>>25966>prime directive is pure collectivist nonsense that utterly rejects the value and struggle of the individual
lol i'd like to see individual struggle against meteor
>>18796>It always bothered me how In The Pale Moonlight was resolved. I know it's considered one of the best DS9 episodes, but it's literally Sisko doing an American-style false flag and justifying it to himself in the end.
On the one hand, it's a really fascinating episode that's fun to argue over. It has some great acting on the part of Brooks. In some respects it kind of seems like a continuation of the episode The Most Toys where Data resolves in the end to shoot his kidnapper, because he reasons that letting him live would just lead to more pain and suffering later on, then he lies about it when the Enterprise intervenes at the last second.
On the other hand, it definitely does seem to fly in the face of the ethos of Star Trek. Sisko's actions might be justified from a utilitarian standpoint, but it seems like by that point ST had pretty firmly settled into the idea that the ends don't justify the means. Yeah, he was successful in bringing the Romulans into the war on the Federation's side, billions of lives would be saved, billions more would be rescued from the tyranny of the Dominion, but it does do damage to the Federation's credibility as being an advanced society beyond that sort of thing, and makes the idea of Section 31 all the more plausible and firmly insinuates that poison worm into ST's utopian apple.
>>25975>On the other hand, it definitely does seem to fly in the face of the ethos of Star Trek. Sisko's actions might be justified from a utilitarian standpoint, but it seems like by that point ST had pretty firmly settled into the idea that the ends don't justify the means. Yeah, he was successful in bringing the Romulans into the war on the Federation's side, billions of lives would be saved, billions more would be rescued from the tyranny of the Dominion, but it does do damage to the Federation's credibility as being an advanced society beyond that sort of thing, and makes the idea of Section 31 all the more plausible and firmly insinuates that poison worm into ST's utopian apple.
I think the most intriguing part is that this gives Star Trek a very "materialist" basis. TNG was set in an era of peace, no major power was vastly superior than the other. Then comes DS9, and the imperialist presence of the Dominion threatens the entire existence of the Federation. As a result, the Federation is forced to make hard decisions that may or may not agree with Starfleet's peaceful, diplomatic mantra. It is easy to be a saint in paradise, as Sisko said. It is not too dissimilar to how entrenched the USSR became under the targeted eyes of the entire world during its conception. It even makes more sense when Sloan said Section 31 was conceived during the Federation's earliest beginnings, possibly an era of turmoil and vulnerability when it *needed* such an organization (I've never watched Enterprise so idk how accurate this is.)
DS9 benefits greatly from not being preachy the way TNG sometimes was. It makes these elements a lot stronger because it forces you to actually engage with the ideas and think about things to come away with your own opinion, because what you get from the show are conflicting ideas from obviously biased characters.
I never felt TNG was overtly preachy, at least in a scale that bothered me, in fact I recall DS9 having horribly liberal episodes sometimes moreso than TNG. I think it had something to do with me viewing the Federation as basically space USSR that won over world capitalism, and any successful, interstellar socialist society has the right to be preachy. But if you see the Federation as just the American "liberal and humanist" ideal but into practice I would definitely feel a bit annoyed by it.
I haven't seen all of Ent, but I guess they were dealing with some "Temporal Cold War" shit as the super future Federation came into conflict with some other evil time empire, and the Federation sent back an operative to try and keep the timeline intact.
I guess I could see the need for something like Section 31 before the Federation really got going, especially since the Vulcans and Andorrians had their own secret intelligence operations going on. I think that Section 31 not getting resolved in DS9 though leaves some unfortunate implications though, especially when it was revealed that Star Fleet Command and the Federation Council (iirc) were all in on it. It would be one thing if it were something that came into existence because of the Borg or Dominion, but the whole "yeah we've been around since the beginning of the Federation" etc really undermines the whole "we're a more advanced society and we're above that sort of thing" thing.
How realistic would a secret spy agency in a star trek setting really be ?
Currently a lot of spy agency activity gets found out by regular people having suspicions and investigating with very simple means. Once people get their hands on trek tech, hiding a spy agency might not be feasible anymore.
I think the biggest thing in Section 31's favor is that no one in the Federation outside of the cliques already in the know at SFC and TFC are actually looking for them. Although it does seem like groups like the Tal Shiar or Obsidian Order should have had some
idea, especially when you have SF goody-goodies like Bashir that blab about them the first chance they get.
I hated how in the last episode of SNW they treated Spock like an autistic child who needs multiple mommies to tell him what is what
I always took "we don't enslave animals for food purposes" to mean that factory farming had been abolished. I think there's a big difference between living in a symbiotic relationship with animals and using their produce and cramming as many animals into a space as possible in horrific conditions purely for the sake of profit.
Really kind of hating SNW and especially their interpretation of Spock.
Pro tip: no one in star trek should fucking say "pro tip"
While it's not technically ST, how did you guys like the new Orville season so far? It feels like they are dropping the humor almost completely. I generally like that, I watched it for the hommage and the Twilight Zone-type mystery boxes which was how TNG also worked and less for the Family Guy type jokes. But then it breaks immersion when they try to make a joke and have the captain a fucking Kermit doll on his desk.
I also can't take the Kaylons seriously as villians because they look like some pre-TOS era shit from Forbidden Planet or something.
I really dislike the design in NuTrek. While it's clearly a decent budget, space looks too colorful and cramed. The old Star Trek always had a certain emptiness of space, darkness. I don't know because of budget issues or design choices. Sure there was the occasional nebula and all that, but generally it was a handcrafted ship modell within the dark space which was a nice, comfy contrast because the ship felt like some kind of haven within an enviroment that is very hostile to humanoid life.
Best designed ship remains to be Voyager, IMO.
Yeah but the way he said it was pretty preachy. So was Measure of a Man tbh but that was warranted.
I am by no means a fan of veganism but if there is a way to synthesize meat with such ease, why would you eat animals, there would be no reason other than sadism or a decadent desire for "the real thing".
Measure of a Man was basically a court drama/thriller and court dramas in the 80s were really, really preachy (see A Few Good Man and similar stuff).
I still need to see it. I enjoyed the first couple of seasons. Not great sci fi or television, but much better than anything trek has accomplished lately.
What better way to honor another companion that has shared the journey of life with you than when it has reached the fullness of age, compassionately putting its misery aside, respectfully preparing it, and then making it a part of yourself?
As opposed to, what, just letting an animal go on into decrepitude, then letting it rot in the ground?
It's pretty clear that meals in Star Trek serve more than the simple mechanical purpose of restoring energy and nutrients. Meals are a spiritual activity of communion, and I don't see why that communion shouldn't extend to what's being eaten as well.
Holy shit, the last episode of SNW was a 100% rip-off of Alien and Aliens. Like, down to the minutiae. Were they trying to be ironic? Because honestly I've never seen a rip-off to the details ever before in a non-comedic way.
The actor they chose for Kirk in SNW must be some kind of joke, has the charisma of an IKEA chair.
>>26459>crashed ship on a inhospitable planet sends out SOS>crew investigates with shuttle craft>crew acts retarded, Xenomorph, excuse me, Gorn-infected guy chestbursts and alien jumps out>grows insanely fast, reached adolescence within hours
The stuff from Aliens and Alien 3 was the little girl as the only surviver, using liquid nitrogen to freeze the creature, and so on. Also now that the Gorn are portrayed as absolutely horrifying monsters no compromise between them and the Federation can be reached which was implied in TOS.
Ew. I'm not against referencing/homage/whatever other movies in star trek but Alien of all franchises really doesn't seem appropriate, especially when it's used that way.
Me neither but it didn't feel like a homage (even if it was meant that way) because it was all serious and grimdark and not at all how The Orville treats Star Trek as an inspiration.
They've escalated things with the Romulans now in the last episode, maybe we got to see a Romulan-Federation war after they cancelled ENT and the looming Romulan-Earth war. But this Gorn stuff is utterly ridiculous, they should have just created a new species instead of clinging on so desperately to the memberberries especially if it's a species we have seen in one TOS episode through a guy in a fursuit that served as a plot device which we have never seen again.
Overall SNW has a lot of issues that need fixing, but it's not outright terrible like STD or Picard.
I'm enjoying this channel:https://www.youtube.com/c/MajorGrin
Just hate-comparing the new series with the older ones.
The comment section is the worst
I like it too, but the guy who runs it is a rightoid from Israel, that's why the comment section sucks.
fuck intellectual property lmao
>>27279>the culture that was literally designed as the logical endpoint of capitalism is portrayed as the evil communists
ugh every fucking time
I just learned Nichelle Nichols died yesterday, rest in peace.
1. Seth MacFarlane is an arch-liberal
2. it's anticommunist propaganda. any mention of M-R pact in Western media will ignore everything that led up to it and act like Stalin and Hitler were best buds. Nobody ever stops to consider the fact that, if Stalin had not invaded Poland at the same time as Hitler, the East half of Poland would have been occupied by nazis, all the way up to the Soviet border.
They also referencered Kissingers domino theory. Krill leader saying that the Union shouldn't impose every universal values on everyone and that they want peaceful development also gave me bad vibes, like that's supposed to be a bad statement, genuine or not.
Trek itself largely agrees with you as the PD is usually ever brought up as a plot device so the main characters can flout it to save the day.
Prime Directive pretty much exists as a rule to create conflict. The basis for it makes sense in theory (to prevent exploitation or accidental catastrophe like what happened with the Old World met the New World) but in practice it usually causes problems. You probably shouldn't think of it as a serious philosophical stance that you are meant to agree with, but as a plot device.
They really did this shit? Goddamn it why!? the first 2 seasons were so good and fun.
Read the thread, see >>13229
Excuse the schizo post, I thought of this while on shrooms:
Q omniscience works via uncertainty principle. Q might know everything that will happen in a timeline, but only if he's not in that particular timeline. Being in a timeline and interacting with someone causes it to diverge into a different timeline, but in ways that Q can't predict while being inside that particular timeline. He can't know what timeline he's actually in until he rises "above" it to see where it goes (confer Flatland). If a Q never interferes with the universe, it's boring because they already know what's going to happen; so the only way they can achieve novelty is by fucking with timelines. I guess you could say their omniscience is far-sighted, and they take advantage of that limitation to entertain themselves for an infinite amount of "time". Like, I know if I play roulette that ball can only stop in the slots on the wheel, so theoretically I shouldn't want to play because I already know the outcomes and their probabilities; but when I land 19 red twice in a row, ,even knowing it's statistically possible, I still get excited because I had no idea when it would happen even if I know it WOULD eventually happen.
You can't have omniscience and free will at the same time because you will always know what you are going to do. To be able to make choices how to interact with things, you have to at least not be able to know what you are going to do next, and if you don't know that how can you extrapolate what happens next as a consequence of your action? Q fucks with humans because his interference creates a disturbance in the timeline that opens up the possibility for things to happen that he can't know for sure. Watching Picard and the Enterprise from afar is uninteresting because the timeline plays out in a deterministic way from Q's perspective (even if it has infinite branches, he can still see them all play out so it's just more complicated than a linear timeline, still predetermined). If he inserts himself into the timeline things become unpredictable.
My internet friends are telling me that Lower Decks is, in fact, good.
Is it worth trying out or will it just make me feel bad like every other nutrek pos that's come out lately.
It's decent. It's a bit ripping off Rick and Morty but without the vulgarity. The stories are episodical and are written decently enough. It kept me hooked even though I dislike cartoons. I couldn't even make it through Invincible but everyone told me that this is the best non-Japanese TV show since recently.
However best NuTrek show is the Pike show, by far. Don't go near STD and especially Picard.
May the Prophets and The Sisko guide you!!
Kinda miscast though, Jadzia was supposed to be the hot one and Kira the tough warrior one but the look the opposite. Ngl before the 2000s female warriors always looked ridiculous for the character they were playing, except Gracie Jones in Conan.
What are you talking about? Jadzia IS hot. And i don't think she would look more warriory.
Well, they are both incredibly hot.
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