me, only to rival GPs, so its non-important as a minor country.

 No.24145

>>24144
Vicky 3 makes you realise that army welfare is much better than social welfare

 No.24154

File: 1667504019359.png (970.96 KB, 1071x1395, 1667439203670.png)

Ok but why is the flag so disgusting though

 No.24155

>>24154
the flags aren't premade like in 2 but are assembled from elements stored in the game files to make one using a file to tell the game how to assemble it.
All of the flag elements are in …\Victoria 3\game\gfx\coat_of_arms
And I think that all of the game definitions which tell the game how to assemble the flags are in …\Victoria 3\game\common\flag_definitions

So if you wanted to figure out how the flags are made, you could change it if you wanted

 No.24156

>>24154
>anarchist commune
>communist party emblem on flag
>state religion
>standard of living 0 (zero)
yup, it's dixie time

 No.24168

>>24144
They are just falling for the free trade meme and then blame welfare for becoming uncompetitive on the world market. You just need to have high as hell tariffs if you want to give people welfare, well, unless you are like 50 years technologically on top of everyone else (and Vic3 doesn't have techs this far into the future)

 No.24176

>>24154
>standard of living: not applicable
This makes me laugh.
>state religion: prot
This is obviously the predecessor to the Holy Columbian Confederacy in that CK2 mod.

 No.24178

>>24176
to be honest i'm a gnostic so i think making a blasphemous sect of christianity the state religion would be a good way to help people cast off their abrahamic spooks and would be a good idea. i also dont believe that religion should be "separate" from the state because it just ends up become a lobby and megachurches start consolidating power as private companies. why should socialism nationalize all private companies but refuse to touch churches? they should be state owned. also pluralism and kathenotheism/polytheism would be the best way to encourage inclusivity by adopting the foreign gods into our own religion. yehowah/yaldabaoth was originally a canaanite god of war and thunder, but he was a god alongside ba'al, asherah and el, all of whom should be part of the christian religion. smoking weed "burning bush" and doing drugs can get you closer to god and vodou is kinda cool so we should do some of that stuff too :)

 No.24179

>>24178
>blasphemous
i meant heretical* sorry

 No.24180

>>24178
>making a blasphemous sect of christianity the state religion would be a good way to help people cast off their abrahamic spooks
No ? they will just form heretical megachurches and declare themselves the real interpretation of the bible,also it will piss off all the muslims and jews in the territory,who will cling to their religion as a group signifier,gentrifying themselves from wider society (also the case under state atheism,they just lie in public,and it makes them feel more individual and detached)
>they should be state owned
I mean,the catholic churches are probably difficult to do that with because the Vatican exist (not that much since the Pope is kind of a meme figure nowadays),but I don't see why it wouldn't work with prots,don't really know what it would imply ? most churches in developped countries work off governement subsidies already.
the rest of the post is meme bullshit,but I will let you have your fun,if you can force this shit on people,you should just force atheism as a religion on them.

 No.24207

I haven't played Vic3 yet but this video was interesting.

This guy proved that the take an unihabited island and make your own society thing really works, and for communism too!

Jokes aside it kind of reminded me of the guy asking about Taiwan and why they're richer than China. Also Israel. Or a lot of other rich micronations. Being the advanced manufacturing protectorate of a larger empire has its perks.

 No.24290

>>24207
Finland every game, basically

 No.24291

File: 1668179018463.png (60.56 KB, 322x387, 1665606276455.png)

Since Vicky 3 discussion has died down, this thread can be used for both Vicky 2 and Vicky 3 discussion.

 No.24293

>>24291
Don't we have a grand strat general already

 No.24613

>>23880
Imperator is honestly good now. Real shame they fucked up release so badly it took until no one was playing it to get there

 No.24614

>>24154
>>24178
you are incredibly fucking retarded

 No.24615

>>24614
Thats true but its not very nice

 No.24616

>>24615
imagine flying the slavers rag and expecting people to be nice to you

 No.24617

>>24616
It's my mark of cain. Southern whites are reactionary and we do deserve genocide though. The united states south needs to be nuked tbh

 No.24618

File: 1669550743725.jpeg (66.06 KB, 640x756, satan and america.jpeg)

>>24617
>The united states south needs to be nuked tbh
Just the South?

 No.24625

>>24617
>wants to nuke the black belt due to performative shame

 No.24628

>>24625
Huh. Technically black people are part of dixie. Weird.

 No.24630

>>24628
Brrrr, disgusting. You really need to touch grass.

 No.24637

>>24630
shay just needs someone to touch her ass and stick a dog dildo in her muzzle to shut up her silly political takes

 No.24638

>>24637
kinky

 No.24639


 No.24641

>>24637
if that is the people's will after a revolution then i shall submit to it.

 No.24642

>>24641
Nah, keep talking

 No.24659


 No.24660

First game I played as Korea and made nazbol empire conquering Japan and indonesia. It was insanely easy probably because the civil war in China gave me independence and so I just industrialised in peace, I didn't even join a customs union but had highest GDP per capita, literacy and standard of living on the great powers list. War with all my neighbours was trivial and it was basically plain sailing and I didn't interact with half the mechanics in the game, I just built factories to increase urbanization and GDP even if they weren't profitable. Second game I played Haiti and it was going well until France declared war twice, tanking my economy and the second time they just bled me dry without sending troops until I went bankrupt which was so cringe. I will destroy them in my next playthrough mark my words.

 No.24751

>>24660
>I just built factories to increase urbanization and GDP even if they weren't profitable
True Stalinist way, Feldman-Preobrazensky pilled.

 No.24753

>>24660
bro you literally just revealed the juche strategy to the deep state

 No.24758

>>24751
>true stalinist
>two men who were repressed by stalin
wdhmbt?

 No.24821

I hate subsidies
I hate subsidies
I hate subsidies
I hate subsidies
I hate subsidies
I hate subsidies

 No.25552

this game fucking sucks and that's okay because a dedicated team of autists are making an open source vicky 2

 No.25553

>>25552
>thinking vicky2 is better than vicky3
Vicky3 has problems, but it's nowhere near as janky and broken as vicky2. Vicky3's economy doesn't just permanently shit itself midgame for everyone except the great powers because it literally just runs out of resources.

Some of the systems in Vicky3 are just a straight upgrade over Vicky2. Take Westernization.

Vicky2: "Uncivilized" nations are populated by a bunch of ill tempered chimps that hate it when you give them roads, schools and land reforms that pulls them out of feudal serfdom because it goes against muh old ways. Your nation will sit permanently at near-maximum turmoil until these semi-human baboons fully embrace "Westernization" mentally and spiritually, at which point they suddenly see why not being a illiterate serf forever is actually a good thing and the turmoil vanishes. The only way around this is to embrace muh old ways and essentially trick your population into Westernizing, but it will take you the whole goddamn game to do so because your research will now trickle in at an absolute snail's pace. There is nothing you can do while you're Westernizing other than Westernize, it's a 100% waiting simulator.

Vicky3: As an "unrecognized" nation, you're a bit behind the times technologically and have a very antiquated government, typically dominated by an entrenched landowner interest group which completely dominates the state. The game revolves around slowly dicking over the landowners to get the reforms you need to modernize and eventually have a standoff with the Western powers to gain recognition.

 No.25558

>>25553
so meiji japan lol

 No.25559

>>25553
I dunno, Westernization (as poorly as it is framed) does make a lot of historical sense, with a lot of the lower and middle classes having a very clear realization of the prospects of capitalism leading to the loss of their societal position and monetary security leading them to want to revolt against its implementation, like a much more militant version of the Luddites. It's just that no Paradox game has any real way to model social unrest outside of open rebellion - which is especially funny considering its the fucking Victorian era, with the emergence of socialism, unions, strike-actions, ect. In Vicky 3 its just a single class of landholders which you oppose which is pretty ahistorical - craftsmen and upper-class but not landholding peasantry also had investment in the existing system and sought to uphold it, which shows how completely inflexible their "class but no politics" system is. The monolithic traits of a class in a given time completely determine their political outcomes when in reality there are always going to be multiple groups with different, conflicting interests even within the same class, something Vicky 2 models better. Also, you can speed up westernization through war, every conquest of another state brings you a lot of knowledge of westernization.

But really, the whole "Vicky 2 vs Vicky 3" discussion is retarded because everyone is comparing an idealized, modded Victoria 2 against Victoria 3, when in reality both Victoria 2 and Victoria 3 are pretty shit and are only redeemed in any real way through community modding efforts.
>>25558
Yeah, it seems like "Westernization" is heavily based around the Asian experience of it. You gotta remember that in Victoria 2 basegame there are incredibly few unwesternized nations. In Africa you have all of N. Africa and Arabia, then the Sokoto Caliphate, Ethiopia, Madagascar, and Zulu. In Asia you have the Qing + their substates, Japan, Punjab, various Indian minors (all with the same flavor), Korea, and a few SEA states. After that, there are very few uncivs - releasables like the Cherokee nation, Syria and Crimea, Hawaii, and some other small states. I'm almost certain there are more Westernized nations in the game than non-Westernized.

 No.25696

>>25552 (moi)
It's happening https://fbi.gov/CX24sxsc


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