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 No.16134[View All]

What do you think of the Solarpunk literary genre? I find it very interesting, not only because I find the aesthetics very attractive, but also because it is openly anti-capitalist and has a very strong ideological content.
But I would like to know what /leftypol/ thinks.

Do you find a Solarpunk society the ideal society?anarcho-communismAnarcho-Communism
82 posts and 35 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.33382

>>33380
Hmm yeah the idea of collapsing birth rates continuing might work. Like the opposite of Malthusianism lol.

>>33381
>How is this any different than nearly every recent-ish anarchist group ever?
You are asking why bending over backward to make an inappropriate term make sense yields kind of stupid results. There's nothing necessarily anarchist about solarpunk.

 No.33383

>>33376
There's nothing wrong with that per se, but the alignment of boulevards down to yes, the placement of trees, have historically been used by city planners to justify discriminatory policies! Just look at the confluence of the 'City Beautiful' and 'Progressive' movements during the rise of Jim Crow here in America! I'm tried of being met with a chorus of impressionable people yelling, "What's so bad about trees?!" when, to treat them charitably, they likely haven't dug beyond introductory readings on social ecology and the right to the city to begin with.
>>33377
>Smoking some might make you care enough to do something about it.
I'm more into amphetamines if I'm being honest; which is funny seeing how much I think Solarpunk is Hitlerite nonsense at worse.
>Or maybe people are noticing the effects humans are having on nature
You're forget that America has long, storied history of utopian communal experiments under its belt and any political project (socialist and otherwise) with as lofty aims as Solarpunk will almost certainly, unfortunately, revert back to that state. Americans need to reckon with with the legacies of Owen, Rapp and Amana
>and want to make dealing with that a major plank of future political projects.
I'll have uhh, one Green Five Year Plan please. Maybe a reconstituted Civilian Conservation Climate Corps on the side, with college student conscripts wearing Adidas track suit uniforms or something.

 No.33384

>>33383
Wtf does any of that have to do with solarpunk. Yes I'm aware that richer neighbourhoods are usually more leafy and green, that's because those qualities are desirable, therefore maybe we should extend them to everyone??

 No.33385

>>33382
>There's nothing necessarily anarchist about solarpunk.
People have been bending over backwards trying to make the case for Solarpunk as a political project for almost a decade. They absolutely want us to think it's anarchism. They have wanted us think it's the Kurdish experiment in Northern Syria, and even Exarcheia. As the climate crisis deepens, any 21st century anarchist movement will be coded as Solarpunk. Seeing at how the subgenre hasn't produced a foundational work yet, that has been its lasting impact (to me anyway).

 No.33387

>>33385
>Exarcheia
Someone linked me this Andrewism video recently and he cites just that. It's an alright video, but personally I think it's insufficiency Marxist in analysis of the city. He spends more time quoting Bookchin verbatim than talking about, I dunno, rent or property.

 No.33388

>>33383
>but the alignment of boulevards down to yes, the placement of trees, have historically been used by city planners to justify discriminatory policies!
capitalists used urban planning to discriminate against people before
therefore trees are bad

 No.33389

>>33387
*insufficiently, fuck

 No.33390

>>33388
look if you're satisfied with new urbanist / yimby shit like "more trees = good" and "more market rate housing = good" then quit whatever socialist org you're in and join your local chamber of commerce; i don't know what else to say

 No.33391

File: 1680144577799.png (316.45 KB, 1244x524, Eco-Stalinism.png)

>>33385
>People have been bending over backwards trying to make the case for Solarpunk as a political project for almost a decade. They absolutely want us to think it's anarchism.
Yes, people will try to make the case that appealing things are related to their politics.
>As the climate crisis deepens, any 21st century anarchist movement will be coded as Solarpunk
Why is that anarchist specifically? Why not solarpunk Stalinism?

 No.33392

>>33390
Yeah solarpunk is definitely "more market rate housing and trees in rich streets"

 No.33393

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>>33391
>Yes, people will try to make the case that appealing things are related to their politics.
I don't think Cyberpunk suffered from that within its first 15 years at least.. It wouldn't be until the 'Post-Cyberpunk' era of the 90s did Silicon Valley techies mistake satire for sincerity.
>Why is that anarchist specifically? Why not solarpunk Stalinism?
Well it just speaks to the state of the left in the global north and its historical relationship to environmentalism ig since Marx and Engels' time. As much I like the sound of Eco-Stalinism, we barely have Eco-Leninism formulated and made palatable yet.

 No.33394

>>33392
Okay, you understand how laughably easy it is to greenwash Solarpunk as its currently theorized as a political project. Good.

 No.33405

>>16158
>omg a women with dyed hair im gonna shit the bed now !!!

 No.33406

>>33383
interestingly in some cities there also now exists a disparity in trees and some types of plant life in general with more affluent areas having more trees and older trees.

This ofc means working class areas dont get any of the benefits associated with trees such >biodiversity
>erosion control
>reduced heating/cooling costs
>positive mental health benefit from plant life/green spaces
>shade(which other than being good for pedestrians can reduce UV ray damage to concrete and asphalt)
>some trees are very good at reducing air pollution

urban heat island bad tree good

 No.33407

>>33406
Another big one is controlling water. More vegetation absorbs more water (and slows the flow) which reduces flooding.

 No.33410

>>24652
luv this channel

 No.33424

The biggest thing I fault "solarpunk" for is that it's utopian communism. We've already been through this and thinking about future societies while ignoring development is ridiculous. Solarpunk is a fantasy based on real world scientific understanding on the development of agriculture and other forms of working the soil in more sustainable systems. Things like permaculture and there is another one I think which is kind of new and based on real research which is sustainable especially for feeding local populations and making alot smaller the necessity of large scale agriculture for export. This isn't solarpunk, this is science and isn't based on some fantasy of the future but something we can do right now.

 No.33425

>>33410
Here's another recommendation.

 No.34326

Interesting thread about the titular greenwashed 'Solarpunk' skyscraper.

https://twitter.com/GeorgeMorgan13/status/1662753635166560256?t=33k-PFIQXnxnt3inPk2qeQ&s=19

 No.34327

>>34326
stone bros stay winning lmao >>24631

 No.34328

>>34326
>concrete buildings
😑
>concrete buildings with TREES IN THEM
🤯 WAAOOOOW
>>34327
the people complaining about >>24631 being ugly are like libs going le depressing soviet architecture. just slap some paint on them if it's so ugly
function trumps form every day. formfags are and always will be libs

 No.34346

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>>34328
Bosco Verticale also weirdly comes up every time people talk about "Brutalism with trees" which is just hilarious. Unless it looks like Alt-Erlaa I sleep.
>>34328
Peter Barber's output has interesting formal qualities too! His sketch/draft work clearly takes inspiration from ancient Middle Eastern cities like Shibam.

 No.34347

>>34346
I just find the concept of building stuff from cut stone rather than concrete interesting. why don't we do that more? is cutting limestone particularly expensive? while not as strong as reinforced concrete you can compensate for that with more limestone, no? this is assuming granite is impractical to work with, but maybe diamond saws make it practical

 No.34348

>>34347
Stone isn't very recyclable or renewable is it?

 No.34352

>>34348
we're not running out of bedrock anon, and any stone used gets turned into new stone over geological time. plus used stone can be crushed into gravel

 No.34354

>>34347
>why don't we do that more? is cutting limestone particularly expensive?
I imagine it's very expensive to transport and assemble? Much of the contemporary construction industry relies heavily on de-skilled workers to assemble prefab structures on-site. We could, in theory, have buildings made up almost entirely of prefab stone/brick wall panels for example, but that would require having the necessary tools, logistical outlay and access to materials that we either no longer have, or just don't have the will to do.

 No.34355

>>34354
but you could cut stone into standardized shapes

 No.34356

>>34355
derp I only read half your post. yeah probably suitable MoPs have to be developed

 No.34359

>>34347
Concrete is more uniform, and adding more mass isn't always a good option.

 No.34360

>>34359
the point is that you don't need to waste energy on calcinating limestone to make cement. while the CO2 emitted does get reabsorbed eventually, the coal used in calcination adds extra CO2

 No.34364

>>34360
But still you can't really use masonry for everything, as an example pile foundations would require massive amounts of digging if not for concrete. You should ask an expert about it, like if doing a lot of extra work to avoid burning lime is worth it.

 No.34365

>>34364
that it a question that is only possible to answer under a global system of planning

 No.34366

Solarpunk is unironically fascist.

 No.34399

>>34366
As opposed to ironically fascist?

 No.34505


 No.40754

File: 1711524558453.png (487.28 KB, 593x582, ClipboardImage.png)


 No.40755

>>40754
This is not Reddit; if you have nothing to post other than stale bait screenshotted from other sites, you should just fuck off.

 No.40768

>>16134
eco-fascists gargabe

 No.40769

>renewable energy and green space in cities is fascism
the fatsocs are still malding about this and bumping this thread?

 No.40813

>>40769
There's nothing inherently wrong with those things, but why's it called solar punk and why is it rooted in Tumblr scifi and consumerism (seen here >>16171 )

 No.40816

>>40813
>but why's it called solar punk
It's like cyberpunk… But with no punk… and with barely any cyber… You know, people used to call that "utopian fiction" back in the day.

It's like with goblincore, it has nothing to do with hardcore punk or even hardcore techno but normies like to appropriate le funni suffixes to sound cool without understanding what they mean. It's not even Goblin Slayer porn.

 No.40817

>>40813
>>40816
It's like steampunk and dieselpunk, you can blame them for following trends but it's not like they invented it. I don't know about goblincore but maybe it is a play on cottagecore? Idk where the "core" stuff comes from, but it does not have to do anything with music. The "punk" in cyberpunk does not have any direct connection to music either, it's just a word for young troublemaker.

 No.40821

Zero material analysis, purely vibes based, nothing about stopping imperialism.

It's settler socialism.

 No.40831

>>40821
It's a style, not a political theory.

 No.40840


 No.40842

>>40840
>my ideology? le cool aesthetics of course!
lmao is this drivel supposed to prove the other poster wrong??

 No.40843

>>40842
there's nothing wrong with cool aesthetics. or unsocialist for that matter

 No.40844

>>40840
https://medium.com/solarpunks/on-the-political-dimensions-of-solarpunk-c5a7b4bf8df4
Engaging prose, meh content.
<It is a dark truth of environmentalism that wind farms, solar arrays, hydroelectric dams and other triumphs of sustainability require completely engineered landscapes. Building them means ripping up the ground and installing massive amounts of metal and concrete.
I agree that's true but I don't see what's dark about it.
<In light of their power, overthrowing the mega-rich is a dicey project, and one perhaps left to a different kind of political aesthetic. Instead solarpunk can challenge the capitalist status quo by nurturing alternative economic arrangements at a community and network level. Encourage resiliency that insulates towns and neighborhoods from economic shocks. Forge mutal aid pacts that protect members from fiscal predation. If we can prove that we don’t need them or their money, the chokehold of the plutocracy will loosen.
Without freely available land, how would that work? I don't need the landlord in the sense that I don't need that person to exist for the house to exist, but I must pay rent to a landlord and there is no practical way of sneaking out of this except for a tiny minority. The only thing that could do away with landlords is class struggle. There is a lot in the text about doing this or that in a sneaky way (growing food on land you don't own), all of these have to be niche activities or they cease being sneaky.
>debt jubilee
>tax on extreme wealth
>the regulation or even abolition of usury
Not gonna happen without taking state power.
<vertical farms
Inefficient.
<As Vaclav Havel explained: “Hope is definitely not the same thing as optimism. It is not the conviction that something will turn out well, but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out.” Havel, an artist turned activist turned statesman who led his nation out of a time of crisis, in many ways embodies the transformational power of ideas and aesthetics — and thus the potential of a movement like solarpunk to do real good in the world.
Strange source of inspiration. Coming from an ultra-rich family of real-estate moguls, Havel was unsurprisingly pro-capitalist. Havel was also for expansion of NATO into Eastern Europe and was in favor of the NATO attack on Yugoslavia and the Iraq war.

This was the most serious text. The other two have barely anything to say.
https://solarpunkmagazine.com/what-would-a-solarpunk-government-look-like/
<Solarpunk has a lot of dreams for a future we’d like to live in. Cultural and racial diversity
Diversity isn't good or bad in itself so I don't see the point of having a pro or anti diversity position.
<Isn’t there room in solarpunk for imagining, not a nanny state, but a state whose honest purpose is to support people to live the best, most meaningful lives as possible?
Which government would not say that about itself? Super lame article. The comment by Joel Spector is more interesting. He shills for proxy voting that can be redelegated at any time (calling it Positive Proxy, it's usually called Liquid Democracy) and that laws should expire. Though I don't know how Spector got the idea that German law is some sort of open-source process (Reichsgerift isn't a proper German word btw.), it appears to be an online hobby project and not something that politicians actually look at.
https://www.re-des.org/es/a-solarpunk-manifesto/
<it avoids steampunk’s potentially quasi-reactionary tendencies
Ah yes, very important point. I was going to throw my support behind the steampunk party (they also have a strong presence in my union), but now…

For calling yourselves solar you punks have produced a lot of coal :P If you solarpunks vibe with what you call anti-authoritarian socialism, my advice is to stop shlicking to that yogurt commercial and seek out the Parecon people.

 No.40845

>>40843
>unsocialist
lmfao its neither socialist nor unsocialist, its just baby shit for petit bourgeois with too much spare time

 No.40957

>>40840
Who's gonna mine the material needed for the solar panels?
>Anarch-hobbit
Austin TX ass ideology


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