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File: 1608525528104.gif (385.59 KB, 640x480, dwarf_blacksmith_by_vertib….gif)

 No.1195[View All]

Often when when talking about leftist fiction, it is in relation to speculative science fiction.I'd like to have a thread to discuss not only fantasy with leftist themes, but fantasy in general.So, read any good fantasy recently?
178 posts and 62 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.12233

>>12223
I wasn't saying anon is racist, but the people anon is talking about are racist. Liberals who think that any gross subhuman image is automatically anti-Semitic are basically saying they think Jews look like vampires/goblins/whatever. The trope of an uncannily human monster is extremely old and has plenty of examples where it's unrelated to Jews. Even putting that aside, in responding to the idea expressed in that pic, the libs are saying that racism is bad, but they validate the false premise that vampires are inspired by Jews.
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 No.12236

>>12226
>>12233
If you think pointing out someone is racist is racist in itself you're silly.
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 No.12240

>>12236
Pointing out REAL racism is not racist. Projecting racism onto something that is not actually racist is racist however. Orcs being the most commonly discussed example (including in this thread), where liberal virtue-signalers whine about it being about "muh Black people" even though Tolkien not only was anti-racist and hated Hitler for co-opting North European folkore, but also denied them being anything close to such an allegory (an idea he detested in the first place). Hell, Orcs don't even make sense as African-Americans given that in many ways they would be far closer to portraying a stereotype of Mongoloids and East Europe, an idea he also denied.

The same applies to vampires; as I explained, the Jewish 'features' are projected onto vampires, first by Nazis who took the medieval idea of Blood Libel and connected it to their metaphors about Jews sucking the life out of Germany. This is despite the two concepts existing for long times separately and within multiple cultures (especially Jewish ones) featuring vampiric monsters in their legends. Liberals are just picking it up from the other end of the spectrum.

2 sides of the same coin essentially.
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 No.12258

>>12236
If you see a vampire and think "Jew" or an orc and thing "black people" you are the one who's racist.
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 No.12266

>>12240
>>12258
>Tolkien the well known racist and pro-colonialism didnt actually mean orcs to be an allegory of black people
you guys dumb as fuck lmfao
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 No.12269

>>12266
>the well known racist and pro-colonialism
you're retarded as fuck. >>11779
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 No.12275

>>12266
>Tolkien
>allegory
nigga…
&lt“I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history – true or feigned– with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.”
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 No.12285

>>12266
>black people is more industrial and the whitoid barbaric
>black people is an evolutionary step forward from whites
Based if true.
But seriously though, you must be a dumbass to think the orcs being anything other than Tolkien monkey brained hatred for modern industrial capitalism.
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 No.12300

>>12285
>[orcs] is an evolutionary step forward from whites
I missed this part of the story.
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 No.12306

>>12269
wow a retarded social media meme, i have been proven wrong

reminder tolkien was explicitly against race mixing and he even shoved that into his books
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 No.12337

>>12285
>hurr muh black supremacy is totally ok because 'fugg de whitey!'
Sakaism >>>/out/
>Tolkien monkey brained hatred for modern industrial capitalism
The guy was an idealist who experienced war, racism and the disgusting results of industrial capitalism and therefore longed for simple peaceful life without such complex things. He was a writer, not a politician and therefore his idealism is merely his lament of that. I hardly see this as a bad thing. While I am by far no Tolkienist or agree with his political ideas, his literature and statements are inoffensive in the least, especially compared to twits like Ayn Rand, Terry Goodkind, H.P. Lovecraft and George Orwell.

>>12306
>muh meme
&ltdoesn't pay attention to the links pointing to posts on Tolkien's hatred for Hitler and racism.
&ltDoesn't pay attention to Tolkien's dislike for allegorical bullshit.
Ok skimreader
>muh books no racemixing
Bitch where? Just because the elves are pretentious pricks about Orcs and others doesn't mean shit. FFS Orcs are - in the lore of the story - elves corrupted by the wiles of Sauron. This is based on the inspiration for Orcs themselves, being forest demons and dark counterparts of elves in North European mythology, from people who, at the time of creating said elves were 99% unaware of black people.
>explicitly against
BITCH WHERE? I don't recall this in any of this works.
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 No.12339

>>12306
>tolkien was explicitly against race mixing and he even shoved that into his books
The human king marries and elf lol.
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 No.13231

So what are the origins of the average fantasy wizards? As in them being mostly normal people who have the power to cast wide variety of spells?
I realize that the source is once again Tolkien if I had to guess, but he had to get the idea from somewhere, right? But from my knowledge of folklore, nothing akin to them really existed before Tolkien. You had more pagan folklore, but spells there were far more just mortals tampering with the spiritual / godly world (so more like fantasy priests or druids), or the creatures doing magic being godly themselves. Then with Christian folklore spells seem to be far more just very specific and usually evil enchantments, eg most of Brothers Grimm stuff, or just works of Satan. So what are the origins of the stereotypical DnD Mage, who has a wast access to diverse powers and little reliance on anything other than their own proficiency?
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 No.13233

>>13231
>So what are the origins of the stereotypical DnD Mage, who has a wast access to diverse powers and little reliance on anything other than their own proficiency?
Merlin? He's closer than Gandalf at least. Gandalf is an actual angel who just takes a human shape (being inspired partly by Odin's wanderer disguise). Merlin is said to be born of demonic ancestry, though, so more like a sorcerer than a wizard in that context.
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 No.13713

Bump, this thread is good
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 No.13714

Dwarves are pretty cool
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 No.13716

>>13233

Depends on what kind of wizard you're talking about. Modern fantasy wizards are either mystical hermits or the equivalent of university students, taking years of their lives to study magic.

In modern fantasy magic is essentially science that different magic users channel and understand in different ways. Wizards, sorcerers, essentially and primary magic users are the most enlightened because they don't just blindly channel magic, they actually understand how it works and where it comes from.
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 No.13731

File: 1610373353357.webm (366.03 KB, 496x256, Harry and Voldemort condu….webm)

>>13716
>In modern fantasy magic is essentially science
Is it ? Look at that video, presumably Harry and Voldemort are boffins conducting an experiment. What kind of natural phenomenon does it represent?
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 No.13735

>>13731

I think anon meant in theory. Harry potter literally takes place a school where the mechanics of magic are explained at length.
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 No.13741

>>13731
>What kind of natural phenomenon does it represent?
my dick in ur ass
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 No.13742

File: 1610438519755.jpeg (17.3 KB, 474x402, help.jpeg)

>>13731
NTA but lightning.
>>13741
help mods ther eis an asshole on ftrongpage
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 No.13747

>>13735
>I think anon meant in theory. Harry potter literally takes place a school where the mechanics of magic are explained at length.
Maybe i'm a blithering idiot making a fool out of my self because I've forgotten the trivia from a fantasy world but isn't Hogwarts a school for special magical people ? Wizards have to learn how to use their powers, but Muggles aren't magical creatures and can't learn how to use magic no matter how much they study.. You don't need to be a scientific creature to learn and use science.
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 No.13748

>>13747
Not a HP fan but isn't Hermione like super good at magic?
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 No.13749

>>13747
>>13748
Yeah, I think Muggles are more uninformed than unable.
I'm not sure if the science and magic in fantasy is really comparable, if you mean scientific method…. actually scrap that. Science in films is usually magic based on a true story.
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 No.13763

>>13748
I thought the being good at magic gene could be atavistic and thus not show up for a while when a special magic wizard man fucks a dirty humanoid.
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 No.13771

>>13749
Do I understand you correctly ? You are saying that films don't show science at all. They show secular magic when they mean science, and they show fantasy magic when they mean magic.
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 No.13792

>>13747
Magic in HP is a bit weird because you have to have innate ability and you have to study at length to learn how to use it.

>>13748
Hermione has the magic gene or whatever it is that lets her do magic. She's not a muggle, just her parents are. It's unclear if there's something like a recessive gene or whatever but some magic users are born to muggles and some non-magic users are born to magic-users. It's kind of implied that having a scientific or muggle-oriented approach to magic is actually helpful, because people like Hermione or Arthur Weasley get good results thanks to their curiosity and experimentation.
>>13763
Yes except it doesn't seem to have anything to do with blood purity. IIRC there was somebody from a pureblood family with no magic. One of the Black family I think. One of Harry's neighbors is also a squib (which is how the books introduce the idea), and so is Filch.

>>13749
>Yeah, I think Muggles are more uninformed than unable.
No, they are 100% unable, as are the "squibs" who are born to wizard families but can't do magic. You need the mojo to be able to do magic at all. How good a study you are just influences your aptitude.
>I'm not sure if the science and magic in fantasy is really comparable, if you mean scientific method
HP plays with that. The wizard world uses antiquated technology (Harry's first year is 1991-1992) and supposedly certain more modern technology malfunctions in areas with a lot of magic like Hogwartz (although that could be a spell that does that intentionally). One of the themes of the story is that the wizards are kind of backward because they're insular and think they're superior to muggles and ignore their technology. Like there's the bit where Arthur Weasley got bit by the magic snake and wizard medicine wasn't able to help him but muggle medicine worked. Most wizards also don't seem to have a deep understanding of magic and how it works, but just say the words and do the gestures to make stuff happen, so their understanding of magic isn't scientific at all really.
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 No.13803

>>13792
>>13792
>Most wizards also don't seem to have a deep understanding of magic and how it works, but just say the words and do the gestures to make stuff happen, so their understanding of magic isn't scientific at all really.
Is it even possible to write a universe in which magic can be studied and explained scientifically?
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 No.13837

>>13803
It would just be medieval sci-fi then.
Which would be a cool as shit concept.
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 No.15198

>>4147
I guess the best way would be to make your own fictional cultures from scratch as realistically as possible. I imagine that it would take an immense amount of effort though.
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 No.15199

>>15198
Sorry, meant for >>4298
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 No.15200

File: 1618696167075.jpg (46.12 KB, 786x776, c29.jpg)

>>4147
Sounds hot
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 No.17065

>>13803
thats what magic realism is, to write a story in wich magic and fantasy are treated as normal everyday stuff that doesnt surprise people. latinoamericans have been doing this since the 50s
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 No.17083

>>15200
thanks, currently fapping to lower left
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 No.17564

Anyone else hyped for The Green Knight? It looks like it's gonna be something special
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 No.17632

>>17564
looks pretty kino, very refreshing in the age of GoT ripoffs
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 No.17637

>>17564
>another tale glorifying the hired thugs of the feudal system
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 No.17661

>>17637

It's an adaptation of a 13th century poem, plus it aint like King Arthur's knights acted anything like real knights did, they were more like the Superheros of their day than anything else

>>17632

Yeah I really miss 80's style fantasy so my interest piqued when I saw the trailer and saw how not-GOT it looks
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 No.17933

File: 1626335371402.jpg (34.91 KB, 856x482, boorman-excalibur-arthur-d….jpg)

Anyone ever see Excalibur by John Borman? Fucking classic of fun trippy fantasy (miss me with fantasy that aims for "realism", shit never works
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 No.17935

>>17637
Imagine being such a pathetically unimaginative twat that you can't detach actual history from the time-period context of a fictional legend telling a story. You're like one of those insufferable cunts who thinks they're smart by going around and saying Santa isn't real on Christmas, just to spoil the fun.
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 No.18103

File: 1626759551296.png (316.45 KB, 605x568, Screenshot (37).png)

Early review looks pretty good
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 No.18110

>>18103
>Eyes Wide Shut of knight movies
What did he mean by this
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 No.18142

>>18110

>haha movie is weiiirdddd
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 No.18182

File: 1626923869094.webm (499.15 KB, 254x262, get a life.webm)

>>18103
>as soon as it was over I watched it again
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 No.18619

The Green Knight was dope af, you should see it
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 No.18620

>>18619
okay I will see it
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 No.18621

>>18182
Jay's laugh got geniunely evil and spiteful lmao
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 No.18660

>>18619
okay i will not see it
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 No.18676

>>18619
I can't fucking find it anywhere for some reason, send link pls?
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 No.18678

>>1196
>fucking transition and site-redirect from bunkerchan to leftypol has fucked up formatting and deleted several posts
Why the fuck did you people take down Bunkerchan instead of leaving it up as a backup mirror?!

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