<Star Trek Picard S01E01 is out
(check torrents)
>general
Favourite episodes, best characters, memorable moments, etc.
<span class="quote">>STD</span><br/>For those who don't know what that stands for (other than Sexually Transmitted Disease) its the Abbreviation for Star Trek Discovery, which aired from 2017-now.<br/>Why is it trash? Because unlike the other Star Treks which focused on a main cast of crew-members to whom we could grow to love or hate and who interacted normally, STD instead has 1 main character that encapsulates liberal idpol; african-american girl who-don't-need-no-man. Her behavior in the pilot alone is nauseatingly irresponsible and idiotic, which in the context of her backstory is illogical.<br/>They only talk about emotions (yet do't really adequately show them or have it affect things other than idiotic behaviour). The dialogues are badly written. There’s no fun and no sense of adventure or exploration in the show.<br/>Gays, lesbians, muh stoopid white men, muh stoopid protocols, muh lesbian OCs. Its like a bad Mary Sue fanfiction. In the prior series lesbians, gays, people of different races were integrated without question, because it was the future and such things were irrelevant to people as a whole, when self-betterment and space DISCOVERY was more important.<br/><br/>Oh and they praise Elon Musk and capitalism (when prior shows intentionally went against this).<br/><br/>I'd go on but frankly I'm tired and this is more of a rant than a proper review. I might do a arc-by arc review of the show as future reference for newfags.
<a onclick="highlightReply('1860', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#1860">>>1860</a><br/><span class="quote">>Dude I have been wanting to get into startreck forever, but, I don't know were to start. Can anyone help me out?</span><br/>Yes. First off, the abbreviations. <br/><br/>Star Trek: The Original Series<br/><span class="quote">>TOS</span><br/>Captain Kirk, original show<br/><br/>Star Trek: The Animated Series<br/><span class="quote">>TAS</span><br/>Captain Kirk, cartoon rendition of TOS<br/>&ltnot actually canon (decanonised) <br/><br/>Movies: I, II, III, IV, V and VI (cast of TOS, Kirk, Spock, etc.)<br/><br/>Star Trek: The Next Generation <br/><span class="quote">>TNG</span><br/>Captain Picard, first live action show after TOS<br/><br/>Movies: VII, VIII, IX, X (cast of TNG, Picard, Riker, etc.)<br/><br/>Star Trek: Deep Space 9<br/><span class="quote">>DS9</span><br/>Captain Sisko, starts during penultimate season of TNG<br/><br/>Star Trek: Voyager<br/><span class="quote">>VOY</span><br/>Captain Janeway, starts during last season of DS9<br/><br/>Star Trek: Enterprise<br/><span class="quote">>ENT</span><br/>Captain Archer, prequel filmed long after VOY was done<br/><br/>Movies: 3 JJ Abrams Trek movies (not canon) The third one feels the most "trek". They're not bad sci-fi adventure/action movies, they're terrible Star Trek movies. <br/><br/>Star Trek: Discovery <br/><span class="quote">>STD</span><br/>Captain uhh… Georgia? And then the guy. But captains don't matter, it's all about Michael. <br/><br/>Suggested order of watching:<br/>TNG - DS9 - VOY - ENT - TOS<br/><span class="quote">>alternative: watch TOS after VOY, before ENT</span><br/><br/>The TNG movies you can watch after you've seen DS9, and the TOS movies you can watch after you see TOS. You can also watch TAS for fun. STD is not mandatory because it is not canon, or part of the prime universe. Prime universe is the main storyline of the universe. Events of TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT (as well as the ten TNG+TOS movies) all take place in the same universe and events are often referenced in the shows.<br/><br/>First season of TNG is gonna be a bit cringe, but they were just figuring it out. It gets better from half-way into the season then just continues improving. Watch an episode or two of TOS before TNG so that you can appreciate how different it is.<br/><br/>Movies are very different from the show. The TNG movies are dumbed down action films for a mass audience, but it's cool seeing Picard kicking ass while espousing communist ideals (First Contact). Just don't expect too much from the movies. <br/><br/>TOS movies range from decent to actually pretty good, except one. I'll let you find out which one, it's funny because it's spectacularly bad. <br/><br/>To recap:<br/>&ltprime universe<br/><span class="quote">>canon</span><br/>ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, movies I - X<br/><span class="quote">>non-canon</span><br/>TAS<br/>&ltnon-prime universe<br/>3 JJ Abrams movies, STD
<a onclick="highlightReply('1878', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#1878">>>1878</a><br/>I watched it and thought "Trek is back". It is an engaging story that flows from an established event in a Star Trek episode. Wolf 359 was the catalyst for Sisko's character on DS9 and his tension with Picard, the Maquis from DS9 were the basis for Voyager, and Maddox/cybernetics from the TNG episode Measure of a Man is the start of Star Trek Picard. It's all part of the same universe and same events, the continuity is one of the things I love about Star Trek (and lack of it I hate in STD).<br/><br/>Personally, I've always considered Measure of a Man to be one of Trek's best episodes. We explore what it is to be human and ask about extending that right to non-humans, like Data. What exactly are we? is a question that is still unanswered. I'm hoping STP explores it further, which it seems like they're doing.<br/><br/>And there's a good explanation why Picard is coming back. Cybernetics/synthetics division of Daystrom institute has been all but closed down after synthetics were banned, therefore no one cares about them. If he doesn't do it, who will? He is also an admiral that quit starfleet (he wasn't discharged), so coming back is not unheard of.<br/><br/>About Picard's age. Do you not remember Grand Nagus Zek? Or pic related? When have you ever gotten the impression that in Star Trek your age or a disability or a mutation can prevent you from doing things and achieving what you set out to do?<br/><br/>Trek is back, enjoy it.
So I've come around and watched the first episode of Picard. <br/><br/>People praise the space sequence in the beginning, with all the colours, and frankly, I'm not a big fan of it. Space doesn't actually look like that but I'm willing to let that pass, rather, I miss the organic contrast of endless, black space with the white ship model (back from the days where they were handcrafted and not CHI). I feel like modern space operas tend to overload scenes with colours and can not help themselves but to use too much CGI. The Expanse did this much better. <br/><br/>Anyway, into the episode. It's too early to say much about it because the episode didn't leave us with much information. I don't know why they decided to blow up Romulus, because JJ Abrams already did that in NuTrek, which is supposed to be a different timeline. It'll get people confused. Picard's interview was a pretty blatant nudge towards the refugee crisis and Trumpism, I don't mind contemporary politics woven into the fabric of Trek but I'm not sure that the liberals running this can pull it off without going beyond "Drumpf bad" - TNG always had some interesting ideas about utopia and ethical problems, not sure if they manage to combine ethics, references to contemporary politics and a gripping story in such a way DS9 did it. DS9 was pretty liberal as well, but at least it all made sense and was fun to watch. <br/><br/>Blowing up Dahj and then "resurrecting" her by introducing a twin sister seemed stupid. What was the point of that? The audience didn't have any connection to this character, so there was no shock value in that. <br/><br/>I don't even think the show has a small pace. Fast-paced shows like STD are a pain in the arse. The Witcher was pretty slow-paced too, so I have no idea why people think Picard was slow-paced. Slow-paced or not, the showrunners should be careful not to manuever themselves into the mess STD is in by combining too many plotlines and themes. STD season one had a war with the Klingons, the retarded spore drive and the mirror universe, way too overloaded. Picard already introduced the android question, the Romulans being refugees, a conspiracy, and the Romulans living in a Borg cube, insinuating that the Borg will somehow play a role in all this. This is already incredibly loaded and the shitty thing is that these are all common Trek themes regurgitated, the Borg should not be touched after VOY ruined them, and if they have to be touched, they should just remain the threatening villain as we know them from TNG before "Descent". <br/><br/>So, slow pace my ass. This is already rushed. And are we ever gonna get a new species/villain? DS9 managed to create the Dominion as an intriguing enemy, and did not have to abuse the Borg or whatever. STD too did not manage to do anything new. The mirror universe was well established, and the Red Angel turned out to be a red herring.<br/><br/>Also, I didn't like how Picard, besides his two housekeepers, has literally field workers employed. What the fuck? Not only should this be automated, it made him look like some type of landed gentry. Also, did suit and tie make a comeback on the verge to the 25th century? <br/><br/>However, I'll keep an open might. It didn't amaze me but it also didn't disappoint me
<a onclick="highlightReply('1918', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#1918">>>1918</a><br/><span class="quote">>by introducing a twin sister seemed stupid. What was the point of that?</span><br/>Data and Lore are twins, albeit made at different times. They said most promising synthetics came from twins. Data never killed Lore and was always interested in any relatives he might have had. Going so far to create an offspring. It fits.<br/><span class="quote"><br/>>these are all common Trek themes regurgitated</span><br/>Android question is the basis for the show (Measure of a Man, Maddox). DS9 established that the Federation is not all smiles and flowers (Section 31). Romulans being refugees gives the show a background, as in there's shit happening that is not on screen, but will get there. Conspiracies are a Star Trek theme period. Borg have been a threat since forever and in our 21st century tech world they're as relevant as ever. Notice how Picard lives on an old house, has a vineyard, etc. It's the clash of the old and the new, another Star Trek theme.<br/><br/>As I said, Trek is back. No one said it has to be amazing. Just better than STD <span class="spoiler">and VOY</span>.<br/><span class="quote"><br/>>has literally field workers employed.</span><br/>Agreed, that's fucked up. But we don't know the nature of their "employment". They could just be working there. Remember how Sisko's dad ran a restaurant and had people working there? There can be work without wage-labour.
If you'd go back in time to when I was a teenager and told me that, in the future, Star Trek is so popular we'd get three new shows running concurrently, I probably would have been amazed and wondering how to watch it all. If I was told again, it would be this kind of nonsense, I would have been in disbelief.<br/><br/>Pic related is from the new Trek comedy cartoon Lower Decks (obviously toon-boom style of course). She's the ships doctor, and not one of the main characters. The main characters are, as the title implies, low-level flunkies who are no doubt going to get up to wacky adventures with the never-changing punchline being that the bridge crew never notices they're even going on. So, y'know, nothing like the actual TNG episode Lower Decks, where the lives of the characters and their concerns are treated seriously, to the point where it ends with the implied death (not to mention torture) of the one who put everything on the line to fight injustice. TNG had its cheesy moments and humor, but it all made sense and was acceptable within the actual story/world it is depicted in. This is exactly why I prefer the Orville, since it follows the original themes of 'Trek.
<a onclick="highlightReply('2120', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2120">>>2120</a><br/>Even the old Star Trek Animated, antiquated and childish as it is, retains adult themes and interesting ideas behind all the tongue-in-cheek humor and references. The artstyle was better too, the characters looked like actual figures and beings, not painted flubber. The animation is 'worse' but it was the 60s so it gets a pass on that<br/><span class="quote">>inb4 toon-boom style is more fluid/budget</span><br/>The budget for any toon-boom style cartoon dwarfs the budget of any hand-drawn cartoon of the 60s, 70s and 80s. Moreover the availability of computers has made the process of putting them together for TV drastically faster and cheaper, allowing for more time to produce them. Star Trek Animated, despite being a throwaway series even cheaper than Hanna Barbara, had more subsistence than this noodly-limbed, inane, 'safe' garbage
I don't think it's a stretch to say that entertainment has been dumbed down to appeal to base ideals. It's never been a secret that Star Trek has had an underpinning of traditionally left wing ideas (at least while Roddenberry was alive), but it was never dumb or childish (or at least rarely). In part the blame lies in the hypercritical stance people have taken over the years. If you take risks, there are going to be times when you get it wrong. And like any popular media, the fandom tears into every misstep it can. <br/><br/>Discovery, the bit that I've seen, is the opposite of risk-taking. A very standard show, with very standard, modern visuals and camera work, very standard writing, and very safe opinions, such as they are. Its ideas don't go particularly deep. There's a reason people go on and on about representation, and that's because there isn't anything else. It never uses the setting to make a point, however simplistic. There's no episode where an Orion just paints itself pink or brown and pretends to be human so they don't have to deal with the racial/political implications that come with being from a planet-wide criminal syndicate or some other basal plot idea. <br/>The Klingon Prison Ship episode for example; Good job, you accurately recreated a hellish prison camp as the backdrop to your character drama, how 'invaluably' this was used (sarcasm). <br/><br/>Star Trek has always been about a large cast of characters and not just 1 main character, and its diversity and politics were always plot relevant and not forced, not "muh short-haired black woman who don't need no man" stereotype. Star Trek was the celebration of being yourself often enough, and tried to go against stereotypes, while Discovery's main character is essentially a woman trying to be a man while pointing out they're a woman, something easily visible in her name being MICHAEL. As a person who enjoys diverse and interesting characters especially women, the past decade of media has essentially made female characters into pathetic partisan stand-ins. Like George Carlin said, whats the point of feminism if your only idea of a strong woman is for her to act and essentially BE a man? If men suck so much (as is implied) why is imitating them a good thing? Is feminism so devoid of anything that it has to stoop to copying those it opposes?<br/><br/>All that STD is missing is what we're getting from The Orville. NuTrak is just safe characters going through action plots. They even use modern language, which I absolutely hate. And then pat themselves on the back for having characters say "fuck". Aren't we progressive? FFS Deep Space 9 had Cirroc Lofton full on say "niggers". Except it's in an episode where it actually has a point, so no-one remembers it as special. As someone said, it's like Game of Thrones in space; war, bloody pointless brutality and political complications born out of bickering. In spite of having 1 main character there is far too large a cast in the show, ironic really. <br/>Its essentially the Clone Wars TV series but without real grounding in the films/prior media and without any relateable characters or actual new ideas or realistic intricacy. <br/><br/>The one positive is that we never actually lost anything. The old stuff is still there, it's still just as good, and there are even people rediscovering it through the new content. Though I won't lie, it does fucking annoy me how this shit seeps into the community. For instance, now I have to bullshit-filter stuff I read on Memory Alpha because "muh Discovery is Canun!". Like, fuck off.<br/><br/>Honestly with all the diversity bullshit, you'd wonder, why not just go straight for a bisexual Caitian like M'ress being a main character of a show? You'd get: <br/>A) a sexual minority (bisexual)<br/>B) a female lead (feminism)<br/>C) a minority race (feline)<br/>D) you get furries on board <span class="spoiler">(and /x/ lyran fags)</span><br/>E) Trekkies would like it since its a canon alien not featured since the old days. <br/>All that would be awesome… and that's why it won't happen.<br/><br/>The reason we won't see sexy space cats is the same reason they don't get anything else right. Sexy space cats aren't safe. They'd have to go through a design phase, of course. Then they'd have to decide how they're going to do it, make-up or CGI. They're going to want CGI, because practical effects make road-of-the-least-resistance execs puke. Then they're going to see how expensive it is and remember they're greedy, soulless fucks without vision, so they don't really need to do anything risky or avant garde. So they'll just slap a CGI tail on there like in the Into Dorkness scene and call it good. I mean, while we're playing up the promiscuous nature of Captain Kirk to almost comical levels we don't want to actually have him have sex with anything that doesn't look human in this science fiction franchise about exploration and understanding, now do we? That'd scare away Joe Average who pretends to be disgusted by anything but the thinnest of models so his friends don't call him a limp dick faggot. It's ironic that back in the day of "le boomer meme" people were a lot more internally accepting of such shit while today, they're more openly liberal when virtue signalling but in practice can't stop hiding behind their pretentious pandering. <br/><br/>They like CGI because it's easily changed in post without reshoots. You can see this with a lot of action movies. Gone are 80's squibs (even in many 80s tribute films) and in are CGI puffs of red, because they can easily leave those out and make the entire thing PG-13. With squibs you have to rig them for every single take, and for a big action sequence that can be really time consuming to redo. With CG blood you can do a lot of takes more easily then choose the one you want and add the effects to it later. However while that is true it means that they are took lackadaisical. The limiting factor of having to reset the squibs every time forced actors to do their cuts with more effort (which shows seeing the lack of proper facial reaction and general acting in general in many of today's films.<br/><br/>They only care about diversity as a marketing ploy. It's easy to cast non-white actors and then use them as a shield against criticism or as an accomplishment on their own. Discovery is less diverse than TOS, yet it wants all the fucking credit. It even tried to sell 'Michael' as the FIRST black star trek character, amended it to first black lead and finally first black female lead (also tripping over first female lead), ignoring TOS, VOY and DS9 in 1 fell swoop, despite STD supposedly being canon to TOS. <br/><br/>Frankly Discovery isn't as bad as other diversity ploys at least, "le cis-white-male" meme is still present but compared to Batwoman, Star Wars: Last Jedi and other inane trash its pretty low-key - not that being compared to trash makes it better. People were going to either support it as shallow newfags, support it for its radlib policies, or hate it for both those reasons. The executives apparently didn't realize this until the 2nd season which is why Picard was made, to hook fans back in with conspirational intrigue and a beloved nostalgic set of characters. It's mediocre pandering, like Force Awakens was to Star Wars, but people appreciate even that after the trashfire of the past years. <br/><br/>TL;DR: STD has little 'Discovery' in it being more like Game of Thrones than Star Trek, is bland, 'safe' virtue signalling aimed at SJWs and newfags because catgirls despite being more fun and new (in comparison, are not mainstream enough apparently. Picard is just a reaction to the failure of STD, and while enjoyable is mediocre in a technical sense.
The series in a nutshell:<br/><span class="quote">>TOS</span><br/>Weird new shit, studio doesn't really trust it, has to maintain a lot of muh traditional values. Roddenberry struggles to get good shit in there, but ends up being a huge milestone in TV and popular art in general. Has some good episodes but a lot of it is babby's first sci fi for boomers. Kirk is a straightforward power fantasy.<br/><span class="quote">>TNG</span><br/>The brand is established and trusted now. It's free to take risks and be more progressive or visionary. Has a lot of good high-concept science fiction, but kind of spoiled by Roddenberry's autism about the characters having to be boring. Also very boomer-poisoned with pandering holodeck bullshit. Picard isn't really a character at all, more like a marty stu perfect ideal (which is ok for what it's supposed to be, just not terribly compelling).<br/><span class="quote">>DS9</span><br/>Peak Star Trek. Has plenty of high-concept sci-fi, but handled by actual characters, against a backdrop of regional galactic politics that can develop instead of previous shows being almost completely isolated episodes. Established and new species have room to breathe beyond the stereotypes. The characters actually play off each other instead of just being a high-functioning team. Sisko is underrated because his personality is understated (as he's playing the role of a stoic commander).<br/><span class="quote">>Voyager</span><br/>Tried turning a sci fi franchise into an adventure one. Some good episodes, but by this point the writing was starting to degrade and some premises were wearing thin. Constant studio fuckery made it even worse. The trend in characters being more flawed and dynamic continued from DS9, instead of sticking with that balance, and it's not an improvement. Janeway is seen as obnoxious, but that's pretty justified given the story, as are the characters being shittier. Unfortunately she doesn't have enough positive qualities to make up for the negatives, and she's too inconsistent for her problems to become endearing or relatable. The story making sense doesn't make it compelling.<br/><span class="quote">>Enterprise</span><br/>An attempt to keep the TV Star Trek franchise alive, by going back to an origin story. Lots of fan-wank and fanservice, plus TOPICAL shit about 9/11. Archer has the Janeway problem of inconsistency but even worse.<br/><span class="quote"><br/>>JJ Trek</span><br/><span class="quote">>Discovery</span><br/><span class="quote">>Picard</span><br/>whatever man shit's boring who cares<br/><br/>I second this <a onclick="highlightReply('1870', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#1870">>>1870</a> for the order but note that you definitely can skip around TNG, which has some fucking cringeworthy early episodes before they figured out what they were doing with the series. Maybe look up a list of the best episodes for the early part. Voyager and Enterprise are optional IMO.
<a onclick="highlightReply('2213', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2213">>>2213</a><br/><span class="quote">>I don't want niche fetish stuff in Star Trek</span><br/>&ltniche stuff in Star Trek is now bad!<br/>You missed the point of the rant <span class="spoiler">(and Star Trek)</span> didn't you? Niche ideas, concepts and fetishes have been a part of Star Trek from the beginning, only newfags don't recognize this. <br/><span class="quote">>Why do you think you need to shove your fetishes</span><br/>No-one is shoving fetishes into anything, shapeshifting (among other things)is par for the course in Star Trek. Hell in the first season of TNG Troy was impregnated by an energy lifeform with itself so that it could experience being an organic life-form. Furries and other anthros were a part of Star Trek from the start, as the rant pointed out, nobody was bitching about that 50 years ago but because you lot are all virtue-signalling and can't seem to discern sexuality from identity you need to screech about it being important or not when that is irrelevant. M'ress hopped into bed with Scotty in one episode, nobody gave a fuck because that was just a commentary on how casual the idea of interspecies relationships was, not the focal point, and neither is it the focal point of the greentext. Stop making this about 'muh fetishes' when that wasn't the point, but a semi-joking addendum. <br/><span class="quote">>the *majority* of people do not share your fetish and furthermore may even be actively put off by it</span><br/>Stop making it about fetishes and ignoring shit you pretentious prude. The greentext mentioned that it can attract TF-fags, not that it was essentially about them. Stop projecting.<br/><span class="quote">>this is coming from someone that literally has no issues with TG/TF related media.</span><br/>&ltHow do you do, fellow kids TF-fags?<br/>What anecdotal rubbish<br/>Where in <a onclick="highlightReply('2196', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2196">>>2196</a> is there anything openly sexual implied. TF fags aren't all about sex you dumbass, changing into something else is not sexual unless you make it. <br/>Fuck you for having to explain this shit.
<a onclick="highlightReply('2214', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2214">>>2214</a><br/><span class="quote">>You clearly just don't understand Stark Trek like I do.</span><br/>Alright mate.<br/><span class="quote">>No-one is shoving fetishes into anything</span><br/>Mate, I wasn't just pulling some "hey fellow kids" shtick like you assume I am. To be blunt about it (even though I generally avoid discussing my fetishes), TG/TF is my fetish of choice, and I have plenty enough experience to recognize exactly the scenario that was described in the post I responded to as stock standard TG fantasy. "Oh no, I've been accidentally turned into a woman! What do I do! Oh no, I'm starting to enjoy it, now I don't want to turn back at all!". It's honestly pretty uninspired. I'm not even against the premise of "accidentally turned into another species", it was the explicitly fetishistic way it was framed that I reject, because I do *not* want Star Trek to turn into a vehicle for fetishism regardless of whether I find the fetish appealing or not.<br/><span class="quote"><br/>>can't seem to discern sexuality from identity</span><br/>Wait. Are you saying TF/TG fetishism is an *identity*? I mean…I guess as much as anything else can be, but…I really hope you don't base your "identity" around something like that. It'd be like if I based my identity around liking pizza a lot.<br/><br/>Listen, I don't give a shit about "furries" (they aren't the same thing really, but it's a distinction that I don't think actually matters here) in Star Trek, so long as they aren't being used as a vehicle for fetishism. You like anthropomorphic animal-like species in Star Trek? That's cool, I don't care one way or the other mate, more power to ya. Do I care if they have sex in the course of the show? Not really, no more than I have trouble with most sex in Star Trek usually being done kind of poorly.<br/><span class="quote"><br/>>What anecdotal rubbish</span><br/>What the *hell* are you on about? I didn't realize I need to provide *evidence* of my fetishes. Do you want a screenshot of my TFGamesSite account or some shit? The topics on /d/ about it? Would that be less "anecdotal" for you, you insufferable prick?<br/><span class="quote"><br/>>is there anything openly sexual implied</span><br/>A fetish doesn't always have to explicitly be sexual in nature, but that doesn't mean it isn't a fetish.<br/><br/>Fuck *you* for purity testing me on this niche fetish of all things you faggot.
<a onclick="highlightReply('2215', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2215">>>2215</a><br/><span class="quote">> I have plenty enough experience to recognize exactly the scenario that was described in the post I responded to as stock standard TG fantasy</span><br/>There are a lot of SFW films with gender-swap or race-swap (or both) that are excellent and irrelevant "muh fetish". Just like anthro animals in antiquity =/= furries, or a rectangle =/= square.<br/><span class="quote">>It's honestly pretty uninspired.</span><br/>Did anyone say it was something so unique? How does that take away from it? There are plenty of things in Star Trek are standard Sci-Fi ideas (like AI robots learning to be human or interspecies relationships) , doesn't make Star Trek bad. Most ideas today have been thought of at one point or another, the issue is making your own twist or just having fun with it as I suggested in the greentext.<br/><span class="quote">> the explicitly fetishistic way it was framed</span><br/>Bull-fucking-shit, are you just using words and phrases without thinking? Where is thee fetishism besides the whole "hey let me enjoy the changes" thing? You're projecting your own hard-on here.<br/><span class="quote">>Are you saying TF/TG fetishism is an *identity*?</span><br/>Not saying its essentially an identity to you, though it is for others, the point is more t othe extent about any sexual features. Just because its TF doesn't make it sexual, the context and execution does. <br/><span class="quote">>they aren't the same thing really</span><br/>M'Ress is a Caitian, literal anthro pantherines who PURR. There are lizard anthros, dog anthros and others in Old Star Trek, those are essentially furry characters, or interpreted as such.<br/><span class="quote">>I don't really care if they're ther or having sex but 'muh fetishism'</span><br/>Again, you're projecting. Fetishism wasn't the intent. The mentioning of furries and TG-fags is merely reference to the obvious demographic that would be interested for their own niche reasons, rather than that being the main reason. <br/><span class="quote">>I didn't realize I need to provide *evidence* of my fetishes</span><br/>You don't, but mentioning "I'm X and I don't…." is a dumb anecdotal argument. You being a TG-fag is irrelevant to the argument, but is being used as a bullshit reason for 'credibility'.<br/><span class="quote">>you insufferable prick</span><br/>&ltsays the person bitching about "muh TG in Star Trek"<br/>Kek<br/><span class="quote">>that doesn't mean it isn't a fetish</span><br/>Just because it is your fetish doesn't make it automatically a fetish. A child can smear food on their face and then eat it, does that make that a food-fetish? NO, because context fucking matters, and because interpretation fucking matters. Most people aren't going to be sexually aroused by seeing TG, but they're not really going to be disgusted unless its openly sexualized. Meanwhile a self-asserted TG-fag like you would find the situation to be their fetish. <br/><span class="quote">>purity testing</span><br/>LOL fuck you, you projecting paranoid cunt.
<a onclick="highlightReply('2215', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2215">>>2215</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('2213', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2213">>>2213</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('2201', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2201">>>2201</a><br/>If you want an example of Star Trek TF in a purposefully sexual greentext.<br/><span class="quote">>beam up with cute Caitian</span><br/><span class="quote">>Transporter mishap turns you into a cute Caitian too <span class="spoiler">or merges the two of you</span></span><br/><span class="quote">>Possibly even adding years to your life by being a longer lived species, or simply younger</span><br/><span class="quote">>They do tests</span><br/><span class="quote">>Doctor tells you the good news first; </span><br/><span class="quote">>Your DNA is stable, there are no signs of degeneration</span><br/><span class="quote">>Then the bad news; </span><br/><span class="quote">>Trying to re-establish your original bio-patterns is too risky</span><br/><span class="quote">>Previous cases all had facilitating circumstances we can't replicate here</span><br/><span class="quote">>For all intents and purposes you are permanently stuck in this body</span><br/>&ltO-oh no! What a disaster! <br/>&ltNo, I will need some time to cope with the fact that I now have the body of a young, supple cat woman in a world that is incredibly sex-positive; no problems with same-sex and/or interspecies relations to the point of there being an entire free love planet. <br/>&ltIn fact, I'll take my leave there. Prep the shuttle, doc! <br/>And the sexy adventure ensues, to boldly go where no deviant has before!<br/><br/>This is an obviously sexualized and fetishized greentext, unlike the one you responded too.
<a onclick="highlightReply('2194', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2194">>>2194</a><br/>The warrior cult seems out of character for Romulans, especially the sword stuff. It makes sense for Klingons to use blades as they're a warrior race, but for the Romulans who are into technology and deception it's a stupid idea. Also that retarded anime sword scene with the guy beheading the "senator" (apparently they came to the planet 14 years ago, how old was the guy when he was senator, 25?). Star Trek is not Star Wars, when characters pick up swords in the 24th century they better give a good explanation for it besides "it looks cool". <br/><br/>The Bird of Prey looked cool, I give you that.<br/><br/>Seven of Nine was teased to appear, but I'm hoping she didn't become too "human". Part of the appeal of Seven's character was that she was quite Borg-ish even after she decoupled with the collective, if she's now just a regular female character that would be disappointing, especially considering how old Seven could be a nice foil for Picard.<br/><br/>In general, I'm still having doubts over whether or not Kurtzman and co. have properly watched and understood Star Trek. There are some things that feel "off" to me, like the overblown relationship between Picard and Data, as if Picard was in love with data or something when in TNG data was more often than not a foil for Picard. They also haven't really given an explanation as to why the Federation went from a humanistic utopia to a MAGA style caricature ("good morning, plastic people") with a Fox News lady interviewing Picard and baiting him about refugees. One could speculate that this was a result of the Dominion War but the writers probably know fuck-all about DS9.
<a onclick="highlightReply('2224', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2224">>>2224</a><br/><span class="quote">>defending the holodeck episodes where there's zero stakes and people COOM over cars and shit</span><br/>You have to admit that this was a shift in VOY compared to the Trek that came before, this may have something to do with the "end of history" mentality prevalent in the 90s. <br/><br/>TNG, TOS and also DS9 always made the point that the 20th century was a time that was primitive compared to the future. Money, consumerism, greed, etc. was looked down upon as products of their time that have been overcome. Yet VOY, more then once, seems to faint in awe when confronted with shitty American consumerism like TV soaps (in the episode where they travel to 20th century earth Neelix literally gets fascinated by American trash TV), car brands and mainstream dad rock.<br/><br/>ENT was actually smarter in that regard. It portrayed the crew as still having hang-ups from the "primitive past" like militarism, doing it like "the good old ways" etc. but also overcoming them in the process of forming intergalactical alliances, culminating in the founding of the Federation.
<a onclick="highlightReply('2238', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2238">>>2238</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('2239', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2239">>>2239</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('2120', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2120">>>2120</a><br/>Apparently they ordered 2 seasons off the bat, and it's airing on CBS. More importantly its being made by one of the creators of Rick and Morty. Barf, farts, burps and really stupid 'wacky fun' are assured now and Rick and Morty memers are going to probably drop in on this and shit up the fandom. It's amazing the The Orville was created by Seth McFarlane, the maker of Family Guy (though he's been pretty bored with that for a while now, which is why its so shit), but he still made it an intelligent and humorous Star Trek homage, so maybe Lower Decks MIGHT get some good moments in, however like Gravity Falls or Adventure Time its going to be pretty garbage over-all even with the interesting ideas. <br/><br/>- <a href="https://trekmovie.com/2018/10/25/breaking-animated-comedy-star-trek-lower-decks-from-rick-mortys-mike-mcmahon-gets-two-season-order/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://trekmovie.com/2018/10/25/breaking-animated-comedy-star-trek-lower-decks-from-rick-mortys-mike-mcmahon-gets-two-season-order/</a><br/>- <a href="http://archive.ph/Z3YKo" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://archive.ph/Z3YKo</a><br/><br/>As a side note STD is now being supplemented with a series called Short Treks with characters from the Older Series in short unsequenced episodes (so basically shallow, high-budgeted short parodic fanfilms). <br/><br/>Why am I mentioning this? Because the same Rick and Morty creator is ALSO writing one of those episodes.<br/>- <a href="https://www.newsweek.com/rick-morty-star-trek-discovery-harry-mudd-writer-rainn-wilson-1124578" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.newsweek.com/rick-morty-star-trek-discovery-harry-mudd-writer-rainn-wilson-1124578</a><br/>- <a href="http://archive.ph/eNIHJ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://archive.ph/eNIHJ</a> Geez, in the last episode they've really just cashed in on the nostalgia. Riker and Troy are farmers now and that's all there is to it. Everybody shook hands and said goodbye in the end.<br/><br/>What I'm upset about is how they killed Hugh. That bitch ninja villian is not the least bit charismatic, but to tell everybody how "evil" she is she has to brutalize beloved characters people actually have a connection to. So she kills all these traumatized ex-Borg that were Hugh's friends, and then kills him to. I am okay with characters dying, but I have a problem when old characters are simply brought back to be meatbags for the new slick villian to kill to set them up. Khan only ever killed redshirts and he was iconic anyway. Write better villains. Two episodes ago they also brutally tortured Icheb from Voyager to death, just to set up that mafia lady.<br/><br/>Seven of Nine is gonna come back next episode and it looks like she's continuing to be a cold-blooded killing machine, already wielding two rifles at once in the teaser, lol. What a beautiful conclusion of her story arc from Voyager that ended up with her being human again.<br/><br/>Also, calling it, Sotchi (constantly having to think about the fucking Winter Olympics in Russia few years back when I hear that name) is going to be the Borg Queen, screenshot this. In the teaser you see the Borg Cube "regenerating", probably activated by her. Maddox couldn't solve the secret of the positronic net so he used Borg tech (which is why he was on Freecloud in the first place in debt to that smuggler lady). This isn't a new trope, already happened similarly with Lore in that TNG two-parter with a bunch of abandoned Borg. Kinda nerfed the Borg as well, massively.<br/><br/>By the way, when Picard was interviewed by the Fox News lady in the first episode, they really set it up that Picard was of course right to help the Romulans, and they then proceeded to show every Romulan to be an absolute cocksucker evil guy. Good job.
Star Trek Picard Episode 8 really shows the neoliberal character of the writers/show.<br/><br/>The Borg, after being "liberated" by Hugh, keep on reproducing the same material conditions and their lives go largely unchanged. Even the borg robots, that create new possibilities of ship design, organisation, etc. are also use to reproduce the old Borg cube. In fact, all authoritative institutions in the show are shown as fixed, with factions fighting over control of the objects. The Borg cube hosts Romulans, liberated Borgs, then "real" Borgs again without undergoing any significant change. Federations "betrayal" of its principles and itself does not happen because of any kind of structural or internal problems that are hinted at in Deep Space 9, but an external enemy that infiltrated their ranks, a foreigner. Even then, that enemy does not want to destroy the Federation, the enemy is a single-issue movement that wishes to destroy all synthetic life forms in the Galaxy. Picard wishes to stop them, making his mission not to save the Federation or do anything important, but to fight for the rights of synthetic life forms, which have wiped out and therefore do not actually exist. Their gripe is not with the Federation or the system that allowed the genocide to happen, it is with the evil individuals who have gamed the system and made the Federation genocide the synthetics. This signals that established order is not to be questioned, things "just work", it is evil individuals who use it for their evil ends.<br/><br/>And what is the reason for these evil ends? A written warning from three hundred thousand years ago from an unknown civilisation that seems to have been wiped out by synthetics. In other words, a ham-fisted message about religious radicalism who wishes to negate an identity or destroy a people/species, and how it is up to individuals within the Federation to fight them using the system. And why wouldn't you use the system? After all the total elimination of all synthetics in the Federation doesn't seem to have had an effect on the society, everything just continued as normal. This tells us that once the Federation was able to create a superior being they did not use their abilities to do anything new, but they just had them become part of the system. Once the synthetics were gone, their roles were filled by humans and everything went on as normal. The only damage we can see is the psyche of Captain Rios who became an alcoholic with a split personality disorder.<br/><br/>Captain Rios' initial devil-may-care and freedom loving appearance were nothing more than a front for a broken human who years to be in the structured hierarchy of Starfleet. They go so far to say that he considered his captain, his superior, his father. "Called him pops in my head, almost said it out loud once." Fucked up.<br/><br/><br/>Every time a character is about to do something interesting or just something, they are stopped by the plot and are then whisked away to the next dialogue. The characters do not seem like real people, they seem to be robots with a mission. We do not see them respond to situations in a characteristic way, all we see them do is talk to one another. Nothing ever really happens in the show outside of their mission. They talk a lot about the past, with the present existing only to find out the "truth" about the past and to achieve a SJW goal. The show is a 45 minute shot, reverse shot snooze fest, perfectly encapsulating the monotony of liberal capitalism and wage labour drudgery. The only thing that they could imagine is to have the characters talk in different settings, one of which is an idyllic late 19th century French farmhouse with servants and field hands. Appropriation of other cultures is the only way neoliberals can create anything of their own because ultimately it is an ideology without imagination, one which wishes to reproduce the current order and make money, so that money could be spent on better stuff and travel, rather than creating and building. <br/><br/>Speaking of imagination, the insides of the ships are empty and look uncomfortable/hostile for humanoid life forms. Everything is metal, cold, there aren't even any seats. The bridge of Picard&Co.'s ship's bridge is literally five office chairs in front of a small table. Either to save money or because they did not care, there aren't any consoles or panels, but they wave their hands in the air, on some sort of 3D hologram interface. They even use this interface to fly; what if something goes into the pilots eye during a manouver? They'd be fucked. and it's not only that there are not consoles, but there isn't anything else either. All the rooms are empty and devoid of any sign that actually living things live there. at least USS Enterprise had carpets and hallways.<br/><span class="quote"><br/>>pic related, me on the left watching Star Trek Picard</span>
<a onclick="highlightReply('2698', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2698">>>2698</a><br/>Simultaneously there are limits as to what lifeforms can develop as. Many alien life forms simply do not make as much evolutionary sense compared to clearly carbon-based humanoids like Klingons. Its more likely that aliens will develop similar adaptations to similar conditions. denser gravity -> denser bones, desert conditions -> lighter outer-shell/fur/scales etc. There is reason that nearly unrelated life forms develop similar appearances and adaptations, the perfect example is ichthyosaurs, fish and dolphins. All 3 have the same smooth, tapered body shape, dorsal, pectoral and tail fins, each evolved in separate manners but superficially looking the same. <br/>Star Trek has explored the concept of unconventional life often enough, but they are often incompatible with conditions on board Federation ships and hard to identify. This + production limits means humanoids are more prolific creatures featured. Some aliens such as the Ferengi are made for a specific point/foil to the Federation and their ideology.<br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('2578', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2578">>>2578</a><br/><span class="quote">>90% of the people here are rational and make complete sense!</span><br/>I think we all try our best<br/><span class="quote">>What was the purpose behind making "sci"-fi just edgy and grotesque wackiness?</span><br/>Monster movies are cheaper and better at bringing in money than thoughtful films like Enemy Mine. It's a symptom of American gung-ho fantasy<br/><span class="quote">>alien portrayal in cinema</span><br/>While Star Wars and Star Trek have been very expansive in how diverse and interesting their aliens are, few outside their sphere, (other than the Predator and Xenomorph) have much acclaim since alien's are treated more like plot-devices and attackers than actual people.
<a onclick="highlightReply('2578', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2578">>>2578</a><br/>Alright, I am no treky and this is the first time I am posting ITT, but your post inspires me to go on a scuffed, possibly autistic tirade about how aliens would look at least in my opinion. <br/>Speaking of your pic related, I would probably lean far more towards A, yet I do think aliens like <span class="spoiler">what I assume is</span> your waifu <span class="spoiler">no offense please</span> is also unrealistic. <br/>So here is my reasoning. <span class="spoiler">By the way, I am no expert on any of this, so take it all with a lot of salt.</span> First, I am limiting the alien variations to goldilock zone planets, so ones more or less like Earth. Now we also know that Earth had a few interesting periods in its history. With different composition of its atmosphere lifeforms also differed wildly. So apart from stuff we would more or less find in our current period on Earth dominated by mammals consideration should also be given for larger lizards and insects being possible aliens as well. <br/>As for things like rock-people or zero-g outer space lifeforms, well, it really is just pure fantasy that <em>might</em> exist, but I'd argue shouldn't be considered. However these, again, <em>might</em> be sort of like B side ayy lmaos.<br/>Now with general shapes that the alien flora and fauna can have in mind, let us consider which creatures could realistically form a basic society and eventually achieve technology at least of current human standard. Let's consider a few things that a species must and mustn't be to achieve this. <br/>&ltGenerational information transfer<br/>From my understanding the single most important trait needed to form a society that would advance and not stagnate. I have no clue how our ancestors gained this ability, nor why no other species that we know of didn't as well. So for now let's just assume anyone can get it or else this ends here with me saying idk maybe only primates under certain savanna conditions can get it. <br/>&ltSociability<br/>Obviously for any use to come of it the animal must also be communal. No JBP lobsters or egoist spiders. However to my knowledge basically every animal family has examples of this (communal spiders, most apes, crows and so on *sniff*). Again I will just assume this means any sort of animal can qualify this need. <br/>&ltSize<br/>Both micro and mega fauna will encounter difficulties that average sized animals don't worry about, hence they would most likely be the most common type of alien species to reach the stars. <br/>&ltAppendages<br/>Most likely any successful species will need appendages that could easily manipulate objects, so probably no space ungulates without some sort of trunk, fish etc. <br/>Now, I would argue that any animal species with these traits I just mentioned qualified will likely be able to form at least a primitive communist society, however this does not mean they will be able to advance further. So, traits for a species to have in order to reach human levels of development <span class="spoiler">let's put what I learned from Cockshott to a truly useful task</span>:<br/>&ltVore<br/>Arguably only omnivores and perhaps herbivores can reach a sedentary primitive communist and eventually slave society. Carnivores will not be able to move away from hunter economy, and I doubt they would manage to create a farming economy based on slaughtering as it would be highly labour intensive. Herbivores might also be a bit fucked since it might get a bit hard to survive only on gathering and harvests, but perhaps they even beat omnivores since they would be more motivated to transition to agriculture, thus not needing a kick in the balls like the extinction of megafauna was for humans. <br/>&ltTerrain<br/>Only land-based species will have the best chance. Aquatic species will have trouble with mastering fire, which means that while they might reach slave or even feudal society, it will not be able to progress towards capitalist machine production. Perhaps alternative power sources for it can be found, yet again, this is a severe minus. RIP space squids. <br/>Well, can't really think of any others of the top of my head, so I guess that's all your alien needs to qualify in order to get into space then. <br/>Now let's also look at appearance. I think it's safe to say that the form of the body changes a lot during the primitive communist period. Some changes from the well known animals that could happen in the case of them becoming a sapient species: de-furryfication (though some would likely remain like human facial and bodily hair, change of appendage size and length, some general light changes to facial features, increase in head size. <br/>I guess final thing to address is the "rubberheads". I think it might not be to far fetched. It is dependent mainly due to random mutations, so no real reason why our ears are round and not elf-like, or why our nose isn't more flat. <br/>So, I guess that is kind of it then. Hope you enjoyed the tirade!
Isn't it a bit ridiculous how they've come from creating two functioning sentinent androids (Data and Lore) by a genius scientist to now being able to mass-produce androids indistinguishable from humans? At this point they've acquired godlike level of technological development. <br/><br/>To them, Data compares like a Commodore 64 to a high-end gaming PC. Data had flaws, at some point him being sentinent was debated, he felt nothing when his Lal died, he didn't understand things on a meta level (humour, metaphors) and while he was learning he never really overcame his artificial side. There was an emotion chip but it malfunctioned all the time. Lore, on the other hand, was given emotions and ambitions, and that flipped him completely towards the deep end. Soji on the other hand is so human that she literally had an emotional breakdown when she realized that she was artificial.<br/><br/>I like the androids from Westworld - at times, serious questions are raised about their actual personhood. And when you carve them up you realise they're pretty clearly machine underneath that fake skin and blood. They could have gotten for a more toned down version like that, instead of like "yep, we can actually produce quasi-humans now." <br/><br/>The Borg have already been nerfed to death but this might be it for them to look ridiculously outdated. You want to combine biological life and technology? Oh, guess what, the Federation now produces tech-only life that has all the qualities of biological life but none of its flaws.<br/><br/>Star Trek: Picard teased me in the beginning hoping that we get more of the "Measure of a Man" type of typical Trek philosophical/ethical dilemmas as the story unfolds in that regard, but it dropped the ball. Episode 8 was only good episode, episode 9 and 10 was such an utter debacle I am genuinely interested how they could write this shit without physically cringing.
Also, this:<br/><a href="
https://youtu.be/jqn0WhG53uA" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://youtu.be/jqn0WhG53uA</a><br/><br/>A couple of them slipped past. Did they really have Patrick Stewart say "ass-deep in Romulan space"? What the fuck. How did Stewart not intervene and told him this is absolutely not how Picard, especially the elderly version, talks?
<a onclick="highlightReply('3174', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#3174">>>3174</a><br/>Thanks for that PDF, it looks interesting. I'm gonna read it today or tomorrow.<br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3174', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#3174">>>3174</a><br/><span class="quote">>In star trek universe then, should we not see that the 'races' should adapt to the inter-stellar order (which also constitues them in a complex dialectic)?</span><br/>In TNG (less so in DS9) races have planet-wide cultures. It was probably done for simplicity-sake and is often made fun of. However, it allowed for dialectical solution of issues the Enterprise crew would encounter.<br/><br/>In some episodes, they'll visit a planet and the leader of the planet will tell them about some terrorist who is fucking with them. Then they go in thinking this guy is a terrorist but once they meet with him they realise that he's a leader of a movement or an expression of a tension in their society that is (usually) buried and hidden by the dominant faction. In some episodes the differences between the factions are physical. Ultimately, in the end of the episode, synthesis is reached and both sides are integrated into the "solution" and we're told that their society is better for it.<br/><br/>We get more space geo(?)-politics in DS9. However, it has a less of a dialectical message and more of a moral one, "do the right thing", "tradition and spirituality are important for well-being of a race", "there are bad actors who wish to dominate and destroy and they must be stopped by good actors", stuff like that.
I'm still pissed about how unbelievably fucking bad Star Trek: Picard was. Star Trek is actually something I care about and seeing it's corpse raped by Kurtzman makes me sick.<br/><br/>I was willing to give Kurtzman and his friends a second chance after Discovery, I was hoping that Patrick Stewart and the other TNG actors are not sell-outs and would exert some influence, but apparently they are, in the end, all elderly dumb actors that want to revive their old fame. I stayed with the first season to the very end, but the last two episodes really pushed me over the edge. What a fucking shitshow. The plot was completely ham-fisted and stolen from Mass Effect, pretty much the only thing Kurtzman can do is steal. The visions of the "admonition" are stock images off Google, the genocidal robots from the other dimension are from Matrix, the android themes are borrowed from Westworld which tackled the issue ten times better, the fucking Romulans lost every characteristic are are just evil humans now, Picard is a useless pussy that everybody hates, the Borg are useless pussies now that they are brought down by a literal flower, everybody swears all the time and is stingy, there is a magical repair device that just does what you think (!), Seven of Nine is a lesbian psychopath now, and the worst thing ever: They made Picard a robot but a malfunctioning one that emulates a feeble old man that will eventually die - and Picard endorses that of course. Jesus fucking Christ. Also, do they realise that they made a case against synthetic life, considering Soji was almost ending all life in the galaxy?? This is the absolute worst and the people who made this are incompetent, uncreative, toxic and lazy idiots.<br/><br/>Phrases actually uttered by characters in Picard:<br/><span class="quote">>ass-deep in Romulan space </span><br/><span class="quote">>it's the abusive Romulan boyfriend</span><br/><span class="quote">>I love you Data </span><br/><span class="quote">>shut the fuck up Picard/J.L. (4×)</span><br/><br/>This isn't Jean-Luc Picard, this is J.L. Picard. Excited in a masochist way for season two, maybe we get to see robot Picard having gay sex with Q or something after which he says "that was the greatest fuck I've had my entire fucking life". Buckle up, the Kurtzman train is rolling, three more ST shows are already in the oven
<a onclick="highlightReply('3955', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#3955">>>3955</a><br/>Nope, same here, and a few others in the thread. <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('4041', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#4041">>>4041</a><br/>Never because <a onclick="highlightReply('2195', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2195">>>2195</a><br/><span class="quote">>The reason we won't see sexy space cats is the same reason they don't get anything else right. Sexy space cats aren't safe (anymore)</span><br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3786', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#3786">>>3786</a><br/>Sorry, late reply: yeah I'm from those threads, a few people here are actually. <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3944', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#3944">>>3944</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3655', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#3655">>>3655</a><br/>A good overview on the issues of Picard: <br/><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsmqcLv8Q-4" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsmqcLv8Q-4</a> <a onclick="highlightReply('4054', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#4054">>>4054</a><br/>Aye, See pic 1<br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('4044', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#4044">>>4044</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3655', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#3655">>>3655</a><br/>Speaking of Data this is his last (non-CGI) portrayal since Spiner is done portraying him and thus that is why his "daughters" were made, tying up the loose ends of TNG and Nemesis (loose ends that I rather doubt people wanted answers to).<br/>- <a href="https://www.cbr.com/star-trek-brent-spiner-done-playing-data/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.cbr.com/star-trek-brent-spiner-done-playing-data/</a><br/>- <a href="https://www.cbr.com/star-trek-picard-data-what-happened-data/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.cbr.com/star-trek-picard-data-what-happened-data/</a><br/>- <a href="https://www.cbr.com/star-trek-brent-spiner-talks-picard-finale/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.cbr.com/star-trek-brent-spiner-talks-picard-finale/</a> <br/>I feel like his 'praise' is more of a "yes, yes everything is fine, bye now" so that he doesn't have to go over the role again<br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('3655', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#3655">>>3655</a><br/><span class="quote">>Seven of Nine is a lesbian psychopath </span><br/>That and the other forced diversity rubbish is being praised as putting Picard into the 21st century! An ironic statement considering the far-future of the original TNG and its ideological themes… I miss the quiet yet genuine erotica of lesbian relations in older Trek series (pic 2). The worst part is that Picard is declared as 'fixing' this, because subtle show-don't-tell in a television series is BAD because it doesn't have blatantly forced exposition about "muh lesbian feels!"… which is even stupider considering the character os Seven-of-Nine in the first place making her an implied bi-sexual. DS9 spent 6 episodes exploring this alt-universe with downright slash-fic scenes, but apparently that's not enough to get a "gay-approved" stamp. It's like with the "gay Spock" shit, because 'the (new) actor is gay, so is the character'… 'cause fuck people having real identities. <br/>- <a href="https://www.cbr.com/picard-lgbt-romance-star-trek-21st-century/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.cbr.com/picard-lgbt-romance-star-trek-21st-century/</a><br/>- <a href="https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a31957723/star-trek-picard-seven-nine-lgbtq/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a31957723/star-trek-picard-seven-nine-lgbtq/</a><br/>And of course Discovery's hamfisted insert about gay marriage is also paraded as some great step… simultaneously criticized for the downright asinine reason of "bury your gays", a trope that has specific context. <br/>The fact that people are obsessing over a character's onscreen sexuality over the actual character is honestly almost as bad as waifu-fags. This is why I prefer The Orville, they cover gay, bisexual, lesbian and trans relationships (as well as things like cheating and polyamory) in a comedic light most of the time, but also manage to provide serious discussions and thought on the topic, especially with the character Bortus and his family. It's important to the plot, yet does not dominate the character's identity. <br/>Ironically there is popularity for Seven-of-Nine being a futanari (spoilered pic 3), explainable due to the Borg tendency to integrate parts of other species, which would (possibly) include being hermaphroditic, something left unexplored by Star Trek. <br/>Unfortunately logic is swept under the rug for the much louder cries of<br/><span class="quote">>NO, IT DOESN'T COUNT IF IT WAS GROUNDBREAKING BACK THEN, IT HAS TO CONFORM TO MY RAD-LIB STANDARDS OF EQUALITY TODAY! FUCK THE STORY YOU CIS-GENDER HETERO-KIN!!!</span><br/><br/>Whatever, fuck nu-trek, fuck diversity pandering, they should just tell a proper story and not spew identity politics for no reason, because if sexuality is such a big part of your identity, you have no personality. <br/><br/>PS: The new haircut for Seven-of-Nine is ironically regressive compared to the short-hair she originally had. (not to mention the pointless curls. The new actress is also one of 'those' actresses who have the same prissy face and attitude, which is already irritating as it is, but also - considering the original actress for the character being played - clashes horribly with the stoic yet beautiful face from before. <a onclick="highlightReply('4050', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#4050">>>4050</a><br/>pic 1 related<br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('4073', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#4073">>>4073</a><br/><span class="quote">>one of 'those' actresses who have the same prissy face and attitude</span><br/>I realized I may have to clarify this point. What I mean by this is the actress both by her looks, her voice and her manner of speaking, SCREAMS "angsty young adult SI" echoing back to passive aggressive teen flicks from the mid 2010s (like Insurgent). You see the same shit in Brie <span class="spoiler">cheese</span> Larson, you see it in Dark Fats genderbent John Conner ripoff and every other garbage movie and series from the past 5-7 years; neither old or tough enough to emulate a cool independent woman like Ellen Ripley, nor young and natural enough to be someone like Buffy. It's full of this stuffy, falseness a lot of characters (and people IRL) have in America. Even the Barbie-doll attitude of 80s housewives wasn't this plastic. <br/><span class="quote">>Inb4 she's a borg</span><br/>She's not unnatural like a borg, but like a bad actor. Seven of Nine is characterized by her stoic behavior and her attempts to, like Data, integrate with human and alien counterparts better, not act like someone who never grew up from being a snooty college girl.<br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('4054', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#4054">>>4054</a><br/>BTW, Sauce on that reaction pic?
<a onclick="highlightReply('4163', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#4163">>>4163</a><br/>I recently watched ENT and I wonder why it's such a slog to watch. They basically have the right ingrediences, the have the hold writers, a somewhat okay-ish crew, and a decent setup as a prequel series, and we get to see all the first contacts they made with species we all know too well, like with the Romulan Star Empire. We also get to see how the Federation was formed, how the Prime Directive came into being, etc. <br/><br/>In my view, some of the bad elements that trouble NuTrek are already visible to a degree, the less of a focus on ethical/philosophical dilemmas and the over-reliance on nostalgia (it isn't surprising that most of ENT's best episodes are the ones that are references/hommages to past installments), but it was largely contained. <br/><br/>I think they just never knew where to take the show. The Vulcan stuff was good, because it made sense, as the Vulcans were the first aliens humans ever had relations with. But I think the first contact episodes with Klingons and Romulans were largely botched, the whole show didn't really feel like it explored much, the Xindi storyline was pretty generic, etc. - if they started serialized arc about the Terran-Romulan War in season 5 it could have been saved.
<a onclick="highlightReply('4202', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#4202">>>4202</a><br/><span class="quote">>she still has to answer the phone</span><br/>You mean like many modern men do on military ships today? Being a phone operator isn't a bad thing and even if related to "women" what's the issue exactly?<br/><a onclick="highlightReply('4207', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#4207">>>4207</a><br/>That was honestly one of the most interesting scenes, I broke out into clapping when seeing that, just because I was so relieved there wasn't going to be the "yasqueen slay" bullshit and instead approached the situation realistically and intelligently. <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('4208', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#4208">>>4208</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('4206', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#4206">>>4206</a><br/>Interestingly Lorca commanded the ISS Buran… clearly a reference to the Buran Space Shuttle. Lorca is also clearly a revolutionary, considering his attitude against the Emperor. They try to depict him as seeking power, but frankly I sense that, were the show to follow a logical flow, he would turn out to be ideologically Marxist-Leninist…. but of course they had to flanderize him into the villain.
You may have seen this on the chans<br/>Not exactly "trek" related but sci-fi enough on the topic of aliens<br/>This is a picture showing off just about every kind of alien humanity really believes exists irl.<br/><br/><a href="
https://www.strawpoll.me/20225795" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://www.strawpoll.me/20225795</a><br/>Was curious to know what bunkerchan believes is out there<br/>You could pick more than one on this poll btw
<a onclick="highlightReply('5197', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5197">>>5197</a><br/>Nah, the creator seems not that much even into the political scene as his knowledge in the subject is pretty limited.<br/>Some tidbits about the Planters politics:<br/>Cascade<br/><span class="quote">>Despite being a country made through warfare, Cascade is one of the most peaceful of the current superpowers of Tungsten Heart. Two hundred years prior to modern times, the first Cascadians, two medium sized nations that had been rivals, joined together in an alliance and forcibly annexed or pushed out any other nation living around the Cascade Sea. Those who resisted often ended up giving up the futile attempt after seeing how well the annexed subjects were treated- the Cascadians’ terms were generous towards those they conquered, and anyone who embraced their government became full members of the country. The remaining dissidents were eventually defeated and those not killed fled across the lands, mostly ending up as refugees in the Fountain Bloc. </span><br/><span class="quote">>Compared to other Planter countries, Cascade is very centralized and has a government based around delegation of duties- meaning they have roles reminiscent of what humans would call governors, mayors, or other such things. Many Planter ideologies see the idea of one Planter having some form of authority over others as downright tyrannical, but as Planter countries grow in size and population, many are finding such practices to be required for stable, united countries to exist. </span><br/><span class="quote">>Cascadians, while accepting such ideas as delegated leadership, are still very communal and group-based in their way of thinking. Groups of Cascadians who are close with each other will often share a group name and introduce themselves as such, often living out their entire lives within arm’s distance of each other and sharing a place of residence. </span><br/><br/>Fountain Bloc<br/><span class="quote">>Fountain is an alliance of conglomerated smaller states that follow a consensus-based method of governance, where they try to follow the will of the majority of the people, with big issues voted on directly. Most Planter nations hold no value in societal constructs such as written concrete laws and prefer to handle transgressions on a case-by-case basis. Humans may find this to be a risky move with mob-justice running rampant, but Planters have an extremely low rate of infighting and domestic crime, so it is generally a non-issue. </span><br/><span class="quote">>Consensus-based governance does have its issues, however. Compared to a country like Cascade, the Fountainites can be sluggish in rallying their people behind common causes. They may find issues in responding to natural disasters or other crises such as outbreaks. </span><br/><span class="quote">>The Fountainites and Cascadians have had a long-running rivalry since the unification wars in Cascade due to the Fountainites supporting the anti-unification factions of old Cascade. Since Cascade was unified, the Fountainites have been in a semi-cold war with occasional skirmishes between their militaries and various proxy wars, mostly involving the Central Bulwark nations and the people living around Buffer Lake and the Basin. </span><br/><br/>Path Confederation<br/><span class="quote">>Path’s form of governance is somewhere between Fountain and Cascade’s, with some regional delegated leadership but no centralized federal leadership.</span><br/><span class="quote">>While Fountain and Cascade are locked in a continuous conflict with each other, the people of Path are in a constant war against the smaller nations of the Turbid Zone and the Savanna Bulwark.</span>
<a onclick="highlightReply('5123', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5123">>>5123</a><br/>I'm really the only one who picked B, E and H? Have some imagination, guys. We have no fucking idea what's out there. Space is immense beyond our comprehension, the possibilities are almost infinite.<br/><br/>What is unfortunate is that humanity will probably never know.<br/><br/>Think of how extraordinary any alien that was able to physically come into contact with humanity would be. They would have to not only posses the intelligence required to traverse such large distances of space, which by itself is so inhuman <span class="spoiler">(space is VERY anti-human)</span> and a feat that may only exist as fiction to us until our extinction, but they would also have to be remarkably lucky, or with technology so advanced that their scanning sensors make them nearly omnipotent with how well they can detect things across the enormity of space. They would then have to happen across us at the right time. Humans have only been on this planet for 1/20000th of its existence, and have only been civilized for 1/500000th of it. <br/><br/>A species that incredible would have to be something like the Q, without the wit and charm, probably more indifferent to us than anything. We would be like amoeba to them, or perhaps a human mind would go mad trying to comprehend any communication with them. So it will probably never happen, and we will never have qt tesseract-headed quasar alien waifus.
<a onclick="highlightReply('5203', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5203">>>5203</a><br/>I went for ACD. H is sort of co-out which is why I didn't go with it and B is a bit cliche'd not to mention grey aliens are relatively humanoid.<br/><span class="quote">>beyond our comprehension, the possibilities are almost infinite.</span><br/>Well not quite infinite, however very high in terms of variability. Star Trek explored a lot of ideas in terms of alternate life, like a giant cloud of anti-matter being conscious, or crystalline and energy-based beings.<br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5211', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5211">>>5211</a><br/><span class="quote">>would likely parked a spaceship on Earth by now</span><br/>Who's to say they haven't? X-Files may have been fiction but it certainly posed some real possibilities. And besides as <a onclick="highlightReply('5212', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5212">>>5212</a> said, there is evidence of planets capable of supporting life in the Milky Way easily, its just that we don't know any more because probes have to be sent to confirm… Venus might have life, but little is known about that because of the density of the atmosphere and its likely non-sentient.<br/><a href="https://www.rt.com/news/alien-life-on-venus-485/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.rt.com/news/alien-life-on-venus-485/</a><br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5201', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5201">>>5201</a><br/>A cool concept but not worth much until you can put it into some literature, rather than a dry description. Reminder that Star Trek has Posadist themes<br/><span class="quote">>Eugenics Wars involve nuclear exchange</span><br/><span class="quote">>discovering warp drive leads to contact with ayy lmaos</span><br/><span class="quote">>dolphins are part of the starship crew</span><br/><span class="quote"><br/>>In the midst of the worldwide worker and student uprisings in 1968, the Argentine Trotskyist leader known as J. Posadas wrote an essay proposing solidarity between the working class and the alien visitors. He argued that their technological advancement indicated they would be socialists and could deliver us the technology to free Earth from the grip of Yankee imperialism and the bureaucratic workers’ states.</span><br/><span class="quote">>Such views were less fringe and more influential than you might think. Beginning in 1966, the plot of “Star Trek” closely followed Posadas’s propositions. After a nuclear third world war (which Posadas also believed would lead to socialist revolution), Vulcan aliens visit Earth, welcoming them into a galactic federation and delivering replicator technology that would abolish scarcity. Humans soon unify as a species, formally abolishing money and all hierarchies of race, gender and class.</span><br/><a href="
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/24/opinion/make-it-so-star-trek-and-its-debt-to-revolutionary-socialism.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/24/opinion/make-it-so-star-trek-and-its-debt-to-revolutionary-socialism.html</a> (<a href="
http://archive.li/pQjLH" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
http://archive.li/pQjLH</a>) <br/><a href="
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/ufos-dolphins-nuclear-war-and-communism-the-stranger-than-sci-fi-political-party" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/ufos-dolphins-nuclear-war-and-communism-the-stranger-than-sci-fi-political-party</a> <br/><br/>Star Trek had repeated mentions and concept art of Dolphin Ops, taking inspiration from various sources such as Gunbuster. <br/><a href="
https://forgottentrek.com/where-do-i-find-the-dolphins/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://forgottentrek.com/where-do-i-find-the-dolphins/</a> <br/>Unfortunately, they never actually appear in the show due to budgetary restraints, but in a couple of episodes you can see a sign on a door indicating Cetacean Ops (cleverly utilizing the scientific genus for the label). Also the plot of Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home centers around time travel to save the whales, who are the only ones that can understand an alien probe. <br/><br/>This conceptualization of dolphin-human relations is predated by other 60s concepts with Dolphin scientists, for example Larry Niven's WORLD OF PTAVVS (1965). Ironically Larry Kniven's Kzinti (anthro-feline aliens) were integrated into the Star Trek verse as distant cousins of the Caitians, similar to how the Romulans relate to the Vulcans. <br/>The novelized idea of the intelligence of whales appeared prominently in "The Deep Range," a 1954 short story expanded into 1957 novel THE DEEP RANGE, by Arthur C Clark, exanded further with his following novel, Dolphin Island. <br/>This was around the time John C Lilly began his famed experiments in Delphine intelligence (something that lended itself to the creation of shows like Flipper and SeaQuest coming out). In 1987 Doug Michels of the architecture colabo Ant Farm worked on a human/dolphin space station concept called Bluestar. <a href="
https://greg.org/archive/2010/06/01/cue-the-dolphin-embassy.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://greg.org/archive/2010/06/01/cue-the-dolphin-embassy.html</a><br/>A more recent sentient-dolphin/whale fic from 2003, is Fluke by Christopher Moore… a very <em>interesting</em> book of rather interesting concepts and good humor. <a href="
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/33441.Fluke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/33441.Fluke</a><br/>Of course it would be lax to omit the beloved Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy and their hyper-intelligent dolphins: <a href="
https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Dolphins" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Dolphins</a><br/><br/>Back to Star Trek; It was Niven's work which clearly inspired Rick Sternbach who in 1985 illustrated the reprint of Ptavvs and 2 years later was the Senior illustrator and technical consultant of TNG. In 1996 He would be the lead author of the TNG Blueprints release. <br/>Interestingly this biped-aquatic relationship is shared even more closely by an alien civilization, the Xindi. <br/><a href="
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Xindi-Aquatic" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Xindi-Aquatic</a><br/><br/>Now, considering how much nostalgia-baiting and dead-horse-beating and other rubbish plagueing Discovery and Picard, an interesting idea would be to have Dolphin Trek, at least an episode which is entirely from the perspective of the Cetacean Ops crew. Perhaps even describe Dolphin-Human or Dolphin-alien interactions; friendships, differences, relationships etc. Of course this is unlikely to occur for the same reason cat-grills won't (see <a onclick="highlightReply('2195', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2195">>>2195</a>).
Apparently, according to the Galaxy class deck blueprints, as shown on Memory Alpha, Deck 36 houses a "Droid Maintenance" room. A series of convention notes from Rick Sternbach's panel at AnimeCon '91 also mentions it: <em>Going into the bowels of the ship, you will eventually find a door marked DROID MAINTENANCE…</em><br/><br/>The Constitution class Enterprise NCC-1701 did have DOT-7 droids which deployed through portholes in the hull to conduct underway hull maintenance. These have been mentioned in several comic books however we did not see them on screen until Star Trek: Discovery Such Sweet Sorrow. This detail is one of the few good ones introduced by Dscovery, although it is clear they ripped off the designs and scene from The astro-droid repair scene in Phantom Menace.<br/>Pic related is the aforementioned scene featuring DOT-7 Droids performing maintenance. Pic 2 is the Phantom Menace scene. <br/><br/>NCC-1701-D was a self-cleaning ship which likely used robots but they were never seen. According to First Officer Riker:<br/> - BRENNA: Men! Always talking when there's work to be done. And shouldn't you be flying this ship, or whatever it is you do?<br/> - RIKER: Sir, I think I'll stay and give her some help.<br/>(Picard and Worf leave. Riker goes to where Brenna is using hay to clean up what animals leave lying around naturally)<br/> - RIKER: That isn't necessary. The ship will clean itself.<br/> - BRENNA: Well, good for the bloody ship. (long pause as she appraises him) Tell me, Commander Riker, where does a girl go to wash her feet on this ship?<br/><br/>Droids have rarely been featured on screen, and like most custodial workers they simply conduct their maintenance after the work day is done so they don’t disrupt the crew.<br/><br/>Sources: <br/><a href="
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Galaxy_class_decks" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Galaxy_class_decks</a> <br/><a href="
http://stng.36el.com/st-tng/trivia/convention_notes.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
http://stng.36el.com/st-tng/trivia/convention_notes.html</a> <br/><a href="
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/DOT-7" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/DOT-7</a>(A Reposted Edited Compilation) <br/>I'm tired of arguing with imbeciles that think any product of capitalism = a capitalist product. Writers are artists, and artists can express dissent within the system they inhabit. Some of you might be inclined to accuse of letting consumerism blend into ideology, but I think it's important to understand the sheer importance of fiction as a means of ideology. Like a lot of kids from the late 90s-2000's I used to watch Star Trek: Next Generation's old re-runs on the syndicated channels that would run it throughout the night. I used to spend every other week at my more comfortable grandparent's home out in the country because my mother couldn't afford to feed me 2 weeks in a row (I'm not saying this for any measure of sympathy, but for context on how NextGen helped create a system of values that appealed to my situation). <br/><br/>One of the things that struck me about TNG is the honesty, openness, and trust with which the Enterprise is run. There is no reason to be selfish, so people are just not selfish. And also everyone has their role, and even though there is a hierarchy, nobody is treated as a lesser. The conflicts between the characters tend to be very non-toxic. An example (rather overhated in the fandom) is Wesley Crusher, a <span class="spoiler">cute</span>boy genius but he never really rubs it on anyone's face. When he took the test for the academy in season 1, the whole thing was very non-competitive. So much so that he ends up helping the blue waffle alien win. <br/><br/>I could go on for a while about what was special about NextGen, but to save time I'll just say it's one of the reasons I became interested in Marx, Lenin and the rest, it was useful. Obviously after the mental deterioration of actual-communist Gene Roddenberry and the network coup under Rick Berman, the franchise declined back into precisely what it was a critique of: Last Man Visions of the Future. Nowhere is this more evident than modern trek: a thinly disguised action-series that falls for every trope, implies the existence of money in a post-scarcity earth, and the use of an underclass of slave androids that were proved sentient back in NextGen. It's the vision of a future that only progresses insofar that it achieves a flashier setting, but human society and culture remains as barbaric and retarded as before. like a typical cyberpunk series. Star Trek originally was one of the few things to come out of Western popular culture that rejected TINA (There Is No Alternative) and futurist 'capitalist realism' themes. The genuine curiosity of the characters, the commitment to life, to science, to friendship, display truly liberated humans, who achieve this and yet retain their humanity. <br/><br/>Sadly shows with this kind of vision of the future are always an outlier and often hobbled by the problems of going against the current. Television is the art form that functions most like the factory, or perhaps the office, it's not very surprising that it would tend toward capitalist propaganda naturally. And the longer a franchise goes on the higher the likelihood of it reverting to the mean. Moreover the original TOS posed itself with Federation vs the Klingon which was an allusion to the USA and USSR. <br/><br/>There's also the reason Star Trek flourished during the darkest years of the Cold War and neoliberalism. It presents the idea of a peaceful, post-scarcity utopia without considering how it came to be. Because Star Trek conspicuously leaves out the most important idea of Marx: the idea of the proletariat as the revolutionary subject of modern history. Without this, any 'radical' message the shows could offer is sufficiently defused and it's permissible to show on network television. Of course given the futurism it is clearly not going to be set in revolutionary or immediate-post-revolutionary times, however this is still a major reason why the parallels to communism are not immediate in many people's minds. In-universe, they abolished the Law of Value by abolishing labor as the source of all value through replicators, obviously a bit different from our reality, which is why Star Trek was never revolutionary but it was definitely progressive.<br/><br/>Clearly Trek is lost to the ghoulish pinheads that don't give a damn about a vision for human achievement, because they don't get any schmeckels. <br/>The point is, that shows like Star Trek are important to help people envision a future that isn't just a flashier, spacier, capitalism, but rather to face that history moves in stages, and that by no means should this be our final vision for the collective project we all share. Regardless of how actually productive it is; Fiction has demonstrated that it's one of the best vehicles for ideological conversion, so what fictional narratives are like OldTrek and have the potential to inspire on the same level? How do we create narratives that are popular enough to shatter the Last Man vision of the future? These are the questions we must ask when we create media that is ideologically vetted and must be created while focusing on values, freedom, self-fulfillment and other positive growth instead of NuTrek "lol im gay in space" liberalism that the new creators seem adamant at pushing. <br/><br/>However We should not be sad Trek has been put in the ground, but be glad it happened at all and carry its messages in our hearts and minds. As to sources of new visions, turn to books or other arts with low capital intensity. Less capitalist incentives, higher chance of intelligent outliers. <br/><br/>PS.<br/><span class="quote">>Last Man Visions of the Future</span><br/>What does "Last Man visions of the future" mean? It is the concept of mankind being able to envision society advancing in technology, but practically everything else remains the same, and the Liberal Capitalist Democracy is the final structure of human society. When you really go back to classic Western sci-fi you read, almost all of them imagine wild futures with awesome technology and completely alien future cultures. And yet for some inexplicable reason neoliberal capitalism still remains as the only way forward. Take this one shitty story for example. Biological immortality and world peace has been achieved, improbable FLT tech allows everyone to travel the stars, and scarcity is a thing of the past. But somehow all of this started with neoliberal capitalism making everything better with author fiats. <br/><a href="
https://robinhanson.typepad.com/files/three-worlds-collide.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://robinhanson.typepad.com/files/three-worlds-collide.pdf</a><br/><span class="quote">>Akon's eyes slid away from the hot gaze of the unmixed man; there was something wrong about the thread of anger still there in the memory after five hundred years.</span><br/><span class="quote">>"But time passed," the Confessor said, "time moved forward, and things changed." The eyes were no longer focused on Akon, looking now at something far away. "There was an old saying, to the effect that while someone with a single bee sting will pay much for a remedy, to someone with five bee stings, removing just one sting seems less attractive. That was humanity in the ancient days. There was so much wrong with the world that the small resources of altruism were splintered among ten thousand urgent charities, and none of it ever seemed to go anywhere. And yet… and yet…"</span><br/><span class="quote">>"There was a threshold crossed somewhere," said the Confessor, "without a single apocalypse to mark it. Fewer wars. Less starvation. Better technology. The economy kept growing. People had more resource to spare for charity, and the altruists had fewer and fewer causes to choose from. They came even to me, in my time, and rescued me. Earth cleaned itself up, and whenever something threatened to go drastically wrong again, the whole attention of the planet turned in that direction and took care of it. Humanity finally got its act together."</span><br/>Most fiction works never address how this “threshold” even is, somehow capitalism was able to go forward without ever solving its internal contractions and future is magically achieved. We must always be mindful of this pitfall.
What is your personal take on the Prime Directive from a leftist stance?<br/><a href="
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Prime_Directive" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Prime_Directive</a><br/><br/>Interesting articles on the matter <br/><a href="
http://archive.is/bgGLP" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
http://archive.is/bgGLP</a><br/><a href="
http://www.letswatchstartrek.com/2013/08/20/when-the-prime-directive-is-wrong-by-matt-sheean/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
http://www.letswatchstartrek.com/2013/08/20/when-the-prime-directive-is-wrong-by-matt-sheean/</a><br/>Ironically an episode of The Orville also demonstrates an example of why violating this may be a poor idea. <br/><a href="
https://orville.fandom.com/wiki/Mad_Idolatry" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://orville.fandom.com/wiki/Mad_Idolatry</a><br/><br/>As a side note in reference to the conversation caused by <a onclick="highlightReply('5123', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5123">>>5123</a> , perhaps a concept like the Prime Directive, is why advanced alien races do not interact with us and hide their presence? If so, it halts Posadist thought and some of its hopes for dolphins <a onclick="highlightReply('5217', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5217">>>5217</a>
<a onclick="highlightReply('5384', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5384">>>5384</a><br/><span class="quote">>a specific construct made by the hominid the follow one of the abrahamic faiths</span><br/>Nope. Abrahamic god is called Yahweh. God is an English word with an etymology spanning centuries but the definition of which is near universal to the religions, faiths and ideas of people the world over. The idea of god would not be unusual to a different sapient race given the origin of gods and mythology in the first place - culture and history passed down orally for centuries until society evolves to the point of accurate historic recording rather than legends. This is part of dialectical progression. Culture is made up of its legends and mythology as much as its science and technology. How this relates to the Prime Directive is demonstrated in the afore mentioned Orville episode Mad Idolatry <a onclick="highlightReply('5282', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5282">>>5282</a><br/><span class="quote">>its a concept</span><br/>No shit, it is a metaphysical concept of a being that is above humans in ability and mind. <br/><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceptions_of_God" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceptions_of_God</a> <br/>The idea of a human being godly is ridiculous because it is a concept of perfection over humans. This is the lesson of both futuristic and past and fantasy literature and film, that no man can play god without abandoning their humanity, in which case they are no longer human, like Dr.Manhattan from Watchen. in Star Trek Q is a god-like being who can intervene in time, history and dimensions because he generally has the omnipotence and omniscience to do so with little risk to the universe. Just because the conventional human view on god and religion no longer holds them in the same capacity as they did in the past, does not make the classification or definitions and lessons invalid. <br/><span class="quote">>You are choosing to leave less advanced worlds be because of your own beliefs, this is a paradox</span><br/>No it isn't, not believing in a god does not make something like god-complex disappear or the idea that acting rashly when you cannot assuredly control the variables is to be foolish. Star Trek demonstrates this numerous times, which is why Picard is so reluctant to do so, even if he does use loopholes when he can, he understands the consequences are unpredictable and are just as likely to worsen things as they re to improve them. You cannot take a venture like changing the path of history for a being unless you know that your meddling will not cause even greater loss. An exception would possibly be when a species is quite literally going to self-destruct.<br/><span class="quote">>what do you think is meant when we say humans were helped by "aliens" ? </span><br/><span class="quote">>What do you think aliens are in this context?</span><br/>I understood that and I addressed it indirectly. If aliens did come to humanity in its distant past, what evidence do we have that it helped improve or speed up the progression of humanity? Unless you're implying that aliens created us, which does not have much basis considering how evolution works. It is nothing short of postulation regardless.<br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5385', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5385">>>5385</a><br/><span class="quote">>Most of their work post-Soviet</span><br/>Yeah, unfortunately <a onclick="highlightReply('2196', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2196">>>2196</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('2217', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2217">>>2217</a><br/>Speaking of fetishes Star Trek's malleability in regards to bending the laws of science has made it perfect for those kinds of explorations, and Star Trek has never shied away from lewd situations, with numerous episodes across the decades involving things from diseases that incite irrational thinking and lust, to energy beings that impregnate people with their consciousness, to alien sex-slavers, to cat-girls, to people trying to make their virtual waifus real, and lesbian kissing and sexy stretches. <br/>So there is plenty of precedent for lewds and fetishes as well as plenty of transport shenanigans. <br/>Given this, how would you incorporate your fetish into a Star Trek episode and do it subtly enough for it to air on television? What concepts and ideas would you like to see the show explore? <br/>In my case something interesting to cover would be Lycanthropy (pic 1) - in other words becoming a werewolf (or any other were-creature). <br/>- Perhaps its an alien adaptation by a species which hunts at night and rests and does more mental activities during the day, transforming back and forth in synchronization. <br/>- Or it could be a disease which ravages people and forces them to change according to a lunar cycle, and that it becomes dangerous if not kept closely scheduled; a crew stranded on an alien planet without communication and/or proper chronometery would have to rely on their personal bonds and knowledge to deal with this problem in one of their fellow crewmen. <br/>This idea of course comes with the stereotypical animal behaviors and body features, among other stuff that gets fetishized to that purpose. <span class="spoiler">the furries win again</span> <br/>After all, the idea of an alien Werewolf isn't new either, with a prominent example being Loboans from Ben 10.<br/><a href="https://ben10.fandom.com/wiki/Loboan" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://ben10.fandom.com/wiki/Loboan</a> (pic 2) NEW STAR TREK SHOW FUCKING LMAO 🤣 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣<br/><a href="
https://youtu.be/V3RkBKedKWw" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://youtu.be/V3RkBKedKWw</a><a onclick="highlightReply('6746', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#6746">>>6746</a><br/>Shit I was just going to post about that. Honestly its like they mashed a really good Star Trek cartoon with a Rick and Morty parody episode I swear. <br/><br/>To repost a good analysis on the matter, "<em>The problem with the animation isn’t that it’s horrible, it’s that it’s stylistically inconsistent. The starships and backgrounds are gorgeous and generally realistic; the people are drawn as caricatures. This is (a) jarring to the eye, and (b) a design choice that appears to be in line with the character of the humor. And the character of the humor appears to be of the “let’s make the characters look and act (relatively) stupid” school that has been dominating animated comedy for the past two decades or so.</em>" <br/><br/>Its a sort-of funny space adventure cartoon… but its not really Star Trek. Also the main character - judging by the trailer/image - (the black girl) is the least interesting character shown, yet she's the spotlight along with her white "sidekick". She's obnoxious and dangerous (nearly frying her 'friend' with a Phaser set to KILL, yet lacking any defining quirks. Even her 'sidekick' (unironically named [b]Boi[/b]mler FFS) has more intrigue, with his dream to be a captain, something she laughs at. Like I get it, this is a kid's cartoon, but this is Teen Titan's Go tier "humor". The upper-deck officers/crew also behave like utter assholes with no respect for fellow crew-mates and unprofessional denigration of their position at the lower-decks. This is all in marked contrast to the other main cast; The short-haired Orion girl Tendi* shows promise in her excitedly innocent behaviour, the old cat-doctor also seems to have a grumpy-wise-guy-who-cares trope, and the other characters seem to be to have their own quirks and abilities at least, so hopefully they won't be too one-dimensional with them.<br/><br/>Also FFS they named the Captain "Freeman" and the Commander "Ransom" and the Main Character I was talking about? "Mariner"… This is like a parody of G.I. Joe names. And Tendi… for fucks sake the 'chicken tendy' meme has been dead for years.
<a onclick="highlightReply('6798', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#6798">>>6798</a><br/><span class="quote">>the main character</span><br/>&ltMariner<br/>Just to add, the authors had this to say, she's, <em>"very good at all things Starfleet, she just doesn’t care (and has been demoted several times)… just wants to ride her skateboard and eat her piece of pizza in peace, man"</em><br/>Like ok, fine you like skateboarding in pizza, then fine, but what the fuck was the point of becoming a crewman? Or accepting promotions in the first-place? She's clearly not old enough to be the kind of person to rise in the ranks before a mid-life crisis, money and living expenses are not an issue in Star Trek, and it's shown that a lot of people on board such vessels are just passengers or residents, not actual crew. This is the kind of lackadaisical characterization that breaks the story, since this is behaviour that teens relate to TODAY, not centuries in the federation's future. And this "she's really good at everything, but people don;t like her 'risks'" is the most cliche Mary Sue shite. Its not nearly as bad as other Mary Sues of the past 3-5 years, but it certainly is shit nonetheless. <br/><br/>Rutheford and Boimler on the other hand are actually Star Trek characters. The latter is good at the theory, but is crap at practical application and thinking outside the box which he needs to get to his dream of Captain. The Former is already an officer and with talent, but lacking experience needed to solve some problems, a Geordi la Forge, beginner version. The name Rutheford is also an ironic nod to Rutheford.
Critical Drinker covered it recently: <a href="
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctHFNIhitTk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctHFNIhitTk</a> <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('6890', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#6890">>>6890</a><br/>Netflix and just about all other major streaming services refused to air it… the like to dislike ratio was 1:4 prior to being hidden. <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('6822', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#6822">>>6822</a><br/>Stealing is their bread and butter m8, having original ideas is like garlic for vampires with them. <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('6747', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#6747">>>6747</a><br/>More like a shitty Future Space TBH
<a onclick="highlightReply('7810', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#7810">>>7810</a><br/>This is terrible. Strip the essence and just the aesthetics remain. What's the point of making a children's show that has nothing to do with star trek except being "in the same universe". Probably wanting for children to get hooked to star trek "fandom". You can tell there won't be any moral dilemmas, no "can Data have feelings?", no "we respect all lifeforms as equals", no "there are some things that are beyond our comprehension", no ironic or unironic 3d chess, no "cultures are different and multiculturalism is a bitch, but enlightened societies do all that's possible to make it work", etc.<br/>Not that Star Trek is perfect in those regards, far from it IMO, but when it tries to do the above it is actually good.
<a onclick="highlightReply('5282', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5282">>>5282</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5290', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5290">>>5290</a> <br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5375', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5375">>>5375</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5386', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5386">>>5386</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('6922', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#6922">>>6922</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('7913', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#7913">>>7913</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('7916', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#7916">>>7916</a> <br/>As the show goes on longer it begins to have contradictions and issues. For example; Captain Picard Faces the Ramifications of Prime Directive S07E13 <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vweupyFB9Xk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vweupyFB9Xk</a><br/><br/>To quote Jarl Knudsen, <em>The Prime Directive, as originally intended, was about political non-interference. The Federation could make contact with, trade with, and otherwise interact with alien cultures, so long as they didn't meddle in their internal affairs. They could provide disaster relief, education, and even technological assistance - and even had digression to interfere in the case of arrested cultures, ie, the culture was not developing at all. See "Return of the Archons", "The Omega Glory", "Errand of Mercy", and "The Apple" for examples of this.</em> <br/><em>In this way, the Prime Directive was a measured and well-considered reaction to European colonialism and especially to US foreign policy in the 20th century.</em> <br/><em>Carried to an extreme, however, the non-interference policy became an impediment to the ideals of the show. So something as basic and morally praiseworthy as disaster relief now violates this newly exaggerated ethical code. A species could even be wiped from existence by an extinction-level event and with a straight face, this is considered the "natural course of evolution". Somehow the possibility that a primitive alien might gain knowledge of interstellar life is considered far worse than if that alien, and its entire species, is obliterated. Dwell on that for a second.</em> <br/><em>In real life, it would be nearly miraculous to find alien life at all, and even more so to find complex and intelligent life. It would be a crime against science to no try to preserve that life should it face extinction, given how extremely rare and unique extra-terrestrial life is.</em> <br/><br/>The caveats and issues of this is that <br/>- We have to take extreme care to not accidentally get Earth bacteria onto alien planets. Like mars, where we hope to find alien life. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_contamination" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_contamination</a> and in TNG there are numerous interplanetary diseases with no cure <br/>- Civilizations that have reached the point of intergalactic space travel will likely be either completely non-interventionist, or just have utter disregard for individual, and species based morality and empathy over logic and calculations.*<br/><br/>*Even with advanced technology, it won't really be possible to predict the future with 100% certainty. This means if 'aliens' care for life, they aren't going to interfere, for fear of making things worse. So, what about an extinction level event you say? Well, the principle still applies. The universe is chaotic in nature, therefore you can never be sure of the ultimate outcome of any action. Imagine if 65 million years ago, aliens came and saw an asteroid coming here, and said "oh no, the dinosaurs will be toasted, let's save them for science!". Then we wouldn't be here and instead bird-people would be a possible civilization. Now, a universe with dinosaurs still here may not be any better, but who can say what's better. You would have to have an uncaring god-complex to do that. I believe that some aliens are likely to be at least a little bit benevolent, therefore will leave us alone. A tough policy, but ultimately you don't want to be playing god because you never know if your going to make things worse. It may not be easy to see or appreciate though, especially with a extinction event, but it's the ultimate humbling to admit you don't know what's best for life or the universe. <br/><br/>Then again, humanity changes and grows and our actions are in some ways he action of the universe, so who is to say that we cannot be part of the universe's changes. Otherwise, this utter die-hard non-intervention would mean that no action or non-action is right, which is bullshit reminiscent of Categorical Imperative (screencap related). Dealing in Absolutes is an impossibility, precisely due to the prior mentioned chaotic structure of the Universe. No matter how structured a civilization may be within itself, outside forces affect it regardless and are impartial factors. The whole Malthusian, let X die for Y to live is a flawed reasoning. To paraphrase Homeworld Cataclysm: <em>"Look at yourselves! The aloof, the mighty enlightened Federation! Standing by with indifference while millions die. All because you're terrified you might contaminate their culture. You're worse than the Borg! At least the Borg don't pretend to be righteous!"</em><br/><br/>Both extremes of this question are equally idiotic; Saving a civilization from a natural disaster that is completely beyond their ability to survive isn't the same as taking over and creating some planetwide Nanny State. It is what the the Buddhists call The Middle Way. To help figure out what to do in these situations sometimes it is important to scale it down to an individual level - Fractal Morality.<br/>Examples:<br/><span class="quote">>1: </span><br/>World ending disaster that they can't stop on their own = a person who's trapped under a car after an accident. You're not playing God to save them, you're just being a decent person acting the extremely safe assumption that the person wants to continue living. <br/><span class="quote">>2: </span><br/>potentially quite horrible and possibly world ending disaster that they can fix, but are having difficulty with = a person (maybe a friend) going through some struggles in life and finding it hard to push through. What can you do? offer your advice, or direct help if you're feeling generous enough, and leave it to them to decide whether or not they listen to/accept it.<br/><span class="quote">>3: </span><br/>They're being invaded by another civilization that will either steal their resources or exterminate them = someone being mugged or murdered. Then, unless you're a worthless coward, you intervene to save them from the attacker if you're able to. <br/>As was the original point of the Prime Directive (and breaking it) you need to think about different situations individually and do your best to figure out what the best course of action is. Can a person make a wrong decision? /<br/>Of course, we are human, which is why Officers and captains of Star Trek crews are so rigorously tested before promotion.<br/><br/>This entire debate of intervention and non-intervention was the whole point of Star Trek's episodic plots, like Measure of a Man <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjCytqku18M" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjCytqku18M</a> where the question of Data's humanity and sentience is questioned but not truly definitely answered. A similar debate is seen in iRobot <a onclick="highlightReply('3156', event);" href="/hobby/res/1782.html#3156">>>3156</a> <a onclick="highlightReply('2217', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2217">>>2217</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('6336', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#6336">>>6336</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('2196', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2196">>>2196</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('2195', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2195">>>2195</a><br/>Canonically it is possible. A talented engineer/programmer can configure a transporter to change people/beings into alternate forms. What a genius prank to turn everyone who comes through the transporter into a catgirl. I'm wondering how many people would be happy to remain in that form. There's a LOT of "transporter lore" across all of the franchise, including the movies, that just makes the tech God Magic. <br/><br/>TNG did a lot of stuff with the transporter that should have changed society. Take Rascals. Shitty episode, except for that part where Keiko tells O'Brien she still expects him to rail her, even if she's a child. But by the end they all change back. I can sort of get that if you're as young as Ro, but Picard? Why the fuck would Picard go back to his original age if he could just get an extra lifetime's worth of time? They didn't lose mental faculties, and the only problem was physical. But this is the Federation. People will still respect you if you have the body of a child. One character has this dumb line of "maybe you can go back to the Academy". Why? That wouldn't happen. He'd stay Captain. All they needed to do was add one line with "oh, and this will kill you". <br/><br/>It's notably strange that they never added some throw-away lines like they did for other possible plotholes/OP abilities. <br/><span class="quote">>we can only do this once </span><br/><span class="quote">>we need the energy of a supernova for this</span><br/><span class="quote">>using this practically would be dangerous</span><br/><br/>Another TNG episode where some of the crew is infected with an aggressive virus that ages them … then they filter their DNA with a sample of pre-infection and return everyone to the age of the DNA sample. Immortality machine right there. Keep some DNA in stasis from your childhood and return to the age of 7 or 12 or 15 anytime you want, all knowledge and memories intact from when you were 110 or something. And unlike modern genetic engineering which is unreliable and with side-effects, there are no medical reasons to not do this. In fact, that episode alone tells you that you can take any DNA sample, genetically engineer it, then run yourself through the transporter with that as a filter and you come out the other side … in any form the DNA wants you to. Augmented, remove all aging, remove all disease, correct all radiation damage, remove & correct all genetic defects, etc. <br/>For Example: Imagine you are Guinan (or anyone of her race). You are returned to the age of 10 or 13 after being 400 years old, all memories intact. You get to start life over again with a life expectancy of 500 or 600 years, near infinitely. <br/><br/>The Federation would WANT to use the tech this way. You can indefinitely preserve all that experience and training, completely revitalize your aging officers and research scientists for another 100 years at every go. Want/Need a clone of yourself? Trivial to split yourself at any age into two or a dozen yourselves. Why not 1000? Instant fleet of soldiers, starship captains, doctors, catgirls, whatever you need. <br/>Personally, I would transform into a catgirl, live an entire lifetime as one, then revert to another form and live another lifetime. Feel like you were born the wrong gender? Transform yourself into any sex you want, any beauty you want, any age you want, any time you want. For free. The tech is simple and, literally, as cheap as water to operate. <br/><br/>However Star Trek in the end, is about humanity exploring the stars. And aliens that are really just a lot like various facets of humanity. The transporter was something they made up because the shuttle models hadn't been delivered yet, and then they realized they could use it as a nice vehicle for outlandish science fiction plots. There's that episode where a transporter malfunction creates two Kirks, and it has the facade of it being Good and Evil Kirk, until it turns out "Good" Kirk is indecisive and seemingly cowardly. Great episode that makes a great point. You can take away from that that the transporter, if configured correctly, could just be used to copy a person, but that was never really the point. A better example was in TNG where Riker was split into two identical people that only diverged in experience & memory after they were split. I really liked how they didn't do that as a one-off and that the "other Riker" was featured in several more episodes, including in DS9. Voyager had a fascinating take on two people (Neelix & Tuvok) getting merged into a single person, albeit with a "helper" organism. And then being able to be separated, with each retaining the memory of their time as a combined entity.<br/><br/>TL;DR: Federation transporter tech would make changing bodies, cloning, merging, de-aging, and other stuff as trivial as just using the transporter on its own and there are no stated caveats to this.
<a onclick="highlightReply('8864', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#8864">>>8864</a><br/><span class="quote">>it was genuinely funny and true to Star Trek</span><br/>Ok CBS-fag, go back to reddit. <br/><span class="quote">>It blows STD and STP out of the water.</span><br/>The only reason it's 'better' than those shows is because it's a cartoon and has less obligations than a series or movie does thus allowing for relaxed expectations. It's still shit from its first scene.<br/><br/>An annoying idiot with no sense of maturity and drinking on duty while transporting an OPEN box of WEAPONS, then fucks around with them and seriously injures her crewmate. That's moronic and annoying. <em>"Oh but she's just rebellious, she's totally good at things despite following no protocols or rules.</em>" That is being a Mary Sue, and a shoddy one at that, she's not being cutely naughty or some shit, she's being outright negligent. And then the serious injury (seriously man she cut an artery for sure) is forgotten about in the next scene. This is the kind of endangerment that would get me locked in a cabin on a ship for the duration of the voyage. <br/><br/>Humour me. Just for fun, reverse these characters. He's drunk and starts climbing all over a female ensign, then attacks her with a lethal weapon. Who thinks that's funny? It's the kind of shit that gets you a jail sentence today. <br/><br/>The whole "muh uncaring bureaucracy" shit and the main character being 'le rebel' Mary Sue who is "always right" and "knows things" is just shite. The part where Officers are all pretentious glory hound idiots who act like college dude-bros is shit. The part with "le officers get all the credit" is also shite. It's exactly the problem of "The Last Man" vision which I talked about <a onclick="highlightReply('5279', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5279">>>5279</a> because it takes modern capitalist hierarchy + problems and plasters it onto the futurist Aesthetic of Star Trek. It's just like the JJ Abrams movies and STD and STP. Even Orville did a better parody of Trek than this. This is just taking the Rick and Morty schtick of mocking Sci-Fi and taking it unironically. The only thing that might make it bad enough to be funny again, is if they actively put in Rick and Morty references, like the Interstellar Demon Dino Stripper. <br/><br/>The Orion Girl and T'Ana the caitian doctor are the only ones who I like, because the former is a shining beacon of positivity who radiates the optimism of the original Star Trek and the latter is a sarcastic but likeable grumpy cat(girl). Rutheford has some potential but the way his scenes are played resemble Family Guy humor done WORSE somehow, like they don't even let the punchlines sink in and just rush ahead. The only thing this show will be good for is pron and memes.
<a onclick="highlightReply('8868', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#8868">>>8868</a><br/>It's a comedy cartoon show, you autist.<br/><span class="quote">>An annoying idiot with no sense of maturity and drinking on duty while transporting an OPEN box of WEAPONS, then fucks around with them and seriously injures her crewmate. That's moronic and annoying.</span><br/>It's called slapstick humour. <br/><span class="quote">>"Oh but she's just rebellious, she's totally good at things despite following no protocols or rules." That is being a Mary Sue, and a shoddy one at that, she's not being cutely naughty or some shit, she's being outright negligent.</span><br/>You call her a Mary Sue, but then call her negligent. Besides, she has told you she's served on 5 ships, been to Klingon prison, etc. etc. the joke there is that even after a few years of service you see a lot of shit, case in point: Farpoint. <br/><span class="quote">>And then the serious injury (seriously man she cut an artery for sure) is forgotten about in the next scene.And then the serious injury (seriously man she cut an artery for sure) is forgotten about in the next scene.</span><br/>It's Star Trek dude, they cure cancer by waving a light stick at a person.<br/><span class="quote">>This is the kind of endangerment that would get me locked in a cabin on a ship for the duration of the voyage. </span><br/>Funny cartoon, not serious ST show.<br/><span class="quote">>It's the kind of shit that gets you a jail sentence today. </span><br/>Go back to reading Jordan Peterson and fighting chaos dragons.<br/><span class="quote">>The whole "muh uncaring bureaucracy" shit and the main character being 'le rebel' Mary Sue who is "always right" and "knows things" is just shite.</span><br/>Have you ever seen an episode of Star Trek? Kirk demoted himself so he can steal the Enterprise. Picard often goes against admirals and Federation bureaucracy. Fucking Kira! Sisko too, he really doesn't give a shit about Starfleet regulations, but more often acting as a Bajoran messiah than Starfleet captain.<br/><span class="quote">>The part where Officers are all pretentious glory hound idiots who act like college dude-bros is shit.</span><br/>That's the best part. Because that's HOW THEY REALLY ARE. I recommend you watch TNG again. Riker gets on the Enterprise and he's gunning for the captain's chair. Riker rejects promotions because on Enterprise it's more exciting, read: more chance of glory. Glory and history are big themes in Star Trek. Then you had that elite Delta squad or whatever they were called, that Wesley joined and they were all about glory. Then in DS9 Nog joins that rogue Defiant, with a crew in search of… glory.<br/><span class="quote">>The part with "le officers get all the credit" is also shite.</span><br/>More like true. When do they commend anyone but bridge/engine officers in Star Trek? Ensigns are expendable. Remember when they convince that young Bajoran ensign to volounteer for a mission that was almost certainly suicide?<br/><span class="quote">>it takes modern capitalist hierarchy + problems and plasters it onto the futurist Aesthetic of Star Trek.</span><br/>Oh no, the autist forgot what year it was and now he's angry that Marx was right about base-superstructure and that capitalist realism is a thing. Womp womp.<br/><span class="quote">>Even Orville did a better parody of Trek than this.</span><br/>Orville isn't a parody, it's a Star Trek show with some jokes thrown in. MacFarlane is a huge ST fan and he wanted to make a ST show, he sold it to FOX as a comedy because FOX bought comedies from him before, they probably wouldn't let him do a serious show. <br/><span class="quote">>The only thing that might make it bad enough to be funny again, is if they actively put in Rick and Morty references, like the Interstellar Demon Dino Stripper. </span><br/>hahaha, you're actually angry STLD is not more like Rick and Morty. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA<br/><span class="quote">>The Orion Girl and T'Ana the caitian doctor are the only ones who I like</span><br/><span class="quote">>The only thing this show will be good for is pron and memes.</span><br/>You're just a sex-starved incel who is unable to see female characters beyond what they can provide in way of sexual gratification.
<a onclick="highlightReply('8877', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#8877">>>8877</a><br/>I know comedy and slapstick rather well given that I studied both Slap-stick comedy of the slient-era and of cartoons like Tex Avery and others. This isn't slapstick, its just "random action = funny hurr"<br/><span class="quote">>call her a Mary Sue, but then call her negligent</span><br/>That isn't a contradiction. She behaves negligently but gets no seen consequences, and her actions that are clearly endangering have no permanent effect, it might as well be Looney Toons… which doesn't work with STAR TREK. The original Star Trek animation, despite its age and lack of budget still had plenty of humor and slapstick but it never took away the core ideas of Star Trek (pic 2 related). <br/><span class="quote">>she has told you she's served on 5 ships, been to Klingon prison</span><br/>Yes she TOLD us… that she served on 5 ships at the age of what 20-25? She certainly doesn't look 30 if her mother is the ship captain and is barely graying. And the part about the prison is retarded, its the kind of shit fake-tough people on the street claim when they try to scare someone. Nobody who goes to jail brags about it like she does. Also the very fact that the idea of Street-Cred stopped existing long before the events of the show, is idiotic, not to mention her "smuggling" as if this was Star Wars and the Federation ISN'T keeping track of every fucking ware they bring planetside. <br/><span class="quote">>the joke there is that even after a few years of service you see a lot of shit</span><br/>That isn't a joke, its not even humor. It just comes off as a really poor attempt at "le experienced rebel" schtick. An example of this done right is Irresponsible Captain Taylor, the difference is that his actions are justified with more than just "haha lol I'm so random and know things!"<br/><span class="quote">>they cure cancer by waving a light stick at a person</span><br/>Cancer does not cause death within a few minutes. A cut artery results in massive bloodloss and eventually death, which is possible if they don't reach the medical bay in time, which is possible since the ships is large AF. That's not to mention possible sepsis from uncleaned weapons, which wouldn't be unusual given her drunken leniency. Even if its all easily healed, its not even REFERRED to in the following episode, which makes the entire scene pointless. <br/><span class="quote">>Funny cartoon, not serious ST show</span><br/>This is bordering on the "made for kids" dismissal. <br/><span class="quote">>reading Jordan Peterson and fighting chaos dragons</span><br/>No argument faggot<br/><span class="quote">>Have you ever seen an episode of Star Trek</span><br/>Yes, unlike you clearly<br/><span class="quote">>Kirk demoted himself so he can steal the Enterprise</span><br/>Yeah thsi is what tels me you don't know what you're talking about<br/>1) That was a film not the actual TV series<br/>2) He was demoted FOR stealing it, he didn't demote himself<br/>3) He did it in pursuit of his friend and did it with a voluntary crew he knew. <br/><span class="quote">>Picard often goes against admirals and Federation bureaucracy</span><br/>But he does so without outright breaking the rules, or with a good reason. He doesn't randomly mock his superiors because "fuck le bureacracy" like some 20th century street punk. <br/><span class="quote">>really doesn't give a shit about Starfleet regulations, but more often acting as a Bajoran messiah than Starfleet captain.</span><br/>Yeah I don't know where you pulled that shit out of, even your ass isn't big enough for that. Stop reading reddit shitposts seriously<br/><span class="quote">>When do they commend anyone but bridge/engine officers in Star Trek </span><br/>They do so several times, but because the show was limited to a very small cast outside of occasional guests and generic background people, they could only do that. It has nothing to do with le bureacracy and everything to do with a simple budget issue. Its a television series not a full budget film, and we follow our main crew and their interactions and actions. Moreover we do get several such commendations and other actions, such as in the EPISODE Lower Decks. <br/><span class="quote">>they convince that young Bajoran ensign to volounteer for a mission that was almost certainly suicide? </span><br/>LOL ok, libertarian, sorry that serving as a crewmember comes with responsibilities that you may accept. <br/><span class="quote">>the autist forgot what year it was and now he's angry that Marx was right</span><br/>&ltHurr base-superstructure pseud-shit is totally an argument<br/>You're an idiot who didn't read the post being referred to. Nice strawman<br/><span class="quote">>Orville isn't a parody, it's a Star Trek show with some jokes thrown in</span><br/>You have to be a schizophrenic, I swear. <br/>Parody: <em>an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect.</em><br/>1) Orville MOCKS and IMITATES many facets of Star Trek, BUT its inherent depiction is far more light-hearted and parodical than actual Star Trek. It still manages to carry across serious ideas and concepts.<br/>2) It isn't an ACTUAL Star Trek show and was made by Seth some time after CBS refused to let him make a show. This makes it a PARODY. <br/><span class="quote">>he's a fan</span><br/>So? How does that disprove my point? His comedic imitation of Star Trek is better than any Star Trek media in the past decade at least. <br/><span class="quote">>You're just a sex-starved incel</span><br/>Nice argument cunt. <br/><span class="quote">>unable to see female characters beyond what they can provide in way of sexual gratification</span><br/>T'Ana is a literal GRUMPY OLD CAT DOCTOR, that was my main emphasis. She's not exactly sexy in the conventional sense and I like her no-nonsense character. The fact that she's a Caitian is a plus because they're a favorite of mine since M'ress and their various cameos over the series. If I was "sex-starved" I wouldn't think the "caitians" in JJ Abram's movies were shite. <br/>I was also very specific that I like Tendi because she's exactly the representation of Star Trek's ideals and stand out in the cast because of it, I mentioned nothing about her being sexy or some other shit. I mentioned memes and pron because the actual show is shite and brings nothing new or intelligent to the table, and will thus only generate memes and rule34, and nothing else, just like any other brainless show with shallow attempts at messages. <br/><br/>PS Your obscure and outdated references to Jordan Peterson and "muh incels" while rabidly defending the snarky narcissist of an MC, leads me to believe you're projecting and can't stand to see someone talk shit about your "waifu"<br/><br/>TL;DR: You're a salty liberal with no argument and no understanding of Trek.
<a onclick="highlightReply('8883', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#8883">>>8883</a><br/><span class="quote">>I know comedy and slapstick rather well given that I studied both Slap-stick comedy of the slient-era and of cartoons like Tex Avery and others. </span><br/>lol<br/><span class="quote">>Nobody who goes to jail brags about it like she does. </span><br/>Have you ever seen an episode of Star Trek? Do you know of a character called Tom Paris?<br/><span class="quote">>not to mention her "smuggling" as if this was Star Wars and the Federation ISN'T keeping track of every fucking ware they bring planetside.</span><br/>Go watch DS9.<br/><span class="quote">>his actions are justified with more than just "haha lol I'm so random and know things!"</span><br/>But she's not a captain, or in any high position, she was demoted to ensign, despite her mom being a captain and her dad being an admiral. It means she is an undisciplined fuck up whose parental connections are keeping her in Starfleet. She is still relegated to "lower decks" and has to do shit jobs. So despite her experience, knowledge snd capabilities she is still an ensign… how does that not fit in with how you see her?<br/><span class="quote">>A cut artery results in massive bloodloss and eventually death,</span><br/>I actually can't remember if the blood was squirting, if there was no squirting blood then no artery was hit. <br/><span class="quote">>which is possible if they don't reach the medical bay in time, which is possible since the ships is large AF.</span><br/>The transporter.<br/><span class="quote">>That's not to mention possible sepsis from uncleaned weapons</span><br/>I don't remember a ST character succumbing to sepsis.<br/><span class="quote">>its not even REFERRED to in the following episode, which makes the entire scene pointless.</span><br/>No, the point was to set up the characters; to see that she is reckless and dangerous, and that he is mild and a pushover. Not everything that happens in the show has to be part of the plot. Remember when Riker was Q for a day yet no one ever said to Riker after "Hey, remember that time you were a god?" because it was about Riker, his character and personality.<br/><span class="quote">>This is bordering on the "made for kids" dismissal.</span><br/>There's a difference between wanting to make a comedy show and set it in Star Trek universe and wanting to make a Star Trek show with humour. I think it is the former and that's why I enjoy it. Last two "proper" Star Treks Picard and Discovery were hot garbage, LD feels like a pool of clean water after walking through shit.<br/><span class="quote">>he does so without outright breaking the rules, or with a good reason</span><br/>WHICH IS IT? You just contradicted yourself.<br/><span class="quote">>He doesn't randomly mock his superiors because "fuck le bureacracy" like some 20th century street punk.</span><br/>Uhhh, you need to watch TNG again. Admirals coming to tell Picard what to do and him going against them is a recurring theme in TNG. Didn't you notice how nearly all admirals are bad? In DS9 it's even more explored cause you have the frontier (DS9) that has to do what they can to survive, and then you have the Federation with rules and regulations that can't really apply. Go watch the early DS9 episodes when the Security Officer comes from Federation, and you have the tension between him and Odo, often Federation vs. Station regulations. Bureaucracy is a hindrance to human life and progress in all of Star Trek, that's the point. Why do you think rule-following Vulcans are the butt of a lot of jokes?<br/><span class="quote">>Yeah I don't know where you pulled that shit out of</span><br/>From watching DS9. Sisko is even told off by his superiors for acting too much like an Emissary, rather than a Starfleet captain. You obviously missed a lot of episodes. <br/><span class="quote">>they could only do that. It has nothing to do with le bureacracy and everything to do with a simple budget issue. </span><br/>Doesn't matter WHY it happened, turboautist, it matters that it did happen. The creators of STLD took it and ran with it for a joke. That's called humour. Maybe you should study that kind of humour next. <br/><span class="quote">>in the EPISODE Lower Decks.</span><br/>Yes, in the same episode they fill the Bajoran ensign's head with shit about duty, and sacrifice, making her volounteer for a suicide mission. The episode ends not with a commendation, but a promotion because of the reduced candidate field (&lt- that's a joke)<br/><span class="quote">>sorry that serving as a crewmember comes with responsibilities that you may accept.</span><br/>Have you seen the episode? The mission (to be escorted by a Cardassian informant into Cardassian space as a Bajoran prisoner so that the informant can go back in) was not part of her duties or her responsibilities, that's why she had to volounteer and Picard says she doesn't have to do it. But she's also training with Worf who's brainwashing her, so she ends up volounteering.<br/><span class="quote">>arguing over definitions and semantics</span><br/>I'm gonna concede that one to your autism, I can't compete there.<br/><span class="quote">>She's not exactly sexy in the conventional sense</span><br/>But she's sexy in an unconventional sense?<br/><span class="quote">>I mentioned memes and pron because the actual show is shite and brings nothing new or intelligent to the table</span><br/>He said, after watching one episode. Would you say the same of TNG after watching the first, African-planet episode? I'm gonna give the show a chance, before I start making conclusions about its entirety.<br/><span class="quote">>while rabidly defending the snarky narcissist of an MC</span><br/>Show me where I have "rabidly defended" the MC. Also, it's an ensemble cast, no one is really the one MC.<br/><span class="quote">>leads me to believe you're projecting and can't stand to see someone talk shit about your "waifu"</span><br/>lol, I don't have "waifus", I don't even watch anime, and I definitely don't imagine TV show characters are real, fuckable people. Concerns me that you'd make the leap there, though.<br/><span class="quote">>You're a salty liberal with no argument and no understanding of Trek.</span><br/>&ltLook mom! I called him a liberal!<br/>And you have an idea of what you want Star Trek to be, no doubt heavily influenced by TNG show and movies, but you clearly haven't seen enough actual Star Trek. You'd probably hate DS9, it's a very different Star Trek to TNG, and in fact throws a lot of Federation ideals out of the window. The very existence of Section 13 throws the idea of the Federation being a do-no-evil utopia out of the window.
<a onclick="highlightReply('8909', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#8909">>>8909</a><br/><span class="quote">>Have you ever seen an episode of Star Trek</span><br/>Yes, have you?<br/>&ltTom Paris<br/>You're not making your case better<br/><span class="quote">>watch DS9</span><br/>Ah yes the show that took Star Trek and decided that it would be a good idea to mix in inane comedy episodes midway through a war and have literal space-magic ripped off from Babylon 5. Those were the worst parts of DS-9 and terrible arguments. <br/><span class="quote">>she's not a captain</span><br/>She's an officer of a ship. With that logic, a junior lieutenant can act like a clown on duty. <br/>&ltnot in any high position <br/>She was DEMOTED from a higher position in the fleet multiple times. <br/><span class="quote">>despite her mom being a captain </span><br/>No, its BECAUSE of that, if they weren't her mom and dad, she'd likely be kicked out after court martial. <br/><span class="quote">>It means she is an undisciplined fuck up </span><br/>You're contradicting your point and supporting mine. <br/><span class="quote">>despite her experience, knowledge snd capabilities</span><br/>Except it makes no sense, her experience makes no sense for someone who behaves like a child, she just "knows things" and has "experience" (so she says). Its a case of nepotism. <br/><span class="quote">>blood</span><br/>There was an audible and visible squirt and the cut is to the bone. I do dissections, that is a fairly debilitating injury. <br/><span class="quote">>The transporter</span><br/>Ah yes the tool that is used in a plot for escaping planets and possibly fatal fuck-up episodes, including but not limited to <br/><span class="quote">>losing your pattern and you're basically gone forever</span><br/><span class="quote">>turning you into a body horror monstrosity that dies a few seconds later (TMP)</span><br/><span class="quote">>teleporting you to a mirror universe where everyone is evil (TOS)</span><br/><span class="quote">>teleporting you out of phase so you're invisible and intangible to everything and everyone (TNG)</span><br/><span class="quote">>creating a perfect copy of you (TNG)</span><br/><span class="quote">>makeing you and another person perform the fusion dance (VOY)</span><br/>Should I go on? <br/><span class="quote">>ST character succumbing to sepsis.</span><br/>Don't be obtuse, Star Trek has numerous diseases that are still uncurable, especially since Lower Decks is chronologically early in Federation history (STO era). Also that Bat'leth is definitely coated in dried blood, now that I look again. <br/><span class="quote">>the point was to set up the characters</span><br/>Yes and when you set them up, you usually have something referring to the literal introduction of them. There isn't even a throw-away line like <br/>- "How can I trust someone who literally slashed open my leg!?" <br/>- "I said I was sorry, how many times are you going to keep bringing it up?!" <br/>Literally that fucking easy, but they don't because continuity is a funny thought in this show outside of the most blatant of shit. <br/><span class="quote">>see that she is reckless and dangerous, and that he is mild and a pushover</span><br/>And how is the former a contradiction of what I said from the start? That is LITERALLY what I stated, the point is there is no backlash. Yes Star Trek medical tech is phenomenal, but it is still a potentially fatal injury yet has NO repercussions at all. Hell she doesn't even look concerned or feel sorry for fucking up past a single scream out of initial panic, not an actual thought, and then she goes right back to being an obnoxious shit-talker. <br/><span class="quote">>when Riker was Q for a day</span><br/><span class="quote">>no one ever said to Riker after "Hey, remember that time you were a god?"</span><br/>But within the actual episode there was consistency. I'm not talking about the leg-slash being mentioned into next episode, but it's literally dismissed and forgotten in a minute. Ridiculous and out of place. We see no indication of time passing or any consequences, which Star Trek usually is consistent with. <br/><span class="quote">>Last two "proper" Star Treks</span><br/>&ltPicard and Discovery<br/>This is why you're either mental or a newfag, Picard and Discovery are exactly NOT proper Star Trek, none of it is consistent with older Star Trek, not even the tonally inconsistent DS9. This is noted by literally every Star Trek fan out there, and has been talked about within this thread as well. Lower Decks is consistent with Picard and Discovery in how they have characters behave, even if the tone isn't edgy; swearing, lax behavior, action-hero bullshit and other rubbish that belongs in a parody like Galaxy Quest (and did it better). A fairly good vid comparing Discovery and Lower Decks: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mO34XjyA9I" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mO34XjyA9I</a> <br/><span class="quote">>LD feels like a pool of clean water after walking through shit</span><br/>Like I said, 'cause cartoons have lower expectations, and the lack of outright adult content taken seriously makes people not think. <br/><span class="quote">>You just contradicted yourself</span><br/>Nope, He uses loopholes to do what is necessary and only defies them openly in exceptional circumstances that permit him to make such decisions. <br/><span class="quote">>nearly all admirals are bad</span><br/>&ltgoes against them<br/>But its HOW he goes about it, whether capturing an admiral breaking the rules or whether it is to unroot a conspiracy or other things which justify his actions, not literal "fugg uthority" for no reason. <br/><span class="quote">>Bureaucracy is a hindrance to human life and progress in all of Star Trek</span><br/>It's also demonstrated to be important and save lives because playing hero doesn't work 90% of the time. Moreover DS9 justified Odo's actions, he wasn't "le rebel teen" but an experienced and professional crewmember. <br/><span class="quote">>Sisko is even told off by his superiors for acting too much like an Emissary, rather than a Starfleet captain</span><br/>Sometimes they're right. DS9 is not a good reference when they themselves are very inconsistent at times, and demonstrate notable fuck ups when not following the rules. Rules aren't there to annoy people, they're there for a reason, and in Star Trek, it generally is a good reason, even if some individual circumstances shown require these rules to be bent. <a onclick="highlightReply('8909', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#8909">>>8909</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('8929', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#8929">>>8929</a><br/>had to fucking rewrite this because the cut-paste function decided to stop working on this blasted lynxchan shit<br/><span class="quote"><br/>>Doesn't matter</span><br/>It does, because it dictated the ability of them to show lower-deck episodes. <br/><span class="quote">>ran with the joke</span><br/>Except its a poor joke. It's the most tired pop-media cliche ever and isn't even funny, especially since the original was supposed to be sad and introspective, not "LOL le bureaucracy bad". <br/><span class="quote">>study humor</span><br/>That's what Kurtzman's writers should do.<br/><span class="quote">>making her volounteer for a suicide mission.</span><br/>That's not how it works. They don't make her do anything given that, as an intelligent adult who understood the situation, she accepted the risks. <br/><span class="quote">>Not part of her duties</span><br/>Have you ever heard of "serving above and beyond expectations". That's what is meant. The acceptance of a higher risk (such as to ones own life) voluntarily because the stakes were much higher than ANY one individual and her personal stakes were also in it as a Bajoran. <br/><span class="quote">>The episode ends not with a commendation</span><br/>You're telling me about missing things lol: <br/><em>Picard makes a note in his log that they have intercepted a Cardassian communication indicating that a Bajoran prisoner was killed in her pod while trying to escape. He then makes a ship wide announcement where he confirms Sito has been lost in the line of duty, describing her as an outstanding Starfleet officer who showed great courage, as well as strength of character and noting that he knows that her death will be deeply felt by everyone who knew her (with Picard himself saddened by her loss). Sito's friends are seen reacting to the news with shock and upset.</em><br/>The promotion is because of the loss and is not seen as something good, caused by something so ironically terrible. This death is set up in the story with the prior discussions about politics, leadership and the promotion decision by the superior officers, important decisions and discussions that are with risk and issues. <br/><span class="quote">>muh promotion</span><br/>Life goes on, that is the harsh truth of the situation<br/><span class="quote">>that's a joke</span><br/>Yes a joke not meant to be laughed at like a fucking idiot, but to be sadly amused by; a human comedy that <br/><span class="quote">>training with Worf </span><br/>&ltwho's brainwashing her<br/>Ok Stirner. You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. The outright lesson of Worf's final test is for Sito to object to the unfair things she is subjected to by a superior officer and thus to get her to realize the unspoken test challenge, that wrong decisions cannot be left to stand regardless of tradition or orders, and that she must make her own decisions. If anything that is the OPPOSITE of brainwashing. And no it isn't hyping her up to face the Cardassians, she doesn't need to be pushed there. See the conversation <a href="https://startrek.blognook.com/category/sito-jaxa/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://startrek.blognook.com/category/sito-jaxa/</a><br/>I also recommend reading: <a href="https://www.tor.com/2013/02/22/star-trek-the-next-generation-lower-decks/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.tor.com/2013/02/22/star-trek-the-next-generation-lower-decks/</a><br/><span class="quote">>sexy in an unconventional sense</span><br/>A CAT woman (furry) is no the typical sexual preference for the majority of the world population. <br/><span class="quote">>after watching one episode</span><br/>&lt*prepares to shit on table* How do you know it's shit, it's not even all out<br/>Also I watched 2 episodes so far and the episode and trailer previews and all sorts of other shit, I;m not going to waste my time with schlock on the offchance some of it might be good, There are plenty of Star Trek episodes I could rewatch that do it much better… like Lower Decks.<br/><span class="quote">>Would you say the same of TNG after watching the first, African-planet episode</span><br/> No, because that episode was actually decent and interesting<br/><span class="quote">>give the show a chance</span><br/>Hey it's your time you're killing<br/><span class="quote">>where I have "rabidly defended" the MC</span><br/>Hyperbole. And you have spent the past 3 posts defending her actions.<br/><span class="quote">>ensemble cast</span><br/>She dominates the poster, the trailers and episode previews, she shut down or talks over all naysayers in her episode appearances and takes up the most screentime and is the focus with Boimler being dragged along like a disobedient dog. and the rest being obviously either suck-ups or plot-crutches. <br/><span class="quote">>I don't have "waifus"</span><br/><span class="quote">>I don't even watch anime</span><br/>It's general chan-speak newfag. <br/><span class="quote">>I definitely don't imagine TV show characters are real, fuckable people. </span><br/>Sure bud<br/><span class="quote">>Concerns me that you'd make the leap there</span><br/>That's the immediate tendency, it's why /aco/ exists, there is no big leap.<br/><span class="quote">>Mom liberal</span><br/>ok kid<br/><span class="quote">>you have an idea of what you want Star Trek to be, no doubt heavily influenced by TNG</span><br/><span class="quote">> you clearly haven't seen enough actual Star Trek</span><br/>&ltTNG isn't real Trek<br/>&ltBut DS9's magic and retcons are<br/>Ok schiz<br/><span class="quote">>existence of Section 13 throws the idea of the Federation being a do-no-evil utopia</span><br/>Noone ever claims its a utopia, read the post being referred to carefully. <a onclick="highlightReply('9938', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#9938">>>9938</a><br/>There has been some real gems in season 5. <br/><br/>What I like about Star Trek is the stories, the situations they are put in, the moral dilemmas, the politics. Deep respect for Picard's character, even if he's a lib. There's a lot of cheesyness, plotholes, and shit science that doesn't make sense, but it is never central to whatever is going on, which is pretty cool. I don't want to say philosophical, but it presents interesting problematics which I enjoy being played out.<br/><br/>That's why shit like time travel is just a quirk, a plot device, not really meant to be taken seriously IMO.
<a onclick="highlightReply('10481', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#10481">>>10481</a><br/>Well, first off, Picard (the show) probably gives him paychecks that rival anything he's ever gotten during his career, including the X-Men franchise. Secondly, he probably does this out of his heart but considering he was apparently involved in the writing process, it shows that he is completely out of stance and considering that every show today has to address the typical political themes he can't really seem to grasp the zeitgeist considering how much of a boomer he is. He probably also thinks the J.J. Abrams reboots and STD are good, well-received shows because that's probably what his agents tell him (as an agent you get a share when the contract is made). <br/><br/>Honestly, I also get the appeal. TNG had a huge budget compared to TOS, but compared with modern shows it feels like an amateur series. It's really seductive to be able to recreate your old show in a serialized format with a GoT tier budget. If TNG is such a loved classic, how amazing would it be if it had a Hollywood budget? That's the thought process of the many writers behind this. <br/><br/>I'm not opposed to a big budget serialized epic for Star Trek, but it needs to be handed over to the right people. It's not hard to make a good Star Trek series, because the world is already so well established that you can basically tap into a pool of unlimited potential. But the brand Star Trek was never owned by people who had its best interest at heart.
Okay, so I watched the first episode of STD, spoilers ahead.<br/><br/>It was pretty boring and the world-building sucked. Basically, Burnham got herself catapulted 1000 years into the future, already this notion sort of destroys the suspension of disbelief. From a technological angle, they barely made any achievements. Warp technology got replaced by the quantum slipstream we saw in that Voyager episode. Oh, and transporters are now portable (but have a 30 sec recharging time which makes them worse than portable transporters during the TNG era). Other than that, no significant changes, aesthetics have just moved towards a more Apple Store based design which is fucking ridiculous. And of course, Burnham has seemingly no problem immediatly being able to use all the technology and weapons. It would have been way more believable if they got her 200 years into future instead of a fucking 1000, what was the point of that? In that episode where Scotty returns in TNG, he already has no clue about how to use stuff and that's just been 70 years. Apparently Burnham can just pick up an interface from 1000 years into the future and be an expert with it (meanwhile Jay-El can't even push a button on a starship anymore after his retirement in Picard). Ship design, as it was an issue with the Picard series already, is practically non-existent, we never get a full shot of any vessel and if we do it's a complete cardboard ship designed by a 14-year old after watching the Star Wars prequels. Again, it has a pretty Star Wars-ish vibe to it with rouge traders, Coruscant-like cities, mercenaries and the chad Burnham immediately hooks up with even has Jedi powers. Burnham also gets on a drug trip that was supposed to be comedic relief but it didn't came over that way because she just isn't endearing enough as a character. She also gets eaten by a gigantic worm, sadly the thing spits her out again. <br/><br/>They moved on from the grimdark shit of the last seasons and seemingly try to be more optimistic, but it's still full of needless action and shaky-camera shots, again, more like Star Wars than Star Trek. Even in the slower, character-focused moments we get a shaky cam. There is also a scene where Burnham kills 4-5 Andorians and Gorns (!) with in single combat with a weapon she never saw before because it's 1000 years more advanced. Like I have no problem with action scenes but this isn't the fucking Expendebles. Federation is gone which was seemingly caused by some apocalyptic event 150 ago and we don't know what empires or factions exist, it all seems to be gone and only city-states and rogue traders exist. Apparently an apocalyptic event destroyed Starfleet that had something to do with the warp drive causing all warp-powered ships to go down (which would imply that every other faction including the Borg or the Romulans would also be reduced to shambles?). I guess we spend the rest of the season trying to find out what really happened with Burnham helping to rebuild the Federation, as there are sprinkled elements of the Federation still active. Discovery is also coming back and based on the trailer we see how it will get equipped with 32nd century tech, what the fuck the point of that is I don't know. It's basically trying to make an aircraft carrier out of a 15th century Spanish galeon.<br/><br/>My prediction: Less outrageous SJW shit, still Burnham-centered but they'll try making her look less of a bitch (but she's still a Mary Sue), there will be more optimism, but overall it's probably gonna be super boring. Oh, and they are bringing the "Empress" back from the mirror universe, saw her kicking some ass in the trailer.
I don't know if this will remain relevant with the financial failure of Lower Decks, however<br/><span class="quote">> Alex Kurtzman Planning a New Star Trek Animated Series</span><br/><span class="quote">> Development on any further Star Trek films appears to have stalled, but the franchise continues to prosper on CBS All Access. Apart from current titles, the network is planning to extend its reach beyond the live-action realm. In a recent interview with The Hollywood Reporter, Alex Kurtzman revealed that another animated Star Trek series is in the works for the streaming service.</span><br/><span class="quote"><br/>> “Our goal is to not only expand the definition of Star Trek and what has qualified as traditional Star Trek, but also to tell stories that are both self-contained in a very short period of time that also connect to the larger picture of what we’re doing, not only in Discovery but in the world building of Trek in general,” Kurtzman said. “And you get to tell these very intimate, emotional stories that are side stories to characters. So you get the benefit of the experience in and of itself but then when you watch Discovery you’ll see that these were all setting up things in the world of season two.”</span><br/><span class="quote"><br/>> Kurtzman didn’t share any specifics about the new cartoon. But when it launches, it will be CBS All Access’ second animated venture after Mike McMahan’s (Rick and Morty) Star Trek: Lower Decks. That series offers a comedic take on the adventures of a Starfleet vessel’s support crew. “[Lower Decks] is totally different from anything we’re doing on any of these other shows and we decided to tell that story and make those people the heroes,” Kurtzman explained. He also indicated that additional animated shows are possible down the line. However, he insists that “each show has to have its own identity.”</span><br/><br/>How utterly delightful<span class="spoiler">, not</span><br/><br/><a href="
https://www.superherohype.com/tv/432069-cbs-all-access-planning-a-new-star-trek-animated-series" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://www.superherohype.com/tv/432069-cbs-all-access-planning-a-new-star-trek-animated-series</a><a onclick="highlightReply('5236', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5236">>>5236</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5203', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5203">>>5203</a> <br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5211', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5211">>>5211</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5201', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5201">>>5201</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5213', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5213">>>5213</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5127', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5127">>>5127</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5123', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5123">>>5123</a><br/>The thing is, aliens likely DO exist. Given the chemical make up of the universe, it’s massive size, the huge variety of physical forces acting in certain places and the existence of hugely various life that we experience ourselves personally, we can say with certainty that it is possible for the universe to produce life, we ourselves the living proof. <br/>The issue is <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox</a><br/>But for that, there are several possibilities. <br/>1) it is possible that we are the first “intelligent” life that has ever evolved. Thus, while aliens are out there, they are not as smart as we are. Why would other life in the universe necessarily have to be intelligent? We may in fact BE the future precursor aliens of our universe that are often told of in science-fiction stories. <br/>2) There are aliens, but they are so far away it is literally physically impossible for them to ever reach us or us them, the physical conditions required for life simply cannot be created in a state that travels fast enough to cover the distance before it dies. This however assumes life is evenly spread and there isn’t some life near enough to us that could possibly do this <br/>3) This is indeed possible, it just hasn’t happened yet. For unknown reasons such as a postulated Prime Directive as in Star Trek. <br/>4) it is possible, it has happened, and for whatever reason they chose not to reveal themselves or we do not have concrete visible proof. <br/>5) it is possible, it is happening, but they have not found us yet. <br/>6) it is possible, it is happening but the CIA have covered it up. <br/><br/>Now I have to tell you lads that in basically every above scenario, bar 1 & 2, that we are simply talking about a matter of time, literally. Unless they choose never to reveal themselves. But you have to think at some point they would, for many different reasons, to exploit us, to help us, out of curiosity. You’d think if they came this far, they’d also be the kind of beings curious enough to come this far, curious, or greedy, if it was greed, and they had the capability, they would take us in a heartbeat. <br/><br/>Basically, the ayylmao clock is ticking, although we could be all dead from climate change by the time they find us, and that looks a lot more likely than us finding them <br/><br/>There's a huge amount about physics we don't know yet. The nature of their existence might just be different from ours, like they're made of dark matter or are Cthulhuesque beings. Whatever they are though, the encounters indicate they are willfully showing themselves to us. That raises the questions of why they care and how they want us to react to the knowledge. That is the subject of debate concerning the Prime Directive -> <br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5387', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5387">>>5387</a> <br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5390', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5390">>>5390</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5282', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5282">>>5282</a> <br/><a onclick="highlightReply('6922', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#6922">>>6922</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('8692', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#8692">>>8692</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5290', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5290">>>5290</a> <br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5375', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5375">>>5375</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('5386', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#5386">>>5386</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('6922', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#6922">>>6922</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('7913', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#7913">>>7913</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('7916', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#7916">>>7916</a> <a onclick="highlightReply('2677', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#2677">>>2677</a><br/>Design has always been problematic on these vessels, due to how hard it is to configurate the inside with the outside.<br/>If some of the older series ships were built accurate to the set blueprints then it was shit anyways. Those were built to 7:8 scale - literally a ship for manlets. Not sure about the other technical blueprints that were created at one point, but they were shit too for other reasons. For instance, when you attempt to reconcile the Enterprise-D model used for the show with deck heights and interior layout, shits fucking fucked. None of it makes any sense and is wildly inconsistent, like the model was built in stages and no care was taken to ensure the windows and decks were placed accurately. A realistically revised Enterprise-D would have a noticeably different exterior window layout all over, but particularly in the "neck" and in saucer where a lot of them are long, awkwardly-placed floor/skylights more then practical windows. <br/><span class="quote">>So how would it look accurately?</span><br/>you'd probably want to start with the bridge/deck 1 or ten forward/deck 10 as reference and work from there. Nearly all the windows in the saucer would be shorter and you'd probably have a lot more of the 'notched' windows like you see at the bottom of the saucer. The neck may or may not be spaced correctly, but aesthetically you've got a lot of weirdly-positioned windows, but that's not strictly a problem. Autists try to 3D model the Enterprise-D complete interiors from time to time and always complain about problems matching the decks to the windows seen the models. They end up having to partially disregard the blueprints or the models or both. <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('10470', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#10470">>>10470</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('11962', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#11962">>>11962</a><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('11975', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#11975">>>11975</a><br/>Time travel was already broken enough a feature of 'Trek' and it's been trivialized outright. <br/><br/><a onclick="highlightReply('11478', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#11478">>>11478</a><br/>As a part-time cameraman it makes me want to take whoever edited the shots and bang their head on a keyboard.
Soooo Space Toilets, how do they work in Star Trek. I think it reverse-replicates the matter. ENT toilets at least still used water to at least move the waste around, I know that Archer had a shower in his quarters so I doubt plumbing was much different. I think you just used a toilet which had replicated water, or some liquid in it, and when it "flushed", it just unreplicated anything in it. I'm not sure if they did anything else, like some sort of system that cleans your ass while you're sitting on the toilet, like the Japanese toilets, but with the same sonic technology as sonic showers. <br/><br/><a href="
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Toilet" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Toilet</a><br/><br/>IRL the current ISS uses NASA, Russian and European tech. The Russian Orbital Segment has its own toilet and water recycler and the US Orbital Segment also had its own toilet and water. The Space Shuttle, as far as I know, mostly stored everything on board, since missions were rarely longer than a week. Soyuz's toilet is the same case, it stores it, but I think liquid can be taken out and fed into the water recycler, while waste is kept inside, and will be burned up when the Soyuz does orbital re-entry. Russian modules have their own water recycler, which I've heard produces better tasting water because it adds minerals. No idea what Dragon 2 and Starliner will do.
Okay I have bitched about STD quite a bit but the third season actually does feel a lot like an improvement. Characters are less snarky and the setting is less grimdark (although still dark but it does have some optimistic moments), and the music has improved a lot, and became one of the key elements to invoke emotion because the characters can't really do that. Burnham still doesn't work for me and Georgiou is a ridiculous character who should just be killed off because she's literally worse than Hitler and comically evil yet works for Starfleet. They're also going soft on the memberberries, although this episode has one particular big one. <span class="spoiler">The fact that they draw the memberberries now from DS9 and VOY might imply that they finally got their heads out of their asses and went beyond "member Spock? Member Enterprise?"</span> <br/><br/>It's super woke though. Last two episodes had a non-binary character and a transwoman. I don't particularly mind it as long as they don't go down the road of a black Mary Sue with Burnham the last seasons. The pacing is also considerably slower - the shaky cam shots and people shouting unintelligible stuff over each over during an action scene is still there but much, much less. A lot of the meat of the show now seems to be putting characters into very emotional confrontations, it has an episodical feel towards it, although it's still fully serialized, they seem to go for a "mission of the week" sort of rhythm embedded in the larger story. However, it still misses the typical moral and philosophical challenges of the old Star Trek, I've seen none so far, besides constant references to Federation values.<br/><br/>Can't say much about the storyline so far, although they set up some eerie mysteries that do sound strange and interesting, <span class="spoiler">like the fact that nobody knows what the "Burn" was, an apocalyptic event, and that strangely everybody knows the same music piece inexplicably, there are also possible implications that they are actually not in the 31st century because some stuff feels sketchy.</span> Problem was in the first two seasons they also gave us some mysteries but were resolved absolutely horribly, with the Red Angel being Burnham herself, that was even predicted by the retards from /strek/ back when 8chan was around. If they manage to not fuck it up, keep the pace and give us a decent resolution, this season might actually be a somewhat decent sci-fi piece - with the three big weaknesses of a) rushed character development, b) problems in regards to the suspension of disbelief with a 1000 year old ship standing their ground and c) some uninspiring aesthetic choices despite STD clearly focusing a lot on aesthetics this season. <br/><br/>It's definitely better than Picard although that's an incredibly low bar. The actress who plays Burnham tries to act her heart out this season but she is just no very well written, feel kinda sad for her.
<a onclick="highlightReply('12559', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#12559">>>12559</a><br/>In regards to season 7, I do appreciate that they ended it with an actual fight, <span class="spoiler">Sisko vs Dukat in the Pah-Wraith cave, and a bittersweet conclusion of both of them "dying"</span>, so it really did pave the way for fully serialized epic shows of our current times up to the end, I just think they could have moved the players into their final positions a bit more elegantly, I don't know anybody who liked this <span class="spoiler">Dukat-Wynn storyline, or liked that Dukat transformed himself into a Bajoran (I thought Marx Alaimo looked badass in that Cardassian make-up, while not being the most imposing/charismatic stature himself without it). I guess it's a somewhat logical conclusion of his ongoing obsession with Bajorans, but from a dramaturgical standpoint it didn't really work.</span> I think overall the <span class="spoiler">increased level of mysticism and literal magic somewhat doesn't fit a Star Trek show, that includes Sisko's transformation into a black Bajoran Jesus.</span> I think there were multiple ways to conclude the show in a better way, the writers had all the cards in their hands (there is even an alternative ending suggesting that <span class="spoiler">the entire Star Trek universe is made up in the mind of a writer locked in an asylum in the 20th century)</span>, and they didn't play it that well. It feels a bit all over place. <br/><br/>The war story works just as good as in season 6 though. My favourite episode is The Siege Of AR-558 in this season, they ramped up the musical score too. It's Star Trek combined with a grimdark epic war drama, but of course it actually works unlike in Kurtzman's nuTrek. The reason the all-out war works so well is because <span class="spoiler">there is no "trigger" to turn off the main villain which they constantly find to defeat the overpowered Borg, but instead it was a dragged-out conflict with all the Alpha Quadrant races uniting, admittedly with a little bit of diplomatic deception, to finally beat the Dominion by fairly outcompeting it (nevermind that divine intervention in S6E6 with the wormhole).</span> The second reason why it feels like such an intense ride is because they spend three seasons to have a slow build-up before shit hits the fan, I like season four and five due to the gloomy feeling of impending doom that puts the Federation on the brink of destruction. Besides the Borg, they've never met an Empire that clearly is superior in might, it was about time the Federation, becoming self-rightious at times, had its comeuppance.<br/><br/>I actually do wish they could remake DS9 with a HBO budget and a better ending. But then again I would realize what people would be in charge of it, so better not.
<a onclick="highlightReply('12560', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#12560">>>12560</a><br/><span class="quote">>I don't know anybody who liked this <span class="spoiler">Dukat-Wynn storyline</span></span><br/>I didn't mind, a bit clunky and rushed, but the idea was well set-up ahead of time, the characters worked and it worked for the characters at that point. Bit schlockey to have literal <span class="spoiler">cursed objects with demon like aliens</span> in them but we've had sillier on star trek. Underwhelmed by the (lack of) celestial combat with the wormhole aliens tho. Could have done more with it. But that was true of most of the show I think, they aimed big, beyond their league, and succeeded, if not perfectly. It's like that one episode of star trek with vulcan baseball team…<br/><span class="quote">>there is no "trigger" to turn off the main villain</span><br/>Yeah it's a damn shame this little trope has escaped the folklore/fantasy realm and metastasized. Very pleased they avoided that, though the supposed back and forth in the war often felt very abrupt. <br/><span class="quote">>I actually do wish they could remake DS9 with a HBO budget and a better ending. </span><br/>They should do a new and competent space opera with a HBO budget, not remake something that probably can't be replicated. Actors/chemistry comes to mind, and the fact that you can't afford to spend another four-five seasons building up to what we know is coming. <br/><br/>As far as new goes the Expanse was good so far but I don't think the setting scales up, frankly. We need something with a different focus and a clean start. And a bit less gloomy overall. Orville could do it if they made a soft reboot in a next seasons, replaced the uniforms and interior decors, but for now it remains a bit too silly and slapdash.
I'm personally betting on the collapse of capitalism around midcentury by my calculations, boss. The rate of profit still has room to fall. Maybe it'll last longer. Hard to say.<br/><br/>But really capitalism is like the Borg. People say the Ferengi are the capitalists but nah, they're just the small merchants and traders wandering around. The petit bourgeois, destined to be assimilated. Capitalism consumes everything, commodifies everything, absorbs everything including whole countries and cultures and ideologies (which is why they have no problem selling you a t-shirt with Che Guevara's picture on it). As long as it smells like money. And then they plug the "drones" into a VR simulator called liberal ideology.<br/><br/>Look at Uber. (Uber of Borg.) They don't make anything. They don't even make a profit. The investors make a profit, but that's because it's just a "vehicle" to recapitalize their money into a firm that just destroys everything else like the Borg. They have destroyed and assimilated the taxi cab companies which had unions for this worker-drone army of "independent contractors" who they can pay less. Now Uber is destroying the entire restaurant sector because Uber Eats "eats" the margins that these restaurants depend on to survive. Uber is not part of the productive economy in that sense, it's part of the financial economy and like a giant vampire or scary space robot thing is just going suck up everything into itself. Really though, it's profitable for the investors specifically and the destruction of the productive economy by Uber and many other companies like that functions as a massive wealth transfer to an unproductive class of parasites, devouring its host.<br/><br/>Indeed, capitalism is heading for a major crisis.<br/><br/><a href="
https://youtu.be/vPzJSBHG4pI" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
https://youtu.be/vPzJSBHG4pI</a><a onclick="highlightReply('12875', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#12875">>>12875</a><br/>True enough, it's hard to say what they were thinking with Neelix - no good angle for comedy, too bland. They should have kept the cardassian spy around to provide acerbic commentary in stead imo. Neelix is just moderately affable and useful without ever really being essential so far. Nonce complaint was mostly in jest. Still, the "age rapidly" excuse only works if you don't think about it too much - you cannot accelerate life experiences, so in that respect the unbalanced aspects of the relationship remain. But you know what, fuck it - trek needs to be weird. That's the point of nearly all the intercultural moral dilemma episodes, and I wouldn't want it any other way. It's what elevates the show, in all its awkward glory.<br/><br/>Only change I would make to the character ranking is maybe move Chakotey down a few pegs, though it's a close call either way. The longer I watch the more it strikes me how atypical the cast of DS9 was compared to voyager and next gen - one was nothing but big personalities, the others mostly lacking them.
<a onclick="highlightReply('13199', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#13199">>>13199</a><br/>The idea behind it is that by that species becoming extinct, a new, more intelligent species may arise. So while you may be saving one species, you might be preventing the appearance of another, also, because no other species will evolve to intelligence if there is a dominant species on the planet already. That's why the Prime Directive is about non-interference, and not about saving/not-saving a civilisation. You don't interfere, and what happens happens.<br/><br/>I think it is liberal to suggest that the act of one person or one ship's crew could significantly alter changes that have been developing for a long time (remember: quantitative change results in qualitative change). At best they can only delay the changes.<br/><br/>Of course, the counter to this claim is that people must be protected at all costs. Prime Directive is easy when it's people vs. nature, then you side with people and problem solved. But what if it's people vs. less developed people? Whose side do you go on then?<br/><br/>Admittedly, I don't remember the details of the episode, but TNG episodes with these kinds of questions are more about starting a debate, rather than moralising or telling you what to think. They present a problem, and because it is a TV show it has to have some sort of resolution, but that doesn't mean your conclusion at the end has to be the same as yours.<br/><br/>What about that Picard's decision not to genocide the Borg? What do you do then? Do you kill a whole species because they are "evil"? No, that would be liberal moralising. You kill them all because their internal organisation and their structure/way of life necessitate destruction of other life. But Picard let's them live… in a very liberal move. Damn, it's like appeasing the fascists. Then the Borg come back and kill a bunch of people.
<a onclick="highlightReply('14701', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#14701">>>14701</a><br/>Outside of Roddenberry's socialistic/left-liberal leanings (there is no way he didn't knew of Posada considering the story of the first contact), the writers on Trek were never socialist. During the TNG/DS9 era the showrunners were even conservatives. It's really a surprise that it turned out the way it did, largely I think because the fan community pressuring them. ST was the first show that actually a dedicated nerdy fanbase that would get really angry if they deviated from specific formulas. <br/><br/>While there is something endearing about late 80s need culture, the current generation in my view rather acts as a fetter for the creative renewal of Star Trek. There are no "trekkies" anymore than stand out from the cool kids, today everybody goes to fucking comic con, LARPs and soyfaces over franchises. Even chads and stacys now go to comic cons. So they don't have this unique relationship anymore between fanbase and writers that works reciprocally, but instead ST became another "franchise" where shows are produced inside the machine that is modern television mostly directed at consoomers. <br/><br/>Just look how many trekkies eat up all this STD shit. They don't care. The Kurtzman detractors are a small disgruntled minority. <br/><span class="quote">>but the first seasons of the old shows sucked too! </span><br/>Yes, but even in those bad season you could see a kernel of potential, and the characters clicked. They also didn't write themselves into a corner like STD (31st century? Wtf) or Picard (Picard is a robot now????), they weaved some threads here and there but they remained flexible until they knew what worked. For example, TNG originally was supposed to have the Ferengi as the main villains but they looked too ridiculous to be taken seriously so they decided for a more menacing, mysterious enemy, which is where the Borg come from.
<a onclick="highlightReply('17088', event);" href="/hobby/res/1857.html#17088">>>17088</a><br/>How exactly is the Borg episode canon-breaking? It ties in well. VOY is far more canon-breaking when it comes to the Borg. It's a good stand-alone episode, it did not feel like fan service. <br/><span class="quote">>I guarantee you nobody who disliked Enterprise followed the Shran arc all the way through or watched season 4, particularly the Kir'Shara arc and the Babel arc. They really tie the show together and put it on par with DS9 as one of my favorite series.</span><br/>I watched the entire series and while Shran is a good character, it's not enough. I'm not a big fan of Vulcan episodes, and ENT was filled to the brim with them, but that may have just been my personal taste (and I guess it makes sense for the 22nd century where the relationship between Vulcans and humans is still evolving). The Xindi arc was a fucking joke, it did absolutely nothing for me. At no point did I feel any emotional investment to care aboutit what's happening to them, it honestly felt more like the first two seasons of VOY where we basically follow a ship behind enemy lines exploring an unknown area of space by itself. <br/><br/>I guess season four works as a season except the finale, but the problem remains that it was still a setup season. DS9 did set up the Dominion War for a long time, but then it erupted in season 6, whereas ENT gets awkwardly wrapped up before the war with the Romulans starts. There is also no main villian like Dukat in DS9 except that one Romulan general nobody cared for. I know that ENT allegedly found their pace and style with the fourth season, but sorry, this was made in the modern era of television, you can not allow yourself to fail around for three fucking seasons like Star Trek tradition and then expect not to be dropped. This isn't the 80s anymore.
>>5004>DS9>Peak Star Trek. Has plenty of high-concept sci-fi, but handled by actual characters, against a backdrop of regional galactic politics that can develop instead of previous shows being almost completely isolated episodes.I will maintain to my dying day that "Duet" is *the* finest episode of television ever filmed.
Plus, DS9 has an episode where a Ferengi earnestly and sincerely quotes Marx. That was a fun scene.
>I second this >>4973 for the order but note that you definitely can skip around TNG, which has some fucking cringeworthy early episodes before they figured out what they were doing with the series.I'd argue it was less "figuring out" and more "waiting for Roddenberry to stop vetoing good ideas". It's no coincidence that the end of his micromanaging due to poor health, and the dramatic increase in script quality, both happened at the same time between seasons 2 and 3. I've often felt like seasons 3 and 4 were of such quality because they were made up of 4 whole seasons worth of good ideas, compressed down into 2.
>>5405>genuinewhat's the difference ?
don't replicators make atomic scale accurate replicas ?
People in the star trek future will still care about rarity, when they haven't used markets and money for centuries ? Capitalists say that their value system is transcendental, on an ideological level however we know that value perception is related to economic structure. If you lived in a society based on a economy that functionally has no scarcity because you can make perfect replicas of everything you could ever need there is no point in perceiving the original of something as different than a perfect copy.
>sentimental reasons.The concept of the original is only valid in our world because we can't make perfect copies, and if we loose an original we lose information, so it's not a sentimentality for us to care about preserving artifacts, but it will be in a future with replicators.
>>5408>don't replicators make atomic scale accurate replicas ?Are you actually autistic? It's possible to recreate any Van Goch painting if you are a crafty artist in the detail, still not gonna be the same.
>People in the star trek future will still care about rarity, when they haven't used markets and money for centuries ? Capitalists say that their value system is transcendental, on an ideological level however we know that value perception is related to economic structure. If you lived in a society based on a economy that functionally has no scarcity because you can make perfect replicas of everything you could ever need there is no point in perceiving the original of something as different than a perfect copy. Fucking lol. Artworks even in capitalism can easily be reproduced, but the art commodity is fundamentally different because it requires the creation by an artist which makes it an absolute monopoly.
>The concept of the original is only valid in our world because we can't make perfect copies, and if we loose an original we lose information, so it's not a sentimentality for us to care about preserving artifacts, but it will be in a future with replicators.We pretty much fucking can make perfect copies (just not with replicators) yet people still appreciate the original. Any smith today can produce you a sword far better in every aspect than an actual sword from the middle ages but the latter is still what's appreciated in collections and museums.
>>5410atomic precision replicators would allow you to copy paste objects like computer files, that's different than just making really accurate replicas. It's like going from analog to digital, it was big deal for data and it will be an even bigger deal when that happens for other objects.
>>5413TNG is better, but DS9 is still good
>>5422 Ah damn I came here to post this. Nice.
>>5399Based and Spess Ket pilled. see earlier thread posts on it.
>>5432The last one put me to sleep, it was full of holes and inconsistencies and the "resolution" to this big bang shit or whatever disabled the warp drive was completely insignificant. Honestly feel sorry for the lead actress, she really tries to act her heart out but her character is so unlikeable and she probably botched her career with this.
>>5428As an episode, it was nice fan service. For it's message, it's a bit too much bleeding heart liberal for me. The problem with DS9 is that they didn't know how to wrap it up in season 7, so they keep making references to how the entire Star Trek universe is actually just in the head of a writer, but went nowhere with it.
In general DS9 had amazing potential to be one of the best shows of all time if it were done with a HBO or Amazon budget and dedicated writers that go for full serialization. Imagine DS9 being executed like The Expanse. They were sadly ahead of its time.
>>5439He was the first Cardassian to be shown on stream, in TNG. It would have been cool if they revealed in DS9 that this guy actually was Dukat and just gave the Federation a fake name.
>>5441Idk, it really does not have another message other than "racism bad". But there even was a Stalin reference in the episode now that I remember it.
>>5443Yep, socialist states never did soemthing on that scale even when they crushed rebellions. To make matters worse, he also did it due to personal honor because he felt betrayed, not even for the cause itself. To lie the Romulans into a war with a false flag was also pretty bad, especially considering that episode aired after it was revealed that the Nayirah testimony that led to the first Iraq War was fake.
The problem with Sisko is that the writers back then didn't know how to write a grey character in television. In one episode he is literally space Jesus with an almost inhuman amount of rightousness and valor (like Picard), and then he does fucked shit like this within a heartbeat. This leaves not a very rounded out impression, but they got the right actor for this, because Brooks comes over as a bit crazy too if you ask me.
>>5445Ever shown on screen*
My fucking god, e-celebery has to rot my brain
>>5449>>5451It's Rick and Morty Zoomr humor that does the tired "cartoon parody (but not really)" trope.
See Embed related
When's a good time to start watching DS9? I'm on season 5 of TNG as of now.
>>5467>piratebayIf your looking for tv shows or movies, use rarbg. L337X also replaced piratebay as the go to general torrent site, piratebay isn't as vetted as L337X is.
>>5468Quality is better when you torrent, also you don't get bombarded with shitty captcha or porn ads as much.
>>5471After season six I think. DS9 starts right after the evacuation of Bajor by the Cardassians.
>Quality is better when you torrent, also you don't get bombarded with shitty captcha or porn ads as much.Yesmovies is always in HD and almost no ads, although I'm not sure if they have Star Trek.
>>5483I loved it and it was genuinely what I expected for an experiment where Star Trek is pushed to the limit. There's a lot of flaws here and there, some reactionary elements I didn't like, but it makes up for it with the high peaks that surpasses TNG at times. It balances out like that. DS9 and TNG should be about the same, with DS9 being marginally better for me at some parts.
However, I got really disappointed at the ending. I've had such high expectations since Sacrifice of Angels, which might possibly be the best climactic episode in the series. I didn't really feel a sense of catharsis as I did with All Good Things or Sacrifice of Angels. Gul Dukat's development after Waltz was literally the most retarded thing I've ever seen. I know a lot of people seem to like the finale of DS9 but I really wanted more. It had a lot of good moments but overall I wish it ended differently.
>>5490"Critics" and viewers do seem to like this show. I have no idea why, it's awful and it's plotlines are neither interesting nor Star Trek-ish. At least with The Last Jedi I thought a lot of people disliked it.
But wanna know something? The new Picard show is worse. There is no way STD can ever reach levels of debacle "ST: Picard" was.
>>5499Lol what ?
No, they don't make space stations out of rebar concrete.
>>5515>The entire series relies on memberberries that's good, I'll have to remember that phrase.
>>5512 probably a retcon
Spoilers ahead.
>Picard is old as shit, yet he still gets hit on by his younger, attractive Romulan maid, who he rejects
>all his new friends, the psychotic nerd chick, the sword guy, the Han Solo knockoff, the women who lived in a trailer, are now big shots in Star Fleet
>Seven of Nine is a cold-blooded mercenary but gets bullied because she is Borg, although she herself has a hawkish anti-Borg rhetoric
>Picard gives a Biden-like speech at Starfleet Academy
>Whoppie Goldberg returns as Guinan, but she doesn't look like in Sister Act but like she just got dragged off The View - the explanation for this is that she made herself older and fatter to fit better into human society (wtf?)
>anomaly of the week happens
>some strange civilization wants to talk to Picard personally
>Spanish Han Solo chainsmokes in the captain's chair (isn't that hazardous?)
>it's the Borg
>they wanna negotiate
>Borg Queen beams on board, looks like Batman
>Borg Queen assimilates the entire fleet by ramming a tentacle in the console
>Picard wakes up in his mansion
>Q appears, makes himself older because otherwise it would be disrespectful
Who writes this shit. This is abysmal
>>5520>They think "he's a robot but has an expiration date" is enough resolution to not bother with it any more.It also implies - which used to be a huge fucking deal in some of the episodes before - that your entire being can be reduced to data that can be implemented in a microchip. You'd think that your mind - the way it is - died because it can not live without the biological brain. It's like uploading the mind of an adult monkey into a toddlers brain (they have about the same neurological capacity), it won't work.
In TNG they had an entire episode where they debated if Data was truly alive. In ST:P, "Jay-L" just uploads his brain to a dying body (wtf?? if you wanna be mortal at least get a young body), no prob.
Well fuck me, I actually kinda liked the second episode of Picard in season 2.
Spoilers ahead
Sure, this story has been a dozen times in Star Trek, somebody changed something in the past, completely screws up the present, and they have to go back in time to fix it. But I prefer it if they just stick to the usual stuff instead of coming up with batshit insane stories like last season. Some weaker plot pots are resuced by the old guard playing off each other, Patrick Stewart, John de Lancie, Alice Kruge. I guess the old automatisms still work. The new cast however still feels disjointed and out of place. But heads up, they might have killed that annoying sword guy who can't act. Also, the fucking Borg Queen is now part of the team. Wtf.
>>5536 (me)
(Spoilers ahead)
I didn't like the third episode at all. Even though the regurgitated plot from the fourth movie is usually it safe bet, they didn't take advantage of it at all.
1. The Borg are already ruined since VOY, but the decision to make the Borg Queen a mixture between the Terminator and Cersei basically renders them comic book villians. Alice Kruge still manages to kill it, but Patrick Stewart can't keep up. Alison Pill is actually a decent actress, and I don't understand the hate she is getting.
2. The woke shit is ridiculous. Like, it#s not even implicit, it's done very lazy. The social critique Star Trek always had is bogged down to platitudes, but hey, they managed to sneak in the term "contradictions" - maybe some Maoists will like it. There is also the implication that an entire hospital in the USA can work basically illegally in one of the biggest cities of the country.
3. Even though it was fast, they managed to implement some anti-vaxx shit. Unless I am mistaken, and that this was unironically supposed to be advocating to get vaccinated, they can still fuck themselves either way. Either you are some MAGA-hat anti-vaxx boomer or some liberal fool with three needles in their twitter handle, both is cancerous.
4. Did the budget got cut? Raffi's tricorder was literally just a Samsung S20.
5. The cliche of a macho hero waking up after being injured (by the way, it's not humanly possible for your skull to not crack after a 5 meter fall on solid concrete) only to be treated by a super hot female doctor who openly hits on you is incredibly sexist and feels totally misplaced in a "woke" show like this.
6. There is literally no way the American military, or the Russian or the Chinese one, would not notice a spaceship crashlanding in the middle of California and then sitting there for days.
>>55411) The Borg Queen is actually played by a woman named Annie Wersching, she does look like the old one though. Great actress. Alison Pill was good too in this one. I think the hate is because the character has been very quirky xD, with a side of murder, up to this point. Stewart is an old man and it feels like it. He did have one notable burst of energy in the 1st or 2nd episode when he dressed down minor Confederation character. That was nice, he didn't seem dead then.
>There is also the implication that an entire hospital in the USA can work basically illegally in one of the biggest cities of the country.Askually this is fine because this is an alternative reality, the one we were introduced to into DS9 when Sisko and friends go back in time. Note the references to "Sanctuary Districs" and "UHC" cards.
>3 Are you talking the offhand mention of "vax chips"? I didn't read it as advocation but trolling conservatives.
5. pic related
6. Yeah, that was retarded. Did they literally land in the forest of Cali?
Anyways I still liked it as of E3 but my standards were beaten down so low from Discovery and the first season of Picard.
>>5522>Seven of Nine is a cold-blooded mercenary but gets bullied because she is Borg, although she herself has a hawkish anti-Borg rhetoricShe's Russian
The Borg are the Russians in this, I can already tell without having seen a second of that gay show.
>>5528Nobody smoked in the originals. Still would have been cool, I'm sure Riker would have been a cigar smoker.
>>5571By sifting through the trash on ffn and I guess looking up recommendations
>>3558 Actually an interesting fanfic series I reaad is called Homo Simian by AReclusiveWriter and it's basically a crossover with Planet of the Apes (mixing in aspects of the original film series and the Tim Burton film) that I thought had been done rather nicely.
Why is this show even called "Picard" he doesn't do anything. He is an absolute bitch who constantly has to be saved by others. But as the main character, everything revolves around him and his mental state, which makes him look like an annoying person.
OG Picard was very altruistic and didn't make things about personal drama, which is what made him a good commander.
>>5568All those liberals today hide their toxic personalities behind dozens of alleged mental illnesses, and that is the target audience this shit is taylored for.
>I've read fanfictions that were more intelligent than Picard S2There are a good dozen fan fictions about the Borg, their origin, their purpose, but of course it's just about feelings.
>>5577I am not sure if Picard is just too old and doesn't really recognize what is happening here, but the interviews I have seen from him he is a bit of a libshit, so he might be in on everything.
>high budget that goes almost entirely to the aging star, leaving the sets and props looking cheapEvery other ST show would have been stunned by such a budget but the way "Picard" manages to spend it is awful. Every episode looks like that there is something really expensive, but then the actual cool stuff people want to see polished looks like it was done on a micro budget. Like that fleet last season in the finale, where they just copy-pasted the same ship model.
>>5586The 2 last shows of the star trek franchise STDiscovery and STPicard are very different from all the previous shows. The old trek displayed a very optimistic version of the future. Humanity had solved all of it's social and economic problems. Even the interactions between people with strong disagreement always remained cordial. Serious conflict in the show came from outside, either from hostile aliens or a hostile environment.
The recent installments of Trek are very dark, and nothing of the optimism remains, People behave more like they do today, than they would in a quasi utopian future basically nobody suffers any serious hardship.
Many people consider Discovery and Picard as generic action scifi, only star trek in ascetics and name.
i kinda agree with thatThe animated series Lower Decks still feels like old star trek (in a good way) and the non-trek franchise show The Orville does too. You could also watch the old trek shows, it's worth it imho. Most old trek is standalone episodes and the story arc is concluded at the end of the episode. So mind the different viewing experience and adjust your expectations. If you can do that you'll probably enjoy it more.
>>5588DS9 broke with the "no conflict" rule and benefitted from it, and also had some grimdark elements. Although tbe conflict they had was always solvable, it was more like getting used to different alien culture that are not in the Federation, but they all stuck together by the end.
In STD and Picard it's not even about learning from strange cultures, but it's all about everyone's feelings. It's individualism and centering the world around your own mental issues. Even Picard, a character liked by everyone as a very altruistic and upstanding person, looks annoying here.
>>5590>>5588>>5586STD was so painful to watch, holy shit.
The production value looked really expensive and well made, but everything else was trash.
>>5599People said the same about Picard S2's first two episodes and now it's regarded as even worse than S1. I'm torn between wanting to give SNW a chance and being extremely wary that they're already doing
>remember Spock>remember Kirkreferences
Second episode of SNW wasn't too great, they didn't explain the mystery box that was the comet. But not a bad episode eother, it felt like average VOY episode. The show also has some pretty great visuals. Actors are mostly on point. I think the chick that plays Uhura is my favorite, even though she looks nothing like OG Uhurua and they gave her another tragic backstory which is what they do for every character I guess, she has an interesting acting style.
From the preview it looks we are getting some Twilight Zone transporter freak accident with low key horror elements. I am looking forward for it.
>>5605Well it's ab episodic show with an overall main story around Pike's vision. The problem with STD and Picard was that they wanted to write a completely serialized space opera, and failed miserably by setting up multiple mystery boxes but didn't what to do with it. Jurati becoming the Borg Queen? Picard becoming a robot? It's like they write themselves into a corner everytime. But you don't have that danger with SNW, I would hope.
>>5616 (me)
Also this reference to lockdowns and shit was an unncessary reference to COVID.
>>5616>>5619They are scientists they would've called it "quarantine protocol" not a "lock-down" that's the word used by prison guards when they have a prison riot.
Lock-down is when security.
Quarantine is when biology.
The reference to COVID would've been slightly less on the nose with the Q-word. But it could've been worse they could have made everybody wear sunglasses as light masks. It's not wrong from them to put that in the episodes, but reference to real-world events should not be literal. What bugs me is that the quarantine didn't work, everybody on the ship got the light virus anyway. That's sending the wrong message, quarantines do work. Once they figured out that it was the special light they should have been able to track all the infected and beam them into a quarantine zone, and have medi-personal in protective gear tend to them. There was a missed opportunity to rise above current politics and have a criticism of an ill prepared society that failed to contain Covid.
Another problem was that the Doctor had no reason to suggest a quarantine after he did not find any biological pathogens. The next logical step would've been to suspect some kind of environmental hazard. At least have somebody re-tech the science-scanner and look for funky particles emanating from the planet or the giant storm cloud.
Star trek has always had energy-life forms so it does make sense for there be a light disease even if that's probably just science fantasy. Chimera antibodies jumping over to other people that's science fantasy as well. Better would've been to make it a retro-virus. There are some scientific speculations about bioengineering the immune system to create ad-hoc retro viruses to fight infections. That would be a cure that can jump to other people. As a scifi writer you don't have to make up pseudo science gobbledygook, there is an neigh infinite trove of scientifically plausible speculations as footnotes in scientific literature already that will fit almost any plot. Maybe somebody needs to aggregate it and make a website with a plot-devise generator for writers.
This episode gave Officer Second In Command the super-powers of super-strength and super-healing. I'm not sure how wise that is. Like overpowered technology, it could create plot-holes in the future, like the crew struggling to overcome adversity that shouldn't be a problem anymore.
>So that last episode of SNW felt weird as fuckIt was an OK episode, the only thing that they fucked up is the framing around augments.
They could have made an argument that star-fleet should not be discriminating on the bases of genetics, because that's a arbitrary criteria and the basis for judgment should be about what a person does, and what principles they uphold.
But they chose to combine an aristocratic superiority-complex with a persecution-complex, the subtext is that BIO-humans are bigoted against GMO-humans out of resentment of their betters, who managed to use biotech for good instead of creating the Overlord Ubermensch that did a eugenics war. Basically Augment-idpol.
What the Captain did was correct, defending his officer because she was one of the good ones is correct, she was defined by her actions, and outlawing the practice of eugenics is correct as well, because what Kahn did was bad. The philosophy of star trek has always been that good people are good because they DO the right thing, and what they ARE, is irrelevant.
The main point in this episode is to rehabilitate genetic engineering. Technology is neutral, good or bad outcomes depend on the purpose and people that wield it. The concept of people terraforming them self to live in different biosphere is interesting as well. Could be a set up for a changeling origin story too.
The planet with the dead civilization, was a warning to not be too eager to change your self to fit the expectations of others. Also the doctor didn't download the updates for the teleporter, and that's bad. It's blunt but true, when you live inside of technology, updates that patch glitches are a matter of life or death.
>>5627They completely subvert the message of the original TOS episode where Kirk refuses to kill the Gorn and it is revealed that they were just thinking that they defend their territory. The monostrosity of the Gorn was a red herring, that no matter how scary and vicious your enemy looks they have their own reasons to act like they do.
The Gorn in SNW were portrayed as the asbolute evil with no room for redemption. This betrays the original humanistic message and establishes a gung-ho logic of "kill or be killed" without ever considering the possibility of negotiations. However, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt to fix this later, as I am sure we will encounter the Gorn again and La'an facing her demons.
>They're still leaning in the TV-trope of tragic character backstories tho.It's also all mental illness they struggle with. This was already an annoying feature in STD and Picard and it makes them look like a bunch of pussies who probably should never have passed an evaluation for Starfleet.
>They are doing ensemble tv show character balancing, the hero from last episode gets rescued by the people she saved in the previous episode. Well that's the problem of a prequel and Pike knowing exactly when his demise will happen, it's hard to feel danger for those characters.
It's much, much better than STD and Picard but since its the same people at the helm who also did the latter two I am remaining hugely sceptical.
>>5640I meant before that episode, allegedly. In SNW there is Uhura, Kirk's brother and Spock on the Enterprise, so it's unlikely that they told Kirk about the Gorn if they ever gonna encounter them face to face. I guess they can always slap the deus ex machina "it's classified" on it like they did with every continuity issue so far.
I'm not an autist who cares about 100% consistent continuity but it still annoys me when the writers don't even try to be consistent. If it's a prequel with all the memberberries you kinda set yourself up claim to keep it straight as much as possible.
The Klingon explanation in Enterprise and DS9 was weak as fuck as well, with the forehead ridges. But at least it showed effort by the writers to straighten it out just a little bit, but NuTrek constantly memory holes things and then start a new show with a supposed blank slate but it never really feels like that.
And I say that as someone who thinks so far that SNW is miles better than STD and Picard. In Discovery they had a chance to just start from scratch, with a new ship, and a new crew, and that the main character isn't the captain but the first officer sounded like a refreshing premise. But then they had to shoehorn in that Spock actually has an hysterical black adopted sister with a gender-bending name who is in a constant identity crisis. Just, why.
However I will give props to the actor who plays Spock, at least in SNW. He really does nail it. Much better than the dude who played him in the JayJay movies. I also like the actress who plays Uhura. Pike also works. I'm unsure about La'an and that first officer lady.
>>5646The catch of the episode was not that the god of the week was a dickhead, but that the Gorn actually was right and the Federation violated their territory. That is a message that we need more of, especially in times like this.
Saw this comment on Reddit (yeah, I know, shut up). Nothing could kill my interest in SNW quicker than seeing it compared to Ted fucking Lasso, one of the smarmiest, most saccharine baby shows ever to darken television.
Classic Trek wasn't dopey or consolatory, it pushed the envelope on diversity, ethics, politics, you name it. Not revolutionary, but it was thoughtful at least. I hate this revisionism that Trek was meant to be a warm happy escapism blanket to take you away from all the dreadful news out there in the real world. It's just as bad as DIS and PIC turning into mindless action movies, just in a different way.
>>5654DIS and PIC
more like
PIS and DIC
>>4970>the captain is a womanizing caricature TBHand it's hilarious
i strongly recommend tos
here's a scene where dr. mccoy smacks a pregnant woman (and was right to do so) but even kirk is like "dude what". you just don't get entertainment like this anymore, it was a different time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y106q11lkiA >>5082maybe some people just want to pick grapes, i dunno man people are weird. in a utopian society even if you didn't need people picking grapes you wouldn't stop them if they wanted to. and some people amongst all the tens or hundreds of billions of us would want to pick grapes so whatever. maybe they're training to be horticultural scientists and they need some time in the field to learn the basics of horticulture. or they're people interested in starting their own grape farms or thinking about it.
>>5104this is from barlowes guide to extraterrestrials. great book. takes famous aliens from classics of science fiction literature and draws them out in a realistic way.
>>5181prime directive is pure collectivist nonsense that utterly rejects the value and struggle of the individual. people living their lives in squalor and shit dying of horrible diseases and unnecessary conflict all while an invincible battleship hovers above them unseen with all the power and capability to ease their suffering in the most enlightened and competent ways possible. but all those billions must suffer in order to make sure the alien culture develops properly which apparently means with literally zero guidance. when they eventually develop warp drive they end up assimilating into the federation monoculture anyways so really what was the fucking point. just awful. the ferengi are right to refer to the prime directive as barbaric and cruel, even though the episode in which they say that they're implied to be wrong, they're not.
>>5182the threshold of warp travel makes sense for this reason: once they develop warp they open themselves up to alien cultures soon after anyways so keeping their culture isolated and unique is no longer possible. so might as well introduce ourselves.
>>5393>It always bothered me how In The Pale Moonlight was resolved. I know it's considered one of the best DS9 episodes, but it's literally Sisko doing an American-style false flag and justifying it to himself in the end.On the one hand, it's a really fascinating episode that's fun to argue over. It has some great acting on the part of Brooks. In some respects it kind of seems like a continuation of the episode The Most Toys where Data resolves in the end to shoot his kidnapper, because he reasons that letting him live would just lead to more pain and suffering later on, then he lies about it when the Enterprise intervenes at the last second.
On the other hand, it definitely does seem to fly in the face of the ethos of Star Trek. Sisko's actions might be justified from a utilitarian standpoint, but it seems like by that point ST had pretty firmly settled into the idea that the ends don't justify the means. Yeah, he was successful in bringing the Romulans into the war on the Federation's side, billions of lives would be saved, billions more would be rescued from the tyranny of the Dominion, but it does do damage to the Federation's credibility as being an advanced society beyond that sort of thing, and makes the idea of Section 31 all the more plausible and firmly insinuates that poison worm into ST's utopian apple.
>>5704>On the other hand, it definitely does seem to fly in the face of the ethos of Star Trek. Sisko's actions might be justified from a utilitarian standpoint, but it seems like by that point ST had pretty firmly settled into the idea that the ends don't justify the means. Yeah, he was successful in bringing the Romulans into the war on the Federation's side, billions of lives would be saved, billions more would be rescued from the tyranny of the Dominion, but it does do damage to the Federation's credibility as being an advanced society beyond that sort of thing, and makes the idea of Section 31 all the more plausible and firmly insinuates that poison worm into ST's utopian apple.I think the most intriguing part is that this gives Star Trek a very "materialist" basis. TNG was set in an era of peace, no major power was vastly superior than the other. Then comes DS9, and the imperialist presence of the Dominion threatens the entire existence of the Federation. As a result, the Federation is forced to make hard decisions that may or may not agree with Starfleet's peaceful, diplomatic mantra. It is easy to be a saint in paradise, as Sisko said. It is not too dissimilar to how entrenched the USSR became under the targeted eyes of the entire world during its conception. It even makes more sense when Sloan said Section 31 was conceived during the Federation's earliest beginnings, possibly an era of turmoil and vulnerability when it *needed* such an organization (I've never watched Enterprise so idk how accurate this is.)
>>5708I haven't seen all of Ent, but I guess they were dealing with some "Temporal Cold War" shit as the super future Federation came into conflict with some other evil time empire, and the Federation sent back an operative to try and keep the timeline intact.
I guess I could see the need for something like Section 31 before the Federation really got going, especially since the Vulcans and Andorrians had their own secret intelligence operations going on. I think that Section 31 not getting resolved in DS9 though leaves some unfortunate implications though, especially when it was revealed that Star Fleet Command and the Federation Council (iirc) were all in on it. It would be one thing if it were something that came into existence because of the Borg or Dominion, but the whole "yeah we've been around since the beginning of the Federation" etc really undermines the whole "we're a more advanced society and we're above that sort of thing" thing.
>>5720How realistic would a secret spy agency in a star trek setting really be ?
Currently a lot of spy agency activity gets found out by regular people having suspicions and investigating with very simple means. Once people get their hands on trek tech, hiding a spy agency might not be feasible anymore.
>>5724I think the biggest thing in Section 31's favor is that no one in the Federation outside of the cliques already in the know at SFC and TFC are actually looking for them. Although it does seem like groups like the Tal Shiar or Obsidian Order should have had
some idea, especially when you have SF goody-goodies like Bashir that blab about them the first chance they get.
>>5756I am by no means a fan of veganism but if there is a way to synthesize meat with such ease, why would you eat animals, there would be no reason other than sadism or a decadent desire for "the real thing".
Measure of a Man was basically a court drama/thriller and court dramas in the 80s were really, really preachy (see A Few Good Man and similar stuff).
>>5760What better way to honor another companion that has shared the journey of life with you than when it has reached the fullness of age, compassionately putting its misery aside, respectfully preparing it, and then making it a part of yourself?
As opposed to, what, just letting an animal go on into decrepitude, then letting it rot in the ground?
It's pretty clear that meals in Star Trek serve more than the simple mechanical purpose of restoring energy and nutrients. Meals are a spiritual activity of communion, and I don't see why that communion shouldn't extend to what's being eaten as well.
>>5785Me neither but it didn't feel like a homage (even if it was meant that way) because it was all serious and grimdark and not at all how The Orville treats Star Trek as an inspiration.
They've escalated things with the Romulans now in the last episode, maybe we got to see a Romulan-Federation war after they cancelled ENT and the looming Romulan-Earth war. But this Gorn stuff is utterly ridiculous, they should have just created a new species instead of clinging on so desperately to the memberberries especially if it's a species we have seen in one TOS episode through a guy in a fursuit that served as a plot device which we have never seen again.
Overall SNW has a lot of issues that need fixing, but it's not outright terrible like STD or Picard.
I'm enjoying this channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/MajorGrinJust hate-comparing the new series with the older ones.
>>58201. Seth MacFarlane is an arch-liberal
2. it's anticommunist propaganda. any mention of M-R pact in Western media will ignore everything that led up to it and act like Stalin and Hitler were best buds. Nobody ever stops to consider the fact that, if Stalin had not invaded Poland at the same time as Hitler, the East half of Poland would have been occupied by nazis, all the way up to the Soviet border.
Excuse the schizo post, I thought of this while on shrooms:
Q omniscience works via uncertainty principle. Q might know everything that will happen in a timeline, but only if he's not in that particular timeline. Being in a timeline and interacting with someone causes it to diverge into a different timeline, but in ways that Q can't predict while being inside that particular timeline. He can't know what timeline he's actually in until he rises "above" it to see where it goes (confer Flatland). If a Q never interferes with the universe, it's boring because they already know what's going to happen; so the only way they can achieve novelty is by fucking with timelines. I guess you could say their omniscience is far-sighted, and they take advantage of that limitation to entertain themselves for an infinite amount of "time". Like, I know if I play roulette that ball can only stop in the slots on the wheel, so theoretically I shouldn't want to play because I already know the outcomes and their probabilities; but when I land 19 red twice in a row, ,even knowing it's statistically possible, I still get excited because I had no idea when it would happen even if I know it WOULD eventually happen.
>>5869Makes sense.
You can't have omniscience and free will at the same time because you will always know what you are going to do. To be able to make choices how to interact with things, you have to at least not be able to know what you are going to do next, and if you don't know that how can you extrapolate what happens next as a consequence of your action? Q fucks with humans because his interference creates a disturbance in the timeline that opens up the possibility for things to happen that he can't know for sure. Watching Picard and the Enterprise from afar is uninteresting because the timeline plays out in a deterministic way from Q's perspective (even if it has infinite branches, he can still see them all play out so it's just more complicated than a linear timeline, still predetermined). If he inserts himself into the timeline things become unpredictable.
>>5877It's decent. It's a bit ripping off Rick and Morty but without the vulgarity. The stories are episodical and are written decently enough. It kept me hooked even though I dislike cartoons. I couldn't even make it through Invincible but everyone told me that this is the best non-Japanese TV show since recently.
However best NuTrek show is the Pike show, by far. Don't go near STD and especially Picard.
>>5886They can't!
May the Prophets and The Sisko guide you!!
>>5899 (me)
Well, they are both incredibly hot.
>>5877As someone who despises Nu-Trek, S1 is bad, S2 is decent, S3 is good.
>However best NuTrek show is the Pike showBest NuTrek is unironically the Orville S3, that is just straight up a new season of TNG and it fucking rocks.
Closest thing to the feel of Deep Space Nine is For All Mankind the Apple show, which is done by the DS9 Showrunner and written by the DS9 writing staff (Just watch everything on 1movieshd anyway)
Has anybody watched Star Trek Lower Decks ?
Can anybody explain who the Pakled are supposed to be, they seem to become the main foe of the show ?
They used to be a weak species that only had tiny ships without warp and relied on trickery to get new tech from more advanced races, but now they have scavenged or looted warp-drive, good weapons and a bunch of other stuff. Their ships are large and powerful now. They also are extremely dumb while somehow being very cunning, and able to jerryrig starships from cross species hardware. ( I guess that's all plug & play ) And their social hierarchies are based on who wears the largest hat or helmet. They have casual revolutions but that only changes who wears the biggest hat. They have melted faces but can apparently survive hard vacuum… while being air breathing beings.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/PakledHere's a few videos about them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv1uhAa_M_Uhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hugb1h8ytt0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkZT9corHDgIs this species intended for symbolism or not? Their story sounds like a budget Klingon without the warrior tendencies; the Klingons received their ships and weaponry through war with an imperialist "outsider". It was through this brief conflict that the Klingons were able to reverse engineer their warpdrive, making them an intergalactic powerhouse by the 14th century Earth time, essentially bypassing the social stages usually associated with getting to warp travel capability that the Prime Directive is meant to prevent.
But for the Pakleds, apparently they don't build anything of their own and they don't really reverse engineer stuff either, they just stick parts of other ships onto theirs, maybe they found super intelligent nanobots glue that makes technology go if you just stick it together without them understanding anything, or they are idiot savants that are really good at creating technology inter-compatibility matrices and nothing else. TNG mentions a capability of programming but it was for a trap. How Pakleds were able to become spacefarers with such limited capacity towards science, is beyond me.
>>5375>Star Wars cgi circus battles LMAO what? Do you mean Disney Star Wars? Because old star wars up until the prequels did exactly that; slow and methodical space sea-battles, although both series had their different approaches
Actually a good analysis is here
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tactics/Naval-Tactics.html >>5223Considering how godawful Terminator Dark Fart was and how bland Abatap 2* was, I have little faith in Cameron anymore. Spielberg's Ready Player One** was just "reference; the movie" with a badly made plot that rips off every "VR" movie before it, like Tron, while pretending to be about "freedom" or some shit. Other films under his production like the Jurassic World series have been pretty lame too, so I have doubts that there would be much difference if either of those 2 made/owned Star Trek properties, rather than Kurtzman. As a side note Kurtzman is also one of the creators of Transformers 2, and CBS in general produces very shoddy series, so is it really a surprise CBS Star Trek sucks? Hollywood is all but dead at this point.
* >>31830 Avatar thread
** >>7701 from the Cyberpunk thread
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