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I now understand why mega cities in fiction are so interesting, why I love darktide and necromunda, why the chalice dungeons from blood borne were so uniquely appealing, why the original doom games always hit different level design wise than the newer instalments, and why I love blame!.

Let’s be honest. There’s nothing more fun in gaming than navigating your way through a massive underground tunnel system where you solve puzzles, walk through impossibly large geofronts, and learn the mysteries of a subterranean structure made of nothing but raw stone and steel. Labyrinths are what people really want out of dungeon crawlers. No one cares about the loot. No one really enters Skyrim’s caves for the armour or weapons. They all want to see the dwarves artifacts and unique locations. They want to explore everything the dungeon offers.

Labyrinths are what make the forever winter fun. The mech trenches wouldn’t stick out as some one of the most fun levels in all of gaming were not for the massive complexes hidden within the trench walls. The original LoZ games are like 99% dungeon crawling and 1% horseback riding until you find Ganon. The entirety of rain worlds map is really just one massive labyrinth.

a labyrinth but it is a biggieblackiecockie

>skyrim dungeons
>labyrinthine
lol lmao

But on a serious note, yeah people like exploring the space and solving puzzles. Navigational puzzles are among the easiest game mechanics to create and the most intuitive challenges to grasp. There's a reason platformers and such are so common and popular. This isn't exclusive to video games though; TTRPGs have often been heavy on maze like structure and players mapping them. RIP Jennelle Jaquays btw.

>>40600
God I wish a procedural dungeon crawler like daggerfall came out today it would hit like the blame comics did

>>40602
Probably doable to make the Jaquays method into an algorithm tbh.

>>40600
>vid
this type of streamlining and "puzzlification" is why all games feel sterile and unoriginal now. if you are a hobbyist you don't have to follow this lowest common denominator bullshit, and if you are a consumer you will eventually find the infantilization restrictive and repetitive

>>40581
the original labyrinth was a reference to the minoan palaces that had grown over time into very complex structures. the point is that they are human constructions where the combination of simple parts and principles produced over time something beyond human comprehension. the person traversing the labyrinth might acquire some understanding about their surroundings, but never of the whole. there is no puzzle in them, the entries and exits are irrelevant, what matters is the feeling of historical disorientation

but why do you keep making these shit threads

>>40604
You’re assuming I post often. I only post about new Vegas. The baldurs gate threads, total war shenanigans and other shit wasn’t me

>>40605
You also make all those threads complaining about this and that feature in shooters don't you? I'm pretty sure you make most every thread I see in the overboard from this board. Hey at least you get some discussions going on this dead board.

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>>40606
I made one thread about necromunda sucking for not being an RPG. relax.

Anyways, I made a little thing in minecraft to illustrate an idea I had about labyrinth design and it is proportions. In real life, a lot of the (well built anyways) infrastructure that people use is normally scaled in proportion to the size of a real person and how much that person is expected to move. Coincidentally, good buildings are also scaled based on the number of people expected to use them. Unfortunately, building proportionately appropriate buildings is highly expensive, but in games, you get a feeling of freedom that is uniquely rare to games like boltgun, cube world, the chalice dungeons from bloodborne were well scaled, and I think from the original thief.

I think these images illustrate what a proportionately sized labyrinth should look like. The structure is convulted, but it perfectly meets the size needs of the player exploring through it.

>>40604
>this type of streamlining and "puzzlification" is why all games feel sterile and unoriginal now.
The video is about doing the exact opposite of streamlining, adding additional things to make exploring more interesting.

>>40606
Yeah he does, he is easy to spot.

>>40614
<generic guidelines
<to achieve well known effects
>exact opposite of streamlining
wtf. besides, it doesn't work, I don't think any sensible person would consider that really exploring or interesting

I think the best example of a labyrinth in a videogame is space station 13. not just the map or the game mechanics, but the entire thing, from the proprietary engine with undocumented features, the open source game, the branching versions and descendants, the horizontal exchange of content and ideas between branches, the layers of legacy code, the evolving rulesets, the balancing approaches, etc. etc.

it's like a man-made fractal of branching rabbit holes

>>40607
>I made one thread about necromunda sucking for not being an RPG. relax.
Nah, you make all those threads talking about this and that in shooters. I know because you do the same thing in your Fallout threads. Bro this board is literally like your blog at this point.

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>>40625
Probably most of the threads in the image are yours but these are the most obvious.

>>40626
Oh yeah, I see what you mean. The only thing you highlight wrong was the Ak thing. Otherwise, I make those things for discussion when I’m modding new Vegas for development reasons. Sometimes I get something useful information on level design or modules out of them if it helps clarify things more

>>40629
>The only thing you highlight wrong was the Ak thing.
Yeah I thought that was wrong after I posted, I circled it without reading what it said. Yeah, you're giving live to a dead board, just pointing out you make a lot of threads.

>>40630
K

>>40631
Yeah you and chihuaha because you guys are both interested in game dev so that makes sense. I think you should try using a real engine instead of modding. Modding is probably the worst way to really learn game dev. You're just pulling hairs to try to achieve what is so simple if you use an actual game engine where you can program whatever you want and nothing is hardcoded into the game.

>>40632
Also you'll learn how a game actually works. You're never going to learn that from modding. Do you even understand what the tick is?

And forgive me from being overly critical of you, but I notice a lot of this "critic syndrome" if I may call it. People that have no idea how the sausage is made trying to make all these wild assertions about the process and this and that like an expert. You can't be the expert on shit unless you do it yourself.

>>40634
Like imagine being a sex expert who never had sex.

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>>40635
It's like imagining because you watched a 1000 porners you're an expert on having sex. Nah dude, you're an expert at gooning.

>>40634
Hyperconsumers are in the end still experts in consuming a specific thing. Ideally game developers should consult some of them on specific aspects of the gameplay and there are genres like shooting games that couldn't sustain themselves without a tight relationship between devs and players.

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>>40637
>Hyperconsumers are in the end still experts in consuming a specific thing. Ideally game developers should consult some of them on specific aspects of the gameplay and there are genres like shooting games that couldn't sustain themselves without a tight relationship between devs and players.
No I don't discount the voice of the consumer at all. The consumer is king. It's all for the consumer. I'm just saying when these critics get "critic syndrome" and think they're actually experts on the production process. When they start talking out their ass about technical things.

>>40638
Armchair generals in another analogy.

'minds me an anecdote of Steven King talking about rock critics. He said he was organizing some event with top rock critics from Rolling Stone and etc. and he had an idea where they would play some tune on kazoo, and none of these people could hold a tune to save their life. Imagine trying to claim you're an expert on music and you're tone deaf kek. That's what I mean by critic syndrome. My teacher used to always say "opinions are like feet, we all have them and they all stink."

>>40640
So if you can't do, the depth of your opinion is truly:
>I like
<I don't like
And that is certainly valid. People put works out into the world to be liked or disliked. But your opinion is as deep as the million other consumers. Consumer opinions only matter as a collective, each individual consumer opinion is worthless.

>>40581
I disagree


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